Hugo Boss was a member of the Nazi party and designed and supplied the uniforms for the SS, SA, Hitler Youth, and National Socialist Motor Corps?
These things usually don't slip past me, but I was completely unaware of this...
From wiki...
Quote
Hugo Boss started his clothing company in 1924 in Metzingen, a small town south of Stuttgart, where it is still based. However, due to the economic climate in Germany at the time Boss was forced into bankruptcy. In 1931 he reached an agreement with his creditors, leaving him with 6 sewing machines to start again. The same year, he became a member of the Nazi party and a sponsoring member ("Förderndes Mitglied") of the Schutzstaffel (SS).[9] He later stated himself that he had joined the party because of their promise to end unemployment and because he felt "temporarily" withdrawn from the Lutheran church.[9] He joined the German Labour Front in 1936, the Reich Air Protection Association in 1939, the National Socialist People's Welfare in 1941.[9] His sales increased from 38,260 RM in 1932 to over 3,300,000 RM in 1941, while his profits increased in the same period from 5,000 RM to 241,000 RM.[9] Though he claimed in a 1934/1935 advertising he had been a "supplier for Nazi uniforms since 1924", such supplies are probable since 1928/1929 and certain since 1934, when he became an Reichszeugmeisterei-licensed (official) supplier of uniforms to the Sturmabteilung, Schutzstaffel, Hitler Youth, National Socialist Motor Corps and other party organizations.[9] To meet demand in later years of the war, Boss used about 30 to 40 prisoners of war and about 150 forced laborers, from the Baltic States, Belgium, France, Italy, Austria, Poland, Czechoslovakia and the former Soviet Union.[9] According to German historian Henning Kober, the company managers were "avowed nazis", "the Boss were all great admirers of Adolf Hitler" and Hugo Boss had in 1945 in his apartment a photograph of himself with Hitler taken in the latter's Obersalzberg retreat.[10]
In a 1946 denazification judgement, based on his early party membership, his financial support of the SS and the uniforms delivered to the Nazi party even before 1933, Boss was considered both an "activist" and a "supporter and beneficiary of National Socialism". He was stripped of his voting rights, his capacity to run a business and, fined "a very heavy penalty" of 100,000 marks.[9] He died in 1948 but his business survived.
In 1997, the company appeared in a list of Swiss dormant accounts, which stirred the publication of articles highlighting the involvement of Hugo Boss with the Nazis.[11][12][13] In 1999, American lawyers filed lawsuits in New Jersey, on behalf of survivors or their families, for the use of forced workers during the war.[14][15] The company did not comment on these law suits but reiterated an earlier statement that it would "not close its eyes to the past but rather deal with the issues in an open and forthright manner".[14] It sponsored research by German historian Elisabeth Timm.[9] Nevertheless, after Timm told the press of her findings, the company declined to publish them.[16] In December 1999, an agreement was reached between the German government and a group of American class-action lawyers, Jewish groups and the United States government to set a $5.1 billion fund, financed equally by German industry and the German government, to compensate slave laborers used by the Germans in World War II.[17] Hugo Boss agreed to participate in this fund,[18] for an amount which was estimated by some sources to be "about 752 000 €",[19] while others considered the firm "finally paid an absolute minimum into the compensation fund".[20]
I had no idea.
Explains why the Nazi's had sharp uniforms. But to think that Boss joined the Nazis in 1931 AND that he was a sponsoring member of the SS!!! :o
I'm shocked that the company still carries his name!!! :o
Agreed. Talk about a black mark. How the heck are they still around?
Beretta made guns for the fascists in Italy. Now they make sidearms for the US Army. It's not as bad as being SS members, but probably still qualifies as economic opportunism.
Yeaaah, but Beretta was founded in 1526. It appears as if Hugo Boss got his big start/got established via his Nazi connections.
Quote from: Centurion40 on February 21, 2012, 02:50:22 PM
Yeaaah, but Beretta was founded in 1526. It appears as if Hugo Boss got his big start/got established via his Nazi connections.
This is a very astute observation and key distinction from other manufacturing/design entities that supported the economies of the chief antagonists of the WWII era.
Beretta, IG Farben, Bayer, Mercedes, BMW, Lufthansa, Mitsubishi, Honda, Toyota, etc. They all supported the industrial war efforts of their mother nations, but Boss seems to have been an early adopter of the National Socialist ideology and certainly used his party membership to profit. He also used slave labor in his factories.
So there seems to be some significant basis to argue that Boss was an ideological supporter of the Nazi regime and Third Reich, whereas most of the other parties named above, were pre-existing industrial ventures that merely continued to operate through the war. They may have profited from their wartime exploits, as well, but I don't think there is much evidence in the way of ideological support there.
Quote from: Centurion40 on February 21, 2012, 02:50:22 PM
Yeaaah, but Beretta was founded in 1526. It appears as if Hugo Boss got his big start/got established via his Nazi connections.
That might be a fair point. Something does seem different about the two - I just hadn't set my mind to figuring out why I thought so.
IMHO, if the Hugo Boss corporation existed for years before the rise of the Nazis, and was just another supplier to the Nazi regime like Krupp or BMW, then this would be a different story.
Volkswagen is NOT a different story... founded in 1937 by the German Labour Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront- a Nazi trade union).
JH,
Your post got me googling for more companies and led me to a story I ran across about the company Siemans.
They were one of the manufacturers of the Gas Ovens used at some of the Death Camps. They also survived the
war to do business, eventually in a big way. About ten years ago they decided to trademark a name for their new
kitchen appliances, chief among them being their new gas cooking stoves. The name they chose? The German word
for cyclone which was....
...Zyklon.
After a howl of public outrage Seimans stated that they were not aware of the connotations of the word.
The facepalm for that one could cause a concussion.
:o
Quote from: Staggerwing on February 21, 2012, 03:29:50 PM
JH,
Your post got me googling for more companies and led me to a story I ran across about the company Siemans.
They were one of the manufacturers of the Gas Ovens used at some of the Death Camps. They also survived the
war to do business, eventually in a big way. About ten years ago they decided to trademark a name for their new
kitchen appliances, chief among them being their new gas cooking stoves. The name they chose? The German word
for cyclone which was....
...Zyklon.
After a howl of public outrage Seimans stated that they were not aware of the connotations of the word.
The facepalm for that one could cause a concussion.
That is certainly interesting in a seriously disturbing way. Still, if you want to get technical, Zyklon-B was manufactured by Dessauer Werke für Zucker and Chemische Werke, which acquired components for the chemical from IG Farben, Schering AG and Dessauer Schlempe. I thought most of the ovens (crematoria) were manufactured by J.A. Topf and Sons? I know Seimans was a supported of the Nazi party and did build factories near concentration camps to make use of the slave labor. However, I thought they mostly manufactured electrical components and in fact, I believe the company actually sued someone who claimed Seimans was involved in the manufacture of the crematoria, and won the case by demonstrating they did not.
i am not so sure about Jarheads distinction.
IG Farben, Krupp and other firms were not merely operating through those years. i would say they were some of the more important columns of the nazi reign. some of them operated in a extremely unethical way and were actively exploiting jews, war prisoners and what not. While Hugo Boss might be disgusting i bet that IG Farben, Krupp and others industrial giants have caused a lot more blood.
Krupp had 100'000 prisoners and kz prisoners as a workforce. Borsig Thyssen Krupp: while they were not directly pushing Hitler to power, they were no friends of democracy and therefore were evening the ground for a totalitarian regime. later on they profited immensly from Hitler. Hugo Boss is most likely a little fish compared to those others.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fficdn.fashionindie.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F09%2Fmein-boss.jpg&hash=048cdd1b92a0479aaf7d7b21f711bcd9abafc023)
Quote from: Keunert on February 21, 2012, 04:33:36 PM
i am not so sure about Jarheads distinction.
IG Farben, Krupp and other firms were not merely operating through those years. i would say they were some of the more important columns of the nazi reign. some of them operated in a extremely unethical way and were actively exploiting jews, war prisoners and what not. While Hugo Boss might be disgusting i bet that IG Farben, Krupp and others industrial giants have caused a lot more blood.
Krupp had 100'000 prisoners and kz prisoners as a workforce. Borsig Thyssen Krupp: while they were not directly pushing Hitler to power, they were no friends of democracy and therefore were evening the ground for a totalitarian regime. later on they profited immensly from Hitler. Hugo Boss is most likely a little fish compared to those others.
This is all probable, in which case, I would stand corrected. Thank you.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 21, 2012, 04:28:03 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on February 21, 2012, 03:29:50 PM
JH,
Your post got me googling for more companies and led me to a story I ran across about the company Siemans.
They were one of the manufacturers of the Gas Ovens used at some of the Death Camps. They also survived the
war to do business, eventually in a big way. About ten years ago they decided to trademark a name for their new
kitchen appliances, chief among them being their new gas cooking stoves. The name they chose? The German word
for cyclone which was....
...Zyklon.
After a howl of public outrage Seimans stated that they were not aware of the connotations of the word.
The facepalm for that one could cause a concussion.
That is certainly interesting in a seriously disturbing way. Still, if you want to get technical, Zyklon-B was manufactured by Dessauer Werke für Zucker and Chemische Werke, which acquired components for the chemical from IG Farben, Schering AG and Dessauer Schlempe. I thought most of the ovens (crematoria) were manufactured by J.A. Topf and Sons? I know Seimans was a supported of the Nazi party and did build factories near concentration camps to make use of the slave labor. However, I thought they mostly manufactured electrical components and in fact, I believe the company actually sued someone who claimed Seimans was involved in the manufacture of the crematoria, and won the case by demonstrating they did not.
Correcting my post for JH:
I should have said that they manufactured
components that were used in some of the ovens, switches and such.
The gas was, of course, used in a different type of facility. The connection of the two might not be technical but
could be measured sometimes in mere meters of physical separation.
IBM supplied the computing equipment (I hesitate to use the word 'computers' since they weren't that advanced yet) that was used to run Germany's Final Solution. Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh were also fans of the Nazi Party as well as being public anti-semites and Germanophiles.
We have to put these kinds of things in a pre-1939 perspective. Anti-semitism was fashionable in elite circles in that era in both Europe and the US. To an extent it still is today, but it's not as obvious.
Germany also had millions of international sympathizers and was also viewed as a 'brave new world,' carrying the torch into the future. War was on the horizon and many people saw it coming, but in the pre-1939 West no one could be certain that by siding with Germany and the Nazis that they would be on the losing side.
I am not trying to defend organizations and people that sided with Germany and the Axis. But it's natural for people to want to be on the winning side.
Quote from: Gusington on February 24, 2012, 01:42:09 PM
IBM supplied the computing equipment (I hesitate to use the word 'computers' since they weren't that advanced yet) that was used to run Germany's Final Solution. Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh were also fans of the Nazi Party as well as being public anti-semites and Germanophiles.
We have to put these kinds of things in a pre-1939 perspective. Anti-semitism was fashionable in elite circles in that era in both Europe and the US. To an extent it still is today, but it's not as obvious.
Germany also had millions of international sympathizers and was also viewed as a 'brave new world,' carrying the torch into the future. War was on the horizon and many people saw it coming, but in the pre-1939 West no one could be certain that by siding with Germany and the Nazis that they would be on the losing side.
I am not trying to defend organizations and people that sided with Germany and the Axis. But it's natural for people to want to be on the winning side.
To which it could be added that we really hadn't seen the darkest of the dark side of fascism in 1939.
In no way does that excuse what happened, but in some sense a supporter of fascism in American in 1939 is a far cry from one in 1942 (when we were finally at war), or 1946 (when the atrocities were known).
^Yes. On top of that could be added that there were millions of American and British fascists. Fascism was seen as totally different pre-1939 compared to fascism post-1945.
I should probably correct myself somewhat. There were warnings coming from the Pacific. The Japanese were acting like wild beasts in China and it was getting news coverage in the US prior to 1939.
But one could argue that there were a number of reasons why the conduct of the Japanese wouldn't be seen in the same light as Europeans. The warnings were there for those to see or overlook.
That said, I still stand by my above statement & Gus'.
i would also think that for a true capitalist it doesn't matter from whom he is getting the money from. the sins of Krupp and others most probably would have been done by other industrialists too: there was just too much money to be made than to consider ethics.
Quote from: Keunert on February 24, 2012, 04:28:39 PM
i would also think that for a true capitalist it doesn't matter from whom he is getting the money from. the sins of Krupp and others most probably would have been done by other industrialists too: there was just too much money to be made than to consider ethics.
Well, capitalism is probably influenced by patriotism. Krupp - I simply do not know the story.
But I am well aware of American firms - like Higgens - whose motive for profit blended perfectly with helping the war effort. What German capitalists knew and when they knew it is a discussion we could dig into for months.
Quote from: LongBlade on February 24, 2012, 05:03:08 PM
What German capitalists knew and when they knew it is a discussion we could dig into for months.
Do you really think so? The Nazis never hid their agenda and once the concentration camps were in full swing, well, the stench of murder on that scale simply cannot be hidden. Germans, and the world, knew.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 24, 2012, 05:07:50 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on February 24, 2012, 05:03:08 PM
What German capitalists knew and when they knew it is a discussion we could dig into for months.
Do you really think so? The Nazis never hid their agenda and once the concentration camps were in full swing, well, the stench of murder on that scale simply cannot be hidden. Germans, and the world, knew.
I have no idea who knew what. I have done research on the horrors of the holocaust in general, and have a good grasp of the military situation as it evolved, but I have devoted zero time peering into the souls of German men in the middle of the war.
Quote from: LongBlade on February 24, 2012, 05:12:45 PM
I have no idea who knew what. I have done research on the horrors of the holocaust in general, and have a good grasp of the military situation as it evolved, but I have devoted zero time peering into the souls of German men in the middle of the war.
Do you think you really need to "peer into German souls" to conclude that knowledge of German atrocity was widespread? Take Dachau. It was opened on March 22, 1933 (51 days after Hitler rose to power) and was located a mere 16km from Munich. Its estimated that over 32,000 people were killed there. Doesn't logic dictate that death on this scale could not be concealed? I don't think you need to be a mind reader to figure this out, you just need to have, respectfully, common sense.
if you tried really hard not wanting to know what jews, gipsies, homosexuals, communist would have to endure under a regime that openly killed children and adults with mental illness... well maybe you wouldn't know. unless your friends would tell you some stories from the eastern front.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 24, 2012, 05:17:50 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on February 24, 2012, 05:12:45 PM
I have no idea who knew what. I have done research on the horrors of the holocaust in general, and have a good grasp of the military situation as it evolved, but I have devoted zero time peering into the souls of German men in the middle of the war.
Do you think you really need to "peer into German souls" to conclude that knowledge of German atrocity was widespread? Take Dachau. It was opened on March 22, 1933 (51 days after Hitler rose to power) and was located a mere 16km from Munich. Its estimated that over 32,000 people were killed there. Doesn't logic dictate that death on this scale could not be concealed? I don't think you need to be a mind reader to figure this out, you just need to have, respectfully, common sense.
I'm sure you're right. I had no idea it opened in '33.
I knew the Hugo Boss thing thanks to an episode of Archer.
How is Archer? I've never watched it. Is it a spoof or is it 'hard-boiled'?
Sigh!
Another reason to like Eisenhower. After seeing Dachau, somehow he knew there would be Holocaust deniers. He made sure that everything was caught on film.
If everything had not been so well documented, most people would not believe that such atrocities could have happened, or on such an industrial scale.
^Big +1. Eisenhower new there would be deniers because most of the world was denying it back when it was happening. It was hard to admit that something on the scale of the Holocaust could actually happen.
It goes beyond Germany too...Japan will never admit to everything they are guilty of in the Pacific War and before, going back to the 19th century. Check out what Korean/Chinese/Japanese relations are like today. And the Turks are still adamant about not labeling what happened in Armenia in WWI as genocide.
And on and on.
Quote from: Gusington on February 24, 2012, 09:26:50 PM
^Big +1. Eisenhower new there would be deniers because most of the world was denying it back when it was happening. It was hard to admit that something on the scale of the Holocaust could actually happen.
It goes beyond Germany too...Japan will never admit to everything they are guilty of in the Pacific War and before, going back to the 19th century. Check out what Korean/Chinese/Japanese relations are like today. And the Turks are still adamant about not labeling what happened in Armenia in WWI as genocide.
And on and on.
I don't have much to add to this. I just wished to say I concur wholeheartedly with your post.
Quote from: Staggerwing on February 24, 2012, 06:18:35 PM
How is Archer? I've never watched it. Is it a spoof or is it 'hard-boiled'?
If we're talking about the animated show on FX, it's very much a (brilliant and hilarious) spoof. Makes me wish I had cable.
Quote from: besilarius on February 24, 2012, 06:42:27 PMAfter seeing Dachau, somehow he knew there would be Holocaust deniers. He made sure that everything was caught on film.
If everything had not been so well documented, most people would not believe that such atrocities could have happened, or on such an industrial scale.
When we went to the Patton Museum at Ft Knox a few years ago, there was a temporary display on one of the units that liberated a camp in Bavaria (not Dachau, but name escapes me). It was pretty moving to listen to the eyewitness accounts of the guys who liberated it, but it was really hard to explain to a five-year-old why you're listening to a telephone receiver in the museum
^The Wife and I are constantly worried about how to explain things like this to the youngins'. My older one (5 years old) has already come home and asked me about war and soldiers and things and I do my best. The Holocaust and 9/11 scare the crap out of me as far as explaining them to the kids.
Quote from: Gusington on February 29, 2012, 10:50:51 AM
^The Wife and I are constantly worried about how to explain things like this to the youngins'. My older one (5 years old) has already come home and asked me about war and soldiers and things and I do my best. The Holocaust and 9/11 scare the crap out of me as far as explaining them to the kids.
I am not sure exactly how we got to the subject, but it was likely a combination of them learning in school and osmosis.
Being a docent at the WWII museum, we visited as a family several times. (Interestingly one child has consumed military history with relish, the other couldn't care less.)
Also, keep in mind that the school will introduce those topics.
One day they'll come home and connect all your WWII games and books to what they learned in class. The next year, they'll learn some more. Eventually (probably around 6th grade) one of the suggested readings will be Anne Frank's diary. That's your window, and don't be afraid to enter it. No one is ever ready, but the world is full of bad people. There are people today who would create another holocaust if they could, and 9/11 is not so far removed from the topic that they can't be connected.
I was never afraid of discussing them - quite the opposite. They need to know. And you can tell when they're ready. If their eyes glaze over, they don't care or get it. But one day they'll be interested, probably particularly so given your religious background, Gus.
Kids can often be treated as young adults. I've never talked down to my kids. It may go in one ear and out the other, but they get to hear life and its complexities on a daily basis. I've found if you tell it like it is, they figure it out. They're smarter than we give them credit for.
The part that unnerves me is the emotion involved. My Grandfather never talked about the war and I think I am programmed like he is.
The events I actually saw in person are just too horrible. I don't know how to present it in person without losing my mind. And if my kids are anything like I was they will want to know every little detail.
How do you tell a little kid you saw people hurtling to their deaths out of windows and splattering on the sidewalk? How do you explain the reasons why you were turned down to donate blood that day? How do you explain the fear that you had that you wouldn't live to get home...that was very real to me in the early hours of 9/11.
Documented history will be somewhat easier because of the degree of detachment. 9/11 will be the big deal for me.
Quote from: Gusington on February 29, 2012, 01:27:18 PM
The part that unnerves me is the emotion involved. My Grandfather never talked about the war and I think I am programmed like he is.
The events I actually saw in person are just too horrible. I don't know how to present it in person without losing my mind. And if my kids are anything like I was they will want to know every little detail.
How do you tell a little kid you saw people hurtling to their deaths out of windows and splattering on the sidewalk? How do you explain the reasons why you were turned down to donate blood that day? How do you explain the fear that you had that you wouldn't live to get home...that was very real to me in the early hours of 9/11.
Documented history will be somewhat easier because of the degree of detachment. 9/11 will be the big deal for me.
Well, I was removed and didn't see that first-hand.
I guess how you deal with it depends on you. If you don't want to discuss it, you don't have to. If you want to, but don't know how, that's a different question.
10+ years on and I don't know. I was a blathering mess for about a month after the actual time. But I'll probably be quietly affected by 9/11 for the rest of my life. What to tell the kids never really came into the equation until now.
I think we were all affected, though not nearly to the degree you - and others there - were.
Probably. That's the kind of stuff they don't tell future parents about. "Yeah so one day you'll have to explain all of the mysteries of the universe - dark and light - to your kids. Good luck."
I seem to remember several conversations about this over at Wargamer. I think Kev used to taunt a "certain well-preened and dressed individual" by saying that Hugo Boss was the designer of the SS uniforms.
Not sure but I think that came up in this thread again and was proven to be true.
Then someone slandered VW, but they were right too!!
I loved my VWs until they became really expensive to maintain. So did my Gramps. For some reason he hated buying anything from Japan but happily bought VW Bugs, even though he didn't fight in the Pacific.
He had his odd side.
Quote from: Gusington on March 30, 2012, 09:51:50 AM
I loved my VWs until they became really expensive to maintain. So did my Gramps. For some reason he hated buying anything from Japan but happily bought VW Bugs, even though he didn't fight in the Pacific.
He had his odd side.
We all have quirky inconsistencies. It's part of being human, I think.
I am entirely made up of quirky inconsistencies.