Radio General out now!

Started by Foolish Mortals, March 24, 2020, 12:38:27 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JasonPratt

#15
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 24, 2020, 04:05:07 PM
Really stupid question, I'm almost embarrassed to ask so please, all, forgive me.

Exactly how prominent of a role did radio communications play at the tactical level (platoon-company-battalion) in WWII? I know the technology improved drastically from decades prior and there were handheld, portable radios, as well as radios in tanks, aircraft, naval vessels, etc...but just how common were they in use and practice? I imagine there was also great variations among the belligerents and their various OOBs. I just don't recall seeing a lot of photos or reading a lot of literature about the topic. In Vietnam, for instance, the radio operator was much more ubiquitous.


While I sure don't know enough to answer that question in any general way, allow me to post some entries from my Godawfully Huge Next Posting Project That's Like 90% Complete By Now I Hope!  >:D It gives some snapshots on Soviet radio ops, or more specifically the intentional lack thereof on two important days of WW2...

QuoteAugust 20, 1939, the brief Mongolian War: at Khalkhyn-Gol, Zhukov prepares and successfully launches a blitzkrieg invasion [...] Zhukov has forbidden almost all use of radio communications in setting up his blitz, and even land wire instructions are sent with short sentences with contexts only understood by the two people speaking. Each officer receives directions only within the frames of his duties and has no concept of the overall plan, the scope, or the dates of the offensive. Many people do not even know there is to be an offensive today at all! To fool Japanese spies, Zhukov before all has fooled his own soldiers and officers, many of whom until the last moment thought they were starting the preparations for a long period of defense.

(If you're wondering why I count that as being part of WW2, partly it's because the Japanese war on China folded naturally into WW2 once that kicked off a couple of weeks later, and this will be the first time another major power got involved in that war; but mainly it's because on the prior day, August 19th, 1939, Stalin and the Politburo announced to the Soviet government that the second world war was starting that day, after his receipt of Zhukov's telegram that preparations had been completed to blitz the Japanese! Therefore, because WW2 started on August 19th, 1939, by official Soviet reckoning, the Central Committee had to be summoned to arrive no later than September 1st, to enact the USSR's very first universal conscription, as the start of nationwide mobilization -- keeping in mind that in Soviet military doctrine, mobilization necessarily equals war and vice versa. On this day, the 20th, Stalin also ceases negotiating with British and French emissaries and sends a message to Hitler offering to split Poland with him in a joint invasion from either side. The start date for the invasion will of course be Sept 1st! -- except Stalin will show up late. On purpose.  >:D  )

QuoteJune 19, 1941, three days before Barbarossa: Northwestern Front (formerly Baltic Military District) communications commander Major-General Kurochkin has been zooming around up at the still-secret Northwestern Front Headquarters in the Panevyezhis area (while his deputy back in Riga keeps up Baltic MD comms), using landlines to prepare several thousand radio stations in his district to flip over from peacetime to wartime Red Army support, pursuant to expected orders from Moscow. In his "On the Northwestern Front", p.195, he recalls that today, Northwestern Front Chief of Staff Lieutenant-General Klyonov gives him a curious order: "It's a go, per the master plan. You know what I mean?" "'Yes, absolutely!' I declared." Suvorov suggests that Kurochkin doesn't tell his readers what this master plan was -- perhaps Suvorov is obscuring what Kurochkin says here? But the Soviet generals do have some master plan, one that Kurochkin presents Klyonov as being cagey about even in personal conversation; a master plan now on go.

Kurochkin describes how he goes about implementing his side of "the master plan" (ibid, p.118), "The District Communications Office dispatched documentation on how to set up radio links... to the various army headquarters and to formations subordinate to the District itself. All these documents were to be appropriately adapted as they made their way down through corps, division, regiment, and battalion command levels, ultimately reaching those staffing each radio station. That, as I have already said, would have taken no less than a week." He is talking about the distribution of top-secret intelligence, of the kind you only distribute and act upon during a war, being distributed out to thousands of end-users to act upon. This will take at least a week, and then after that the master plan which requires these war-time secrets to be distributed, will activate. Once Kurochkin starts this process, those secrets cannot be put back in the safes; they must be used or else totally voided for replacement later.

Perhaps Chief of Staff Klyanov expects a Nazi invasion? If so, he must suffer a brain embolism between now and three days later, because he adamantly dismisses the possibility of Nazi invasion while it is happening and refuses to do anything about it! Klyanov wasn't a big fan of defense anyway; back in 1940 he had berated Zhukov himself, with Stalin watching, about how Zhukov wasn't being competent enough for Klyanov's standards, at understanding how to prepare and deliver a surprise attack!
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

MengJiao

Quote from: Foolish Mortals on March 24, 2020, 06:03:44 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on March 24, 2020, 05:10:09 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on March 24, 2020, 04:27:41 PM
I did a quick Google search and found a Wikipedia article with a large reference of different radio types used by the Wehrmacht.  It doesn't answer your question by any means, but it seems to indicate that radios were fairly ubiquitous in the Heer down to the battalion or company level, at the very least.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Communications_of_the_German_Army_in_World_War_II

I've actually wondered myself how common radio kits were at the sub-company level in WW2.  I'm not sure I've ever seen any specific literature or videos about radios at the tactical level, so it's actually a pretty good question.

I mentioned such things not so much to suggest they might work in the game, but to suggest that there was a lot of radio traffic going on.  On the allied side there were definitely elaborate wire telephone nets that were supposed to be up and running as soon as possible.  Of course, advancing units left the phone nets behind pretty fast, but in theory the phone nets were supposed to carry most of the routine signals traffic.

  There were a lot of radios, but also a lot of phone lines and of course (to repeat something I've noted excessively) by 1944 if not earlier, the Germans were using their radios so much that US signals intelligence often thought they were looking at deceptive/fake radio traffic because German radio use bordered on the absurd even for routine movements.  There was just too much German radio traffic to take seriously, I guess.  In Normandy Panzer group west HQ was pinpointed and wiped out due to signals intercepts (for example).

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_raid_on_La_Caine_(1944)

   

Yes! Putting all those messages up in the air is a dangerous proposition, especially since the Allies had overwhelming air superiority at that point. Information warfare is super cool, and I wish we implemented in Radio General, but sadly we didn't have the time to add it in.

al_infierno

Video on this by Rimmy -- he seems to like it quite a bit :)



A War of a Madman's Making - a text-based war planning and political survival RPG

It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

JasonPratt

Well, you know, Australia, Canadia, the Commonwealth of the United Kingdom scares even Rommel!  :bd:
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Grim.Reaper


Ian C


Foolish Mortals

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on April 09, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Released....
You beat me to the punch! Yes, we just released today!

We have a live-stream on the steam page if you want to see more gameplay.

I'm also happy to answer any questions you have.

Quote from: Ian C on April 09, 2020, 02:34:37 PM
Some letsplay vids:








Thanks for posting these!

Apocalypse 31

#22
I don't understand how this is supposed to play, and seems both unrealistic and unauthentic. Seems like an RTS without graphics.

I understand the concept for the game Radio Commander - to emulate or simulate how a commander fights from a command post using a map and only radio reports. The challenge being that the commander has to decipher reports and battle-track his forces.

But here it seems different. You can clearly see and decipher the situation on the map. You can move forces by simply clicking on their icons, and you can see when they're in contact and when they're moving.

I don't understand.


Some pet peeves
1. Why are Battalions called A-Z? They have names, or why not just refer to them as 1st Battalion, 2nd Battalion, etc. Nevermind - see #2.

2. The in-game player is supposed to be a General officer, not a Battalion Commander. Why is a General moving companies around? (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/1011610/ss_aba45fb1896b201c623ae370e29d9457ddc90d95.1920x1080.jpg?t=1586503258)

3. The concept for a game like this completely flawed - a commander (especially at the Brigade or Division level) has a STAFF of people advising him, and doing their own tracking. Things like 'Estimate the enemy combat strength' would be provided to you by your S2.

4. The quick quips over the radio net: "Grab you shovels and dig in, boys". Shut the hell up and get off my net!, especially if this is a game about radio communications. This is the same issue I had with Radio Commander. The unnecessary dialogue over the radio - especially the anti-war, racist stuff.

5. Grid system: Numbers and Letters? What?

Jarhead0331

#23
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on April 10, 2020, 06:59:55 AM
I don't understand how this is supposed to play, and seems both unrealistic and unauthentic. Seems like an RTS without graphics.

I understand the concept for the game Radio Commander - to emulate or simulate how a commander fights from a command post using a map and only radio reports. The challenge being that the commander has to decipher reports and battle-track his forces.

But here it seems different. You can clearly see and decipher the situation on the map. You can move forces by simply clicking on their icons, and you can see when they're in contact and when they're moving.

I don't understand.


Some pet peeves
1. Why are Battalions called A-Z? They have names, or why not just refer to them as 1st Battalion, 2nd Battalion, etc. Nevermind - see #2.

2. The in-game player is supposed to be a General officer, not a Battalion Commander. Why is a General moving companies around? (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/1011610/ss_aba45fb1896b201c623ae370e29d9457ddc90d95.1920x1080.jpg?t=1586503258)

3. The concept for a game like this completely flawed - a commander (especially at the Brigade or Division level) has a STAFF of people advising him, and doing their own tracking. Things like 'Estimate the enemy combat strength' would be provided to you by your S2.

4. The quick quips over the radio net: "Grab you shovels and dig in, boys". Shut the hell up and get off my net!, especially if this is a game about radio communications. This is the same issue I had with Radio Commander. The unnecessary dialogue over the radio - especially the anti-war, racist stuff.

5. Grid system: Numbers and Letters? What?

Let me help you.

Its a G-A-M-E.  Is there anything about the look of this thing that screams to you, "authentic military radio communication simulator?"

You've come to this thing with real world experience and real world expectations. Looking at your own experience, is there anything that you would expect the majority of gamers to find appealing about it all? Probably not. There has to be significant liberties taken in order to appeal to the target audience.

I agree that the over-the-top radio chatter utterly detracts from the immersion of the game and is totally unnecessary. But, your other complaints regarding nomenclature, grids, and staff positions? You're expectations are way too high, bro. 
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Apocalypse 31

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 10, 2020, 07:46:41 AM
Let me help you.

Its a G-A-M-E.  Is there anything about the look of this thing that screams to you, "authentic military radio communication simulator?"

Absolutely not and I'm not picking apart the game because its not authentic or realistic (it is neither). I listed my pet peeves, not what I think breaks the game.

I'm questioning the game because its core concept seems flawed.

Commanding units over the radio - but the game clearly paints the picture for the player on the MAP. You can see unit movements and when they're fighting, and you can order them to move by just clicking where you want them to go. So, what is the point of even using radio communications?

Jarhead0331

Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on April 10, 2020, 07:57:26 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 10, 2020, 07:46:41 AM
Let me help you.

Its a G-A-M-E.  Is there anything about the look of this thing that screams to you, "authentic military radio communication simulator?"

Absolutely not and I'm not picking apart the game because its not authentic or realistic (it is neither). I listed my pet peeves, not what I think breaks the game.

I'm questioning the game because its core concept seems flawed.

Commanding units over the radio - but the game clearly paints the picture for the player on the MAP. You can see unit movements and when they're fighting, and you can order them to move by just clicking where you want them to go. So, what is the point of even using radio communications?

Well, although I have it, I have not played it yet. I will concede that if the use of the radio is illusory and at all times, the player has a complete and accurate picture of what is occurring on the map, then yeah, there really is no point?  That is certainly a fair gripe. No question.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Jarhead0331

Yeah...whoever was playing in the videos was playing on easy difficulty. In that mode, all pieces are placed in their correct location and there is no fog of war. Not sure why anyone would want to play this game that way. There are two more modes of realism. Normal and hard. Normal requires contact with your units to determine their locations as well as the locations of the enemy, but it provides visual feedback of the action on the map and provides certain bonuses if you place your unit figurines or counters correctly. Hard mode eliminates the visual feedback and the bonuses.

There are a lot of immersive touches and some good historical flair. So far, my favorite touch is this...



Thank God I never had to write one of these letters for real.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


al_infierno

So, it sounds like it's basically the same as Radio Commander?  i.e. you can have everything automated or you can manually track everything as intended?
A War of a Madman's Making - a text-based war planning and political survival RPG

It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Foolish Mortals

Quote from: al_infierno on April 10, 2020, 12:05:26 PM
So, it sounds like it's basically the same as Radio Commander?  i.e. you can have everything automated or you can manually track everything as intended?
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on April 10, 2020, 06:59:55 AM
I don't understand how this is supposed to play, and seems both unrealistic and unauthentic. Seems like an RTS without graphics.

I understand the concept for the game Radio Commander - to emulate or simulate how a commander fights from a command post using a map and only radio reports. The challenge being that the commander has to decipher reports and battle-track his forces.

But here it seems different. You can clearly see and decipher the situation on the map. You can move forces by simply clicking on their icons, and you can see when they're in contact and when they're moving.

I don't understand.


Some pet peeves
1. Why are Battalions called A-Z? They have names, or why not just refer to them as 1st Battalion, 2nd Battalion, etc. Nevermind - see #2.

2. The in-game player is supposed to be a General officer, not a Battalion Commander. Why is a General moving companies around? (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/1011610/ss_aba45fb1896b201c623ae370e29d9457ddc90d95.1920x1080.jpg?t=1586503258)

3. The concept for a game like this completely flawed - a commander (especially at the Brigade or Division level) has a STAFF of people advising him, and doing their own tracking. Things like 'Estimate the enemy combat strength' would be provided to you by your S2.

4. The quick quips over the radio net: "Grab you shovels and dig in, boys". Shut the hell up and get off my net!, especially if this is a game about radio communications. This is the same issue I had with Radio Commander. The unnecessary dialogue over the radio - especially the anti-war, racist stuff.

5. Grid system: Numbers and Letters? What?

Thanks for listing your concerns.
1.  They're listed A-Z to be easily identifiable by speech recognition

2. For some missions you do command battalions (and some companies), but absolutely a general would be commanding more troops. We didn't want to overwhelm the player with too many units, and we felt having larger units to cover larger areas would feel strange to command (and cover too large a portion of the map).

3. As others have mentioned, we put these tasks on you since you're the player, and it's fun. Of course you'd have help in real-life.

4. We don't have long conversations over the radio with your troops, but it's true they do add a small bit of flavour in acknowledgements - they'd be pretty dry if all they said was "Roger, acknwoleged". It is however understandable not to like this.

5. Grid coordinates for speech recognition.


Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 10, 2020, 10:57:53 AM
Yeah...whoever was playing in the videos was playing on easy difficulty. In that mode, all pieces are placed in their correct location and there is no fog of war. Not sure why anyone would want to play this game that way. There are two more modes of realism. Normal and hard. Normal requires contact with your units to determine their locations as well as the locations of the enemy, but it provides visual feedback of the action on the map and provides certain bonuses if you place your unit figurines or counters correctly. Hard mode eliminates the visual feedback and the bonuses.

There are a lot of immersive touches and some good historical flair. So far, my favorite touch is this...



Thank God I never had to write one of these letters for real.
I was playing on the 'normal' realism setting - I did not see the map, and pieces were never automatically moved (except in mission sign-in). I accurately kept track of where my units were by asking my units where they were. I made the game, so of course me playing it makes it look easy.

Glad you liked the letter! We wanted to add a human cost to sending faceless soldiers into battle.

Foolish Mortals

Quote from: al_infierno on April 10, 2020, 12:05:26 PM
So, it sounds like it's basically the same as Radio Commander?  i.e. you can have everything automated or you can manually track everything as intended?
We have three levels of 'realism' to choose from - low realism moves figurines for you when they report statyus. 'High' realism doesn't have any figurine movement at all except when the units first introduce themselves at the start of a mission.