I am cross-posting this from the RPS forums:
So I was just browsing Desura today, when lo-and-behold I noticed that the Upcoming tab had a link to a February 20th release pre-order of Conquest of Elysium 3. Now, for those that are not familiar with the name, you MIGHT be familiar with it's more famous older brother, Dominions 3. Both are made by a small-time (one man, I think) development company called Illwinter Games. They used to be connected to Shrapnel (Dominion 3 is still sold there).
Dominions 3 is one of my favorite games of all time, it is an excellent strategy game full of monsters, magic, rival gods, giant armies, and spell-slinging. Something like a cross between Risk and Master of Magic.
Conquest of Elysium was a different line of strategy games by Illwinter, a bit more simple than Dominions 3, focused on smaller playtime (Dominions 3 can take quite some time to play). CoE2 is free, IIRC, so people can download that and try.
The graphics are very retro, but I've always found them strangely pretty. Illwinter is known for using pretty deep mythology as a source for its monsters, and thus the aesthetic is a bit... unique. Here are some pics:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.illwinter.com%2Fcoe3%2Fdracolion.png&hash=c5ee4e86d0a454b1db460631bcabc83a645d063e)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.illwinter.com%2Fcoe3%2Fgreater_demon.png&hash=2aaf53997229bcd902264f18f40a77052c80a499)
And one of the map:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.illwinter.com%2Fcoe3%2Fmap_demon.png&hash=4a09b4456a3291d8a184de58668da1fc7b939ced)
Desura has a video of some of the gameplay:
http://www.desura.com/games/conquest-of-elysium-3/videos (http://www.desura.com/games/conquest-of-elysium-3/videos)
Anyway, I'm in. Of all the games I know, Dominions 3 is the one that has stayed on my hard drives the longest and that I've put the most hours into. The AI for Dominions 3 was pretty brain dead, so I hope CoE3's is better. Thankfully CoE3 is far less expensive than Dominions 3, which was always sold at a premium price.
Wow. And decent graphics. Is shrapnel publishing it?
This one does look interesting. I never committed to purchasing DOM 3, so this should be a serious consideration for me. What's the multiplayer platform?
Quote from: Bison on January 29, 2012, 11:23:02 AM
This one does look interesting. I never committed to purchasing DOM 3, so this should be a serious consideration for me. What's the multiplayer platform?
Dunno but I have a friend at Shrapnel and can find out.
I read this post over on RPS and it inspired me to reinstall Dom3. Previously, I never made it past the tutorial without being distracted and moving on to something else.
Quote from: LongBlade on January 29, 2012, 11:22:39 AM
Wow. And decent graphics. Is shrapnel publishing it?
AFAIK, no. Illwinter has decided to use Desura, and so it looks like they are going the indie self-publish with no physical copy route. I'm not upset by this, although the Dom 2 and 3 manuals provided me a ton of entertainment on trips and such by simply reading the spell and items lists.
QuoteI read this post over on RPS and it inspired me to reinstall Dom3. Previously, I never made it past the tutorial without being distracted and moving on to something else.
I've put 100s of hours into Dom3. The AI is brain dead, but that really isn't a huge deal. CoE, as a series, is far more streamlined and quicker playing that Dominions. You have more focus, smaller maps, and smaller scope for armies. But, from the beta reports, CoE3 still has the level of options you see in Dom3 - do you summon a Great Old One but risk having your city decimated and army eaten if he lashes out at you? Perhaps you want to wield that weapon, but it horror marks your hero, making him more susceptible to attacks from extra-planar horrors? Do you rely on human troops, subject to morale, or summon a horde of undead that will dissipate if the controlling wizard is killed? Great stuff!
QuoteThis one does look interesting. I never committed to purchasing DOM 3, so this should be a serious consideration for me. What's the multiplayer platform?
Dom3 was PBEM. But I think that CoE3 will be hotseat and network only. This seems like an odd choice, given Illwinter's pedigree, but there were some rumblings about a lack of PBEM. That may get patched or added before release.
Excellent news! If CoE3 is more bitesize and easier to assimilate, then I'll be a big fan. Dom3's depth of options, crude graphics and positively arcane UI really had me struggling with the game - and I had to pay a lot of wonga to import it!
Thanks for the heads up SOM, will be looking forward to this one - as a more approachable, easier on the eye version of Dom3.
Quote from: spelk on January 30, 2012, 03:48:58 AM
Excellent news! If CoE3 is more bitesize and easier to assimilate, then I'll be a big fan. Dom3's depth of options, crude graphics and positively arcane UI really had me struggling with the game - and I had to pay a lot of wonga to import it!
Thanks for the heads up SOM, will be looking forward to this one - as a more approachable, easier on the eye version of Dom3.
The video shows a UI that seems a bit more friendly that Dom 3. The graphics are still relatively crude, but I like the retro 2D sprites for the monsters. CoE3 makes the sprites a bit less "jarring" I think, as the combat looks like it is no longer 2D sprites on a 3D battle map (which always seemed like paper cutouts fighting a war).
The release date is ambiguous - saying sometime "before February 20." So it could be any time this coming month and I've heard that it is fairly close to being finished. Once finished I will post a review/impressions.
Well, I surfed Shrapnel's site last night and didn't see a word of it, whereas the dev's website already has links to pre-order it. I think I found my answer.
LB's news gathering and fact finding technique.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.chron.com%2Fcougars%2Ffiles%2Flegacy%2F8%2520ball.gif&hash=40a041f0500ecb3cc3a579e0a3ecae764c39955c)
Quote from: LongBlade on January 30, 2012, 11:47:40 AM
Well, I surfed Shrapnel's site last night and didn't see a word of it, whereas the dev's website already has links to pre-order it. I think I found my answer.
Or... you could have just read my post... ;D
Sometimes it is quicker if you just listen to me. 8)
You still need to learn to be succinct. I still only read 20% of what you post ;)
If you don't fully read the assignment, I can't be blamed for your poor grade.
Loo.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 29, 2012, 11:32:24 AM
I read this post over on RPS and it inspired me to reinstall Dom3. Previously, I never made it past the tutorial without being distracted and moving on to something else.
I wonder if we should try setting up a Grogheads Dom3 game (since it can run so many players at once)...
I just found this really excellent AAR from the late-beta over at the Shrapnel forums (so maybe they are publishing CoE3). Reading this really increased my anticipation for the game!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=48292
Released... but I haven't had enough time to play and formulate an opinion!
I get that graphics aren't important in a game like CoE3...however, I'm somewhat confounded by the combat screen. A black screen with little sprites on it that look like little more than dots? I think Dominions 3 is better than this.
Anyway...I'll wait for your impressions. I do see a lot of positive commentary floating around out there.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 20, 2012, 03:05:21 AM
I get that graphics aren't important in a game like CoE3...however, I'm somewhat confounded by the combat screen. A black screen with little sprites on it that look like little more than dots? I think Dominions 3 is better than this.
Anyway...I'll wait for your impressions. I do see a lot of positive commentary floating around out there.
I sort of like the combat screen. It actually does the same thing as Dom 3 without all the confusion. But Dom 3 had more personality. Also, you can't give "orders" before battle to your units like in Dom 3 - they just fall into front rank, mid rank, back rank categories.
So all this is far less complex than Dom 3.
From the play I got last night, I would say CoE3 is a lot easier to play than Dom 3 - no item creation (but you can find items), no city building/upgrading, no pre-battle orders. That may sound bad, but it also means that the game plays a LOT faster than a game of Dom 3. Also, the AI is noticeably better - it actually puts up quite a bit of a fight.
If you come to CoE3 looking for Dom 4 - then you will be very disappointed. But given that the graphics and UI mechanics have not advanced past Dom 3 (and the CoE 3 UI is far more simple) - there is no real reason to NEED a Dom 4 - Dom 3 remains the top-dog for that sort of gameplay and Illwinter could just as easily sell an AI and race add-on.
So what IS CoE3? Well it plays something like HoMM, mixed with a little bit of Dom 3. And there is a little of an exploration game in there too. Unit counts are far lower than Dom 3, but units are significantly heartier (and you get access to some fairly nasty units pretty early on). The game can also be a challenge, even for surviving attacks from neutral wandering monsters. There is a little feast-or-famine in the random maps, you could start with all sorts of gold and resource generating locations nearby or you could start with a wandering Chimera that blows through your towns.
At first glance the game seems fairly simplistic - you gather troops, you clash with things, you flag places on the map. I'm just now seeing some of the strategic depth, however, as each side has some distinct difference that make them interesting. For instance, playing as the cultists, demonologists, or necromancers - you want to find towns to get sacrifices or hands of glory to summon nasty monsters (as the necromancer you want to find battlefields and graveyards to summon free dead troops). But when you play as the witches, druids, and trolls - you can sort of ignore those places and want to grab stuff like forests and swamps to get your magic resources. As the cultists, for example, those forests are just a nuisance because they take up more movement points.
The recruitment methods can differ as well. When playing Cult, Necro, Demon - you get standard human troops in your citadels. You also tend to get a modest gold income to afford groups of them every few turns. As the necro, you can free-summon dead stuff - so you can have a nice run out of the gate. For the Cultists, you can get free hybrid troops that are nice in coastal towns and you can usually get a deep one or so fairly quickly. Things change dramatically as the Witch - you only have a few troop types, they are very expensive, and your income starts off abysmal. The Witch, however, has a nice spell called "Charm" and she can cast it to gain control of an enemy soldier
permanently. Better yet, I managed to summon a creature that also enslaved enemies as a main attack, so I spent several turns grabbing wandering animals - like deer, boars, bears, moose, etc. to add to my army. That is a way different strategy and made the Witch feel very... witchy... with her reliance on the natural world for troops.
So there is a lot to like here. It isn't nearly as cool and deep as Dom 3, but some of Dom 3's limitations are also not present (at least that I could see). Part of the fun is the exploration aspect - the game gives you very little info on what stuff does until you do it - you might find ancient temples or magic libraries that will add to your abilities.
I also fully expect Illwinter will expand the game with each patch. That is what they did with Dom 3, adding new sites and races for free. I certainly hope they keep that up!
With the recent price drop I'm eyeing this one, albeit warily. I did try the demo a few weeks ago and had the same initial reaction as Jarhead; it seems very simple on the surface and the combat screen is so abstract that it was tough to know why battles went the way they did.
Am I correct in assuming that the game seems much simpler than it really is, until you take the time to get stuck right into it?
I wish they had made a Dom 4 with a more sophisticated combat engine. I hope CoE 3 gets lots of mods. It's quite a high price I feel and really should be at the $10 to $15 mark. Dom 3 is worth the money because it's huge and has oodles of gameplay and options to choice from and things to think about.
The CoE 3 demo felt like a highly cut back Dom 3. If you haven't got Dom 3 I'd say don't bother with CoE 3 save some more money and get Dom 3 instead.
I considered Dom3 but I'm given to understand that it's primarily a multiplayer game?
Quote from: Huw the Poo on May 16, 2012, 10:16:20 AM
I considered Dom3 but I'm given to understand that it's primarily a multiplayer game?
The AI gets slated but most games do. I only play it single player and I love it. Though I'm a relative newbie. It's game mechanics suit me. Also I use the Warhammer Nations mods on a massive map, it actually feels like Warhammer! There was a Warhammer map but the single player version wasn't finished unfortunately.
Quote from: UlrichVonBek on May 16, 2012, 10:40:33 AM
The AI gets slated but most games do.
Heh, true enough. I don't mind poor AI since I totally suck at pretty much any game I play anyway. The only thing I don't like is stuff like the AI players having total view of the map at all times (I'm looking at you, Age of Wonders) or playing by different economic rules.
Oh bloody hell, Huw - Age of Wonders - how I played and played that game, and the expansion to it. Wonderful!
I only just discovered Age of Wonders myself. I have absolutely no idea what I was doing when this series was being released, because I totally missed them even though they're right up my street. I bought Shadow Magic from GoG and I love it, despite my aforementioned gripe about the omniscient AI. It's a truly wonderful game, full of detail, and with a stunning soundtrack to go with it, which GoG lets you download separately - yay! There's so much content that, like Sins of a Solar Empire, I doubt I'll ever get bored of it and I'll just keep going back to it again and again.
I recently picked up COE3, since it's now $10.
Didn't plan on getting it, due to being rather simple and reports of the UI needing more informative windows, but I'm kinda glad I did just for some beer & pretzel turn-based fun.
As it probably did for others, makes me eye Dominions 3 as the more filled-out sibling.
OMG, if you don't own Dominions 3, you need to buy it pronto! Nefaro, you and I share gaming and entertainment styles/tastes, and I can safely say you will enjoy Dominions 3. CoE 3 is fun, but it is like an appetizer compared to Dom 3's full course meal.
I'll second the endorsement of Dom 3. It has the deepest strategy of any game I've ever played, and held my attention longer than any other game ever has.
And Dom3 just popped up on Gamersgate today! :)
Quote from: Tpek on January 16, 2013, 11:41:31 AM
And Dom3 just popped up on Gamersgate today! :)
I just saw it there for $29.95......now that it is there I wonder if it will come up cheaper during their various sales?
Dominions 3 has been going for $29.99 on Desura since last month.
I picked it up a couple days ago. :-*
I've still been addicted to COE3 lately, mainly because I took a bit of a Roguelike outlook on the game. Playing Ironman (no save scumming if I lose anything) has certainly helped.
But the common issue with both COE3 and DOM3 seems to be that the AI has a few problems in singleplayer games. Once you get some mega-stack armies going, it can't figure out how to compose a strong enough army to counter it, even with some extra AI resource bonuses from raising the difficulty setting. Thus far in COE3, it habitually sends smaller, weaker, armies at me in steady droves that I defeat rather handily. Even to the point of sending it's last Commander in one, and losing the game for itself. That is what it reportedly does in DOM3, too. The army size isn't quite as much of the problem as the composition. Even late-game, I see it's still using a lot of it's basic army units from the start of the game when it should have accumulated enough of the specialized currency (depending on 'Class') to have brought out the big monstrous nasties on a regular basis. But it doesn't do that as often as I do. So having more big huge beasties and magic-users in my army is usually a big deciding factor. Since COE3 is a less complicated game, it's AI probably gets more advantage from raising the difficulty (AI cheats) whereas I read that DOM3 has a few other issues, like the AI not being able to research & use the higher level spells very well.
That being said, I can see why the fanbase is there. DOM3 is notably deep, and the unit/nation variety is pretty damn awesome in both. It's the deepest fantasy 'wargame' I recall playing. But I'll probably have to enforce some house rules on myself once I learn the game well enough (at least in DOM3) so that it's more of a challenge in singleplayer.
I played Dom3 steadily for more than a year and can only claim to have learned about 3 factions very well. Not bad in a game with well over 60! When I tried a new one I was pretty lost unless I stuck with it for a good while.
This game needs MP. AI is OK for testing new strategies but that's about it. For those that don't like MP, LEARN to like it. Dom3 is a fantastic MP experience.
Years ago, back when I was fiddling around more with Dom3, I had a theory that one reason the AI had problems was due to the units not being cost-effectively balanced very well: something a human could learn, but which the AI was never taught.
For example, in early age Ermor, at the time I was playing (there may have been further balance tweaks affecting this since then), the only two really cost-effective units were javelin throwers and slingers. Slingers were a bit worse because it was easier to nullify their main attack (which was limited in times it could be used anyway), but the javelin throwers had a very decent short-range missile attack plus respectable armor/defense and melee/attack skills. (The only reason slingers were almost as good a buy were because they were dirt cheap for how much punch they could provide in the first minutes of a fight.)
Sure, Ermor had stronger units--practically every other unit was stronger! But they weren't so much better as to justify the cost increases. One armored knight was definitely better than three javelin throwers, but I could buy ten or more javs for the same cost, and they came with a first strike missile attack at distance.
Investing solely in javs and slingers allowed me to dominate the game when pitted against any other mundane troops. Sure they died fast and had to be replaced often, but I could afford to replace them often, and they did a lot of damage before being splotted (or routing). I started having trouble when running into one of the Norse Giant factions, but the troops they were using were more cost effective than mine!
The AI demonstrably didn't have instructions on looking to calculate cost-effective troop purchasing; or putting it another way, the devs hadn't sufficiently tweaked the costs and strengths so that a high-dollar unit was certainly worth the money (so that anything the computer chooses to buy would be equally cost effective at a basic level).
I just ran into an army full of Earth, Fire, and Water elementals in COE3 so it's not always bad at it. 8)
Quote from: son_of_montfort on January 15, 2013, 04:31:24 PM
OMG, if you don't own Dominions 3, you need to buy it pronto! Nefaro, you and I share gaming and entertainment styles/tastes, and I can safely say you will enjoy Dominions 3. CoE 3 is fun, but it is like an appetizer compared to Dom 3's full course meal.
BTW..
You are absolutely correct, once again, SOM. :)
Give your Ash avatar, I get the picture we have quite a bit in common. I hope you enjoy Dom 3 and, once I actually get some time, we should get some yahoos here to join in a PBEM game of it.
A PBEM game would be nice, sometime. I still have some learning to do but I've read all the essentials.
I don't play pbem very often, myself, as they seem to take forever in most cases. The start and stop of it doesn't help. Too bad all PBEM games don't have something like the Slitherine pbem server setup, huh? ;D
You can count me in, as long as I get to play Mictlan!
Which Era do you guys prefer in Dom3? My first has been middle era but I've not read up on the specific changes between them, other than the differences in the available races and the different levels of fantasy flavoring between them.
Quote from: Ubercat on January 17, 2013, 08:48:53 PM
You can count me in, as long as I get to play Mictlan!
AND MY AXE!{...checking avatar photo}
AND MY FAUX-CHINESE KATANA! 8)
Quote from: Nefaro on January 18, 2013, 06:25:49 PM
Which Era do you guys prefer in Dom3? My first has been middle era but I've not read up on the specific changes between them, other than the differences in the available races and the different levels of fantasy flavoring between them.
I don't recall there being any difference at all between ages except for the differences in the available factions. In fact, a skirmish game can be easily set up (although not so easily that I recall how) with factions from different ages including multiple ages of the same faction. (e.g. Early Ermor, Middle Ermor, Late Ermor, each shifting steadily toward a full-on undead faction, but all playing together on the same map.)
The early age factions tend to be more magic heavy while late age is the least. I have no interest in the late age. I think I like early age Mictlan and the middle age giant faction. (I forget the name. Jotunheim?) Early and mid Pangaea are good too.
Will you be playing the vanilla version in pbem?
Count me in for a PBEM game! I have hosted a few before so I can do it again if needed.
I am nowhere near experienced in Dom3 but I do very much like to play it.
Is it going to be a vanilla game or CBEM ?
I happily play against the AI myself. While the general consensus is that it is crap, my experience is that with some bonusses it poses a pretty good challenge.
Independents are a big factor here in slowing down expansion and giving the AI time to build up iets forces.
But once end game is there, the AI does not seem to know how to use the more advanced troops and magic spells properly. It still poses a challenge though, at least to me.
One thing I found was that when I started playing most people immediately advised me to jump in the MP mayhem. Which I did.
Now, I would advise against it. Play a few singleplayer games first. Get to know the game. Contrary to what may seem the case, I think the AI is more than suited to help you learn to play.
MP can be brutal and many players are very good at using complicated tactics, but you first need a proper understanding of the game. That is hard to do with the short exposure to the game every turn and waiting 24, 36 or more hours to get a turn back and being able to continue with the puzzle.
Once I started to play my own games I immediately began to have more fun.
I have also had a big discussion about starting with or without mods. Some find that you should learn to play with the CBEM. Because that is pretty much the standard for MP.
I dare say learning to play with vanilla first helps you understand the game better because you can now see what CBEM actually changed.
About the ages: magic availability is the biggest change. And factions.
I never played Late and prefer Early.
Yeah.. I can tell that learning all the details is essential since battles are won or lost by the preset commands you give your units, with a heavy emphasis on the spells your casters will use out of the gate. It also looks like creating your custom Pretender God, focusing on that nation's strengths, is a must too but those aren't as glaringly obvious to see as with most other games.
Quote from: Yskonyn on January 19, 2013, 03:59:34 AM
About the ages: magic availability is the biggest change. And factions.
I never played Late and prefer Early.
So my big question about the Age setting: Are Magic Sites less common in the later ones? The kind that you must search for in order to earn magic gems? Or are there extra/more magic "Drain" values on provinces? Things of that nature?
It seems most people here prefer Early or maybe Middle Ages. I suppose I'll start checking out more Early Age ones.
Quote from: Nefaro on January 19, 2013, 09:49:52 AM
So my big question about the Age setting: Are Magic Sites less common in the later ones? The kind that you must search for in order to earn magic gems? Or are there extra/more magic "Drain" values on provinces? Things of that nature?
It seems most people here prefer Early or maybe Middle Ages. I suppose I'll start checking out more Early Age ones.
Yes. And the troops of LA factions drift more towards traditional armies and focus less on bless and casters.
Quote from: Yskonyn on January 19, 2013, 10:43:34 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on January 19, 2013, 09:49:52 AM
So my big question about the Age setting: Are Magic Sites less common in the later ones? The kind that you must search for in order to earn magic gems? Or are there extra/more magic "Drain" values on provinces? Things of that nature?
It seems most people here prefer Early or maybe Middle Ages. I suppose I'll start checking out more Early Age ones.
Yes. And the troops of LA factions drift more towards traditional armies and focus less on bless and casters.
That's largely a factor of the armies themselves however. The characteristics of any map can be tweaked, so it's possible to play with Early factions on a map largely destitute of magic or vice versa. (And of course all factions can really play against one another at any time.)
I've been out of the loop for a while, however, so I don't know what the CBEM mod is.
I found the reference to the 'Age' setting changes, in the manual. It says that the frequency of sites is progressively lower the later the Age (something like 45-40-35) and that can be manually set no matter which Age you play in, anyway. So I guess it's mostly about the flavor of the individual factions generally having less crazy mythos of the ancient kinds, and perhaps proceeding into a bit more of a traditional fantasy lineup in the Late Age.
I see some cause for concern at people playing the sea-dwelling nations. Is that just because the landlubbers have to suit-up (and magic-up) to fight underwater, to get at them? I ask because the two Lovecraftian nations are primarily underwater ones, but didn't know if there are often house rules against them in multi-player. Fhtagn.
;D
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.artfire.com%2Fuploads%2Fproduct%2F7%2F117%2F57117%2F3557117%2F3557117%2Flarge%2Fwhat_the_fhtagn_-_cthulhu_vinyl_decal_d198c0f5.jpg&hash=d1e323d766675befe25e3f851e0afdd81cfe35a2)
From my experience most newbie-friendly game exclude players from taking the underwater nations.
It is indeed a bit hard to combat them, but so is the case for them to land factions.
One more thing on Late vs. Early - the Late age has stronger units in the sense that they are better armed and armored. Early age units are more magical/holy and have more reliance on enchantments and magical support. Also, the late age units tend to be more humans versus monster.
I actually like playing as the late-age Empire (I think they are the undead faction), but they tend to be a bit overpowered against an AI that does not know how to use holy spells to banish them.
I am a big fan of the devil-led Abysia.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on January 20, 2013, 12:12:19 PM
I am a big fan of the devil-led Abysia.
That one looks like fun. I'm also planning on checking out the C'tis (cl**oris? I AM THE C'TIS COMMANDER!) and the Vanheim giants next.
I am a big fan of the tiny winged folk of Caelum but they are darn hard to play!
Quote from: Yskonyn on January 20, 2013, 02:04:52 PM
I am a big fan of the tiny winged folk of Caelum but they are darn hard to play!
Given they literally wear ice armor that turns to water in hot realms, I would say so!
C'tis is a lot of fun (and not just for the naughty connection you made). They can raise the dead, have giant snakes, and spread their helpful-to-them-harmful-to-others realm outwards. Just remember to create a god with a high realm power score for them.
The Jotun are amazing and get VERY darn hard to kill by the end of the game. You let them burst out and produce large armies of their big guys and you have a problem.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on January 20, 2013, 02:16:21 PM
The Jotun are amazing and get VERY darn hard to kill by the end of the game. You let them burst out and produce large armies of their big guys and you have a problem.
I've heard the Jotun are pretty cool but I've been curious about the other nordic-inspired giants, the Vanir (aka Vanheim). The ones with the innate Glamour and Mirror Image abilities.. perhaps a bit more magical in nature? All tricksy 'n sheet. :D
The Vanheim are not giants, per se. They are like the Norse Gods. In fact, I think the Vanhir were some of the Norse gods. They have this ability, it is pretty awesome, to avoid hits. They don't have the stopping force of the Jotun, but are cheaper. They also have stealthy agent units, which are nice.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on January 20, 2013, 09:07:39 PM
The Vanheim are not giants, per se. They are like the Norse Gods. In fact, I think the Vanhir were some of the Norse gods. They have this ability, it is pretty awesome, to avoid hits. They don't have the stopping force of the Jotun, but are cheaper. They also have stealthy agent units, which are nice.
Yeah, you're right. I think they're supposed to be taller than men, but not giants. Their Mirror Image ability is what helps them avoid some hits, I suppose, if it's anything like the spell of the same name.
I also thought they might be interesting because they also dabble in blood magic, along with the more spellcasting focus than the big bruisers, and in (some?) Ages you get Valkyries which, if I understand correctly, help quicken your sieges (and help attack an enemies back row more quickly?) due to being a unit with Flying.
******
Also-
What is a good Nation-to-Province # ratio for single player games? I used a 30-to-1 ratio when adding nations to my modest 150 province map that I first started playing on, but I'm beginning to think that perhaps the AI may do better with 25 or even 20 per. Or more? Also.. I read that turning on 'Partial Independents' helps the AI focus more on building it's nation units as opposed to some of the crappy indie ones they find, along with turning on Team status so the AIs don't attack each other (may save this last for later when I'm ready to be ganged up on). Any other suggestions for single-player map creation and AI setup?
Is anyone else hankering after some multiplayer PBEM now?
Quote from: NefaroI AM THE C'TIS COMMANDER!
With... a giant snake.
(And in the game! ;D )
Right that does it - at the end of the month I'm going to see if I can pick Dom3 up. :D
In the meantime, I've finally started playing CoE3 properly and I think I love it! The classes seem to play really differently and it's clear that a lot of time has been spent designing them. Coupled with the roguelike nature of the game, I think CoE3 really has legs. I'm no longer put off by the ridiculously abstract combat screen; although more graphics would be nice, it does give you all the info you need. Especially now that I've discovered that battles can be paused and the message log can be scrolled!
So far the two classes I've put the most time into have been the barbarian and the necromancer. I love that it's so easy to get units as the necromancer but it's balanced by your commanders being insane half the time. I also like the barbarian because recruitment is quite cheap but still yields decent units. It's going to take ages to explore every class. I think I'll go for the witch next.
One thing that bothers me about the two games, and most notably COE3, is how the brightness fades in & out especially on the screens with a black background (and some ghost-like monsters in the army who have the fade effect).
While the game has an option to turn the Fade Effect off, it doesn't seem to work at all. I still get a steady darkening for a couple seconds, in CoE3, when checking info on my armies and the units start blending into the dark background more - screws with my eyes. And, again, the setting does nothing to stop that as I expect it to.
Still some fun games. I've not been gaming much lately, however, so I haven't finished exploring the possibilities in Dom3 (still quite noobish). CoE3 is one of those light games I can pick up without requiring too much time or concentration investment.
I can't put CoE3 down. I had to force myself to switch it off this morning before going to work. I never play games before going to work!
I've started a new game with an ally against a team of two enemies. I'm the barbarians again. I'm learning how important it is to capture some structures and consolidate your position early on, lest you risk being steamrolled by the wandering independents and never having enough gold to buy troops. Maybe I should put off buying Dom3 after all!
I finally won my first game! I quit playing with allies because they're back-stabbing bastards. Any time I lost an unguarded town to a roving band of independent creatures, my "ally" would be straight in there capturing it for himself. This happened several times until I had barely any holdings left, and obviously no income, crippling me.
So I started again as a necromancer, which is quite a frustrating class to play because your commanders spend so much time being insane and therefore completely unable to do anything. Time and again I watched as the enemy conquered all the holdings around me while I was powerless to react.
Eventually, though, I managed to level up my main commander, after which he started going insane a lot less often. Necromancers really start to build up momentum when you start winning battles; after each fight, simply "raise dead" and your army size is instantly doubled. The undead armies are laughably weak, but when you have 500 or 600 of them in a stack they can overwhelm all but the strongest opponents:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcloud.steampowered.com%2Fugc%2F559840308567868635%2FCC2EBAE6D07D783B8A4D845C03F3112B5449E949%2F&hash=c6c03a34071ed44d873f7a8c978dbc1e4db72276)
Eventually my main necromancer became a Demilich, whose traits took me completely by surprise. For the low price of two hands of glory, he can move anywhere...at least in theory. It isn't very accurate and he landed in battles more often than not. Also he cannot take any other units with him when he does this. However, being more or less immortal and impervious to non-magical attacks, he was singlehandedly responsible for a few victories, even against a couple of hundred units. He was also capable of raising enormous amounts of undead, which I'd bring another hero along to collect. Thus my main force became almost a thousand units large and was capable of mopping up the enemy resistance.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcloud-2.steampowered.com%2Fugc%2F559840308576119235%2FCB20BE4F63A5B6E706C2ACA5E4BA6B4A53E883EF%2F&hash=bb90d9233695c9bd38806fde54feab42e32df108)
Huw, the undead races in both CoE3 and Dom3 are always like steamrollers. You start off looking for graveyards or battlefields to raise huge numbers of zombies and longdeads, while summoning the occasional wight or other nasty undead leader. Once you do that, you basically lumber over the map until you control it all. That is... unless you have a side playing a Holy-heavy race. Then they start banishing all of your units en masse and are able to scorch your leaders mightily. That is why is is always nice to have human agents in at least one backup army when playing as the undead.
Yeah, I did notice that weakness, so in the end game my main stack had a couple of hundred archers as well. Archers are very good units; the obvious ability to shoot from the rear rank is complemented nicely by a sword attack which is just as powerful, so they can put up a good fight even when the mid and front ranks are gone. Cheap, too.
You're right about the undead leaders too. I had a wraith who singlehandedly defended half a dozen holdings from independents in the late game, and that Ziz you can see in my first screenshot wreaked havoc among the enemy ranks in many a battle. Those major summoning rituals are splendid!
I'm going to start a game as the troll king next. Oh god I can't wait to get Dominions 3. Hopefully I'll be able to pick it up on pay day.
How is the single player experience? I occasionally play multiplayer, however the bulk is single player because of time..... just wondering how this stacks up for a single player user.
Thanks
PE
Well, until I'm more accomplished I've been playing at low difficulty levels and the AI is definitely no genius; not doing anything particularly stupid but not being very aggressive either. I do intend to ramp the difficulty up soon though. As for the rest of the experience, it's fine - the AI takes no time at all to decide which moves to play and everything proceeds very smoothly, plus there's no diplomacy to worry about. I think it's a great single player experience for a number of reasons...it's very quick to play, it's extremely replayable, plenty of starting options (you can choose AI's classes as well as your own, plus the rough geography, teams etc).
If time is your chief concern, CoE3 will suit you fine. You can get a lot done in little time because it's so easy and quick to play. It loads in a couple of seconds and there's no wait to create worlds or anything. Battle speed can be varied or resolved instantly.
But hey, don't take my word for it - there's a demo available on Desura and probably Steam as well. :)
Desura page (http://www.desura.com/games/conquest-of-elysium-3)
Steam page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/211900/)
Gamersgate page (http://www.gamersgate.co.uk/DD-COE3/conquest-of-elysium-3)
I had considered picking up Dominions 3 instead of this, however I heard the AI in D3 was really weak.....
PE
Well, as great as CoE is (and it really is), the reason I also want Dominions is for the times I want to play something more involved and complex. CoE can seem like strategy-lite, since most of the time you're just moving two or three stacks around on the map. There's no building, diplomacy, or anything else. It lends itself to very easy play, and is perfect for the time-poor. I really enjoy playing it, but on Friday and Saturday nights I want something a bit...heavier, and if Dom is basically CoE with a lot more meat, then I want it too.
As for AI...I'm not the world's greatest strategist, and I'm willing to bet that I won't be able to beat the Dom AI on its harder difficulty levels. I could be wrong of course, but I doubt it. I've seen plenty of Dom players say that the AI's reputation is unfair.
Quote from: PanzersEast on February 09, 2013, 06:03:54 PM
I had considered picking up Dominions 3 instead of this, however I heard the AI in D3 was really weak.....
PE
The AI is good enough to test new strategies on before taking them to MP. And MP in Dom3 is the best gaming experience I've ever had.
Quote from: Ubercat on February 09, 2013, 07:06:40 PM
Quote from: PanzersEast on February 09, 2013, 06:03:54 PM
I had considered picking up Dominions 3 instead of this, however I heard the AI in D3 was really weak.....
PE
The AI is good enough to test new strategies on before taking them to MP. And MP in Dom3 is the best gaming experience I've ever had.
+1
Just won my second game, this time with the troll king. It's a satisfying class to play; your recruitable units are almost as bad as the undead, but your hero units are extremely powerful. I had used them on their own to conquer half the map before I even knew where my opponent was. I did eventually lose one to a vampire lord late in the game, but by that time I had a ridiculous gold income and numerous recruitment centres, so I was able to raise armies in their hundreds. Completely steamrolled the enemy.
When I quit I thought I was probably done with the game for a while...but then made the mistake of taking a look at the class list and realising I've only scratched the surface. I think I'll start a new one tomorrow. :D
After it became too easy, I kept inching the difficulty up and started putting the AI sides into teams so they didn't kill each other off so quickly in the beginning. That can definitely raise the difficulty.
I suppose that once I've settled into Dominions 3, it looks like I'll have to use a mix of difficulty, teams and/or some small house rules to keep the single player tough. It can be done.
If you think there are a lot of classes/factions to play in COE3, you'll be surprised when you see how many Dom3 has. ;D
Quote from: Nefaro on February 10, 2013, 06:29:27 PM
If you think there are a lot of classes/factions to play in COE3, you'll be surprised when you see how many Dom3 has. ;D
Yeah, I've read that there are around 20 per age, with three ages. I love it when strategy games are so amazingly diverse in their content that they sometimes seem like they don't even have any rules. I can't wait to get Dom 3!
My favorite class so far has been the enchanter. I love making the golems and until you can make very many of them necrotods actually convert opponents to your side which can build quite a varied army.
Sounds cool - I think I'll play the enchanter on my next game. :)
Quote from: Yskonyn on February 10, 2013, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: Ubercat on February 09, 2013, 07:06:40 PM
Quote from: PanzersEast on February 09, 2013, 06:03:54 PM
I had considered picking up Dominions 3 instead of this, however I heard the AI in D3 was really weak.....
PE
The AI is good enough to test new strategies on before taking them to MP. And MP in Dom3 is the best gaming experience I've ever had.
+1
It also helps that Dom3 maps can be utterly huge and yet filled with a ton of opposing factions. One AI may not put up all that much of a fight, but +20ish AI opponents is a tougher proposition.
Naturally, if those were all competent human players (which is technically possible though improbable due to scheduling even for PBEM), it would be even scarier. But still.
Four or so years ago I took part in a vast PBEM game that had all 3 ages modded together. I don't remember exactly how many players there were, but with close to 70 available factions, I'd guess around 50 people.
I played Ctis, from the age with the poisonous miasma ability, and somewhere on the map was at least one other Ctis player from a different age. Not surprisingly, we were no where near each other.
I seem to recall it's possible without even modding the game per se to play all factions on the same randomly generated map. But it's been a few years.
How'd that MP game work out for everyone, btw?
I don't remember how it ended. I think I ended up setting myself to AI, though I don't recall why. I may have been close to being wiped out, or else some RL issue interfered.
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 12, 2013, 11:54:39 AM
I seem to recall it's possible without even modding the game per se to play all factions on the same randomly generated map. But it's been a few years.
How'd that MP game work out for everyone, btw?
All factions from all ages simultaneously does need a mod.
I've been too scared to use it, though :) You're a brave individual Uber! :)
My MP experience is about 3 self-organised games via the Shrapnel forums. Newbie centered and I always took EA or MA Caelum.
I really enjoy the extensive diplomacy with mutiplayer games. It really adds to the gaming experience a lot.
The one thing I struggle with, still, is that the advice given by many - or the guides - talk about mechanics as if you are completely familiar with the game. They are often hard to follow for new players.
Also, with lots of people being quite vocal about HOW one should play a given faction it sometimes makes it hard to make up your own mind.
I've found playing SP actually heightens my fun factor with Dom 3 as I am able to experiment at my own pace and actually learn what does what properly.
MP is much more engaging, though, that is for sure.
Quote from: Yskonyn on February 12, 2013, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 12, 2013, 11:54:39 AM
I seem to recall it's possible without even modding the game per se to play all factions on the same randomly generated map. But it's been a few years.
How'd that MP game work out for everyone, btw?
All factions from all ages simultaneously does need a mod.
I've been too scared to use it, though :) You're a brave individual Uber! :)
I've not bothered mixing the three ages together because magic is so damn powerful. The earlier a civ's Age, the more magic-using troops the tend to have. So it could easily be imbalanced, despite later age troops having (generally) heavier armor.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/211900/?snr=1_614_615_linuxrelease_linuxrelease
Game is now on Steam for only 2.5$, due to the Linux sale :)
Quote from: Tpek on February 14, 2013, 01:10:29 PM
http://store.steampowered.com/app/211900/?snr=1_614_615_linuxrelease_linuxrelease
Game is now on Steam for only 2.5$, due to the Linux sale :)
Thanks! I'm definately buying another game I don't have time to play!
Aargh!
Quote from: airboy on February 14, 2013, 01:15:43 PM
Thanks! I'm definately buying another game I don't have time to play!
Aargh!
No problem - CoE3 lends itself nicely to bite-sized chunks of gaming. You can play it alongside whatever else, or just use it to fill a spare 10-15 minutes. :)
Just got it on Steam for $2.49. Haven't played yet.....quick question, is their a tutorial or not?
Quote from: Rayfer on February 14, 2013, 04:17:22 PM
Just got it on Steam for $2.49. Haven't played yet.....quick question, is their a tutorial or not?
Nope, but I'll be happy to answer any questions. At the very least, read the description of your first chosen class in the manual; it will give you an idea of how to play that class. Don't forget to transfer units to whichever hero you're sending out. Don't forget that a single click is all that's required to move, and there's no taking it back! Oh, and always,
always right-click a square containing enemies before moving into it - sometimes even the smallest village apparently defended by a tiny number of units can actually be host to some powerful units that will wipe you out.
You will die several times in quick succession as you're getting to grips with the game, but don't let that discourage you as it's all part of the learning process. Stick with one class for a few games and you'll get the hang of it.
Quote from: airboy on February 14, 2013, 01:15:43 PM
Quote from: Tpek on February 14, 2013, 01:10:29 PM
http://store.steampowered.com/app/211900/?snr=1_614_615_linuxrelease_linuxrelease
Game is now on Steam for only 2.5$, due to the Linux sale :)
Thanks! I'm definately buying another game I don't have time to play!
Aargh!
ditto...maybe....gotta week to mull it over.
One more tip: on some screens you can hit ? to get a list of keyboard commands. Particularly useful in the transfer units screen.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 14, 2013, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on February 14, 2013, 04:17:22 PM
Just got it on Steam for $2.49. Haven't played yet.....quick question, is their a tutorial or not?
Nope, but I'll be happy to answer any questions. At the very least, read the description of your first chosen class in the manual; it will give you an idea of how to play that class. Don't forget to transfer units to whichever hero you're sending out. Don't forget that a single click is all that's required to move, and there's no taking it back! Oh, and always, always right-click a square containing enemies before moving into it - sometimes even the smallest village apparently defended by a tiny number of units can actually be host to some powerful units that will wipe you out.
You will die several times in quick succession as you're getting to grips with the game, but don't let that discourage you as it's all part of the learning process. Stick with one class for a few games and you'll get the hang of it.
Thanks....this is very helpful.
I buy it. And Ruse too. I was never interested in Ruse but i didn't need the two bux.
Quote from: Rayfer on February 14, 2013, 04:17:22 PM
Just got it on Steam for $2.49. Haven't played yet.....quick question, is their a tutorial or not?
My advice (as posted previously on Steam) :
My best advice would be - read the manual.
However you don't have to read it all.
To get you started I would recommend reading Section 3 (The Interface) and the single page of Section 9 (Classes) that relates to the class you have chosen to play. In total that will be no more than a dozen pages to read.
Then read the rest at your leisure to get a bit more of an understanding of the details of the game and what is going on "under the hood".
picked it up..... ::) Too cheap and looks too good...
PE
Having fun with this and, as I was warned, I am dying often. Right now my biggest hurdle is learning the pacing of the game. Amassing gold is tough and takes a long time (playing as the Troll King) to do.
Yeah, one of my early games was as a barbarian and I found it really hard to acquire gold because you're having to constantly spend it on units. Plus those wandering beasties just keep taking your villages!
When you get the hang of it you'll find the troll king one of the easier classes to play. I've seen it recommended as a newbie class several times. Your hero unit (and something which comes later - around 1.5 years into the game I think) can stomp all over small armies by himself. Just wander around, taking villages and mines and re-taking them as necessary, while your gold builds up. Then you can grab a new hero unit and give him lots of soldiers.
If you need any more detailed advice let me know. I'm really glad you're having fun with it!
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 15, 2013, 02:07:17 PM
Yeah, one of my early games was as a barbarian and I found it really hard to acquire gold because you're having to constantly spend it on units. Plus those wandering beasties just keep taking your villages!
When you get the hang of it you'll find the troll king one of the easier classes to play. I've seen it recommended as a newbie class several times. Your hero unit (and something which comes later - around 1.5 years into the game I think) can stomp all over small armies by himself. Just wander around, taking villages and mines and re-taking them as necessary, while your gold builds up. Then you can grab a new hero unit and give him lots of soldiers.
If you need any more detailed advice let me know. I'm really glad you're having fun with it!
I'm actually surviving now as the Troll King....got some gold, got some units, expanding, exploring...best $2.49 I ever spent. How different do the other ages play? I've only yet played the dark age....at least, I think that's what it's called.
The different ages affect how developed the world is, so the later ages are more likely to have well-defended cities filled with armoured units for example.
I'm really pleased you're enjoying it! I've been playing as the enchanter at Sparhawk's suggestion and getting my arse kicked. I'm finding it the toughest class yet in the early game. However being able to place guardians on resources is very useful.
If not for the "insanity" mechanic I think the necromancer would be my favourite class. Raising massive armies of undead is just too much fun. After that I think I'd say troll king, for the sheer joy of stomping all over towns with the hulking brute. I'm going to try enchanter for a few more games then move on...possibly the witch next.
I played one or two of the other "summoner" style classes, and those are a blast, too. It can take awhile to bring out the big boys, but dayum can some of them melt face if you get a good summon roll.
Perhaps we should get a multiplayer game of COE3 going sometime? I'm not sure if it's only PBEM or if it has TCP/IP play, but MP sounds like it's pretty popular with those who play it.
Its only tcpip, since the turns are so short :)
Quote from: Cougar_DK on February 16, 2013, 05:26:24 PM
Its only tcpip, since the turns are so short :)
I prefer that anyway.
Hmmm. I prefer PBEM. :-\
I'm not totally opposed to the idea of network play but I'm very unreliable unfortunately.
Well, at $2.49 I took the plunge. Perhaps this weekend I'll get a chance to try it out.