Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]

Started by JasonPratt, April 03, 2013, 10:16:14 AM

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Lunaje


I can do admin work if needed, but only if Jason feels like giving control to someone else; is his game after all, and there are players who admin even if not participating in the action. In any case, I've done admin work in the past, so shouldn't be much of a trouble.

Regarding the shared victory, I'm against it, my position is pretty much what Huw said. But I'm thinking the map will win the game, as its hugeness casts an automatic Rigor Mortis on all the human players, and lets them slowly die of exhaustion as they nations grow bigger and their management duties go through the roof :P.


claes

I'm going out of town for the weekend and since it's been taking me a great deal of time to complete my turns I might stale this next turn, just a fair warning.  I won't have as much time as its been taking me to complete my turns until Monday, so heads up.  I don't mind if you continue on, just letting you know ahead of time.

byrdman57

I'm going to be off the grid this weekend until Sunday evening. My current turn is in, but if the following turn is going to host before Sunday night, I'll need an extension.

JasonPratt

Quote from: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: Jason
I can't recall if our early alliance was posted publicly or not, but I agree it's important not to have secret alliances for this purpose. So let's make a tally.

We never had an alliance. We only have a NAP-3 with borders divided up and we haven't messaged each other for like 2 months. I did say that my relationship to the previous Ulm was very close to becoming an alliance.

I keep a very close eye on people who NAP-3 with me; in fact I rarely accept NAP-3s, especially in a game with a possible diplomatic win condition. At no time did you mention a NAP-3 with me nor mention having one with my predecessor; whereas you did divide up spheres of influence on the map with my predecessor (and negotiated points with me afterward to clarify what you did and did not agree to divide up with my predecessor). You also shared intelligence information with an eye toward encouraging and aiding warfare on other nations. These are not the actions of a mere NAP-3 agreement of chivalrous alert before hostilities (though admittedly there's nothing saying NAP-3 adherents couldn't also do that).

Quote from: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: JasonI'm in an actual SVA with T'ien Chi (where we're teaming up directly to fight joint wars), and I'm in an indeterminate non-aggression pact with you and Eiru, where we share information and maybe help one another as we feel like it but aren't obligated to team up on someone else.

Bold is wrong. I think the last time I messaged you or Eriu was months ago. I only am in one defensive pact, with Ermor.

Bold is literally correct, as you felt like sharing information for waging war on other nations and made no determinate NA limits; Eiru and Ulm aren't kissing but we share info sometimes and don't have explicit NA turn limits. I didn't claim we were in a defensive pact; you've made it clear for some time we aren't in an SVA per se, but you didn't make it clear we were in a NAP-3, which led me to believe we were in a somewhat stronger alliance. I called it an indeterminate non-aggression pact. If you had ever clarified NAP-3 at any time, I would have said NAP-3 (and I would have been regarding you as an enemy to be protecting myself against), as I would want as many other players as possible to know the situation whenever hostilities commenced. (Similarly I grandfathered in my predecessor's NAP-3 with Machaka and honored that publicly and accordingly.)

Quote from: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: JasonI know you had a mutual independence pact with Vanheim (and I think Eiru if I recall correctly, the same pact), which was basically the same thing. Vanheim went AI (partly over the diplomacy thing), so they aren't an issue anymore, but Eriu definitely is.

I have a mutual defense pact with Eriu? This is news to me!

I don't know how I got that idea, but I did qualify with "if I recall correctly". (Also I didn't get the idea it was a mutual defense pact like with Ermor, but only a mutual respect of independence.) I can't find any evidence of it, having gone back through the public and private correspondence, so I'll correct my memory and proceed. Thank you for the clarification. :)

Quote from: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: JasonIf we decide not to break up and fight one another, are we going to team up to fight the eastern nations together, or just kind of sit around developing ourselves? And even if it's the latter, will the eastern nations bloc up, or do any of them feel strong enough to oppose us?

I'm constantly at war. I have been at peace maybe like 8-9 turns in this entire game. First Oceania, then Shinuyama. When you sub'ed in, I encouraged you to continue your war against T'ien Chi or to go to war against Machaka. If you want to sit around and develop your nation, that's up to you, but that is a pretty bland way to play dominions 3.

Well, then it's time to decide who you want to go to war with next, other than poor little now-defunct Shinuyama. Which is the point of publicly sorting out the alliances (and degrees of alliance) now.

Quote from: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 06:12:23 PMWar rages the continent.

Not on this side of the continent, unless "dogpiling an AI Machaka and being careful not to bump each other doing it" counts as war. I know Jotun has no intention of going after Ermor, TC or myself (though not of allying) for at least another month of real time, you aren't raging around anywhere on this side of the continent (nor elsewhere since finishing off one small nation mid-continent hardly counts), Ermor is cleaning up portions of Machaka like the rest of us and putting out indeterminate non-aggression feelers (and a defense alliance with you), TC and I are in an actual SVA. Who's left to be raging war over here?

War might start raging over here, but that's what we're working out.


Going back to the SVA Issue: No one has posted in support of SVA yet. Let's wait and hear back, but unless there are objections let's turn this to a standard 1 nation takes all victory on 7-14-12 12:00 GMT.

I have no objections, I'm good either way. (Well, relatively good, since I'm trying to find someone to pick up for me either way. ;) )
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JasonPratt

I've postponed the game turn until early Monday night Central US time for players out this weekend.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
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JasonPratt

Quote from: Lunaje on July 11, 2013, 08:47:56 PM

I can do admin work if needed, but only if Jason feels like giving control to someone else; is his game after all, and there are players who admin even if not participating in the action. In any case, I've done admin work in the past, so shouldn't be much of a trouble.

I don't mind continuing the admin, and in fact would not want a sub to also take over admin unless the players approved.

However, you seem like a good choice and if a significant number of players approve I'll pass the password along.  :D (Even if I can't get a sub and so continue until I win or am put out, just in case a sub shows up eventually. ;) )

QuoteRegarding the shared victory, I'm against it, my position is pretty much what Huw said. But I'm thinking the map will win the game, as its hugeness casts an automatic Rigor Mortis on all the human players, and lets them slowly die of exhaustion as they nations grow bigger and their management duties go through the roof :P.

There's a limit on this game in any case: the server will automatically declare one player the winner whenever that player holds 14 VPs.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

elitesix

#1086
Jason man, I think you're probably in too many games because you apparently don't remember your messages :/:

Here's a copy of a message in my inbox folder I sent right after you sub'ed in to you, bringing you up to speed on the fact that ulm and I had a NAP-3 on May 7th, 2013:


Online elitesix
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Details of the Atlantis-Ulm Treaty
« Sent to: JasonPratt on: May 07, 2013, 07:32:00 AM » ReplyQuoteDelete
It's probably closer to an alliance than a NAP. Messages are below, but the shorter version:
Treaty Parameters:
-NAP-3
-Ulm Sphere of Influence - Mainland Continent Coastal Area including the area directly north of Oceania's and Atlantis's capital on the mainland;
-Atlantis's Sphere of Influence -South-Southeast of Continent & all ocean provinces;
-Shared Spheres: Islands in the Ocean
-Border delinations: Province 27 and east to be Atlantis (though it's still indie at this point, it was negotiated to be reserved for Atlantis)
-Agreement for Atlantis to help in offensive wars along the sea (I've been providing intel mainly thus far, including a screenshot of the isles area that I'll forward to you)

Trade History:
-Gem Gift of 10 Water Gems at signing of the treaty
-Trade of 24 Water gems for 24 Nature gems

Discussions:
-future item trades
-we were basically on the path to formalizing the relationship as an alliance


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I said, the previous Ulm and I were very close to an alliance, but then you and I did not share such a close relationship, and we're no where close to an alliance at this point. :/

Anyway, it looks like we're on track to go to a 1 nation takes all victory...should be interesting!:) And I'm in support of Lunaje taking the reins!

elitesix

Looks like it may be sometime before anyone off of desura subs in - there is a previous sub request for another game posted before ours that still hasn't been filled.

JasonPratt

#1088
I went through all my messages and didn't find that one, but I do recall it now that I see it.

Considering that you continued immediately along the "closer to alliance than NAP-3" behavior, I must have inferred we were closer to alliance than NAP-3, and so disregarded NAP-3 per se as a limit (i.e. starts with NAP-3 then builds from there, not stays at only NAP-3). That we haven't needed to cooperate on anything recently means we haven't needed to cooperate on anything recently; I certainly never took that to mean we were shifting closer to NAP-3 than alliance. (But then at the time I didn't realize you would only regard something as alliance if you publicly announced it; which is reasonable in itself but contributes to the confusion under the circumstances. Well, that's part of the nifty messiness of the system, just like real life. ;) )

Quote from: elitesix on July 13, 2013, 07:41:49 PM
Looks like it may be sometime before anyone off of desura subs in - there is a previous sub request for another game posted before ours that still hasn't been filled.

Thanks for trying anyway. I don't think anyone has bit at Wargamer either. (I haven't received any email alerts from posts there.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

#1089
As if things weren't tense enough. ;)

KingofScots left on vacation last week and won't be back until the 21st, meaning he probably won't be able to play a turn until the 22nd (at the earliest).

He had thought he would be able to take Dom3 with him on his girlfriend's laptop, but then the day before he left the laptop fried. This put him in a rush to find someone to sub for him, and I was the obvious choice, since we're teaming anyway. I was under strict orders not to start fights with anyone, nor to act in a hostile way toward anyone--or anyone not AI anyway--but to do some infrastructure building along lines he requested and respond to invasions if any. I agreed not to do so as Ulm either, since that would result in both of us being at war.

I've been sending updates on the other issues, but I don't know that he has seen any of them yet. I was hoping he would be able to log into the forum somehow and check in, and so tell me how he wanted to proceed in regard to the proposed dissolution of SVAs, so I was waiting to play his turn as long as possible, rather than doing so sooner, since he left several days before that topic came up.

Unfortunately, Dom3 does not allow me to play two nations in the same game, at least not when one of those nations was created using a different CD key. I was not aware of this until a few minutes ago when I opened TC's turn and was told by the system that my orders for TC last turn were rejected on that ground.

Consequently, until KoS returns or until we find a temporary sub not in this game, I will have to delay the game until next Monday night.


Ubercat, I know you're looking to be out for a week or two at the end of the month; if you've already found a sub, be careful they aren't in Groghammer already! (Presumably someone already put out of GH will be fine, as I was able to run Ulm after being put out when my honored predecessor had to quit for rl reasons.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

elitesix

Just heads up, I will be unavailable for a period of one week from July 24 23:00 GMT to July 31 23:00 GMT.

I will re-request the delay as we get closer to that period of time, but I just wanted to let everyone know. On the upside, barring any unforeseen situations, I won't be needing any other delays after that.

claes

Heh, everybody is getting their summer vacations.  Well, I don't mind the delays at all.  It gives me more time to sp and learn as much as I can, write, and get in some time with other games.

On a related side note, I noticed today that Desura is already selling preorders for Dominions 4 - I assume to keep the roof over illwinter's head as they complete the game.  Quite interesting.  It looks nice.

JasonPratt

Heh; that means we'll be delayed until the first or second week of August, unless Uber can find a sub!  ;D

Keep us updated if things change; hopefully we can at least sneak a turn in between the time KoS gets back and you leave.  :)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Lunaje


Jason,
I feel border line cheated when you say you tried to play both Tien Chi and Ulm last turn. As everybody knows now, the game itself has some sort of protection against situations like this. I understand that you were doing minimal administration duties for Tien Chi, but this takes the two-nations-working-together SVA stuff to a different ground. But the most worrying part is that the rest of the players weren't even informed. And if the game didn't create such limitations ¿would we even know by now? The whole thing could've been run behind the curtains. Mind you, I'm not accusing you of cheating (as you say, you were not aware). But as admin, this sort of situations should -as a minimum- be informed in proper time to the player base. Having access to two nations creates a whole new set of advantages for the player involved that the rest of us simply don't have.



Ubercat

The only candidate I can think of is UndercoverGeek since he's no longer in this game. I'll be gone from the morning of Saturday, July 27th to the night of Saturday, August 3rd. Unless Elitesix is getting a sub too, we may as well just suspend the game for 2-3 weeks. Trying to squeeze in 1 turn in this vacation-less gap and another turn in the next gap, coupled with everyone having to delegate to their subs; more trouble than it's worth.  :-\
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