Starship Troopers: Terran Command

[Tripoli]

A question for those that have read the novel. Was every "mobile" infantryman equipped with a power armour suit and did they all have jetpacks?
https://starshiptroopers.fandom.com/wiki/Powered_armor

I believe that in the book  all MI had power suits.  There were some support troops (mostly psi?-an individual who "sensed" the location of bug tunnels) who did not have power suits.    Incidentally, the Avalon Hill game "Starship Troopers" is a much more faithful recreation of the MI than the movie.

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

A question for those that have read the novel. Was every "mobile" infantryman equipped with a power armour suit and did they all have jetpacks?
https://starshiptroopers.fandom.com/wiki/Powered_armor

I believe that in the book  all MI had power suits.  There were some support troops (mostly psi?-an individual who "sensed" the location of bug tunnels) who did not have power suits.    Incidentally, the Avalon Hill game "Starship Troopers" is a much more faithful recreation of the MI than the movie.

That is my memory as well, though it is decades ago since I read it.

Another major difference between movie and novel is that in the movie the troopers are deployed in closely packed masses, while in the novel they operate in a sparse formation, each trooper applying enormous firepower, and keeping in contact with his neighbours who would fight blocks away, but who could coordinate long range fire at sudden bursts of bugs.

[-budd-]

Theme not with standing, game looks like it's going to be a quick twitch click fest like other RTS games. Not even sure a pause would help me here the way the speed of the game looks.

[mbar]

RTS hoard mode or tower defense maybe? We'll see.

[al_infierno]

RTS hoard mode or tower defense maybe? We'll see.

From what they described on the stream, it sounds more like it'll be objective-focused real-time tactics.

[Michael Dorosh]

I was surprised to read that Verhoeven was anti-military since I thought (as I can remember) it was a military movie that showed the military fighting the good fight.  Then the ironic part was the following and now a PC game.  The PC game doesn't look anti-military from what I can tell.  So I don't think he accomplished his goal. 

Verhoeven is anti-fascism. Militaries do what they're told to do, and I'm not sure if Verhoeven is pro or anti but I'd guess a little of both.

Verhoeven grew up in a country occupied by the Nazis. (He also did the film Soldier of Orange, which gives a bit more insight into him.)

Starship Troopers is not subtle in the least, and probably suffers from casting too wide a net for targets, but it is definitely not the love-letter to military service that the book was.

[Michael Dorosh]

I read "Starship Troopers" probably twice, the most recently in 1975 or so.  I would classify it as juvenile science fiction.  However, I liked it then, and still would recommend it as light reading. It did win the Hugo award soon after publication, so it isn't a bad book.  I don't recall it being fascistic.  Heinlein was clearly arguing that the voting franchise be earned by a period of service to society.  He was also arguing against some of the lack of discipline he was seeing in US society in the 1950's.  If I recall, the society he invented did not require military service: any service would do, and that anyone who wanted to serve could, and thereby gain the franchise.  Nor did he argue that people who didn't serve had fewer rights (except the right to vote and hold public office).  Because of this, I don't think of the society he created was fascistic.  Certainly, his other books show no sympathy to fascism, and his experience in the US military as a naval officer in the 1930's, while likely giving him a favorable opinion of military service, would have been unlikely to have given him a favorable opinion of fascism.

Edit: Apparenlty, Heinlein considered himself a libertarian. 
Interesting Factoid: Heinlein apparently was one of the sources of inspiration behind the USN's Combat Information Center (CIC) concept.
His ideas were used by his USNA classmate. RADM Cal Laning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_information_center)

I think you're exactly right with this assessment. Verhoeven did not stay faithful to the source material. Not sure it would have been a very interesting film if he had, to be honest. But I'm not sure you would ever have a movie anything less than dumb in which the human characters forget tactical lessons going back to 1917 (artillery, tanks, flamethrowers, poison gas, airpower) in order to run around in the open amongst giant bugs.

[Tripoli]

I read "Starship Troopers" probably twice, the most recently in 1975 or so.  I would classify it as juvenile science fiction.  However, I liked it then, and still would recommend it as light reading. It did win the Hugo award soon after publication, so it isn't a bad book.  I don't recall it being fascistic.  Heinlein was clearly arguing that the voting franchise be earned by a period of service to society.  He was also arguing against some of the lack of discipline he was seeing in US society in the 1950's.  If I recall, the society he invented did not require military service: any service would do, and that anyone who wanted to serve could, and thereby gain the franchise.  Nor did he argue that people who didn't serve had fewer rights (except the right to vote and hold public office).  Because of this, I don't think of the society he created was fascistic.  Certainly, his other books show no sympathy to fascism, and his experience in the US military as a naval officer in the 1930's, while likely giving him a favorable opinion of military service, would have been unlikely to have given him a favorable opinion of fascism.

Edit: Apparenlty, Heinlein considered himself a libertarian. 
Interesting Factoid: Heinlein apparently was one of the sources of inspiration behind the USN's Combat Information Center (CIC) concept.
His ideas were used by his USNA classmate. RADM Cal Laning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_information_center)

I think you're exactly right with this assessment. Verhoeven did not stay faithful to the source material. Not sure it would have been a very interesting film if he had, to be honest. But I'm not sure you would ever have a movie anything less than dumb in which the human characters forget tactical lessons going back to 1917 (artillery, tanks, flamethrowers, poison gas, airpower) in order to run around in the open amongst giant bugs.

I have never actually seen the Starship Trooper movie, but from the clips, it is clear that Verhoeven didn't capture either the theme, or even the tactics of the book.  Heinlein had the mobile infantry (MI) descending into the atmosphere in one man capsules, not large transports that would be sitting ducks.  Heinlein's MI fought in loose formations miles from each other (which makes sense, giving that they were slinging low-yield nuclear weapons).  His MI could literally fly, but instead moved with short, low-altitude jumps, bounding forward to minimize exposure.  From what I can tell, Verhoeven's MI fight in a large gaggle that more closely resembles formation of soccer hooligans than any thing else....  In retrospect, Heinlein's MI were far more credible, as befitting their genesis in the mind of a professionally-trained military officer whose creative outlook helped shape real world combat systems.

[Sir Slash]

And the greatest fantasy aspect of the film was beautiful young guys and girls showering together.... platonically. 

[al_infierno]

I do have to wonder what exactly a game based on the book would actually play like?  Would it be a jetpack-based tactical game about nuking mountains of bugs?  I have the admit the movie seems more appealing for a strategy setting, whereas the book style combat would appeal to me more as a first-person or third-person shooter, or a mech sim type of game.

[SirAndrewD]

I do have to wonder what exactly a game based on the book would actually play like?  Would it be a jetpack-based tactical game about nuking mountains of bugs?  I have the admit the movie seems more appealing for a strategy setting, whereas the book style combat would appeal to me more as a first-person or third-person shooter, or a mech sim type of game.

I'd imagine it'd have to be based around a zoomable strategic layer where you manage an entire front.   Early on in the book it talks about frontages, and the changing density of troops to mileage in warfare.  The war in the book had a trooper responsible for a square kilometer of territory. 

So, I think you'd have to be essentially playing some kind of game like Supreme Commander where you could manage a very large amount of territory and zoom in to give specific orders. 

Honestly, the best thing for that kind of game would be an Sim Style FPS, like the old game Terra Nova. 

[Tripoli]

I do have to wonder what exactly a game based on the book would actually play like?  Would it be a jetpack-based tactical game about nuking mountains of bugs?  I have the admit the movie seems more appealing for a strategy setting, whereas the book style combat would appeal to me more as a first-person or third-person shooter, or a mech sim type of game.

If you ever get a chance, read the first chapter of "Starship Troopers".  It basically describes a raid against the "skinnies" who are allies of the arachnids.  If that were ported to a game, it would be a FPS shooter.  An Arma -type cooperative FPS game.   The AH board game put you in charge of a platoon of MI, and it worked pretty well also.  It used 1 mile hexes, and one counter=1 MI or (I think 5 or 10 bugs).

[jomni]

Theme not with standing, game looks like it's going to be a quick twitch click fest like other RTS games. Not even sure a pause would help me here the way the speed of the game looks.

Or a slow tower defence masquerading as RTS.

[Bardolph]

Used to be a copy online somewhere about a decade ago. Can't find that but found this over on the Internet Archive, the original 2 part magazine serial version Starship Soldier:

https://archive.org/stream/Fantasy_Science_Fiction_v017n04_1959-10_PDF/Fantasy__Science_Fiction_v017n04_1959-10_PDF#page/n103/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/Fantasy_Science_Fiction_v017n05_1959-11_PDF/Fantasy__Science_Fiction_v017n05_1959-11_PDF#page/n49/mode/2up

[DoctorQuest]

Good find, Bardolph. Thank you!