Matrix just put up a teaser on Facebook of what seems to be Starship Troopers. Well it's just a video of a flying bug. But people got excited.
Twitch announcement 2 Dec 6PM GMT.
Do you wanna live forever?
Sounds like Bugs to me.
Will we get Skinnies?
I hope the game is better than the movie.
I hope the game has Denise Richards and Dina Meyer! :dreamer:
Can someone post a link to the teaser? I don't use facebook myself so I have no access to the teaser. Regardless, some kind of wargame set kn the Starship Troopers universe could be a lot of fun!
Quote from: Rayfer on November 25, 2019, 06:11:40 PM
I hope the game is better than the movie.
Are you serious? The first movie was awesome.
Funny this announcement should come now. Was recently going through my old cd game collection and came across the ST rts game, which was actually quite good...
Paul Verhoeven was genius before his time in the way he could shape fascist worlds.
The CGI hasn't aged well but still a fun movie that was robbed by lack of power suits.
One of my favorite movies.
It's so much fun to watch.
Quote from: jamus34 on November 25, 2019, 09:38:33 PM
Paul Verhoeven was genius before his time in the way he could shape fascist worlds.
The CGI hasn't aged well but still a fun movie that was robbed by lack of power suits.
I liked Roughnecks- the animation series. It was pretty good as far as how it dealt with the Bugs and the Skinnies.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 25, 2019, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on November 25, 2019, 06:11:40 PM
I hope the game is better than the movie.
Are you serious? The first movie was awesome.
LOL....actually, yes. I thought it was a ridiculous, poorly acted train-wreck ranking right down there with the first Dune movie with Sting. But who knows, maybe it will make for a compelling game.
But it had Denise Richards (back when she was great looking) and a top-less Dina Meyer!
And I, for one, kinda liked the first Dune movie. It was interesting and did some things better than the mini-series (and it's mini-series-sequel).
Quote from: Rayfer on November 26, 2019, 07:53:27 AM
LOL....actually, yes. I thought it was a ridiculous, poorly acted train-wreck...
I don't understand, you're just listing all the reasons why it is the greatest piece of entertainment in history.
Admittedly, I started off going, "what the hell!?!" when I saw the movie but time and "wisdom," has shifted my POV to where I kinda/sorta get where the director was coming from so I can enjoy the movie moreso nowadays.
That aside, a nifty computer game based upon the Troopers' milieu could be pretty sweet. Reminds me, I've got a copy of the Avalon Hill game somewhere...
Quote from: Rayfer on November 26, 2019, 07:53:27 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 25, 2019, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on November 25, 2019, 06:11:40 PM
I hope the game is better than the movie.
Are you serious? The first movie was awesome.
LOL....actually, yes. I thought it was a ridiculous, poorly acted train-wreck ranking right down there with the first Dune movie with Sting. But who knows, maybe it will make for a compelling game.
What were you expecting? The Godfather? Casablanca? It sounds like your expectations were way too high.
I would love to be able to control the ships as well...they were cool. I like the movie but some actors were really not that great.
To come back on topic somewhat, while I'd be very interested in a strategy Starship Troopers game, I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea of "Order of Battle but Starship Troopers" as a concept.
That's not to say that's what Artistocrats is going to be making, but they're a smaller studio who've only really made OOB in recent years. It's a valid question as to whether they're able to make any other kind of game.
Personally I'd love an XCOM game but Starship Troopers. At most, perhaps something like Age of Wonders: Planetfall, but with a space/strategic layer.
And topless women... I mean, Troopers with adjustable... battle gear. ::)
Quote from: CJReich46 on November 25, 2019, 10:09:04 PM
Quote from: jamus34 on November 25, 2019, 09:38:33 PM
Paul Verhoeven was genius before his time in the way he could shape fascist worlds.
The CGI hasn't aged well but still a fun movie that was robbed by lack of power suits.
I liked Roughnecks- the animation series. It was pretty good as far as how it dealt with the Bugs and the Skinnies.
Same; I generally like it better than the film. It still incorporates some of the satire from the film, but takes the tactical and strategic situations more seriously. It's kind of hard not to appreciate a series that starts with an episode picking up the plot of THE WAGES OF DEATH and porting it into sci-fi power-suit giant bug action!
I have only seen Starship Troopers once back when it was released and barely remember it, but this thread is topless historical cinema comedy gold.
I'm still waiting for those gender neutral showers and the blasé attitude. O0
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 26, 2019, 11:53:49 AM
Quote from: CJReich46 on November 25, 2019, 10:09:04 PM
Quote from: jamus34 on November 25, 2019, 09:38:33 PM
Paul Verhoeven was genius before his time in the way he could shape fascist worlds.
The CGI hasn't aged well but still a fun movie that was robbed by lack of power suits.
I liked Roughnecks- the animation series. It was pretty good as far as how it dealt with the Bugs and the Skinnies.
Same; I generally like it better than the film. It still incorporates some of the satire from the film, but takes the tactical and strategic situations more seriously. It's kind of hard not to appreciate a series that starts with an episode picking up the plot of THE WAGES OF DEATH and porting it into sci-fi power-suit giant bug action!
I remember watching it as far as when Rico was promoted to LT, and the Queen Bugs invaded Earth. The series never finished the story though sad to say. I wouldn't mind seeing something like the Avalon Hill game (Sadly never played. But heard amazing things about it.) I think Julian Gollop was influenced by it and SPI's "City Fight" when he made Laser Squad and later X-Com/UFO.
https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup
Game (RTS) announcement is live.
Looks like the game is called Starship Troopers: Terran Command. The little teaser they showed looked cool.
https://www.slitherine.com/game/starship-troopers-terran-command
Power armor, baby!!!
"Technical Difficulties..."
Haha!
Could be fantastic. Could utterly suck. Hopefully, there is a fairly detailed strategic and unit management layer. Units should gain experience and veterancy and level up over time.
Quote from: Rayfer on November 26, 2019, 07:53:27 AM
LOL....actually, yes. I thought it was a ridiculous, poorly acted train-wreck ranking right down there with the first Dune movie with Sting. But who knows, maybe it will make for a compelling game.
That was sort of the entire point of the film. Paul Veerhoven was being as brutally insulting to the source material as he possibly could, and turning it into a self aware satire.
Veerhoven initially threw the script in the trash when he got it, but his wife convinced him to take the film up and utterly eviscerate Heinlein on screen, betting the studio would be too dumb to even get what he was doing. She was right.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 02, 2019, 01:29:12 PM
Units should gain experience and veterancy and level up over time.
Leaders will do this, according to the dev website.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on December 02, 2019, 02:28:12 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 02, 2019, 01:29:12 PM
Units should gain experience and veterancy and level up over time.
Leaders will do this, according to the dev website.
It would be disappointing if this mechanic is limited to leaders. Since mobile infantry units will be heavily outnumbered, they are extremely valuable to begin with. Granting them bonuses and perks due to experience will drastically add to their value and the loss of a particularly experienced unit could be devastating...I remember the good old days with Ground Control. You really got attached to those unique squads.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 02, 2019, 02:39:56 PM
It would be disappointing if this mechanic is limited to leaders. Since mobile infantry units will be heavily outnumbered, they are extremely valuable to begin with. Granting them bonuses and perks due to experience will drastically add to their value and the loss of a particularly experienced unit could be devastating...I remember the good old days with Ground Control. You really got attached to those unique squads.
Well, my guess is the leaders will do just that. It says that you attach them to units.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on December 02, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on November 26, 2019, 07:53:27 AM
LOL....actually, yes. I thought it was a ridiculous, poorly acted train-wreck ranking right down there with the first Dune movie with Sting. But who knows, maybe it will make for a compelling game.
That was sort of the entire point of the film. Paul Veerhoven was being as brutally insulting to the source material as he possibly could, and turning it into a self aware satire.
Veerhoven initially threw the script in the trash when he got it, but his wife convinced him to take the film up and utterly eviscerate Heinlein on screen, betting the studio would be too dumb to even get what he was doing. She was right.
Very interesting, I was totally unaware of any of that about the movie.
Quote from: Rayfer on December 02, 2019, 04:36:41 PM
Very interesting, I was totally unaware of any of that about the movie.
It's sometimes something easily missed with Verhoeven as he plays a lot of his movies very straight. Starship Troopers is to his anti-military and anti-fascist ideals as Robocop is to his anti-capitalist ideals. He demonstrates absurdity with straight laced absurdity.
There are a lot of little touches Verhoeven put in Starship Troopers that you can miss, like how he lifts camera and shot construction from Triumph of the Will, to how a lot of the dialogue is reworked from statements by Goebbles and Speer, to the very intentional use of Italian Fascist and Nazi uniforming to inspire the look of the Mobile Infantry.
He also did a lot of work to make sure the cast was as ridiculously beautiful and Aryan as possible, regardless of acting ability.
Verhoeven speaks for himself here, "If I tell the world that a right-wing, fascist way of doing things doesn't work, no one will listen to me. So I'm going to make a perfect fascist world: everyone is beautiful, everything is shiny, everything has big guns and fancy ships, but it's only good for killing fu***** Bugs!"
Quote from: SirAndrewD on December 02, 2019, 04:58:25 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on December 02, 2019, 04:36:41 PM
Very interesting, I was totally unaware of any of that about the movie.
It's sometimes something easily missed with Verhoeven as he plays a lot of his movies very straight. Starship Troopers is to his anti-military and anti-fascist ideals as Robocop is to his anti-capitalist ideals. He demonstrates absurdity with straight laced absurdity.
There are a lot of little touches Verhoeven put in Starship Troopers that you can miss, like how he lifts camera and shot construction from Triumph of the Will, to how a lot of the dialogue is reworked from statements by Goebbles and Speer, to the very intentional use of Italian Fascist and Nazi uniforming to inspire the look of the Mobile Infantry.
He also did a lot of work to make sure the cast was as ridiculously beautiful and Aryan as possible, regardless of acting ability.
Verhoeven speaks for himself here, "If I tell the world that a right-wing, fascist way of doing things doesn't work, no one will listen to me. So I'm going to make a perfect fascist world: everyone is beautiful, everything is shiny, everything has big guns and fancy ships, but it's only good for killing fu***** Bugs!"
LOL....you got me wanting to watch the movie again. I'll have to search Netflix and Amazon to see if they have it.
You know, I always thought the book was satire too, but in researching the issue now, I see it didn't appear to be Heinlein's intention.
"Congrats, son! Mobile Infantry made me into the man I am today..." Says the recruiting Sergeant with no legs and prosthetic arm.
Yeah, the book isn't satire. Heinlein waffled a lot on what he was trying to say in the book, and had denied it was actively pro-fascist, but it is advocating for military governance.
There's been a lot of fighting over the book in scholarship. Most outsiders consider it equating fascism and utopianism, but there's some counter argument that it's more advocating for the concept of selective service enhancing the franchise.
Either way, it should be read literally, not tongue in cheek.
Recently I realized that the footage they briefly show of "massacred civilians" at the Mormon colony (or whatever it was) early in the film is intentionally cheesy and fake looking, like they spattered a bunch of mannequins with ketchup, because the scene is part of propaganda the Federation is showing on their network to get people to join up. The SFX in the other death scenes are cheesy too, but this scene really stood out upon rewatching the film for the umpteenth time as being *extraordinarily* cheesy. Makes me think it was some kinda false flag type of thing the Federation cooked up to get more recruits. Cool little detail.
I didn't realize he did both Starship Troopers and RoboCop. I love RoboCop.
Yeah, the false flag thing is another small easily missed detail.
It's not that the Mormons were fake. There's a throwaway line that they had actually intruded on bug space first, despite warning. So they were actually the invaders.
The thing you're supposed to sorta miss and not miss is how impossible it was to fly an Asteroid across the galaxy to hit Earth. That was meant to be so absurd as to get you thinking, "what evidence do we really have that the bugs did that?" There's a strong implication that it's a false flag and it's another point where Verhoeven is trying to make you think.
He's a pretty subversive director in not spelling things out. For instance, he constructed Total Recall in such a way that it's entirely valid reading that the entire movie is the dream he paid for, including the end where it fades to white, not black, which is a directorial trick for someone waking up.
Yeah I think you're right, it's not that the Mormons were fake, but the footage they show of "dead civilians" looks like it's hoaxed/overblown to get people joining up.
Oh indeed. The propaganda aspect is a big deal.
I love the movie when it's taken for what it is, just like I love Robocop and Total Recall in the same way.
I'm less keen on his other satire, Showgirls. There's a point where he goes a bit too far and turns out a stinker in every way, and boy was that movie it. Exaggerating things to the point of intentional comedy worked with violence and politics, but not sex and drama.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on December 02, 2019, 04:58:25 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on December 02, 2019, 04:36:41 PM
Very interesting, I was totally unaware of any of that about the movie.
It's sometimes something easily missed with Verhoeven as he plays a lot of his movies very straight. Starship Troopers is to his anti-military and anti-fascist ideals as Robocop is to his anti-capitalist ideals. He demonstrates absurdity with straight laced absurdity.
There are a lot of little touches Verhoeven put in Starship Troopers that you can miss, like how he lifts camera and shot construction from Triumph of the Will, to how a lot of the dialogue is reworked from statements by Goebbles and Speer, to the very intentional use of Italian Fascist and Nazi uniforming to inspire the look of the Mobile Infantry.
He also did a lot of work to make sure the cast was as ridiculously beautiful and Aryan as possible, regardless of acting ability.
Verhoeven speaks for himself here, "If I tell the world that a right-wing, fascist way of doing things doesn't work, no one will listen to me. So I'm going to make a perfect fascist world: everyone is beautiful, everything is shiny, everything has big guns and fancy ships, but it's only good for killing fu***** Bugs!"
Then I suspect this may not have worked out as Verhoeven intended...........
The bugs he created were not insignificant little bugs but huge, terrible, scary, aggressors that were trying to destroy humanity. The mobile infantry were heroes that sacrificed all to save everything good. Since they were able to defeat those huge monsters, against all odds, it is obvious the mobile infantry and the political system that supported them could surely do many additional great, noble things (not that they needed to do more. They were already heroic enough).
He created the heroic mobile infantry which has enough of a following that all these years later a PC game is going to add to and expand their legacy and tell the story for yet another generation. I wonder if Verhoeven was intellectually honest enough to consider the possibility that the movie did not accomplish what he intended and maybe did just a little of the opposite?
Interesting, ironic and a little funny.
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on December 02, 2019, 06:26:54 PMaggressors that were trying to destroy humanity.
I think you need to rewatch the movie my dude, it's pretty clearly hinted that the humans were the aggressors and the bugs were retaliating. Then again, based on the rest of your post, it sounds to me like you would prefer the book over the movie.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 02, 2019, 06:33:42 PM
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on December 02, 2019, 06:26:54 PMaggressors that were trying to destroy humanity.
I think you need to rewatch the movie my dude, it's pretty clearly hinted that the humans were the aggressors and the bugs were retaliating. Then again, based on the rest of your post, it sounds to me like you would prefer the book over the movie.
Thanks. I never read the book. I'll put it on my list. Did you like the book?
I admit I was cheering for humanity during the movie.
Yeah that was a very odd reflection on the film. The mobile infantry were hardly heroes - witness their flagrant disregard for life in general for example (knife in the hand just to make a point, anyone?). Add to that the fact that to be a citizen you're kind of expected to serve, and it's almost a requirement just to be able to have a baby.
My money is also on intelligent - and successful - satire, just as Robocop was.
MOS if you never read it, that also precludes you from reading it in the future. Take it off your list :P
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on December 02, 2019, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: al_infierno on December 02, 2019, 06:33:42 PM
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on December 02, 2019, 06:26:54 PMaggressors that were trying to destroy humanity.
I think you need to rewatch the movie my dude, it's pretty clearly hinted that the humans were the aggressors and the bugs were retaliating. Then again, based on the rest of your post, it sounds to me like you would prefer the book over the movie.
Thanks. I never read the book. I'll put it on my list. Did you like the book?
I admit I was cheering for humanity during the movie.
Hell, I still cheer for humanity every time I watch it ;) I'm not saying you're wrong for liking them, the Mobile Infantry are fuckin badass and I'll lap up any chance to play them in a game. I just think it's missing the point a bit to take their propaganda claims at face value is all.
I love the book, I think it's a SF classic. Later editions are a bit long-winded due to Heinlein adding back in some political speeches that editors cut out of the initial publishings. In the same genre, I personally like
Forever War by Joe Haldeman a bit better because it's shorter, and it has the awesome themes of time dilation and the allegory of vietnam vets returning to a home that's completely different than what they left -- except in space, and with hundreds of years passing.
It has been a long time since I saw the movie. It didn't make a big impression since the special effects etc were not that great as I recall. So I was probably wrong about the bugs I guess? Learn something everyday. Maybe I'll have watch it again and refresh my memory.
I was surprised to read that Verhoeven was anti-military since I thought (as I can remember) it was a military movie that showed the military fighting the good fight. Then the ironic part was the following and now a PC game. The PC game doesn't look anti-military from what I can tell. So I don't think he accomplished his goal.
Is the book not good to read? Just never bothered since I saw the movie (many years ago).
Honestly, I got to watch the movie a few months after 9.11, and the parallel was sort of striking.
To think of it, the plot similarities are uncanny to the point it is scary, from the shock of the asteroid strike all the way to the end battle in the cave system... My young mind was left with quite an impression then, and still is, now that we know how the story IRL unraveled itself.
The book is a good and short read. It's a lot more politics than action, most of it is spent in a classroom and it's mostly a debate on civilian vs military rule, but it's an interesting book.
Verhoeven absolutely wanted to make the humans exciting, square jawed prototypical heroes, fighting what you're told is an evil genocidal race. He wanted to paint what he saw as bad guys as good guys, sometimes not obviously. Essentially, he wanted to troll people that read the movie as a straight, heroic action film.
Some quotes from him on it..
"It's an idiotic story: young people go to fight bugs. So I felt the human characters should have a comic-book look. Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon auditioned, but I was looking for the prototype of blond, white and arrogant, and Casper Van Dien was so close to the images I remembered from Leni Riefenstahl's films. I borrowed from Triumph of the Will in the parody propaganda reel that opens the film, too. I was using Riefenstahl to point out, or so I thought, that these heroes and heroines were straight out of Nazi propaganda. No one saw it at the time. I don't know whether or not the actors realised – we never discussed it. I thought Neil Patrick Harris arriving on the set in an SS uniform might clear it up."
"Here are your heroes and your heroines, but by the way – they're fascists."
Quote from: SirAndrewD on December 02, 2019, 07:10:19 PM
The book is a good and short read. It's a lot more politics than action, most of it is spent in a classroom and it's mostly a debate on civilian vs military rule, but it's an interesting book.
Verhoeven absolutely wanted to make the humans exciting, square jawed prototypical heroes, fighting what you're told is an evil genocidal race. He wanted to paint what he saw as bad guys as good guys, sometimes not obviously. Essentially, he wanted to troll people that read the movie as a straight, heroic action film.
Some quotes from him on it..
"It's an idiotic story: young people go to fight bugs. So I felt the human characters should have a comic-book look. Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon auditioned, but I was looking for the prototype of blond, white and arrogant, and Casper Van Dien was so close to the images I remembered from Leni Riefenstahl's films. I borrowed from Triumph of the Will in the parody propaganda reel that opens the film, too. I was using Riefenstahl to point out, or so I thought, that these heroes and heroines were straight out of Nazi propaganda. No one saw it at the time. I don't know whether or not the actors realised – we never discussed it. I thought Neil Patrick Harris arriving on the set in an SS uniform might clear it up."
"Here are your heroes and your heroines, but by the way – they're fascists."
Thanks. Interesting stuff. I had no idea about this part of the book & movie.
You guys are reaaaally reading into all this, rightfully or not. In my view, it's just a damn fun action movie about humans fighting aliens from outer space. Reading too much into it and the statement or message the creator might have been trying to make takes away some of the enjoyment at a certain point. Drawing parallels with current affairs and history is cool for the sake of discussion, but not at the risk of detracting from the film, games, IP , etc. The ultimate goal is to enjoy the medium, even if intended to also cause thought and reflection.
JH I respectfully disagree -- I love Starship Troopers as a fun action movie and simultaneously love dissecting the layers/details that the director included to subtly hint at an underlying theme that isn't outright stated. There's certainly a point of over-thinking it that can reduce the discussion to absurdity, but I don't think the discussion here falls into that category yet. Starship Troopers a genuinely well-layered movie that can also still be enjoyed for what it is on the surface.
Yeah, I enjoy all the readings of it. I think adding layers makes it more fun.
Same with Robocop and Total Recall.
The exception I take with readings on it is that it's just a "bad" movie. I absolutely don't think it is in any way.
I look forward to a game on it, especially if they go a but satirical nuts with it, but I'll take it straight too.
I read "Starship Troopers" probably twice, the most recently in 1975 or so. I would classify it as juvenile science fiction. However, I liked it then, and still would recommend it as light reading. It did win the Hugo award soon after publication, so it isn't a bad book. I don't recall it being fascistic. Heinlein was clearly arguing that the voting franchise be earned by a period of service to society. He was also arguing against some of the lack of discipline he was seeing in US society in the 1950's. If I recall, the society he invented did not require military service: any service would do, and that anyone who wanted to serve could, and thereby gain the franchise. Nor did he argue that people who didn't serve had fewer rights (except the right to vote and hold public office). Because of this, I don't think of the society he created was fascistic. Certainly, his other books show no sympathy to fascism, and his experience in the US military as a naval officer in the 1930's, while likely giving him a favorable opinion of military service, would have been unlikely to have given him a favorable opinion of fascism.
Edit: Apparenlty, Heinlein considered himself a libertarian.
Interesting Factoid: Heinlein apparently was one of the sources of inspiration behind the USN's Combat Information Center (CIC) concept.
His ideas were used by his USNA classmate. RADM Cal Laning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_information_center)
Back to regular programming
Looks ok. But I wonder whether putting the infantry in power armour like I think the books had them in would have been better?
Also unless the game takes the animated series into account, the units you can use will be minimal.
Also I hear their is no multiplayer?
The Music in starship troopers, the movie, was always one of my favourite scores.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roughnecks:_Starship_Troopers_Chronicles#Earth_forces
In the show, there are various technologies used by SICON and the Skinnes:
Starships - Small city-like vessel that troopers consider their home-away-from home. They are equipped with hyperspace drives, subspace communicators, missiles, lasers and ballistics, including sensors that can detect movement of other crafts in other systems.
Dropship - A small type of ship that can drop and pickup troopers on planets. They are equipped with guns at the cockpit.
Marauder - A mecha-like exoskeleton that stands 10 ft. tall and walks faster than a human. Marauders are piloted by a single soldier and offer more firepower and augmented physical strength, at the cost of a limited power supply. There are two kinds, the "Duck" and the "Ape."
Morita Smart Rifle - The standard issue weapon for all SICON troopers. Capable of fully automatic or single-round fire.
Shock Stick - A staff weapon capable of delivering a powerful, usually non-lethal electric shock. Many troopers carry shock sticks as a back-up weapon for their rifles.
Fighter - A small, short-ranged craft armed with missiles and machine guns used primarily for air-to-air combat to provide cover for ground troops. Crewed by one or two people. Capable of operating in space or planetary atmosphere.
Bomber - Similar to the fighter, but with explosive payloads instead of weapons. Used to destroy large groups of ground-based enemies or enemy strongholds.
Troop Transport - A six-wheeled transport used by troopers.
Flatbed - This is only shown on Pluto. It is in the remains of an older station on Pluto from before Operation Pest Control.
Drop suit - A heavily armored suit that is capable of keeping the occupant alive while being dropped to a planet's surface from orbit.
Skimmer - A hovering transport, this is capable of going on both water and land and was even shown to have flight abilities. Having no personal offensive capabilities, it relies on personnel to fire from the open deck of the ship.
Jet ski/Raft - A single-person transport used in water.
WASP flier - A one-manned flying unit that is capable of low level flight. Razak attempts to strap two others to it, but it is unable to hold the weight.
Submersible - Similar to the troop transport, but for under water instead of over land.
Power Suit - Standard-issue armor for S.I.C.O.N. soldiers. Has an air-tight seal, a self-contained air recycling system, radio, and flotation device. M.I. troopers (as opposed to fleet pilots) also have jet-packs for short flights and a flip-down visor with zoom, thermal imaging, and assisted-targeting.
Grappling gun - Also known as Lizard Lines. These guns fire drills with lines attached to them, and are capable of carrying great amounts of weight. Two are capable of carrying a Marauder and two power suited soldiers.
Rocket Launcher - Packing more firepower than the rifles, the shoulder-mounted rocket launchers have a five-rocket magazine, each capable of destroying man-sized targets while injuring or destroying enemies close to the primary target. Rockets can be substituted for small nuclear missiles capable of destroying plasma bugs and wounding other large enemies.
Starship Troopers is one of the finest pieces of entertainment of all time which is a Fact(TM). It's right up there with Zulu being the greatest war film of all time (another FACT(TM)).
I remember reading the book once many years after I'd seen the film and I found it rather dry, I haven't gone back to it since. From what I remember though (and apologies if this has already been stated as I haven't read the whole thread) the people who made the film came up with a more generic 'Bug Hunt' concept first, and then someone told them there was an old sci-fi book that was similar, so they then bought the rights to use the IP and back-filled in some of the political stuff.
So while it's impossible to know if it would have made a difference to how the movie turned out, it didn't start it's life as a ST adaptation so I'm tempted to side with JH on and suggest that perhaps you can read too much into the film's portrayal of events. The book is where all the subtext really is.
Coming back to the game, it's worth noting that since this is a license deal, it's possible that Slitherine are going to be restricted in what they can and can't cover. They had a lot of freedom with the BSG license in terms of creating new ships and a canon story, but they may not have the same freedom here.
This game is going to be fun!
I did like the movie (really liked the ships as well, too bad they are not going to be in the game). The society in the movie is rather fascist or militarist (clearly not the Federation kind of society). I didn't read the books but i think that the bugs were actually the victims trying to defend themselves. I've always been wondering about the similarity with Conquest: frontier wars...
A question for those that have read the novel. Was every "mobile" infantryman equipped with a power armour suit and did they all have jetpacks?
https://starshiptroopers.fandom.com/wiki/Powered_armor
Quote from: Destraex on December 03, 2019, 07:39:05 AM
A question for those that have read the novel. Was every "mobile" infantryman equipped with a power armour suit and did they all have jetpacks?
https://starshiptroopers.fandom.com/wiki/Powered_armor
I believe that in the book all MI had power suits. There were some support troops (mostly psi?-an individual who "sensed" the location of bug tunnels) who did not have power suits. Incidentally, the Avalon Hill game "Starship Troopers" is a much more faithful recreation of the MI than the movie.
Quote from: Tripoli on December 03, 2019, 09:12:36 AM
Quote from: Destraex on December 03, 2019, 07:39:05 AM
A question for those that have read the novel. Was every "mobile" infantryman equipped with a power armour suit and did they all have jetpacks?
https://starshiptroopers.fandom.com/wiki/Powered_armor
I believe that in the book all MI had power suits. There were some support troops (mostly psi?-an individual who "sensed" the location of bug tunnels) who did not have power suits. Incidentally, the Avalon Hill game "Starship Troopers" is a much more faithful recreation of the MI than the movie.
That is my memory as well, though it is decades ago since I read it.
Another major difference between movie and novel is that in the movie the troopers are deployed in closely packed masses, while in the novel they operate in a sparse formation, each trooper applying enormous firepower, and keeping in contact with his neighbours who would fight blocks away, but who could coordinate long range fire at sudden bursts of bugs.
Theme not with standing, game looks like it's going to be a quick twitch click fest like other RTS games. Not even sure a pause would help me here the way the speed of the game looks.
RTS hoard mode or tower defense maybe? We'll see.
Quote from: mbar on December 03, 2019, 11:21:08 AM
RTS hoard mode or tower defense maybe? We'll see.
From what they described on the stream, it sounds more like it'll be objective-focused real-time tactics.
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on December 02, 2019, 07:02:13 PM
I was surprised to read that Verhoeven was anti-military since I thought (as I can remember) it was a military movie that showed the military fighting the good fight. Then the ironic part was the following and now a PC game. The PC game doesn't look anti-military from what I can tell. So I don't think he accomplished his goal.
Verhoeven is
anti-fascism. Militaries do what they're told to do, and I'm not sure if Verhoeven is pro or anti but I'd guess a little of both.
Verhoeven grew up in a country occupied by the Nazis. (He also did the film Soldier of Orange, which gives a bit more insight into him.)
Starship Troopers is not subtle in the least, and probably suffers from casting too wide a net for targets, but it is definitely not the love-letter to military service that the book was.
Quote from: Tripoli on December 02, 2019, 08:45:39 PM
I read "Starship Troopers" probably twice, the most recently in 1975 or so. I would classify it as juvenile science fiction. However, I liked it then, and still would recommend it as light reading. It did win the Hugo award soon after publication, so it isn't a bad book. I don't recall it being fascistic. Heinlein was clearly arguing that the voting franchise be earned by a period of service to society. He was also arguing against some of the lack of discipline he was seeing in US society in the 1950's. If I recall, the society he invented did not require military service: any service would do, and that anyone who wanted to serve could, and thereby gain the franchise. Nor did he argue that people who didn't serve had fewer rights (except the right to vote and hold public office). Because of this, I don't think of the society he created was fascistic. Certainly, his other books show no sympathy to fascism, and his experience in the US military as a naval officer in the 1930's, while likely giving him a favorable opinion of military service, would have been unlikely to have given him a favorable opinion of fascism.
Edit: Apparenlty, Heinlein considered himself a libertarian.
Interesting Factoid: Heinlein apparently was one of the sources of inspiration behind the USN's Combat Information Center (CIC) concept.
His ideas were used by his USNA classmate. RADM Cal Laning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_information_center)
I think you're exactly right with this assessment. Verhoeven did not stay faithful to the source material. Not sure it would have been a very interesting film if he had, to be honest. But I'm not sure you would ever have a movie anything less than dumb in which the human characters forget tactical lessons going back to 1917 (artillery, tanks, flamethrowers, poison gas, airpower) in order to run around in the open amongst giant bugs.
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on December 03, 2019, 02:27:56 PM
Quote from: Tripoli on December 02, 2019, 08:45:39 PM
I read "Starship Troopers" probably twice, the most recently in 1975 or so. I would classify it as juvenile science fiction. However, I liked it then, and still would recommend it as light reading. It did win the Hugo award soon after publication, so it isn't a bad book. I don't recall it being fascistic. Heinlein was clearly arguing that the voting franchise be earned by a period of service to society. He was also arguing against some of the lack of discipline he was seeing in US society in the 1950's. If I recall, the society he invented did not require military service: any service would do, and that anyone who wanted to serve could, and thereby gain the franchise. Nor did he argue that people who didn't serve had fewer rights (except the right to vote and hold public office). Because of this, I don't think of the society he created was fascistic. Certainly, his other books show no sympathy to fascism, and his experience in the US military as a naval officer in the 1930's, while likely giving him a favorable opinion of military service, would have been unlikely to have given him a favorable opinion of fascism.
Edit: Apparenlty, Heinlein considered himself a libertarian.
Interesting Factoid: Heinlein apparently was one of the sources of inspiration behind the USN's Combat Information Center (CIC) concept.
His ideas were used by his USNA classmate. RADM Cal Laning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_information_center)
I think you're exactly right with this assessment. Verhoeven did not stay faithful to the source material. Not sure it would have been a very interesting film if he had, to be honest. But I'm not sure you would ever have a movie anything less than dumb in which the human characters forget tactical lessons going back to 1917 (artillery, tanks, flamethrowers, poison gas, airpower) in order to run around in the open amongst giant bugs.
I have never actually seen the Starship Trooper movie, but from the clips, it is clear that Verhoeven didn't capture either the theme, or even the tactics of the book. Heinlein had the mobile infantry (MI) descending into the atmosphere in one man capsules, not large transports that would be sitting ducks. Heinlein's MI fought in loose formations miles from each other (which makes sense, giving that they were slinging low-yield nuclear weapons). His MI could literally fly, but instead moved with short, low-altitude jumps, bounding forward to minimize exposure. From what I can tell, Verhoeven's MI fight in a large gaggle that more closely resembles formation of soccer hooligans than any thing else.... In retrospect, Heinlein's MI were far more credible, as befitting their genesis in the mind of a professionally-trained military officer whose creative outlook helped shape real world combat systems.
And the greatest fantasy aspect of the film was beautiful young guys and girls showering together.... platonically. :2funny:
I do have to wonder what exactly a game based on the book would actually play like? Would it be a jetpack-based tactical game about nuking mountains of bugs? I have the admit the movie seems more appealing for a strategy setting, whereas the book style combat would appeal to me more as a first-person or third-person shooter, or a mech sim type of game.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 03, 2019, 07:45:40 PM
I do have to wonder what exactly a game based on the book would actually play like? Would it be a jetpack-based tactical game about nuking mountains of bugs? I have the admit the movie seems more appealing for a strategy setting, whereas the book style combat would appeal to me more as a first-person or third-person shooter, or a mech sim type of game.
I'd imagine it'd have to be based around a zoomable strategic layer where you manage an entire front. Early on in the book it talks about frontages, and the changing density of troops to mileage in warfare. The war in the book had a trooper responsible for a square kilometer of territory.
So, I think you'd have to be essentially playing some kind of game like Supreme Commander where you could manage a very large amount of territory and zoom in to give specific orders.
Honestly, the best thing for that kind of game would be an Sim Style FPS, like the old game Terra Nova.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 03, 2019, 07:45:40 PM
I do have to wonder what exactly a game based on the book would actually play like? Would it be a jetpack-based tactical game about nuking mountains of bugs? I have the admit the movie seems more appealing for a strategy setting, whereas the book style combat would appeal to me more as a first-person or third-person shooter, or a mech sim type of game.
If you ever get a chance, read the first chapter of "Starship Troopers". It basically describes a raid against the "skinnies" who are allies of the arachnids. If that were ported to a game, it would be a FPS shooter. An Arma -type cooperative FPS game. The AH board game put you in charge of a platoon of MI, and it worked pretty well also. It used 1 mile hexes, and one counter=1 MI or (I think 5 or 10 bugs).
Quote from: -budd- on December 03, 2019, 10:49:53 AM
Theme not with standing, game looks like it's going to be a quick twitch click fest like other RTS games. Not even sure a pause would help me here the way the speed of the game looks.
Or a slow tower defence masquerading as RTS.
Used to be a copy online somewhere about a decade ago. Can't find that but found this over on the Internet Archive, the original 2 part magazine serial version Starship Soldier:
https://archive.org/stream/Fantasy_Science_Fiction_v017n04_1959-10_PDF/Fantasy__Science_Fiction_v017n04_1959-10_PDF#page/n103/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/Fantasy_Science_Fiction_v017n05_1959-11_PDF/Fantasy__Science_Fiction_v017n05_1959-11_PDF#page/n49/mode/2up
Good find, Bardolph. Thank you!
The book was a great read and I thought really broken open the genre of hardcore military sci-fi. Earlier authors had had envisioned futuristic combat (thinking of folks like E.E. Doc Smith or Jack Campbell here), but none had taken a nuanced look at the culture of a military unit in the future, or the kind of society that might be needed to produce it.
Those themes have been thoroughly explored in the decades since (by the time VerHoeven made his movie, the genre had been grinding away for thirty years), but his weaving them together in a single book like that was both provocative and ground-breaking.
The second time I read the book, I was 25 and I came away feeling like his social commentary was naive and simplistic. It was obvious he'd not spent much time studying Plato, Aristotle, Machiavelli, Locke, the Founding Fathers, or anybody else who had thought deeply about the relationships between government and society. He was mostly substituting a handful of traditional conservative pablums for the complex lessons and prescriptions of the U.S. Constitutions.
The movie by VerHoeven was heavy-handed, and seemed like it couldn't make its mind up between being a profound critique of society or an action-adventure shoot-'em-up. It used a lot of the same window dressing as the book, but took a profoundly different view of society.
In that sense, I wonder if VerHoeven realized that he was following exactly in Heinlein's literary footsteps (i.e., using the military as a vehicle to explore a society)?
I loved the book when I read it in 7th or 8th grade. I was well on my way into Avalon Hill games and historical miniatures and we had just discovered D&D (75 or 76?) and I was devouring our junior high library, reading all the history stuff when Mrs. Olsen, the librarian pointed me towards Heinlein, Asimov and the rest. I read it about a decade ago and it didn't have the same impact, but I'm not a 14 year old boy anymore lol.
We played a fair amount of the Avalon Hill game back in the day. Didn't have much interest in the recent miniatures game based on the movie. Would love to see a computer game version that was based on the book.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on December 04, 2019, 10:59:02 PM
In that sense, I wonder if VerHoeven realized that he was following exactly in Heinlein's literary footsteps (i.e., using the military as a vehicle to explore a society)?
Either way, I doubt he would have cared much.
Quote from: Tripoli on December 02, 2019, 08:45:39 PM
I read "Starship Troopers" probably twice, the most recently in 1975 or so. I would classify it as juvenile science fiction. However, I liked it then, and still would recommend it as light reading. It did win the Hugo award soon after publication, so it isn't a bad book. I don't recall it being fascistic. Heinlein was clearly arguing that the voting franchise be earned by a period of service to society. He was also arguing against some of the lack of discipline he was seeing in US society in the 1950's. If I recall, the society he invented did not require military service: any service would do, and that anyone who wanted to serve could, and thereby gain the franchise. Nor did he argue that people who didn't serve had fewer rights (except the right to vote and hold public office). Because of this, I don't think of the society he created was fascistic. Certainly, his other books show no sympathy to fascism, and his experience in the US military as a naval officer in the 1930's, while likely giving him a favorable opinion of military service, would have been unlikely to have given him a favorable opinion of fascism.
Edit: Apparenlty, Heinlein considered himself a libertarian.
Interesting Factoid: Heinlein apparently was one of the sources of inspiration behind the USN's Combat Information Center (CIC) concept.
His ideas were used by his USNA classmate. RADM Cal Laning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_information_center)
+1. I saw nothing fascist in the movie or the book. It showed free society that had had the restriction of prior public service (military or non-military) to become enfranchised to vote and the military was subject to civilian authorities. The movie might have come across as authoritarian to some because of its focus on the war, but that was not the picture Heinlein intended.
Thanks for that Bardolph. :)
Was supposed to be released at end of March but devs recently announced a delay...no specific date but said would be months
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 20, 2022, 05:34:28 PM
Was supposed to be released at end of March but devs recently announced a delay...no specific date but said would be months
Really enjoyed the demo. It definitely could have used some more time in the oven, so hopefully the time is being used to clean some things up. It would be great if the anemic audio was addressed, as well, but I'm still looking forward to it.
Today we are making an important announcement related to the release date: Starship Troopers - Terran Command won't be releasing on March 31st as previously announced.
The new and definitive launch date will be June 16, 2022.
We know many will find this announcement disappointing and we apologize. We truly feel that a few extra months of further polish and bug fixing will make a significant difference.
We intend to deliver a finished and polished game, and it is very important for us that you are able to fully enjoy the game from day 1, without any issue spoiling your fun or without having to wait for future patches or hotfixes.
The game is now content complete and all remaining development time will be entirely focused on refining what already exists. We can't wait to reveal more, and we plan to show you a lot in the months leading up to the launch in June.
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1202130?emclan=103582791465811643&emgid=3123815529819118582
Rimmy seems to like this one pretty well:
I'm playing it now. Impressions to follow shortly.
https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinetv
Starship Troopers: Terran Command launch event is now live.
In case anyone missed it...
http://grogheads.com/review/first-impressions/21200 (http://grogheads.com/review/first-impressions/21200)
Released.
24,99 € on Steam, 30,99 € on Matrix.^
19,99 € on GMG : https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/starship-troopers-terran-command-pc/
I always took the movie as purposely over-the-top, tongue planted firmly in cheek. And from that perspective I liked it...even though it deviated from the book.
As far as the game... well... I am not generally a fan of strategy games that run on a rail. I like open worlds, with random maps. But there have been exceptions. SSI's Panzer General being a good example of one I liked...
So going to cautiously sit on sidelines with this one...and see how folks feel about it after all the release adrenaline runs off.
Very limited replayability with this one it seems as no skirmish mode or random maps and limited enemy types.
Not for me purely for those reasons, but RTS without an ability to issue orders whilst paused or slow down the action to a reasonable speed (for me !) is the clincher....
I hear this game has a lot of Bugs...
New content roadmap released:
(https://attachments.office.net/owa/craigh%40grogheads.com/service.svc/s/GetAttachmentThumbnail?id=AAMkADMzM2YwZTQ1LTUwZWItNDM1YS1iYjA0LWUwODk4NGJlMDNmMQBGAAAAAAC007t6HWMyRKK%2BsPYXt7JnBwBeaqyJuUElSJtpdskRbw1SAAAAAAEMAABeaqyJuUElSJtpdskRbw1SAAHCBIA5AAABEgAQAAA%2F0UE7iwBLqf8COxaKu1I%3D&thumbnailType=2&token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6IkQ4OThGN0RDMjk2ODQ1MDk1RUUwREZGQ0MzODBBOTM5NjUwNDNFNjQiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJ4NXQiOiIySmozM0Nsb1JRbGU0Tl84dzRDcE9XVUVQbVEifQ.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.c5HZEyTxjbkI3EUV81qx-zThVx0X6_rFlN0Ql-rYNG4SSxkbgb7-DYaOLoozIVBWXtB_a0siz60Mo1cEMheWsqMw8L7bLYIM37mAFVmQMcnZJ9wo9YWmeszp5HF4epINX8HGkAZGkFCrh4MbTqgzNumb2tVze1gugM45AWLkqVYVWoBb41aMERvNRYnWTjNKdngmymh7_v1gSP4ObbMyfP4gtdrxHeHvqxHy_ZCbFa2D4M560Hc3qVRDWqgXMs3-jebr4EHDwG8FlZUUfddwNf-A2NctwZJoEKBAST2CT6iCJm7EgOg24VXJsXwacNlXlZj-SqsVLYknS0CCVCz1Wg&X-OWA-CANARY=4ieMLO7Vi0eJ5_l9YVIynGCVYpK1kdoYYOKjdB_aq4H-PjUy_zs-n-hjLuBoH23MuRW_AQuaWCI.&owa=outlook.office.com&scriptVer=20220826004.06&animation=true)
Quote
Free Updates
Initial free updates will focus on balance and interface improvements. Following that, an update will contain a new, free scenario and a new Federation unit. The next update will bring Achievements and new Challenge missions. This new type of missions will come with a freshly implemented High Score system.
A Scenario editor will also be released, allowing players to craft their own maps and scenarios. Finally, a different and new game mode to enhance replayability even further is being worked on and will be released in 2023.
Premium Content
The Artistocrats and Slitherine are planning to release two paid-for DLCs within the first year of release: the first is a mini-Campaign based on challenge missions. A more extensive DLC will follow, with an entire Campaign set in a new environment and featuring additional units.
just received this video roadmap. Doesn't appear to contain any additional info. beyond what was previously shared. Still, really excited for the scenario editor, new campaigns and more information on the new game mode.
Just got my anniversary coupon. Is this game any good, or should I wait until next year ? I'm concerned that it has a clunky UI and is still buggy.
I've got too many games as it is, and although I don't mind a near miss, time has become more valuable to me than money.
I put about 12 hours into it before losing interest and moving onto other things, but I did really like it and there have been updates, patches and new features since I last played. It also recently received a scenario editor and workshop support and there is already a bunch of new missions available.
Thanks, Jarhead. You're a gentleman and a scholar.