Using Vassal

[demjansk1942]

I know this thread might be better off the the board game section.  However, I was wondering about the players who use it and if they have any recommendations?  I downloaded and fiddled with it but it looks like a lot of work to play even one turn.

I wonder is it just useful in case you don't have room in the home for a board?

What do you guys think about the program?

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

It's not as intuitive or as nice to look at as Tabletop Simulator but it does allow for PBEM which is a nice feature.  A lot of it depends on how well each module has been designed.  Some are very slick with many of the features being fully automated. 

Having said that, I don't really use it that often.  I like playing on a physical board, face to face.  I find that if I'm going to be in front of my PC anyway, I'd rather play a game designed for the PC over a digital copy of a boardgame.

[W8taminute]

Vassal was hard for me at first.  I eventually figured out how to play games on it just by tinkering around.  To date I've successfully played Vietnam: 1965-1975 and The US Civil War. 

I have yet to try playing PBEM with someone.

[ArizonaTank]

I have used Vassal for many years and I have been using Table Top Simulator now for several years as well.

One of the great strengths of Vassal is that most of the major wargame publishers actively support it. So you can find modules for the vast majority of games from GMT, MMP, Compass, Legion, Worthington, etc. Older, out of business publishers are also well represented such as Avalon Hill, Victory Games, Yaquinto, TSR, 3W, etc. Recently, the copyright holder of SPI games has opened the flood gates so many of those titles will start to be available.

TTS is still early days, so while there are many games with modules, the coverage is somewhat haphazard, and the quality is sometimes sketchy. 

Vassal is so important to me, that I will not buy a game if there is no Vassal module for it. This is because even for solitaire play purposes, I usually use Vassal. Mostly because I like to play monster games, and I just don't have the table space for them. Vassal is a convenient way to play these games and not have to fight with my wife about hogging up the dinner table for a month.

As already mentioned, Vassal is still King for play by email. The reason is that it has a "log" feature that allows you to record your move so that your opponent can "play" it back. TTS is sorely missing a similar feature. There is a loose group of players from Grogheads who have been playing various Vassal PBEM multi-player games for years. Mostly GMT COIN games up to this point. It might take a few months to finish a game PBEM, but we would get it done.

As far as real-time game play is concerned, I use Vassal all the time. I have been playing some of the same guys for years. Both of them are on the East Coast, and I am in Arizona. We use Discord to for voice communication, and Vassal manages the game itself. Right now for example, I am playing GMT's Gringo and GMT's Stalingrad '42 that way.

I think TTS is definitely stronger when it comes to real-time multiplayer however. While Vassal works in this mode, TTS just feels better with group play, I can't explain it. That same Grogheads affiliated group I mentioned above has been gradually drifting towards real-time TTS games.

My recommendation would be to learn Vassal on a relatively simple game. I usually teach new players on the old Avalon Hill Afrika Korps game. Also, experiment vigorously with the module. Open all the toolbar buttons. Select a piece on the board and use right-mouse to bring up the context menu for the unit. Test out all of the commands to see how they work etc.

http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Afrika_Korps

If you want to play AH's Afrika Korps via PBEM as a Vassal test run, IM me.

In the end, I think you will find that Vassal is pretty intuitive, once you get past the initial speed bumps.

[SlagDog]

I have used it for a couple of games with great success. I thought it was intuitive and pretty straightforward. It really depends on the Vassal designer and how they put the mechanics together. I used it extensively on a simple game (Richard Borg's Commands and Colors: Ancients) and then on a monster game (Compass Games Silent War). I found it really streamlined game play, especially with Silent War since there are so many 'moving' pieces to keep track of. I also have a simplified rule set for ASL that I used with the excellent VASL module for Vassal. I'm blown away with the huge amount of content modules Vassal actually has. Now I haven't used it in a few years so I'm not current with the most up to date version but back in the day I enjoyed using it.

[JasonPratt]

Wholeheartedly agree with Larry (AzTank)! -- we started that group together.  O:-)

Another point in VASSAL's favor is the ease of the Undo feature: you can wash back through every move you've made so far, if you need to. TTS's undo feature is okay, but a little clunky. For example, in TTS you almost never succeed in undoing anything on the first click; and undo always zoom-rotates you out to the starting generic camera position which can make it difficult to see when the undo has actually undid what you were trying to undo  :pullhair: ; and if your module has a ton of things loaded in, then undo can take forever even on a beefy supercomputer. (The only way around this is to create a save where you can delete everything but what you're absolutely sure you're going to play with.) Even after all that, TTS can get a little finicky about what undoes sometimes, and undoing can break a module's scripting, too. VASSAL has never given me any trouble on this at all. (I suppose it's possible a VASSAL module's script might be broken by undoing, but I've never personally seen it.)

The logfile as a save function is very nice, too, and something TTS totally lacks. I can go back and watch what other players have been doing by scrubbing through their logfiles since my previous turn, rather than just getting a save file of the most recent position. The logfile even records undos!

So, I think VASSAL is worth poking at to figure out how to make work, although I certainly sympathize about its functionality being rather obscure sometimes (even when the mod designer has left notes).

That being said, I have never once played a VASSAL module solo: if both systems have the game available, I'd rather play TTS solo, and if it isn't on TTS then good grief I have so many other options available I just don't bother with VASSAL. And usually (bugs and problematic design choices aside), a digital version of a game is just better solo anyway.

The same is true for live play: I'd rather do TTS than VASSAL. (I'm not against doing VASSAL live, if there's no other feasible option.)

So I only use VASSAL for asynch multiplayer, and even then I find it's usually better to find a good digital adaptation which allows such a thing.

[demjansk1942]

Thanks guys for the valuable answers.  I noticed that tts is on sale but not sure if I will buy it.  I guess I might take you on Arizona with a game but let me look at the module.  I actually had that game tears ago and it disappeared

[smittyohio]

My biggest gripe about Vassal is that the area for die rolls, move notifications, etc can't be docked somewhere else.   Maybe that's changed or is an option I've missed, but it just takes up so much real estate when it feel like it could either be docked to the side or be a floating modeless window or something.

[Yskonyn]

It can be if you undock it. There is an option.
Dont have it ready, but can send a screenshot if you cant find it yourself.

[Phantom]

I'd certainly persevere with it, once you get the hang of a few relatively simple routines its very intuitive. I play several games on it, though my only professionally implemented game is  Nimitz Fleet commander which is excellent, and makes the gameplay easier by automating several functions.
I've also played TTS but find it can be a bit clunky with a deft hand needed to maneuver pieces & cards, something I don't find a problem in Vassal, though maybe this is only down to practice.
Regards
Keith

[GroggyGrognard]

I've always had a good overall experience with VASSAL. I had a wargameing buddy of mine teach me years ago how to perform turns and send them via email. This helped alot with learning and getting to know the VASSAL platform. We played wargames from The Gamers through VASSAL and have had lots of entertaining games.  I haven't played any other modules besides wargames from The Gamers.


Groggy

[smittyohio]

It can be if you undock it. There is an option.
Dont have it ready, but can send a screenshot if you cant find it yourself.

Thanks for the heads up!   I finally found it, though the wording on the option was so odd I never would have tried it without you mentioning it was available.