Steel Division 2 Brings Single Player Strategic map campaign similar to totalwar

Started by Destraex, August 25, 2018, 04:43:33 AM

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demjansk1942

Great looking game but just to much for me to manage, feels like work when I play it.

Destraex

Quote from: fabius on March 05, 2021, 05:33:49 AM
Quote from: hellfish6 on March 04, 2021, 04:39:35 AM

I routinely play skirmishes vs the AI. Typically 2 vs 3 on a small map. It gives me half of the map to work with, which I find more manageable, and 2 vs 3 is usually enough of a challenge for me with a well-balanced unit. It also depends on who I'm fighting - if it's me as Germany, I almost always give the Allies and edge (with no maintenance issues, Panthers are amazing). If I'm playing Allies vs Germany, I might go 3 vs 2.

There's a lot of customization available to suit your playing taste, which is why I think I still play SD2 several times a week and why I prefer it to the CM series.

Thanks hellfish6 and @Destraex

I initially kind of dismissed your suggestions, just because I'm mostly SP, and the draw for me is the Operational layer. But was thinking that the whole tactical and operational link is pretty unique in the level of detail in the Operational layer too. So shifted to thinking you guys are onto something. Play a few small skirmishes to learn the new group commands, reboot the muscle memory for the others and that'll give another go at a campaign a better chance.

Cheers !
Yeah that could work. Breakthrough mode in skirmish is especially good training for the campaign as it is an attacker vs defender scenario mode where the defender gets to drop defences like trenches, gun emplacements etc. I find in breakthrough mode that setup takes an awfully long time. I played with a friend the other night that is a bit of a perfectionist. I looked at the replay afterwards and realised we were literally waiting over 30 minutes for him to finish setting up. In single player you can save the game at any time with CTRL-S (quicksave) if I recall. So you do not have to finish it in one setting.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

fabius

Quote from: Destraex on March 05, 2021, 05:45:01 PM

Yeah that could work. Breakthrough mode in skirmish is especially good training for the campaign as it is an attacker vs defender scenario mode where the defender gets to drop defences like trenches, gun emplacements etc. I find in breakthrough mode that setup takes an awfully long time. I played with a friend the other night that is a bit of a perfectionist. I looked at the replay afterwards and realised we were literally waiting over 30 minutes for him to finish setting up. In single player you can save the game at any time with CTRL-S (quicksave) if I recall. So you do not have to finish it in one setting.

Big thanks for reminding me about the save game issue!!!
Just giving it a whirl now with more of a commander's head on rather than a micro (well I will at least try ) 

Quick save is F5 though. Then drop to saves and rename  O0

solops

So Steel Division 2 is a good game? How is it different from Graviteam Tactics' Mius Front? A lot of these games look a lot alike and I cannot tell from their Steam pages what the pros, cons and big differences are. The "fun" factor is really hard to figure from game-to-game.
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Destraex

Quote from: fabius on March 06, 2021, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: Destraex on March 05, 2021, 05:45:01 PM

Yeah that could work. Breakthrough mode in skirmish is especially good training for the campaign as it is an attacker vs defender scenario mode where the defender gets to drop defences like trenches, gun emplacements etc. I find in breakthrough mode that setup takes an awfully long time. I played with a friend the other night that is a bit of a perfectionist. I looked at the replay afterwards and realised we were literally waiting over 30 minutes for him to finish setting up. In single player you can save the game at any time with CTRL-S (quicksave) if I recall. So you do not have to finish it in one setting.

Big thanks for reminding me about the save game issue!!!
Just giving it a whirl now with more of a commander's head on rather than a micro (well I will at least try ) 

Quick save is F5 though. Then drop to saves and rename  O0
Yes of course. F5. I have not used it for over a year. I just remember being frustrated by the campaign not letting me save until I figured that out.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Destraex

Quote from: solops on March 06, 2021, 04:52:05 PM
So Steel Division 2 is a good game? How is it different from Graviteam Tactics' Mius Front? A lot of these games look a lot alike and I cannot tell from their Steam pages what the pros, cons and big differences are. The "fun" factor is really hard to figure from game-to-game.

                                 Graviteam tactics         Steel Division 2
Multiplayer                         NO                           up to max 10v10 or vs AI, coop scenarios. I think coop campaign is coming?
LOS tools                          YES                              YES
Formations                    Complex                       no or Basic
OOB                              Realistic                       Abstracted, chosen by player but based on what that unit had in general at the time
LOS                               Realistic?                     BORG site. If any unit can see it then others from that side can see it. Scouts are important
Command system           Realistic?                     Abstracted through the use of leader and commander radio nets
Moral                             Realistic?                     Abstracted but exactly reproducible. Men will surrender if overrun while stressed. Stress leads to leads to innacurate and slow return fire and too much stress
                                                                       leads to complete suppression and then a forced retreat for a period of time.
Map Textures                  horrible                       excellent
Elevation                        slopes                         plateaus
Infantry animation          clunky                         clunky
queue orders                     yes                            yes
realistic ranges                 yes?                            yes but balanced. Infantry weapons especially are rationalised as effective ranges.
realistic armour model       yes?                            abstracted by 12 hitpoints (most tanks beneath an armour model that must be penetrated. Critical or recoverable damage like gunner knocked out or
                                                                          transmission
                                                                          damage can also happen. Some shells to less damage than others. Lucky shots will one shot the vehicle. Distance is a huge factor. Chance of hitting and
                                                                          then chance of penetration is shown by a tool. The tool can be set to show chance based on frontal armour only (armour in mm which is abstracted to
                                                                          include any sloping) or dynamic which shows chance based on the vehicle facing and other considerations.
battle time phases             NO                               yes - has phase A B and C which allow the player to bring on the units he has chosen for each time phase. Which is about 10 minutes each phase iirc.
                                                                          Once in phase C the game continues until the game mode victory conditions are met. Which usually involves holding more flags than the other player.
deployment phase            yes                                yes
deploy after start              no?                               yes - points are gained at a rate the player chose from the options in each phase per minute to spend on bringing in more units throughout the game. A
                                                                          meeting engagement is simulated in this way in which constant re-enforcements are brought in. There is a game option which allows you to initially deploy
                                                                          massive forces however. But this definitely is a game of chess in this regard. You bring on units to counter your enemy exactly as in real life, only this
                                                                          happens somewhat faster in sd2 with the division you haves available assets.
Deck creation                  no                                 yes. The player must choose from available units in the division he has chosens main menu to create his own customised battlegroup to take for a game.
                                                                          The deck system reminds me of creating premade close combat unit choices
Artillery                          yes?                              on-map and off-map artillery. Artillery does have a minimum range but most do not have max ranges.
Aircraft                           yes?                              yes. Aircraft and anti-aricraft play are crucial
Replays                           yes?                              yes. Replays of every game are autosaved for later viewing
Orders                            yes                                yes. There are a lot of group orders that make it easy to give the ai control of a given task. Special orders like efficient shot stop units from firing at ranges
                                                                           they cannot be effective at etc. Orders can be linked in sequence
Speed                            slow                                reasonable but half speed and slower iirc are possible. SD2 is not as fast as a normal RTS but is probably equivalent because of the schere size of the
                                                                            forces you are commanding on a large map
map scale                      huge                               huge
trenches                        yes                                 yes but only as the defender in some game modes like the campaign or breakthrough skirmish mode
barbed wire                    yes?                                   yes but only as the defender in some game modes like the campaign or breakthrough skirmish mode
emplacements               yes?                                  yes but only as the defender in some game modes like the campaign or breakthrough skirmish mode
mines                           yes?                                  NO
blow bridges                   ?                                     NO - this was not done by design in order that multiplayer games did not turn into destroy the bridge affairs. Shame
River Crossings              yes?                                  Yes - amphibious vehicles and infantry may cross rivers. Unfortunately infantry just hold their rifles over their heads to simulate they are crossing, I
                                                                            guess we just have to pretend they all have those russian rubber inner tubes.
weather                          ?                                     NO - in previous games like red dragon in this series tanks would detrack in mud. I don't think I have ever seen that happen in SD2. It's always a good
                                                                            day for flying in sd2.
Night ops                        ?                                     NO - I don't think so. I remember they were a thing in european escalation. But not sure SD2 has any of this? Perhaps in the campaign?
Cover system                  yes                                  yes
Recon                             yes                                  yes - It is extremely important to have recon units hiding, identifying enemy units and reporting back. Tanks are very bad at this and will often not see
                                                                            infantry right next to them.
Ammo count                   yes                                  yes - supply trucks can be vital especially for artillery. Supply is limited and can be exhausted. Unfortunately units do not pickup enemy weapons like in
                                                                            close combat. Ammo is a hugely limiting factor for units like the is2.
building entry                  yes?                                 yes. Buildings are only one story high but a city map is being worked on which may have taller buildings
Destructible environment  ??                                    Yes - artillery destroys buildings and forest cover as do other explosive weapons. Terrain however does not deform other than superficial cratering
off road on road speed       ?                                     Yes - Vehicles are much faster on roads. Some vehicles are relatively slow on roads but faster than other vehicles off road
Healing                             ?                                      NO - men do not heal or get replenished
Repair                              ?                                      Yes. Supply trucks in game can consume some of their supply repairing vehicles. fixing stuck guns, optics fixes, track repair, even recrewing a decrewed
                                                                               vehicle. However destroyed vehicles cannot be repaired. Just damaged ones. Repairing takes time and doing it under fire I do not think is possible. The
                                                                               unit must not be under fire iirc. Maybe it is based on stress levels? Something to look into. But I do know if a unit is firing (maybe even reloading) it
                                                                              cannot be repaired whilst
                                                                              doing that
Paratrooper drops              ?                                      NO - paratroopers are in game but never come out of aircraft
Mount\dismount                 ?                                     Yes - Trucks dissappear on dismounting due to empty truck scout spam in previous series titles that would soak up AT missiles etc. However if the
                                                                               transport has a weapon it will not dissappear and the infantry can remount the vehicle
Towing                                ?                                   Yes - (trucks with no weapon still disappear on dropping a towed weapon) - any vehicle with a tow bar can tow a towed weapon such as a AT gun or
                                                                               artillery
                                                                                piece.

I have probably missed  a tonne and must confess I have really only paddled in red star 2 . I don't know graviteam stuff well at all. I looked at James Allens video to refresh my memory. It's always the map textures at a distance and camera controls that make me cringe when it comes to games like graviteam tactics or combat mission. They spoil the immersion and make things hard to see. Steel Division 2 on the other hand is crystal clear and the icons work well to tell you what is happening with a given unit. SD2 also has easy and fast zooming to any situation in a flash.

In Scenarios and the campaign often you deploy everything you have in the deployment phase in SD2. But in skirmish you generally get 500-700 points (a tank might be worth 50 points) to use in the deployment phase and then 100 points per minute every subsequent minute. I assume in graviteams games you just get what you are given and reinforcements arrive when they did historically rather than being specifically called for back to HQ?

                         
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

JasonPratt

Graviteam games still have a better overmap relation between the strategy campaign and the battles being generated. I seem to recall this affects when units arrive, also? -- if you've told x-units to head toward a sector where a battle is being fought, they'll arrive from the proper direction according to speed and terrain etc.?
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Destraex

Burning Baltics releases April 29th with 8 new divisions including Estonians for the Allies and  Lithuanians for the Axis.

In addition absolutely huge gameplay changes to tank combat - max ranges are no longer homogenous at 2000m. They are different depending on calibre. Shell types also have different ranges, APCR and HEAT rounds will generally always have lower max ranges than standard AP\HE rounds. Penetration drop off in mm have been changed as well and accuracy being inversely proportional to range. Lower max ranged guns have higher accuracy.

Efficient shot is also changed so that you can choose per unit or globally at what percentage to hit you want a gun opening up and potentially revealing itself or just not wasting ammo.

This is going to essentially bring the game closer and make it faster with a lot more one shot kills at short range. However it will also make assaults more feasible as well as more dangerous as people will not as easily be able to cover vast expanses of terrain. It's basically going to take more units to cover the same ground defensively.
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/919640?emclan=103582791463085333&emgid=2986423397426480871
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

JasonPratt

Oooo! -- are those updates going to affect all the game? (Surely not only Burning Baltics?)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Destraex

"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Destraex

New Steel Division 2 DLC is out soon (29 April). Some jets, 100mm AT guns, a napalm rocket HT and Prinz Eugen off map through a float plane. 8 Divisions. When this DLC comes out there should be huge tank range changes that will make a lot of the units more effective. The whole game and the way it is played is going to change.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Boggit

Quote from: Destraex on March 25, 2021, 03:58:14 PM
Yes. The gameplay changes will affect the whole game.
A definite improvement then. I will consider getting some more DLC now.
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Destraex

Best off to wait and see what the patch does. Should be very interesting.

BTW here comes the Italian Theatre as well as a coop campaign map!

"Following in the footsteps of the successful Tribute to D-Day and with the keen interest shown by the community for the Italian theater's divisions, we are working on an entirely new expansion: Tribute to the Liberation of Italy.

The Italian campaign is an unsung theater of operations during World War II, easily overlooked, and we wanted to shine the spotlight on a host of new divisions and units who fought in Italy during the summer of 1944. Tribute to the Liberation of Italy will feature troops from nine different nationalities, including four new ones, plus plenty of new units. These nations will have their own flag and voice acting, although some will be featured as minor partners in multinational battlegroups.

We'll detail more about the upcoming new battlegroups, we are doing our utmost to make the new Tribute to the Liberation of Italy battlegroups exciting, realistic, and accurate Steel Division 2 formations."

I do hope we get to the Desert from Italy.... it's not much further down ... but it is back in time.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/919640/view/3037091429807761343
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Destraex

Here is the breakdown of the new gun ranges. Bit concerned about the Panther being out ranged by the 88mm and above class. Remember at least one Russian division has what they call Tygers (captured Tiger 1 tanks). I guess the Tiger I 88mm will be less accurate than the Panther's 75mm though.

We have spread AP rounds from our myriad of tank and anti-tank guns, ranging from 20mm to 152mm, across six different max range settings.

750m: <30mm
1000m: 30-45mm
1250m: 45-47mm
1500m: 50-75mm
1750m: "long" 75 / 75-85mm
2000m: 88-122mm (plus ISU-152)


As everyone knows: wherever there are rules, there are exceptions. Outstanding guns in their caliber category may be moved up, such as the US "long" 37mm compared to the punny German 37mm. Likewise, others keep their max range at 2000m, including the 17-pdr (76,2mm), Kwk 42 (Panther) and Resita 75mm. On the other hand, short-barreled or low-velocity guns (such as howitzers' AP rounds) might be moved a step down.

APCR and HEAT rounds usually have a shorter range than their corresponding AP counterparts, although, once again, there are a few exceptions with certain APCR rounds.

Penetration drop-off has been adjusted for each range set to give more realistic results, and the more a gun has lost in range (compared to the current "vanilla" setting) the more accuracy it will gain. Guns reduced in range will have their chance to hit improved. i.e. those reduced to 1000m will have their accuracy increased by an average of 10-15%, for instance.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"