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Hearts of Iron IV

Started by Ian C, May 13, 2016, 01:07:15 PM

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FlickJax

Quote from: bboyer66 on May 19, 2016, 07:26:23 AM
Am I the only one watching these videos and getting totally turned off by them.  Hungary taking over all of Eastern Europe, and becoming a big unstoppable blob.  Is this the typical BS where if you take over a country and you get  all its population and industry without penalty?  Cant wait to see the first person who takes over the entire world with Paraguay !!!!    Seriously, it's this type of shit that is not even realistically plausible, that has turned me off from all the games in the Hearts of Iron Series. 



Dont think so, they mentioned the risks and it was a large infantry based attack.  an intervention by a major power and Hungarian empire would be doomed.

bboyer66

#76
Ya Hungary conquering half of Germany, Poland, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Austria, and whoever I forgot from the video, could totally happen !!!  ( Go to the 1 hour mark)   

FlickJax

Quote from: bboyer66 on May 19, 2016, 08:08:55 AM
Ya Hungary conquering half of Germany, Poland, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Austria, and whoever I forgot from the video, could totally happen !!!  ( Go to the 1 hour mark)

They didnt have any Germany so had just taken on weaker nations so far.

jamus34

I never understood the concept of wanting to play a game to experience something exactly the way it happened historically.

What if Poland moved first...what if France extended the maginot line through the low counties or at least their borders with them.

I like historical contexts but to me playing a historical strategic game is seeing what else could have happened
Insert witty comment here.

JudgeDredd

Quote from: jamus34 on May 19, 2016, 08:54:21 AM
I never understood the concept of wanting to play a game to experience something exactly the way it happened historically.

What if Poland moved first...what if France extended the maginot line through the low counties or at least their borders with them.

I like historical contexts but to me playing a historical strategic game is seeing what else could have happened
I don't know the ins and outs of research, development, industry, infrastructure, commerce and any other strategic attributes of any country in the run up to WWII. As I don't know any of that and the game starts around 1936 (does this one?), I'm quite happy to believe that Poland can accelerate it's research and development, increase infrastructure having an effect on finances and therefore abilities not normally attributable to them during WWII.

Does that mean Poland can take over Europe? I don't really know. Does it mean Poland might be able to fend off Germany and possible take a country here or there? I'd like to think so.

Point is - I'm with jamus - I'm not really buying this to relive history. I know how it turned out. What I want to do in the game is change history - and I don't necessarily want to play one of the big boys to do it.

I think the game suffers from this criticism because it's a WWII game. If it was set 100 years in the future, people would (should) be perfectly happy with Poland running Russia. As it's a WWII setting and there's a base there, it's often perceived that it should follow it's course.

Of course, I think there should be limitations on countries and their abilities - but it should still be possible to change history.

Finally, I remember a post mentioning a post of a friend who frequented some forums where a poster had a pal who was on some forum saying Japan was invaded by Peru. I never saw that myself and I never met anyone who actually had that happen....it was always a post of a friend who knew someone.

If the game started from 1939 and the outset of war, then the status of the countries should, I think, be as they were in WWII. But as it starts earlier, then it should open up the entire game for a whole load of what ifs.
Alba gu' brath

Barthheart

Quote from: jamus34 on May 19, 2016, 08:54:21 AM
I never understood the concept of wanting to play a game to experience something exactly the way it happened historically.

What if Poland moved first...what if France extended the maginot line through the low counties or at least their borders with them.

I like historical contexts but to me playing a historical strategic game is seeing what else could have happened

I agree with this but it has to be historically plausible... I'm with BBoyer66 on this. Hungary taking over all of those even minor countries is beyond the realm of possibility.

jomni

Noticed he almost maxed out some tech branches as early as 1938-39.

FlickJax

But Austro-Hungary did it before and more, I know wars were on a smaller scale back then but you just have to look at how quick France capitulated to Germany with a bigger army.

JudgeDredd

Quote from: Barthheart on May 19, 2016, 09:27:16 AM
Quote from: jamus34 on May 19, 2016, 08:54:21 AM
I never understood the concept of wanting to play a game to experience something exactly the way it happened historically.

What if Poland moved first...what if France extended the maginot line through the low counties or at least their borders with them.

I like historical contexts but to me playing a historical strategic game is seeing what else could have happened

I agree with this but it has to be historically plausible...
I would buy that argument though. I'd like to see some historical constraints.., but I still want to change history.

Maybe an option ('cos gamers love options) to meet historical constraints or to take the shackles off and have your starting country start at 10/20/30%.....100%+ of it's historical abilities
Alba gu' brath

sandman2575

I believe there is an option in HOI4 to have the AI follow a 'historical' path, and another option for a pure sandbox anything-can-happen campaign. I'll probably play historical more often than not.

To me, the question of "whether that could really have happened historically" boils down to this:  it's up to the player to decide what he wants to accomplish and how he wants the game to unfold. You will *always* have the advantage over the AI, no matter what. Could Hungary have conquered Eastern Europe in the 1930s? Of course not. Can a player play HOI so aggressively that he can push even minor powers to accomplish more than they could historically? Yes -- and that's always been the case with HOI.

In short, I think it will be the case that if you want HOI4 to unfold in a more historical, less implausible way, you'll have that option. If you are a 'maximalist' type player who is determined to conquer Europe as Bulgaria -- you can likely make that happen to. It's up to the player.

sandman2575

Just for the record -- I *hate* the way this kid plays HOI in the World War Wednesdays videos. He does everything at the speed of light, puts almost no deliberation into anything he does before he's already done it. It's like watching someone jacked up on speed. It's no wonder his frantic, frenetic play style leads to, let's say, less than historical outcomes.

I have no intention of playing HOI the way it's depicted in these videos.

IronX

Yes, they're hard to follow; much like many of the Stellaris videos that zoom all over the place. I guess he's played the game so much he could probably do it with his eyes closed.

Rayfer

Unless I wasn't getting it....it would seem that in the first 5 minutes of that "Hungary Conquers Europe" Wednesday video they openly state they had work-arounds (I'd have called them cheats)  that allowed them to instantly research any tech. They did so with tanks enabling them to bypass the usual time constraints and costs in constructing tank divisions. I assume that cheat won't be available for the public????  So the weird outcome of the Hungarian conquests is more understandable.

sandman2575

It's interesting -- and maybe slightly worrying -- that the 2 release trailers for HOI4 so far feature 'what if' scenarios rather than 'what really happened' -- Germany conquering UK, and Japan launching an invasion of the Soviet Union. (I'd rank a successful Operation Sea Lion as deeply improbable bordering on impossible, and a Japanese invasion of USSR as deeply idiotic -- Japan was reluctant to provoke USSR even when they were fighting for their lives against Germany -- why on earth would Japan invade a USSR that had already defeated Germany -- ?!?)

I guess I see the attraction from an advertising perspective -- "Play HOI4 and change world history!!" Still, have to admit I find the over-the-top sensationalist approach a little irritating.

bbmike

One of the Let's Play videos talked about that. Seems like you can mostly follow the "what really happened" route if you choose to or you can choose to really change things. I hope that is the case.
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