Combat Mission status

[A Canadian Cat]

I'm thinking about finally buying one of the WWII CM games, and would like some opinions... The Normandy game appeals the most to me, but I'm wondering if the scenarios and campaigns are better in the later ones since they had more experience with the tools and had more customer feedback.   Any thoughts?

<snip>I would get what you are the most interested in.

I completely agree with MOS:96B2P. There is so much content available the best starting place is the theatre you are most interested in.

[A Canadian Cat]

I always have lots of ideas for scenarios for CM.
But the tools have a pretty steep learning curve and the time it takes to create a map, generate AI plans and finish up is a BIG task.
I have deep respect for CM scenario designers! It must be like a hobby on its own.

Someone mentioned master maps earlier - their existence is a direct result of feedback and a desire to make it easier for players to make scenarios. BFC know it is challenging to make scenarios. That is why the provide briefing templates - to give people a leg up on creating good graphics, why they created master maps - now you can totally skip map making if you want and why they commissioned a tutorial on scenario design - originally a series of forum posts (http://community.battlefront.com/topic/109190-the-sheriff-of-oosterbeek-%E2%80%93-a-scenario-design-daraar/) and now a PDF that ships with the game "A Scen Design AAR PDF Book".

[Michael Dorosh]

It is in Action on Lanzerath Ridge (part of CM Final Blitzkrieg) since it represents the beginning of the ambush that started the fighting in that area that day.

I did a short video "preview" of the scens in CM:RT and CM:FB and while I didn't play many of them I did have occasion to open every scenario and screenshot the map. As I did so I was quickly impressed by the quality of the maps overall, which I should have mentioned before going into my examples of historical inaccuracies. I'll also add the quick battle maps are also very well done and provide some good flexibility to the game.

Lanzerath Ridge I remember in particular, I remember the heavy weapons on the gentle slope overlooking the road. The maps have come a long way from CMX1, particularly in the hands of the experienced designers who know some of the tricks for squeezing out that added bit of realism.

[Michael Dorosh]

I'm pretty sure I have played some scenarios made by you Michael Dorosh............. I think Panzergeist is yours?  Very cool.   

Yes, that is mine, I appreciate the comments. I can only claim enthusiastic amateur status, as Yskonyn points out, ideas are easier to come by than time to turn it into reality in the editor.

Yes, George MC is still building scenarios and campaigns.  I have found all the scenarios and campaigns made by him very good.  I think his last independent release was the KG Von Schroif campaign?  It is available at the Scenario Depot III for CM Red Thunder.  There might also have been something else he did after that or maybe a REDUX of something.  Hard to keep track.  I know he is currently working on another new campaign which is also for CMRT. 

This campaign covers a short and sustained period of combat operations taking place over a period of less than 72 hours, in Poland, on the Eastern Front in early August 1944. Although fictional it is heavily based on actual events.
In the campaign you take the role of 1 Kompanie Commander Hauptmann Hans von Schroif, of the 3rd Panzer Division's (Known as the Berlin Bear division – etc.......

Combatintman continues to crank out scenarios based on real world operations.  To include Neptune Spear which he made for CM Shock Force.  All those independently made scenarios for Shock Force 1 still work in Shock Force 2.  A ton of content. 

So yes, looking at the Scenario Depot III is also a good idea.         

Good news for the community, thanks.

[Michael Dorosh]

So, I am part of that team now and cannot make any official comments. All I will say is, I do not believe the number of people making official scenarios has decreased it certainly hasn't while I have been involved. All scenarios get more than one or two test runs. Scenario designers definitely do take comments to heart that are made on the BFC forums.

I always found that the disappointing part - you'd wait until after release to get feedback and then there would be a short period where people were playing the release stuff, quickly overshadowed by the aces in the community getting stuff up onto the depot. Since the release scenarios aren't listed there, there is no 'formal' feedback mechanism and the private stuff gets the benefit of public discussion (and the designer of course, the satisfaction of reading it).

My point is that sometimes it is a design decision that has a justification. Personally I would not want to see that for more then a handful of scenarios so to address others we would have to discuss specific scenarios. I know when play testing my self I would give feedback that coming under fire during deployment or the initial moments is not desirable.
One of my other scenarios Opportunity Knocks from CM Black Sea has a huge amount of room to manoeuvre. Each choice has pluses and minuses (faster, slower, better cover, better sight lines) and you are free to choose any or all as the attacker - that is part of the fun. So, in general I support the desire to have choices as the attacker - and the defender too BTW.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. With regards to early contact, player preferences vary as much as designer choices, meaning some people will be predisposed not to like whatever choice you make - that's not a bad thing, just reflect our tastes do vary. My personal reaction as a player is that having contact on turn 1 doesn't bother me if it is appropriate for the historical situation. I did a scenario set in Italy which was essentially an ambush, the challenge was for the ambushed player to get his reinforcements onto the map while the ambusher was preoccupied shooting up the turn 1 forces. But that was what happened in the real deal. Whether or not it worked, couldn't say, but it's easy for something like that to become a 'gimmick' and would be easy for that word to be applied to my scen. But - again, some people *like* gimmicks. I also get misty-eyed at long distance commercials despite knowing how the producer so blatantly manipulated me with sad music and just the right dialogue...

[A Canadian Cat]

Since the release scenarios aren't listed there, there is no 'formal' feedback mechanism and the private stuff gets the benefit of public discussion (and the designer of course, the satisfaction of reading it).

Good point. The internal scenarios have been played multiple times with internal feedback but you are spot on about the comments on the Scenario Depot. There is another source - the Blitz - over there the scenario list includes the stock scenarios and they encourage people to comment on scenarios that they play.

With regards to early contact, player preferences vary as much as designer choices, meaning some people will be predisposed not to like whatever choice you make - that's not a bad thing, just reflect our tastes do vary.

Very true.

[Michael Dorosh]

So I broke down and bought CMSF2 today. I didn't bother with an upgrade, and I never did own NATO and really wanted the Canadians, so I just bought the CMSF2 + NATO bundle without bothering to upgrade. Activation worked fine, no hitches whatsoever. For a few dollars it wasn't worth the hassle of installing my old CMSF disc first.

You can still click through the Task Force Thunder campaign by "cease fire" if you want to play all the scenarios so I clicked through just to take a peek. I'd forgotten how much effort went into realistic briefings - not sure how much was changed from the original, but considering this is the very first ever CMX2 campaign it's a nice mix of different size scenarios and some pretty interesting and realistic write-ups. Good maps, but that was always the most fun of making a scenario, at least for me.

I was humbled to see my name on a couple of scenarios I had submitted for the original TF Thunder, they certainly didn't have to include them, so I'm grateful to see that. I hope Chris Nelson didn't have to pull too much hair out molding them into something he was able to use. I don't remember much about the originals now, but I think the Objective Normandy scenario had a tall cliff along the US left flank map edge, which looking back was really pretty tactically useless and did nothing in the game but possibly distract the US player who might think something was up there. If I'm remembering correctly then it looks like Chris has sensibly replaced that hill with a pond below surface level. As I recall I had built the map from a very lo-res Google Earth view of an actual stretch of road in Syria which is why the hill went there in the first place, but looking back it really doesn't make much sense from a game standpoint.

Favourite "opening scene" of the TF Thunder campaign (i.e. the first thing you see when the scenario starts):



Nicely composed. :-)

[Jarhead0331]

Just having some fun...

http://grogheads.com/whatever/19785#more-19785

[Elvis]

Just having some fun...

http://grogheads.com/whatever/19785#more-19785

Thank you. That was a fun read. I probably haven't played that battle in a decade but it all came rushing back as I read it. I lost a LOT more than you did. It is a death sentence to be under my command. 

Thanks again

[Yskonyn]

Heh  yeah, the old marine did well there!
I was thinking the exact same thing as Elvis when I read that article.  ;D

[MikeGER]

I would like to see that AAR continued through out the campaign  :D

[JudgeDredd]

Just having some fun...

http://grogheads.com/whatever/19785#more-19785

Basic Training skill level - pffft. Call yourself a Marine  ;)

oops. Meant to add it was a good read  O0

[Destraex]

Just having some fun...

http://grogheads.com/whatever/19785#more-19785

Things that stuck out to me like dawgs you know what:

I see they still have not fixed Briefing sizes at larger or even standard 1080. That really sux. One of the things I am getting jack of these days is squinting at the screen to read tiny text. Hell at least I can hold a book close enough for comfort levels.

I also see trenches are still basically above ground sand bag emplacements.

Total Victory hah, smashing Saaar. How many times did you play through?

[Jarhead0331]

I went out of my way to avoid mentioning any technical issues or impressions. That will all be covered in our review.

I played through the entire Task Force Campaign once or twice over the years since 2008. This was the only playnthrough for this feature. Prior to deciding to take some screenshots and do a write up I had one false start where I was very sloppy moving through the breach.

The key to minimizing casualties in these games is to be extremely methodical and patient, when the circumstances permit. Shoot at everything that moves and shoot at some things that don't move too just to be sure...do so repeatedly, and then shoot them all some more before advancing.

[A Canadian Cat]

Activation worked fine, no hitches whatsoever.

Excellent - which is normal

For a few dollars it wasn't worth the hassle of installing my old CMSF disc first.

Just in case anyone reading this is worried - you do *not* have to install the old CMSF first to upgrade. All you need is your CMSF key (and the key for any modules you owned). After you install the new CMSF2 game you enter the old CMSF key and any old CMSF module key and then the new CMSF2 key (or keys if you bought other things). Anyone that cannot find their old key can contact support to track it down.