Conquest of Elysium 3

[son_of_montfort]

I just found this really excellent AAR from the late-beta over at the Shrapnel forums (so maybe they are publishing CoE3). Reading this really increased my anticipation for the game!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=48292

[son_of_montfort]

Released... but I haven't had enough time to play and formulate an opinion!

[Jarhead0331]

I get that graphics aren't important in a game like CoE3...however, I'm somewhat confounded by the combat screen.  A black screen with little sprites on it that look like little more than dots?  I think Dominions 3 is better than this.

Anyway...I'll wait for your impressions.  I do see a lot of positive commentary floating around out there.

[son_of_montfort]

I get that graphics aren't important in a game like CoE3...however, I'm somewhat confounded by the combat screen.  A black screen with little sprites on it that look like little more than dots?  I think Dominions 3 is better than this.

Anyway...I'll wait for your impressions.  I do see a lot of positive commentary floating around out there.

I sort of like the combat screen. It actually does the same thing as Dom 3 without all the confusion. But Dom 3 had more personality. Also, you can't give "orders" before battle to your units like in Dom 3 - they just fall into front rank, mid rank, back rank categories.

So all this is far less complex than Dom 3.

From the play I got last night, I would say CoE3 is a lot easier to play than Dom 3 - no item creation (but you can find items), no city building/upgrading, no pre-battle orders. That may sound bad, but it also means that the game plays a LOT faster than a game of Dom 3. Also, the AI is noticeably better - it actually puts up quite a bit of a fight.

If you come to CoE3 looking for Dom 4 - then you will be very disappointed. But given that the graphics and UI mechanics have not advanced past Dom 3 (and the CoE 3 UI is far more simple) - there is no real reason to NEED a Dom 4 - Dom 3 remains the top-dog for that sort of gameplay and Illwinter could just as easily sell an AI and race add-on.

So what IS CoE3? Well it plays something like HoMM, mixed with a little bit of Dom 3. And there is a little of an exploration game in there too. Unit counts are far lower than Dom 3, but units are significantly heartier (and you get access to some fairly nasty units pretty early on). The game can also be a challenge, even for surviving attacks from neutral wandering monsters. There is a little feast-or-famine in the random maps, you could start with all sorts of gold and resource generating locations nearby or you could start with a wandering Chimera that blows through your towns.

At first glance the game seems fairly simplistic - you gather troops, you clash with things, you flag places on the map. I'm just now seeing some of the strategic depth, however, as each side has some distinct difference that make them interesting. For instance, playing as the cultists, demonologists, or necromancers - you want to find towns to get sacrifices or hands of glory to summon nasty monsters (as the necromancer you want to find battlefields and graveyards to summon free dead troops). But when you play as the witches, druids, and trolls - you can sort of ignore those places and want to grab stuff like forests and swamps to get your magic resources. As the cultists, for example, those forests are just a nuisance because they take up more movement points.

The recruitment methods can differ as well. When playing Cult, Necro, Demon - you get standard human troops in your citadels. You also tend to get a modest gold income to afford groups of them every few turns. As the necro, you can free-summon dead stuff - so you can have a nice run out of the gate. For the Cultists, you can get free hybrid troops that are nice in coastal towns and you can usually get a deep one or so fairly quickly. Things change dramatically as the Witch - you only have a few troop types, they are very expensive, and your income starts off abysmal. The Witch, however, has a nice spell called "Charm" and she can cast it to gain control of an enemy soldier permanently. Better yet, I managed to summon a creature that also enslaved enemies as a main attack, so I spent several turns grabbing wandering animals - like deer, boars, bears, moose, etc. to add to my army. That is a way different strategy and made the Witch feel very... witchy... with her reliance on the natural world for troops.

So there is a lot to like here. It isn't nearly as cool and deep as Dom 3, but some of Dom 3's limitations are also not present (at least that I could see). Part of the fun is the exploration aspect - the game gives you very little info on what stuff does until you do it - you might find ancient temples or magic libraries that will add to your abilities.

I also fully expect Illwinter will expand the game with each patch. That is what they did with Dom 3, adding new sites and races for free. I certainly hope they keep that up!

[Huw the Poo]

With the recent price drop I'm eyeing this one, albeit warily.  I did try the demo a few weeks ago and had the same initial reaction as Jarhead; it seems very simple on the surface and the combat screen is so abstract that it was tough to know why battles went the way they did.

Am I correct in assuming that the game seems much simpler than it really is, until you take the time to get stuck right into it?

[UlrichVonBek]

I wish they had made a Dom 4 with a more sophisticated combat engine. I hope CoE 3 gets lots of mods. It's quite a high price I feel and really should be at the $10 to $15 mark. Dom 3 is worth the money because it's huge and has oodles of gameplay and options to choice from and things to think about.

The CoE 3 demo felt like a highly cut back Dom 3. If you haven't got Dom 3 I'd say don't bother with CoE 3 save some more money and get Dom 3 instead.

[Huw the Poo]

I considered Dom3 but I'm given to understand that it's primarily a multiplayer game?

[UlrichVonBek]

I considered Dom3 but I'm given to understand that it's primarily a multiplayer game?

The AI gets slated but most games do. I only play it single player and I love it. Though I'm a relative newbie. It's game mechanics suit me. Also I use the Warhammer Nations mods on a massive map, it actually feels like Warhammer! There was a Warhammer map but the single player version wasn't finished unfortunately.

[Huw the Poo]

The AI gets slated but most games do.

Heh, true enough.  I don't mind poor AI since I totally suck at pretty much any game I play anyway.  The only thing I don't like is stuff like the AI players having total view of the map at all times (I'm looking at you, Age of Wonders) or playing by different economic rules.

[bob48]

Oh bloody hell, Huw - Age of Wonders - how I played and played that game, and the expansion to it. Wonderful!

[Huw the Poo]

I only just discovered Age of Wonders myself.  I have absolutely no idea what I was doing when this series was being released, because I totally missed them even though they're right up my street.  I bought Shadow Magic from GoG and I love it, despite my aforementioned gripe about the omniscient AI.  It's a truly wonderful game, full of detail, and with a stunning soundtrack to go with it, which GoG lets you download separately - yay!  There's so much content that, like Sins of a Solar Empire, I doubt I'll ever get bored of it and I'll just keep going back to it again and again.

[Nefaro]

I recently picked up COE3, since it's now $10. 

Didn't plan on getting it, due to being rather simple and reports of the UI needing more informative windows, but I'm kinda glad I did just for some beer & pretzel turn-based fun.

As it probably did for others, makes me eye Dominions 3 as the more filled-out sibling.

[son_of_montfort]

OMG, if you don't own Dominions 3, you need to buy it pronto! Nefaro, you and I share gaming and entertainment styles/tastes, and I can safely say you will enjoy Dominions 3. CoE 3 is fun, but it is like an appetizer compared to Dom 3's full course meal.

[Ubercat]

I'll second the endorsement of Dom 3. It has the deepest strategy of any game I've ever played, and held my attention longer than any other game ever has.

[Tpek]

And Dom3 just popped up on Gamersgate today! :)