For anyone who is interested, AI War 2 is released from Early Access and is 40% off until November 1.
:smitten:
Quote from: solops on October 22, 2019, 10:31:56 PM
For anyone who is interested, AI War 2 is released from Early Access and is 40% off until November 1.
If you have AI war Fleet Command on Steam you will have received a 25% off coupon in your inventory.
You can combine this with the 40% off !!
Oh. In that case its pretty much a nobrainer.
Even though I hardly played AI War 1
I just cannot get into these games no matter how hard I try. I don't know why...they are so beloved by so many dedicated fans, but they do absolutely nothing for me. They just don't feel like true space strategy or rts games.
Yes, I ended up buying it for $10 after discounts!
I am reasonably sure I have played less than five minutes of the original game. :hide:
I bought it for around $10 with the discounts and tax also. Played the first about 20 hours so it will be easy to get my moneys worth if it's any fun at all.
I need to make some space in my schedule for this one. I played the shit out of AI War: Fleet Command back in the day (in fact I was one of the early testers) and absolutely loved it. All I need from AI War 2 is better graphics and I'll be happy!
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 23, 2019, 06:23:39 AM
I just cannot get into these games no matter how hard I try. I don't know why...they are so beloved by so many dedicated fans, but they do absolutely nothing for me. They just don't feel like true space strategy or rts games.
I get that. To me, it's not really a "space strategy/rts" in the traditional sense, but more of a "space rebellion simulator with heavy tower defense elements," which is a very different itch to scratch compared to Homeworld or Sins of a Solar Empire. It probably doesn't help that your units are unmanned drones, as that's often a turn-off for me in these types of games.
For me, I would always get reaaaaally into a playthrough of the first game until I'd get over-confident and start getting stomped by the AI overlords, then drop the game for a year+ before touching it again. I expect this to be more of the same.
Is AI War the series that is ridiculously difficult?
Nah, there's just a lot to it. The original game received a gazillion expansions, every one of which introduced several new things.
The biggest difference between AI War and other space strategy games is that it's so lop-sided. You've already lost the war, and the AI has taken over the whole galaxy. It no longer considers you a threat, so your strategy is to poke holes in the gigantic hive and thread your way to victory. Poke too much, disturb the AI too much, and it crushes you.
Sounds like my every day life.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 23, 2019, 06:23:39 AM
I just cannot get into these games no matter how hard I try. I don't know why...they are so beloved by so many dedicated fans, but they do absolutely nothing for me. They just don't feel like true space strategy or rts games.
++1
And yet....I still bought it!!!
I had a rare epiphany and held off buying it today. Yay me!
I've played the first few tutorials. It seems the emphasis has shifted to fleet control. You create a fleet by building a flagship and assigning units to it. It will then build those units (if in range of factories) until it has a full complement. This even works with command stations; build a command station at a neutral planet to simultaneously take control of the planet and immediately build a full complement of resource harvesters. Nice!
Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 24, 2019, 07:34:53 AM
I've played the first few tutorials. It seems the emphasis has shifted to fleet control. You create a fleet by building a flagship and assigning units to it. It will then build those units (if in range of factories) until it has a full complement. This even works with command stations; build a command station at a neutral planet to simultaneously take control of the planet and immediately build a full complement of resource harvesters. Nice!
There are a handful of games that use auto build fleet mechanics. I really appreciate it when they do. Star Rulers 2 did the same.
Would love a more detailed review after you've had a more detailed look at it. I loved the original game, before becoming to the ultimate conclusion after 200+ hours of play that the expansions were making the game crush itself under its own complexity.
That, or I just wasn't smart enough for it!
;D
Where do you get the additional 10% off if I have the original game?
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on October 24, 2019, 08:20:37 AM
Would love a more detailed review after you've had a more detailed look at it.
Will do!
QuoteI loved the original game, before becoming to the ultimate conclusion after 200+ hours of play that the expansions were making the game crush itself under its own complexity.
Honestly, speaking as a massive fan of Arcen Games, I have to admit this is completely true. The original game became over-engineered to the point of insanity.
QuoteWhere do you get the additional 10% off if I have the original game?
I have a 25% off coupon in my Steam inventory which says "for owners of other games in the series". So check there.
Quote from: Yskonyn on October 23, 2019, 07:42:51 PM
I had a rare epiphany and held off buying it today. Yay me!
There's always tomorrow.
OK I've done the tutorials and played just a tiny bit of a quickstart campaign.
My initial, loose and not at all organised, impressions are as follows:
In typical Arcen Games style, Chris really wants you to understand and enjoy the game. The "how do I play" section is absolutely littered with well-anticipated questions organised into categories for newcomers to the series as well as veterans. They really help explain the fundamentals for noobs, and what's new (and different) for vets.
Even more so than the first game, AI War 2 is about strategy, strategy, strategy. AG has done an excellent job of streamlining everything, to the point where you're either directing fleets or thinking about your strategy. There are firm rules governing what intel you have on the planets of the galaxy and there are several game mechanics directly related to gathering more intel. As with the first game, capturing key assets is a major component of gameplay. Thus, a large part of what you do is plotting your route through the galaxy, assigning priorities to various targets (I need that chokepoint over here, I need that neutral capital ship over there, how angry will I make the AI if I acquire this base, and so on).
Just as the first game, a huge aspect is the AI alertness. Remember, the AI has already won the (first) war and it owns the whole galaxy. Every victory you win makes it more alert to your presence. More alertness means more incursions into your space, and better fleets fielded against you. The only way to win (as far as I know so far, at least) is to take out the AI overlord, hidden somewhere within the galaxy. To accomplish this you need to thread your path to it very carefully. Conquer too few planets and you won't have the resources to take on the overlord; conquer too many and the AI will rise up and crush you remorselessly.
I'm really enjoying it so far. It definitely feels like an upgrade to AI War: Fleet Command; everything is so much more streamlined, there are loads of new ideas, your central focus has been, well, refocused. But at the same time it's the game we all know and love. Vets of the first game will feel right at home, but conversely, AI War 2 will probably not win too many new fans.
Any niggles? Sure, there are a few at the moment, mainly around the UI - albeit nothing major whatsoever. But this is Arcen Games. Even a casual observer knows that 1.0 is just the very beginning, and this game will be supported for a very, very long time. Thus I don't want to talk about the niggles yet. I will, however, point out any major flaws if I happen upon any.
One last note: multiplayer is coming, and will be added H1 2020.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 24, 2019, 06:12:38 PM
AI War 2 will probably not win too many new fans.
I might have to revise this statement!
I've heard so many people say they couldn't get into the first game because of how complicated it was. It cannot be emphasised enough how streamlined the gameplay has become with this sequel. You don't even have to order unit construction. You just have set fleet templates and as long as they have any unit creators nearby, they will constantly replenish themselves.
In addition to that, there is a brilliant "intel" tab on the sidebar. This is an actual guiding light. Seasoned players can ignore it but for noobs it's a godsend. It's basically a portfolio of ideas. "You should take this system to gain a new fleet", or "you should hack this station to gain a new ship line on your existing fleet", and so on. It's absolutely brilliant. It's almost reminiscent of Distant Worlds which, given enough autonomy will play itself. The AI almost tells you how to beat it, haha.
I've also realised how much improved the sound effects are; combat sounds
meaty and I'll never tire of the sound of ships blowing up. The visual effect improvements are welcome too; battles look quite pretty now, with various weapon effects littering the skies as fleets clash.
I'm loving this game.
Edit: I'm playing my first campaign as aggressively as possible just to see how the AI reacts. Sure enough, after taking world after world, the AI is truly rising up and I have all I can do to defend the worlds I have. You do
not want to piss the AI off in this game!
I haven't had a lot of time to play this yet because I went away for the weekend, but here are a few more thoughts.
One of the biggest differences between AI War 2 and similar games is that you don't just build units and add them to fleets. Fleets in this game have set templates, and as long as they have producer units in range their numbers will be constantly replenished up to their caps. So you will have "mobile strike 1" which might have 40 fighters, 30 bombers, a frigate, 25 close-range specialists and a forcefield ship. Generally these numbers and ship types will not change. That's your fleet, from the moment you get it until the end of the game.
However, you can swap "ship lines" between fleets. Perhaps you don't want the bombers in mobile strike 1 - you can swap them with, say, another line of fighters from fleet 2 or 3 or whatever. You can also gain extra ship lines at enemy worlds, by at least two methods I know of. And you can of course gain more fleets - this is done by conquering enemy worlds that have available neutral fleets.
This takes some getting used to at first - even for veterans of the first game - but overall I like this mechanic because not only does it add to the streamlining of the game (there's no ship micromanagement whatsoever), but also it adds to the general emphasis on overall strategy. Capturing a new fleet, or gaining new ship lines for existing fleets, become excellent reasons to capture planets you've identified. As I've said before, this game really is all about strategy. Everything you do is in support of your next strategic objective, chosen carefully from what you know of the galaxy map and weighed against the increase in AI alertness should you take the objective.
I wanted to address something here too. I've heard it said many times, here and elsewhere, that the AI War games are tower defense hybrids. No. No they are not. It's true that you can build turrets to cover wormholes into friendly space, but that's a minor aspect of the gameplay and something you do once then forget about. It's no different from any other RTS where you place a fixed emplacement to cover a chokepoint. That's all you're doing here. The emphasis is very much on fleet combat.
Anyway, I will carry on with the impressions as I play more.
Thotimx has a very good beginner series on AI War 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EPSLCjBVX8
Thanks for the feedback, Huw! Good to know.
I picked this through GOG the other day at a nice discount (thanks to owing the first AI War), in the hopes that I might actually play it someday. ::) I'm sure the streamlining will be a turn-off to some of the more hardcore fans of the original, but I personally welcome it, as I admittedly found the first one a bit overwhelming.
AI War 2 is free through Gog Connect for the next ~2 days...
https://www.gog.com/connect?pp=a93c168323147d1135503939396cac628dc194c5
...never mind.
Quote from: steve58 on November 02, 2019, 04:48:04 PM
AI War 2 is free through Gog Connect for the next ~2 days...
That might be a bit misleading - it just means if you already own it on Steam you can also add it to your GOG library.
Yeah, my bad. Just was going by what, isthereanydeal.com posted.
Thanks steve58. GoG are not very good at informing their customers. GoG connect has been dead so long that I'd set my profile private.
Been out of the loop for a while, apologies for the absence Grogs..
If anyone is interested in getting a 30 minute quick-intro on the game, Rob from eXplorminate site/podcast does a decent job in conveying the basics:
https://invidio.us/watch?v=9q4cs6YT7bU (https://invidio.us/watch?v=9q4cs6YT7bU)
https://explorminate.co/ (https://explorminate.co/)
I was playing AIWar2 yesterday after familiarisation with above vid, and I must say, its really come on to a point where its fully
fledged. I backed it at Kickstarter (twice) and have seen it in its various forms of creation and it has been a rough ride for 3 years
but its now out, proper release like, and it plays smooth as butter. I had to use the OpenGL option rather than the more experimental
VulcanK graphics for my Linux box, but really enjoyed the cut and thrust of it, especially the new way fleets are managed.
The original AIWar used to make you group ships by type, create control groups and do the standard RTS micro-management thing. AIWar2 gives you a fleet with a capital ship and 6 slots with other ship types in it. They all embark and disembark from the capital ship as you deploy them as a whole. You can still ship type select and utilise different ships in different tactical ways, but being able to co-ordinate an offensive fleet with a support fleet behind it and as you capture new capital ships and/or new tech ships you can build a
custom fleet composition that serves a particular purpose. It's much better in my opinion, more like Kohan did it, where your fighting
force is a configurable collection that works together almost autonomously. You are then free from the micro to make the broad strokes of sweeping tactics and you're not bogged down with moving a myriad of control group ship types.
Some lovely watchmen style guardian ships at your vulnerable bases, with tractor beam pylons and auto turrets for defense, force shield generators.. You have the offensive to wage, delicately so as not to aggravate the AI too early on and you have a tower defense like game of making sure your supply bases and lines are protected.
Multiplayer isn't in yet, but it is on the way.
Also, good podcast interview here with the developer Chris Park on AI War 2 and its development as well as a look into the world of Arcen Games and their torrid trajectory for the last 10 years.
https://explorminate.co/chris-park-of-arcen-games-podcast-interview/ (https://explorminate.co/chris-park-of-arcen-games-podcast-interview/)
Top stuff.
Oh I've just read some of huw's comments, here's my thoughts..
1) Fleet Capital Ships - I was under the impression you can tweak their ship composition, so if you research and/or capture new ship types you can swap them in to the 6 slots under the capital ships control. But also you can capture new capital ships with different ship types and customise them with the new types and/or swap in some of the old types. Also, I think the variants on Capital ships are dependant upon your starting options and what you turn on or off.
2) Tower Defense thing - yeah it isn't a tower defense game even at your base, other than you can set up static turret defenses, have ship combinations, force fields and tractor beam "root" or concussion platforms that will slow or hold the waves of enemy coming in. So if you hear TD describing this game, there are hints of defensive turtling play afforded to your systems - but better methods of control are using the wormhole entry points and capturing neighbouring systems to prevent travel direct to your main captured systems (minerals/logistics/military).
I do like the "hacking" aspects to the game, nostalgia for the Battlestar Galactica Deadlock Cylon hackery.
The Kohan comparison piqued my interest even more! O0
(...I mean, I'm pretty sure I insta-bought it anyway already on release, so it isn't like my interest has to be piqued much more since they've got my money... ;) )
Quote from: Geezer on October 29, 2019, 11:42:43 AM
Thotimx has a very good beginner series on AI War 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EPSLCjBVX8
Yeah he's started a good run through called "The Real War", where he is expanding on the details
https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=wpwXLg4VFJk
I'm still trying to work out how to effectively bring the AI aggro back down after elevating it when taking a planet.
Found my first Thanatos Ark ship that does the parasitic "Zombiefication" of enemy vessels - and it looks real groovey.
Got an picture of it on my mastodon account:
https://linuxrocks.online/@spelk/103194234808527426
Yup, Thotimx videos are top shelf.