Arms Trade Tycoon - Tanks

[Gusington]

A lot of Tank Talk lately, of which I totally approve  :bd:

In that vein, take a look at the latest from MicroProse (demo available on Steam):

[steve58]

Looks interesting.  Thanks for the heads up.  O0

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1662210/Arms_Trade_Tycoon_Tanks/

[Gusington]

It does look cool. I could see getting lost in this :)

[Sir Slash]

Might be the fresh, new thing I crave. Might be.  O0

[DetCord]

This has been in dev for a long time now so it's nice to see Microprose giving them some extra funding to get it done.

CoA has done a series of interviews with the devs that features lots of gameplay footage, if you're interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALbqW-gxhcw&t=1m30s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G9B6OKl5QA

EDIT - Fixed the links.

[Gusington]

Thanks. I tried the demo - right now it's pretty limited to the Great Britain campaign. There is also significant time left until release as that's not scheduled until Q2 2023.

[DetCord]

There is also significant time left until release as that's not scheduled until Q2 2023.

That's a long time...

[Destraex]

Looks interesting. But I hate the "arms trade tycoon" name. It definitely gives me selfish evil private industry vibes. Sort of "your weapons are provided by the lowest bidder" sort of vibes. In the high era of the tank, nationalism and care for the troops would have been much more of the focus along with the money, I would hope.

[Destraex]

Tried the demo. Pretty linear stuff as far as I can see. Might be worth a look later on in it's development. You cannot see how your tank goes in a war as of yet that I can see. You cannot try your tank in the trial area yet to see it in action. All the mogul stuff is just management to me and fairly mundane. Because for the most part there is not much to learn in that regard and currently the pay off is not there.

[DetCord]

Looks interesting. But I hate the "arms trade tycoon" name. It definitely gives me selfish evil private industry vibes. Sort of "your weapons are provided by the lowest bidder" sort of vibes. In the high era of the tank, nationalism and care for the troops would have been much more of the focus along with the money, I would hope.

Right, because the arms industry has totally not been predatory and exploitative throughout the industrialized era. Kinda like banking, pharmaceuticals, or corporate finance in general...

When it comes to the "high-era" of the tank, might wanna have a look at Krupp, Henschel, Ford, Pullman-Standard, and the myriad of others when it comes to what they did, how they did it, and the actions these firms took to get their product frontlined. 

[Destraex]

Shades of grey.

[Jarhead0331]

Shades of grey.

Not really.

Read, "War is a Racket" by retired USMC Major General Smedley D. Butler.  He is one of only a handful of US Military services members to have been the recipient of the Medal of Honor...twice.

His experience in his career is summarized as follows:

War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

During his decades of service (1898 - 1931) in the United States Marine Corps, Butler confesses:

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

The book is based on a speech he gave and was published in 1935. I believe you can find a copy online easily for free.

[Gusington]

'Arms of Krupp' too.

[Destraex]

Shades of grey.

Not really.

Read, "War is a Racket" by retired USMC Major General Smedley D. Butler.  He is one of only a handful of US Military services members to have been the recipient of the Medal of Honor...twice.

His experience in his career is summarized as follows:

War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

During his decades of service (1898 - 1931) in the United States Marine Corps, Butler confesses:

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

The book is based on a speech he gave and was published in 1935. I believe you can find a copy online easily for free.

So you don't see any nationalism in that or in any of the books, any care for the countries soldiers lives or the war effort at all? No pride or morals? None?
You cannot find any companies that had more than a passing interest in anything but running rackets? That is just depressing. In peace time I get that but in war time I would have hoped they would get on with the job with so much at stake. A little haggling and trying to corner the market is fine, but good intentions is what I would have expected from at least some manufacturers. Not even a small shade of grey, all deep black huh.

[DetCord]

'Arms of Krupp' too.

Yep, good book.

Krupp, Henschel, MAN AG, and many, many others continued to defraud and siphon millions from the Reich for substandard products they knew were defective or had serious issues. The same goes for the Sherman and Cromwell manufactures and their subsidiaries. They avoided fixing key issues with their vehicles because it was too expensive and because defective or substandard assets means more capital for them with regards to parts and or factory repairs.

Shades of grey.

Not really.

Read, "War is a Racket" by retired USMC Major General Smedley D. Butler.  He is one of only a handful of US Military services members to have been the recipient of the Medal of Honor...twice.

His experience in his career is summarized as follows:

War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

During his decades of service (1898 - 1931) in the United States Marine Corps, Butler confesses:

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

The book is based on a speech he gave and was published in 1935. I believe you can find a copy online easily for free.

So you don't see any nationalism in that or in any of the books, any care for the countries soldiers lives or the war effort at all? No pride or morals? None?
You cannot find any companies that had more than a passing interest in anything but running rackets? That is just depressing. In peace time I get that but in war time I would have hoped they would get on with the job with so much at stake. A little haggling and trying to corner the market is fine, but good intentions is what I would have expected from at least some manufacturers. Not even a small shade of grey, all deep black huh.

Jar's on point here.

It's the antithesis of nationalism. He (Butler) points out, and rightly so, how American foreign policy was dictated by corporate interests and Wall Street. I mean Jesus, America fought a nearly 30 year war to keep Chiquita Banana in business. That's just absurd. Keep in mind that Butler is still celebrated as a Marine Corps hero, though I never heard about any of his essays in boot. Ever. At all. It wasn't until I had found myself on my second deployment to Iraq that his works were circulated amongst the platoon.

This is nothing new, however. The Third Reich protracted it's war-machine towards to the east for slaves, farmland, oil, and molybdenum. The British Empire waged wars over slaves, tea, and opium. Rome waged wars over slaves, marble, port access, and wheat.

The purpose of war is meant to achieve only three objectives:

• A political outcome.
• An economic outcome.
• A combination of the two above aforementioned aspects.

This is the crux of every war since man first picked up a branch, sharpened it into a spear, saw that their neighbor was better off than them, and decided to kill them for what they have.  I have no qualms about this, period. I witnessed this firsthand as a young Marine (2001-2005) and became far more acquainted with it as a Soldier (US Army, 2008-2017). Out of my eight deployments to combats zones, my three Purple Hearts, my seven ARCOM's (three for valor), and my completely non-deserved Bronze Star (absolutely didn't deserve it) I've come to a conclusion. We weren't there to liberate or free anyone. We were there for Textron, Sinopec, Lockheed, BP, Glencore, and many others.

This is not to say I'm not proud. I'm very proud of my troops and the platoons that I lead and that we kept each other alive. I'm proud that we killed those that were trying to kill us while avoiding civilians in the process. I'm proud that we never purposefully targeted anyone that wasn't a threat. I'm proud that we killed or captured HVT's/HVI's that were no shit, an Islamic version of a radical Nazis. But at the end of the day, I still understand why we where there and how it came about.

Naivety doesn't suit you.