Hard science sci-fi. Logistics. Realistic size engagements due to economic reality. Early access in June. It all sounds good to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBOreVx6Z1M&feature=emb_rel_end
This game looks good. I'm wishlisting this one for sure.
I'd seen this somewhere recently, can't remember where. But it does look very interesting.
Sexy!
Love everything except the asteroids. Why claim hard sci-fi while persisting in creating space terrain that can't exist in actual space?
Z axis?
Quote from: bobarossa on February 15, 2021, 07:23:38 PM
Love everything except the asteroids. Why claim hard sci-fi while persisting in creating space terrain that can't exist in actual space?
I may be mistaken but I think that what you're saying is that there're no asteroids in interstellar space because there's nothing for them to orbit. If that's what you're saying, I agree but then again, I assume that all the mining and battles etc. are taking place within various solar systems. As I said, I may be mistaken or misunderstand your point.
ok. Just noticed it's single player. That is a real shame. :( Traditional RTS games generally have coop vs AI.
Already had this on my wishlist as well. Strange.
Quote from: Millipede on February 15, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
Quote from: bobarossa on February 15, 2021, 07:23:38 PM
Love everything except the asteroids. Why claim hard sci-fi while persisting in creating space terrain that can't exist in actual space?
I may be mistaken but I think that what you're saying is that there're no asteroids in interstellar space because there's nothing for them to orbit. If that's what you're saying, I agree but then again, I assume that all the mining and battles etc. are taking place within various solar systems. As I said, I may be mistaken or misunderstand your point.
From the University of Warwick https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/knowledgecentre/science/maths-statistics/starwarsasteroid
"Diagrams of the asteroids show an awful lot of dots jammed into a small ring-shaped region, pretty much bumping into each other. But even the largest asteroid, Ceres, would be totally invisible if its dot were to scale. The asteroid belt spans an awful lot of space, but contains relatively few asteroids. A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation bears this out. The asteroid belt lies between 320 million and 480 million kilometres from the Sun. Like the planets, most asteroids orbit close to the same plane, the ecliptic. The total area of the ecliptic occupied by the asteroid belt is about 400 quadrillion square kilometres. If you share that among 150 million rocks, the typical distance between neighbouring asteroids turns out to be 30,000 kilometres. Roughly two and a half times the diameter of the Earth."
I had read something about this years ago. The typical sci-fi asteroid belt is simply unsustainable. All those tumbling rock should either clump together from their own gravity or grind themselves into smaller and smaller pieces and become dust.
Looks nice.....wait and see
Quote from: bobarossa on February 16, 2021, 08:01:45 AM
Quote from: Millipede on February 15, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
Quote from: bobarossa on February 15, 2021, 07:23:38 PM
Love everything except the asteroids. Why claim hard sci-fi while persisting in creating space terrain that can't exist in actual space?
I may be mistaken but I think that what you're saying is that there're no asteroids in interstellar space because there's nothing for them to orbit. If that's what you're saying, I agree but then again, I assume that all the mining and battles etc. are taking place within various solar systems. As I said, I may be mistaken or misunderstand your point.
From the University of Warwick https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/knowledgecentre/science/maths-statistics/starwarsasteroid
"Diagrams of the asteroids show an awful lot of dots jammed into a small ring-shaped region, pretty much bumping into each other. But even the largest asteroid, Ceres, would be totally invisible if its dot were to scale. The asteroid belt spans an awful lot of space, but contains relatively few asteroids. A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation bears this out. The asteroid belt lies between 320 million and 480 million kilometres from the Sun. Like the planets, most asteroids orbit close to the same plane, the ecliptic. The total area of the ecliptic occupied by the asteroid belt is about 400 quadrillion square kilometres. If you share that among 150 million rocks, the typical distance between neighbouring asteroids turns out to be 30,000 kilometres. Roughly two and a half times the diameter of the Earth."
I had read something about this years ago. The typical sci-fi asteroid belt is simply unsustainable. All those tumbling rock should either clump together from their own gravity or grind themselves into smaller and smaller pieces and become dust.
Good info! Thanks.
Edit...
Hmmm... thinking about this a little bit more, both JAXA and NASA have rendezvoused and interacted with asteroids, and the article that you referenced specifically mentions Ceres, so we know asteroids are out there and we know where they are so why is it not possible to mine them and/or use them tactically in combat situations? Again, perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.
I get the sense that the problem he's got is either just the disproportionate scale and/or the idea that asteroids can be meaningful terrain in space. I tend to agree with the idea that the scale is wrong, but in reality the speeds are all relative, right? I mean how fast does the IIS orbit the earth? Suddenly the 30,000km average distance between asteroids isn't so vast. I'm generally willing to overlook things like this in a game. Weirder for me is seeing 3D space depicted in 2D. Sure, most things orbit on a plane, but there is still above and below the plane, no?
I'm currently playing High Frontier - a board game based on hard science - take a look at the map for it - https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition (https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition) a 2d representation of the solar system with "distances" shown by a mix of orbits/energy required to get there - a work of art (or science) by a real rocket scientist. What I guess I'm saying is that this stuff can be abstracted to a large degree whilst still remaining realistic, at least in game terms.
I'll be following this one.
Ever since the original Star Wars came out, movies and games have been using groups of asteroids to provide a space terrain for battles to be fought in. I'm just saying that for a 'hard-sci-fi" game, this is not realistic. Groups of asteroids simply aren't that close together. The game video is showing ships plowing through asteroids during a battle (that will leave a mark) and having enemy ships going in and out of view. I can see ships playing hide a seek around a single large asteroid but I doubt they could ever experience a battle like in the video. I'm not saying my problem with asteroid groups is a game killer. I hope to play the game when it gets farther into development. The emphasis on logistics reminds me of Aurora where you would worry about running out of missiles during an engagement.
Quote from: bobarossa on February 16, 2021, 03:08:48 PM
Ever since the original Star Wars came out, movies and games have been using groups of asteroids to provide a space terrain for battles to be fought in. I'm just saying that for a 'hard-sci-fi" game, this is not realistic. Groups of asteroids simply aren't that close together. The game video is showing ships plowing through asteroids during a battle (that will leave a mark) and having enemy ships going in and out of view. I can see ships playing hide a seek around a single large asteroid but I doubt they could ever experience a battle like in the video. I'm not saying my problem with asteroid groups is a game killer. I hope to play the game when it gets farther into development. The emphasis on logistics reminds me of Aurora where you would worry about running out of missiles during an engagement.
Okay, gotcha. I completely understand (a little slow on my part) what you're saying and completely agree with your perspective. On the other hand, any developer has to walk that fine line between reality and entertainment. Once the game is released, we'll see how they did.
Quote from: Phantom on February 16, 2021, 02:57:07 PM
I'm currently playing High Frontier - a board game based on hard science - take a look at the map for it - https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition (https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition) a 2d representation of the solar system with "distances" shown by a mix of orbits/energy required to get there - a work of art (or science) by a real rocket scientist. What I guess I'm saying is that this stuff can be abstracted to a large degree whilst still remaining realistic, at least in game terms.
I'll be following this one.
Another HF player here! Excellent game!
I have no comments on the actual topic, sorry. ;D
Quote from: Phantom on February 16, 2021, 02:57:07 PMtake a look at the map for it - https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition (https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition)
Holy mother of god...
Quote from: hellfish6 on February 16, 2021, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Phantom on February 16, 2021, 02:57:07 PMtake a look at the map for it - https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition (https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition)
Holy mother of god...
That map must have all 150 million of those rocks in the asteroid belt on it.
I'm also very much looking forward to this one. Been in touch with the devs about it.
Quote from: bobarossa on February 16, 2021, 10:24:02 PM
Quote from: hellfish6 on February 16, 2021, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Phantom on February 16, 2021, 02:57:07 PMtake a look at the map for it - https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition (https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition)
Holy mother of god...
That map must have all 150 million of those rocks in the asteroid belt on it.
The map is a peach, but what is most impressive is how it works, somehow the designer - Phil Eklund - has managed to combine a 3 dimensional system of orbits & gravity, by definition in constant movement, into a 2d static map that actually reflects that complex environment. Its really clever stuff, in fact, rocket science! Believe it or not once you've got the mechanics worked out its quite easy to use.
I love smart design in games, making the complex simple, and this is a great example.
Regarding the asteroid belt: Maybe we should just call it 'crunchy sci-fi' rather than hard sci-fi? Because, you know, it's hard in places...
Quote
HOODED HORSE TO PUBLISH FALLING FRONTIER, RELEASE DELAYED TO LATE 2021
DALLAS – 27th April 2021 – Hooded Horse™ announced it will publish Falling Frontier™, a sci-fi RTS title developed by Stutter Fox Studios™. Falling Frontier was previously scheduled for a June 2021 Early Access release but has been delayed until late 2021 to allow additional development time to fully realize Falling Frontier's potential. In addition to English, Falling Frontier will now also release in German, French, Spanish, Japanese, Traditional Chinese, and Simplified Chinese.
"Falling Frontier is the future of the RTS genre," said Tim Bender, CEO of Hooded Horse. "There has been increasing interest in a revival of RTS games these past several years, with several companies attempting to recapture the magic of those early titles of the 1990s and 2000s. But Falling Frontier is instead looking forward—to everything that the RTS genre could become. Intel, logistics—the kinds of depth usually associated with the 4x or grand strategy genres—are seamlessly integrated as core gameplay mechanics, while still retaining the excitement and charm of the classic RTS experience."
In Falling Frontier players will explore a vast procedurally generated star system filled with planets, moons, asteroid fields, and nebulae. The game includes a detailed intel system, complete with recon stations, scout ships, and probes, which all are influenced by planetary bodies and stellar phenomena and present trade-offs in the choice between active and passive scanning modes.
There is also no global resource system, and instead all raw materials and supplies must be delivered where needed. The logistics system extends to resupply of combat ships, and a strike force that neglects to protect its supply lines or is cut off in enemy territory may find itself without adequate ammunition for defense or fuel to escape, or, at the extreme, with a crew slowly starving in the void of space.
"We are thrilled by what this new collaboration means for Falling Frontier," said Todd D'Arcy, founder of Stutter Fox Studios. "Hooded Horse's focus on strategy games makes it an ideal partner for our studio, and the additional development time will allow Falling Frontier's Early Access release to live up to its full promise of offering players a distinctly new kind of RTS experience. For example, in order to step outside the standard RTS formula of chasing numerical advantage, we are modelling the strategic terrain of a realistic star system. Players can attempt to hide their ships behind a planet or moon, mask their heat signature near a gas giant or star, or launch an ambush from within an asteroid field or nebula."
To celebrate the announcement, Stutter Fox Studios has released a new Falling Frontier trailer showcasing the game's nebulae. These beautiful stellar phenomena both disrupt scanning technology and render jump drives inoperable, presenting the ideal terrain for laying an ambush. The new trailer also features an in-game cinematic reveal of the new battlecruiser dropping out of a jump conduit and deploying a pair of fighter craft.
Falling Frontier will release in late 2021 for PC and is available to be wishlisted on Steam.
About Falling Frontier™:
Falling Frontier is a sci-fi real-time strategy game developed by Stutter Fox Studios and published by Hooded Horse. Players explore and conquer a vast procedurally generated star system where intel and logistics are decisive factors. Falling Frontier is set for a late 2021 release on PC and can be found on Steam.
About Stutter Fox Studios™:
Stutter Fox Studios is a Melbourne, Australia development studio devoted to creating innovative strategy games. Stutter Fox Studios is currently developing the real-time strategy game Falling Frontier.
About Hooded Horse™:
Hooded Horse Inc. is a publisher of strategy, simulation, and role-playing games based in Dallas, Texas. Hooded Horse is the publisher of Terra Invicta, developed by the Long War mod creators Pavonis Interactive; Alliance of the Sacred Suns, developed by KatHawk Studios; and Falling Frontier, developed by Stutter Fox Studios.
Just took a quick look at the Falling Frontier page on Steam. Two things jumped out at me.
Lots of eye candy, but the map is in two dimensions. Solar systems can be fairly flat, but I would expect a few odd-ball planets and asteroids that orbit on a different plane.
The orbital path for each planet seems to be marked out, and is perfectly circular. Do all of these planets only have one season ?
Do the planets and moons in that game actually orbit anything, or are they a completely static conceptual representation? I asked the question in the Steam forum and don't really expect to get a reply.
One of the things that makes space combat interesting is that everything moves and shifts relative positions, albeit slowly. I remember a game from the bad old days of the eighties that involved moving around in and exploring a single star system, and because of differing orbits and speeds, sometimes two planets would be close together and sometimes they would be far apart. And sometimes the quickest path between two planets would involve taking off and going away from your destination planet, and catching up with it as it moved towards you coming around the sun.
12-minute gameplay reveal from the campaign.
Looks very cool.
Any word on release date?
Quote from: Philippe on April 27, 2021, 12:46:02 PM
The orbital path for each planet seems to be marked out, and is perfectly circular. Do all of these planets only have one season ?
As I understand it seasons are a result of the tilting of a planet's axis of rotation relative to its orbital path rather than the eccentricity of the orbit.
release delayed to 2025
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1280190
Quote from: mbar on November 29, 2023, 02:18:00 PMrelease delayed to 2025
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1280190
Yikes, seems like very little releases per original plans nowadays...
2025!?!?!
I'll be 51 :undecided:
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 29, 2023, 08:22:06 PM2025!?!?!
It's strange that the company thought they were releasing in 2023 until recently, how can they have thought that was possible and then turn around and say they are a year or so away? Seems like they would have known that for some time...kind of company that I am not sure I would trust. I understand the person had health issues which I understand, but seems like that was not just sudden,
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on November 29, 2023, 08:39:45 PMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on November 29, 2023, 08:22:06 PM2025!?!?!
It's strange that the company thought they were releasing in 2023 until recently, how can they have thought that was possible and then turn around and say they are a year or so away? Seems like they would have known that for some time...kind of company that I am not sure I would trust. I understand the person had health issues which I understand, but seems like that was not just sudden,
Your concerns assume we'd be able to share something the instant we knew there may be a problem, when in fact it's a very lengthy process to determine if there is a problem, determine how long it may take for the problem to resolve itself, what that means for development, and then what we should ultimately do about it based on what the developer's needs and expectations are. In this case, it wasn't a simple matter of just giving him a few more months or just rolling things over to 2024.
Moving the date to 2025 gives the dev plenty of time to recover, and then get back on track and work at a pace that's good for both him and the project. And while this was being discussed, there was no point changing the message or the Steam page.
So no, it wasn't just sudden, but we shared the moment we had something definitive to share.
Quote from: HoodedHorseJoe on November 30, 2023, 05:16:51 AMQuote from: Grim.Reaper on November 29, 2023, 08:39:45 PMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on November 29, 2023, 08:22:06 PM2025!?!?!
It's strange that the company thought they were releasing in 2023 until recently, how can they have thought that was possible and then turn around and say they are a year or so away? Seems like they would have known that for some time...kind of company that I am not sure I would trust. I understand the person had health issues which I understand, but seems like that was not just sudden,
Your concerns assume we'd be able to share something the instant we knew there may be a problem, when in fact it's a very lengthy process to determine if there is a problem, determine how long it may take for the problem to resolve itself, what that means for development, and then what we should ultimately do about it based on what the developer's needs and expectations are. In this case, it wasn't a simple matter of just giving him a few more months or just rolling things over to 2024.
Moving the date to 2025 gives the dev plenty of time to recover, and then get back on track and work at a pace that's good for both him and the project. And while this was being discussed, there was no point changing the message or the Steam page.
So no, it wasn't just sudden, but we shared the moment we had something definitive to share.
That actually was the point of my comment, I didn't think it was sudden, I speculated it was known that 2023 wasn't going to happen behind the scenes, and future customers were under the impression the release was closer than it was, certainly not expecting to hear 2025, which can mean anywhere from 1-2 years depending on when in 2025. And yes I understand you had to finalize things before going public but unless I am reading people's comments wrong, which I could be, seems like people imply information that had been coming out recently did nothing to provide any hints so can understand the surprise.
With that said, my comment about trust is more about whether this will be the last delay or will eventually get released, only time will tell as nobody can predict the future 1-2 years away. Certainly wish the developer good health and hope he is able to release his game someday.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on November 30, 2023, 06:09:22 AMQuote from: HoodedHorseJoe on November 30, 2023, 05:16:51 AMQuote from: Grim.Reaper on November 29, 2023, 08:39:45 PMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on November 29, 2023, 08:22:06 PM2025!?!?!
It's strange that the company thought they were releasing in 2023 until recently, how can they have thought that was possible and then turn around and say they are a year or so away? Seems like they would have known that for some time...kind of company that I am not sure I would trust. I understand the person had health issues which I understand, but seems like that was not just sudden,
Your concerns assume we'd be able to share something the instant we knew there may be a problem, when in fact it's a very lengthy process to determine if there is a problem, determine how long it may take for the problem to resolve itself, what that means for development, and then what we should ultimately do about it based on what the developer's needs and expectations are. In this case, it wasn't a simple matter of just giving him a few more months or just rolling things over to 2024.
Moving the date to 2025 gives the dev plenty of time to recover, and then get back on track and work at a pace that's good for both him and the project. And while this was being discussed, there was no point changing the message or the Steam page.
So no, it wasn't just sudden, but we shared the moment we had something definitive to share.
That actually was the point of my comment, I didn't think it was sudden, I speculated it was known that 2023 wasn't going to happen behind the scenes, and future customers were under the impression the release was closer than it was, certainly not expecting to hear 2025, which can mean anywhere from 1-2 years depending on when in 2025. And yes I understand you had to finalize things before going public but unless I am reading people's comments wrong, which I could be, seems like people imply information that had been coming out recently did nothing to provide any hints so can understand the surprise.
With that said, my comment about trust is more about whether this will be the last delay or will eventually get released, only time will tell as nobody can predict the future 1-2 years away. Certainly wish the developer good health and hope he is able to release his game someday.
I fully agree, when a game is originally advertised as being slated for early access in 2021, and then two and a half years later it's announced suddenly that there's an additional two year delay, it raises real questions with regard to transparency and realism at the very least. I'm hard pressed to think of many games with serial multi-year delays like this that have turned out well, or even released (examples: In The Black, All American: The 82nd Airborne in Normandy, The Tactical Art of Combat).
I've had Falling Frontier on my Steam wish list for some time now. Though it's disappointing to know that I'll have to continue waiting, I tend to be gracious toward small developers concerning timelines. Just now looking at my wish list I realize that Hooded Horse is publishing many of the games in my library and on my wish list, who I appreciate for backing the type of games I buy and play.