Why have game developers lost their imagination?

Started by Jarhead0331, May 25, 2020, 10:52:26 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Gusington



слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

planetbrain

I say this totally 'Tongue in cheek'. O:-)
Many a game now being released is Early Access. The reason for doing this is nearly always that a developer wants player input so as to make the best game possible to a players liking.
On that basis there are a great deal of games now (or soon to be) available that are just about what players want, surely? :DD

ps :One (IMO) very good example where EA works is with Armoured Commander 2 & there definitely are others, but generally...What a cop out!!
Mostly harmless

Apocalypse 31

I feel like the RTS community has suffered the most.

The current state is just bad. Uninspired, really.

Nothing grabs you like the innovation of systems like Supreme Commander, or aspects of asymmetric warfare like Command and Conquer Generals.

It seems like many RTS these days only have one faction. Wtf is that about?

Toonces

When I started reading this thread it made me think of a video I watched a long time ago about why Morrowind is the best game in the Elder Scrolls series.  I may have posted this previously in a different thread; I can't remember now.

Regardless, it's a pretty long video so it's maybe best enjoyed with a nice glass of wine in the evening.  The author's thesis is that Morrowind is the best because of the depth and creativity that underlies the gameplay, and that remaking it in a new engine would make it look prettier, but would detract from the gameplay that made Morrowind special. 

Anyway, this is what I thought of; I just watched it again and I think it speaks to many of the thoughts thus far expressed.

"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

Toonces

Along the same lines, I love this video.

The author's thesis is that the problems with the series are: games are made for consoles as well as PCs, and that the games have been streamlined and simplified to appeal to casual gamers.

I also simply love this guy's voice and presentation.

"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

IICptMillerII

Quote from: jamus34 on May 26, 2020, 06:04:33 AM
The flash and graphics play into it I believe.

Money I believe is also a factor, not in the cost of the game per se but that game develops want to make money and to do that reliably you need to hit in the mainstream, not niche markets.

I mean what are the most popular games today. Shooters in all their shapes and forms.

I think your question could be placed in a broader basis. There is a major dearth of creativity in society nowadays. Look at movies. You might get 1 interesting nee concept movie out a year, mainstream is all sequels and comic book movies currently.

Look at music, it is all manufactured at the mainstream level.

Both industries have their niche and underground talent that truly creates new things but overall it's not going to be visible to the average person.

I think this answers much of the question. Not to get all doom and gloom, but the reality is that whenever you have small isolated populations evolution/innovation happens at a fast rate, whereas when you have large populations in direct contact evolution/innovation slows. The internet has created an interconnected world where one programmers fart in Silicon Valley can be criticized and ridiculed by the masses in any number of locations. Its the phenomenon known as "Outrage Culture." Someone somewhere will take offense to whatever it is that is happening, context or no, and gather a merry band of angry folk who will make a big stink about it. Even outside the realm of outrage, two programmers 8,000 miles apart interacting in the same space online about the same things kills innovation and diversity.

I don't think the drive for money has "corrupted" the gaming industry, or movies, or music, or anything. After all, these things have always existed solely to create profit. The difference is, nowadays innovation is dead because the mass communal nature of the internet is slowly killing it. You see it in a lot of places. Entertainment industries generally are garbage nowadays, politics have become polarized echo chambers, as has much of the scientific community. In fact, most of life has become a polarized echo chamber, where every tiny thing is blown into a national and international controversy. Hell, even the Covid situation is indicative. The internet allows everyone to share in mutual terror and panic, which only amplifies it. Unfortunately, as cyberspace continues to proliferate and become more integrated into everyone's lives, this trend is only likely to increase.

That said, I'm no doomsday advocate, and consistently roll my eyes at those who are. I couldn't hope to propose a solution to what I've stated above, but I don't think it'll be the end of us all or anything crazy like that. There are a handful examples that buck the trend. The HBO show Chernobyl was fantastic, there is some decent new music being made (Tool and earlier this decade Alice in Chains are personal picks for me), and in the gaming sphere we do have some current gems (Combat Mission, Command: Modern Operations, Steel Beasts, and more main stream games like Red Dead Redemption 2 just to name a few) and some upcoming gems, such as Sea Power, Task Force Admiral, and more. There is still great stuff on the horizon, its just that now you have a lot more junk you have to sift through, and thanks to the internet its constantly being shoved in your face.

mbar

A certain feature creep squeezes in to game series too. I love the first Splinter Cell. It had a simplicity and ease of control. Later titles added more and more features and buttons and combos. I still think the first one is the best even with its simple graphics.

Father Ted

Quote from: Father Ted on May 26, 2020, 05:23:50 PM
Quote from: Gusington on May 26, 2020, 05:05:23 PM
Nostalgia is a really strong emotion.

Hmmm..I wasted a lot of words, didn't I?

To be fair, I wasn't really trying to write about nostalgia - that wasn't what endeared those games to us back in the day.

Gusington

But most of us are too old to remember what it really was!


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Queeg

Part of the problem, I think, is the modern DLC business model.

First, while it is perhaps unfair to say that developers routinely strip their initial releases of features that "should" be there, it is undeniable that companies increasingly adopt development plans that call for game features to be added incrementally.  A new game on initial release today is almost always less than the designer expects it to be tomorrow, less even than the tomorrow after that. 

Second, and perhaps worse, the DLC model dictates that new features will be added.  DLC's become an end in themselves; coherence is secondary.   

So we now have games that are in a constant state of flux, with changes too often made simply for the sake of having something new to sell.  What begins as a quaint, spartan cottage slowly morphs into a McMansion monstrosity full of questionable "bonus rooms."

Paradox games, in other words.     

   

mbar


W8taminute

Quote from: Queeg on May 27, 2020, 02:59:38 PM
Part of the problem, I think, is the modern DLC business model.

First, while it is perhaps unfair to say that developers routinely strip their initial releases of features that "should" be there, it is undeniable that companies increasingly adopt development plans that call for game features to be added incrementally.  A new game on initial release today is almost always less than the designer expects it to be tomorrow, less even than the tomorrow after that. 

Second, and perhaps worse, the DLC model dictates that new features will be added.  DLC's become an end in themselves; coherence is secondary.   

So we now have games that are in a constant state of flux, with changes too often made simply for the sake of having something new to sell.  What begins as a quaint, spartan cottage slowly morphs into a McMansion monstrosity full of questionable "bonus rooms."

Paradox games, in other words.     

   

This is a big reason why I just can't seem to get too excited anymore about new games.  In the old days you got it all the content there was ever going to be made for a game in one package.  The replayability of a lot of those games due to being full of every feature and game content was immense.  That is one of the reasons why I revisit a lot of my older games because they are 'complete' right out of the box.

Today you buy a game and it will hold your interest for about 5 minutes until you realize not everything is fully fleshed out.  What they give you out of the box is a shell of a game but they hope you will like it enough to purchase the DLCs which really should have been in the base game.  That is one of the reasons why I won't buy another Paradox game ever again.  I don't like the Civilization series anymore either because the shell base game is boring and the DLC that come out have features/content that should have been in the base game from the start. 

The young kids who don't have a game history and don't know any better love these seemingly brilliant games and have been conditioned to buy all of the DLCs.  As a cynical old man who has seen a lot in the game world I'm not easily fooled. 
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

airboy

First, why can't I buy Star Fleet 1 or 2 that works on a modern machine?  Probably confused copyright or too high a price on old copyright - but I still can't buy it.  Missed it the first time due to work.  Please help me someone - I would like to play these and I'm not graphics picky.

Second, the barriers to entry for games are lower now than they ever have been.  With the development tools out there and the ability to reach market without fighting for limited physical shelf space - we just have more product available and more things can reach market.  Tools are out there if you are not overly concerned with production values.  Dominions anyone?

Third, I'm guessing that if you looked at the total number of releases during your favorite nostalgia period - you will find that a huge proportion was crap.  When a market is developed - there is more experimentation on what will and won't work.  Once the market is understood you get more things that refine or try to find a smaller niche.  This is described as the "product life cycle" in marketing and has generally held across markets as a broad descriptive tool.  The theory has been around since the 1970s.  We remember the "survivors" of a market that were excellent - and forget the crap.  Take a 10 year period of your favorite books, movies, games.  Look at the total number of releases versus what you thought was wonderful.  Most was crap as you look back in time.

Last, nostalgia has a grip on consumers.  You develop tastes for different things at different stages of your life.  You remember "golden ages" when things were new to you and exciting - when that may or may not be the case for the industry itself.  Classic example is music.  Most people develop their music tastes when they were young/dating and they stay locked in that time period.

Jarhead/others - I'm not saying that your feelings are not real.  But I'm also not convinced that your feelings are not clouded by nostalgia or by what you get when a market develops normally (PC games here).

But hey, these are just my thoughts tempered by studying markets for decades.

Now can someone find me those two games without my stealing them?

MengJiao

Quote from: Gusington on May 26, 2020, 06:15:23 PM
I aspire to be a writer, Father :)

  Good question.  It's quite noticable; lots of games, not much imagination.  Well, I'm fixing it right away.  First I ran some machine learning on the
Spanish Armada data.  With a little fiddling, I could get a pretty coherent English ship doctrine resolved:  Three ancient monsters, some little ships, and the 10-15 killer galleons of the period prior to 1588 and the super-monster killers after the earlier killer types were proven.

For the Spanish Fleet -- so far not well resolved and I'm going to work on a different scenario in the WAW engine ( the revolt of Megabyzius in 458 BCE which probably stimulated the letter that Ezra (in the Book of Esra) brought to Jerusalem in the Seventh year of King Artaxerxes).

Basically, developers need to develop their imaginations by digging way way way down deep into real histories.

Jarhead0331

#44
Quote from: airboy on May 28, 2020, 11:01:29 AM
First, why can't I buy Star Fleet 1 or 2 that works on a modern machine?  Probably confused copyright or too high a price on old copyright - but I still can't buy it.  Missed it the first time due to work.  Please help me someone - I would like to play these and I'm not graphics picky.


You won't be stealing them. They are available for free with the permission of the developer. It is my understanding that he has even offered suggestions on how to run them best through dosbox.

They are available here: https://www.myabandonware.com/ and there is some indication that Dr. Sorensen is aware that the games are distributed from this site.

It is a legit site. If the IP is owned, they will not offer the game for free. If you want to play these games, this is where you are going to have to get them and you will have to run them through dosbox.  Star Fleet I and II and Star Legion all run fine on my Windows 10 rig. 
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18