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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: mikeck on July 17, 2013, 07:41:59 PM

Title: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on July 17, 2013, 07:41:59 PM
Here is James' preview of the Dominions 4 alpha...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OB78utM7y3g

Otherwise known as "the game that looks EXACTLY like Dominions 3"! I mean seriously, you can't upgrade the graphics? Map looks a bit sharper but take a look at the tactical battle; I don't see a damned difference.

I know the graphics arent what makes the game great, but c'mon man
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Jarhead0331 on July 17, 2013, 09:44:34 PM
Yeah. If not upgrading the graphics, what's the point. Is a pretty damn good game otherwise.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on July 17, 2013, 10:11:22 PM
One of my big wishes was that they'd improve the random map generator's terrain art.  That stuff looks terrible.  The creature sprites & such are fine.. but the maps look like dog vomit after it ate cow shit.   :)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: spelk on July 18, 2013, 02:56:13 AM
Putting a golden curvy border around your dialogue boxes does not a new version of the game make.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on July 18, 2013, 03:54:46 AM
I'll probably get flagged for being a fanboy, but instead of not looking further than your nose is long, you should take a good look at the features list on the illwinter website.
Then read the preview articles linked in de Dom 4 post in the 'Looking for Opponents' forums.

The game is an evolution, not a different game.
The devs are two (2!) guys, doing it because they like it. You cannot expect A grade graphics.
And yes, they are sprites, but they have All been upgraded. Consider what a life's work of pixel art that is to retouch hundreds and hundreds of sprites?

Besides, this keeps the game highly moddable.

The map graphics can be as fancy as you want. Dominions always supported a mapeditor where you can import about anything and make it into a map for the game. Dom 4 will have no less.

Dom 4 is going to be a quality of life upgrade to an already great game. Not a new game. And that is fine.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on July 18, 2013, 09:00:56 AM
Sorry, I disagree. It's not a graphics game and I get that. But I don't care how many guys are designing it, it's 2013 and I should be able to expect post 1999 graphics. I live the game, will buy it and appreciate the new features, but I don't see what's wrong with expecting a graphical upgrade for a game that already had extremely dated graphics.

I look at my pixel army and can't tell if someone is holding a sword and shield or a crossbow for Pete's sake
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Grim.Reaper on July 18, 2013, 09:23:40 AM
Sounds a lot like the hps sims series of games...they never consider graphic updates
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Rayfer on July 18, 2013, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 18, 2013, 09:23:40 AM
Sounds a lot like the hps sims series of games...they never consider graphic updates

Exactly! And I wish they would because I love their games. As much as we say it is things like gameplay and ai that drives our love for a game...we also enjoy a little chrome here and there to liven up the experience, make it enjoyable to the eyes as well as the brain.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on July 18, 2013, 10:09:38 AM
Quote from: Yskonyn on July 18, 2013, 03:54:46 AM
I'll probably get flagged for being a fanboy, but instead of not looking further than your nose is long, you should take a good look at the features list on the illwinter website.
Then read the preview articles linked in de Dom 4 post in the 'Looking for Opponents' forums.

The game is an evolution, not a different game.


I think we're all fans of the game, here.  I had just hoped that one of the major eye sores had been improved in this version (the random map gfx).  They didn't need to be super beautiful or anything, just nice if the look had been improved.  :(

The extra features and new stuff sounds great.  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on July 18, 2013, 11:24:18 AM
I'm not worried by the lack of graphics update.

I'm also in total agreement with Yskonyn, there is a lot more going on that just curvy banners and new maps. The Thrones of Ascension victory locations are pretty cool, the AI is supposedly getting a little be of a retool (how much is debated), and there are multiple UI and option upgrades - including better control over the way wizards cast spells.

Further, supposedly most ages are getting several new factions and units, so that is nice.

The big thing is that the original used to cost ~$60. Now Illwinter is able to chug it out and charge only $29.99. For a fanboi like me, this is an excellent price even for incremental upgrades.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: SgtRock on July 18, 2013, 12:29:38 PM
Looks too much like been there done that, with the same graphics, poor UI, and not that much new. They should have done a kick-starter to add an artist, UI programer, and some new blood to the project.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on July 18, 2013, 12:35:04 PM
I have the feeling a kickstarter would have failed.

I think both sides have a point here; there're more than enough juicy new features to easily justify the cost of Dom4.  Admittedly a graphical upgrade would be nice in theory, but I suspect it just wasn't feasible for a tiny outfit like Illwinter.  Getting the game right is far more important.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on July 18, 2013, 12:40:13 PM
Why change a winning team?
Besides, I dare to debate that the graphics are among the biggest development cost for any game project. Don't forget these guys are little more than 'garage coders'. They have a limited budget.

I don't see where people can be disappointed about the lack of fancy graphics, while all Illwinter's games have had the same style. Including their latest offering CoE 3.

The Illwinter Dom 4 page also stated there were going to be upgraded sprites, no graphical overhaul and the screenshots supported that.

Now that a video comes out showing the game in action, suddenly we are amazed about the graphics and we need to post a ranty thread about it?
Come on, that's not fair.

Be real. These guys are updating a labour of love. An update to an already stellar game with the means they have.
Sure, if Dom 3 didn't appeal to you, Dom 4 probably will not either, but I think a rant about what they should have done with the game upgrade is unfair given their background.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Faux on July 18, 2013, 01:22:07 PM
To be frank that video is pretty horrible and the guy just simply doesn't know what he's talking about. There has been loads of UI improvements and not only does he not mention them he's also blatantly lying in few occasions. The usability upgrades are one of the big new things in Dom 4 and the video hardly showcases them at all. Granted it's not the most user friendly game out there but really it's not that bad for a game of this scope.

Also I don't really think it's even reasonable to expect Illwinter to basically rewrite the game engine from scratch just for graphical improvements. They are just two guys and only one of them doing the programming and they work on Dominions in their free time. Besides, a huge amount of work has been put into upgrading all the old and mushy sprites for Dom 4. If there's something they realistically could and should improve it's the sound effects.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: SgtRock on July 18, 2013, 01:33:29 PM
QuoteDon't forget these guys are little more than 'garage coders
- I don't think that's true, just that the Dominion games where done part time. They'll never get any bigger doing the same thing with the same graphics. There are 10 year old game with better graphics. A kick starter could take them and the game to the next level.





Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Faux on July 18, 2013, 01:41:56 PM
Quote from: SgtRock on July 18, 2013, 01:33:29 PM
QuoteDon't forget these guys are little more than 'garage coders
- I don't think that's true, just that the Dominion games where done part time. They'll never get any bigger doing the same thing with the same graphics. There are 10 year old game with better graphics. A kick starter could take them and the game to the next level.

The thing is that they really are 'garage coders'. Illwinter is just two persons and no more. They have outside help for the manual (Bruce Geryk) and the music is made by a relatively unknown Swedish folk music duo. These guys have regular day jobs and I highly doubt they want to commit to carrying out a funded project like a kickstarter.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on July 18, 2013, 03:13:24 PM
I actually like the sprite/pixel art.  I'm not bitching about the graphics as a whole.. had just hoped that the rather bland vanilla map terrain could be touched up.  Being a long-time wargamer, I'm a bit of a map whore and enjoy the pretty ones.

I'm happy that some of the units got touched-up, they'll probably look a bit more crisp.  :)  I'd rather not have 3D graphics in a deep strategy game primarily because it often entails you have to juggle 3D camera controls around which is just work to me.  Am I one of the oddballs for not wanting 3D gfx in Dominions??

Not that big of a deal... perhaps sometime in the future I'll be spoiled with new map textures.  Doesn't hurt bringing it up.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: tgb on July 18, 2013, 06:58:34 PM
I never bought Dom 3 because of the outrageous price Shrapnel was charging.  I WAS going to pick it up at the lower $30 price point, but I had other games to play, and at this point might as well wait until next month and just get 4.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on July 18, 2013, 09:35:39 PM
Like Nefaro, I don't want 3d Gfx in Dominions 4 either. What I do want is crisper 2d sprites and a better map. Maybe replace the white lines showing which provinces from where you are drawing resources with something....other than plain white lines?  I don't know, for me, a little bit of graphics goes along way for immersion. I will buy it day one because I love Dominions 3 so much...just feels like a "unit pack" DLC
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on July 19, 2013, 01:18:11 AM
Well then you probably found Dom 3 a unit pack DLC over Dom 2 as well.
That's what I mean with being fair; The history of Illwinter's products should make it quite clear what to expect and what not.

Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: spelk on July 19, 2013, 04:22:23 AM
Can you blame folks who like the current game despite its (subjective) shortcomings for hoping for big changes in the next incarnation? Its just a normal natural aspiration, to see something that you invest time in and hope that it becomes a lot more.

You can reason away why this is a timid evolution any which way you want, but ultimately most of the people here making the comments are Dom3 players (who probably jumped through hoops and expense to get the game!) looking for something a little more.

And Dom3 was released in 2006. 7 years ago! Surely, after 7 years we can at least hope for more on the visual/design front, as well as all the technicalities of mechanics?

Look to Arcen Games for one mand band, garage coders who have done stellar things, constant updates and revamps and total engine re-writes to take in new visual and UI design ethics. AI War was so good a strategy game that it afforded Chris Park the luxury of then being able to work on his games full time. Come on Illwinter, follow the main man Park! :)

Lets shoot for the moon!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on July 19, 2013, 05:54:15 AM
You can expect all you want, but I just point out that expecting big graphical changes are not realistic because :
A) the dev studio is small with a low budget
B) All their games have this similar graphics style, even their latest offering. Never did we see any real progress in presentation fidelity.
C) until recently the devs have always stated there was no work going on to create the next version of Dom. (Might have had to do with them wanting to get rid of Shrapnel first, I dont know).

If we are all Dom 3 players I expect us to be informed about the game and the devs. Ranting like a pouting child about how the graphics are lacking in the new version does seem rather disconnected.

Sure, I would like a high res, highly detailed presentation for Dom too. I am just pointing out it isn't realistic to expect it. And the way this thread started out just came across as a pouty rant. There, I said it.

:)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on July 19, 2013, 08:09:13 AM
Quote from: Yskonyn on July 19, 2013, 05:54:15 AM
You can expect all you want, but I just point out that expecting big graphical changes are not realistic because :
A) the dev studio is small with a low budget
B) All their games have this similar graphics style, even their latest offering. Never did we see any real progress in presentation fidelity.
C) until recently the devs have always stated there was no work going on to create the next version of Dom. (Might have had to do with them wanting to get rid of Shrapnel first, I dont know).

If we are all Dom 3 players I expect us to be informed about the game and the devs. Ranting like a pouting child about how the graphics are lacking in the new version does seem rather disconnected.

Sure, I would like a high res, highly detailed presentation for Dom too. I am just pointing out it isn't realistic to expect it. And the way this thread started out just came across as a pouty rant. There, I said it.

:)

Ok, let's not make it personal or nasty. I don't think anyone is pouting or ranting. Just disappointed.

I get what your saying, but what I think some of us are trying to say is that we are not asking for "big graphical changes". We aren't expecting an update to 3d or something. We it want a "small noticeable minute graphical update"...any...graphical update. Especially if you are going to charge me $30

I can't speak to Dominions 2 as I never bought it. Like I said, I'm buying 4 anyway. I just don't think it was too much to expect the developer to improve what many believed to be the one weakness (the others being lack of diplomacy which also wasn't addressed and SP AI which was I believe)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: spelk on July 19, 2013, 09:04:19 AM
I initially found the UI and clunky Art assets a big barrier to "getting into the game". It took me quite a while, and quite a fair amount of persistance to get rolling with it. It's not bad once you're used to what is on offer. Just 7 years of wait, and the next incarnation could use some love to make the game more accessible to folks who are not as persistant or forgiving. No pouting. Hoped for more fundamental changes in the areas I personally found the game troublesome when coming to it.

I'm not a lost sale. I'll still buy Dom4 as soon as possilbe. I imported Dom3 from the US at great expense. I tried to get my Disc license converted to a Desura license so I could run/update the game through that distribution channel. No answer from Illwinter on that front. So I bought it again, at a much reduced cost on Desura. I'm not the enemy. I'm a supporter. So I feel like I'm allowed a moment or two of disappointment to know that Dom4 won't be rejigged for more accessibility in the way that I hoped. And if I'm not Dom fan enough to take it on the chin and completely understand their predicament, then so be it. But I didn't pout! I've got too many games (past, present and future) to pout over all the minor disappointments. ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: SgtRock on July 19, 2013, 09:07:41 AM
I own and enjoyed Dom2 & Dom3 but, was hoping they would take the game to the next level, sadly Dom4 doesn't do this.


Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on July 19, 2013, 10:34:46 AM
I dont intend to attack anyone personally. I just respond to what's being posted and how it comes across to me.
I am glad we all remain a nice Dom family. :D
Family members can discuss such things, can they not? ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on July 19, 2013, 11:37:18 AM
Quote from: Yskonyn on July 19, 2013, 05:54:15 AM

C) until recently the devs have always stated there was no work going on to create the next version of Dom. (Might have had to do with them wanting to get rid of Shrapnel first, I dont know).



I've also suspected the publisher thing to be the reason for previous claims of nothing further.  Glad that changed.

QuoteRanting like a pouting child about how the graphics are lacking in the new version does seem rather disconnected.

If you're referring to my complaint about the stock map textures, I had only hoped to see them improved sometime soon.  Not toss a fit and threaten to boycott or some such craziness.  I wanted to convey what is on my wishlist for the Dominions series, not demand it.  I didn't take anyones criticisms here as such, either.  Perhaps you're reading more passion in them than is actually present?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Faux on July 19, 2013, 11:45:51 AM
Quote from: mikeck on July 19, 2013, 08:09:13 AM
We aren't expecting an update to 3d or something. We it want a "small noticeable minute graphical update"...any...graphical update. Especially if you are going to charge me $30

Numerous sprites have been upgraded. I believe all the old sprites that were from 1 and 2 are remade and some of 3's bad ones were given a facelift. In general the sprites are way sharper in Dom 4.

Basically what Dom 4 is is what people generally consider an expansion pack. Some people might argue that the price is too high for some new game mechanics, UI improvements here and there and some new content and they make a valid point. I still think making it a sequel is a good move and knowing Illwinter they will be patching and improving their new game for years to come. Hell, Dom 3 - a game from 2006, got its latest patch just a week or two ago. It's been long since the Dominions series got this much attention.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on July 19, 2013, 04:02:01 PM
I read that there had been some AI improvements and then read another site that said there had not. Anyone know? Frankly, I found the Ai in 3 decent enough but then again, I'm not very good. Obviously I mean SP AI.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on July 19, 2013, 04:08:09 PM
Yeah, I have read the same. Granted I probably won't notice any difference either, as I am not particularly good at playing the game. :P
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on July 20, 2013, 02:53:40 PM
FYI, as Faux pointed out, take James Allen's preview with a grain of salt. He is just a player and not involved in the development. He tends to do his reviews and previews "off the cuff" and has been criticized before for inaccuracies when reviewing wargames (long and sordid story). For info on the UI changes you would be better off looking at these sites:

http://thurot.com/2013/07/13/dominions-4/

http://www.matchstickeyes.com/2013/07/15/whats-new-in-dominions-4-thrones-of-ascension/

I love the sprite art as well, and I'm actually glad the graphics have not been updated. TBH, I think the retro style makes me much more "at home" than some of these games that "put 3D in just to put 3D in." Yes, I'm looking at you, recent Heroes of Might and Magic games.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on July 20, 2013, 03:15:26 PM
So long as they are functional. On several occasions I couldn't tell what the hell I was looking at until I right-clicked. "Oh...that was a shield and sword! "
Looking at the video it does seem that they have "cleaned them up" a bit at least.
I asked before What have you heard anything about AI upgrades
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: SgtRock on July 21, 2013, 12:35:18 PM
There's a big difference between "retro style graphics" and I can't tell what the hell I'm looking at! Keeping the same graphics for three games now, is not the way to increase sales, do the developers even care?



Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on July 21, 2013, 01:32:13 PM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F4hPKL.gif&hash=e5650de2c5cbc74d9091a1f81caeaaebe1dce1ef)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on July 21, 2013, 01:37:36 PM
Quote from: SgtRock on July 21, 2013, 12:35:18 PM
There's a big difference between "retro style graphics" and I can't tell what the hell I'm looking at! Keeping the same graphics for three games now, is not the way to increase sales, do the developers even care?

**DISCLAIMER** This post is NOT intended as offensive or personal in any sense. I just don't get it and am seeking for a mature discussion. No namecalling, no hard feelings.

Its not a matter of caring. I am sure they care a lot about their (pretty much now) lifelong project. They lack the means (financially or otherwise) to make it into the next incarnation you would want.
What is up with all this emoting in this thread by some of you? That's what I meant with the pouting earlier.
Perhaps I am reading into things I should not, but phrases like:

"do the developers even care?"

"I mean seriously, you can't upgrade the graphics? Map looks a bit sharper but take a look at the tactical battle; I don't see a damned difference.
I know the graphics arent what makes the game great, but c'mon man"

"Yeah. If not upgrading the graphics, what's the point."

"They'll never get any bigger doing the same thing with the same graphics."

These sound either like emo stuff to me (disgruntled kiddy stuff), or assumptions which don't have to be valid by any stretch.
Why should a graphics upgrade (cause we're getting an update) be a gauge for how much they care about their game?
Why should graphics be the only reason to release a sequel?
Why do you think they even want to get any bigger?

From all I've read about the devs, they are just two guys having fun coding a game they wanted to code. That it also became very popular in certain groups was just a bonus.
We're not entitled to anything. They just make their new game and you play it if you like it, or don't if you do not.

Perhaps its the language barrier and I just read into things differently cause I am not english. In any case I just wanted to clarify my reasoning earlier and perhaps I will become all the more wiser in the end.
Not trying to be a douchebag.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: CptHowdy on July 21, 2013, 01:55:51 PM
so is this a glorified XPAC? is this stuff they wish they had put in Dom3 but didnt have time or the know how several years ago? modders have made upgraded graphic packs, can the developers not buy those and make em official? im sure some graphic artists would update their graphics for a small fee and a mention in the credits if asked. i keep seeing statements about how these guys have little to no money, where is this info coming from? i would bet they have made more money in the last 6 months with the game being heavily discounted than they did in the previous 5-6 years combined. choices are great and this game has so many combinations of factions, units, spells and items that you could never try them all so maybe the developers could poll the community and get rid of stuff that isnt used. i mean do we really need a bunch of spells that target one unit for 1-2 damage?? seems they have a lot of options that could decrease their workload without giving up control of their "baby"
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on July 21, 2013, 02:47:00 PM
Quote from: CptHowdy on July 21, 2013, 01:55:51 PM
modders have made upgraded graphic packs, can the developers not buy those and make em official? im sure some graphic artists would update their graphics for a small fee and a mention in the credits if asked.

These updates are all sprite based e.g. new armies or updated sprites for existing ones.
Exactly the sort of updates we now get in Dom 4.
The discussion rather was about a complete overhaul of the graphics to make them more detailed, higher res, even 3D, you name it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on July 21, 2013, 03:11:24 PM
Quote from: mikeck on July 20, 2013, 03:15:26 PM
I asked before What have you heard anything about AI upgrades

Mike,

I think I read that the AI no longer takes all sorts of trash scales when creating its Pretender and actually has a bit better at planning. As far as tactical ability, I haven't heard of significant changes in the overall AI other than some processing upgrades. I don't think it will be a huge jump forward, but perhaps a nice subtle improvement. I wouldn't say I was really great at beating the Dom3 or CoE AI...

One thing that might help is that the AI can be told to target the Thrones of Ascension victory locations, rather than tell it to do the Herculean task of conquering the entire map.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on July 21, 2013, 03:31:04 PM
Quote from: Yskonyn on July 21, 2013, 01:37:36 PM
Quote from: SgtRock on July 21, 2013, 12:35:18 PM
There's a big difference between "retro style graphics" and I can't tell what the hell I'm looking at! Keeping the same graphics for three games now, is not the way to increase sales, do the developers even care?

**DISCLAIMER** This post is NOT intended as offensive or personal in any sense. I just don't get it and am seeking for a mature discussion. No namecalling, no hard feelings.

Its not a matter of caring. I am sure they care a lot about their (pretty much now) lifelong project. They lack the means (financially or otherwise) to make it into the next incarnation you would want.
What is up with all this emoting in this thread by some of you? That's what I meant with the pouting earlier.
Perhaps I am reading into things I should not, but phrases like:

"do the developers even care?"

"I mean seriously, you can't upgrade the graphics? Map looks a bit sharper but take a look at the tactical battle; I don't see a damned difference.
I know the graphics arent what makes the game great, but c'mon man"

"Yeah. If not upgrading the graphics, what's the point."

"They'll never get any bigger doing the same thing with the same graphics."

These sound either like emo stuff to me (disgruntled kiddy stuff), or assumptions which don't have to be valid by any stretch.
Why should a graphics upgrade (cause we're getting an update) be a gauge for how much they care about their game?
Why should graphics be the only reason to release a sequel?
Why do you think they even want to get any bigger?

From all I've read about the devs, they are just two guys having fun coding a game they wanted to code. That it also became very popular in certain groups was just a bonus.
We're not entitled to anything. They just make their new game and you play it if you like it, or don't if you do not.

Perhaps its the language barrier and I just read into things differently cause I am not english. In any case I just wanted to clarify my reasoning earlier and perhaps I will become all the more wiser in the end.
Not trying to be a douchebag.



No douche-baggery so no worries

I agree with you to the extent that you cannot say they don't love the game b/c they won't upgrade the graphics. But I don't think it's unreasonable for me to be disappointed that there wasnt a graphical upgrade. I'm not suggesting that they owe anyone anything....just that im a bit confused. The fact that it is two guys shouldn't prohibit a graphics upgrade and the Dom 3 graphics were not even fully functional (I should be able to tell what the unit is without clicking on it)

Now, that said, it's their game and if they want old 1996 pixel guys then ok.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: LongBlade on July 21, 2013, 08:05:08 PM
Quote from: mikeck on July 18, 2013, 09:00:56 AM
Sorry, I disagree. It's not a graphics game and I get that. But I don't care how many guys are designing it, it's 2013 and I should be able to expect post 1999 graphics. I live the game, will buy it and appreciate the new features, but I don't see what's wrong with expecting a graphical upgrade for a game that already had extremely dated graphics.

I look at my pixel army and can't tell if someone is holding a sword and shield or a crossbow for Pete's sake

+1

I am sure that Dom3 would be a great game for me, but I cannot get past the horrid graphics. I don't need AAA title graphics, but if all the devs did was update the graphics and re-release the Dom 3 game, they'd be doing themselves a huge favor.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Arctic Blast on July 22, 2013, 12:06:01 AM
There are too many other tiny indie crews delivering solid visuals for this 'we're indie' excuse to really be valid anymore. At any rate, if they aren't delivering a bit of a graphics upgrade, they had better be delivering some very nice improvements elsewhere.

I also find it odd that they insisted when CoE 3 came out that there was no Dominions sequel in the works. Didn't that just come out a year ago?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: TheCommandTent on July 22, 2013, 07:32:53 AM
If they don't upgrade the graphics I hope they at least make the game accessible enough that some enterprising modder can improve them for us.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Maerlande on July 22, 2013, 08:52:34 AM
It's pretty reasonable to do some speculation on why this Dominions 4 is a fairly small upgrade in the series.

The history of the publishing is a huge factor.  Illwinter was under some punitive contract with Shrapnel games and for 6 years has refused to even speculate about Dominions 4.  Instead the put out CoE 3 with some new stuff and ideas and get it on steam..  Then quite fast, they finish the contract with Shrapnel, set up an all new home on Desura, start selling well, try to get Dom3 on Steam, set up a beta team, and make Dominions 4 in a tremendous rush.  From what the Beta folks can tell us Dominions 4 development started up 4-5 months ago.  That's a very short time frame and they have set release for August.

If I was Illwinter, I can see this making great sense.  Take advantage of the new excitement for Dominions and push out a decent but not massive sequel.  Talk to the fans a lot.  Be sure to include enough new features to excite the fans.  But don't overcommit.  Get it out, make some money, and then maybe we will see a bigger team.  KO is very active on Desura and Dom3mods about the development.  And his uber fanbois on the beta are pumping out tidbits everywhere :)

JK does all code.  KO does the art.  And KO is flat out doing new sprites.  Which IS a graphical upgrade.  They aren't doing a major engine upgrade and I can understand why given the time frame they have set.  Of course, they could have slowed down release, done a bigger engine upgrade.  I'm quite pleased with their decision.  It's good for the community to get much of the UI problems resolved.  And modding has been greatly improved. 

There are many more things I wished for, but I'm happy with what we are getting.  That video is terrible.  Try the two text previews.  http://thurot.com/2013/07/13/dominions-4/ (http://thurot.com/2013/07/13/dominions-4/)
http://www.matchstickeyes.com/2013/07/15/whats-new-in-dominions-4-thrones-of-ascension/ (http://www.matchstickeyes.com/2013/07/15/whats-new-in-dominions-4-thrones-of-ascension/)

Oh I see someone posted these already.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Boggit on July 24, 2013, 09:09:15 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 17, 2013, 09:44:34 PM
Yeah. If not upgrading the graphics, what's the point. Is a pretty damn good game otherwise.
+1
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on July 24, 2013, 10:45:16 PM
I'm guessing that if a Dominions 5 ever shows up with a new and somewhat fancy gfx engine, it'll probably be a very long time until it happens.

So it's nice to have this improved version coming, to tide us over.  :D
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: JasonPratt on July 29, 2013, 07:24:33 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 24, 2013, 10:45:16 PM
I'm guessing that if a Dominions 5 ever shows up with a new and somewhat fancy gfx engine, it'll probably be a very long time until it happens.

Or perhaps not a very long time: Dom4 is for all intents and purposes Dom3Gold, a paid feature-patch on the game (which is fair considering the entirely unpaid work they've done on patching the game since Dom3, and Dom2 for that matter.) They're in a position to profit seriously now that they're out from under Shrapnel's thumb, and might be able to afford to hire new graphic designers (and commission a larger score from the folk musicians, no reason to change them any just need more than three tunes. :) ) Dom5 could show up in two years with a UI and graphical overhaul, plus improvements to the things they're already trying.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Tpek on September 01, 2013, 10:13:33 AM
http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions

::)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on September 01, 2013, 11:19:54 AM
Quote from: Tpek on September 01, 2013, 10:13:33 AM
http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions

::)

That has been up for months, just FYI. He pushed back the release date (was supposed to be last week) to later in September. He did say that we might get beta access for preordering, just so people can start messing around with the unfinished game.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Tpek on September 01, 2013, 12:29:17 PM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on September 01, 2013, 11:19:54 AM
Quote from: Tpek on September 01, 2013, 10:13:33 AM
http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions

::)

That has been up for months, just FYI. He pushed back the release date (was supposed to be last week) to later in September. He did say that we might get beta access for preordering, just so people can start messing around with the unfinished game.

Sorry, didn't see this before, and Desura advertised it as new (for pre-order).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Tpek on September 02, 2013, 09:56:24 AM
The beta is now supposed to be available for download.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 02, 2013, 10:00:37 AM
Quote from: Tpek on September 02, 2013, 09:56:24 AM
The beta is now supposed to be available for download.

Confirmed.

Just started d/l'ing the "Preorder EXE Installer" from Desura.

If the release has been delayed, there are obviously some bugs left.  Hopefully nothing big, but it's always a good idea to release a beta version early for pre-orderers to spread out the testing to a wider group.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 02, 2013, 12:50:40 PM
There are definitely some notable changes in Dom4.  Aside from the new nations, spells, etc. 

One biggie is that damage type resistances were changed from percentages to a flat number.  So no more total immunity, I suppose.  Probably best for balance that way, although I would think thugs & super-combatants will now be easier to kill.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on September 02, 2013, 12:55:51 PM
Ohhh! We can have a sneak peek at Dom 4!
I will be able to download in a few hours. Excitement !

Eventhough resistances are now a flat number there are bound to be spells to increase that number. If they stack you can come pretty close to Immunity I would expect?

Does the beta come with the new manual yet?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 02, 2013, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Yskonyn on September 02, 2013, 12:55:51 PM

Does the beta come with the new manual yet?

It's not in the install folder.  I don't think it's out yet.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on September 02, 2013, 03:27:52 PM
Ok.. where do I find my gamekey? I didn't receive an email from Desura.
I can't find any purchase history on Desura's website either... :S

EDIT: Nevermind, I found a link in the original purchase confirmation email from Desura. Aparently there is a 'CD Keys' section in your account page on the website, but I can't find it without clicking on the link in that old email...
Desura would do well to make their website more intuitive.
Anyway.. I have found it and have started the beta.

BIG surprise number one! Caelum now are NORMAL sized beings and not the tiny people they used to be! This pretty much changes the complete playing field for the entire nation and I am excited to find out how many strategies will now be viable again because size isn't a problem anymore! :D

Caelum shall rise again!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on September 02, 2013, 04:28:27 PM
Quote from: Yskonyn on September 02, 2013, 03:27:52 PM
Desura would do well to make their website more intuitive.

Desura's website is shit, I agree.  It doesn't stop me buying from them but...damn.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 02, 2013, 05:38:23 PM
Quote from: Yskonyn on September 02, 2013, 03:27:52 PM
Ok.. where do I find my gamekey? I didn't receive an email from Desura.
I can't find any purchase history on Desura's website either... :S



I posted how to find your Key on Desura, in the comments section (as "nefariouskoel" IIRC), in case anyone else needs directions.

As for the changes in Dominions 4.. there look to be quite a few.  They may not look outwardly large, but a lot of the little game mechanic details have had additions or changes.  Looks to be a lot of rebalancing of stuff.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on September 02, 2013, 08:04:11 PM
I can't wait for this one too. September is a gaming shotgun blast...Rome, Dominions and Command! Whaaat!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 02, 2013, 08:24:20 PM
Quote from: mikeck on September 02, 2013, 08:04:11 PM
I can't wait for this one too. September is a gaming shotgun blast...Rome, Dominions and Command! Whaaat!

Umm.. you don't have to wait if you don't want to. 

The beta version of Dominions 4 was just released today on Desura.  That's what all the jive-talkin' is about in here, turkey.  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on September 03, 2013, 08:23:28 AM
One of the first and biggest things so far I've found is the abolishment of the tax system;

Here's a quote from the desura forums on the reasoning why:
QuoteI wonder if removing the control over taxes had less to do with micromanagement and more to due with 200% taxation being used in place of the pillage mechanics. Why pillage with an army, when you can simply set taxes to 200% and move on. The army is less vulnerable because it is moving (guess where it will go next), money is gained and the province is damaged. The only thing you don't get are the supplies, but at the same time you can raid more provinces.

On which Kris (one of the devs) responds:

QuoteA little of both. Tax 200 was as mcdjfp said a more effective way of pillaging a province, than the pillage order.
It was a strange mechanic, at least if you call it 200% tax.
If you take more than the surplus production, why limit yourself at 200% and not take everything.
How happy will people become if you don't take taxes for some months.
I had some ideas on longterm morale losses and loyalties, but dominions was not intended to be a game of national economics (although I would enjoy it).
So we did simplify the taxing with the intention that it would remove some (possibly fun) unaesthetic micromanagement options. I'm of the opinion that advanced mechanics doesn't serve a purpose in them selves.

I hope you do not find the new mechanic too dumbed down.

This, and of course Caelum now being a normal competitive nation now (in EA at least, haven't checked the other ages yet) and from what I gather the difference between the commander units is now more pronounced and result in a much clearer goal as what to do with them. I have little knowlegde of other nations, but as for Caelum is was not too clear what a given advantage of the one commander vs the other was at times.

Liking what I see so far!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 03, 2013, 08:50:09 AM
Some nations got much needed buffing. 

I also noticed that some of the new spells filled out holes in some of the types.  There are a number of new Nature spells that help fill it out better, for example.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on September 03, 2013, 09:42:55 AM
On the Desura forums there is a rather big discussion about the impact on Blood Hunting with the new tax system mechanic.
It'll be interesting to see how this will play out.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on September 04, 2013, 03:37:27 AM
 ::) How people are stuck in their own box...

I see a lot of complaining about new or changed features in the beta and how they have an impact on their tactics and playstyle. So what? Adapt! It's a new game which -from the looks of things- has made a pretty good stride at trying to get things more balanced. Yes, that will mean your favorite OP tactic will probably not work anymore.
And yes that will mean that you, with your insane knowledge of every number and modifier in the game, will not have such an advantage over hapless noobs anymore. Uncomfortable, isn't it?

/ rant off

One thing I know for sure; I will stay away from so called Balance mods for quite a while with Dom 4. Until people actually know the inner working of the game well instead of just making it into a Dom 3 CBM clone again.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: tgb on September 04, 2013, 04:04:10 AM
I finally dabbled in 3 enough (I was given a copy) to want to explore more, and like some of the changes I'm reading about.  Is this in good enough shape to play now, or do I need to wait until it spends a little more time in the oven?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on September 04, 2013, 04:20:15 AM
I haven't spent much time with the beta, but I'll go by a remark from Kris (one of the devs); the sprites are still riddled with missing ones and Dom 3 crap.

But gameplay-wise I think it's pretty well playable.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on September 04, 2013, 04:49:22 AM
Quote from: Yskonyn on September 04, 2013, 03:37:27 AM
One thing I know for sure; I will stay away from so called Balance mods for quite a while with Dom 4. Until people actually know the inner working of the game well instead of just making it into a Dom 3 CBM clone again.


Excellent point, Ysk.  Given the depth and complexity of the game, I wouldn't trust any so-called balance mods for months.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on September 04, 2013, 06:39:21 AM
I've been inspecting the contents of the Dom 4 with the excellent Mod Inspector site found here:

Mod Inspector (http://dom3-mod-inspector.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/index.html?page=item&selectmods=1)

Just choose Select Files in the last line under 'Local filesystem'. It can read .trs files.

There's an Evo 8 spell called 'Second Sun' which requires Fire 8 and 80 gems which is a global spell with the following discription:
"The caster creates a huge ball of fire in the sky. This Second Sun will always shine, day and night, resulting in severe effects across the entire world. Provinces will become hotter and drier every turn until the Second Sun is destroyed. This enchantment lasts until someone dispels it or the caster dies."

Pretty cool spell, but I would assume there would also be a cold equivalent, but I cannot seem to find it.
Do you guys know if there is one?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 04, 2013, 05:29:36 PM
Quote from: Yskonyn on September 04, 2013, 03:37:27 AM
::) How people are stuck in their own box...

I see a lot of complaining about new or changed features in the beta and how they have an impact on their tactics and playstyle. So what? Adapt! It's a new game which -from the looks of things- has made a pretty good stride at trying to get things more balanced. Yes, that will mean your favorite OP tactic will probably not work anymore.
And yes that will mean that you, with your insane knowledge of every number and modifier in the game, will not have such an advantage over hapless noobs anymore. Uncomfortable, isn't it?

/ rant off

One thing I know for sure; I will stay away from so called Balance mods for quite a while with Dom 4. Until people actually know the inner working of the game well instead of just making it into a Dom 3 CBM clone again.

I definitely agree with everything you pointed out.

Been completely avoiding checking out the Dom4 forum as the old die-hards, set in their ways, will certainly be complaining about any changes.  Thus far I like what I see.  There has been more work done on it than I originally expected from all the cries of it being 'just an upgrade'.  It looks like it'll be more a bit more balanced than Dom3, and the only people who could complain about that.. well, you already mentioned.

Also enjoying some of the new sprite art.  I enjoy this kind of 2D art when it's done well, not just blobs of varied colors, or a jumble of pixellation, as some self-labelled "old school" games provide.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Fetrik on September 04, 2013, 05:56:47 PM
I'm not into mp and all that, but i have no doubt i will pick this gem up some day. It's just that for the moment i don't feel like it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Boggit on September 04, 2013, 08:13:01 PM
I have and love Dom3, but I don't see enough meat on Dom4 to justify buying it, unless it's really cheap in a sale. I see both sides of the argument about graphics, although frankly the game would really benefit from an overhaul, as some have already said here. I imagine Dom4's best market are new players in this otherwise great game.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: JasonPratt on September 06, 2013, 07:41:25 AM
Second Sun sounds exactly the same (in its description) to the Second Sun spell from Dom3 (possibly earlier); the winter/cold match was called Illwinter(!) in Dom3, and given that's the name of their company I expect it's still the same, too. :)

Of course the actual mechanics of the spell(s) may have changed. But the description is the same. Someone threw it during Groghammer, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: tgb on September 06, 2013, 09:15:48 AM
As a new player who finally found the love thanks to a copy of 3 that was gifted me not long ago, I went ahead and purchased the beta, but haven't spent a lot of time with it yet.

A question about Desura - does it automatically update games the way Steam does, or do I have to manually apply any patches?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 06, 2013, 10:23:04 AM
Quote from: tgb on September 06, 2013, 09:15:48 AM


A question about Desura - does it automatically update games the way Steam does, or do I have to manually apply any patches?

If you use the Desura client for downloading your games, then each of your games with an available update on the list will show a circular arrow symbol.  Click on that symbol and you'll get a pop-up with patch notes and the 'Update' button. 

IIRC, I believe that's what it defaults to.  I may have changed my settings long ago and forgot.  I don't really like how every time I fire up the Steam client, it's downloading multiple patches for stuff I'm not playing at the moment.  So I may well have switched it to manual on the Desura client, if it has such an option.  I don't recall doing so, however. 

So yeah, just a button to click.  Unless you don't wanna use the client, then you can just download the installer file from your login in a web browser.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on September 06, 2013, 12:40:19 PM
Nefaro's right, and it does default to having you manually click the circular arrow.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on September 06, 2013, 12:49:09 PM
I could not get the beta to DL through the Desura client. Instead, I had to go to the Desura website, login, and DL from there.

The beta seems fun, although there is not a huge amount of change to the actual gameplay. The UI changes, however, may well be worth the $$, as everything is so much easier to understand and see.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: tgb on September 06, 2013, 01:03:19 PM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on September 06, 2013, 12:49:09 PM
I could not get the beta to DL through the Desura client. Instead, I had to go to the Desura website, login, and DL from there.


Same here.  When I tried to go through the client it seemed stuck on file verification.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 06, 2013, 10:09:43 PM
Hrmm.. maybe they only posted the Beta version as a downloadable installer?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Tpek on September 07, 2013, 05:07:41 AM
Isn't that the best way?
I hate using the Desura client.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on September 07, 2013, 05:50:49 AM
+1 ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on September 07, 2013, 10:46:05 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on September 06, 2013, 10:09:43 PM
Hrmm.. maybe they only posted the Beta version as a downloadable installer?

That is exactly what they did.

My beta impressions are mixed. Money seems to have been upped in Dom 4, so you can now afford massive defenses. Army sizes, however, are still limited by the amount of resources in a region, so it is incredibly hard to crack a well-defended castle. Moreover, you can now add supply and defense "modules" on to castles (Castle Gate, Supply Room, Underground Supply) that make it even harder to crack. I have yet to win a siege. There are lots of new items and some new spells, along with general tweaks to a lot of the sides. I get the feeling that the release delay is to work on balance and polish.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: PanzersEast on September 26, 2013, 08:11:47 PM
Anyone playing the beta?


PE
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 26, 2013, 08:53:02 PM
Quote from: PanzersEast on September 26, 2013, 08:11:47 PM
Anyone playing the beta?


PE

Does a hooker make money on her back?

Hells yes!

It's in good shape, I've only noticed a couple of the new factions missing the odd description and such.  They've been releasing new builds regularly and I'm quite happy with all the new changes. 

I think some of the factions are still weaker than others, but many things look to be more balanced than in Dom3.  That's the impression I get from digging through the spells & factions, anyway.  The new UI features are a big help in getting rid of the more repetitive and mundane stuff you had to do every turn. 

I believe the new release date was supposed to be the 28th now but no idea if it's still good to go.  I don't really care since they keep putting out new Beta builds and it's in great condition as-is.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: tgb on September 26, 2013, 09:27:55 PM
I've got the beta but haven't put a whole lot of time into it, since I didn't want to get burned out before release.  On the Desura product page latest release date is Oct. 5.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: PanzersEast on September 27, 2013, 12:05:55 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on September 26, 2013, 08:53:02 PM
Quote from: PanzersEast on September 26, 2013, 08:11:47 PM
Anyone playing the beta?


PE

Does a hooker make money on her back?

Hells yes!

It's in good shape, I've only noticed a couple of the new factions missing the odd description and such.  They've been releasing new builds regularly and I'm quite happy with all the new changes. 

I think some of the factions are still weaker than others, but many things look to be more balanced than in Dom3.  That's the impression I get from digging through the spells & factions, anyway.  The new UI features are a big help in getting rid of the more repetitive and mundane stuff you had to do every turn. 

I believe the new release date was supposed to be the 28th now but no idea if it's still good to go.  I don't really care since they keep putting out new Beta builds and it's in great condition as-is.

How are the improvements over 3?  I have looked at a couple of maps and they look great.... especially one that allows you to go underground....


PE
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on September 27, 2013, 09:44:20 AM
There's a ton of little changes.  One example is the elimination of % resistance values, replaced with straight-up flat numbers.  So no more 100% resistance to fire/poison/etc.  There are a lot of balancing changes like this, including new spells to fill in some weak spots for a certain type. 

The interface improvements are great.  All the way from starting a new game and creating your Pretender.  Just easier to use all-around.  The updated artwork looks noticeably better, more crisp and detailed.  I like it a lot. 

Some people portray Dom4 as "just an update" but it looks like nearly every facet of the game has been tweaked, had balancing done, and some new stuff added. 

Regarding maps:
I think the reason some of the maps look better is because there are more high-quality maps included in the release.  Looks to be quite a few hand drawn maps (or made with an external map creator program) that have been added, some of them recognizable as the better looking user-created ones originally made for Dom3.  There are also some that I've never seen, and that have their own unusual art style.  One of my big complaints about Dom3 was how flat the randomly generated map art looked, and while that is still mostly the case with Dom4 at least they've added a good number of pretty custom ones with a wide range of recommended player quantities.  Now we won't have to go searching the 'net for a good map to accommodate a large game with many players.


I'm quite happy with the $35 or $40 I spent on it, even in it's current beta stage.  It may need more tweaking regarding some balance here & there, but I certainly don't want to go back to Dom3 after having played Dom4.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on September 27, 2013, 12:45:58 PM
Thanks for the writeup Nef.  I'm sure I'll pick it up some time soon.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: PanzersEast on September 27, 2013, 12:54:06 PM
Thanks for the feedback... pretty easy sale for me.  I got into learning Dom3, however I will just move on to 4.


PE
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: PanzersEast on October 03, 2013, 07:48:33 AM
Have to say that even though I am still trying to learn (and there is a lot)..... the game imo is a lot better than Dom 3.  While the ui will not win awards, it is better stream lined and I can now actually make out what units are and the maps are very interesting.


PE
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on October 03, 2013, 10:26:27 AM
They put out beta "j" a few days ago, so if you were using "h" I'd suggest installing over it. 

I believe the official release was supposed to be this week or next but I don't really care since they're putting out a new beta version every week or two.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on October 03, 2013, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on September 27, 2013, 09:44:20 AM
There's a ton of little changes.  One example is the elimination of % resistance values, replaced with straight-up flat numbers.  So no more 100% resistance to fire/poison/etc.  There are a lot of balancing changes like this, including new spells to fill in some weak spots for a certain type. 

The interface improvements are great.  All the way from starting a new game and creating your Pretender.  Just easier to use all-around.  The updated artwork looks noticeably better, more crisp and detailed.  I like it a lot. 

Some people portray Dom4 as "just an update" but it looks like nearly every facet of the game has been tweaked, had balancing done, and some new stuff added. 

Regarding maps:
I think the reason some of the maps look better is because there are more high-quality maps included in the release.  Looks to be quite a few hand drawn maps (or made with an external map creator program) that have been added, some of them recognizable as the better looking user-created ones originally made for Dom3.  There are also some that I've never seen, and that have their own unusual art style.  One of my big complaints about Dom3 was how flat the randomly generated map art looked, and while that is still mostly the case with Dom4 at least they've added a good number of pretty custom ones with a wide range of recommended player quantities.  Now we won't have to go searching the 'net for a good map to accommodate a large game with many players.


I'm quite happy with the $35 or $40 I spent on it, even in it's current beta stage.  It may need more tweaking regarding some balance here & there, but I certainly don't want to go back to Dom3 after having played Dom4.

I totally agree. It may not be revolutionary, but the updates to the structure of the game are enough, IMHO, to easily justify the cost.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on October 03, 2013, 02:12:59 PM
How does one update the beta on Desura? Is there an option like Steam?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on October 03, 2013, 02:30:01 PM
Quote from: mikeck on October 03, 2013, 02:12:59 PM
How does one update the beta on Desura? Is there an option like Steam?

Normally you can use the program to grab updates, like you would with Steam (it is not automatic). But for Dom4 beta updates, you have to go to the Desura website and log-in, then go to the Dom4 page and download from the link provided.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on October 03, 2013, 05:01:00 PM
Quote from: mikeck on October 03, 2013, 02:12:59 PM
How does one update the beta on Desura? Is there an option like Steam?


It is as SOM stated.. normally you can use the Desura client but I think they've been releasing beta versions so quickly they've only put up the DRM-less installer for d/l on the website.

So..

1) Log in to the Desura site. 

2) Click your login name's link, next to where it says (logout).

3) Click the "Games" tab link.  It's on the same row as Summary, Comments, Review, etc..  This will take you to a page with links to all the games you own on Desura.

4) Click on "Dominions 4" and it'll take you to the game page.  On the right is the link to the installer download.  (Full EXE Installer v3.99j).  Download and install it!


That's how I normally get to my owned game list, on Desura's website, to download my installers.  You can also just do a search in the search box, for the title or browse the full game catalog for it.  The games' main pages also contain the installer download links if you're logged in.

Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on October 03, 2013, 10:05:20 PM
Ok, thanks
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on October 04, 2013, 11:46:27 AM
Actually, in my okay list, I moved the mouse over the "ready" under "status". It popped up that an update to 3.99j was available...gave me an option to update so I did. Easy
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Arctic Blast on October 04, 2013, 08:40:35 PM
The devs of the series were the guests this week on the Three Moves Ahead podcast : https://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on October 05, 2013, 01:55:22 AM
Cool, I'm gonna have to have a listen to that.  Thanks Arctic!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on October 05, 2013, 12:38:42 PM
Anyone know when the dom 4 manual will be available for download? Or is it coming with the actual game release?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on October 05, 2013, 01:52:16 PM
Quote from: mikeck on October 05, 2013, 12:38:42 PM
Anyone know when the dom 4 manual will be available for download? Or is it coming with the actual game release?

I would love to know this. Because I have no idea what the "undying" bonus for death magic does.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on October 05, 2013, 04:19:17 PM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on October 05, 2013, 01:52:16 PM
Quote from: mikeck on October 05, 2013, 12:38:42 PM
Anyone know when the dom 4 manual will be available for download? Or is it coming with the actual game release?

I would love to know this. Because I have no idea what the "undying" bonus for death magic does.

I was wondering that myself, the other day, along with a couple other things.  Web searches didn't bring anything immdediately definitive.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on October 05, 2013, 07:25:39 PM
Something about living past their hitpoint threshold (like "extra HP") then dying at the end of battle is all I could come up with on that.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on October 05, 2013, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on October 05, 2013, 07:25:39 PM
Something about living past their hitpoint threshold (like "extra HP") then dying at the end of battle is all I could come up with on that.

Oh.. I see.  It's obviously something to do with extra hit points and/or delayed death.

So I'd guess that Undead troops get this extra temporary HP bonus.  If their HP drops even with this addition, they still die, but if it's in between the original and the new total then they don't die until the battle is done?

Does that mean that the bonus HP given for Nature magic only works for non-undead & demons (and it's permanent)?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: son_of_montfort on October 06, 2013, 12:13:57 AM
I don't know anything specific. Some forum posters claimed that the Undying bless worked on any holy unit, effectively giving them extra HP and then making them die at the end of the battle if it goes past that threshold unless they are undead, who survive even if they lose all normal HP and go into "undying" HP.

Seems a bit unwieldy and also makes a Death bless strategy a bit less desirable unless you can field a decent amount of undead sacred forces.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on October 08, 2013, 04:08:55 AM
Manual is done (though not available as a seperate download), release due Oct 10th!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on October 08, 2013, 11:14:35 AM
I wish they would release the damn manual...as a seperate PDF!!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: PanzersEast on October 08, 2013, 11:34:14 AM
Quote from: mikeck on October 08, 2013, 11:14:35 AM
I wish they would release the damn manual...as a seperate PDF!!

Ditto!


PE
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on October 08, 2013, 12:24:17 PM
I thought it a bit odd that they'd remove the last beta version for the three days before official release.  ???

Luckily I already have the final beta version if I felt like firing it up between now & then.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on October 08, 2013, 12:40:07 PM
According to the remarks by Illwinter, this was a mistake. Aparently Desura deletes old versions once the release version is being submitted. Illwinter didn't expect it either.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on October 08, 2013, 01:16:54 PM
So of I already bought and installed the beta...can I play it now? Or does Desura remove it from your playlist???!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on October 08, 2013, 01:44:47 PM
I never used the Desura client. So you don't need that to play. Just browse to its location on your harddisk if it doesnt show in the client anymore.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on October 08, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
May have to search around. I didn't pay attention to where it was installed
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on October 09, 2013, 07:14:55 PM
The manual is now available on the Ilwinter site !
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Jarhead0331 on October 09, 2013, 07:24:46 PM
Is this going to be released on Steam?  I see it on GG, but not steam...

EDIT: Looks like no.

To buy on GG or not to buy at all...that is the question.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: tgb on October 09, 2013, 07:38:18 PM
The game is released, but apparently as of right now can only be downloaded and installed through the Desura client.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on October 10, 2013, 04:37:31 AM
Yes the direct download link returns a 'not found' error.
Illwinter has contacted Desura and aparently it will be fixed soon(tm).
At least you can already get the manuals from the illwinter website. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: PanzersEast on October 10, 2013, 08:22:07 AM
I highly recommend Dom 4..... for those who could not get into 3 or was overwhelmed with all the information, 4 has streamed lined the UI and now has hover information that saves you a ton of time.  There is still a learning process, however it is much shorter this time around.


PE
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: CptHowdy on October 10, 2013, 02:16:44 PM
just purchased! now just need to save some money for the new x-com expansion and x rebirth which are releasing in November. that flashpoint campaigns is looking tempting but I just bought cmano as well  :'(   all these great games and not enough money or time!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on October 10, 2013, 03:04:48 PM
Great guys!
Join us over at the Looking for Opponents forum!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: SgtRock on October 10, 2013, 03:12:55 PM
Quote from: mikeck on October 09, 2013, 07:14:55 PM
The manual is now available on the Ilwinter site !

The manual does a nice job of explaining everything but, still not seeing much new, other than the (Thrones of Ascensions). Seems like little more than an update to Dom 3, too much been there done that for me.






Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on October 10, 2013, 04:08:29 PM
I haven't even followed it closely, and I'm aware of:

No taxes
Thrones of ascension
Disciples for proper team play (this is a MAJOR change)

Seems like a significant update to me.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on October 10, 2013, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 10, 2013, 04:08:29 PM
I haven't even followed it closely, and I'm aware of:

No taxes
Thrones of ascension
Disciples for proper team play (this is a MAJOR change)

Seems like a significant update to me.


You'll see a lot more little changes and additions as you play, too.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on October 11, 2013, 02:49:43 AM
With the new gameplay option added and the huge overhaul on balance I'd say this is a pretty hefty update.
But yes, it's the same game as Dom 3 at the core, sure.
Lot of changes are not very aparent, though.

If you have the feeling that Dom 4 is 'been there done that with Dom 3' then I cannot blame you. It basically is! But if you're a fan of the gameplay and are a long term player, then Dom 4 is the definitive version of the game, I'd say.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Fetrik on October 15, 2013, 09:59:39 AM
Haven't bought the game yet due to not feeling like playing atm. I assume i will pick it up at a sale. But i'm gonna miss the Skavens from Dom3 and i never got to try out tomb Kings. :/
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on October 15, 2013, 12:41:57 PM
Well I assume Dom 3 still works, eventhough Dom 4 has been released. Nothing is stopping you from getting your 100% complete list completed! ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Fetrik on October 15, 2013, 01:00:16 PM
Quote from: Yskonyn on October 15, 2013, 12:41:57 PM
Well I assume Dom 3 still works, eventhough Dom 4 has been released. Nothing is stopping you from getting your 100% complete list completed! ;)
But that game is OLD! I want something new. Yes that is a hint to all the modders now hop to it... :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on October 16, 2013, 05:33:43 PM
Rock Paper Shotgun have reported the release (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/10/16/the-complex-god-dominions-4/).  Adam will be posting a Wot I Think soon.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on March 10, 2014, 11:19:23 AM
Sorry for Necro-ing this thread, but the MP forum seems a little deserted at times.
How are we in our spirits regarding Dominions 4 multiplayer, gents?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on March 10, 2014, 03:33:46 PM
My recently long video gaming hiatus prevented me from playing it, along with many others.  I'm gingerly wading back into a few but it's still been curtailed so I probably won't get back to it for awhile.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on April 25, 2014, 02:12:06 PM
I'm ready to fire this puppy up as AoW3 and FE aren't doing it for me.
Do any of you guys know where I can get a list of nations with their abilities and such along with all the spells/buffs/ items?

I thought I had a PDF for those for dom 3 but can't find it. I have the manual and can't seem to find these.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Yskonyn on April 25, 2014, 03:30:32 PM
Perhaps you have the older version of the manual. That one was divided into 3 documents.
Go to www.illwinter.com/dom4 to download the latest manual. It has the grimoire and spell database included.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: mikeck on April 25, 2014, 03:54:14 PM
Ha ha yes I did. thank you
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on April 25, 2014, 10:57:26 PM
Quote from: mikeck on April 25, 2014, 02:12:06 PM
I'm ready to fire this puppy up as AoW3 and FE aren't doing it for me.
Do any of you guys know where I can get a list of nations with their abilities and such along with all the spells/buffs/ items?

I thought I had a PDF for those for dom 3 but can't find it. I have the manual and can't seem to find these.

I believe there are a number of "Let's Play"s on the 'Tube for Dom4.  Some of which are very descriptive of the game setup & mechanics.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: DennisS on June 26, 2014, 03:54:46 PM
Just picked this up yesterday, in the Steam sale. I have 2 and 3, and I just had to pull the trigger.

I must say, even though many of the features are VERY similar to Dominions 3, this is a pretty damned good game. I had semi-forgotten what a deep, DEEP strategy game this was.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 26, 2014, 06:15:12 PM
Yeah, I join a game every now and then and I'm never, ever prepared for how much thought has to go into every single decision you make.  Just planning your magic strategy alone can be exhausting.

Fantastic game...it requires quite an investment but the rewards are huge.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: DennisS on June 26, 2014, 06:52:53 PM
Quote from: Huw the Poo on June 26, 2014, 06:15:12 PM
Yeah, I join a game every now and then and I'm never, ever prepared for how much thought has to go into every single decision you make.  Just planning your magic strategy alone can be exhausting.

Fantastic game...it requires quite an investment but the rewards are huge.

I read most much of the 395 page manual today. Cover me...I'm goin' in!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 27, 2014, 02:08:24 AM
Good luck!  Ask any questions you might have here and I'll do my best to answer them.  I'm more or less still a noob myself but there are also others around here who know more than I do.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: DennisS on June 27, 2014, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Huw the Poo on June 27, 2014, 02:08:24 AM
Good luck!  Ask any questions you might have here and I'll do my best to answer them.  I'm more or less still a noob myself but there are also others around here who know more than I do.

Small random map, late age, low magic humans.

I was doing well until my Alpha stack got smushed...On the defensive ever since. I was just too aggressive, too soon, and I didn't see his reinforcements soon enough.

It's been tough to build up a respectable force since then..I am going around collecting the troops from a number of other provinces to make a concerted attack on the single AI's provinces. He outnumbers me about 2:1 in troops, so I gotta be smart. I just cannot afford to lose another big battle.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on June 27, 2014, 01:48:44 PM
Scouts, scouts, scouts.

Maybe not in such large quantities on small maps, but they're essential if you wanna know what's going on behind the enemy's front line.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: DennisS on June 27, 2014, 02:37:05 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on June 27, 2014, 01:48:44 PM
Scouts, scouts, scouts.

Maybe not in such large quantities on small maps, but they're essential if you wanna know what's going on behind the enemy's front line.

Oh yeah. An extra scout or two would have saved my bacon here. Also, I sent a crap lot of cavalry right into the teeth of pike and spears.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: TacticalWargames on June 28, 2014, 09:38:52 AM
I'm OK with the graphics. Being sprites they are easy to mod. Granted some upgrade would have been great but I'm not worried about Total War style graphics as the gameplay is enough..and come on what happened to using our imaginations. I think thats what made PC gaming so good back in the 8bit days. Your imagination did the rest..and your imagination is always going to be better than what a PC can churn out:)

If it was a choice between dedicating development time and money to graphics over new features\gameplay I'd go for new features every time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: Nefaro on November 22, 2014, 01:58:03 PM
I see Dominions 4 has been updated again this month.  Once more adding extra content.

Two new factions - Xibalba and Nazca.

And a bunch of other changes, fixes, and small additions.

update notes>
http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/news/dominions-414


I haven't even checked out that last one or two factions added in other recent updates.

Title: Re: Dominions 4 video...huh??
Post by: TacticalWargames on November 22, 2014, 02:13:09 PM
Great game..loads of gameplay\depth.