Middle Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread

Started by JasonPratt, September 17, 2018, 05:04:17 PM

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JasonPratt

Quote from: Erax on October 03, 2018, 01:23:37 PM
So we can drop 6a and interpret rule 6 to mean that a faction will transfer to its Senator in the Revenue Phase and then (in the same Revenue Phase) donate to Rome. Therefore the TSR money can never be lost before it's donated.

Right.

Quote from: Erax on October 03, 2018, 01:23:37 PMBy your interpretation of rule 5, there won't be any transfer from faction to faction, if the fund is at 8 talents (for example) and there's 4 factions in the Agreement, contributing 8 talents, you'll give 2 of those talents to the current faction to make 10 (which they'll transfer to their Senator + donate as soon as they can) and then you'll give the remaining 6 talents to the next faction in order. Did I get it right?

Correct.
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Erax

OK, rewriting 5 and 6 then:

5. If donations to the TSR Fund during the Revenue Phase bring it to 10 talents, the Receiving Faction will transfer those 10 talents to its Senator with the least amount of Popularity in the same Revenue Phase. It may choose between Senators if there is a tie for least popularity. Any remaining Talents to be received in that Revenue Phase go to the Signing Faction with the next lowest Player Number, and that other faction becomes the Receiving Faction.

6. When a faction transfers 10 talents to one of its Senators during a Revenue Phase, that Senator must donate those 10 talents to Rome in the same Revenue Phase.

JasonPratt

Quote from: Erax on October 03, 2018, 04:53:36 PM
5. If donations to the TSR Fund during the Revenue Phase bring it to 10 talents,

...I was going to tweak that phrasing, since donations of cash from Faction to Faction can occur at any time (now that we've reached the Revolution Phase of Turn One); but they don't fully arrive until the Revenue Phase, so the wording still works.

Quote from: Erax on October 03, 2018, 04:53:36 PMWhen a faction transfers 10 talents to one of its Senators during a Revenue Phase, that Senator must donate those 10 talents to Rome in the same Revenue Phase.

Strictly speaking, that would be if the Talents come from the Faction's TSR purse. Someone might distribute 10 Talents to a senator for some other reasons, like spending 5 on bribing a senator to join the Faction and also spending 5 to ensure a knight joins a senator.


Meanwhile, I'm finally home from work, and I can work on catching up the map and mats.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
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ArizonaTank

Quote from: Ethel the Frog on October 03, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
I think it is an interesting proposal and I am glad you suggested it. 

It is, effectively, a taxation system.  I am not familiar enough with the game to be comfortable with such a system personally and my inclination would be to table it until we have played a few rounds.

....But, if we don't have clear interest in it in the short run, I think we can safely table it for this turn and keep it on the potential agenda for next.

Put the conservatives in the "table it until we have some more turns behind us" category. I am such a newbie, it is hard for me to see the benefit yet.
Johannes "Honus" Wagner
"The Flying Dutchman"
Shortstop: Pittsburgh Pirates 1900-1917
Rated as the 2nd most valuable player of all time by Bill James.

JasonPratt

The only benefit is that it would encourage senators to donate to the Republic's Treasury at a time when the Republic can be punched out financially (or hanging by a Plutocrat thread ;) ), by arranging the donations in such a way that your donating senators will pick up a little Influence for doing so.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

I have now slotted Erax into the game as the Progressive Faction:



I'll zip into his sideboard in a minute. At this point, everyone except Erax has played all the Statesmen and/or Concessions they can or will play. So I'll do some catchup snapshots of the Faction mats.














I've elected not to give any starting Faction cash to Malize or Erax, since no one has a lot of Faction cash yet anyway, and everyone's about to get income from the Revenue Phase anyway.

Depending on when-if-ever we pick up a 7th and 8th player, I may revisit this, since joining late might be a little too handicapped without some startup cash. This is only Turn 2 (upcoming) though.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

Note: since Cincinnatus cannot Rebel (yet) against the Senate, the 4th Legion actually goes back to the Active Pool automatically. It shouldn't be in his snapshot, and I've adjusted on the mat accordingly while working on the first Phases of Turn Two.

Note: I've sent a p-mail to Erax concerning his two Faction cards, and he should play at least one of them. For asynchronous purposes, I'll hold open his ability to play valid cards from the Revolution Phase, until after he completes his round in the Revenue Phase. If he plays a Concession that would trigger during Revenue, I'll retroactively apply it.

Note: since there have been two preferences among 6 players to table Erax's public contract, I'm going to proceed along without it. It probably needs 5 Players to work correctly anyway, but if any number of Players want to join the contract, I'll make provisions to start implementing it.

Note: as with last Turn, there aren't any choices yet which would affect other Players during this Phase (barring the TSR contract, which could still be implemented this Revenue Phase, and which can still be played asynch really). So once again, I'll do the income report for each Player/Faction, and report your choice options, but any Player can report their choices to me at any time instead of waiting for Players to work around the Table.

Next up, I'll do the Faction incomes and report them, with each Faction's valid choice options.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Erax

#157
Before the Revolution Phase ends, I'll play a Tax Concession card on Plautius.

If anyone who hasn't spoken up yet decides to join the contract this turn, we'll agree to put it in effect starting next turn.

JasonPratt

#158
TURN TWO -- MORTALITY PHASE

Kicking off Turn 2! No Immanent Wars to Activate.  Family #21 suffers a death, but they aren't politically active yet.

REVENUE PHASE segment one, Faction incomes.

I have decided that perhaps the best balance for incoming Players will be to grant 1 Talent x Turn # of the upcoming (or current) Revenue Phase, to each of the two starting senators, as the Faction spawns in. Each senator of the Populist and Progressive Factions, then, gets 2 Talents for their personal treasuries. This will give new Factions something of a fighting chance, since their senators would hardly be doing nothing in the Turns before spawning in; but it won't be as much income as even two actually playing senators would earn across the same Turns doing nothing (which would be 3 + 1 per Turn due to the Faction Leader getting benefits of being a Faction Leader. No Faction yet, no Faction Leader benefits!)

Keep in mind, when planning distributions back to your senators, that 5 Talents will guarantee persuading a knight to join one of your senators as a minion this Turn!

Aristocrats: 3 starting cash, +2 from personal treasuries, +3 income from Faction Leader, +2 income from all other senators, +0 from knights, +3 from Valerius' Harbor Fees = 13 Talents. (No corruption marker yet since prosecutions still impossible.) Distribute cash to senators; and then declare any contributions from them to Rome. You have enough cash for 1 senator to earn 1 Influence by donating 10 Talents.

Militarists: 0 starting cash, +2 from personal treasuries, +3 +1 income from senators, +1 from knights = 7 Talents. Distribute cash to senators; and declare any contributions from them to Rome.

Plutocrats: 4 starting cash, +0 from personal treasuries, +5 +1 income from senators (Plutocrat Leaders earn +5 not +3), +2 cash from knights, +2 more cash from knights (Plutocrat ability) = 14 Talents. Distribute to your senators; and declare any contributions from them to Rome. You have enough for 1 senator to earn 1 Inf.

Conservatives: 2 starting cash, +1 from personal treasuries, +3 +3 income from senators, +0 from knights, +0 from concessions = 9 Talents. Distribute to your senators; and then declare any contributions from them to Rome.

Populists: 0 starting cash, +4 from personal treasuries (1 Talent per starting senator x Turn 2), +3 +1 income from senators, +0 from knights, +3 from Aurelius' Mining Concession (no corruption yet) = 11 Talents. Distribute to your senators; and then declare any contributions from them to Rome. You have enough for 1 senator to earn 1 Inf.

Progressives: 0 starting cash, +4 from personal treasuries (1 Talent per starting senator x Turn 2), +3 +1 income from senators (it doesn't matter which senator is Faction Leader yet), +0 from knights, +2 from Plautius' Tax Concession (no corruption yet) = 10 Talents. Distribute to your senators; and then declare any contributions from them to Rome. You have enough for 1 senator to earn 1 Inf.



Exar, technically you have to choose which senator you want to be your Faction Leader when your Faction spawns in, but since specifically who is leader doesn't matter at the moment, and since you'll soon have a choice to assign or confirm the Leadership anyway, I've moved along without needing your choice on that yet. You can safely wait until your round of the Forum Phase to choose.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

Quote from: Erax on October 03, 2018, 06:59:04 PM
Before the Revolution Phase ends, I'll play a Tax Concession card on Plautius.

Noted and adjusted.

If y'all make the contract during this segment of the Revenue Phase, I'll count it for this Turn, and people can make donations immediately to the first valid participant(s) during this segment. I'll set up TSR trackers for each participating Player.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Erax

Flaminius gets Faction Leader.

If no one enters the contract, I'll distribute 5 talents to each Senator and leave 0 in the faction treasury.

If we get the contract going this turn, I'll give Flaminius 5 talents, donate 2 to the contract and keep 3 in the faction treasury.

Ethel the Frog

Apparently, we all need to announce whether we are playing (or trading or discarding) any cards.  I am not playing (or trading or discarding) any cards.   

The frog stands pat.   

Ethel the Frog

"Plutocrats: 4 starting cash, +0 from personal treasuries, +5 +1 income from senators (Plutocrat Leaders earn +5 not +3), +2 cash from knights, +2 more cash from knights (Plutocrat ability) = 14 Talents. Distribute to your senators; and declare any contributions from them to Rome. You have enough for 1 senator to earn 1 Inf."

That being the case, I will spend to get one senator to earn 1 inf.  I belive that is done by giving 10 talents to Appius and then he donates to to rome? 

Assuming that's corect, the remaining four will stay as faction cash.  It's getting to where I should actually read the rules to this game...

JasonPratt

Eth, yep that's a valid move, I'll log it.  O0

Erax's optional fork is noted; I'll resolve it later once everyone has weighed in.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

Quote from: Erax on October 03, 2018, 07:58:32 PM
Flaminius gets Faction Leader.

Oh, incidentally, I figured out what the original "Birth of the Republic" guy meant when he said that Flaminius inherits from Cincinnatus. He didn't mean the Flaminia family Senator; he meant a different Statesman from Cinc's family with the cognomen Flaminius.

So the way that would work is this: if Cinc's actual family is already politically active by the time the Early Era starts, then the family Senator inherits just like for everyone's pre-Early Statesmen. (Also, any other pre-Early Statesmen not yet played get discarded.) But it's possible that Statesman Flam, who is an Early Era Statesmen, could get played to kick off the Era. (I'll explain later how and why that happens, don't worry for now.) In that case, all of Cinc's counters go to him, even if Cinc's family has already been played active; Flam gets played onto the family, replacing Cinc. Or if the family isn't active yet, Flam just replaces Cinc and then collects the family whenever they show up (if Flam lives long enough).
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!