Carriers at War

[agathosdaimon]

Naval Campaigns Midway is my preference at this scale in the Pacific.  It's ugly and it's over-priced but it really captures all the elements that I want in a game; deck management, search management, task force/fleet organization and movement/screening.  The interface is a typical HPS Sims interface that is clunky but functional yet the game is very easy to play once you learn how to work with it.

I have eyed those HPS Naval Campaign games in the past, but I got the impression that the scenario selection was also limited.  As if it only models a very specific attack with little strategic maneuver beforehand. Combined with the cost, that always made me shy away.

I also eyed the Air War series.. notably the Arab-Israeli one but again, it seemed like the scope was a bit too limited and considering I have the various Harpoon iterations and CMANO, those can probably model such things better anyway.

I got the Modern Air Combat HPS, it has heaps of scenarios and is pretty interesting and well challenging, but i suppose simpler then Cmano. Its a game of timing things right - a bit like Carriers At War. It has a cool background ambient track with recordings of arab/israeli pilot chatter - it sounds cool though it is just one track so it plays on a loop that may get irritating - the hps games always seem to have their background music on too short of a loop

[Nefaro]

Naval Campaigns Midway is my preference at this scale in the Pacific.  It's ugly and it's over-priced but it really captures all the elements that I want in a game; deck management, search management, task force/fleet organization and movement/screening.  The interface is a typical HPS Sims interface that is clunky but functional yet the game is very easy to play once you learn how to work with it.

I have eyed those HPS Naval Campaign games in the past, but I got the impression that the scenario selection was also limited.  As if it only models a very specific attack with little strategic maneuver beforehand. Combined with the cost, that always made me shy away.

I also eyed the Air War series.. notably the Arab-Israeli one but again, it seemed like the scope was a bit too limited and considering I have the various Harpoon iterations and CMANO, those can probably model such things better anyway.

I got the Modern Air Combat HPS, it has heaps of scenarios and is pretty interesting and well challenging, but i suppose simpler then Cmano. Its a game of timing things right - a bit like Carriers At War. It has a cool background ambient track with recordings of arab/israeli pilot chatter - it sounds cool though it is just one track so it plays on a loop that may get irritating - the hps games always seem to have their background music on too short of a loop

Is it just one-shot missions?  Or do the scenarios cover longer periods of time? 

I'm pretty much perma-fenced because I already have the Harpoons and CMANO, which covers a wider range of units, in wider theaters, with more detail.  I'm sure the HPS ones have value but it's difficult not to compare.

[agathosdaimon]

They vary, some hours others days, not longer - the timeframe on cmano and harpoon missions runs longer and being that the game is only limited to running sorties for air to air and air o ground and operating SA defences, it would prob get boring or repetitive, its limited and i am certain cmano outdoes it in every regard, - its goood, but one could regard it as cmano lite

[agathosdaimon]

Actually let me revise this a little - there are aspects of War of the Mid East HPS game that CMANO doesnt have (unless there has been a more recent update) - downed crews, time on target planner, and an easy way to select which weapons exaclty your flight package will use.

It also has scenarios that may only last 1-2 days but it is a complex management of running missions and meeting the challenges that come up, you can also direct the direction of movement of ground forces i found, which i didnt realise was possible and there are some varieties of weapons which perform in different ways - little things are abstracted such as probabilities of missile hits and the maps only show the flight groups not individual aircraft.

having a package of groups perform a strike on the same target is easy to do

At first i was thinking maybe the game AI is too simple but i amn wrong there - playing a Golan Heights missions - see attached, where i have to attack the Israeli purple line of bunkers which are damned hard and require alot of strikes, the mirages and whatnot of the Israelis start turning up and taking out my SAM defenses and its juggling act of having AA aircraft there to meet them - i think it is simple in its interface and not overwhelming as pausable realtime. and overall a decent game

[Toonces]

Hmmmm...I was kind of underwhelmed with War Over Vietnam, but maybe it's time to revisit the Mideast one...   ???

[Grim.Reaper]

Actually let me revise this a little - there are aspects of War of the Mid East HPS game that CMANO doesnt have (unless there has been a more recent update) - downed crews, time on target planner, and an easy way to select which weapons exaclty your flight package will use.

It also has scenarios that may only last 1-2 days but it is a complex management of running missions and meeting the challenges that come up, you can also direct the direction of movement of ground forces i found, which i didnt realise was possible and there are some varieties of weapons which perform in different ways - little things are abstracted such as probabilities of missile hits and the maps only show the flight groups not individual aircraft.

having a package of groups perform a strike on the same target is easy to do

At first i was thinking maybe the game AI is too simple but i amn wrong there - playing a Golan Heights missions - see attached, where i have to attack the Israeli purple line of bunkers which are damned hard and require alot of strikes, the mirages and whatnot of the Israelis start turning up and taking out my SAM defenses and its juggling act of having AA aircraft there to meet them - i think it is simple in its interface and not overwhelming as pausable realtime. and overall a decent game

You mention having something attached to your message....not seeing it unless its just me.

[agathosdaimon]

sorry it was an attachment of the image - silly me i neglected t upload it

[TacticalWargames]

The scenario editor in War Over Vietnam is excellent with lots of possibilities. Shame no one every did anything with it.

I'm sure Korea could have been modded.

[Nefaro]

I would get War over the Mideast if it wasn't for the price.  Thirty scenarios for fifty bucks.. I don't think I can justify that if the scenarios aren't very long or large.  It gives the impression of being a bit content limited, perhaps.

[jomni]

My experience with that game is not good. You have already pre-planned strikes.  So nothing to do but press the play button and watch and manage a bit of the action.  Unless you delete the pre-planned routes and packages and make your own, but what's the point?  I tried sandbox mode but ordinance was an issue.
Then you have to search for installations.  That means they are hidden from your view unless you are in range. You fly recon, then take note of the location.  They disappear when the recon goes away instead of being persistent.  So you gotta remember what you saw and where.  For modern setting, what happened to maps and satellite images?

Battle damage assessment feature is nice. :)

[Nefaro]

My experience with that game is not good. You have already pre-planned strikes.  So nothing to do but press the play button and watch and manage a bit of the action.  Unless you delete the pre-planned routes and packages and make your own, but what's the point?  I tried sandbox mode but ordinance was an issue.

There are Sandbox scenarios?  Are you also saying that they have weapons problems?

Then you have to search for installations.  That means they are hidden from your view unless you are in range. You fly recon, then take note of the location.  They disappear when the recon goes away instead of being persistent.  So you gotta remember what you saw and where.  For modern setting, what happened to maps and satellite images?

Battle damage assessment feature is nice. :)

The searching requirement is nice (a must I would say) but it's rather odd that they disappear from the map, forcing you to memorize it yourself.  It's not like we want to take a grease pencil to our monitors!  Dubya Tee Eff?

[jomni]

Just to clarify, some stuff like airbases are always known.

As for sandbox, there is a mode called ATO editor.  You start with no plans on the map and start assigning packages.  In theory the mission results (target damage, casualties) carry over from one to the next.  I had problems with ordinance availability but I don't remember the details.

[agathosdaimon]

In the golan heights crisis i played, i had heaps of aircraft and airbases playing as the Arab nations and there were no preplanned missions for me, i have jad to choose what i want to send where.

The game isnt super realistic, but i think it does things well enough and i like that you can have downed pilots to then pick up, and also things like losses due to plane mechanical failures  which happened to me one of my aircraft soon after take off. There is also delays with getting multiple flights airborne but the follow option makes it easy to keep the groups on the same path. It reminds me a little of fleet command and the older Airforce commander games

But if you want to know how it plays there is a basic and free Modern air combat app from john tiller which uses the game engine and interface but set over korea in modern day, it though seems to be on a easy setting though i found but at least can show how the other games function

[The_Admiral]

Hello Ladies & Gents,

Sorry for the necromancer act, but it is kinda worth it.
As some innocent souls out there might know already  :arr: I am currently working on a little project of mine that might *somewhat* involve carriers. The thread might be old, but outside of the few ones that exist at Matrixgames, it is certainly one packed with the right mix of competence and nostalgia I am currently after.

If any of you old hands have anything (s)he'd like to share about the topic, would you be so nice as to tell me, for your preferred carrier games (be it the old CAW, the newer CAW, Carrier Strike or else), in terms of game design/historicity/feeling:
- What were the three things you liked most  ;
- What were the three things you hated most  ;
- What were the three things it didn't have, that you wish it had. 

Thanks in advance to the few who will indulge me and will be kind enough to play that little game...!

Best,

Amiral

[jomni]

Hello Ladies & Gents,

Sorry for the necromancer act, but it is kinda worth it.
As some innocent souls out there might know already  :arr: I am currently working on a little project of mine that might *somewhat* involve carriers. The thread might be old, but outside of the few ones that exist at Matrixgames, it is certainly one packed with the right mix of competence and nostalgia I am currently after.

If any of you old hands have anything (s)he'd like to share about the topic, would you be so nice as to tell me, for your preferred carrier games (be it the old CAW, the newer CAW, Carrier Strike or else), in terms of game design/historicity/feeling:
- What were the three things you liked most  ;
- What were the three things you hated most  ;
- What were the three things it didn't have, that you wish it had. 

Thanks in advance to the few who will indulge me and will be kind enough to play that little game...!

Best,

Amiral

Carrier strike random missions. Better replay ability vs Carriers at War.