Shadow Empire

[solops]

I am on turn 410 right now. Things change a bit when everything is built up as much as you dare. I am still figuring out how the developed world works.

[spelk]

Spelk, it's good to see you again.  I've been wondering what your user name means for all these years, and I'd hate to think of a chance of never getting to ask you.  Is it a rural Danish breakfast cereal?  A shortened version of your last name?  A byproduct in the wheat-threshing process?

It's kind of an in-joke based on a (North Eastern - geordie/mackem) British slang word for a splinter.
https://wikidiff.com/spelk/splinter

If someone was very thin, you'd say "theres not a pickin' on them, they're like a bloody spelk". A spelk being a thin sliver of debris (usually wood) under the skin.

I embraced the name, when playing the original EverQuest game for my Ogre Shaman (who was very fat). The thinly veiled "joke" being that the Ogre was VERY fat, yet he was called "Spelk".  In order to think of it as being amusing, I guess you had to be from a region of Britain who uses that slang anyway. At the time I thought it was a rather poor "joke", but quite a catchy moniker. So it sort of stuck with me. I am however, not thin at all. Nor am I a shaman.  ::)

[Geezer]

Thanks for that writeup Lotti.

[airboy]

The game has an incredible detailed reporting system. It takes many game-sessions going through all of them, and together they offer a rich view of the internal workings of the game. You get reports on all the skills used by your leaders, where you can be amazed that your top scientist is practising survival training in his spare time. You can also read that the commander of your strategic headquarter sold some of your stocks on his own accord to pay for the salaries, so maybe next time the market is bad and your people don't get paid. Etc.

Amen to this.  The private sector economy also operates without your control to do all sorts of things from building factories, schools and police stations - to brothels and museums.

[W8taminute]

The push system is the basis, and the one originally implemented.

The pull system adds so called pull points, which are all known demands for logistics. This creates a subsystem of the logistic flow that is reserved. You can manually remove any or all of the pull-destinations: assets, units or zones.

You can also manually add pull points, or block part of the stream with traffic lights.

The result is a system that can work without micromanagement in many cases, but when it distributes shortages not to your liking, you have several tools to steer it. I am quite far into a game with these new rules and I didn't need any fine-tuning, but I started to manipulate to be able to do more strategic transfers.

The game has an incredible detailed reporting system. It takes many game-sessions going through all of them, and together they offer a rich view of the internal workings of the game. You get reports on all the skills used by your leaders, where you can be amazed that your top scientist is practising survival training in his spare time. You can also read that the commander of your strategic headquarter sold some of your stocks on his own accord to pay for the salaries, so maybe next time the market is bad and your people don't get paid. Etc.

So it sounds like the base push system is still there but now there are options to include control over who can pull supply and get priority?

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

The push system is the basis, and the one originally implemented.

The pull system adds so called pull points, which are all known demands for logistics. This creates a subsystem of the logistic flow that is reserved. You can manually remove any or all of the pull-destinations: assets, units or zones.

You can also manually add pull points, or block part of the stream with traffic lights.

The result is a system that can work without micromanagement in many cases, but when it distributes shortages not to your liking, you have several tools to steer it. I am quite far into a game with these new rules and I didn't need any fine-tuning, but I started to manipulate to be able to do more strategic transfers.

The game has an incredible detailed reporting system. It takes many game-sessions going through all of them, and together they offer a rich view of the internal workings of the game. You get reports on all the skills used by your leaders, where you can be amazed that your top scientist is practising survival training in his spare time. You can also read that the commander of your strategic headquarter sold some of your stocks on his own accord to pay for the salaries, so maybe next time the market is bad and your people don't get paid. Etc.

So it sounds like the base push system is still there but now there are options to include control over who can pull supply and get priority?

In the old system you had to actively steer your logistics towards the places it was needed. In the new system this is automated for the basic needs, and you only have to fine-tune for your dynamic use, like sending reinforcements, increasing front sizes, strategic moves etc. Of course you still have to build the infrastructure.

After you conquer a city, there can be temporary strain on your network, if you need to support the population after the devastation. Or all the people start running away run away :-) But Vic nerved this effect by making food transports very light on your network. Initially it needed your transport capacity.

[W8taminute]

^Thanks for the explanation.  Sounds interesting and I will definitely have to revisit this game and try out the new system. 

[Geezer]

Speaking of logistics, I found this helpful tutorial:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gDXsQsmkLg

[FarAway Sooner]

Spelk, you've now added to my knowledge of obscure slang in one tiny region where my native language is spoken.  I learn something on these forums every day!   ;D

OK, I'm now a few more turns into the "pushing my offensive to the end of my logistics chain" phenomenon, and I realize, I have no idea what I'm doing.  Even after reading the manual sections a bunch of times, playing around with the interface, and watching Das' video on the topic. 

I feel like I need to go back, take notes, and then maybe pass a Quiz on the topic at  the end.  You know, sort of like the quizzes at the end of all those HR videos we get to watch at work every year?

[solops]

OK, I'm now a few more turns into the "pushing my offensive to the end of my logistics chain" phenomenon, and I realize, I have no idea what I'm doing.  Even after reading the manual sections a bunch of times, playing around with the interface, and watching Das' video on the topic. 

I feel like I need to go back, take notes, and then maybe pass a Quiz on the topic at  the end.  You know, sort of like the quizzes at the end of all those HR videos we get to watch at work every year?

I think you just need to play. I have read, watched and asked questions until I am exhausted and I still have no clue how some of this works. The best bet for me has been to play and suffer and then figure your way out in hopes that someday someone will answer some of your questions coherently. You will learn a lot. The game is very forgiving on the Normal setting, so mistakes are not fatal. You can learn how to make things work, but not necessarily why.

One thing that really begs explanation is how truck and train transport points from one city are handled as they carry things into a city and through to another or to the front. I found that bypasses DO seem to make a difference, which raises some questions. And if you have storage facilities built in a city other than the SHQ city how do they travel ( or DO they travel to) the SHQ or directly to the front or factory that needs them.Tthe routing is important in planning the net. The whole supply/resource transportation system needs some clarification.

[Geezer]

I'm about 10 turns into my first game.  Can't figure out Industry Points.  All the numbers are 0 when I mouse over the icon in the tab on the left side of the screen, yet I am still getting some points each turn.  Fun so far in spite of not really understanding much of the details.  And as we know, the devil is in the details.

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

Production of everything is done within a zone. Each zone has its own buffer stocks, and and first tries to handle everything with the resources within the zone. The zone requests resources that it doesn't have but needs from the SHQ, and it sends it surplus to the SHQ (Strategic Headquarter).

You can see a detailed balance and update sheet per zone in the Management -> Assets screen when you activate the extension button. Look for red and yellow numbers to see what is not functioning optimal. If you click such a number, it filters the assets that are affected.

The side panel in the Map view with resources are the stocks of the SHQ. The SHQ sends these to units, to zones and it uses them in international trade.

With all those panels you can trace exactly where what is being produced, what are the penalties, etc. The Manage Assets screen is one of my goto places each turn to spot possible new crises before they really hit you.

When you do have bottlenecks, you can mothball, or run an non-vital asset at 25%, 50% or 75% of capacity, to free up some workers or energy and have your critical assets work at full capacity despite global shortages. That way you can repair your bottlenecks more quickly. But when everything runs smooth, you don't have to micromanage anything here.

[FarAway Sooner]

Yeah.  The "0" number you see is not your current turn's industry production for that zone, but your current balance after you've used all the points available this turn.  You burn industry points doing things like trying to create new buildings, raise new units, build roads, etc.  If you mouse over the 0, it'll give you a high level breakdown.  Like Lotti says, you can get a lot more info from the Management->Assets screen.

When it comes to production, there seems to be a basic hierarchy of things:  Survival needs come first (food and water), then metal, then industry, then fuel.  Certain planetary settings change the way you move up those curves (e.g., water is a BIG deal if you're on a desert planet), but that's the basic scheme.

SE has a much more robust "civil administration" function than most 4x games (the original Civilization game just contented itself with "keep your citizens happy").  It includes things like research and development, policy initiatives, training your troops, supplying your troops logistically, etc.  All that stuff comes later (although the basic research & discovery piece gets relevant pretty early on too).

[Geezer]

Attached is a screenshot of my Assets screen extended.  I still can't figure out where the 66 Industrial Points are being created as none of my buildings show that symbol on them.  Not too worried about all of it at this point as I do need to RTFM and just play more turns to get a feel for the game.

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

Attached is a screenshot of my Assets screen extended.  I still can't figure out where the 66 Industrial Points are being created as none of my buildings show that symbol on them.  Not too worried about all of it at this point as I do need to RTFM and just play more turns to get a feel for the game.

I looked at that screen in my game for a little outback zone without industry. When I mouse over the prod number, which is 56 in my case, the tooltip tells me that this comes from the Service Tax. That is, it is produced by the private sector.

It is the production that can bootstrap your single zone start city.