Best Intro Wargame

Started by bayonetbrant, February 07, 2012, 07:55:13 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

bayonetbrant

And Risk doesn't count.  Neither does Stratego.

What's the best wargame you've found for introducing people to wargaming?  What are the basic tenets of tabletop wargaming they need to grasp and what games do the best job of laying those out for them?  How do you explain the concepts of movement, quantified combat power, etc and what games have helped you do that?
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

LongBlade

Simple is best.

Lock 'n Load's Tank of Tank. Reaching back a couple decades, something like Steve Jackson's Ogre or GEV.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Gusington

Why doesn't Risk count? How about Axis and Allies?


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

son_of_montfort

#3
Quote from: Gusington on February 07, 2012, 10:46:48 AM
Why doesn't Risk count? How about Axis and Allies?

I'm with Gus here... Risk and Axis & Allies were my entries into the field.

But I would say Memoir 44. Simple, tactical minis game, enough war to please a wargamer, easy enough for the newbie. It has terrain modifiers and other "hardcore' elements (like movement points, LOS, and flanking), but also has limited choice through card play.

Speaking of Steve Jackson's Ogre... any news on the reprint? Also any news on how I can get my hands on the reprint?
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert

W8taminute

You know as much as I hated the computer version, I really like Memoir '44 the board game.  I found it to be ideal for solitaire play but with a friend is better.
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

LongBlade

Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 07, 2012, 12:06:21 PM
Quote from: Gusington on February 07, 2012, 10:46:48 AM
Why doesn't Risk count? How about Axis and Allies?

I'm with Gus here... Risk and Axis & Allies were my entries into the field.

But I would say Memoir 44. Simple, tactical minis game, enough war to please a wargamer, easy enough for the newbie. It has terrain modifiers and other "hardcore' elements (like movement points, LOS, and flanking), but also has limited choice through card play.

Speaking of Steve Jackson's Ogre... any news on the reprint? Also any news on how I can get my hands on the reprint?

I have not kept up with the reprint.

SJG will often send press copies for review, but I don't think I'm the guy to ask for one. When they released their minis game ten years ago I raved about it. I then asked for a copy of Frag, which they sent me. I gave it average marks - the game was too dependent on dice rolls. I don't think they liked that and they have never sent me another copy of anything for review. So if you want a copy, I would suggest you ask them directly and assiduously avoid mentioning my name.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Jack Nastyface

#6
I'm of a few minds on "best intro wargame"...

I've introduced a few kids to wargames using minis-based games, like Wings of War, and had positive results.  The rules are simple, the minis are nice, and there is nice "imagination" element to the game.  Plus, ambient sound effects (takka-takka-takka!) are not out of place.  Some of the kids I have played with have shown an interest in moving onto to other games, like Axis and Allies minis, or even the Star Wars mini game.

When it comes to adults, finding the right era and scale can be critical.  My first "real" wargame was D-Day by Avalon Hill...although I like the era, I couldn't stand the scale.  When I later played Midway (also AH) and I saw that individual counters represented individual ships, I was totally hooked.  When I later tried recruiting friends to play wargames, some responded well to man-to-man games (Melee, Car Wars, basic rules Flight Leader, various RPG's) but others liked the large scale battle or theatre games.

Time commitment is definately another factor.  Finding something that can be taught and played over a couple of hours has its benefits.  I was recently introduced to a Combat Commander in this way, and thought it would possibly be a good intro game.

FWIW...I tend to steer new players away from massive collectible games, like Warhammer, only because they represent a big investment.

Yours in gaming,

Jack Nastyface


Now, the problem is, how to divide five Afghans from three mules and have two Englishmen left over.

southern_cross_116

I'm wondeering if maybe that Airborne game by Avalanche Press might work ( I haven't had the time to get into the Panzer Grenadier system -but have read their one page rule blurb that they used to (might still for all I know) include with their games. 

Although, I started, back in the day with AH's War at Sea and Tactics II. 
RW/LW
Bravehearts Hockey Club

Graphics Coordinator, Artist, etc... for JTS
Owner/Webmaster:
Scenario Design Center (hist-sdc.com)

LongBlade

Quote from: southern_cross_116 on February 07, 2012, 05:56:14 PM
I'm wondeering if maybe that Airborne game by Avalanche Press might work ( I haven't had the time to get into the Panzer Grenadier system -but have read their one page rule blurb that they used to (might still for all I know) include with their games. 

Although, I started, back in the day with AH's War at Sea and Tactics II.

I've got a copy but never played it. Not even sure if I read the entire rules.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

TheCommandTent

I was another Risk and Axis & Allies convert.  Memoir 44 also has a valid argument.

IMHO the game should be easy to learn and easy to master in order to introduce someone into the genre.  From there depending on their tastes I think would dictate what to do next.
"No wants, no needs, we weren't meant for that, none of us.  Man stagnates if he has no ambition, no desire to be more than he is."

Epee1

#10
Victory by Columbia Games. 

Lots of scenarios, tons of maps, easy rules, with expansion sets to add complexity as you learn.

Arctic Blast

No Retreat from GMT would be a good one. Simple supply rules, and you'll avoid bombarding them with 7,000 counters on a paper map. But it still covers weather effects, terrain modifiers, strategic rail movement and all that.

Command & Colors : Napoleonics would be suggestion #2. It has a little more detail than Memoir...multiple unit types and sub types with different attack and movement rates...but still isn't too difficult to grasp. Terrain effects, combined arms, leaders, all that stuff is in there.


son_of_montfort

I concur with the Command and Colors suggestion. I believe there is even an iOS version of the Ancients one that would be a cheaper and quicker learning tool.

LB, I think the reprint of Ogre is a limited run, so they probably don't care about or want reviews. I may just take the plunge, depending on the price.
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert

Arctic Blast

I think I read somewhere that Ogre was delayed. Again. He's been talking about this game for years now, so you have to wonder if maybe he's getting cold feet about actually producing it.

bayonetbrant

Quote from: Arctic Blast on February 09, 2012, 01:33:33 AM
I think I read somewhere that Ogre was delayed. Again. He's been talking about this game for years now, so you have to wonder if maybe he's getting cold feet about actually producing it.

I think it's a race between the Ogre reprint, and the Up Front reprint, for the Duke Nukem vaporware award of games-that-are-never-coming-out.
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers