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Hearts of Iron IV

Started by Ian C, May 13, 2016, 01:07:15 PM

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sandman2575

+1 to Pete's strategy.  Cavalry have the highest suppression value of any battalion, and so are your best option for reducing resistance / sabotage. As Germany, I design a 'security brigade' of 4 cavalry battalions + MP + Recon (the last not strictly necessary, but I like the added flavor). I build these by the dozens, but I don't bother to train them -- it's fine if they remain "green." Once they've completed basic training, just deploy them, send them to high resistance areas, and watch the resistance % tick down.

I initiated a bit of a flame war on the pdox forum in arguing strongly that division design should *not* be limited by 'army experience points'. I truly hate this mechanic and so I use the mod that eliminates it (sadly that mod isn't compatible with some other important ones, so there's still a bit of a trade off). I don't buy for a second the argument that the 'exp. points' price somehow prevents exploitative play. I want to be able to design divisions as I see fit, when I see fit. And especially since the default division templates HOI4 gives you are such rubbish, I don't see why we should have to wait for months and months to accrue arbitrary 'points' so that we can do basic things like attach engineer and artillery support to our infantry divisions.

Anyway, I like to build a variety of infantry divisions for different purposes. As Germany, my standard build is:

3 regiments x 4 infantry battalions
1 reg. x 2 artillery + x2 AT battalions
Support:  Engineer, Recon, Field Hospital, Logistics, Signals coys.

That's not 'optimal' at all from the game standpoint, but I like that it is much closer to historical reality than what the game otherwise gives you.

I also build *many* Garrison divisions:

3 reg. x 4 inf. bat.
Support coys:  Arty, AT, AA, MP

These are not offensive units. Their sole purpose is to garrison Ports, cities, and fortresses.

Also, I've started using this mod to try to do something, anything about the ridiculous air losses:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=705221500&searchtext=air

Have only just started using it, but it does seem to reduce losses a bit -- and every bit helps.

Jarhead0331

thanks for that OOB, Sandman.

Really, guys...there are some great pro-tips in this thread, and putting that together with my growing understanding of the game systems through firsthand play is really helping me grasp this game like no other paradox title before it.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


sandman2575

Just wanted to add (although maybe it's too obvious to mention?) -- playing as Germany and trying to fend off constant Allied amphib. landings -- it's necessary to garrison *every* port on the map that you occupy. Every one. Even Level One ports. Allied armies need to capture a port to get supplies flowing (a nice touch of realism). They may land troops on undefended coastline, but unless they capture a port, their supplies are limited, and they are vulnerable. I garrison every port with the Garrison divs. I listed above. I keep a 'reaction' army near Paris / Normandy -- about 6 divisions -- and another army in Northern Germany to repulse invasions near Wilhelmshafen / Denmark. There's no need to defend empty coastline. But essential to garrison ports and have a backup reaction force for the landings that happen elsewhere (and constantly).

Also playing as Germany, your 'partner' Italy starts to become a big headache. AI is not good about garrisoning ports, and UK/USA AI is *constantly* trying to land forces in Sicily and Italy. So, I garrison Italy's ports for them -- definitely all the ports on the western coast -- and keep an army stationed in 'the boot' to react to invasions. Also keep some Ju-87s and obsolete Tac. bombers stationed in Italy. It's a drain of resources, but then, defending Italy really did become a drain on German resources!

Jarhead0331

#663
My current game has taken me further, more successfully than ever before. Its early 1941 and I have most of Western Europe under my heel. I have never had to formulate long term strategy, but I find myself in this position now. I'm pretty confident that the Dutch, the Danes and Norwegians will have to be conquered in order to secure and control the North. I believe these invasions will be essentially role-overs.  My armies are experienced, well equipped and capable of pulling off advanced tactics. The big question is where to go next, after those final western European nations are occupied. I don't feel ready to take on the UK or the Reds. An opportunity has presented itself with respect to the Russians. They have invaded Finland, who has asked to join the Axis, but I know if I go to war with Russia now, it will be game over. 

Italy has already been a thorn in my side by getting into wars before I'm ready to launch my own ambitions, but in this game, they managed to stay out of too much trouble. They are currently committed to a war in Greece and they are holding their own without my intervention so far.

Japan has asked for assistance, as has Vichy France. I've been declining these requests...what is the diplomatic consequence or penalty for taking that kind of a position with your allies?
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Pete Dero

When building divisions don't forget to look at the combat width.

If you have a frontline of 80 and your division has a combat width of 20 you can fit 4 divisions on the frontline while the rest go to reserve.
If your division had a combat width of 21 only 3 would fit and 17 frontline width is wasted (80 - 21x3).

For that reason I always go for 20 or 40 and avoid all other possibilities.  Adding one piece of artillery might strengthen your one division but could give you a weaker frontline as one entire division gets dropped.   (Base combat width is 80, additional attack directions bring 40 extra per direction)

Rayfer

Quote from: Pete Dero on June 28, 2016, 09:46:30 AM
When building divisions don't forget to look at the combat width.

If you have a frontline of 80 and your division has a combat width of 20 you can fit 4 divisions on the frontline while the rest go to reserve.
If your division had a combat width of 21 only 3 would fit and 17 frontline width is wasted (80 - 21x3).

For that reason I always go for 20 or 40 and avoid all other possibilities.  Adding one piece of artillery might strengthen your one division but could give you a weaker frontline as one entire division gets dropped.   (Base combat width is 80, additional attack directions bring 40 extra per direction)

Pete....help me understand this. When you say 'frontline of 80'....80 what?  And 'combat width of 21'....21 what?

jamus34

Combat width

You would have to ask a grog more technical than me but I believe it is the abstraction of how many units you can have fighting on a particular front at a single time.

Number is higher if you are attacking from multiple directions due to having a larger front to work with. At least that's my interpretation
Insert witty comment here.

Pete Dero

Quote from: Rayfer on June 28, 2016, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on June 28, 2016, 09:46:30 AM
When building divisions don't forget to look at the combat width.

If you have a frontline of 80 and your division has a combat width of 20 you can fit 4 divisions on the frontline while the rest go to reserve.
If your division had a combat width of 21 only 3 would fit and 17 frontline width is wasted (80 - 21x3).

For that reason I always go for 20 or 40 and avoid all other possibilities.  Adding one piece of artillery might strengthen your one division but could give you a weaker frontline as one entire division gets dropped.   (Base combat width is 80, additional attack directions bring 40 extra per direction)

Pete....help me understand this. When you say 'frontline of 80'....80 what?  And 'combat width of 21'....21 what?

I don't know what this represents in real life but it is what HOI uses :

from the wiki :

Combat width. Represents the size of the fighting unit. In order to fit in battle, the unit needs to fit into the provided combat width of the battle field. Different unit types increase the designed width with different amount: For example, infantry and armored battalions use 2 width and artillery, anti-tank and anti-air battalions use 3 width. Support battalions do not increase the combat width of a division.
Combat width

Combat width works a lot like in HOI3, but is now more detailed. Each division will have a combat width which will tell you how many divisions fit into the frontline for active fighting. The available width of the combat goes up the more directions you attack from, so tactical flanking is needed if you want to leverage a numerical advantage. Width is also affected by certain combat tactics. Base combat width is 80, where additional directions bring 40 extra per direction. The combat width of a division depends on how it has been designed.

Pete Dero

Combat width : bottom line of the column Combat Stats.



sandman2575

I have to admit that I completely disregard combat width as a consideration when designing my divisions -- probably ignoring it at my peril, for the reasons Pete mentions. It's my own (admittedly fetishistic) style of play, but I always go for historical verisimilitude even at the cost of what is optimal from a gameplay standpoint.  I get a kick out of fiddling with the division designer, which is a fun tool in and of itself (which is again why I find the exp. points limitation intolerable).

@Jarhead -- my current Germany campaign seems to be tracking your own experience to some extent. The question of 'what to do after France' is a big one. Personally, I completely ignore Scandinavia -- I see no reason to pour resources into trying to conquer Denmark and Norway. Let 'em be. In my last play-thru, I made the (somewhat historical) mistake of getting side-tracked into invading Yugoslavia and the Balkans. Fighting in the mountains, esp. in Greece, is a meat-grinder, and when USSR DOW'd in 1940, I was finished.

Currently, it's March 1941. USA entered the war in Sept. 1940 -- a nasty surprise, and one that I'm pretty irritated over since they joined the war without first being attacked. After defeating France, I turned my focus to the Baltic states. I thought -- why not take Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia, and give myself a huge leg-up in the inevitable war with USSR? The best-laid schemes... Midway through steamrolling the Baltics, I noticed USSR was 'researching' as its national focus: "Assert claims on Baltics". I figured conquering the Baltics would hurt my relationship with USSR -- which so far had been cozy, they were by far my biggest trade partner -- but clearly we were on a collision course. No sooner did USSR finish that nat. focus than I got the warning that USSR was working on war justification against innocent ol' me. I rushed all my armies and 90% of my airforce to the East. I have only a token response force in France, although the West is well garrisoned otherwise.

USSR just declared war and I'm not sure how I'm going to fare. They have a big numbers advantage. I only have 8 panzer divisions in the field, although they're good divisions. Meanwhile, USA has a foothold in Sicily and will soon be pressing north in Italy -- nothing I can do about that now.

USSR declaring war also has the huge downside of strangling your resources flow. I depended hugely on USSR for oil especially. I was doing everything in my power to get Netherlands on my side, since losing their supply of rubber is very difficult to overcome. It's the reason I kept refusing Japan's offer to join the Axis (I'm not sure there's any real cost to refusing). Japan was bound to DOW Netherlands to take DEI. Anyway, Netherlands just up and joined the Allies for no apparent reason after I conquered France. Had no choice but to occupy them. But now I'm completely screwed with my rubber supply -- and rubber is *essential* for aircraft. I've been using all my civ. factories to build Oil/Rubber Plants.

This is my second play-thru where USSR declared war on me (Germany) before summer of '41. The fact that USA joined the Allies *in 1940* is, to my mind, a big problem for someone who ticked the 'AI historical focus' box in the options. That shouldn't really happen. And USSR seems a bit overpowered, and much too eager to initiate war with Germany.


jamus34

Sandman, I agree there on the combat exp needed to create/modify land combat units.

Would much rather have division size limitations tied to research and unit augments tied to combat experience.
Insert witty comment here.

Jarhead0331

Quote from: sandman2575 on June 28, 2016, 10:28:10 AM
I have to admit that I completely disregard combat width as a consideration when designing my divisions -- probably ignoring it at my peril, for the reasons Pete mentions. It's my own (admittedly fetishistic) style of play, but I always go for historical verisimilitude even at the cost of what is optimal from a gameplay standpoint.  I get a kick out of fiddling with the division designer, which is a fun tool in and of itself (which is again why I find the exp. points limitation intolerable).

@Jarhead -- my current Germany campaign seems to be tracking your own experience to some extent. The question of 'what to do after France' is a big one. Personally, I completely ignore Scandinavia -- I see no reason to pour resources into trying to conquer Denmark and Norway. Let 'em be. In my last play-thru, I made the (somewhat historical) mistake of getting side-tracked into invading Yugoslavia and the Balkans. Fighting in the mountains, esp. in Greece, is a meat-grinder, and when USSR DOW'd in 1940, I was finished.

Currently, it's March 1941. USA entered the war in Sept. 1940 -- a nasty surprise, and one that I'm pretty irritated over since they joined the war without first being attacked. After defeating France, I turned my focus to the Baltic states. I thought -- why not take Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia, and give myself a huge leg-up in the inevitable war with USSR? The best-laid schemes... Midway through steamrolling the Baltics, I noticed USSR was 'researching' as its national focus: "Assert claims on Baltics". I figured conquering the Baltics would hurt my relationship with USSR -- which so far had been cozy, they were by far my biggest trade partner -- but clearly we were on a collision course. No sooner did USSR finish that nat. focus than I got the warning that USSR was working on war justification against innocent ol' me. I rushed all my armies and 90% of my airforce to the East. I have only a token response force in France, although the West is well garrisoned otherwise.

USSR just declared war and I'm not sure how I'm going to fare. They have a big numbers advantage. I only have 8 panzer divisions in the field, although they're good divisions. Meanwhile, USA has a foothold in Sicily and will soon be pressing north in Italy -- nothing I can do about that now.

USSR declaring war also has the huge downside of strangling your resources flow. I depended hugely on USSR for oil especially. I was doing everything in my power to get Netherlands on my side, since losing their supply of rubber is very difficult to overcome. It's the reason I kept refusing Japan's offer to join the Axis (I'm not sure there's any real cost to refusing). Japan was bound to DOW Netherlands to take DEI. Anyway, Netherlands just up and joined the Allies for no apparent reason after I conquered France. Had no choice but to occupy them. But now I'm completely screwed with my rubber supply -- and rubber is *essential* for aircraft. I've been using all my civ. factories to build Oil/Rubber Plants.

This is my second play-thru where USSR declared war on me (Germany) before summer of '41. The fact that USA joined the Allies *in 1940* is, to my mind, a big problem for someone who ticked the 'AI historical focus' box in the options. That shouldn't really happen. And USSR seems a bit overpowered, and much too eager to initiate war with Germany.

Fascinating. Yes, very similar to my experience, but my strategic situation seems a bit better than yours as I annexed Yugoslavia through national focus, have not gotten involved in the war in Greece, the Italians are not opposing any invasions on the mainland and am still existing peacefully with the Netherlands. I was convinced I was going to attack the Dutch, but your comments on rubber supply have raised a valuable strategic consideration that I had not thought about. I  need to look at where I'm obtaining this resource from and see how a DOW would impact me. 
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


sandman2575

I'm not sure there's any surefire solution for rubber where Germany is concerned. UK and Netherlands have cornered the market on world rubber production. Obviously, UK is not a viable trading source in the longterm. Japan DOWing Netherlands seems like a certainty in almost any play-thru, so letting Japan into the Axis is a big risk if you're trying to cozy up to Netherlands. There's a 'befriend Netherlands' national focus point in the German tree, although it gives you more of an 'intimidation' edge over Net. rather than getting them into the Axis.

On a future play-thru, I think I will try to get Netherlands into the Axis from day one. Boost the Dutch fascist party. Improve relations. Encourage a fascist coup when the party seems powerful enough. Otherwise I think Net. is all but hardcoded to join the Allies. The fact that they just joined the Allies -- even after I conquered France!! -- in my current game speaks to that. I really wanted Net. to at least remain neutral, or go to war with Japan if that was inevitable anyway. But I deliberately avoided attacking Net. when going for the French invasion -- the WW1 Schlieffen plan, bulldoze Belgium, honor Dutch 'neutrality'. All for naught.

The other thing Germany should probably do, from day one -- start building synthetic Oil/Rubber plants. Many of them. They're expensive and take a long time (prob. good to the get the minister -- Schacht? -- that gives you a construction bonus). It also comes at the expense of building other improvements, military factories and AAA especially. Otherwise, the rubber deficit is all but insurmountable. Even when war comes with USSR, you can get get Oil from Romania and South America. Tungsten from Sweden. Aluminum from Hungary. But beyond a small amount from Siam, and scraps from places like Brazil, there's just no other source out there for rubber.

Jarhead0331

^what about invading and taking the Dutch colonial possessions that generate rubber? Although logistically difficult for Germany, it seems that this would be a viable strategy if taking these colonies would shift resource production to Germany. 
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


mikeck

I am trying to keep up but the posts are so long in this thread that it's difficult. I'm getting ready to start a game are there any "must-have "mods around? the ones that almost everybody gets or you really need to deal with an  inherent design problem or bug
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson