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Hearts of Iron IV

Started by Ian C, May 13, 2016, 01:07:15 PM

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Con

Quote from: Hofstadter on June 10, 2016, 09:03:25 PM
This game is so wild. Went as Finland, went communist, made a communist coup in Norway and used the military access to get a better line. Allied with russia, declared war with sweden and got half of my divisions wiped out. For some reason the Chinese came to help me and rescued my other divisions. Now Ive got a heap of finnish divisions sitting on the south of sweden poised to strike into germany.

Now that is an alternative history!

Con

jomni

What version shall I buy?

Swatter

Quote from: Hofstadter on June 10, 2016, 09:03:25 PM
This game is so wild. Went as Finland, went communist, made a communist coup in Norway and used the military access to get a better line. Allied with russia, declared war with sweden and got half of my divisions wiped out. For some reason the Chinese came to help me and rescued my other divisions. Now Ive got a heap of finnish divisions sitting on the south of sweden poised to strike into germany.

I was about to pull the trigger until I read this. This is pure insanity. Not that Finland could invade Sweden, but that the Chinese can send a force to rescue you from across the world. This implies that logistics is almost non-existent. I won't even ask what national interest Nationalist China would have in your war with Sweden.

I am perfectly happy waiting for patches.

WallysWorld

I ended up buying the Colonel Edition using the 25% off code at GMG.

Many thanks for those that posted in this thread about the game.
"I used to be with it, but then they changed what *it* was. Now what I'm with isn't *it* and what *it* is seems weird and scary to me." - Abraham Simpson

Hofstadter

Quote from: Swatter on June 10, 2016, 11:25:00 PM
Quote from: Hofstadter on June 10, 2016, 09:03:25 PM
This game is so wild. Went as Finland, went communist, made a communist coup in Norway and used the military access to get a better line. Allied with russia, declared war with sweden and got half of my divisions wiped out. For some reason the Chinese came to help me and rescued my other divisions. Now Ive got a heap of finnish divisions sitting on the south of sweden poised to strike into germany.

I was about to pull the trigger until I read this. This is pure insanity. Not that Finland could invade Sweden, but that the Chinese can send a force to rescue you from across the world. This implies that logistics is almost non-existent. I won't even ask what national interest Nationalist China would have in your war with Sweden.

I am perfectly happy waiting for patches.

My wargaming channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx_VZ48DOrINe4XA7Bvf99A

"I earned the right to shoot Havoc!"

Swatter

I'm sure it's a great game and I'm positive I will buy it. Right now I'm totally involved in Fallout 4 and have WH TW on deck, so I can easily wait out at least one big patch.

Thanks for the vids Hofstadter! I am a regular watcher.

jomni

Regarding the wild outcomes.  EU4 also leads to those wild outcomes.  But no one complained.

Ian C

#442
Quote from: Swatter on June 10, 2016, 11:25:00 PM
Quote from: Hofstadter on June 10, 2016, 09:03:25 PM
This game is so wild. Went as Finland, went communist, made a communist coup in Norway and used the military access to get a better line. Allied with russia, declared war with sweden and got half of my divisions wiped out. For some reason the Chinese came to help me and rescued my other divisions. Now Ive got a heap of finnish divisions sitting on the south of sweden poised to strike into germany.

I was about to pull the trigger until I read this. This is pure insanity. Not that Finland could invade Sweden, but that the Chinese can send a force to rescue you from across the world. This implies that logistics is almost non-existent. I won't even ask what national interest Nationalist China would have in your war with Sweden.

I am perfectly happy waiting for patches.

Not sure about China's interest, but from the video I see four Chinese divisions inside Sweden which is consistent with the 'Send Volunteers' option. It's the same option where you can send troops to the Spanish Civil War to fight (and control them yourself). It's based on a limited number of Divisions (some kind of percentage of your total forces). As Germany, I could only send 2 divisions into Nationalist Spain.

What bothers me is that the Soviet Union gave access to China and I see dozens of Nat China divs swarming through China. This is the Military Access bug and has already been reported in the Paradox forums.


As far as ahistorical behaviour, I played as Poland last night and they have an interesting National Focus Tree which goes down either established history or wildly ahistoric lines. I placed a Fascist Sympathiser on my staff in 1936 which slowly increased the Fascist Party popularity and through various focuses sent them into a majority. A civil war broke out with the country divided. Then I joined the Axis (which was possible because some of the Focuses were to suck up to Hitler) and sent a Call To Arms to The Reich. Within a month there was an Axis united Poland. The end result seems pretty wild, but how I got there was entirely plausible based on the events.

tgb

Quote from: Ian C on June 11, 2016, 04:44:09 AM


As far as ahistorical behaviour, I played as Poland last night and they have an interesting National Focus Tree which goes down either established history or wildly ahistoric lines. I placed a Fascist Sympathiser on my staff in 1936 which slowly increased the Fascist Party popularity and through various focuses sent them into a majority. A civil war broke out with the country divided. Then I joined the Axis (which was possible because some of the Focuses were to suck up to Hitler) and sent a Call To Arms to The Reich. Within a month there was an Axis united Poland. The end result seems pretty wild, but how I got there was entirely plausible based on the events.

Interesting.  I'll have to try that.  Did you have historical AI on or off?

Zulu1966

Quote from: MetalDog on June 10, 2016, 06:35:14 PM
Quote from: Zulu1966 on June 10, 2016, 07:21:10 AM
I won't be buying.
I would love something of detail that simulates world war II
Not something like world war II or something where Japan invades Sweden at some point. There just isn't a game that simulates the whole thing in detail in a totally non abstract way.

I understand that tone is hard to read in print, so, please understand that I only mean to ask for clarification.

I am asking this of Zulu1966, but, anyone else that has an opinion, feel free to chime in.  The way I read what you wrote, you would like a game that you press Play and then WWII unfolds in front of you.  Historically and with the same outcomes.  Why would anyone want a game that plays like that?  The Germans always lose.  The Americans always come in December 7, 1941.  And on and on.  Where is the fun in that?

So, I guess what I am asking is, what do you mean by simulation?  And why would you play a game that runs almost exactly like it did in real life?

No not really - though something that plays out close to the history with variations as part of victory or not is not a problem for me. I mean something that plays out within the realms of what was possible. Japan was never going to invade Sweden - and I read somewhere that someone played as Greece and was currently in control of half of Europe. Would never happen - not in a million years in that period - so in my view you could be playing Total War Warhammer and get as much pleasure out of it.

your example of Pearl harbour is a good one - yes what would happen if the Japanese didn't attack. But that is a realistic prospect and is an interesting alternative history for all kinds of reasons. Some of the things I am reading are happening are as much fantasy as orcs and dwarfs. I also have no hope whatsoever that an AI could remotely be programmed that played anything like a sensible game in this one.

So yes - I don't mind / actually quite like alternative history but as I say some of the things I am reading suggest that for those things to be happening its just a sandbox of "factions" using WWII as a loose premise.
"you are the rule maker, the dictator, the mini- Stalin, Mao, Hitler, the emperor, generalissimo, the MAN. You may talk the talk and appear to be quite easy going to foster popularity, but to the MAN I say F*CK YOU." And Steve G is F******g rude ? Just another day on the BF forum ... one demented idiots reaction to BF disagreeing about the thickness of the armour on a Tiger II turret mantlet.

MetalDog

Thanks for replying and clearing that up.  So you want something that loosely conforms to the overall WWII experience without the possibility of wildly ahistorical outcomes.  Makes sense.
And the One Song to Rule Them All is Gimme Shelter - Rolling Stones


"If its a Balrog, I don't think you get an option to not consent......." - bob

Ian C

#446
Quote from: tgb on June 11, 2016, 05:37:59 AM
Interesting.  I'll have to try that.  Did you have historical AI on or off?

I had it on. The National Focuses have a whole line geared towards ideology change. I also had to 'Improve Relations' with Germany, which helped and place a Fascist on my staff (one of the Government Staff He increased Fascist Party Popularity per day).
Just a note: this is the Poland DLC, which everyone has free.

I'm all for plausibility, as well, if it makes sense. Just random changes of government would break it for me but within the context of what choices you get to steer the nation, it works.

Grim.Reaper

What I always wonder about all this "non-historical" results is under what conditions are they achieved....personally, I haven't really seen these but certainly not saying they don't happen to some people...

But...

1)  What difficulty are they playing on?
2)  Do they have the historical focus turned on?
3)  Any chance they modded any of the data to give them an advantage?
4)  Have they found some exploit they are taken advantage of?

Sometimes I feel people try to setup/play the game in a way that brings these situations into play just so they can show everyone what they did...not saying everyone.  I am also not saying you  should "have to play" the game in a certain way to help the AI/game, but seems some folks go out of their way in an extreme way to make it happen so they can say the game is broken.  The historical vs non-historical question is always interesting......I always tend to be in the camp "anything is possible" based on chain of events and what may happen during the game, especially if you choose an earlier start date...who knows what allies you can pick up, who knows what kind of production genius you can turn out to be, who knows what kind of luck you might have, etc.  Certainly I don't want to see anything extremely crazy myself, unless there is a well thought out logical reason why it was achieved, even if unlikely, but at the same time I am not just looking to see WWII unfold again.

Rayfer

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 10, 2016, 02:39:00 PM
Quote from: Pete Dero on June 10, 2016, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on June 10, 2016, 01:38:43 PM
The "trade factory capacity for imported raw materials" mechanic is pretty unintuitive and makes no real-world sense that I can discern. I guess it serves its function as a game mechanic but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way all the same.

How I see it is you import something in return for something the people of the other country want.  Therefore you use one or more of your factories to produce those wanted goods.  While they do this you can't use them to build for yourself.   You don't give them a factory but you give them the output of that factory.  The result is the same : one less factory available for you.
That is my understanding - get goods in return for "something" they want - which uses a factory

I'm not sure I like the mechanic of only being able to set quantities of 8 mind...but maybe it's ok - I noticed a country was defaulting on my requirement of 8 rubber - only providing 6. I had to cancel that and look for a country that was going to provide me what I needed to maximise the use (loss) of a factory.

I don't currently get Air - but I'll get there.

Me too....I still haven't figured out the air war game yet.

Rayfer

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 11, 2016, 06:22:48 AM
What I always wonder about all this "non-historical" results is under what conditions are they achieved....personally, I haven't really seen these but certainly not saying they don't happen to some people...

But...

1)  What difficulty are they playing on?
2)  Do they have the historical focus turned on?
3)  Any chance they modded any of the data to give them an advantage?
4)  Have they found some exploit they are taken advantage of?

Sometimes I feel people try to setup/play the game in a way that brings these situations into play just so they can show everyone what they did...not saying everyone.  I am also not saying you  should "have to play" the game in a certain way to help the AI/game, but seems some folks go out of their way in an extreme way to make it happen so they can say the game is broken.  The historical vs non-historical question is always interesting......I always tend to be in the camp "anything is possible" based on chain of events and what may happen during the game, especially if you choose an earlier start date...who knows what allies you can pick up, who knows what kind of production genius you can turn out to be, who knows what kind of luck you might have, etc.  Certainly I don't want to see anything extremely crazy myself, unless there is a well thought out logical reason why it was achieved, even if unlikely, but at the same time I am not just looking to see WWII unfold again.

GR...I would add:  5) are they playing a major power or a minor country. Minors don't have their own specific focus choices and from what I've seen playing them tends to lead to the strange non-historical outcomes.