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Hearts of Iron IV

Started by Ian C, May 13, 2016, 01:07:15 PM

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sandman2575

I think the HOI4 modding scene is pretty thin at the moment, understandably. I have a couple of graphical mods installed -- NATO counters, colored buttons, historical flags, larger counters -- but the only one that in some sense affects game mechanics is the "No Army Experience for Division Design" mod.

There's some argument about whether this mod constitutes a 'cheat.' Arguably using it gives the human player an advantage over the AI (although the modder states that the same 'no experience requirement' also applies to the AI) -- but then, the human player has massive advantages over the AI to begin with. Mostly I just want to use it to be able to inject some historical realism, and because designing divisions is fun! HOI4's basic starting infantry division consists of 3 regiments of 3 infantry battalions, plus artillery and engineer companies. For majors like Germany, USA, that's simply way off. What I've been using as my "Infantry division ('39)" template is more along the lines of:

3 regiments consisting of 3 infantry battalions plus 1 artillery battalion
1 regiment of 1 artillery battalion and 1 anti-tank battalion
5 support companies:  Engineer, Reconnaissance, Artillery, Anti-tank, Anti-Air.

This gives a total manpower of around 15,000, which is much closer to the reality.

The awesome thing about the Designer too is, you can create different TOEs as the war goes on -- "Infantry Division ('39)" can look a lot differernt from "Infantry Division ('43)" if you want it to -- just as it did in real life.





RyanE

"I think many of the complaints over on the XXXXX board (and most of my own concerns) actually are due to folks not understanding how the game actually works." 

This should be the title of a stickied thread at the top of every game out there.

republic

This is the first Hearts of Iron I've ever understood.  I'm currently playing as Japan and having a great time.

RyanE

Quick question....If I'm buying on steam and only play single player; Do I need the DLCs like Cadet, Colonel, etc.?

Ian C

Quote from: RyanE on June 10, 2016, 11:56:39 AM
Quick question....If I'm buying on steam and only play single player; Do I need the DLCs like Cadet, Colonel, etc.?

Cadet is the 'basic' game. You get the Polish DLC free with it.

Fetrik

Quote from: RyanE on June 10, 2016, 11:56:39 AM
Quick question....If I'm buying on steam and only play single player; Do I need the DLCs like Cadet, Colonel, etc.?

Cadet is the base game. Colonel contains extra cosmetics, cruiser models and that sort of thing so that is only for your own enjoyment.

jamus34

And I caved after seeing Ian's last update. Damn you paradox!
Insert witty comment here.

RyanE

Quote from: Fetrik on June 10, 2016, 12:30:29 PM
Quote from: RyanE on June 10, 2016, 11:56:39 AM
Quick question....If I'm buying on steam and only play single player; Do I need the DLCs like Cadet, Colonel, etc.?

Cadet is the base game. Colonel contains extra cosmetics, cruiser models and that sort of thing so that is only for your own enjoyment.

Thanks

Pete Dero

Quote from: sandman2575 on June 10, 2016, 11:26:41 AM
the only one that in some sense affects game mechanics is the "No Army Experience for Division Design" mod.

There's some argument about whether this mod constitutes a 'cheat.'

Training your troops also generates Experience, and some cabinet members (Theorist - Mobile warfare expert) give you a certain XP per day.
So far I don't feel the need for this 'cheat'.  I think as Germany I generated about 40 XP in 1936 without entering any war (besides sending volunteers to Nationalist Spain).

These are the mods I have for the moment (just immersion) :

Flavor Names extended
Historical Coloured Loadingscreens
No fog of war (only clears the map to check the terrain - doesn't show any unit info)
Immersive Theatre Shields
[World Press Mod] New York Times (USA Democratic)
German Music Addon
Better terrain view
DzK Better Counters
Coloured Buttons
Adiya's Historical Flag Pack
More NATO counters

I went for the Marshall edition to get the first two expansions (buying on Imperial Games reduced the price for the Euro zone from 89.99 € to 60 € ; made me feel I made money while spending it)



jamus34

So here's a question...it costs you construction units when you need to import raw materials.

What do you get when you export?

N/M you can see it on the Construction screen
Insert witty comment here.

sandman2575

The "trade factory capacity for imported raw materials" mechanic is pretty unintuitive and makes no real-world sense that I can discern. I guess it serves its function as a game mechanic but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way all the same.

Ian C

Tips:

Adaptive Manoeuvres
You can take control of separate units or groups during a war plan, even while the AI is directing them. You can then use them to attack on the fly and when they've done what you ordered, they fall back in with the plan automatically.

Support Attack works just like it did on HOI3. Select unit, shift-click on area being attacked by you and it will join in, without advancing after combat. The AI will also do this for you automatically, if favourable.




jamus34

Quote from: sandman2575 on June 10, 2016, 01:38:43 PM
The "trade factory capacity for imported raw materials" mechanic is pretty unintuitive and makes no real-world sense that I can discern. I guess it serves its function as a game mechanic but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way all the same.

I look at it this way - If you run out of raw material your factories aren't going to run.

It is being abstracted that you are creating goods you don't necessarily need out of surplus raw material to sell to countries that have raw material you need and they are willing to trade back to you.

It's extremely abstracted...but in my mind it works (ie you can have all the factories in the world but without manpower and raw materials all you have is a bunch of empty buildings)

Another way to put look at it is the IC method in HOI3...you can manually boost your IC count...but if you build it to the point of outpacing raw supply you have IC inefficiencies. Here it is broken down into 6 raw materials, C Factories and M Factories.
Insert witty comment here.

sandman2575

Hmm, still not sure I follow.

As I understand it, here's how production works:

I am building fighters with some of my Military Factories. Rubber is one of the raw materials required. I'm currently running a deficit of rubber, which is hampering my production, so I ask Netherlands to trade me some of their excess rubber *in return for the use of some of my Civilian Factories*.  I'm pretty sure that's literally how the mechanic works, yes?

From a *game* standpoint I (sort of) understand what's happening. You have Military Factories that use raw materials to produce vehicles, equipment. You have Civilian Factories that produce 'consumer goods' (entirely abstracted as a fixed limit -- you have no control over this beyond the economic law you set), and 'state' improvements like Oil Refineries, infrastructure, AAA emplacements, as well as other Military and Civilian Factories  -- **and** you trade Civilian Factory capacity to other nations in return for raw materials you may lack for your Military Factories.

You need to strike a balance between having a certain number of Military Factories, and a certain number of Civilian Factories. If you have too many Military Factories, you won't have the free Civilian Factory capacity available to trade for raw materials you lack. Too many civilian factories, and your production of weapons and vehicles will slow down or grind to a halt.

So I get the balancing act that's going on here. But for the life of me, I can't figure out how such a scenario corresponds to anything like how trade and manufacturing actually works. It just seems entirely artificial. Which I can live with. It just strikes me as kind of weird.


Pete Dero

Quote from: sandman2575 on June 10, 2016, 01:38:43 PM
The "trade factory capacity for imported raw materials" mechanic is pretty unintuitive and makes no real-world sense that I can discern. I guess it serves its function as a game mechanic but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way all the same.

How I see it is you import something in return for something the people of the other country want.  Therefore you use one or more of your factories to produce those wanted goods.  While they do this you can't use them to build for yourself.   You don't give them a factory but you give them the output of that factory.  The result is the same : one less factory available for you.