Middle Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread

Started by JasonPratt, September 17, 2018, 05:04:17 PM

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JasonPratt

TURN SIX -- Revolution Phase
----------------------------
No rebellions possible yet.
No one needs to discard down to 5 cards or less.

No one has a Statesman or Concession which can be validly played (I double checked). And that ends the Turn!

It's bedtime here for me, so I'll start processing Turn Seven tomorrow afternoon or evening, with the Mortality Phase; the first segment of the Revenue Phase; and a new batch of snapshots for the status quo.
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Tripoli

Also, one legion becomes veteran. (Rule 1.10.5 ) ("One Legion from among the survivors of a Land Battle that is a Stalemate, Standoff, or Victory is transformed into a Veteran Legion by flipping it to its Veteran side).  Here's a question:  The rule also provides that the "Legion Allegiance marker is placed on the Commander's card "  I'm really not interested in having any legions with allegiance to Manlius.  Is it possible for me to voluntarily give up the legions' allegiance?  I would think so, as this would be similar to the historical Cincinatus  (or George Washington) turning back to civilian life after a war.
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?" -Abraham Lincoln

Erax

I think Veterans are unlocked only in the next era.

JasonPratt

Veteran generation starts after the pre-Early Eras end. During "Birth of the Republic" no Veteran Legions can be created.

That wasn't even my rule. ;) But I agree with it for balancing purposes.

Quote from: Tripoli on November 29, 2018, 09:04:57 AM
Here's a question:  The rule also provides that the "Legion Allegiance marker is placed on the Commander's card "  I'm really not interested in having any legions with allegiance to Manlius.  Is it possible for me to voluntarily give up the legions' allegiance?  I would think so, as this would be similar to the historical Cincinatus  (or George Washington) turning back to civilian life after a war.

Sorrrrt of. The rule on this is bound up with the rules on declaring or refusing to rebel against the Senate, which also a functionality that unlocks in the next Era. (That one is my house rule, since rebellion was kept in Birth of the Republic in case Players wanted to make it a game to itself instead of a prequel to the main game. However, rebellion to kingship against the Senate was so sharply watched during the period of Italian expansion that senators were often executed on the flimsiest charges of conspiring to overthrow the Republic and institute a monarchy. And for the 'tutorial' purpose of Latin/Italian Era prologues, I decided it was better gameplay and also more historically accurate to hold off the Rebellion functionality until the Early Era.)


The process works like this: if this fight had happened in the Early Provincial Era (or later), Manlius would have returned to your mat still carrying the Legions, one of which would have become a Veteran. (I can't recall if I randomized this or decided it would just be the oldest available Legion, i.e. the one with the lowest number not yet a Veteran.) He would have been given the loyalty chit for the Vet Legion, too.

During the Revolution Phase, Players decide whether they are going to rebel against the Senate or not. Players considering rebellion would poll the non-Veteran Legions to see which of them would agree to join, which is allowed before making a decision.

A returning Victorious Commander, like Manlius, would have a big advantage about this, because he would have first crack at polling the Legions returning with him. (I'm at the office and working from memory so I may have the details a little off, but I'm sure this is the gist.)

Also, a rebelling senator could be assured at being joined by any and all Veteran Legions whose loyalty chit he's holding!

Assuming you don't rebel during the Revolution Phase, the Legions go back to the Active Pool, with any Vet Legions joining a special slot reserved for them. Henceforth, they can be assigned by the Senate to any War, just like any other Legion. However, if Manlius (for example) decided to rebel against the Senate later, he could still call upon his loyalty-chit Vets and they would defect to him automatically.

Starting in the following Turn, during the Forum Phase (if I recall correctly), you would have the option for Manlius to retire any or all of the Vet Legions loyal to him: the ones whose loyalty chits he is holding. (Obviously this is also true for any Player with any number of his senators holding loyalty chits.) Manlius doesn't have to do that on the first Turn following -- he can do it on any following Forum Phase (or whatever Phase it is, but it's either the Forum Phase or the Revenue Phase.)

But if Manlius (for our example) turned in his loyalty chit for that Veteran Legion, then the Vet Legion would be placed back in the Force Pool as a Vet, and Manlius would now flip over his loyalty chit granting him a little extra Popularity and (if I recall correctly) Oratory.

The Senate can still call this Legion out of retirement, but only if no other Legions remain in the Force Pool; and if they do then it comes back as a non-Veteran: the Vet Legion would go from the Force Pool back into the Veteran bag, and its normal Legion chit would go to the Active Pool. (They're out of practice.) I'd have to check to see if they would still have tacit loyalty to Manlius or not, i.e. whether he still keeps his flipped loyalty chit and thus his extra stat bonuses. Possibly he does but only if he didn't vote for them to come out of retirement.

If Manlius himself calls them up again, then he definitely loses his extra stat chit, but I'd have to check whether they come back as Vets or just a normal (now out of practice) Legion.

If the current Manlius dies, then his loyalty chit goes back into the loyalty-chit bag, and the Vet Legion in the Force Pool (or off in a special retirement pool perhaps) gets replaced with its normal Legion status in the Force Pool, effectively resetting it completely.


Again, I'll need to check the rules when I get home, to dial in the details there, but that's pretty close and should get the gist of it.

The short version is that as long as you refuse to rebel against the Republic when you're returning to Rome after a Victory, then the Vets can be given by the Senate to any senator as Force Commander, or sent to a Province for a Garrison for that matter. But your senator still holds their loyalty. This is important even if Manlius never plans to rebel against the Senate, because it prevents Julius over there (as an historically pertinent example ;) ) from even trying to call upon them to rebel against the Republic!

(Speaking of Julius your Militarist senator...  :coolsmiley: When a Player rebels, he can decide how many senators in his Faction will join the rebellion. Not all of them have to, but everyone who does will contribute any mobile forces they govern at their Province -- at least the provincial militias plus I think also any Garrison, or at least try to roll for their allegiance -- plus any Veteran Legions they can call on.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
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Ethel the Frog

This is a very intricate game.  Thanks for doing so much work to hold it together. 

JasonPratt

Y'all are welcome, and thank you all for letting me experiment on you, mua ha ha ha haaa! --- wait, did I say that out loud?^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hplay the game vicariously through you. (Phew, that sounds better.)

But yeah, the game is going to get more intricate as it goes. This is why I figured there needed to be a non-playing umpire or gamemaster, and also a progressing tutorial (which the Birth of the Republic fan expansion serves for nicely).

Clarifying some Veteran rules already mentioned (there are more such rules in the rules, but I was trying to stick with the rules pertinent to Tripoli's question): retired Veteran Legions can be recalled by Tribune Proposal with a successful vote, but only if no other Legions remain in the Force Pool; or they can be recalled at will by a Dictator or by either Consul (Roman or Field) at any time during the Senate. When recalled this way, they do remain Veterans; but regardless of how they are recalled, their loyalty to whichever senator they became Veterans under is sacrificed (and he loses the Pop/Ora bonus). This disconnects them permanently from loyalty to any senator henceforth (as far as I can tell), which also means they can't be retired again. Recalling them to Active service costs 10 Talents, just like Raising a Legion from the Force Pool, but the Republic only pays it from a vote to Raise them. If they are Raised by a Consular or Dictatorial fiat, then the senator raising them must pay the cost from his personal Treasury, with any difference made up by his Faction's Treasury. If that isn't enough, they can't be Raised by that Officer's authoritative recall.


According to my notes, I did decide that the oldest non-Vet of a non-defeated battle would become a Veteran Legion (with some variations in the case of a Civil War).


The only Players who can validly Rebel during the Revolution Phase are ones with a Victorious returning Commander, or with Governors of a Province which has Garrison Legions and/or Provincial militia. This simplifies the question of which units might follow them in rebellion. Veterans will always defect from an army to follow whichever senator controls their allegiance chit, with the subtle consequence that a PlayerX might decide to let PlayerY dice for using X's Vet Legion being commanded currently by Y, and then X could later yank his Vet Legion out from under Y at an opportune moment! (The political screwery in this game, is just boggling...  :smitten: )
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

TURN SEVEN -- MORTALITY PHASE
-----------------------------

No Immanent Wars to Activate yet.

After thoroughly shuffling, Family #10 is drawn from the Death Bag -- much to the grief of the Populist Faction, and to the Republic as a whole! The immensely Popular Statesman Lucius Junius Brutus, the first Statesman of the Republic (though in this game not the first assigned to a Faction), has died. Though he would have liked to fight in the first Latin War, and held strong Military skill, his Popularity rested in the Civic Arts: primarily in his sponsorship of the first Circus Maximus of the Republic, as well as aiding Aurelius in organizing a Gladiatorial honorarium.

Brutus thus does not survive to "retire" at the end of the Italian Era, and so also his preparations to train a Junian to inherit from him have not come to fruition. His statistic buffs are deleted, and his card permanently discards. The Junius family Senator card goes to the Curia.

This is a hideous blow for the Populist Faction, which only had two senators among its chief representatives so far. But there is a little good news. The Juniads are a politically active family already -- his family card was under Brutus -- and Malize made Brutus his Faction Leader. Consequently, the Juniads rapidly promoted one of their scions as the new patrician of the family, and ensured his senatorial seat, so that they would not risk losing Leadership of the Faction: the Junius family Senator returns directly and immediately to Malize from the Curia, as the new Faction Leader.

Still, it's a grievous blow. The freshly risen Juniad only has a Mil 1; Ora 2; Loy 8; and Inf 3. The Faction's Vote tally has divided by half, down to only 9. And their total Influence has dropped to 6.

This ends the Mortality Phase.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

#697
TURN SEVEN -- REVENUE PHASE
---------------------------

Segment one, the Faction incomes:

I.I.'s Aristocrats start with 6 Faction cash; +0 Personal cash; +3 +2 senator incomes; +5 knight incomes; +2 +2 Tax Farmings; +3 Harbor Fees
= new total 23 Faction cash.


Tripoli's Militarists start with 15 Faction cash; +15 Personal cash; +3 +2 senator incomes; +5 knight incomes; +2 +2 Tax Farmings
= new total 44 Faction cash.


The Frog's Plutocrats start with 0 Faction cash; 18 Personal cash; +5 (Plutocrat ability) +2 senator incomes; (+3 +2) x2 (Faction ability) knight incomes; 1d6 roll = 6 PontMax income; +0 Concessions
= new total 41 Faction cash.


AzTank's Conservatives start with 31 Faction cash; +4 Personal cash; +3 +2 senator incomes; +3 knight incomes; +0 Concessions
= new total 43 Faction cash.
(He is required to keep a minimum reserve of 12 Talents in Faction cash this Turn, in accordance with the Aristo-Conservation Contract. He may transfer 12 Talents to the Aristocrats at any time to fulfill this part of his Contract. If he does so during the Revenue Phase, the cash will arrive in I.I.'s Faction Treasury immediately.)


Malize's Populists start with 4 Faction cash; +0 Personal cash; +3 +1 senator incomes; +2 knight incomes; +3 Mining management
= new Faction Total 9 cash. THIRTEEN cash!


Erax's Progressives start with 2 Faction cash; +15 Personal cash; +3 +1 senator incomes; +2 knight incomes; +2 +2 Tax Farmings
= new Faction Total 27 cash.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

All Concessions trigger minor corruptions as normal.

Players may now distribute their Faction cash, and choose whether one or more of their senators will donate to the Republic's Treasury. As a reminder, each senator earns 1 influence if giving 10 to 24 talents; 3 Influence if 25 to 49 talents.

(Rome currently has 116 Talents, with a coming income of 40 more Talents and 10 Legions x -2 Talents upkeep, also another -10 for the ongoing 2nd Latin War.)

Players should also plan forward for persuading knights (5 Talents gets an automatic knight); Sponsoring Games (7, 11, or 18 Talents buys 1, 2, or 3 Popularity with equivalent Unrest reductions); and bribing or counter-bribing any new family Senators who may arrive in the Curia (from personal or from Faction Treasuries respectively).
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Ethel the Frog

I will give 25 to Acilius, 6 to the other two senators, and leave the rest in faction cash.  Acilius will donate all 25 and thereby get the 3 influence. 

Ethel the Frog

PS: My condolences to the populists for their loss.  Let us know if there is anything we can do to help in your time of need. 

IncompetentIdiot

5 to Valerius, 10 to Cornelius, 2 to Cincinnatus.

JasonPratt

Plutocrats and Aristocrats processed.

Republic cash up 25 to 141, along the way, thanks to Acilius, who gained 3 Influence for his donation (Plutocrat total up to 41 -- which ties with the Aristocrats currently, deactivating their activist-knight ability.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Erax

17 on Flaminius, 8 on Plautius. To speed things along, if I'm not here for the Forum Phase Plautius will spend 3 on a Knight roll.

As I understand the setup, Fabius will not be up for persuasion this turn but we still have some senator cards lurking in the Era Deck, right?

Tripoli

#704
5 to Julius, 25 to Aelius, the rest (14)  to faction cash. Julius buys a knight, Aelius donates the 25 to the treasury for the +3 influence
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?" -Abraham Lincoln