*What The Hell Am I Doing
I've never played B-17: The Mighty 8th before. Always wanted it. Found it on Steam for cheap today and on GOG for a dollar cheaper, but being the Steam whore I am, I went ahead and grabbed it. My wife's not happy, but oh well, seven bucks dammit. At least it wasn't $20 or $50. :)
Instead of getting myself wrapped up in another labor-intensive AAR with so many other things going on, I think I'm going to try my hand at doing a video-based AAR. After watching a few Let's Play videos of this game, I think that would be the best way to convey the sights, sounds, and intensity of the game itself, and will also mean little work on my part other than converting it from AVI to another format (which I can do in Premiere Pro on my work laptop, so no biggie at all) before I load it to a private channel on YouTube and then share it in this thread.
I didn't want to stomp all over PanzersEast's glory as he's doing a B-17 Queen of the Skies AAR, so I asked and received his blessing to do this.
I'm going to use FRAPS. I tested it tonight (I've never taken videos of games before) using BroForce as a test bed. Got my Microsoft LifeChat headset to work, finally (those that were playing the Warlock MP game with me know I was struggling to get the damn thing to work, with no luck), at least in BroForce, and took some short videos. Problem is, the videos got a little choppy. I think that might be due to my PC being older, and probably also because I had about ten tabs in Chrome open (including several YouTube videos), so that was probably sucking up the memory.
Anyway, on to scene 24, etcetera.
PE requested the Bombadier's position. I believe you can rename crew in this game as I saw someone had changed a name in his Let's Play game, so I will be able to rename the crewmembers accordingly. After those LP videos, I was able to get a feel for how the game flows. I believe there's two modes - squadron command and bomber command. He played squadron command. I'm going to try bomber command instead. I know it's not as deep but hey we're only worried about one bomber and I don't really want to mess with the higher-level stuff right now (no idea if that's even a factor in the bomber command version).
So, here's what I think we have, position-wise:
Bombadier..................Lt PanzersEast
Navigator...................Lt SDR
Pilot..........................Capt Banzai_Cat
Co-pilot.....................Lt JasonPratt
Engineer....................M/Sgt Barthheart
Radio Op...................Sgt bob48
Right Waist Gunner.....Sgt undercovergeek
Left Waist Gunner.......Sgt Nefaro
Ball Turret Gunner.......Sgt Staggerwing
Tail Gunner................Sgt Shelldrake
I'm going to remain in the captain's seat, but I have NO intention of flying this beast in-game; I will hopefully get a decent pilot so I can ignore this and let the computer handle the taking off, flying/maintaining formation, and landing. I intend to be the 'spirit' of the plane's crew and inhabit positions that might need attention. I think I can do that, at any rate.
I thought about shanghai'ing you boys from the B-29 thread, but that's another box of marbles. I inquired with MD about possibly getting Hell Over Korea as a review copy so I can try that as an AAR, which should have a lot more action in it. Meanwhile, I'll leave this one open to whomever wants a position. First come, first served.
Disclaimer: I hope I can get this to work right. As I said I've never done a video capture but it seems simple enough so the first few might suck quality-wise until I figure things out.
If you want to join up, speak up below. If you're too late after the crew fills up, I think this game is sufficiently bloody enough that we likely will not return home in one piece, so speak up also and you'll be in the replacement pool.
One final note: the frigging manual is 147 pages long (old time gaming goodness at its best), so while you guys decide if you want to join/what position you want (heh-heh...he said 'position'), I'mma going to read this bloody thing and hopefully make heads or tails so that we have a better chance of living.
Enjoy!
What would our interactive roles be as crewmembers?
I used to play the crap out of B-17 when it first came out. Flying is not too hard. Navigating is HARD!
I'll be the navigator.
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 07, 2014, 07:31:05 PM
What would our interactive roles be as crewmembers?
The game, I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong, if there's B-17 vets out there like PE and SDR), has rankings for each crew member, which governs how good they are at certain things. I think everyone has the same categories of stats (Piloting, Gunnery, Nav, etc.), and obviously waist gunners are going to be poor Pilots but better gunners than Pilots. I think, anyway.
You'd have to do nothing other than watch the video, pretty much like the B-29 AAR I started some time ago.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on November 07, 2014, 07:31:30 PM
I used to play the crap out of B-17 when it first came out. Flying is not too hard. Navigating is HARD!
I'll be the navigator.
Done!
I'm going to be playing without a joystick, so avoiding the pilot's seat is probably best for all aboard. ;)
The busiest crew member will be the engineer. He not only has to man a gun, but he's constantly hopping around dealing with damage control when things go bad.
It's been years since I even looked at the game but at the time, the flak effects were awesome!
Yeah, that Let's Play video REALLY impressed me. The graphics are a bit dated but damn, it really rendered some things well, and the sounds were immersive as well.
I'll be Ball Turret Gunner as long as you promise no belly landings- the ball turret wasn't retractable on the seventeen!
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 07, 2014, 07:48:14 PM
I'll be Ball Turret Gunner as long as you promise no belly landings- the ball turret wasn't retractable on the seventeen!
Done!
Here's hoping this doesn't turn into a bad ending of a certain Amazing Stories show...
http://vimeo.com/56670088
Right waist gunner for me
Quote from: undercovergeek on November 07, 2014, 08:15:54 PM
Right waist gunner for me
All yours!
Good news: I gave B-17 a spin and tried to figure out the basic takeoff tutorial. Struggled at first trying to figure out why it wouldn't release brakes and let me taxi, then realized I hadn't set it to manual mode (d'oh). Finally got the damn thing to taxi. Got FRAPS to record but it was choppy, so I'm going to have to fiddle with the settings/my PC. Might need to reboot it to start fresh and see how that works. Like I said, she's an old one but she is still chuggin' along.
This is something I've forgotten about older games - they're very fiddly when it comes to controls and require a lot of key memorization, unlike games today that are very intuitive (for the most part). In the heat of battle 30,000 feet above France or Germany, I can't do with a hunt-and-peck style of play...I'm going to have to play a mission or two to get a feel for it, otherwise we're doomed.
Doomed I tells ya!
You have my co-piloting skills.
AND MY CHAINSAW!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wargamer.com%2Fforums%2Fsmiley%2F00000055.gif&hash=1f92b1b23845ba1d2c1c4a2439c66e4e6d6f825a)
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 07, 2014, 10:52:04 PM
You have my co-piloting skills.
AND MY CHAINSAW!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wargamer.com%2Fforums%2Fsmiley%2F00000055.gif&hash=1f92b1b23845ba1d2c1c4a2439c66e4e6d6f825a)
Done! You have it.
I've got to go waste most of my Saturday now hauling my wife's car to the dealership, so here's hoping it will not take long and not cost a lot of money.
Tell them you have an armed and crewed B-17 and the dealership's GPS coordinates. I'm sure the bill will be quite reasonable after that. ;)
Incidentally, I did indeed rename at least one character back when I was playing the somewhat buggy mess of that game: I always made sure the pilot was my granduncle John Reed (youngest B-17 pilot in Britain, maybe even the war). O:-)
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 08, 2014, 08:30:56 AM
Tell them you have an armed and crewed B-17 and the dealership's GPS coordinates. I'm sure the bill will be quite reasonable after that. ;)
Lol...you're assuming they know what a B-17 is in the first place. :))
JP, that's pretty cool. How old was he?
Okay, I set up a Bomber Command scenario to play through it, and holy crap was it intense. Crew passing out left and right - including at one point BOTH the pilot and co-pilot. What a moment that was dropping into the pilot's compartment to see both of them hunched over.
The radio operator was busy as hell running back and forth healing people, as was the flight engineer. I kept thinking we'd all be a mess and rotate home from wounds, but apparently only the co-pilot had wounds serious enough to put him in the hospital and off the plane. I guess the rest of us just got flesh wounds.
The B-17 itself was shot to hell. The port wing was Swiss cheese but the engines were still going. We didn't lose any bombers, though one was trailing smoke from the #2 engine.
Our navigator got us lost several times, but he was rated 'Average' in navigation. One thing appealing about the Squadron Commander path as opposed to Bomber Commander is, I can cull all the best crew from the squadron and put them in one bomber, so we all are good at our jobs (or at least Above Average). I might go that route because I don't want a plane that resembles a slaughterhouse next time. Also will have control over target selections, which will make things more interesting. I think I'll do some more reading first.
Meanwhile we have four spots still open. I figure we have some blokes that'll play, so bring 'em in. I figure I'll have this down by tonight and will try to record the first mission tomorrow.
I don't remember now; we should have recorded more of what he said before he died -- or anything really, but he didn't like to talk about it much. Super terrifying. He got in late (though he finished one and a half tours I think), so he was there when the Germans started using 262s and other jet/rocket planes. He didn't think he ever had to worry about the actual "rocket" planes (the ones with rockets instead of jets which didn't land well, and were designed to shotgun bombers with smaller rockets by flying under them with a photostatic sensor), but the 262s were murder: just about completely invulnerable to bomber guns. The only good news was to be invulnerable they had to fly so fast they couldn't aim well, and the pilots weren't experienced anymore being too young. Plus at that speed they ran out of fuel and so broke off a lot earlier.
He said he had to lie about his age to sign up, so fifteen or sixteen? (Course, other kids got in that way, but he was the youngest one to apply for pilot and pass his testing.) I have a poem written by his sister at work; it was read at his funeral, though he got to hear it because she wrote it a few years earlier -- she wanted him to be able to hear it before he died. Maybe she says there.
Always cool to hear first hand stories. Thanks JP.
BC if you still need one I can be engineer for ya.
Quote from: Barthheart on November 09, 2014, 09:49:10 PM
BC if you still need one I can be engineer for ya.
All yours, Barth!
I need three more before I can begin. I figure mirth and bawb are good for it. I'll send some PMs out.
I'll take whatever.
Maybe a Waste Gunner?
Because I'll be wastin' nine yards at a time! :P
Thanks, Nefaro and Shelldrake, for helping to round out the roster.
One more spot. I have a PM out to possible parties, so whomever answers next will get the coveted Radio Operator position.
This position is no joke...you'll probably be up a LOT patching up crew and putting out fires.
i think that was either mine or bobs post on the B29 - im sure hed be up for some
Alright, Imma put bawb into the radio operator's seat.
Anyone else wants some, please do speak up. Would love to have a few slabs of meat ready to fill in the inevitable casualties. >:D
I did experiment with the game this weekend by starting a Bomber Command campaign and noticed a few things.
(1) The naming convention isn't conducive to single-name characters. Since most of us are one name, and it would be weird to split them up (e.g. last name, first, such as Cat, Banzai), I thought it would be funny to make everyone's last name 'Johnson' (referencing the movie Blazing Saddles). Johnson, BanzaiCat; Johnson, Staggerwing; Johnson, Mirth, etc.
(2) This game is indeed amazing for such an old title. 'Our' B-17 got shot to hell by flak; our port wing was full of friggin' holes that you could see through. Crew kept passing out from injuries. I think I already mentioned how horrific it was that I jumped into the pilot's compartment to see both pilot and co-pilot collapsed and unconscious. I figured we were dead for sure, but we landed no problem and only had one crewman that had to go to hospital.
(3) I will have no idea what I'm doing. I did try to jump in and use guns but can't figure out the control scheme. The game manual references using a joystick to aim and fire, but doesn't mention keyboard commands, and the mouse doesn't work for this. So I thought I'd just jump in and out of different positions during the missions and watch/comment.
(4) I will name the bomber The ExPUNdables, in honor of a really good name that didn't quite make the cut in my B-29 thread. If anyone has a better name suggestion (or ANY name suggestion for that matter), please don't hesitate to post.
(5) I'll do some time skipping but will not do time speed-up. I noticed whenever I sped up time that important messages would flash and then disappear immediately. Hopefully this will keep video lengths down to 30 or so minutes. I can always use the magic of video editing to fix that, too.
Thanks, all. I think I'll start the videos in a fresh thread when I'm ready to move forward, which might be tonight. I just need uninterrupted time while recording and in my house, that's a very difficult thing to get. I might have to wait until later in the evening.
I'm in if you still need someone!
If you name the crate the ExPUNables I'll cut the O2 to everyone on board and save the world some pain.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on November 10, 2014, 01:49:06 PM
If you name the crate the ExPUNables I'll cut the O2 to everyone on board and save the world some pain.
Then come up with a suggestion!
Quote from: Jarhead0331
I'm in if you still need someone!
I'll definitely need replacements I think, JH! The crew is full so we're good for now, but just you wait...
The Expundables is a great name!
Die Hippy!
How about calling it 'The Pun Lover' in honor of the Steve McQueen movie?
SDR, I hate to break it to you, but with this lot, there's going to be some punnery involved with the bomber's name. :)
^Its a tradition, or an old charter or something.
To be fair, historically a lot of bombers used pun names.
Incidentally, Granduncle John's bomber didn't; I don't know who came up with the name, but she was called "Slightly Dangerous". 8)
http://www.angelfire.com/ne2/b17sunriseserenade/452ndnames.html (http://www.angelfire.com/ne2/b17sunriseserenade/452ndnames.html)
http://www.fightingcolors.com/custompagestuff/custompage.htm (http://www.fightingcolors.com/custompagestuff/custompage.htm)
One of those birds in the list, "The Four Freedoms", makes me wish I could name a bomber "The Fifth Freedom" after the Tom Clancy game series "Splinter Cell". After all, the bomber is given the 5th Freedom (i.e. the freedom to kick the asses of anyone threatening the first four freedoms. 8) )
...though I just realized mostly bombers kicked the asses of civilian workers (and often their families) supplying (or enslaved by) those who have already taken away some or all of the 4 freedoms. :-[ :'( So, yeah, never mind.
KICK ASS would be a good name for a bomber...surely B-17 The Mighty 8th has a donkey insignia somewhere...I cannot recall, I'll have to check.
First mission done. Boring as hell but the flak was pretty vicious. I'll get the video uploaded at some point today once I figure the best settings for publication.
Well alrighty then. FRAPS created a 43GB video file that I can't get to my work laptop for editing. I'm going to have to try to download a free video converting program to see if I can greatly reduce that file size.
I missed the FRAPS option to split the video every 4GB. Had I done that I could have moved it over in chunks. I might need to redo this video/mission again.
EDIT: Yeah, guys...sorry. I'm going to have to redo it. My hard drive on this PC is only 500GB and it's already mostly full. I just don't have wiggle room to play with video files this large on this computer. On my work laptop, no problem. On this...hmm. I do have Steam on my work laptop so maybe I'll be pulling some Mighty 8th missions on it instead of on this PC.
Just a delay, gents. I think I have a plan now. Sorry about this but I'll get to it soon.
Nope, nothing going right this morning. Steam won't connect on my work laptop and it's done it plenty of times before with no issues. Today for some reason it refuses to do it, so I can't download B17 to it and can't test it out there. Will have to wait until I get to the office tomorrow morning and see what the problem is. I thought it might be the proxy but I've tried several things and it just won't cooperate today.
Looks like it was the proxy on my work laptop. I was able to download B-17 on it here, and got FRAPS here as well, so I'll be testing it out tonight. Hopefully I can get a mission in finally.
Sounds like Steam was giving you more problems than ze German flak. :o
Yeah, well, I think it's more the network connection on this laptop than anything else. Also it might be trying to block Steam, which technically shouldn't be on here. However I only intend to play it offline...now that it's loaded up and FRAPS is on here, I don't need to connect it to the Internet except to upload the final video to YouTube.
This will probably be trial and error in both play and production as we proceed, so hopefully it is a good show.
Strangely, I've tried this first mission twice now. The first time I was just testing everything, and the target was Brest. We got hammered by German fighters and flak both, putting lots of holes in the plane. But every one of them made it back to England.
In the second mission (the one I recorded but was 43GB in size), absolutely no German fighters came up to meet us; only flak, and it was very effective. It knocked out 'my' Pilot and the Navigator as well, but strangely only the pilot was considered wounded and out for a few days to recover. When the Navigator (SDR) got hit, I jumped to that compartment and saw him sitting there with his head on his desk and a big hole in the viewport in front of him. I would have sworn he'd be dead.
Anyway, I'll test it tonight to be sure everything works and maybe move forward tonight or tomorrow as long as there's no more issues.
I remember the crew-damage model for this game being... schizophrenic? Something like that.
Also, manual navigation was broken; don't know if that's been patched. Loved looking out the windows trying to get fixes though.
Good news. Late last night I tweaked my work laptop to the point of finally letting me record a game of B-17. It works well and FRAPS records at a high frame rate, so it should be good.
I won't have time to do a full mission until later this week, though.
FWIW...
On some missions, incoming fighters seem to collide with bombers all the time. On one mission into Germany, only three bombers survived as the rest fell to catastrophic air collisions. You MAY want to consider turning "collisions off". Normally, I would NEVER do such a thing in any sim game I play, but considering the results of the fighter AI, I find this "unrealistic" setting actually provides for what is probably a more historical experience.
@JasonPratt...I tend to spend most of the game in navigator position as well, except for the few tense moments when I am under fighter attack, or on the bomb run (obviously still my favorite).
Quote from: Jack Nastyface on November 18, 2014, 11:53:26 AM
FWIW...
On some missions, incoming fighters seem to collide with bombers all the time. On one mission into Germany, only three bombers survived as the rest fell to catastrophic air collisions. You MAY want to consider turning "collisions off".
I thought about that and saw some Let's Play videos where 109s did exactly this, taking out a bomber. I read somewhere that the AI-controlled Germans might do this if they're damaged and pull a Kamikaze on purpose. That doesn't seem something that German pilots would do.
However, I think I'm going to keep that option on. I might change my mind after I think on it some more, so thanks for bringing that up.
I'm intending to put everyone on high initiative, but that's something that works kind of wonky in the game. I advanced time and got a message that someone was bleeding, and went into the nose and saw the bombardier sitting on the floor slumped over while the radio operator was sitting in his bombardier's seat. The navigator and the radio operator were ignoring him studiously. I thought high initiative would mean they'd help their fellows out with first aid, but apparently not.
Oh well. I intended to be the 'spirit' of this bomber and just jump around to observe but to not take direct control of anything. For one, it seems more of a immersive experience. For another, more practical reason, I don't have a joystick or controller to control these guys with. I've already tried doing the machine guns on manual and can't figure out how to move or fire them, so I will have to do a bit more research.
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 17, 2014, 03:31:25 PM
Also, manual navigation was broken; don't know if that's been patched. Loved looking out the windows trying to get fixes though.
I was concerned about being able to easily do that in Rise Of Flight full real servers but it turned out being fairly easy with that one. Probably more difficult in these older sims where the terrain is less defined.
Dunno if this one featured the nav dome of the B-17 and other such stuff to go by. I'd be surprised if it did.