Read that pre orders start on feb 23 and release on March 25th.
The artwork they posted on Facebook is awesome and well worth sharing.
(https://i.imgur.com/XzNTcaV.jpg)
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 17, 2021, 09:43:35 PM
Read that pre orders start on feb 23 and release on March 25th.
I hope I'm wrong, but is going to be one of those top-tier, $80.00+ games? And second, I very much enjoyed the first, is there anything significantly different in this sequel that would justify getting it? I bought the first years after release when it finally went on sale and suspect I'll have to do the same with this newer version. I'm sure I'm not the only one on this awesome site that has a limited gaming budget.
Quote...And second, I very much enjoyed the first, is there anything significantly different in this sequel that would justify getting it?...
Here are the improvements from the product page:
Enhancements/changes since WitE
3 Full Map Campaigns
1941-45 Campaign (June 22 1941 – 1 August 1945)
Stalingrad to Berlin (November 19 1942 – 4 July 1945)
Vistula to Berlin (13 January 1945 – 1 June 1945)
7 Smaller Operational Scenarios
Velikie Luki '42 (17 November 1942 – 25 January 1943) – The Soviet counterattack to recapture this important rail junction.
Road to Minsk (22 June 1941 – July 2 1941) – The rush to the Dnepr by Army Group Center.
Road to Leningrad (22 June 41 – 8 Oct 41) – Army Group North moves on Leningrad.
The Destruction of Southwest Front (22 June 41 – 15 October 41) – Army Group South and Guderian cause the largest Soviet surrender in the war.
Operation Typhoon 41 (30 September 1941 – 5 January 1942) – The final offensive to take Moscow.
Red Army Resurgent (19 November 1942 – 17 March 1943) – The destruction of the German 6th Army at Stalingrad.
Red God of War (24 November 1942 – 8 February 1943) – The failed Soviet northern offensive.
Improved AI Opponent
Newly re-designed and re-built by Gary Grigsby for War in the East 2
Greatly enhanced Defensive AI performance as well as improved Offensive AI performance
More Accurate Map and Movement rules:
Map based on better projection yields a larger number of hexes in the main combat area (106 hex frontage from Rostov to Leningrad versus 87 in WitE).
Advanced Terrain/Road rules – Road quality in every hex combines with terrain to generate much more realistic impacts of terrain on movement, combat and supplies.
Administrative Movement – Accounts for ability to move rapidly in friendly territory, especially where there are better roads.
Ability to stack additional units into urban and port hexes
Off-Map Theater Boxes and Theater Events:
Theater boxes representing other theaters of the war (North Africa, Italy, etc.), and a full set of events including garrison requirements in the TBs along with other events like partisan operations.
Partisan war now handled with a Soviet Union garrison box, events, and partisan interdiction placed on map.
Enhanced Player Theater Box Control game option that allows players to choose more flexible movement of units between theaters, but at a cost for failing to meet garrison requirements versus benefits for exceeding them.
More accurate historical line up of units, HQs and support units and their historical movement between theaters.
Additional historical campaign events.
Improved Air System incorporating both a more Advanced Air Mode and a Streamlined Air Operational Group Mode
On Map Airbases
Much more realistic Air Combat and Support Resolution compared to War in the East and War in the West.
A separate Air Phase is now used for many air actions, with ground support and transport done in the movement phase.
Advanced Air Mode allows full detailed control of the entire Air War, equivalent to a game within a game.
New "Air Operational Group" Mode which allows you to move Air Groups on the map and provides an easy and streamlined way to manage the air game while focusing on the ground game. This makes the air game easier to manage even for those players that want full control.
Full AI Air Assist that can run most of the air operations based on just a few orders given by the player to the Air Operational Groups.
More accurate and detailed historical weather model incorporating per-hex Weather changes based on the system developed for War in the West.
Changes in Ground Combat to reflect Historical operations:
New Combat Preparation Points for units allow for build ups for better offensive operations and punish units that are in combat every turn without a rest.
Combat Delay Points account for the time spent fighting in a hex and will slow units that move through a hex where significant combat took place that turn.
Attacks can now deprive defending units of future MPs.
Multi-hex retreats.
Many interface improvements, including new art, reorganized screens, a new Turn Summary and more important information regarding your units and situation brought to the top level for easier discovery and quicker access.
Automated Soviet factory evacuation.
Improved Commander's Report screens with more flexibility and CSV export capability for out of game analysis.
Special designation of Assault HQs allowing Command benefits for offensive armies at the cost of some defensive abilities.
Increased Command cost of integrating multiple nationalities under the same command.
Greater direct attachment of support units to certain Soviet and Axis Allied divisions, along with multi-role units that can be on map or used as support.
New In-Game WitEpedia – Includes Detailed Information and Links concerning units and weapons of the Eastern Front.
Detailed TO&E and Order of Battle Charts with information about many of the units on the Eastern Front.
Thanks geezer....you fulfilled the old adage of 'ask and ye shall receive'.... :notworthy:
Quote from: Rayfer on February 18, 2021, 09:51:05 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 17, 2021, 09:43:35 PM
Read that pre orders start on feb 23 and release on March 25th.
I hope I'm wrong, but is going to be one of those top-tier, $80.00+ games? And second, I very much enjoyed the first, is there anything significantly different in this sequel that would justify getting it? I bought the first years after release when it finally went on sale and suspect I'll have to do the same with this newer version. I'm sure I'm not the only one on this awesome site that has a limited gaming budget.
Since the first version is still selling for $79.99, can't see how the 2nd version would be cheaper...unless they offer existing owners some kind of discount. Would seem odd that people who buy now through March 25th would pay more for the old version and new owners would get something cheaper....so for me $79.99 likely is the minimum, if not more:)
I agree. At $80, WitE 1 has always been one the most expensive games. Whether the new version is worth paying more for or not remains to be seen. Still I'm hoping for the One True WWII East Front game of my lifetime. :dreamer:
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 18, 2021, 12:03:46 PM
I agree. At $80, WitE 1 has always been one the most expensive games. Whether the new version is worth paying more for or not remains to be seen. Still I'm hoping for the One True WWII East Front game of my lifetime. :dreamer:
So true. But suspect that I'm not alone in being drawn to the East Front like an RnR to a bar or a sailor to a red light
Quote from: fabius on February 18, 2021, 03:43:50 PM
So true. But suspect that I'm not alone in being drawn to the East Front like an RnR to a bar or a sailor to a red light
A to the men, man.
I'm one of those who waited for a couple of years before buying, got the whole bundle for $59.00. This time i might just pre-order depending on the price. They say the manual is around 500 pages, love me a good hard back manual. Played over 500 hours of WITE 1 and never played the grand campaign. I'm guessing around $100 with the manual.
I'm one of those who will appreciate the AI helpers with the air and supply part, not interested in going to deep into those parts. I'll set some AD for the air and a depot when i have to but i'll let the AI handle most of it and chalk up any AI miss steps as friction of war. Plus i really like the scenarios the game will come with, those will give hundreds of hours of play time before any DLC is released.
Quote from: Dammit Carl! on February 18, 2021, 04:52:27 PM
Quote from: fabius on February 18, 2021, 03:43:50 PM
So true. But suspect that I'm not alone in being drawn to the East Front like an RnR to a bar or a sailor to a red light
A to the men, man.
A-yup!
Not spending the big bucks on this
A lot of nice improvements, but I see no compelling reason to buy it if you have the first one, which I do. Especially at the probable price point.
The improved air game and inclusion of other theaters seems like a fairly massive improvement IMO.
It will probably be a great game. However, I have so many games on the Eastern Front that I don't want to play them anymore. I hope it's a good one for you guys.
Quote from: Geezer on February 18, 2021, 09:57:14 AM
Quote...And second, I very much enjoyed the first, is there anything significantly different in this sequel that would justify getting it?...
Here are the improvements from the product page:
Enhancements/changes since WitE
3 Full Map Campaigns
1941-45 Campaign (June 22 1941 – 1 August 1945)
Stalingrad to Berlin (November 19 1942 – 4 July 1945)
Vistula to Berlin (13 January 1945 – 1 June 1945)
7 Smaller Operational Scenarios
Velikie Luki '42 (17 November 1942 – 25 January 1943) – The Soviet counterattack to recapture this important rail junction.
Road to Minsk (22 June 1941 – July 2 1941) – The rush to the Dnepr by Army Group Center.
Road to Leningrad (22 June 41 – 8 Oct 41) – Army Group North moves on Leningrad.
The Destruction of Southwest Front (22 June 41 – 15 October 41) – Army Group South and Guderian cause the largest Soviet surrender in the war.
Operation Typhoon 41 (30 September 1941 – 5 January 1942) – The final offensive to take Moscow.
Red Army Resurgent (19 November 1942 – 17 March 1943) – The destruction of the German 6th Army at Stalingrad.
Red God of War (24 November 1942 – 8 February 1943) – The failed Soviet northern offensive.
Improved AI Opponent
Newly re-designed and re-built by Gary Grigsby for War in the East 2
Greatly enhanced Defensive AI performance as well as improved Offensive AI performance
More Accurate Map and Movement rules:
Map based on better projection yields a larger number of hexes in the main combat area (106 hex frontage from Rostov to Leningrad versus 87 in WitE).
Advanced Terrain/Road rules – Road quality in every hex combines with terrain to generate much more realistic impacts of terrain on movement, combat and supplies.
Administrative Movement – Accounts for ability to move rapidly in friendly territory, especially where there are better roads.
Ability to stack additional units into urban and port hexes
Off-Map Theater Boxes and Theater Events:
Theater boxes representing other theaters of the war (North Africa, Italy, etc.), and a full set of events including garrison requirements in the TBs along with other events like partisan operations.
Partisan war now handled with a Soviet Union garrison box, events, and partisan interdiction placed on map.
Enhanced Player Theater Box Control game option that allows players to choose more flexible movement of units between theaters, but at a cost for failing to meet garrison requirements versus benefits for exceeding them.
More accurate historical line up of units, HQs and support units and their historical movement between theaters.
Additional historical campaign events.
Improved Air System incorporating both a more Advanced Air Mode and a Streamlined Air Operational Group Mode
On Map Airbases
Much more realistic Air Combat and Support Resolution compared to War in the East and War in the West.
A separate Air Phase is now used for many air actions, with ground support and transport done in the movement phase.
Advanced Air Mode allows full detailed control of the entire Air War, equivalent to a game within a game.
New "Air Operational Group" Mode which allows you to move Air Groups on the map and provides an easy and streamlined way to manage the air game while focusing on the ground game. This makes the air game easier to manage even for those players that want full control.
Full AI Air Assist that can run most of the air operations based on just a few orders given by the player to the Air Operational Groups.
More accurate and detailed historical weather model incorporating per-hex Weather changes based on the system developed for War in the West.
Changes in Ground Combat to reflect Historical operations:
New Combat Preparation Points for units allow for build ups for better offensive operations and punish units that are in combat every turn without a rest.
Combat Delay Points account for the time spent fighting in a hex and will slow units that move through a hex where significant combat took place that turn.
Attacks can now deprive defending units of future MPs.
Multi-hex retreats.
Many interface improvements, including new art, reorganized screens, a new Turn Summary and more important information regarding your units and situation brought to the top level for easier discovery and quicker access.
Automated Soviet factory evacuation.
Improved Commander's Report screens with more flexibility and CSV export capability for out of game analysis.
Special designation of Assault HQs allowing Command benefits for offensive armies at the cost of some defensive abilities.
Increased Command cost of integrating multiple nationalities under the same command.
Greater direct attachment of support units to certain Soviet and Axis Allied divisions, along with multi-role units that can be on map or used as support.
New In-Game WitEpedia – Includes Detailed Information and Links concerning units and weapons of the Eastern Front.
Detailed TO&E and Order of Battle Charts with information about many of the units on the Eastern Front.
I like that list of changes. Feared it would be less of a change from the first game. Now I only have to play it more before longing for the next version.
Pre order delayed, something to do with finalizing manual, which they say is 502 pages long...can't wait to see the price for this one:)
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 23, 2021, 09:09:19 PM
Pre order delayed, something to do with finalizing manual, which they say is 502 pages long...can't wait to see the price for this one:)
Received this today but I think the mail was a mistake :
Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 has been released!
We are sending you this email to let you know that this game has been released!!
Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 $ 79.99
It's available for preorder.
No surprise on the $80 price, but if you want the manual and you live in USA, beware of the cost. To ship to me total cost would be $124 with cheapest shipping since comes from uk and weight.
Not a chance I will be going for that....maybe the game itself some day
I'll probably wait for my 50% off coupon in December. There should be lots of patches by then. ;)
Deep breath. Obviously price is unsurprising , but still quite an ask.
I suspect that it will be growing in my subconscious for a while. Then rationales like, "its only the price of some top triple A's". "Oh, much less than so many with their growing DLC count." "Spent less on good nights out".
Then an old familiar voice may pop in. "You spent more on a meal for some 'ladies'."
A reasonable voice will pop in less and less "yeah but how much will you play it?"
"Shut the frac up, it's East Front ! With great new combat rules!" "Oo that manual though" "This will be the ONE, the game that keeps you engaged for years."
"Barbarossa !" Matrix Games website..... "Leningrad, Stalingrad, Rostov," ... the order button.... "Clash of Titans!" ... bank card details....
... "There there, relax, you'll feel better about it shortly. At least it's done, no more taking up space in your mind."
Price doesn't phase me so much now that the Mrs. has a Mini Cooper and the house has spazzed out at the end of last year/first part of this year - $100 plus dollars for a single replacement headlight? Sure. 13k for a new furnace. Welp, we do need heat.
Still, I'll hold off for some patching and a chance to see some "Lets Play," action.
I'm close to what Fabius says. I nearly pulled the trigger on WitE 1 when it was on sale just recently but held-off for the promised new additions in this game. We'll see if the wait was worth it.
By the way, there is currently a very thorough "Let's Play" video series on You Tube by Strategy Gaming Dojo that does an excellent job explaining WITE1. I played WITE1 a few years back, found it a chore, and thus didn't stick with it. I hope to get back into it with the help of this series. He states that anyone who learns/knows WITE1 will be set to easily grasp WITE2.
Quote from: Sir Slash on March 03, 2021, 10:02:06 AM
I'm close to what Fabius says. I nearly pulled the trigger on WitE 1 when it was on sale just recently but held-off for the promised new additions in this game. We'll see if the wait was worth it.
Just to let you know it is on sale with GOG
https://www.gog.com/game/gary_grigsbys_war_in_the_east
23 and some change!
I've held off buying WitE for a while since I learned that WitE 2 was coming. I had planned on pre-ordering and was excited to hear that there was an option to include a hardcover full color 500+ page manual. What I did not expect was that the manual is printed in the UK, and us normally spoiled US buyers have to pay international shipping to get it here in the states. The manual apparently weighs about 5 pounds and even when you factor in the current pre-order 10% discount, WitE 2 with the hardcover manual shipped to the states comes out to $142.10!!!
With Royal Mail Delivery:
1 item $91.99
Shipping $38.70
Tax $11.41
Total $142.10
I'm not used to having to pay this much for shipping and have always felt bad for overseas buyers. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and it likely will be sufficient for me to skip getting this game..... Color me sad.....
Quote from: Sir Slash on March 03, 2021, 10:02:06 AM
I'm close to what Fabius says. I nearly pulled the trigger on WitE 1 when it was on sale just recently but held-off for the promised new additions in this game. We'll see if the wait was worth it.
Ha I actually searched for Let's Plays after checking the local cost in the basket earlier.
Didn't find any yet, but highly suspect that they are likely to push me over the edge. Or at least make it very much harder to resist !!!
Quote from: fabius on March 03, 2021, 01:43:41 PM
Ha I actually searched for Let's Plays after checking the local cost in the basket earlier.
Didn't find any yet, but highly suspect that they are likely to push me over the edge.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSgMOSrhbsUYJTGYjlefu5P6g23FSoJQg
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbSx_b5pOYvFwl7muMSs9mUaalcfjqZQf
For the smaller scenarios :
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZWHrzhtcONqzJ7i-DLpcpXjJGG1UNnKg
I've been watching the Gaming Dojo guy's videos too. They're very detailed and I've learned a bunch. And they're quite recent too, only about 3 months ago or so. O0 $23.99 Was what the game was selling for on Steam a week ago. Matrix says the game map will be bigger, more area to play and move in. That's both exciting and scary at the same time. :hide:
Quote from: Pete Dero on March 03, 2021, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: fabius on March 03, 2021, 01:43:41 PM
Ha I actually searched for Let's Plays after checking the local cost in the basket earlier.
Didn't find any yet, but highly suspect that they are likely to push me over the edge.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSgMOSrhbsUYJTGYjlefu5P6g23FSoJQg
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbSx_b5pOYvFwl7muMSs9mUaalcfjqZQf
For the smaller scenarios :
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZWHrzhtcONqzJ7i-DLpcpXjJGG1UNnKg
Thanks, very excite for a moment, but I meant War in the East 2 Let's Plays.
Quote from: 88mmkwk on March 03, 2021, 01:25:02 PM
I've held off buying WitE for a while since I learned that WitE 2 was coming. I had planned on pre-ordering and was excited to hear that there was an option to include a hardcover full color 500+ page manual. What I did not expect was that the manual is printed in the UK, and us normally spoiled US buyers have to pay international shipping to get it here in the states. The manual apparently weighs about 5 pounds and even when you factor in the current pre-order 10% discount, WitE 2 with the hardcover manual shipped to the states comes out to $142.10!!!
With Royal Mail Delivery:
1 item $91.99
Shipping $38.70
Tax $11.41
Total $142.10
I'm not used to having to pay this much for shipping and have always felt bad for overseas buyers. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and it likely will be sufficient for me to skip getting this game..... Color me sad.....
FWIW I have the WitW manual and it's not particularly useful. It's a sort of Encyclopedia of the game rather than a manual of how to play it. I've barely looked at it. Save your $$ and just get the D/L
of the game would be my advice.
But the artwork is so cool this time around!
I'd love to preorder this but without the hardbound manual which I figure will be mostly out of date after the first patch or two. I'm forcing myself to wait until my anniversary coupon comes in April which should be close to 50%. Hoping Distant Worlds 2 will be out by then as well so I can double up. Was hoping FlashPoint Campaigns: Southern Storm would be ready but it looks like it won't be until the end of the year.
I'm one of those freakizoids that just loves high quality hardcover color manuals for games like this....sometime I like them even more than the games!
The situation is made worse by the short-lived nature of both their availability and their accuracy. I recently got into War in the Pacific : Admiral's Edition. That game is a major change from the base WitP, and the manual was never officially updated, so it's kind of a "manual-less" game now. But considering I got into it via Strategy Gaming Dojo's YouTube videos, maybe it's just a sign of the times that videos do what manuals used to try to do. BTW, I have great respect for Shadow Empire and how Vic makes major changes to things in the game and regularly goes back and updates the PDF manual!
Conversely, I'm also a big fan of Decisive Campaigns : Barbarossa, although I only recently got into it. The hardcover manual is no longer for sale and never will be (except used maybe). So I missed my chance on that game.
So I've got a real dilemma on my hand with this WitE 2 situation and a short window to get a manual for a game that will likely be enjoyable for the rest of my days. But $142 to pull the trigger?? Holy crapola that's a fistfull of ducats for someone like me that mostly admires playing these games from afar.....
Quote from: 88mmkwk on March 03, 2021, 06:25:32 PM
I'm one of those freakizoids that just loves high quality hardcover color manuals for games like this....sometime I like them even more than the games!
Well if you wants it you wants it
Quote from: fabius on March 03, 2021, 05:55:01 PM
Thanks, very excite for a moment, but I meant War in the East 2 Let's Plays.
I think that they can't exist at this moment. And as was posted before by Stolypin : anyone who learns/knows WITE1 will be set to easily grasp WITE2.
https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup
Now live : It's Tea Time with Slitherine | WitE2 first look
Quote from: Pete Dero on March 04, 2021, 11:34:23 AM
https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup
Now live : It's Tea Time with Slitherine | WitE2 first look
Oh you high rollin, slick strutting, hard hittin pimp.
Thanks !! :bd:
Are any of you guys actually able to access the stream? When I click that link I just see an archive of months-old streams, and the top one says it's a WitE2 stream from 5 hours ago, but it's clearly Panzer Corps 2 gameplay. What's going on?
Yes, we'd both like to know
Edit: Jesus Christ! Check out the video that autoloads after this one! I'm in tears over here.
Sorry for the hijack. I really can't wait to see some footage of the game.
If you click on the War in the East 2 videos image below that Panzer 2 twitch stream it says "No videos found"! This may be a bad omen! Or just another technical glitch on twitch.
;D
If you have Facebook, they uploaded the stream there. Not sure why it's only showing up there by not on Twitch. https://www.facebook.com/slitherine
they may have just fixed it. It's full of stars!
edit: wow, that guy needs to drink less caffiene! I need subtitles to understand british english spoken at 2X.
Quote from: bobarossa on March 04, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
If you click on the War in the East 2 videos image below that Panzer 2 twitch stream it says "No videos found"! This may be a bad omen! Or just another technical glitch on twitch.
It seems they changed some titles !
This one is the real first look video (somewhat hidden on the channel).
Stream Title: War in the East 2 | Reveal Stream with XTRG : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/936695900
YT alternative :
Can't wait for this one. I really like how the other theaters are represented so the full war in Europe is actually being acounted for outside the playspace on the eastern front. I for one never enjoy managing the Finnish front in these games, so I'm very happy to see that front streamlined into the full European war.
Quote from: al_infierno on March 05, 2021, 04:41:41 AM
Can't wait for this one. I really like how the other theaters are represented so the full war in Europe is actually being acounted for outside the playspace on the eastern front. I for one never enjoy managing the Finnish front in these games, so I'm very happy to see that front streamlined into the full European war.
I'm unsure whether I just dreamt this.
But I have a memory, reality or dream? that it's been said that one aim of EFx2 was to later expand to fully incorporate managing the West Front too.
The greyed out enlarged map covering the west and North Africa looks like that may end up being the case.
The fact they added roads to the logistical/movement layers means it now has the ability to work on western front, both before and after Barbarossa. Maybe as DLC's that add new theaters.
OHHH... That would be a Rabbit-Hole I would happily dive into.
I guess I would play an integrated WitW and WitE2 when I get bored with the simplicity of War in the Pacific... ;)
Quote from: al_infierno on March 05, 2021, 04:41:41 AM
Can't wait for this one. I really like how the other theaters are represented so the full war in Europe is actually being acounted for outside the playspace on the eastern front. I for one never enjoy managing the Finnish front in these games, so I'm very happy to see that front streamlined into the full European war.
Is that the case with the new game - frankly I like the extra dimension of the finish front so bit disappointed to hear its an abstract in the new game ..
Quote from: Zulu1966 on March 05, 2021, 04:07:13 PM
Is that the case with the new game - frankly I like the extra dimension of the finish front so bit disappointed to hear its an abstract in the new game ..
The latest dev talk vid that talked about this. Roughly saying, they wanted Finland, but the war there was sufficiently different to be a bridge too far for release. And they said "maybe a dlc"
I suspect it's a fairly low-hanging-fruit dlc for them to go for early ish.
Matrix needs a US shipping center.
It is one thing that we pay so much, but letting it all go to the post office instead of the developers is a waste.
Release tomorrow! Anyone else getting excited ? I preordered game with hardcover manual.
Bruce
Quote from: bruce205 on March 24, 2021, 09:09:56 AM
Release tomorrow! Anyone else getting excited ? I preordered game with hardcover manual.
Bruce
Yep definitely !
Strategygaming Dojo on You Tube has been given an advance copy and has just begun one of his excellent tutorial series on the new game .
My only decision now is whether to play it from tomorrow or wait until my hardback 5 kilo manual arrives sometime after the 16th April .......
Thanks Devoncop ! I'll check it out. I have Robert Kirchubel's Atlas of the Eastern Front to pore over as well !
Bruce
I was going to wait until my anniversary coupon came but the wife is going to Vegas with a friend next week so I'll probably pop for this so I have some unfettered time to explore it. Coupon can go to WarPlan Pacific.
Quote from: nelmsm on March 24, 2021, 06:01:13 PM
I was going to wait until my anniversary coupon came but the wife is going to Vegas with a friend next week so I'll probably pop for this so I have some unfettered time to explore it. Coupon can go to WarPlan Pacific.
You can buy more than one game with the coupon as long as you buy them all at the same time.
Quote from: Geezer on March 25, 2021, 03:02:46 AM
Quote from: nelmsm on March 24, 2021, 06:01:13 PM
I was going to wait until my anniversary coupon came but the wife is going to Vegas with a friend next week so I'll probably pop for this so I have some unfettered time to explore it. Coupon can go to WarPlan Pacific.
You can buy more than one game with the coupon as long as you buy them all at the same time.
I know but not much else I want
OK, just wanted to make sure you were aware.
I sort of tried to resist.
But in the end I had to pre-order.
Reasons:
This will be the ultimate WW2 and East Front game for a good while.
I've played games like Hoi4 many times hoping to get a good East Front titanic battle and been disappointed many times. Black Ice came close, and now trying World Ablaze mod. I am confident that WitE2 will not disappoint here.
After seeing Let's Plays and giving War in the East 1 a proper spin, then I'm confident that WitE2 is not as intimidating once you know what's going on. In fact I could argue that it's less micro than Hoi4
East Front is a special case and draw for wargaming. Two titanic heavyweights that looked like it could go either way. (Arguable I know) But still, like the best entertaining sport, it went one way, then the next and a gruelling match. Anybody remember the classic boxing, Ali Fraser, etc? Sugar Ray Leonard, oh the days.
It's a game that gives me a truest 'operational-tactical' feel, and realism feel, and with strategic decisions.
Massive immersion!
All of the improvements of WitE2 over the first look great, well thought out and implemented. Cleaner and more accessible UI is welcome too.
Quote from: fabius on March 25, 2021, 09:17:55 AM
I sort of tried to resist.
But in the end I had to pre-order.
Reasons:
This will be the ultimate WW2 and East Front game for a good while.
I've played games like Hoi4 many times hoping to get a good East Front titanic battle and been disappointed many times. Black Ice came close, and now trying World Ablaze mod. I am confident that WitE2 will not disappoint here.
After seeing Let's Plays and giving War in the East 1 a proper spin, then I'm confident that WitE2 is not as intimidating once you know what's going on. In fact I could argue that it's less micro than Hoi4
East Front is a special case and draw for wargaming. Two titanic heavyweights that looked like it could go either way. (Arguable I know) But still, like the best entertaining sport, it went one way, then the next and a gruelling match. Anybody remember the classic boxing, Ali Fraser, etc? Sugar Ray Leonard, oh the days.
It's a game that gives me a truest 'operational-tactical' feel, and realism feel, and with strategic decisions.
Massive immersion!
All of the improvements of WitE2 over the first look great, well thought out and implemented. Cleaner and more accessible UI is welcome too.
+1
Man. Wanna get this but ain't got the dosh handy (thanks taxes) at the moment. Sigh.
Just happened to have my anniversary coupon available...made pulling the trigger a no brainer.
I opened it up for a few minutes at lunch... Damn. I had forgotten how long it took me to learn WitE and WitW...this one is going to take some time as well. But the interface seems much cleaner...and that is saying something because WitE was already pretty good.
Quote from: ArizonaTank on March 25, 2021, 02:10:53 PM
Just happened to have my anniversary coupon available...made pulling the trigger a no brainer.
I opened it up for a few minutes at lunch... Damn. I had forgotten how long it took me to learn WitE and WitW...this one is going to take some time as well. But the interface seems much cleaner...and that is saying something because WitE was already pretty good.
Well Arizona....
You win "Most ambitious guy on the internet today" award with the " opened it up for a few minutes at lunch" remark :DD
I downloaded it and wont be even attempting to get going until I have watched the Strategy Dojo tutorials and have the hardback manual in my sticky paws !
One thing I can attest to right off the bat is that the intro cinematic is freakin' awesome. It's like the intro theme to a Band of Brothers: Ostfront, if such a thing existed. :smitten:
Also, Mr. Dojo has a tutorial video online already:
Got a minor victory on the Road to Minsk 2-turn scenario. I'm still not totally sure how air directives work as I've never played WitW, but thankfully I managed to get through a scenario without accidentally clearing the preset orders. :2funny: Eagerly awaiting Strategy Dojo's video on air war because I seriously have no clue what I'm doing there.
Overall this game is definitely a hit for me, but we'll see how I feel once the honeymoon phase wears off. Two turns isn't exactly enough to get a good look at the new logistics system, and there were no secondary theaters to speak of except the reserves, but there's little QOL improvements like the turn summary, and the WitEpedia which has a description for just about every individual division in the game. It doesn't reinvent the wheel, but the little improvements are nice. A lot of people on /r/computerwargames complain that the lack of a total UI overhaul is basically a dealbreaker, which I think is a bit harsh.
Quote from: devoncop on March 25, 2021, 03:00:03 PM
I downloaded it and wont be even attempting to get going until I have watched the Strategy Dojo tutorials and have the hardback manual in my sticky paws !
I have the manual for WitW and don't find it very useful tbh. It's basically an encyclopedia of the game rather than something that helps you understand how to play it.
It will probably be a great game. However, I have so many games on the Eastern Front that I don't want to play them anymore marine equipment wholesaler
(https://www.mazuzee.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=90). I hope it's a good one for you guys.
For those of you who have the game I've got two questions:
1. Have you started the grand campaign?
2. If so what is the mean time between turns?
Still on my learning mission Road to Leningrad.
I will say that we can dial back the amount of info we get in Air phase and others, and zips along fast for my 10 yr old-ish rig.
Will add. Completely NOT disappointed.
Has exceeded my expectations. It's like the improvement from of all the changes exceeds the sum of each individual change.
What's kind of weird is WitE 1 is more expensive than WitE 2 right now at the Matrix site. I'm curious to see if the sales of the first game stay up or drop-off.
Sorry, guys. I find myself underwhelmed. I own every other GG East front title, back to the original for the Apple IIe in the '80s. This one offers the fewest advances for the most? money. I'll pass until it is a reasonable 20 bucks or less (being only a glorified DLC/patch). I can wait for years, if I live that long. If I don't, the money will have gone to steaks, booze and my wife.
I think that's a fair comment solops. I don't agree with you but can definitely see how it could feel that way.
Thing is for me I had WitE 1 and never gave it much time. So much of the appeal is new to me. And I'm getting a similar not much is different way with Paradox games in general. Whole new games, different era, different mechanics, but feeling Paradox samey.
That said, the way I've come to it, all the new changes combine to make WitE2 very engaging and immersive. Starting to get a feel formations, and memory of certain hard points. My own Brest fortress hardpoint battles that sting me. Just one example, I'm still very mindful of an early turn battle that knocked out over 50 of my divisions tanks.
Yeah, for me much of the appeal is that I never really sank my teeth into WitE1, despite enjoying the base mechanics, so this installment feels like it was tailored specifically for me.
Quote from: al_infierno on March 28, 2021, 02:20:57 AM
Yeah, for me much of the appeal is that I never really sank my teeth into WitE1, despite enjoying the base mechanics, so this installment feels like it was tailored specifically for me.
Exactly the same as myself.
The UI looks really impressive.
Still watching Strategygaming Dojos videos and waiting for the manual before jumping in.
Edit...... By the way if we both like it and you fancy a PBEM++ game At some point let me know ....likely be carnage as we learn but should be epic.
For sure. We should either do a smaller scenario for starters or a 1942 campaign - I've heard the 1941 grand campaign isn't great for beginners - it's a nightmare for the Soviet side as one might imagine. :buck2:
I think I have you added on steam, so feel free to message me if you want to set it up, or I'll send you one next time I'm armchair generaling. O0 If anyone else wants to set up some PBEM, my steam name is the same as my Grogheads name without the underscore (_)
Sounds good. :bd:
Will message you on Steam re this to avoid thread congestion.
Finally got some time to play a little bit of the game, i love it. I one of those that didn't get WITE 1 until all the DLC was out and was on sale, got the whole bundle for $60 a few years after release. I've probably logged about 500 hours into WITE 1, and have still never played the main campaign. Also own all of WITW, but have probably only logged about 50 hours into that one. I appreciate the fact there some AI assistance in this monster. I'm letting the AI manage my depots, and i'm mostly running the air war. Of course i've only finished turn one of the "Road to Leningrad" scenario which took two hours. A lot of that time was looking around digging into the features and information and finding my way around. I'm not a min/max player but i imagine this is a micro-mangers dream game, go as deep as you want to.
Not sure if this is good or not, but here's my total damage of the air phase for turn one of Road to Leningrad. I adjusted the plane route to avoid what little flak there was, adjusted the recon area, altitude and days to fly. I put top priority on airfields, and raised the intensity and only flew day 1 and day 7. Caught a lot of planes on the ground.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51079965972_de640d61a3_h.jpg)
I've been trying to resist. That screenshot reminded me why I love Grigsby games so much. They are always packed with details and statistics I find fascinating.
I keep procrastinating hoping the 10% discount will end and then I'll have an excuse to wait a lot longer... ;)
same here.
That discount is available for a month (longer than usual?). Plus, still have anniversary coupon kicking around. Not looking good...
Does this version allow more flexibility with the axis in building new units or production like you can for the Soviets ?
After you've done historical Barbarossa for decades with a dozen different game engines, it's the what if history that makes it possible to do Barbarossa one more time.
I'm sure you could probably rebuild the campaign in the editor to make any what if history you'd like, as I did it with wite1, but it's very tedious to do.
These days I'd rather see things go boom in dcs especially with the hind around the corner.
Quote from: al_infierno on March 25, 2021, 08:22:04 PM
One thing I can attest to right off the bat is that the intro cinematic is freakin' awesome. It's like the intro theme to a Band of Brothers: Ostfront, if such a thing existed. :smitten:
Happy to know there are still fans of this style out there. That is precisely what is in the works for Task Force Admiral too (the original WitP intro did leave me with a long-lasting impression - replacing it was to me the only thing that went wrong in AE to be honest :'( )
Quote from: The_Admiral on March 29, 2021, 12:40:34 AM
Quote from: al_infierno on March 25, 2021, 08:22:04 PM
One thing I can attest to right off the bat is that the intro cinematic is freakin' awesome. It's like the intro theme to a Band of Brothers: Ostfront, if such a thing existed. :smitten:
Happy to know there are still fans of this style out there. That is precisely what is in the works for Task Force Admiral too (the original WitP intro did leave me with a long-lasting impression - replacing it was to me the only thing that went wrong in AE to be honest :'( )
Sounds awesome! The intro video to WitP was about the one thing about the game I actually sank my teeth into. :2funny:
Quote from: devoncop on March 25, 2021, 03:00:03 PM
You win "Most ambitious guy on the internet today" award with the " opened it up for a few minutes at lunch" remark :DD
This made me laugh unnecessarily hard ;D
Is the intro video available somewhere in the inter webs?
Found it, how neat! :bd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q21wMIbgukw
I found this posted on a Facebook PC wargaming site by someone playing WitE2 who was an experienced WitE1 player. I haven't gotten the newer rendition yet and was wondering what others here thought about this post. From what he wrote it appears you cannot move into 1942 in the campaign game unless you accrue a fixed number of VP's in 1941, thus his complaint that it you're sort of forced into a certain style of play: First I love WITE2 and they did a great job . Another loss , look at the damage I did , But I won't have enough points to move on to 1942. War in the East 2 is a lot different that War in the East 1 , They make you play like Hilter is in charge , I use to win every game because I didn't do what Hilter would do. WITE1 rule book told you not fight in the Winter and not out run your Railheads. This game gives you no choice but fight and fight till you reach 525 points which is hard . So back to the drawing board and it is time for another game . This time I throwing 3 Panzer group at Moscow , will see what happens . That will give the points I need .
As the Axis in the campaigns you need 525 VP's on or before 1/1/42 and 575 on or before 10/42 (no specific day) or you lose. No idea how hard that is to achieve at this point.
Basically you need to do a lot worse than historically to lose as the Axis in 1941 or 1942.
If that is the case then it is not a bad thing for the game to end as an Axis player would be crushed by the Soviets by 1944 at the latest if their early war progress was so bad.
I don't have an issue with the setup. Geezer's numbers are correct, but you do start with 370 points as axis, and you get extra points for capturing a city early. One point per week early up to a maximum of 6 if i remember correctly. You don't have to have that number on that date, you had to have reached that number sometime before Jan/42. Whether these numbers are fair and balanced for your general player i have no idea, haven't played the campaign yet. No problem with the concept in theory, it's not like the Germans could take their time as the bear got stronger.
So what is the wait time between turns whilst playing the grand campaign?
Quote from: W8taminute on April 05, 2021, 10:39:23 AM
So what is the wait time between turns whilst playing the grand campaign?
The wait time depends upon the level of detail you set on the opponents turn and that of your own. At the lowest level of detail the Grand Campaign for me in SP is taking about 5-10 minutes depending upon how much action there is.
If you choose the highest level of detail you can probably double that time.
I actually like the higher detail and enjoy watching the play backs but I appreciate some may not. The smaller scenarios are very quick turnarounds.
^Oh wow thanks for the information.
I'm experiencing some serious FOMO reading about this game and how much you guys are enjoying it.
Could use some advice here.
Would you say someone whose experience in wargames is the panzer corps series, Steel Panthers and Battle Academy should stay away from this game? Is there another game that might be a level or two below the complexity level of WitE2?
Thanks
Quote from: acctingman on May 20, 2021, 03:05:12 PM
Could use some advice here.
Would you say someone whose experience in wargames is the panzer corps series, Steel Panthers and Battle Academy should stay away from this game? Is there another game that might be a level or two below the complexity level of WitE2?
Thanks
I wouldn't say you should stay away from it, but the amount of information in the UI might be a bit overwhelming. Definitely stay away from the 1941-1945 campaign until you've played the smaller scenarios and learned a bit more. Ultimately it all comes down to shuffling counters and capturing VPs.
I'd recommend checking out WarPlan or the Strategic Command series for something a bit more in-depth than Panzer Corps, but not quite on the level of WitE.
Quote from: al_infierno on May 20, 2021, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: acctingman on May 20, 2021, 03:05:12 PM
Could use some advice here.
Would you say someone whose experience in wargames is the panzer corps series, Steel Panthers and Battle Academy should stay away from this game? Is there another game that might be a level or two below the complexity level of WitE2?
Thanks
I wouldn't say you should stay away from it, but the amount of information in the UI might be a bit overwhelming. Definitely stay away from the 1941-1945 campaign until you've played the smaller scenarios and learned a bit more. Ultimately it all comes down to shuffling counters and capturing VPs.
I'd recommend checking out WarPlan or the Strategic Command series for something a bit more in-depth than Panzer Corps, but not quite on the level of WitE.
I haven't looked at WarPlan but I have been eyeballing Strategic Command for quite sometime.
Thanks al
With WITE2 you can dig as deep as you want. Like Al said at the end of the day your pushing counters. Why not just wait until it hits Steam, then you have 2 hours to test drive it and can still refund it.
This version clicks with me more than the first game. I think its great, so I'm a bit biased.
Quote from: acctingman on May 20, 2021, 05:07:51 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on May 20, 2021, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: acctingman on May 20, 2021, 03:05:12 PM
Could use some advice here.
Would you say someone whose experience in wargames is the panzer corps series, Steel Panthers and Battle Academy should stay away from this game? Is there another game that might be a level or two below the complexity level of WitE2?
Thanks
I wouldn't say you should stay away from it, but the amount of information in the UI might be a bit overwhelming. Definitely stay away from the 1941-1945 campaign until you've played the smaller scenarios and learned a bit more. Ultimately it all comes down to shuffling counters and capturing VPs.
I'd recommend checking out WarPlan or the Strategic Command series for something a bit more in-depth than Panzer Corps, but not quite on the level of WitE.
I haven't looked at WarPlan but I have been eyeballing Strategic Command for quite sometime.
Thanks al
The SC series would be a good step up from Panzer Corps, Warplan is a step above the SC series in my opinion.
Quote from: -budd- on May 20, 2021, 05:16:36 PM
Quote from: acctingman on May 20, 2021, 05:07:51 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on May 20, 2021, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: acctingman on May 20, 2021, 03:05:12 PM
Could use some advice here.
Would you say someone whose experience in wargames is the panzer corps series, Steel Panthers and Battle Academy should stay away from this game? Is there another game that might be a level or two below the complexity level of WitE2?
Thanks
I wouldn't say you should stay away from it, but the amount of information in the UI might be a bit overwhelming. Definitely stay away from the 1941-1945 campaign until you've played the smaller scenarios and learned a bit more. Ultimately it all comes down to shuffling counters and capturing VPs.
I'd recommend checking out WarPlan or the Strategic Command series for something a bit more in-depth than Panzer Corps, but not quite on the level of WitE.
I haven't looked at WarPlan but I have been eyeballing Strategic Command for quite sometime.
Thanks al
The SC series would be a good step up from Panzer Corps, Warplan is a step above the SC series in my opinion.
Thank you budd
I think I'm going to do just that. Buy SC, then Warplan and them WitE2. Maybe by then I can get it 50% off O0
So, am I better getting Strategic Command WW2: Europe or the WW2:World at War?
Since your stepping up in complexity, I'd go with Europe instead of taking on the whole war. It all just depends on a big a bite you want to take, their both good games that are well supported.
Quote from: -budd- on May 20, 2021, 05:55:49 PM
Since your stepping up in complexity, I'd go with Europe instead of taking on the whole war. It all just depends on a big a bite you want to take, their both good games that are well supported.
Again, thank you budd
No problem, enjoy
SC and Warplan are strategic games whereas WITE2 is an Operational game blown up all out of proportion. I would suggest getting Decisive Campaigns Barbarossa for your War in the East fix if you have not played monster/complex games before. As far as WITE2 goes, I love what they did to logistics and Command Points (may have name wrong there) but hate what they did to the air war (I have WitW but have never played it).
Quote from: bobarossa on May 20, 2021, 09:03:45 PM
SC and Warplan are strategic games whereas WITE2 is an Operational game blown up all out of proportion. I would suggest getting Decisive Campaigns Barbarossa for your War in the East fix if you have not played monster/complex games before. As far as WITE2 goes, I love what they did to logistics and Command Points (may have name wrong there) but hate what they did to the air war (I have WitW but have never played it).
I actually prefer the western theater to the eastern theater, but I have Decisive Campaigns on my "to-do" list before I jump on WitE2.
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)
Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993). When we started developing War in the East in 2000 we wanted to make an IGOUGO game because we wanted to make a slightly more accessible game that had the turn to turn addictiveness of IGOUGO games like Panzer General. We liked the idea of the "just need to move one more unit" feel that games with continuous movement/combat phases can have. We felt this would be fun, especially in the making of pockets. This was also our homage to the old SPI War in the East boardgame from the 70s (the first monster game and one of my favorites). Clearly WitE is more complicated than Panzer General, but despite all the complexities, we enjoy hearing some of the posts of new players that point out that it's really not that hard to pick up WitE and start moving and attacking and having fun with the game. That was the idea. There's tons of things to be learned in order to play the game well, but at it's heart the game has a simple concept.
BTW, yes, we started WitE in 2000 but had to shelve it several times as we worked on other projects (including War in the Pacific, a WEGO game) until we finally got back to it seriously in 2008. This is why it didn't come out until 2010."
This disturbs me greatly. Sounds like they dumbed it down for new players while admitting that it was complex anyway. They wanted the player to essentially sacrifice realism for what is a graphical experience. I get it at the same time as thinking they just needed to work of the way the WEGO turn played... like combat mission so you can rewind and see whats going on to your hearts content or just slowing the turns down, making them a little more graphical.
I would pretty much disagree in the entirety. I would not say that making WITE IGOUGO was dumbing it down. You can't really call games this large a "one more turn" experience. Turns take way too long. IGOUGO games provide instant feedback that keeps people playing. The problem I have with WITP is that it takes so long to issue orders for a turn that the fun (turn execution) is too far away to keep me interested. In addition, week long turns take away as much 'realism' from WEGO games as IGOUGO since it is saying that the enemy can't react to your moves in less than a week. This is the same argument people use against WEGO games. Some of this is mitigated in WITE by the automatic reinforcement with support units and sometimes divisions by the HQ units during battles. Do WEGO games allow for this instant reaction (I really don't know since I rarely play them)?
Whether a game is WEGO or IGOUGO if it takes centuries for the turn to execute I won't play.
One of my lamentations I had when playing WITE 1 was the moment I was ready to hit the end turn button I would look up at the clock. If I saw that I had the ten minutes necessary to wait until it was my turn again I would hit end turn. But woe to me if The Wife came in and said I need you to help me with something that's going to take an hour or so. All the fun I had in the 45 minutes or so that I spent playing my turn and then to wait another 10 for it to execute vanish immediately the moment The Wife butts in.
If I knew the turn would process in less than 2 minutes I would tell the wife I'll be right there and then quickly save the game after the turn executes.
I'm still learning this game, but so far all I can say is this really is a masterpiece of programming.
I you want you can play this game by moving some counters on a map. But if you care for it you can check how much damage the machine guns on tanks caused.
PCs were invented so that we could finally have WEGO wargames. To design games otherwise is the worst sort of failure, bigger than even endless DLCs.
Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
PCs were invented so that we could finally have WEGO wargames. To design games otherwise is the worst sort of failure, bigger than even endless DLCs.
I'd have to agree to disagree. Yes, in some instances WEGO is great, but with the massive size of the full campaign in WitE2...I just don't see it working. Curious as to what others think.
Quote from: Rayfer on July 04, 2021, 12:36:03 PM
Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
PCs were invented so that we could finally have WEGO wargames. To design games otherwise is the worst sort of failure, bigger than even endless DLCs.
I'd have to agree to disagree. Yes, in some instances WEGO is great, but with the massive size of the full campaign in WitE2...I just don't see it working. Curious as to what others think.
A computer can handle it. I'm not sure the human player can on this level.
For this type of game I think I prefer IGOUGO.
Quote from: Pete Dero on July 04, 2021, 01:08:05 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on July 04, 2021, 12:36:03 PM
Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
PCs were invented so that we could finally have WEGO wargames. To design games otherwise is the worst sort of failure, bigger than even endless DLCs.
I'd have to agree to disagree. Yes, in some instances WEGO is great, but with the massive size of the full campaign in WitE2...I just don't see it working. Curious as to what others think.
A computer can handle it. I'm not sure the human player can on this level.
For this type of game I think I prefer IGOUGO.
Interesting take.....I agree.
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.
Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 03:52:27 PM
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.
It's not, WitPAE is proof of that. It's merely a matter of personal preferences.
I really want to like WITE 2, but the IGOUGO is too much of a barrier for me.
Quote from: Destraex on June 09, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)
Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).
That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Destraex on June 09, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)
Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).
That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
Not true, I played War in Russia and Second Front and you entered your orders using the keypad and orders were executed when you ended turn. I remember entering delays to try to execute pincer movements.
Quote from: bobarossa on July 04, 2021, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Destraex on June 09, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)
Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).
That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
Not true, I played War in Russia and Second Front and you entered your orders using the keypad and orders were executed when you ended turn. I remember entering delays to try to execute pincer movements.
Yeah, You entered YOUR turn in pulses that were executed when you ended YOUR turn.
THEN the AI/oponent entered his orders and executed HIS turn.
Hence, IGOUGO
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 04:38:29 PM
Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 03:52:27 PM
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.
It's not, WitPAE is proof of that. It's merely a matter of personal preferences.
I really want to like WITE 2, but the IGOUGO is too much of a barrier for me.
Like you said it is a personal preference.
If have trouble getting my head around WitpAE : did I give all my units orders, ...
I know it might also be because the scope is different but I prefer the way WITE2 works.
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 04:38:29 PM
Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 03:52:27 PM
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.
It's not, WitPAE is proof of that. It's merely a matter of personal preferences.
If I may - honestly I can't really subscribe to this analysis - although I am a WitP AE and a seasoned player. WitP works only properly as a WEGO title because of its time scale (1 day/turn) and would be unplayable otherwise. The consequence is that it pretty much makes it unplayable on the long run in a multiplayer game, especially with that old PBEM tech (but you can't have it both ways). Let's be honest, the other scales that were available back then (I don't remember, there was a 3 days turn thing too right?) were just not adapted to the topic.
WitE has a much longer time unit for each turn, on a terrain that favours mobile warfare. Let's not forget that the only actual combat units that might not take a dozen turns to move from an hex to another are warships - and when an encounter happens, it is solved in a number of ways that all still remain quite relatable on the realism scale. Ships don't start next to each other along a frontline either.
What I mean is that WitP is a beautiful affair that I'd love to revisit with a modern network system (actual WEGO where both sides give orders simultaneously & resolve the turn together, free of the limitations of email-based systems) but it doesn't prove much when it comes to the gameplay of a Eastern Front game. My humble 2 cents :coolsmiley:
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: bobarossa on July 04, 2021, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Destraex on June 09, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)
Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).
That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
Not true, I played War in Russia and Second Front and you entered your orders using the keypad and orders were executed when you ended turn. I remember entering delays to try to execute pincer movements.
Yeah, You entered YOUR turn in pulses that were executed when you ended YOUR turn.
THEN the AI/oponent entered his orders and executed HIS turn.
Hence, IGOUGO
My memories from 25 years ago stand corrected.
Quote from: bobarossa on July 05, 2021, 11:41:23 AM
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: bobarossa on July 04, 2021, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Destraex on June 09, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)
Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).
That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
Not true, I played War in Russia and Second Front and you entered your orders using the keypad and orders were executed when you ended turn. I remember entering delays to try to execute pincer movements.
Yeah, You entered YOUR turn in pulses that were executed when you ended YOUR turn.
THEN the AI/oponent entered his orders and executed HIS turn.
Hence, IGOUGO
My memories from 25 years ago stand corrected.
oohh been there done that :)
Quote from: The_Admiral on July 05, 2021, 06:20:08 AM
WitP works only properly as a WEGO title because of its time scale (1 day/turn) and would be unplayable otherwise
I'll argue that the detail level in the game makes anything but a 1 day turn cycle meaningless.
WEGO or IGOUGO is a design choice and since my preference is WEGO, I agree it would be unplayable otherwise. :)
Quote from: The_Admiral on July 05, 2021, 06:20:08 AM
The consequence is that it pretty much makes it unplayable on the long run in a multiplayer game, especially with that old PBEM tech
I have to disagree with you here. I played a PBEM game (the full game) from December 7. 41 to 28. of August 1945,1 day turns, with no problems whatsoever. Had it not been for the email-option that would have never happened.
Quote from: The_Admiral on July 05, 2021, 06:20:08 AM
the other scales that were available back then (I don't remember, there was a 3 days turn thing too right?) were just not adapted to the topic.
The turn cycle options are: 1,2,3,4 or continuous. I'm not sure how continuous turns work, I never looked into it, but those are implemented.
Quote from: The_Admiral on July 05, 2021, 06:20:08 AM
WitE has a much longer time unit for each turn, on a terrain that favours mobile warfare. Let's not forget that the only actual combat units that might not take a dozen turns to move from an hex to another are warships
Good point.
Quote from: The_Admiral on July 05, 2021, 06:20:08 AM
What I mean is that WitP is a beautiful affair that I'd love to revisit with a modern network system (actual WEGO where both sides give orders simultaneously & resolve the turn together, free of the limitations of email-based systems) but it doesn't prove much when it comes to the gameplay of a Eastern Front game. My humble 2 cents
Actually I like the email-system. It doesn't require both players to be online at the same time. Which opens up for a host of other issues. RL events and time zones for example.
Anyway.
I'm not comparing WitP-AE and WitE-2. I don't think that would be fair to either game.
What I'm saying is that, when talking turn based games, it is a design-choice whether a game is IGOUGO or WEGO. Not a question of people's ability to cope with complex games. That's why I mentioned WitP-AE in the first place.
And when it comes to the potential customer, it's very much a question of personal preferences.
I'm not sure if that qualifies as an analysis. I call it an observation. :)
Quote from: Pete Dero on July 05, 2021, 03:50:37 AM
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 04:38:29 PM
Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 03:52:27 PM
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.
It's not, WitPAE is proof of that. It's merely a matter of personal preferences.
I really want to like WITE 2, but the IGOUGO is too much of a barrier for me.
Like you said it is a personal preference.
If have trouble getting my head around WitpAE : did I give all my units orders, ...
I know it might also be because the scope is different but I prefer the way WITE2 works.
On the bright side. If you forget a unit or two, it's really not that much of an issue if you play 1 day turns.
Frustrating and annoying? Absolutely, but not an issue.
Besides, if you have played 4 or 5 turns of WitE 2, can you honestly say that you haven't missed a unit? ;)
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 05, 2021, 01:07:22 PM
can you honestly say that you haven't missed a unit? ;)
Every time I loose that is my excuse ... >:D
Interesting analysis of War in the East 2 by a defense writer at Foreign Policy:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/04/war-in-the-east-2-wargame-russia-stopped-hitler/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/04/war-in-the-east-2-wargame-russia-stopped-hitler/)
The guy goes out of his way to sing WitE2s praises. I agree with his assessment fully.
^ Great article, thanks for sharing!
I had some issues with the text in game.
I found this solution on the Matrix forums and this might be useful to other people with Nvidea cards :
Enabling FXAA makes all text very blurry. Disabling it fixed the issue. Works for WITE1, WITE2 and WITW.
(https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/13846/D462851D202143009920ABF8025FE5D7.jpg)