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Point of Attack 2

Started by Jarhead0331, August 03, 2022, 10:53:15 AM

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Jarhead0331

August 03, 2022, 10:53:15 AM
Does anybody out there actually have this game and if so, have you played it? What are your thoughts? Is it worth the $50? How does it compare to a more modern system like CMO? I suspect that the main difference (other than the UI) will be that POA focuses on ground combat, whereas the emphasis in CMO is on naval and air action.

For some reason I have a bug up my rear about this title and Maneuver Warfare (available on Steam) and am dangerously close to buying them both.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

Jarhead0331

#1
August 03, 2022, 11:48:31 AM
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

Jarhead0331

#2
August 03, 2022, 01:43:12 PM
I went ahead and got POA2. They released another big update last year and I felt like doing it just to spite RyanE.  :crazy2:
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

al_infierno

#3
August 03, 2022, 02:10:42 PM
This is the Shrapnel Games title, right?  Curious to know what your thoughts are if it's worth the money.  Most Shrapnel titles are fairly janky and tend to miss more than they hit, IMO.

I wonder where RyanE has been.  You could always count on him to put the "grognard" back into "grogheads"  O0
A War of a Madman's Making - a text-based war planning and political survival RPG

It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Jarhead0331

#4
August 03, 2022, 02:17:04 PM
No...its not Shrapnel. Its published by HPS.

I dunno...I'm playing around with it and so far I am very impressed. It is extremely detailed as far as ground combat. I've just poked around, but from what I've seen is definitely giving me wood.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

al_infierno

#5
August 03, 2022, 02:20:10 PM
Ahh right.  This one: https://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/POA2/POA2.asp

Been interested in this one for a while.  Does it play a bit like Command Ops 2?
A War of a Madman's Making - a text-based war planning and political survival RPG

It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Jarhead0331

#6
August 03, 2022, 02:28:55 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on August 03, 2022, 02:20:10 PM
Ahh right.  This one: https://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/POA2/POA2.asp

Been interested in this one for a while.  Does it play a bit like Command Ops 2?

No. I don't think so. It appears to be more turn-based, with time moving forward in pulses. It is extremely "groggy", with weaponry, ammo, fuel, comms, etc. There are even staff officers (S1, S2, S3, S4), very detailed physics and LOS systems, etc. I can't say whether its implemented well yet, but there is an extreme level of detail. Check out the 493 page manual. Its available from the link you posted.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

al_infierno

#7
August 03, 2022, 02:29:21 PM
Woof!  Consider me titillated  :smitten:
A War of a Madman's Making - a text-based war planning and political survival RPG

It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Jarhead0331

#8
August 03, 2022, 02:33:15 PM
It's pretty amusing because its main detractors out there on the web claim this always happens. Every few years, someone else on some forum surfaces, praising the level of detail and trying to get people to jump in and buy it, but that despite so many years of development and poor communication from the developer, it still suffers from a lot of technical issues. Most of these threads I found predated the Sep 2021 update, so who knows what state it is in now. So far though, its been crash free.

The system is definitely archaic. There are a lot of pop up windows and tables. It's not unlike Aurora in some ways...it definitely feels a bit like playing a spread sheet. But I love that shit. Its not for everyone though.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

Jarhead0331

#9
August 03, 2022, 02:41:44 PM
OK...slow down. I'm running some pulses and starting to run into some technical issues. I'm getting a warning that the game is using more than 4 cores and may cause memory/EEFACE issues.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

al_infierno

#10
August 03, 2022, 02:47:50 PM
 :-X
A War of a Madman's Making - a text-based war planning and political survival RPG

It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Jarhead0331

#11
August 03, 2022, 03:09:12 PM Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 03:11:43 PM by Jarhead0331
Quote from: al_infierno on August 03, 2022, 02:47:50 PM
:-X

I solved the memory problem. There is actually a performance setting where you can select how many cores to use and there is a warning that setting it to more than 4 can create memory issues. Mine was set to 5. I dropped it down to 4 and the problem disappeared. Pulses still take more time than they should and there is a slight delay when pressing tabs and buttons in the UI. This must be due to the old code and is just something that we'll have to deal with in order to play. I wonder if this will be a bigger problem on larger scenarios. Right now, I'm only commanding two companies of Abrams.

One indication of the level of detail is that vehicles create dust and smoke as they move across the desert. This is factored into sighting apparently. Pretty cool seeing the sand and smoke visualized on the map.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

Jarhead0331

#12
August 03, 2022, 05:48:39 PM
I finished one of the tutorial scenarios and overall, I really enjoyed it. Very simple scenario involving 2 companies of US tanks making a minor assault against an Iraqi objective defended by some mines and approximately one company of T-72s in defensive positions.  Not surprisingly, it was an overwhelming victory for the US and although I did not have to manage casualties, breakdowns, or any advanced comms (ie. fire support, CAS, etc.) or any combined arms tasks like mounting/dismounting infantry, etc., you can get a flavor for the complexity based on the attached screenshot. Check out the MOE report and some of the stats that are collected regarding transmissions.  There is a lot going on under the hood here and I suspect that's why things sometimes chug along. Calculating LOS seems to cause the biggest delay. Nothing crazy, but noticeable. i understand there are performance settings to modify how LOS is calculated, but I need to read about that in the manual.

Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

Jarhead0331

#13
August 03, 2022, 06:11:29 PM
The map system is very flexible and some of the scenarios are created using very high detail maps with an interactive satellite layer.  Pretty cool.



Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18

Sigwolf

#14
August 03, 2022, 08:58:00 PM
Definitely intriguing, though I am not sure I want to spend $50 on it.  Judging from the HPS website that appears to not have seen an update since around 1990, I assume they are still of the old-school wargame belief that games should never be discounted, or do they actually have occasional sales?   >:D

Maneuver Warfare also looks interesting, but that UI is *rough*.  They somehow made it looked more dated than the much older POA2.  Less than a dozen reviews (even if all positive) on a two year old game also does not seem encouraging, even for a niche game outside the normal Steam fare.
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