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Started by republic, October 28, 2013, 06:25:38 AM

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Yskonyn

Really the MFG's aren't expensive for what you get; full metal construction with countless ways to set things up according your body Dimensions and preferences.
A few deadzone and linearity mods easily swapped and hall sensors which aren't only as accurate as sensors come in peripherals, but also don't suffer from wear and tear.

But yeah, 80 dollars for shipping is a hump you would have to be willing to take. :(
"Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing.
However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore."

jomni

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 06:03:25 AM
The twist stick...and it is a challenge.

What do you use for racing?

JudgeDredd

Quote from: jomni on May 08, 2016, 08:25:39 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 06:03:25 AM
The twist stick...and it is a challenge.

What do you use for racing?
Logitech Formula Force
Alba gu' brath

jomni

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 08:41:05 AM
Quote from: jomni on May 08, 2016, 08:25:39 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 06:03:25 AM
The twist stick...and it is a challenge.

What do you use for racing?
Logitech Formula Force

Pedals can't be used for flight?

JudgeDredd

They plug into the steering wheel. I've never tried having the steering wheel and the joystick plugged in at the same time but I can't imagine it would work.

I will have a try though
Alba gu' brath

DoctorQuest

#305
While I don't know that you can consider pedals a requirement for helo flight they certainly help. Helos and fixed wing tail draggers require "happy feet" to control properly.

One trick I learned both in ground school and from a pilot who took me up for a flight is to NOT put your entire foot on the rudder pedal unless you need to use the brakes. Place your heels on the floor and use your toes to work the pedals. It allows for a much finer degree of control for that axis. You are basically using your foot movement for control rather than your leg. I have CH pedals and this works just fine.

I don't have the Gazelle but I've done my share of stick time in Hind which has a significantly realistic flight model requiring good control of all three axes. (So does MS flight sim's Bell helo.)
"Everything you read on the internet is true." - Benjamin Franklin

"Zero-G and I feel fine....." - John Glenn

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage, inventor of the alternative fact.

JudgeDredd

Quote from: jomni on May 08, 2016, 09:28:58 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 08:41:05 AM
Quote from: jomni on May 08, 2016, 08:25:39 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 06:03:25 AM
The twist stick...and it is a challenge.

What do you use for racing?
Logitech Formula Force

Pedals can't be used for flight?

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 10:32:32 AM
They plug into the steering wheel. I've never tried having the steering wheel and the joystick plugged in at the same time but I can't imagine it would work.

I will have a try though

Well, what do you know. Having the steering wheel plugged in at the same time as the joystick did work and I was able to use the pedals as tail rotor controls. A lot of cables about though. One between the throttle and joystick and one to the computer, with a power one to the wheel, one going from the pedals to the wheel and another going to the computer.

A difference in controlled take off was noticeable immediately. Control of the aircraft was still difficult - as difficult as without the pedals, but that may be something that changes with practice. But take off had a noticeable reduction in difficulty.

Maybe pedals are the thing I should be looking at...though that does put paid to me getting a TrackIR with Pro clip.

It felt a whole lot more natural too!
Alba gu' brath

Asid

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 03:47:57 PM
Maybe pedals are the thing I should be looking at...though that does put paid to me getting a TrackIR with Pro clip.

It felt a whole lot more natural too!
Pedals for helos make a big difference.

The pro clip for the TrackIR is not a requirement. The standard hat clip works just as well. The pro clip is flimsy and the cables are annoying.

Regards
War in Pieces

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JudgeDredd

Quote from: Asid on May 08, 2016, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 03:47:57 PM
Maybe pedals are the thing I should be looking at...though that does put paid to me getting a TrackIR with Pro clip.

It felt a whole lot more natural too!
Pedals for helos make a big difference.

The pro clip for the TrackIR is not a requirement. The standard hat clip works just as well. The pro clip is flimsy and the cables are annoying.

Regards
I always seemed to have an issue with ambient light and the hat tracking kit. No matter what I did, it seemed to affect the normal Track IR...that's why I wanted a pro clip because I heard it was less affected by ambient light.

Also - I've had a TrackIR 4 twice now and didn't get on with it. It might have been the ambient light issue or just me not setting it up correctly or both....but regardless, I thought I should not revisit the problem a third time which is why I was going to give the pro a go....change one parameter (well, 2 as I would be getting a 5)

What is the difference between 4 and 5...apart from quite a few pounds?
Alba gu' brath

Yskonyn

Quote from: Asid on May 08, 2016, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 03:47:57 PM
Maybe pedals are the thing I should be looking at...though that does put paid to me getting a TrackIR with Pro clip.

It felt a whole lot more natural too!
Pedals for helos make a big difference.

The pro clip for the TrackIR is not a requirement. The standard hat clip works just as well. The pro clip is flimsy and the cables are annoying.

Regards

I disagree about that, Asid.
The tracking quality with the trackclip is much better over a much wider variety of light levels.
It is flimsy, though. No argument there.
"Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing.
However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore."

Yskonyn

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 09, 2016, 12:31:42 AM
Quote from: Asid on May 08, 2016, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 08, 2016, 03:47:57 PM
Maybe pedals are the thing I should be looking at...though that does put paid to me getting a TrackIR with Pro clip.

It felt a whole lot more natural too!
Pedals for helos make a big difference.

The pro clip for the TrackIR is not a requirement. The standard hat clip works just as well. The pro clip is flimsy and the cables are annoying.

Regards
I always seemed to have an issue with ambient light and the hat tracking kit. No matter what I did, it seemed to affect the normal Track IR...that's why I wanted a pro clip because I heard it was less affected by ambient light.

Also - I've had a TrackIR 4 twice now and didn't get on with it. It might have been the ambient light issue or just me not setting it up correctly or both....but regardless, I thought I should not revisit the problem a third time which is why I was going to give the pro a go....change one parameter (well, 2 as I would be getting a 5)

What is the difference between 4 and 5...apart from quite a few pounds?

I had the 4 for years and only recently switched to the 5. Reason I held off was that I couldn't believe it was worth the investment, but there was always one big annoyance with the 4; In DCS somehow I never was able to keep my view completely still without putting in a deadzone, which isn't an option if you want a steady view to the side anyway.
I can report that the 5 has a much more steady view and now I have no issues keeping the tracker pointed at what I want to look at.
Part of this might be optimized DCS engine since 1.5, part of it might be hardware specs related (framerate), but definately part of it is due to TIR 5 over the 4.
NaturalPoint even recommends lowering the sensitivity on the 5 back to 20 or so because its so accurate.

Wether that is worth the full price of a new unit if you already own the 4... Depends on how much you use it I guess. But if you ask me, I should have upgraded to the 5 earlier to save me some grey hairs. ;)
"Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing.
However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore."

JudgeDredd

I need to work out what's important....pedals or TrackIR. Both, imo, are important to fully enjoy all of DCS.

Both are possibly reasons why I don't play DCS as much as I'd like. Once I'm in, I enjoy it until I hit these same two issues....head movement (mouse, keyboard and stick hat buttons are all workarounds and sub par) and tail rotor control in helo's.

By the way Yskonyn - the "shaky" head issue of the TrackIR 4 in DCS you mentioned was one of the reasons (the main reason) I got rid of it. I just could not keep my head still enough to activate buttons...made it useless for me and I thought it was my head or a setup issue that I just couldn't nail. Then I thought it may well be the ambient light as I noticed that was an issue too. So it sounds like if I am going to go back to TrackIR I need 5 and Pro clip.

I would imagine I should go for the TrackIR first as pedals only really seem to be a necessity for Helo's and if push comes to shove I do have a work-around for the pedals.
Alba gu' brath

jomni

#312
Glad that my suggestion works. Though the feel of aircraft pedals differ from automobile pedals, it does simulate proper ergonomics and prevents you from using the twist method.

JudgeDredd

Indeed - thank you Jomni.

Do you use driving pedals or rudders pedals? I assume you use one as you flight sim so much?
Alba gu' brath

jomni

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 09, 2016, 04:34:55 AM
Indeed - thank you Jomni.

Do you use driving pedals or rudders pedals? I assume you use one as you flight sim so much?

No pedals. My HOTAS has a rocker on the throttle which is nice for rudder action. My yoke has paddles which is quite unique.