Main Menu

Winter Wars

Started by MengJiao, May 05, 2020, 02:08:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

airboy

Unfortunately, the movie with English subtitles is not on youtube that I can find. 

Found it on Ebay (last copy) with English subtitles for less than $20 delivered. 

Love Finland.  Been there 3 times.  Hate the commies.  Probably will enjoy the movie.

twitter3

Not a movie, but a decent show from the Battlefield series on the Winter War.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4hb5nWVxjE

JasonPratt

And then the sequel, sort of!

ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Gusington



слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

SirAndrewD

Quote from: Gusington on May 06, 2020, 09:37:00 PM
Wow, I almost thought you were kidding SirAndrew.

How could you think such a thing when I'm so consistently dead serious all the time?   O:-)
"These men do not want a happy ship. They are deeply sick and try to compensate by making me feel miserable. Last week was my birthday. Nobody even said "happy birthday" to me. Someday this tape will be played and then they'll feel sorry."  - Sgt. Pinback

Gusington



слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

MengJiao

Quote from: MengJiao on May 06, 2020, 08:44:05 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on May 06, 2020, 05:22:38 PM
Definitely interested in picking this one up.  I put a good bit of time into Wars Across the World, but not much into the Spanish Civil War iteration. 

I agree the Winter War and "Continuation" war are hardly "obscure," but I think when people say that, they're really saying it "lacks appeal to mainstream audiences" (with countless D-Day media coming to mind as the opposite of that).

Meng, what's your take on how this game compares to other similar Winter War titles?

   Apparently it is a different version of the WAW game engine put out under a different set of logos and it doesn't interface with the other WAW scenarios.  It looks better overall and runs more smoothly and coherently for the most part, but has some odd bugs.  It is still an early access game and definitely has some odd problems.

The basic WAW machinery seems to work fairly well:

   https://www.wargamer.com/articles/wars-across-the-world-avalon-digital/

And there are methods for editing/modding (see details above for example).  The "scenarios" (really big mini-games) however are a really mixed bag.  Armada 1588 is a joke at best so I might try doing an Armada scenario from scratch.  Other "scenarios" are quite good, which leads to the question == what the hell is the Winter War based on WAW on steam?  Why is it a separate version that doesn't link up with the other WAW components on Steam?  Very strange.


MengJiao

Quote from: MengJiao on May 08, 2020, 06:32:46 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on May 06, 2020, 08:44:05 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on May 06, 2020, 05:22:38 PM
Definitely interested in picking this one up.  I put a good bit of time into Wars Across the World, but not much into the Spanish Civil War iteration. 

I agree the Winter War and "Continuation" war are hardly "obscure," but I think when people say that, they're really saying it "lacks appeal to mainstream audiences" (with countless D-Day media coming to mind as the opposite of that).

Meng, what's your take on how this game compares to other similar Winter War titles?

   Apparently it is a different version of the WAW game engine put out under a different set of logos and it doesn't interface with the other WAW scenarios.  It looks better overall and runs more smoothly and coherently for the most part, but has some odd bugs.  It is still an early access game and definitely has some odd problems.

The basic WAW machinery seems to work fairly well:

   https://www.wargamer.com/articles/wars-across-the-world-avalon-digital/

And there are methods for editing/modding (see details above for example).  The "scenarios" (really big mini-games) however are a really mixed bag.  Armada 1588 is a joke at best so I might try doing an Armada scenario from scratch.  Other "scenarios" are quite good, which leads to the question == what the hell is the Winter War based on WAW on steam?  Why is it a separate version that doesn't link up with the other WAW components on Steam?  Very strange.

  Still griping:

  Okay so...the problem with gaming the Armada of 1588 is that sure, by the summer of 1588 with a weird plan and a mass of transports, things were going to be highly problematic for the Armada and Parma's force.

  You really need to allow the Spanish to start much earlier and also simulate the workable parts of the Spanish forces (for example the Portuguese galleons) and their very good Admiral:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81lvaro_de_Baz%C3%A1n,_1st_Marquess_of_Santa_Cruz


MengJiao

Quote from: Gusington on May 07, 2020, 06:50:10 PM
Wow nice.

  In the Winter War game, beefed up Fins iteration, the Finns have more planes and replacements.  Those Blenheims pack a wallop:


Crossroads

Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 06, 2020, 08:12:19 PM
Quote from: Gusington on May 06, 2020, 07:34:41 PM
^With that said - are there any good Winter War movies?

Really?

Only one of the greatest war movies ever made.  Possibly the greatest.  I have owned it for a long long time.



I haven't tried the game yet - and it looks really neat! - but as a Finn I can certainly comment on Finnish war movies out there.

To begin with, I'd definitively agree that "Talvisota", or Winter War from 1989 remains the definitive war movie, it still looks rather good despite at times showing its age and low(ish) budget. A village from the Finnish rural bible belt area going to war. If you can get your hands on a region free 4K restored Blu-ray you can certainly spend your money way worse. If you don't mind subtitles, that is.

The recent "Tuntemato sotilas", or Unknown Soldier, as the publisher titled the author's (a veteran himself) simple original title of "A War Novel", is the closest to match it. It's been filmed three times, the book is our "From Here to Eternity", in a way. This is available in Amazon Prime, as the movie version. Prime lists its running time at 3 hrs, which seems to indicate it is the longer version, there was a shorter, international version too, which I prefer as a movie as it stays more focused following Cpl Rokka's warpath. The version to look for is the five part TV-series, as that allows more time for all the characters to become alive. So if there is an option, grab that one instead. Amazon.com only seems to have a Region 2 (Europe) version, unfortunately.

Here's the UK trailer with subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmhpUXaOwZw

Next, I'd actually visit our Estonian friends south of the Gulf, with the excellent "1944" depicting the tragic faith of a small nation caught between to diabolical regimes. The movie works rather well especially at times when it shows Estonians at both sides of the front line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDMzeKymx78

Back to Finnish movies, I'd list the moody "Rukajärven tie", Road to Lake Rukajärvi, or, iditiotically: The Ambush, as my third favorite. It depicts Ltn Perkoila's recon platoon doing what recce does on the 1941 advance in Norhthern Finland. Ltn and Mrs Perkoila, a lotta auxiliary getting caught in the front where his hubby (Peter Franzen of HBO's The Vikings fame) fights are played by a real life couple too, and perhaps instead of a pure war movie this is rather a movie of people at war. Nah, it is a war movie. Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEQJwlQ1DGM

Then, an (even) small(er) budget films, depicting the part the Swedish speaking minority played at war: "Etulinjan edessä", At the Front of the Front Lines (or something like that): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgfcPzoAIfo

Then there's the "Tali-Ihantala 1944", a movie everyone here wanted to be great, and it sucked. It is not a movie, but plays rather as re-enactments of four, five key battles at Karelian front in 1944. All the gear is immaculate, as is the case typically in Finnish War movies. The true stars of this movie are the still working WW2 tanks from the local Armour Museum: a few Stug-IIIs, T-34s, Kv-1s, even a SU-155.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9IEQYlpFlQ

It seems that movie has also been marketed under name of "Battle for Finland". Meh. Here's one of the Stug-III sequences, so maybe just watch this and save your money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtZBlvvoLdc

There's a good few black/white movies, some rather nice, but I won't list them.




Campaign Series Legion | CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 | CS: Middle East 1948-1985

CS: Vietnam DAR: LZ Albany as NVA (South Vietnam 11/17/65)  
CS: Middle East AARs: High Water Mark (Syria 10/12/73) Me vs Berto | Riptide (Libya 8/6/85) Me vs Berto | The Crossroads (West Bank 6/5/67)  Me vs Berto

Boardgame AARs: AH D-Day | MMP PanzerBlitz2 Carentan | OSS Putin's Northern War | GMT Next War: Poland | LnL Against the Odds DIY

Gusington

^That is some list right there, thanks!


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Crossroads

#26
Quote from: Gusington on May 12, 2020, 10:12:03 AM
^That is some list right there, thanks!
I always appreciate when people come up with lists like this so hopefully there were some new gems for us groggies there. I had a few hours to myself yesterday and watched the Estonian made "1944" again. A great watch it is.

Oops, it is available at Amazon Prime. Recommended viewing  :bd:

Edit2: Apparently only available with an awful dubbing job to English.
Campaign Series Legion | CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 | CS: Middle East 1948-1985

CS: Vietnam DAR: LZ Albany as NVA (South Vietnam 11/17/65)  
CS: Middle East AARs: High Water Mark (Syria 10/12/73) Me vs Berto | Riptide (Libya 8/6/85) Me vs Berto | The Crossroads (West Bank 6/5/67)  Me vs Berto

Boardgame AARs: AH D-Day | MMP PanzerBlitz2 Carentan | OSS Putin's Northern War | GMT Next War: Poland | LnL Against the Odds DIY

Gusington

HA dubbing. Why not just caption it?


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Father Ted

One to ignore (IMO) is titled "1944: the Final Defence".  I managed at 10 minutes of it.

Crossroads

#29
Quote from: Father Ted on May 13, 2020, 01:02:45 PM
One to ignore (IMO) is titled "1944: the Final Defence".  I managed at 10 minutes of it.
Wow, yet another marketing name for Tali Ihantala 1944 / Battle for Finland. Agreed, a film of five reenactments, put together and marketed as a movie. It is a great shame, given the period gear they had at their disposal. Case in point is the FW-190 full sized replica they managed go borrow - and show it for a full five seconds or something like that. To film's credit, unfortunately the senior director Lindman died apparently at quite an early stage, that might explain why this plays more like some sort of documentary.

To make up for your pain, here's a filming of the filming piece with two working Stug-IIIs driving around. What cool AFVs they are.

https://youtu.be/WnJvo1RTlmY
Campaign Series Legion | CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 | CS: Middle East 1948-1985

CS: Vietnam DAR: LZ Albany as NVA (South Vietnam 11/17/65)  
CS: Middle East AARs: High Water Mark (Syria 10/12/73) Me vs Berto | Riptide (Libya 8/6/85) Me vs Berto | The Crossroads (West Bank 6/5/67)  Me vs Berto

Boardgame AARs: AH D-Day | MMP PanzerBlitz2 Carentan | OSS Putin's Northern War | GMT Next War: Poland | LnL Against the Odds DIY