Author Topic: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020  (Read 8524 times)

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Offline SirAndrewD

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2019, 01:59:39 PM »
'Remove kebab'? I really must be getting old, that's new to me too.

The usages both originate from 4chan.  Primarily from their /pol/ and /b/ boards.  They're even more popular on the even more radical 8chan.

Remove Kebab was a battlecry of the Christchurch Shooter, as was Deus Vult.   

They've both had traction on Stormfront as well, but that's bleedover from their usage on /pol/.

4chan prides itself on taking everyday or non-loaded statements and radicalizing them, first as hoaxes, and then they tend to catch on in actual right wing groups.   

The "Ok" sign becoming officially (according to the ADL) a hate symbol is also a 4chan originated phenomenon. 

You guys can find out about the rest.   You have to dig in some really ugly corners of the internet for it.  Keeping on the subject is sure to start getting into R&P.

Offline Lowenstaat

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2019, 03:04:25 PM »
'Remove kebab'? I really must be getting old, that's new to me too.

The usages both originate from 4chan.  Primarily from their /pol/ and /b/ boards.  They're even more popular on the even more radical 8chan.

Remove Kebab was a battlecry of the Christchurch Shooter, as was Deus Vult.   

They've both had traction on Stormfront as well, but that's bleedover from their usage on /pol/.

4chan prides itself on taking everyday or non-loaded statements and radicalizing them, first as hoaxes, and then they tend to catch on in actual right wing groups.   

The "Ok" sign becoming officially (according to the ADL) a hate symbol is also a 4chan originated phenomenon. 

You guys can find out about the rest.   You have to dig in some really ugly corners of the internet for it.  Keeping on the subject is sure to start getting into R&P.

"Keeping on the subject is sure to start getting into R&P."

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Offline Gusington

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2019, 03:49:00 PM »
I've never been more glad to be ignorant of something.
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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2019, 04:21:41 PM »
It's just weird that in a game system where the devs are explicitly providing, and marketing, the ability to do absolutely horrible things for the lolz, including the phrase "Deus Vult" is where they're going to draw the line.

I think Paradox is trying to avoid press backlash threatening their sales, as there is no way they could be actually "enabling" white/European supremacists by including a phase in its historical context in a video game, especially one which is often so implicitly critical of the Crusades and Christendom in general -- the games are clearly a warts-and-all sort of thing (at least)!

Or, perhaps this is their way of getting around possible European Union political correctness problems.


Anyway. That doesn't mean I'm going to skip the game, but I sure understand why gimlet squints are being aimed at them by their customers: their rationale can easily look like the start of instituting a political correctness program, even if that's not really what they're doing.

Edited to add that it doesn't help for the article's author (as quoted in the OP) to be putting an obvious rah-yay PC spin on the choice, gladly suborning a historical detail, and vocally calling for more such adjustments! This attitude may be factoring more into suspicions about what else the Paradox devs may do (or may be required to do).

Quote
That’s refreshing, but in a game set during a time of conflicts fetishised by modern fascists, it’s the tip of the iceberg. I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades, and how they’re handling the representation of non-European cultures, in the weeks to come.

It's not just one phrase to be memory-holed, then, in order to avoid even the slightest suspicion of innuendo of supporting racists.  ::) "Refreshing" == "oh thank something that people who don't want disruptive cultures overrunning Europe, I mean racists, can't use this game to promote their hateful racism {sips soy latte}"

Whereas most of us would be more like, man sucks to live somewhere that you have to be happy to delete a historical phrase to keep the press and government from charging you with terrorism in effect, but you have to do what you can to get by I guess.  :-\
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 04:32:12 PM by JasonPratt »
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Offline CJReich46

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2019, 01:09:10 AM »
I've never been more glad to be ignorant of something.

Ditto.
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Offline Huw the Poo

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2019, 01:59:00 AM »
As a side note, I doubt anybody would even notice that the phrase is missing from CK3 if PDX hadn't announced it.

We agree on this much, at least.  This is what happens when tabloid trash like RPS go on their little crusades.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2019, 08:07:19 AM »
If they hadn't mentioned it, then they couldn't signal their virtue for overtly dropping it.  ::)

I'm willing in principle, as previously noted, to be sympathetic to Pdox for being in a crazy situation not of their making, and trying to get through it without endangering their business. I just don't like the situation.


Meanwhile, seems like this means it's about time for me to finally consider starting a CK2 campaign now that the game is feature complete.  >:D
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

Offline Staggerwing

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2019, 08:50:05 AM »
Maybe you guys can start an R&P thread where you can kick this Veus Volt thing around until the pros and cons are all waving pitchforks and frothing at the mouth.

Then we can get back to discussing gameplay here.
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Offline CJReich46

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2019, 09:07:58 AM »
Maybe you guys can start an R&P thread where you can kick this Veus Volt thing around until the pros and cons are all waving pitchforks and frothing at the mouth.

Then we can get back to discussing gameplay here.

+1 to this.

There is a positive though, this means that CKII's modding community will be able to develop their mods even more so, as there is no longer a concern of future DLC.
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Offline Ian C

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2019, 09:14:01 AM »

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2019, 11:27:37 AM »
I don't have a problem with Prdx leaving something out to avoid controversy.

I always view games as "historicalish" anyway. Games can have some good history lessons. However a game, by nature always presents flawed history. 

If I really want to learn the history, I'll read a bunch of books, some primary sources, and maybe take a course. 

What I really care about in CKIII is that it is a good game that pulls me into its world...with or without Deus Vult.
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Offline al_infierno

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2019, 11:48:18 AM »
It appears that 'Deus Vult' may be the least of Paradox' problems: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/disturbing-information-on-how-paradox-treats-its-employees-and-their-games.1260621/

Wow, those Glassdoor reviews are pretty damning...

EDIT - It looks like the thread got deleted by PDX mods, unsurprisingly.  Here's a link to the glassdoor reviews, for those interested: https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Paradox-Interactive-Reviews-E1008028.htm
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 12:17:23 PM by al_infierno »
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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2019, 12:48:48 PM »
Well yes, I kind of regard this on P'dox's side as leaving off swastikas for European sales of HOI games. It doesn't affect the gameplay; whereas including them would get them into legal trouble and/or hurt their bottom line.

Speaking of mods, I also want to check in on the epic Dark Ages mod ("When the World Stopped Making Sense" or something like that), which was originally designed to segue into the earliest vanilla date, but which got thrown off development track by the release of Holy Fury (and its related non-DLC updates, too.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

Offline Yskonyn

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2019, 12:58:53 PM »
It appears that 'Deus Vult' may be the least of Paradox' problems: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/disturbing-information-on-how-paradox-treats-its-employees-and-their-games.1260621/

Wow, those Glassdoor reviews are pretty damning...

EDIT - It looks like the thread got deleted by PDX mods, unsurprisingly.  Here's a link to the glassdoor reviews, for those interested: https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Paradox-Interactive-Reviews-E1008028.htm

Not to defend Pdox, but the problem with media like glassdoor is that it provides no context. Sure, the people who post there are without doubt writing ‘their truth’, but we also know discontent people are much more likely to write reviews than content people.
Of course, if the things described are in fact problems rooted firmly within the company that is bad news indeed, but I would personally be very careful to use a medium like glassdoor to come to conclusions about a company as a whole.

But we’re digressing.

I am looking forward to CK3 even though I am also in the camp of people who have thrown money at CK2 like there is no tomorrow, but have yet to play a full campaign. :)
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Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2019, 01:14:17 PM »
I am looking forward to CK3 even though I am also in the camp of people who have thrown money at CK2 like there is no tomorrow, but have yet to play a full campaign. :)
The human nature is a weird thing.

How true!

I just plunked down $14 this morning to get some of the CK2 DLC on sale, while I have had the game for years and have never gotten past 2 or 3 rulers.
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