I presume this is just - Tank Crew thats been out for a while and nothing different
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1467120/IL2_Sturmovik_Tank_Crew__Clash_at_Prokhorovka/
Man it seems expensive - with no infantry - air or artillery just tanks ... I was thinking it may be worth it from a VR perspective - as an experience thing - but not sure...
Any opinions ?
If you peep the "IL2," thread on here, you can catch up on what general consensus is from the players of the game on this board.
Having said that - and hoping I didn't sound snarky there as I did not want to seem as such, I am an unabashed tread-head so I'm over the moon with the game. Would love a greater combined arms (infantry, off-board arty support, etc.) sort of thing, but it is what it is. If I have any opinion to offer, its that you should wait until it goes on sale before picking it up. 777 Studios runs a sale every 3 to 4 months it seems, and Christmas is right around the corner, so...
Quote from: Dammit Carl! on November 20, 2020, 12:56:46 PM
If I have any opinion to offer, its that you should wait until it goes on sale before picking it up. 777 Studios runs a sale every 3 to 4 months it seems, and Christmas is right around the corner, so...
That's going to be my tactic too. Been thinking about this one for a while, but it is a bit steep for a slight punt, and I've *got* to get the Battle of Normandy module as well.
@Zulu - there is definitely air involved, in both MP and SP.
I was thinking, eh, $60, unsure...
...then I realized it needs IL-2 to play, so I thought I should clarify here that this game costs US$110.
Not so much for me, I've already got IL-2, but $60 is a little steep for me right now on a game with no air threat or infantry yet. (Granted, air would be tantamount to a random kill, so for gameplay I can understand no air.)
Game goes on sale regularly, probably will be on sale for Christmas. If you drive tanks on mp servers you'll have air...piloted by players in il2s and Stukas trying to blow you up. They're also adding crewable AA so you can shoot back with more than small caliber mg.
Oh, right, I forgot the mp servers can overlap; that's certainly the way to go. I've played a lot more IL-2BoX on mp than I expected I would, much moreso than singleplayer.
Quote from: Zulu1966 on November 20, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
I presume this is just - Tank Crew thats been out for a while and nothing different
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1467120/IL2_Sturmovik_Tank_Crew__Clash_at_Prokhorovka/
Man it seems expensive - with no infantry - air or artillery just tanks ... I was thinking it may be worth it from a VR perspective - as an experience thing - but not sure...
Any opinions ?
No idea about VR. But the game definitely has air and artillery as well as AT guns and all sorts of support vehicles like half tracks. It does have people models, but only for crewed vehicles. Infantry "should" be coming but the latest comments from the devs seem to back off somewhat on those intentions:
What is the status of the promised infantry in tank crew? If it is released I assume they are in the finished product?
· Reply · 4d
Author
IL-2 Sturmovik
No infantry was not part of the initial product and never advertised as part of it. I have talked about it as a potential feature that we are inventing, so they are not in yet even though it is released. Released does not mean finished per se.
However check the statements around timestamp 1:10.
The VR experience in Tank Crew is fantastic. If feeling like you are actually in the commander's position in a Tiger sounds appealing, then I'd say its a must buy.
I'm holding off until this drops between $30-$40. I've done some IL2 tanking with the vanilla assets and I wasn't impressed - DEFINITELY not $70 Impressed
Steel Beasts has ruined most tanking experiences for me.
Also- I think DCS has good tank assets (WW2, even) and a much better scenario editor to create custom content.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 24, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
The VR experience in Tank Crew is fantastic. If feeling like you are actually in the commander's position in a Tiger sounds appealing, then I'd say its a must buy.
Yeah it is certainly the appeal. Though I dont use my headset nearly enough to probably justify the price so will likely wait till as others advise for a sale. Will definitely look to pick it up. Flight sims in a VR set are another world.
Did a little multiplayer tonight. I need to find a good server for this. Because most of my time was spent driving and then capturing. Which took literally 10-15mins on my own with the engine off twiddling my thumbs.
(https://i.imgur.com/lNKBd2a.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3AOpOOr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/mOvvY72.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Cs6pT6Z.png)
Des....I don't play this genre of game, but man it looks great...!
This game may get me to finally jump into VR. One thing it cannot recreate is the feeling of claustrophobia.
Quote from: Rayfer on April 04, 2021, 11:08:38 AM
Des....I don't play this genre of game, but man it looks great...!
I get you Rayfer. It is a very slow game to play. The old adage "hurry up and wait" comes to mind.
The terrain is definitely not the best, when it comes to looks. But it does the job.
Quote from: solops on April 04, 2021, 11:52:30 AM
This game may get me to finally jump into VR. One thing it cannot recreate is the feeling of claustrophobia.
I always felt more safe than claustrophobic in armoured vehicles. Even though they are just one bloody big target.
But yeah, I get that you don't mean it literally, you mean the smallness of the spaces you have to work in. Lucky we do not have 5D smell and fume simulation either.
Although again, I don't think it would be so bad. WW1 tanks though, whole different story.
I have to tell you as well. I find the German tank scopes so much easier to use than the Allied ones.
I'm going to have to take a closer look at Tank Crew. Honestly, this game keeps falling right off my radar. Lately I've been hankering to get into, and learn more about, ground warfare. I think this game might be the gateway game I've been looking for.
Toonces with regard to ground warfare. This game is like an old school sim. From a scenario creators perspective the AI is either static or flight simulator style triggered units or patrolling units. It's not like a strategy games AI which has the over all aim of winning the battle. Think "combat mission cmx2" style AI. So in terms of ground warfare you can get some tactical aspects down. But nothing major other than an experience of what it was like to be a tanker.
They are still working on infantry but this may never come. I think the engine would choke. The people models are meant for manning the flight simulator aspects crew more than anything else. AT guns, heavy machine gun emplacements etc and the like do have crews though.
Some things are missing which I do not think the engine could handle. Smoke grenade launchers are on some tanks but not modelled. These launchers could really save you from air attack in multiplayer. Cockpits are not clickable which is a shame but nothing in il2 is so it is expected. However seeing the interior parts moving as they work is amazing. It helps me seeing the moving parts just to understand how these machines actually worked. One really cool touch is the exhaust fan notification. When a round fires the fan comes on for a bit. You can fire with the tank engine turned off. I will have to take note if the fan runs off auxiliary power when I do this. Another major thing that is missing so to speak is detailed driving mechanics. You do not actually change gears yourself and the most you can do is limit the top gear to ensure more torque. This though does not let one experience stripping the German drive trains bare with bad gear changes and incorrect gears. It does not allow you to experience using a hammer in a T34 to change gears :P
In addition the community for the tank game is not what I would call strong. In the few games I played last night one server was playing up for the aircraft so some switched to tank warfare (they call it ground pounding) because the tanks don't seem to play up as much. So you get some flyboys that also play tanks as a nice change for them.
However their is a quick mission generator which got updated yesterday and there seem to be plenty of user made scenarios. The scenarios that come with the game do come in campaign format, however they are not linked to a career like the aircraft ones.
The fact that Tank Crew is mated with il2 flight simulator though I think is one of it's strengths but also a weakness. Because it does not have to stand on it's own. In fact shortly to emphasize this point, we will be getting the first AA truck simulated. Then we will be able to shoot at aircraft ourselves with a potent weapon. Previously the best weapon we had was a Sherman's roof mounted .50.... which I am yet to have a chance to try against low flying aircraft.
On the other hand without tank crew being very popular in comparison to the flyboy stuff, you will find the focus is on the aircraft features when it comes to the core engine. Even though tank crew was an outsourced project. This is why most maps will not get the only dedicated tank crew maps level of detail. That detail chugs aircraft players PCs when they fly over it apparently.
The game il2 tank crew is a stand alone game. However conversely if you get it on steam it is not stand alone. So watch out here.
Here are the tanks you get in game. For me in AUD it adds up to $10 a tank or so.
(https://i.imgur.com/App8Mvh.png)
Here is a list of the current keys to give you an idea of what you can and cannot do. I just noticed it's missing ~ for commander menu, which gives commands to your platoon.
(https://i.imgur.com/kSKUfst.jpg)
Me hanging out the side of the gunners hatch behind the shurtzen. Wierd.
(https://i.imgur.com/rPmkyFS.jpg)
Another view from the gunners hatch, how did I see so high? The gunner must have wiggled out a ways more.
(https://i.imgur.com/BIWTX73.png)
T-34 Station notes for the gunner. Compared to the German sites the Russian ones are much harder to use.
(https://i.imgur.com/TWWRZ40.png)
What should I bring? Steel road wheels. Surely the crew would like the comfy rubber ones. O0
(https://i.imgur.com/eVUAFEM.png)
German sites. So much easier to use than the allied stuff.
(https://i.imgur.com/VDYlBTy.png)
Me stuck in some sort of pot hole with a track on the other side out. Turning the tank engine off and opening the commander's hatch starts the crew working on repairs. Although it takes 9 minutes to repair one track!
(https://i.imgur.com/JlsOtrZ.jpg)
T-34 Drivers compartment. Tonnes of camera angles and zooming in and out you can do. Looks worse than it is.
(https://i.imgur.com/Uz4YnfK.png)
This guy is going to pull a muscle in his neck like this, looking around the hatch\shield.
(https://i.imgur.com/z2tZFlW.png)
Thanks, yeah I was looking at it more deeply last night on Steam. I'm an SP guy mainly and I don't think, after reading the details, that this game is what I'm looking for...certainly not at 80 clams. That's a bit beyond my trivial drop of money threshold for computer games.
Man alive I'd love to see something more akin to Falcon 4's dynamic campaign, but with tanks. If I could just really understand Steel Fury better...but the UI simply beffudles me.
Yeah I hear you with regard to the cost. It's what most people complain about. But there are so many products that cost a lot for the wargaming community. Because wargaming\war simulations are niche. Battlefront products, DCS Products, Matrix Games. Most of those modules are $60 and above. A lot of the time for a single aircraft in DCS's case.
Literally saw this crack off through the gunner site and fly off... looking outside later and I see factory primer!
(https://i.imgur.com/VQuBdt9.jpg)
^Time to upgrade to a Tiger?
I actually wonder how effective the remaining plate is modelled after this happens. Would it be half as thick now? I think so.
This is the first mission in the scripted campaign. I do think I probably will be upgraded to the Tiger at some point. I kinda enjoy being in the standard tanks though.
Knowing you are so vulnerable. I think the T-34 is more than a match for a MkIV.
(https://i.imgur.com/BVymUac.png)
FLASH SALE - TC at half price for those on the fence
I was about to dive into this but I got waylayed by Wizards and Warlords. What VR device do yall favor?
Well personally I do not have VR. I have a reasonable PC now but really an not that interested in VR. When the hololens style VR is common that is probably when I would be more interested. I have to interact with people in my house.
The enemy must have thought I was dead in this first campaign mission for the Russians. We were ordered to retreat, probably because I was trying to get my eye in for the Russian T-34 sights. However I decided to charge instead. My Tank squadron following me. The other 30 or so T-34s retreating. One of my the Tanks in my squadron was destroyed and my tank became disabled next to it. I could no believe my luck as the AI must have thought I was dead. The Tigers rolled past me and I took them out with side shots. Stopping the enemy advance and gaining a secondary objective completion. I'd say that is a first down for the Russians!
The tank that saved my life. Shielding me from the AI.
(https://i.imgur.com/PVBnVSK.png)
The view behind my tank
(https://i.imgur.com/u7vbVSn.png)
Commander\Gunners binoculars turned out of the turret. Tigers are wasted.
(https://i.imgur.com/SlP8hSH.png)
I guess I should have retreated when the secondary is to stop the tanks!
(https://i.imgur.com/5ZQJPKa.png)
Well. Tank Crew is 40% off in the spring sale now. Not as good a saving as the flash sale but still good value.
This was a steal at the flash sale price.
I would have got it at the flash price but I missed it :/
I just had a few friends commenting to me about Tank Crew.
One said:
"I played both campaigns of this game and was honestly disappointed. The script was made by a child, and no coordination whatsoever. I have had more immersion in Warthunder RB"
I replied:
I agree that the campaign system is not the greatest. It's typical flight simulation stuff
However War Thunder is generally tanks of mixed periods and generally of people rushing around fighting as individuals. RB rarely gets played in my experience.
War Thunder RB, I played a few of those and was not that immersed. Could not look around inside the tank or use tank commander binocs iirc.... It defo felt like I was reticle bound. In tank crew I would love to be able to jump out to do recon as well. Balance is the operative word for most things in war thunder. I don't know that I would even trust their RB (realistic battles) mode to represent the correct stats for tanks.
The other piped in and said that "The best tank experience so far I think is still post scriptum."
I replied that "With real people as infantry yes that experience is better. But in terms of being part of a simulated battlegroup doing an attack as well as having the interiors modelled and a lot of the subtle things like fans venting shell gases and the damage models presented, the things that can go wrong with the tank. The tank not just being a health bar... less so. You also have to have an actual player base that lasts to play, tank crew does not require a playerbase!"
Now the last mission I just played in Tank Crew was mission 3 in a Mark IV and I literally walked through it barely firing a shot. The 30 or so other Tanks in the mission did all the work for me. I think I killed one AT gun. I was carried pretty hard because I was tired and was just a little slow with most things. Realistic or what! :2funny:
There's probably better missions and campaigns made for tank crew by the community in the il2 box forums for mission builders.
Would be interesting if they added the career campaigns for tank crew like the planes have.
Did you guys know that anybody that owns il2 can help crew a Tank Crew owners tank?
Nice, I hadn't tested that.
Saw a review where they played on the Finnish dynamic server that had a mission that looked like battlefield with tank crew player capping flags as players in opposing tanks and planes try to stop them.
Might have to check that one out.
Quote from: Destraex on April 15, 2021, 06:09:39 PM
Did you guys know that anybody that owns il2 can help crew a Tank Crew owners tank?
:D :D :D :D
Finally a price for me to try it out, on sale for $27
https://il2sturmovik.com/store/tank-crew/
Jeez - I'll call as well. Let's see 'em TC
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 03, 2021, 02:31:41 PM
Finally a price for me to try it out, on sale for $27
https://il2sturmovik.com/store/tank-crew/
Grab it!!!
Unfortunately, "This is a keyless non-Steam product". I guess I should have bought IL-2 from the company store... my bad.
Quote from: Millipede on September 04, 2021, 03:28:15 PM
Unfortunately, "This is a keyless non-Steam product". I guess I should have bought IL-2 from the company store... my bad.
That explains why it is not on sale in Steam.
I hate when publishers pull that Steam / non-Steam stuff....
I did buy it but haven't figured out how to play it yet/). Guess I need to watch some videos or something unless I missed the tutorial
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 04, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
I did buy it but haven't figured out how to play it yet/). Guess I need to watch some videos or something unless I missed the tutorial
The key commands take some getting used to.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 04, 2021, 04:53:47 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 04, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
I did buy it but haven't figured out how to play it yet/). Guess I need to watch some videos or something unless I missed the tutorial
The key commands take some getting used to.
I finally solved that issue with an Elgato Stream Deck.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on September 04, 2021, 05:08:22 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 04, 2021, 04:53:47 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 04, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
I did buy it but haven't figured out how to play it yet/). Guess I need to watch some videos or something unless I missed the tutorial
The key commands take some getting used to.
I finally solved that issue with an Elgato Stream Deck.
Interesting. How did you configure it? Care to share the profile?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 04, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on September 04, 2021, 05:08:22 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 04, 2021, 04:53:47 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 04, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
I did buy it but haven't figured out how to play it yet/). Guess I need to watch some videos or something unless I missed the tutorial
The key commands take some getting used to.
I finally solved that issue with an Elgato Stream Deck.
Interesting. How did you configure it? Care to share the profile?
I basically just set it up as a button box and wrote keypress macros with Bar Raider's Super Macro.
The part I'm not done with is making some good icons that fit.
As soon as I finish with it I'll share it. Right now I've been pushing harder to get a good profile for the aircraft that I'm comfortable with. It's a lot harder to get the plane set up than it was with the tanks.
Oh, and another helpful peripheral I just added is the Blackhog Explorer. Can't recommend it enough.
It's great for both air and armor. I have it set up so it's how I handle complex engine management on the aircraft, and then when I go to the tank I have alternate assignments so I can do things with it like gunnery fine adjustment and radio.
Great device, but fair warning if any of you simmers want to pick one up, make sure you use DHL Express. My box sat in IPZ Frankfurt for over a month before it finally made its way to the States because they accidently shipped it standard (Nice dudes though, when they realized the mistake they gave me free shipping).
Quote from: SirAndrewD on September 04, 2021, 05:49:58 PM
Oh, and another helpful peripheral I just added is the Blackhog Explorer. Can't recommend it enough.
It's great for both air and armor. I have it set up so it's how I handle complex engine management on the aircraft, and then when I go to the tank I have alternate assignments so I can do things with it like gunnery fine adjustment and radio.
Great device, but fair warning if any of you simmers want to pick one up, make sure you use DHL Express. My box sat in IPZ Frankfurt for over a month before it finally made its way to the States because they accidently shipped it standard (Nice dudes though, when they realized the mistake they gave me free shipping).
They are nice, but I already have too many button boxes. Not sure where the heck I would mount it.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 04, 2021, 07:06:37 PM
They are nice, but I already have too many button boxes. Not sure where the heck I would mount it.
That's my increasing problem. My setup is growing and I'm running out of room to place it all.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on September 04, 2021, 05:33:27 PM
The part I'm not done with is making some good icons that fit.
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/search/?tags=stream%20deck
DCS users have uploaded their Stream Deck profiles with many ready to use icons included.
If you look around more free icons are to be found e.g. https://visualsbyimpulse.com/store/?product_category=stream-deck-icons (Free packs of steam deck icons. To get the packs for free, click on the Add To Card - Free button, and then you need to checkout to get access to the free icons)
Quote from: Pete Dero on September 05, 2021, 04:24:26 AM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on September 04, 2021, 05:33:27 PM
The part I'm not done with is making some good icons that fit.
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/search/?tags=stream%20deck
DCS users have uploaded their Stream Deck profiles with many ready to use icons included.
If you look around more free icons are to be found e.g. https://visualsbyimpulse.com/store/?product_category=stream-deck-icons (Free packs of steam deck icons. To get the packs for free, click on the Add To Card - Free button, and then you need to checkout to get access to the free icons)
Oooh yes. I have pretty much every one of those I downloaded for my Stream Deck.
Some didn't work out of the box even downloading the plugins. I'm not the best programmer but I've been working to get them all functional.
I'm less obsessed with using the Stream Deck on DCS as IL2. With the fully clickable cockpit in the non Flaming Cliffs planes DCS is a lot easier to just have the HOTAS run the show with cockpit mouse interaction.
With DCS I mostly use the Stream Deck to bind simple, universal aircraft quick binds like landing gear, startup sequence and SOI.
I've also gotten into the habit of using MOBO mice for DCS, et al. They typically come with three interchangeable side plates and one of them has 12 buttons on it. I tend to use them to mimic the function keys on the keyboard, as well as the esc key. Makes life so much easier.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81QjQWJf4pL._AC_SX679_.jpg)
Some pretty impressive damage modeling...
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/245001617_2996420100686956_4500685469888644096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=7CWtoYKiclIAX8_Y9A0&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=4931b5dd8671927822a9511cf1deadac&oe=6168BC89)
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/245077128_2996419987353634_8468151505285705453_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=TS67IrxqMYIAX-OCCva&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=d61e2e7ecd16e9f933525c22b33dc9f2&oe=616927BA)
I can almost feel the impact looking at those.
That is impressive. :o
Gotta seriously dip my toes into IL2 tank-time.
I also have to get back into this. Been into DCS a little more lately though.
What a hilarious time tonight as I drove for an hour in a Panther. Had to hide in trees to avoid a player in an aircraft. Apparently Tanks manned by players are gold to the majority aircraft populations in the il2 servers. He circled for 20 minutes trying to find me. Somebody was waiting for me outside of il2 by then so I drove to the nearest town and got killed by the defences? Or was it that aircraft, hard to tell on that server as they prevent you from knowing.
Then in another server that was a much smaller map, tried the German 20mm flak and shot one down first go, then proceeded to die a lot as 20 Allied players circled 5 axis ones. I ended up burling it down the road missing my engine cover which got shot off and bleeding heavily. Late was aircraft like tempests vs mid war light flak. Hard case man. Hard.
I will basically need the cover of an entire squadron when in a tank. OR 10 players in 20mm light flak half tracks HAHA!
(https://i.imgur.com/0X9nlkC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/R5zziO7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Bf6yjRV.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/seDRtuW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lIzUXvb.png)
Quote from: Destraex on November 04, 2021, 11:07:23 AM
I will basically need the cover of an entire squadron when in a tank. OR 10 players in 20mm light flak half tracks HAHA!
Sounds like a right Groggy tank night (the 10 peeps with AA guns, that is).
This server had me capturing flags and fighting AI tanks. Those tanks were amazing shots, one shot hit me telling me I was being attacked and the second killed me. This was from the line of trees past the road. Probably over 2km away. They were in Shermans.
(https://i.imgur.com/Oa2J881.png)
Revenge
(https://i.imgur.com/NnBcwId.png)
Drove for 15mins just to be able to destroy some enemy airfield assets. These AA guns are fearsome if they notice you.
(https://i.imgur.com/bkfQNKZ.png)
Parked myself in an enemy aircraft prep bay for a rest after a long drive. :)
(https://i.imgur.com/2oUcY0j.png)
Forward Airfield assets
(https://i.imgur.com/4SkPaJ8.png)
Hid in an Aircraft Hangar. Being Stalked by Russian tanks.
(https://i.imgur.com/IctbL1r.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/pjdpJm3.png)
Cool pictures, I might have to get this one day,
I am a little perturbed at how easy it seems to be in il2 to kill Tanks. I remembered everything I had read on ww2 suggesting that bombs rarely killed tanks and were generally just not accurate enough to do so. Recently I posted on the il2 forums about the size of the bombs needed to kill a tank because I thought that might be the issue. Now I think it just may be that the accuracy in this "simulator" for bombs is just not simulated enough? I am also actually wondering if il2 physics for weapons attacking tanks from the air is hugely more simplified than weapons on the ground. As in if you get a near miss and some force hits the tank it's an auto kill.
Key take aways as to why Bombers were not used as tank killing weapons:
*
Bombs - only 5% landed within 140m of the target
*
Rockets - 89% within 100m but still needed a direct hit to kill a Tank (presumably as bombs did)
*
Guns - 32 out of 100 bullets on target. The most accurate and therefore efficient weapon at the right calibre.[/li][/list]
So now that we have established that unless you are using a Gun armed specialised anti tank aircraft with a gun large enough to kill a tank, that rocket armed aircraft would be much more accurate than bombs and therefore the preferred tank killing weapon;
On a captured Panther that is static and painted so pilots could see it with no AA fire or other distractions like weather and dust or cover;
* Accuracy was .5% for rocket armed aircraft so much less for bomb armed aircraft
* Therefore 140 rockets would be needed for a 50% chance of a hit.
* Therefore statistically you need 18 Typhoons to fire on one tank to kill that tank.[/li][/list]
But the crew will be killed with any near misses right?
According to this video if the Crew did not bail and stayed with the Veterans inside they had a VERY good chance of surviving anything but a direct hit. Aside from this video a friend last night claimed that he had read of ww2 tanks being tipped upside down by blasts and still getting out afterwards no problem.
il2 Tank Crew has bombs killing me very accurately usually by aircraft that are below 100m high. Why their own blast did not kill them would be interesting to me. What was the safe recommended height for level bombing in a fighter bomber in ww2?
Another thing we apparently do not have data on that would be interesting would be about how effective dive bombing was against all of these other methods. It seems to be bundled in with bombing in general above. Given how hard it was for dive bombers in the pacific to hit a carrier, generally whole squadrons went in and only came away with one or two hits, I guess we can assume that the famed Stuka was not as good at killing tanks as one would think. I wonder what their height for dropping was supposed to be so that they did not get destroyed by the blast or were not able to pull out under.
One thing is clear about il2 and that is that morale for the aircraft and the tanker is not something covered by the game mechanics. Everybody wants to be a hero and believes they would be brave under fire. So our pixel air crew and tank crew do not suffer suppression and do not feel the pressure that real crews would under fire. In il2 we are all veteran crews, especially the AI. This makes a huge difference to accuracy. If I think about it, the tanks do get rocked when hit so that it takes a while to stabilise the gun again against other tanks, the aircraft. I do not know as I have not played them in years. I expect that if they get hit the effects will pull them off their aim right away. Do near misses by flak knock their aim around?
Another key factor would be the physics of the bomb drop. Do most servers have no wind, no physics based on the aircraft airframe affecting release according to airframe drift and bounce as they release? Instrumentation malfunction affects or even the bombs themselves not being of perfect construction at the factory.
How do we achieve the less than 0.5% direct hit ratio that is apparently realistic for bomb armed aircraft in game?
Good comments, I wonder if someone has any information from Rudel in his books? I have them on the shelf, maybe look later.
Interesting, I play Battlefield 5, get killed by a me109, quite easily but that game is totally unrealistic
Interesting content Des. For more info what books would recommend? I am a casual WWII ETO armor dork. Very interested in the rockets. I have not read or learned much on their use in ground attack in WWII. Would love to learn more.
I would love to get this game as well but it looks fairly complex and would take me a long time to learn. What would you say about that? I haven't played any tank sim in a really long time but I miss it and love the subject.
Rudel with his 37mm cannon mounted on each wing of his stuka firing tungsten AP, scored the most ground kills. There was a reason why he was shot down so many times, flying low and slow to get those cannon on target was extremely dangerous but effective.
Agree skopp he was one weapon, I like having him in panzer Corp
Quote from: Gusington on November 09, 2021, 07:34:48 AM
Interesting content Des. For more info what books would recommend? I am a casual WWII ETO armor dork. Very interested in the rockets. I have not read or learned much on their use in ground attack in WWII. Would love to learn more.
I would love to get this game as well but it looks fairly complex and would take me a long time to learn. What would you say about that? I haven't played any tank sim in a really long time but I miss it and love the subject.
The only book I have that references this sort of thing is "How to kill a panther, by Craig Moore". It only has about 3 pages on the tests done on the Panther from the video I linked. I don't know of any books that concentrate on ww2 tank hunting aircraft that used rockets specifically.
In the words of Sir Henry Tizard with regard to bomb aircraft as anti tank platforms:
"it soon became apparent that guns and their contemporary ammunition were only capable of dealing with soft-skinned and lightly armoured vehicles and that the weight of effort required to damage a tank with conventional bombs was far too great."
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Research/RAF-Historical-Society-Journals/Journal_45_Seminar_conventional_weapons.pdf
Here is another few videos by the same author on GUN armed tank hunting aircraft as well as rocket armed if you are interested in those. This guy is great as a source as he actually goes into the german archives which I think is fairly hard to do and reads the actual reports. So we get German language reports translated and filtered for his English videos. Unfortunately he does not speak russian I don't think, so he cannot do the same for their archives on this stuff.
Quote from: Gusington on November 09, 2021, 07:34:48 AM
Interesting content Des. For more info what books would recommend? I am a casual WWII ETO armor dork. Very interested in the rockets. I have not read or learned much on their use in ground attack in WWII. Would love to learn more.
I would love to get this game as well but it looks fairly complex and would take me a long time to learn. What would you say about that? I haven't played any tank sim in a really long time but I miss it and love the subject.
As to your question about the complexity of the stand alone il2 tank crew module. Because we are dealing with a tank simulation, it's very simple really. A little like playing world of tanks except you have to aim properly with a realistic sight.
General Gameplay:So basically it's WASD for moving and the mouse for turning the turret and firing. Apart from that changing stations is ctrl-C. that's 99% of your in game controls right there. Those controls are the same as playing a first person shooter like Call of Duty, just slower.
Startup:When you start the game, you start in the drivers seat and press E to start the engine. Ctrl-C to change to the next station, the gunners station. Press T to unlock the travel lock on the main gun and SHift-T to lean into the gunsight to see the reticle. Ctrl-C to change to the next station, the commanders station. Press right alt-c to open the hatch and turn out. OK startup is done for mine. You're ready to go.
General MovementI just use WASD to drive from the commanders station, the driver takes care of gear changes so I do not have to do a thing. Ctrl-5 to switch to commanders binoculars every now and then to take a closer look at things. I press alt-c to turn in and shift 1 (or is it 2) to switch to gunner station on contact. I have scroll set to zoom more to the sight. You can adjust the German sight triangle up down left and right but I generally just have my mouse set to adjust up and down for range and use the smaller triangles for lead without adjusting the sight left and right.
Oh and I have my HOTAS throttle set to movement so I can relax during long drives on multiplayer servers and just make left and right adjustments as needed. Sometimes I read something else outside the game when long straight stretches allow lol.
Pretty Easy for a Simulator:As you can see. The basics are pretty easy for a simulator. Not much is too complex in what is essentially a driving sim. I mean their are tonnes of views like zooming to the copula windows inside the commanders copula and looking out the side window as the driver and perhaps even opening it if you want. Firing flares from the commanders flare gun and such. But none of these are necessary. You are basically left to concentrate on gunnery skill and tactics. As it should be.
Did I mention that if you own il2 BOS you can crew tanks without owning the module. You just need somebody that does own the module to allow you to be part of his\her crew.
What does it have over World of Tanks and War Thunder Tanks?There are a few single player tank simulators on the market that would probably be ok like Steel Armor: Blaze of War or Steel Beasts Pro PE, but I do not know of any current ww2 Tank Simulators apart from il2 Tank Crew. World of Tanks and War Thunder tanks are grindy games that make you play "matches" against ahistorical match ups with no relation to reality of ww2 combat. You are simply rolling around on your own and playing as an individual sniper trying to achieve points for what is essentially an online sport.
il2 Tank Crew on the other hand offers old school simulation and has the advantages of:
* Huge maps made for aircraft to fight on.
* Single player short campaigns that have supporting weapons and objectives. You are part of an army and attacking like a real army.
* Map Editor and an array of player made missions to download. The ability to make your own missions.
* Concentration on the Kursk period. So no mixed experimental tanks and modern vs early tank matches like in war thunder.
* The ability to co-operate with a fully fleshed out flight simulation community in multiplayer. A lot of multiplayer servers have tank spawns near (15mins) the front.
* 10 tanks to concentrate on that are done fairly well. People complain about the price, but it's on special at 50% off and when you divide by the number of tanks and compare to other simulators..... well: T-34-76, KV-1s. M4A2 "Sherman", SU-122, SU-152, PzKpfw III Ausf.M, PzKpfw IV Ausf.G, PzKpfw V Ausf.D "Panther". PzKpfw VI Ausf.H1 "Tiger" and Sd. Kfz. 184 "Ferdinand".
What does il2 Tank Crew lack:* Infantry apart from a few soldiers and support vehicle crew. The devs announced infantry in some form years ago but nothing has been seen yet and I am not confident any solution they do have when it finally arrives will be any good.
* It is a small community mostly made up of flyboys who play tanks occasionally. But does have some hard core tankers.
* I suspect because tank crew is a 3rd party module of a flight sim, that it is second fiddle to the main game. However they have released two anti aircraft vehicles and two new collectors vehicles have been announced. So it's not completely dead.
* It does not have the greatest graphics. A good map can make the tanks look amazing but then some maps have them looking strangely horrible. Not sure why, it's like they are sometimes drawn as map assets at low res. Most of the time they look great though... just not cutting edge.
What is the next best thing?I think Post Scriptum tank play would be the next best thing. But the maps are small and the game is multiplayer only.
Wow, above and beyond the call of duty on the last two posts, Des, thank you very much. And I do own Battle of Stalingrad! The one thing holding me back here is the 80.00 price point. But the next time it goes on sale I'm in, it's been way too long for me. And never, actually, if I count WWII armor.
I am going to do some further research on WWII tank busting aviation and rockets specifically. There's got to be something.
You're welcome mate. I am off work with a broken toe for the next few days so have had some time to post a little less off the cuff.
By the way 53 minutes ago;
"Attention Pilots and Tankers,
The weather is changing in Moscow and Las Vegas, and that means it's time to fire up Sturmovik for some cozy aerial combat action! So we have brought back the IL-2 Promo Codes for a limited time! They are good only in the Official IL-2 Webstore!
The codes are good through Nov. 23rd, 2021.
We have put two unique codes in your IL-2 User Account profile.
They are good for 50% Off all products except - C-47, BON, FC2 and Dover series products."
^Quite enticing...I like to have my IL2 stuff in Steam, though. Winter sales are just around the corner. Thinking of Flying Circus as well.
Quote from: Gusington on November 10, 2021, 09:38:40 AM
^Quite enticing...I like to have my IL2 stuff in Steam, though. Winter sales are just around the corner. Thinking of Flying Circus as well.
If you like MP get Flying Circus and vol II. It's amazing.
It's even better in VR.
^I am not an MPer. Worth it for SP?
Quote from: Gusington on November 11, 2021, 03:11:54 PM
^I am not an MPer. Worth it for SP?
Not yet. FC II will have an SP career mode on release but it hasn't been implemented.
Flying Circus has a couple of fun canned campaigns but they're not a lot of time investment.
If you're getting it now you're getting it for MP and early access to the new crates.
^Thanks. I'll wait for that SP career mode.
The IL2 engine recently released the advanced quick mission builder. The idea was to creat a bridge between the full editor and the quick mission system. It's built off the original campaign engine that the community wanted replaced with the current career system. It seems that tank crew can be used with the advanced mission builder to increase more sp content for tank crew.
I actually really like the tank crew addition, I agree with des, it's the best representation of WWII tanks at the moment. We could use more content though, the career mode would be fun in the tanks.
I had a pretty focused run of doing tanks in hell let loose, and if you get a good crew in your tank it's epic. If you try to solo the tank or have idiots on board it's a nitemare. This made me revisit tank crew and just love being able to have the choice of diving with wasd keys while operating the gun or have multi crew players, not just be stuck with multi crew.. I really wish this had been implemented in HLL or post scriptum.
Also the German gun sights have keys for adjusting the sights for range, that little extra bit realism is really cool. Makes distance shooting very enjoyable.
Quote from: Gusington on November 11, 2021, 04:01:32 PM
^Thanks. I'll wait for that SP career mode.
Or just go with Wolff:)
The flying part is better in FC. Once they implement the career system in FC, the sp will be on par with woff.
Quote from: Skoop on November 11, 2021, 06:34:12 PM
The flying part is better in FC. Once they implement the career system in FC, the sp will be on par with woff.
Not sure, maybe, I enjoy Woff for a really good single player experience. Flying part is just fine for me, but I am no expert
I own both, woff's career mode is really good. Main reason the flying part is better in FC is that it's just more recent engine.
Still plenty of immersion in the woff experience if that's more a priority than graphics and flight sim tech.
It's been a while since I checked in with WoFF...I should visit their site again to drool.
If you have Rise of Flight, I'd hold off on getting Flying Circus vol I unless you just want MP. The game contents are quite similar so, with Flying Circus all you're really getting is a somewhat updated graphics engine and somewhat different damage modelling (a bit worse than what was available in RoF IMO. Things are very robust now. It takes a lot of rounds to knock down a plane unless you get a pilot or engine hit and taking out a train engine is very, very difficult.) You get far fewer available planes and only one map with no SP campaign. Flying Circus vol II adds some more planes (still no Sopwith Pup though...it's my fave from Rof) and a bigger map but they're asking a lot for it and it's still a work in progress.
LOOK! A ww2 tank interior....
Almost finished reading Panzer Destroyer, Memoirs of a red army tank commander by Vasiliy Krysov. In this book one part especially stuck me. That was that when they encountered a convoy of Trucks and half tracks in their two su85 tank destroyers, they chose to crush most of them or knock them off the road, only using their guns sparingly. Not something you can really do in Tank Crew I do not think. If it was DCS you might be able to.
(https://i.imgur.com/i3yUfil.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/1xk2FvB.png)
That looks almost as unpleasant as I imagine it being.
In Combat Mission Afrika Korp you could run-over things and destroy them. I did that in the scenario Fort Capuzzo as the Brits, using my Matildas to smash Italian guns and had a heel-of-a-lot of fun doing it too. O0
Quote from: Gusington on November 15, 2021, 07:20:00 PM
That looks almost as unpleasant as I imagine it being.
Surely it's just like a huge armoured weekender camper van where you hang inside with your best mates while shooting bigger guns and running your big Cadillac engine than almost everybody else. What more could you want?
Heh 'big Cadillac engine'...I wonder if the average mileage could have been anything better than 4-5 mpg.
Do not fear. I am sure solar tanks are being worked on.
That would be impressive. A solar-powered submarine would be even more impressive.
With armored screen doors.
Did my first run with Tank Crew in VR now that my prescription lenses are in.
Man, it's almost even more impressive than flying.
Sadly though, I'm having a lot of problems getting TC to accept my mapped controls for my Virpil setup. Very odd and it's made it impossible for me to really dig into it.
Anyone else have TC not talking Joystick input? Never was a problem with my older sticks.
I have just learnt what the small orange symbol means next to a lot of my controls. If you hover over it, it tells you what controls are conflicting. I have a lot of conflicts to fix in my tank controls. They seem to overlap a lot with aircraft controls. But the ones that really matter when they are conflicting are the general controls like camera ones I think.
Quote from: Destraex on November 22, 2021, 05:07:04 PM
I have just learnt what the small orange symbol means next to a lot of my controls. If you hover over it, it tells you what controls are conflicting. I have a lot of conflicts to fix in my tank controls. They seem to overlap a lot with aircraft controls. But the ones that really matter when they are conflicting are the general controls like camera ones I think.
Aha, I guess that's what it is. It wasn't an issue pre VR as I used my HOTAS less with the tanks.
That's going to be a touch of a pickle but the Virpil has enough buttons I should be able to get it where there's no conflicts.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on November 22, 2021, 01:50:59 AM
Did my first run with Tank Crew in VR now that my prescription lenses are in.
Man, it's almost even more impressive than flying.
Sadly though, I'm having a lot of problems getting TC to accept my mapped controls for my Virpil setup. Very odd and it's made it impossible for me to really dig into it.
Anyone else have TC not talking Joystick input? Never was a problem with my older sticks.
I just swapped to turret control via joystick. You need to find the option to swap tank control from mouse to joystick under input controls... then go to your key mappings and add Joystick 1 or 0 manually.
(https://i.imgur.com/1TRywYH.png)
Quote from: Destraex on November 22, 2021, 05:43:14 PM
I just swapped to turret control via joystick. You need to find the option to swap tank control from mouse to joystick under input controls... then go to your key mappings and add Joystick 1 or 0 manually.
(https://i.imgur.com/1TRywYH.png)
Yeah, I did that as well and it had no issues. It's the throttle I was getting problems with. I'm using it to control positions/hatches/views and they're not working. After work I'm going to get in there non-VR and futz with it until it works.
Good stuff. It's why I love clickable cockpits, which this does not have.
The following vehicles have been announced as new pre-orders for il2..... I like them. Although a Churchill is going to be walking speeds all the way across the front in multiplayer...
- Churchill Mk.IV Heavy Tank
- StuG III Ausf.G Mobile Assault Gun
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/75629-announcing-the-churchill-mkiv-tank-stug-iii-ausfg-mobile-assault-gun-and-iar-8081-pre-orders/
Now we need to discuss Churchills and their 6pdr gun killing Tiger and Panthers.
(https://i.imgur.com/HWcykoY.jpg)
^The StuG will get me to take the plunge here.
Yep. STug is one of my all time favourite armoured vehicles but so is the Churchill. I think the Churchill is a bit of an unsung hero actually.
^Me too with the StuG. I want to learn more about the Churchill. I didn't realize it served for that many years after WWII was over.
StuG life, yo.
:D
Quote from: Gusington on December 01, 2021, 08:27:13 PM
^The StuG will get me to take the plunge here.
It's tempting, but if you're the type of player looking for SP related content then I'd suggest avoiding it at all costs.
But if MP is your thing then I'd say go for it, like ASAP. Just be aware that the IL-2 devs have no intention of providing any further single-player content for the TC addon outside that of demo missions.
Quote from: Gusington on December 04, 2021, 08:08:29 PM
:D
True. You will be relying on community made missions from the mission maker or community servers. Some community servers are coop.
SGN_Neun hosts a tanks coop server but it's locked I think because he wants some decent peeps in there that will role play a bit I guess. THey do missions every Sunday in tanks with missions he has made and hosted. There is another server (or two) that do some pretty good tank missions, short and sweet.
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/75425-combined-arms-missions/
Here are the tank missions that the community has made:
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/135-missions-and-campaigns/
Dammit. Thanks. How long until there is SP content worth playing?
Quote from: Gusington on December 06, 2021, 09:14:40 AM
Dammit. Thanks. How long until there is SP content worth playing?
From all indications I've seen there won't be any from the developers.
The devs purpose for TC is to enhance the MP battlefield. Anything that's coming SP is going to come from the community in the form of mods, and there are good ones out there.
Right now?
Quote from: Gusington on December 06, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
Right now?
Full on mods? There are a lot in work but none of the big ones are out yet as far as I know. However there are campaigns and missions and the Easy Mission Generator to provide some SP content.
The Devs did ask a while ago for Mission/Campaign modders to reach out to them for future ideas for TC expansion, but that was over a year ago now. Not much indication that much came of that. Same with the long ago tease of adding infantry of some sort.
Maybe I'll grab it on sale then...single player missions and campaigns, even if there are not a huge amount, could make it worth it if they're well done.
Quote from: Gusington on December 06, 2021, 02:32:24 PM
Maybe I'll grab it on sale then...single player missions and campaigns, even if there are not a huge amount, could make it worth it if they're well done.
You can find quite a few of them here:
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/135-missions-and-campaigns/
A lot of TC content in there.
The mods in development for TC are here:
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/142-mods/
Check them out. There's quite a lot of feedback in the threads.
I do play MP but I have found the amount of SP content available to be enough to scratch the itch.
^You're the best, thanks!
I personally feel that TC is worth having for anyone interested in WWII armor. It is one of the few games out there that lets you play with tanks with any degree of authenticity and it is a good game. In VR, I feel like the generally good experience is dramatically elevated.
Yeah, I actually enjoy the Tank Crew VR experience more than the flight portion of IL2.
Having the full tank interior modeled and being able to do things like lean into vision slits while buttoned up adds a whole new dimension.
I think it's worth it. Content wise, minus infantry, it's got as much or more going for it now than Steel Fury or T34 vs. Tiger did back in the day when they had their vanilla releases.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on December 06, 2021, 03:31:44 PM
Yeah, I actually enjoy the Tank Crew VR experience more than the flight portion of IL2.
Having the full tank interior modeled and being able to do things like lean into vision slits while buttoned up adds a whole new dimension.
I think it's worth it. Content wise, minus infantry, it's got as much or more going for it now than Steel Fury or T34 vs. Tiger did back in the day when they had their vanilla releases.
True, but Steel Fury, modded with ITM. Just wow! It's pretty spectacular.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 06, 2021, 04:04:48 PM
True, but Steel Fury, modded with ITM. Just wow! It's pretty spectacular.
Yeah, that's very true. It's in a class all its own.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on December 06, 2021, 03:31:44 PM
Yeah, I actually enjoy the Tank Crew VR experience more than the flight portion of IL2.
Having the full tank interior modeled and being able to do things like lean into vision slits while buttoned up adds a whole new dimension.
I think it's worth it. Content wise, minus infantry, it's got as much or more going for it now than Steel Fury or T34 vs. Tiger did back in the day when they had their vanilla releases.
Sir AndrewD, I just setup my trackIR for tank crew (involved me running steam as admin was all) and leaning is fine. But Your still using keys to actually change views and open slits right? Leaning only seems to go so far when I am in the commanders cupola for instance, is there a way I wonder to setup the controls so that their is a transition to the closer view?
For you handful of VR tank bubbas...
https://store.steampowered.com/app/905970/Steel_Crew/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/905970/Steel_Crew/)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1008950/Armored_Front_Tiger_Command/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1008950/Armored_Front_Tiger_Command/)
Looks like .50 cal machine guns will be able to take out Tank main guns now. .50 quad will be deadly :P
Hoping that this will only be at very close ranges and will be a fluke in most instances. You can tell a simulator by the number of possible flukes that may happen.
Ground vehicle changes
50. KV-1s and T-34 mod. 43: the interior visual model of the gun in the mantle area has been improved;
51. KV-1s machine gun ammunition corrected (coaxial MG 25 magazines, rear MG 9 magazines, bow MG 15 magazines);
52. The overestimated combat survivability of guns, guidance mechanisms, electrical systems and radio stations has been reduced on all tanks, both detailed and simple. Tank guns can be disabled by an AP round hit of a similar caliber or multiple hits of .50 and larger caliber AP bullets;
53. MG firing sound correctly stops when a detailed tank is destroyed;
54. AI-controlled tank and aircraft turret MGs sounds corrected;
55. Some AI-controlled tanks and AFVs will fire their coaxial MGs (Humber, SdKfz-222);
56. A game and dedicated server crash bug that could happen randomly in multiplayer missions with A LOT of ground vehicles has been found and fixed;