Conquest of Elysium 3

[Rayfer]

And Dom3 just popped up on Gamersgate today! :)

I just saw it there for $29.95......now that it is there I wonder if it will come up cheaper during their various sales?

[Nefaro]

Dominions 3 has been going for $29.99 on Desura since last month.

I picked it up a couple days ago.  :-*

I've still been addicted to COE3 lately, mainly because I took a bit of a Roguelike outlook on the game.  Playing Ironman (no save scumming if I lose anything) has certainly helped. 

But the common issue with both COE3 and DOM3 seems to be that the AI has a few problems in singleplayer games.   Once you get some mega-stack armies going, it can't figure out how to compose a strong enough army to counter it, even with some extra AI resource bonuses from raising the difficulty setting.  Thus far in COE3, it habitually sends smaller, weaker, armies at me in steady droves that I defeat rather handily.  Even to the point of sending it's last Commander in one, and losing the game for itself.  That is what it reportedly does in DOM3, too.  The army size isn't quite as much of the problem as the composition.  Even late-game, I see it's still using a lot of it's basic army units from the start of the game when it should have accumulated enough of the specialized currency (depending on 'Class') to have brought out the big monstrous nasties on a regular basis.  But it doesn't do that as often as I do.  So having more big huge beasties and magic-users in my army is usually a big deciding factor.  Since COE3 is a less complicated game, it's AI probably gets more advantage from raising the difficulty (AI cheats) whereas I read that DOM3 has a few other issues, like the AI not being able to research & use the higher level spells very well. 

That being said, I can see why the fanbase is there.  DOM3 is notably deep, and the unit/nation variety is pretty damn awesome in both.  It's the deepest fantasy 'wargame' I recall playing.  But I'll probably have to enforce some house rules on myself once I learn the game well enough (at least in DOM3) so that it's more of a challenge in singleplayer. 

[Ubercat]

I played Dom3 steadily for more than a year and can only claim to have learned about 3 factions very well. Not bad in a game with well over 60! When I tried a new one I was pretty lost unless I stuck with it for a good while.

This game needs MP. AI is OK for testing new strategies but that's about it. For those that don't like MP, LEARN to like it. Dom3 is a fantastic MP experience.

[JasonPratt]

Years ago, back when I was fiddling around more with Dom3, I had a theory that one reason the AI had problems was due to the units not being cost-effectively balanced very well: something a human could learn, but which the AI was never taught.

For example, in early age Ermor, at the time I was playing (there may have been further balance tweaks affecting this since then), the only two really cost-effective units were javelin throwers and slingers. Slingers were a bit worse because it was easier to nullify their main attack (which was limited in times it could be used anyway), but the javelin throwers had a very decent short-range missile attack plus respectable armor/defense and melee/attack skills. (The only reason slingers were almost as good a buy were because they were dirt cheap for how much punch they could provide in the first minutes of a fight.)

Sure, Ermor had stronger units--practically every other unit was stronger! But they weren't so much better as to justify the cost increases. One armored knight was definitely better than three javelin throwers, but I could buy ten or more javs for the same cost, and they came with a first strike missile attack at distance.

Investing solely in javs and slingers allowed me to dominate the game when pitted against any other mundane troops. Sure they died fast and had to be replaced often, but I could afford to replace them often, and they did a lot of damage before being splotted (or routing). I started having trouble when running into one of the Norse Giant factions, but the troops they were using were more cost effective than mine!

The AI demonstrably didn't have instructions on looking to calculate cost-effective troop purchasing; or putting it another way, the devs hadn't sufficiently tweaked the costs and strengths so that a high-dollar unit was certainly worth the money (so that anything the computer chooses to buy would be equally cost effective at a basic level).

[Nefaro]

I just ran into an army full of Earth, Fire, and Water elementals in COE3 so it's not always bad at it.  8)

[Nefaro]

OMG, if you don't own Dominions 3, you need to buy it pronto! Nefaro, you and I share gaming and entertainment styles/tastes, and I can safely say you will enjoy Dominions 3. CoE 3 is fun, but it is like an appetizer compared to Dom 3's full course meal.

BTW..
You are absolutely correct, once again, SOM.  :)

[son_of_montfort]

Give your Ash avatar, I get the picture we have quite a bit in common. I hope you enjoy Dom 3 and, once I actually get some time, we should get some yahoos here to join in a PBEM game of it.

[Nefaro]

A PBEM game would be nice, sometime.  I still have some learning to do but I've read all the essentials.

I don't play pbem very often, myself, as they seem to take forever in most cases.  The start and stop of it doesn't help.  Too bad all PBEM games don't have something like the Slitherine pbem server setup, huh?  ;D

[Ubercat]

You can count me in, as long as I get to play Mictlan!

[Nefaro]

Which Era do you guys prefer in Dom3?  My first has been middle era but I've not read up on the specific changes between them, other than the differences in the available races and the different levels of fantasy flavoring between them.

[JasonPratt]

You can count me in, as long as I get to play Mictlan!

AND MY AXE!

{...checking avatar photo}

AND MY FAUX-CHINESE KATANA!  8)

[JasonPratt]

Which Era do you guys prefer in Dom3?  My first has been middle era but I've not read up on the specific changes between them, other than the differences in the available races and the different levels of fantasy flavoring between them.

I don't recall there being any difference at all between ages except for the differences in the available factions. In fact, a skirmish game can be easily set up (although not so easily that I recall how) with factions from different ages including multiple ages of the same faction. (e.g. Early Ermor, Middle Ermor, Late Ermor, each shifting steadily toward a full-on undead faction, but all playing together on the same map.)

[Ubercat]

The early age factions tend to be more magic heavy while late age is the least. I have no interest in the late age. I think I like early age Mictlan and the middle age giant faction. (I forget the name. Jotunheim?) Early and mid Pangaea are good too.

[Cougar_DK]

Will you be playing the vanilla version in pbem?

[Yskonyn]

Count me in for a PBEM game! I have hosted a few before so I can do it again if needed.
I am nowhere near experienced in Dom3 but I do very much like to play it.
Is it going to be a vanilla game or CBEM ?

I happily play against the AI myself. While the general consensus is that it is crap, my experience is that with some bonusses it poses a pretty good challenge.
Independents are a big factor here in slowing down expansion and giving the AI time to build up iets forces.
But once end game is there, the AI does not seem to know how to use the more advanced troops and magic spells properly. It still poses a challenge though, at least to me.

One thing I found was that when I started playing most people immediately advised me to jump in the MP mayhem. Which I did.
Now, I would advise against it. Play a few singleplayer games first. Get to know the game. Contrary to what may seem the case, I think the AI is more than suited to help you learn to play.
MP can be brutal and many players are very good at using complicated tactics, but you first need a proper understanding of the game. That is hard to do with the short exposure to the game every turn and waiting 24, 36 or more hours to get a turn back and being able to continue with the puzzle.
Once I started to play my own games I immediately began to have more fun.

I have also had a big discussion about starting with or without mods. Some find that you should learn to play with the CBEM.  Because that is pretty much the standard for MP.
I dare say learning to play with vanilla first helps you understand the game better because you can now see what CBEM actually changed.

About the ages: magic availability is the biggest change. And factions.
I never played Late and prefer Early.