With Yskonyn and perhaps some other Grogs picking up Fog:Empires recently, and wanting to get into a multiplayer game...!
I've been wanting to try an "Alpine Wall" team game for a while. This would only need a few teammates (even only one would be super-helpful!) The idea is to provide security for each other's flank in at least one direction (and maybe a little mutual defense help), while we work to take over the alps as a wall against Rome's expansion (and the older Successor states), and also spread into central and northern Europe.
We might have to temporarily go to war with each other to trade off 'goal' territories, and otherwise check with each other before expanding to make sure we aren't encroaching on each other's game-assigned goals -- there's no way to trade territories peacefully in this game -- but otherwise we'd ally with one another immediately and stay that way as much as possible.
We win by surviving, and by CDF rankings (since Legacy rankings might be screwed up a little).
I would take the Rhaeti, who have the dippy start position of a primitive capital in the Alps (almost impossible to improve)! -- but also two good completely undeveloped lowland areas north of our capital (including apparently our original homeland territory as one of our goal areas already held.)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2128/xoWskd.png)
Potential team-neighbors north of the Alps (not south where you'll get steamrolled by Rome soon, and also more constrained by land expansion by the same token), as shown in the snapshot are:
Aedui: one territory but starts already on the Alps, too, and has a great though primitive army and defensive structure!
Marcomanni: one territory and probably never on the Alps, but lots of rich expansion room. Theoretically you'd donate cash to me once you've got rich areas going, to help pay mercenaries for taking and securing the Alps.
Bohoiemi: three territories, like the Rhaeti, but you'll have to work a little to get to the Alps and would be responsible for guarding a large pass. You might have to deal with both Rome and one or two Successor states eventually!
Colour me interested! \m/
I'll try Bohemi
Room for one more then! -- we'll box the compass and spread out from there! Europa Uber Alles!
...oh. Oh, uh, maybe, um... some other slogan... :hide:
If you can't find anyone to take Aedui by the time you are ready to start, I will volunteer.
Ysk, that would leave you as the Marcomanni by deduction. You okay with that? Or would you rather have the Aedi? (They have poorer starting land but a better starting army and fort areas.)
Marco is fine!
If you want another nation to help against the Roman hordes I could take Dalmatia or Illyria.
Just to be clear, I am throwing my name in there as a placeholder unless you can't find anyone.
Then Speedy could take the Aedui? (Though Ysk may have first pick relatively.)
Dalmatia might be an interesting ally south of the Wall; and they kind of start on another wall. In that case, though, an Illyrium ally would be nice for them since they'll be cut off from the rest of us for a while.
Okay, I'm going to set up the game.
The game (or "Challenge") name will be ALPINE WALL, and it will be listed referencing Grogheads.
Password will be Grogs (capital G).
5 players, in case no one takes the Aedui and MD still wants that. I can start it manually without him if the slots otherwise fill up or players cancel out.
Keep in mind if you're new to FoG:Emp multiplayer (as Ysk presumably is, at least), that you must log in to the Matrix/Slitherine servers using your Matrix/Slitherine unified account. If you don't have one, the mp login window has a button to lead you there. (I'm unsure if they ever combined this with their forum logins; the forums ran on a different engine than their website. Anyway, unless you're sure they're the same don't presume your Matrix FORUM username and password will work.)
3 day turnaround, which should be okay for any of us who are scattered around the world. If you time out, the game will take over temporarily; if you miss 2 or 3 (I think 3?) turns, the game will take over for you semi-permanently; but you can still log back into the game and take over at any time!
Fog of War is on, so unless the game is sharing information from an ally, you'll need proximity to a region (at least) to see who's there.
None of us are likely to have lots of Legacy points for a while, so I've made sure Quick Victory is off so that we don't get steamrolled by a Successor state or one of the new superstates (e.g. Rome). Legacy instant win will trigger only once the first place faction has more than 3x the legacy of the 2nd place.
I've turned on slower progress and decadence since we're likely to be struggling as decadence sinks for a while, and that hurts more in the early game than slower progress hurts in the later game.
Out of Supply penalty is on, so you (and the AI) can lose units if they're out of supply too long.
I think that's everything? Make sure you left-click your faction in the list! -- otherwise you'll default to Rome or to whoever is next down the list if someone else mistakenly didn't click their chosen faction!
No Decadance to hurt the 'big' countries as they are running wild?
Oof, trial by fire then! I had hoped to at least finish reading the manual before we started and ideally played one or two intro games. :D
I'll be depending on trustworthy allies for the first turns until I know what I am doing. Go easy on me please. :)
Quote from: Tuna on December 03, 2019, 09:20:40 AM
No Decadance to hurt the 'big' countries as they are running wild?
Same lesser dec for them; also same lesser progress tho!
I can recreate the game easily enough with normal dec/prog rates, if there's a majority in favor.
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 03, 2019, 11:45:17 AM
Quote from: Tuna on December 03, 2019, 09:20:40 AM
No Decadance to hurt the 'big' countries as they are running wild?
Same lesser dec for them; also same lesser progress tho!
I can recreate the game easily enough with normal dec/prog rates, if there's a majority in favor.
I just think that is one advantage we have over the AI 'big' countries'.. when they're running rampart, their decadance is through the roof and you hope for and lots of time see Civil Wars.. If they don't have that, then they can go on being powerful steam rolling opponents.
Quote from: Yskonyn on December 03, 2019, 10:01:49 AM
Oof, trial by fire then! I had hoped to at least finish reading the manual before we started and ideally played one or two intro games. :D
I'll be depending on trustworthy allies for the first turns until I know what I am doing. Go easy on me please. :)
In the beginning you want to build as many 'food' building's as possible, get that population up.. then once you start having some 'peeps' move them into culture. This will help you upgrade your Civilization to tier III, this is almost more important than 'expanding' too far in the beginning.
Also.. Look at your regions and try to 'complete' your province. when ever you 'do' expand, always try to plan on taking the province, you need 50% of the regions to do so. There is a 'province' map filter that will show you which regions make up each province.
You can arrange that with your teammates, too.
The game assigns a pretty standard set of conquer-goals to each faction, in what is usually or always the same order. Gaining those will provide automatic progress tokens usually (only 50% chance or gaining or losing progress for gaining or losing goals in the reduced prog/dec.) Gaining one will also avoid earning decadence points from conquest. You should negotiate with your nearby allies about making sure you all get as many as possible, perhaps trading off goal areas by going to war temporarily. (No way to do so peacefully in this game.)
Tuna is correct about the larger factions having decadence problems leading to civil war, and that's a big argument in favor of doing the usual decadence. On the other hand, we're often starting out in positions where we nurse decadence like Makers' Mark, and that makes it difficult to get to Civ level 3 even with devoted culture production -- but Tuna's correct about not neglecting that! So slowing our own decadence down in the early game can keep us from being crippled early (even though that also makes it harder for us and the NPC factions to progress.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 03, 2019, 02:53:16 PM
You can arrange that with your teammates, too.
The game assigns a pretty standard set of conquer-goals to each faction, in what is usually or always the same order. Gaining those will provide automatic progress tokens usually (only 50% chance or gaining or losing progress for gaining or losing goals in the reduced prog/dec.) Gaining one will also avoid earning decadence points from conquest. You should negotiate with your nearby allies about making sure you all get as many as possible, perhaps trading off goal areas by going to war temporarily. (No way to do so peacefully in this game.)
Tuna is correct about the larger factions having decadence problems leading to civil war, and that's a big argument in favor of doing the usual decadence. On the other hand, we're often starting out in positions where we nurse decadence like Makers' Mark, and that makes it difficult to get to Civ level 3 even with devoted culture production -- but Tuna's correct about not neglecting that! So slowing our own decadence down in the early game can keep us from being crippled early (even though that also makes it harder for us and the NPC factions to progress.)
I think the better way is to settle down and crank that Culture early. Once you reach Tier III I think on decadence, you kill the culture enough to stay 'young' as long as possible. In my current game with MD and W8t.. I'm trying to dive from Glorious to 'old', so I can then attempt to get to 'Stable'.. I think Young is out of reach once you leave it in Tier III.. Unless you want to go through a collapse of your Civ.
I vote for a restart of normal settings, I don't think I'm interested in the change, were I've tried so hard to learn the normal game.
1 vote to change!
Servers are janky tonight -- I couldn't log in a few minutes ago -- so anyone new trying to log in, if you're having problems, it may not be you.
I have too little experience so I abstain. I'll go with whatever is decided.
I did enroll as Marco in the mean time however.
I dropped, if you decide 'regular', I'm in, but if not, I'm not interested.
Well, you're the only other player currently signed up aside from Ysk and myself; and Ysk has no experience for an opinion one way or another; and I'm good either way; so I've restarted with normal prog/dec levels. O:-)
Same password: Grogs
K will join again after work. If Ysk wants to do a session on tips early on, I'm open. We're all allies anyways right?
Yep! -- though you know how this game goes, we have to manually "ally" with each other (send alliance proposals or accept them).
That's another big reason for going back to normal prog/dec, because you've got your system for managing it, and we want our allies to be as strong as possible!
Other thing I do early game, is make Friends with the nearby Giants, be it Rome or Carthage, Macedonia etc..That way they wont DOW you and Steam Roll. Later when we're stronger we can rebel.
That means when you have extra cash, send them gifts.
I'm thinking of waiting until Sunday night sometime to start the game, to give Speedy and possibly MD decision time to jump in. Strictly speaking no one has taken the Aedui yet after all. (I think.)
Anyone looking to jump in as Aedui is certainly welcome. I'm just a space filler right now.
Okay, MD, if you're going to jump in as the Aedui, now's the time! -- I plan to start the game today, probably this afternoon (and/or the next time the overwhelmed Matrixlitherine servers allow me to log in. ;) )
MD is in as the Aedui, and the Alpine Wall game is running!
First up, as one of the two guys already on the wall: I've sent alliance requests to the rest of you.
Second, since Rhaeti starts pretty dirt poor (only three bldgs in my capital territory, one of which needs to be torn down asap, and very difficult to get more properties developed; with no properties at all in the other two areas), I'm running a task force to Rhaetia's only other downhill region pronto, Isarus (but splitting off a warrior and two skirms to camp in my alpine capital and fend off raids.) This will allow me to provincialize immediately, and then I can spread some of the infrastructure and food I pick up elsewhere to help bootstrap the capital area.
I won't need to worry about protecting my downland regions yet, because we've teamed up! -- and the same is true for the rest of us, too, we don't have to worry about each of us even launching raids on each other. (The raids in this part of the world badly hamstring development of each other, which is admittedly historical. ;) ) We'll still need to watch out for AI raids from elsewhere.
Once I've got Isarus, and I provincialize, I'll concentrate on bootstrapping up for a while, and on picking up my other two Rhaeti areas (which are in the Alps flanking my capital, not great areas to grab when not a province yet.) So I shouldn't be in anyone's way. O:-)
I went to accept the challenge last night and the game was not there. So, no, I am not in.
Oh! -- that's weird, there were four players in when I sent it off; I assumed it was you. I guess Speedy got in?? Edited to add, yep Speedy in as Dalmatia.
We've only had one move; I can reset fast if you still want in!
Would you still like to be in as the Aedui, MD? We still haven't run our second turn yet. (Technically waiting on Ysk, but he may be waiting to hear from you again...)
Okay, heard back from MD, and he does still want to join as the Aedui, so I've created a 3rd ALPINE WALL game. (We've only played one turn in the current game, so there shouldn't be any problems.)
Password again is Grogs.
I can't cancel the current game yet, but if everyone ignores it going forward, it will stale out to AI and I can punt it then. (...I think. Worst case, I stale it out, too, and let the AI play all the pieces by itself as much as it wants. O:-) )
The current game is v3, for a little clarity in telling the active games apart.
Note to Yskonyn! -- consequently, as the remaining turn on the first game (or second game rather), just don't play that one, join up and replay your first turn in the v3 game.
(It is of course perfectly fine to keep playing the v2 game currently running, if anyone wants to do that, too; it could just be rather confusing to tell the difference between the active games. And you may have fewer human allies to communicate and plan with. Such as no Aedui watching our western flank at least!)
Sorry, holiday prep caused some delay and I hadn't checked here in a bit.
Ok, I am logged in for v3 ad Marco!
Let's get this rolling!
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 10, 2019, 08:30:17 PM
Note to Yskonyn! -- consequently, as the remaining turn on the first game (or second game rather), just don't play that one, join up and replay your first turn in the v3 game.
(It is of course perfectly fine to keep playing the v2 game currently running, if anyone wants to do that, too; it could just be rather confusing to tell the difference between the active games. And you may have fewer human allies to communicate and plan with. Such as no Aedui watching our western flank at least!)
Can you kill the first one JP? So it's not hanging in the queue?
I will kill the first one as soon as the system lets me (as I noted earlier), but there doesn't seem to be a way to do that yet -- not while it's still hanging in the queue anyway.
Meanwhile, everyone's in for the 3rd attempt, except for Speedy, so it'll start rolling when Speedy logs in!
As a reminder, since it's going to happen soon: the old Alpine Challenge game can just be surrendered when it finally cycles up in about an hour. (Ysk could play his turn and cycle it sooner, but he signed into the new one already).
PBEM+++ (or whatever it's called) doesn't track win/loss records, I think, and I'll be the first to surrender anyway. O:-)
Again, anyone who wants to keep playing it is definitely welcome to do so! -- those who don't should surrender out asap so that the game won't be delayed much more for anyone who wants to keep playing it.
Okay, Speedy's in, we're off and running on v3!
(I surrendered promptly out of the first game, which for technical reasons was also v2. So that isn't on my list anymore.)
As before, I'm sending a task force to go take the Isaurus region as soon as possible, so that I can provincialize asap, which from experimentation is practically the only way for me to have any chance to survive and thrive (and to bring in the remaining two Rhaeti regions, up on the alps, using help from the rest of my Rhaeti regions.)
MD as the Aedui may be the most exposed of our confederation, so I'll be looking next to move in his direction to link up so that in an emergency my troops can get into his land to help fight on his defense. (Though it may be some time before I can afford more troops.)
The Marcomanni should consider doing the same, not least because expanding that direction will be the fastest way for you to provincialize: you should be prioritzing regions in Germania Mediorirazzenfrazzen (I forget the latin, but middle Germany) because that's where the Marco's one starting region starts! I think you'll need to pick up four to provincialize (they have seven total iirc? Maybe eight?) And you should find enough expanding roughly westward toward the Aedui.
The game gives me the dumbest possible goals (including the Tarento boot), but fortunately none of them seem to be in y'all's way except for one in Middle Germany on my starting border. It's more important for the Marcos to have that one, however, so I'll gladly cede it.
I DO NOT recommend expanding into an area with only one workgroup, unless it's a region of an area you already provincialized and so can use your logistic help effectively. Even a region with only two workgroups could be pushing problems, especially if they have no properties on the ground yet. But this early in the game, in our area of Europe, there aren't many such good choices. (Dalmatia may have the best pick simply from having a wide enough border to provide options? Don't know.)
For Marco do you suggest raising levies to increase my army presence?
We'll form a protective buffer towards Aedui is you plan, correct?
QUESTION: How do I assess the defensive capablity of a province I am targeting to attack? In other words, how can I get a reading on how feasible it would be to take X province from Y nation?
Note that in this game the basic land areas are "regions", sometimes called territories perhaps. "Provinces" are a group of regions, collected under one governmental organization, with a Governor's building in the provincial capital -- an area that can be assigned by the game, as I learned the other day when forming the Rhaeti province! It wasn't in my national capital, nor in the region I clicked to form the province in! Consequently, all new troops formed 'over there', where I wasn't expecting them to appear. :P
To answer the question somewhat literally, you take a province (per se) away from an opponent by seizing enough of their provincial regions to drop them below the minimum needed to sustain provincial government.
For example, say a province has seven regions in its geography. Your enemy currently holds four of them, the minimum needed for them to form the province. If you take one region away from them, you haven't seized control of the right to call the province yourself, but you've denied it to them. Once you take four of those regions yourself (they could be the three regions he doesn't have plus one they do have, for example), you can create the province under your own control.
Defensive capability assessment of a province depends on its regions and what you can see of the troops there in the fog of war, of course, so I'll drop down to the regional level.
The FOW in this game only affects troops and their movements, and even then is fairly simple: if you can see over a border, you can see whether there are mustered troops in that region, and you'll be able to see all of them, and accurately to their current status (green, yellow, or red). The game will also tally their combat power for you in some tooltips based on their flag. (The flag graphic itself can be a little misleading -- I've seen tattered flags for a fully green doomstack, so I have no idea what information the tattered flag was supposed to be giving me!)
What you CAN'T see, because they aren't there yet, are any units on order which may pop into existence as you come in! -- or which may move into a region from outside your view (though otherwise they already exist). That's a very normal strategy game situation, but it crops up with some regularity in this game I've noticed.
Regardless of whether you can see troops, I think you can always see the properties of any region on the map at any time: you can look down at Qatabia from Marcoman, and see what properties they've built for example. Some properties affect siege attempts (not always military/red properties!); and some affect garrison levels (usually red properties); and some do both. (Most properties have no such effects for defense.)
There are no siege engines in the game, so the question of how soon you can punch through enemy defenses depends on how many skirmishers and regular infantry (including variations like "warriors") they have in the town -- which will include inherent garrison units who spawn in when enemies arrive, and despawn out once enemies leave -- compared to how many regular infantry (and maybe skirms?? I forget) you're bringing to the siege. The enemy may be forced to throw them out at you into battle immediately if there aren't enough walls built in the regional city. (This has caught me by surprise before, to my loss!) You can always choose to break the siege and attack with what you've got, but you'll suffer problems if you haven't made enough holes in the walls. Defenders only need one year (turn) of freedom from hassle to totally rebuild walls, but you may need six or more years (turns) to punch through them depending on what you've brought.
Logistics can be a problem, too. Make sure you're attacking, if possible, from a region that has good food supply (possibly by being connected to a well-developed province), if the region you're attacking doesn't have a lot of food stored up or good foraging opportunities. Mousing over a region will tooltip you what its food production and usage currently are, and also what its forage level will be.
Your culture (maybe modified by your current leader and/or your nation status) will be able to keep up a certain (variable) number of units without maintenance costs (though you'll still have to pay buying costs if you don't have that many units yet). I think that applies logistically to invading places, too.
Some of this estimation gets thrown out the window when invading independent regions. Regions controlled by factions will never have inherent defenders spawning in the countryside (I think); but indie regions will spawn a certain number of units (based on various factors, primarily workgroup population) completely aside from any garrison spawns they may have!
So right now you have no factional regions on your borders, except for mine. If you mouse over mine, you'll see nothing saying you can expect x-number of defenders, and my regions next to yours don't have even a village yet to spawn garrison troops. (But if you mouse over MD's fort over in Aedui, you'll see the tooptip telling you to expect x-combat power worth of defenders spawning there.)
If you mouse over the gray regions next to you, the tooltip will tell you that you can expect x-number of troops to muster to meet you in defense. And if any of them have a village or fortified area (I don't think they will this early), you'll have to mouse over THAT to get an idea of the combat power in the garrison -- which will NOT be the number of garrison troops spawning in per se, and which will be totally separate from inherent troops spawning up to defend the region!
I think the minimum inherent regional defense is 3 units, but you won't know for sure what you'll have to fight until you go in.
Iirc, all the areas to your west (toward reaching Aedui and supporting MD) are forest for a while, so you should avoid bringing heavy infantry unless you have overwhelming power otherwise, because heavy infs have combat maluses in swamps, mountains, and forests.
The tooltip rolling over a region should tell you what kind of frontage you can expect. If you have more troops than the frontage, then they may be stuck behind the line during the fight and not contribute (unless there's a draw and the fight continues and they replace fallen troops as reserves). Skirmishers, including light cavalry, may start in front along the frontage gap, shoot/throw their things, and then withdraw behind the main front line. The game will tend to put your strongest available units on the front line with some random placement. If you have skirms (inf or cav) available to help fill out the front line, the game will try to put them on the flanks, so that if your front line is wider than theirs (within the hard limits imposed by natural terrain on available frontage) then whoever is on your flanks can and will get extra attacks on your enemy's flanking units. Trying to plan ahead for this can get weird in a forest or mountains, due to the very restricted natural frontage!
This should give you an idea, however, about what you can aim to bring for a front line and for its support, against what an enemy can be expected to bring to defense (keeping in mind you won't necessarily know what an indie has got when you initially invade them, only how many inherent troops will muster, and maybe the expected combat power of troops that will spawn in an indie garrison.)
Be careful about losing to indies, though! -- their garrisons (if any) will despawn after the fight, but their mustered defensive troops won't, and they can go on to be VERY SERIOUS threats, raiding and invading you where they detect weakness! Basically they will act like a new micro-faction, and can grow to occupy and manage a large number of regions!
The one big plus in this game is that we are allies. The tough part of this region/start is that all your neighbors are all usually attacking you. We will unite and dominate the map eventually!
Thanks for the detailed write-up Jason! :bd:
Looks like I will have to assign my current army to Garrison duty for a while as I grow my army.
IIRC one turn equal 1 game year. So I assume in 1 year multiple buildings can be built and multiple units can be trained?
Alas, multiple buildings cannot be built in the same region in one year. Usually takes several years, especially at the start of the game!
Multiple units can be trained per turn, up to the limits of your resources, or 8 units per region whichever comes first. (Until you provincialize; then you can only train 8 units per turn in the whole province! But you'll share resources to make that easier.)
Quote from: Yskonyn on December 12, 2019, 12:35:00 PM
Thanks for the detailed write-up Jason! :bd:
Looks like I will have to assign my current army to Garrison duty for a while as I grow my army.
I think you start out with a fairly punchy army, so you should consider camping your heavies (I assume you have them) and assaulting somewhere useful next door. Otherwise your army may start eating you out of your only starting region!
Mouse over a region to get an idea if your army will be hampering food there. If the food text in the tooltip is red, reduce the number of troops there (somehow) pronto, or immediately increase food production this turn (or both).
Click the Province filter, to see which regions you need to take to form your first Province.
Quote from: Yskonyn on December 12, 2019, 03:03:51 AM
For Marco do you suggest raising levies to increase my army presence?
We'll form a protective buffer towards Aedui is you plan, correct?
QUESTION: How do I assess the defensive capablity of a province I am targeting to attack? In other words, how can I get a reading on how feasible it would be to take X province from Y nation?
In the beginning, just build lots of food buildings and breed people! You're gonna need em!
(As mentioned in my post-turn message, but expanding and repeating here for better archiving):
Okay, I've got Isarus, so I'll be forming the Rhaetian province next turn, so my dirt-poor heavy-infantry who stumble around mountains and forests (and alpines) might possibly survive! :P It's too bad I can't get around to gathering them up with some skirmish support and go take the rich plains south of me, but those are going to be fought over by EVVVERRYYYONNNEEE and I don't want to get involved with that messy catfight. Until / unless I have to.
Helvetia is my next assigned goal, and I think I'm going to arrange for that pronto, since if I take it (or Ysk does), then we'll have a direct corridor to send troops to help MD if he needs it. Speedy (Dalmatia) and Tuna (Bohemia) will have to work at creating their own corridors to us, I think, so we have a travel network for mutual support where necessary.
If I take Helvetia, I'll pretty much need to concentrate on picking up two of the other Germania Superior lowlands (forests) and form the SuperGermy province there as soon as possible. MD (notice he's called "Stropho" on Steam, btw, thus also in the game chat) wasn't going in that direction from his stated plans, and it shouldn't be much in the way of Yskonyn's Marcos. Once I bootstrap them up, I'll be able to expand better into the Alps of Germania Superior with their support, solidifying our control of that part of the Wall; and then if Ysk wants I can hand part of the SuperGermy lowlands over to him (with a short war -- no way to exchange regions in this game otherwise), as long as I can keep the province per se so that the alp regions can help support one another which they'll definitely need!
I suspect that will end my alpine expansion westward, with the Aedui being responsible (probably) for securing the rest over there. Along the way I'll finish out the other two Rhaeti regions (also in the Alps) with support from the rest of the province. That will leave the Alps to my east for Dalmatia and/or Bohemia to work on. (Dalmatia is likely to get there first.) I forget what that provincial area is called, but I don't plan to go after it.
That will pretty well box me in, so I'll focus afterward on upgrading my Alpine aeras (and my supporting lowlands) to be a Wall against southern aggression, and deploying task forces to help allies. That's rather far down the line, but that's my longterm goal.
...I guess if absolutely necessary I might take over Italy someday. Drat, yeah, someone will have to deal with Rome eventually, and that's either going to be me or Dalmatia, apparently. :buck2: (Or both of us?) First, build the wall.
Marco was able to take Meno. Our scouts reported they had spotted a slightly inferior army, but it turned out the sneaky bastards had more men hidden in the forest. Their quick light cavalry managed to single out our great General Flavio and he was slain.
Flavio was our best offensive General. He will get a proper burial ceremony.
I suggest Bohemia to take Sudetia directly East of us. I will go West and claim Agri Decumates, Moenos, Rhenus and North to Berronia, Taunus and Melibocus, which has been proclaimed a focus target for Marco by our great rules Heinrich last turn as well as proclaiming Adrana (west of Cheruscii) as a focus target.
It seems like Cheruscii will be our foremost enemy pretty soon. We call upon Bohemia to form a fist against the North Western aggression.
After the fierce battle for Meno, however, our troops need rest and recuperation. So we will have to focus on enlisting new men and getting our infrastructure going in the next few turns, rather than taking more land.
Ok, our army is getting fit for some conquest next turn. I'll push a little further west.
Our leader has now designated a province of Bohemia as a focus target. How are we going to deal with this?
Quote from: Yskonyn on December 13, 2019, 03:10:14 AM
Ok, our army is getting fit for some conquest next turn. I'll push a little further west.
Our leader has now designated a province of Bohemia as a focus target. How are we going to deal with this?
LOL, we're Allies stop looking at my land!.. You don't HAVE to take objectives, and it is a pain that the AI assigns objectives in your ally's land. Just focus on completing your province, and raising your civ to CIV III. Also move your Army around to regions that it won't starve in (if you're not attacking).
True. My first assigned objective (the game has a list it slavishly adheres to) was the first area you conquered, Ysk, and I'm not going after it.
If necessary, we can work out temporary wars to trade regions off so that we won't be sucking decadence quite as much -- goal regions don't cost decadence and we get progress points for them, which in an alliance game helps everyone by helping each of us get stronger.
Ok, perhaps I am thickheaded, but how do I see which areas are part of a greater province?
Is that the 'Germania Mediterania' designation?
One the top of the mini map.. there is lots of 'filters' for the map.. I think the 1st one in the second row, lets you see the Provinces.. If not.. just hold you're mouse over them and you'll see which one it is.
The other one I use the most, is the one that shows you the revolt risk in the first row, but it actually doesn't do a great job.. so usually look at revolt risk in the 'ledger' or the regions.
Quote from: Yskonyn on December 13, 2019, 09:05:27 AM
Ok, perhaps I am thickheaded, but how do I see which areas are part of a greater province?
Is that the 'Germania Mediterania' designation?
Yep, though it's Meteormania or Metroidvania or something like that. ;) Mediolamia??
I'm not going there in any case.
I can confirm the button showing provinces is the second or third on the bottom row (the row just above the actual minimap). Zoomed in enough they show the names of all the regions instead, but the color-coded groups still show the provinces.
Thanks! That will help!
Regarding "frontage" -- while I was correct about that being in a rollover tooltip, it ISN'T in the map rollover tooltip for a region. You have to click-select the region first, then it's in the rollover of the upper-left icon (about the geography of the region).
Anyway, I'm going for Helvetia next turn, before the Celts get it!
Found the 'frontage' stat, thanks.
My forces were held off by the cunning forest people! I also saw that the target territory only had little food supply. After some recuperation I am going to try on the smaller province to the north east. It should provide a much better supply line at any rate.
Intel is rather sketchy I've found. All battle intel showed a defense of 3 units, but it turns out they always defended with 5.
There may have been two units from a small garrison? The region tooltip doesn't include garrison defense numbers or strength at all.
We're in big trouble meanwhile: the Cheruscii have arrived on my doorstep in a monstrous 95 strength force (after tracing a path down Ysk's western border.)
The only way we currently have a chance to win, is for the Bohemians to come try to concentrate force with us and the Marcomanni. I don't think the Aedui will be able to help: MD is surrounded on all sides and needs all the defense he can muster just to hold off raids.
I'm pulling back from my just-conquered Helvetia victory (leaving a police-force skirmisher behind to help keep peace, and not eat all their food, poor things.) If we're "lucky" (for certain values of "lucky"), the Cherusks will attack me to their south after I leave, and suck famine for a while!
I recommend that you pull back away from them, too, Ysk. Our only hope of survival is that they won't attack and defeat us in detail. If we can provide them with easy conquests (away from MD!), we can draw them into a combined ambush, though that won't be easy to arrange.
Bohemians might consider declaring war on them and start nipping off their backfield toward their capital; however, your only open target is a 1-worker area, where you might starve.
On consideration, we should probably try to concentrate in or near the Marco capital -- it's the only place developed enough on the Cherusk border to possibly feed us all! They aren't at war with anyone (at all) yet, and we don't want to start a war until we can strike with weighted combined effort.
Jason, how did you get yourself into a war with Rome already?
I allied with the Semneons or whatever they're called.
I am good, JP. I don't have any hope of holding out if Arverni comes across my borders. Same goes for Belgae. Given 20 or so turns, I should be in a much better position.
Okay. (I was asking MD if he wanted me to shift over to his area to help protect against his enemies.)
I'll hang out in the Marco capital then, as a rapid-response team in case the Cheruscs go to war: his capital is more exposed and fiscally important to a combined war effort than mine, and far more developed so they can easily feed us. ^-^
I can reach your nearest region in probably three turns if necessary, but that may be too long. I'm slowly building up a border guard at the Germania Superior territory I took recently, in case the Cherusks go for me first, and they might be some help in case your neighbors get frisky: at least they can be on your territory in one turn!
The Celts took the other Super-Germy alpine area I had my eye on for later, but I'm not at all sure I want to go to war with them right now over that mess of a land; I'd be better off integrating my final two (alpine) Rhaeti regions, for which purpose I need more support infrastructure in the lowlands so that'll be a while anyway.
What?! This thread hasn't been updated since December 20th?! INCONCEIVABLE!
I mean, we're chatting quite a bit between turns, but with things happening so quickly in our neck of the woods, we might need this for speedier comms. O:-)
I was gonna sign up for this game as well wish I did :'(
It's pretty frantic. We're not as far along as the Barbarians Arising game, but a lot of craziness north of the alps (and south of them, too). Not nearly as neat as the situation carved by Team North in the BarbyRise game. ;) -- but they've had more time in that one.
Rome has crapped down its leg in the Alpine Wall game. The barbarians will be at each others throats before long ;)
Man, if you say so. Last I saw in the Alpine Wall, Rome had mostly consolidated the boot aside from the Samnites (client state of our Dalmatia player), and had just started wiping out the Semons. They're on the way to the wall. I sure can't stop them! The only question is whether they take a few years to whack the Bois and the Celts first before or after they finish off the Semones (or whatever they're called) -- they're one space away from being on my borders in any case!
The last time I looked, Rome was a handful of disparate Regions. Not anymore. That's alright though. We got this.
We got this! :smitten:
Oh. :-"
Dang, that was a clutch win for Ysk and I in defending Marcoman against the Cherusks. The good news from that side is, at least they're also at war with the Helvetiis!
Speaking of, glad to see you take the Helv capital, MD! I'm still hanging in with defending your Beronian region, but if the Cherusks come for me they have enough military power now to make me just a speed bump. I'll stay camped as long as I can!
Meanwhile, Rome just went to war with Dalmatia and thus with the rest of us.
I am not recalling where exactly you are talking about, JP. Beronia? One way or another, I should be ok for the moment. Defend where it suits you best.
Its great to see the Helvs being under threat from almost all sides! We should be able to wipe them out if we keep the pressure up.
Meanwhile the Cherusks are pretty angry! They have raided along my border . I am super glad Jason's army is still around while my spearhead went for Helv's provinces. Thanks buddy!
I am a little worried about the Rome situation, however. I don't think we can use an enemy in our backside at this time...
Quote from: MetalDog on February 08, 2020, 12:00:28 AM
I am not recalling where exactly you are talking about, JP. Beronia? One way or another, I should be ok for the moment. Defend where it suits you best.
No, sorry, that was an editing glitch on my part, accidentally combining congratulations to you for hitting the Helv capital, with a continuation of discussion about defending Marco territory.
I just made peace with Helvetii. I need to take out Gallii. They have two of my Objectives. Just can't afford to have war at opposite ends of my empire. Defending Rome takes precedence. I just spent 100 Legacy Points to Emergency Levy troops to my capitol. Hopefully my infrastructure can handle paying for them. Pretty sure it's this game, but, it may not be. I'm in three of them and each is a different country in almost the same space.
Understandable. I would have preferred not to go to war with them either, but they DoW'd me (and thus us all), so...
I may try to peace out with the Chesks if they're still offering, but I'm unsure if the game would allow me to defend Ysk's region if I did. :(
Due to Mom having had a small stroke back on Saturday, she'll be in rehab for at least two weeks, and not back to work for at least three, so my workload has jumped RATHER SHARPLY to say the least. ;) (Including double-extra training for the new owners of our family's small factory, who are not remotely ready to take the wheel yet.)
This currently won't affect two of my FoG:Emp multiplayer games, including this one. But I'm sending an alert that this could potentially happen later. (I'll be resigning from Devoncorps' mp game, but that one is almost finished anyway; and some other timeclocked mp games.)
(Also won't affect my Barbarian Arise mp game, yet.)
I appreciate the heads-up, Jason. Sounds like you have some managing and most likely some rough weather ahead, but you'll get through! We'll be here regardless, so don't worry about the games. Real life obviously has priority. Take care!
I may have to run my turn before I hear back (I've got less than a day, and I'll likely be out of pocket all day tomorrow and tomorrow night with work and then Mom at the hospital).
But since I have a slight excess in metal right now, if anyone would like some let me know!
Crikey, everything's a boiling mess now! :D
Re Rome's new superstack: we can't fight that, Speedy (yet, MD is on the way), but we may be able to chase down the weak Celtic army, if we get a turn for my troops to re-establish.
Re Celticbase: I've got a mess of Celtic rebels in my backfield that someone (possibly me) needs to deal with pronto; part of my force is heading over to my final remaining Rhaeti region to defend that, so maybe that problem will sort-of take care of itself. My mountain assault army (which is frankly not balanced well for mountains, but I can only use what I've got) has finished out the SuperGermy province (for whatever that's worth), and is on the way eastward to the first nearby Rhaeti alpine region. BUT, assuming that works okay, we can head south next turn for a joint attack with the Aedui on the Celtic home base.
My Semen allies (....I really don't know how to spell their names) have been mooching off me in the backfield, but they managed to spawn an emergency army back in, on top of their former capital, taking that back from the Celts. Hopefully the AI will do something intelligent that won't ruin us: they shouldn't attack us anyway, but they may decide to camp out and eat our food. Worse would be if they go after regions which should belong to one of us, since I'm in no position to negotiate much with them. They may become enemies soon -- but I hope they consolidate their armies before then, or we'll have an enemy army in our backfield again! #:-)
Rome is a big problem, especially for Speedy over in Dalmatia, but we'll have to team up some forces to kick them out together, and then transact regions back over to Dalmatia (or to whomever).
I can't even begin to parse what's happening with Ysk and Tuna up there! -- hope y'all are sorting things out! Not least because any help on The Wall would be appreciated. :dreamer:
I am besieging a third Celticii Region. My relief army is moving into one Rhaeti region to join my besieging army. If we can get out of that, I will head east. As an aside, your Senones keep raiding my capitol, JP. Probably best to keep them as a Client for right now, but, I am going to whoop the dog out of them when this is over.
The problem is that they aren't a client. I have tried to no avail. You have my full permission to destroy them as they die (as long as you have someone nearby to deal with any secondary army in my backfield.)
Okay, let's see:
Re Celtica: since Ysk's Marcos were able to nix the rampaging indie Celts in my backfield, I'm redirecting my Rhaeti Reclamation Force to go help with the siege of Celticii's capital region. Relatedly, I've set up a way for Ysk to transfer the recovered Rhaeti area back to my control at his convenience.
Re Semones: I've canceled my alliance with them, which will eject them from hanging out in my lands eating my food; MD's Aedui can War on them at your convenience. Relatedly, I see you've got a good stack waiting to hit them in my SuperGermy province capital. I recommend you right click on them to follow them around and whack them!
Re recovering Rhaeti province: I've got a developing heavy stack with support setting up behind the mountains to travel through and get my plains back. Heavies stumble in mountain and forest terrain, so they aren't very useful most places around here! -- but I'm looking ahead to transition them over down south to help rebuff Rome eventually, once I find a good way for them to cross the alps.
Re Rome: Speedy in Dalmatia is in a bad situation, with his capital sieged by a decent Roman stack, while another Roman stack hangs out nearby too strong to ignore and also too strong for us to beat yet. The local Celtic stack bounced off us, and I sort of recommend we continue camping in this region together for mutual security for a while until help arrives. We can't save your capital, I'm afraid, but we may be able to avenge and reclaim it, if we can hold out five or six more years/turns. Our alliance is pulling together an Avenger team in that direction, which should be strong enough for us to throw Rome completely out, hand your regions back over, and then... well, ideally we need to get rid of Rome as a power altogether, but probably we'll try to sue for peace for a while so we can all recover and start up again later.
Hm, Tuna (Bohemia) just realized that Ysk (Marcomanni) went idle. Hope he's personally doing okay! -- but even an allied AI can screw with us badly in our plans to recover and stabilize our alpine wall (front and back) and help Dalmatia.
I am ok and back at the helm! >:D
I am sorry, but work has been crazy these past two weeks with the Corona chaos. I see my handover to the AI caused some... interesting developments... sorry. :)
No problem, just glad you're safe! -- and the AI did all right, nothing we can't easily adjust with a human at the controls. O:-)
Ok so Rome just offered peace demanding I disband 90% of my army and relinquish my objective in Savus.
I'm going to accept as if I understand the new mechanism correctly I should get all the territory they have taken back.
I have not been in that situation so I can neither confirm or deny that. Anyone else have some insight? Or is the deed already done and Speedy can tell us?
As far as I have been able to tell, such things will NOT get all your territory back. It just keeps them from being harassed for ten turns while they consolidate your new territory, and it keeps them from harassing you since they can't attack you farther and take more of your territory for a while.
It might however still be for the best, if you don't have an army worth anything anymore -- 90% of almost nothing doesn't lose you much in that case! -- and the rest of us can still come in and whap them, recovering your regions and provinces. Then once you rest up, you can rejoin the throng.
Meanwhile, MD and I am sieging the Celtic capital, and they brought their remaining stack in to help try to save it, so we should be able to cap them all. That will leave two Celtic areas, one of which is my capital (next on my list of recoveries).
The Sems teleported across the map to get to their home capital, after I told them to forget alliance with me. MD's Aedui should be able to mop them up and out, on the way to the last Celtic region -- all this is part of Cisalpina, so he'll get a nice province out of it. (The Celts and Semones buffed up those areas great.)
My two heavy-inf task forces are hanging out until they have a more direct target, one of them holding down the fort (or lack thereof) in one of Speedy's two currently remaining regions. It could easily be another three turns until my other forces get there to help, maybe four turns for MD -- he has a much shorter path, but there are more roadblocks in the way. Once I open up a friendly route through the Alps however, Ysk's task force is ready to go (assuming his neighbors to the north don't get frisky meanwhile). Unsure what's happening with Tuna, but he's still reconsolidating after a(nother) massive rebellion so I doubt he can send anything for a while (and he may need to help guard the north anyway, including Ysk's areas.)
Edited to add: if anyone has some spare manpower, I'm at 7 and running -1. I have plenty of metal for trade, over 300! (In this area of the world, of course, metal isn't worth as much since heavy infs are much less useful thanks to the forests and mountains and alps.)
Quote from: Yskonyn on March 22, 2020, 04:18:03 PM
I am ok and back at the helm! >:D
I am sorry, but work has been crazy these past two weeks with the Corona chaos. I see my handover to the AI caused some... interesting developments... sorry. :)
So, did you stale out again to the AI? The current moves have been... odd. Also you still haven't handed back some of our reclaimed regions (including mine).
Well peace treaty with Rome worked as i got all the territory they took back, now for the Celticii and those damn rebels.
Sorry chaps . I keep forgetting.
What needs to be done concretely and I'll fix it next turn.
Either accepting our transactions to give us back our regions; or setting up transactions to give us back our regions.
Also, you've got your own Celtic rebellion to worry about next turn, but we should all be in position soon to come help with that.
I just took Rhaetia, Jason. Be glad to give it back next turn if the rules allow.
Accepted your trade. Rhaetia will be whole again.
Yeah, I'm hopefully picking up another piece of Dalmatia for Speedy soon, and my last alpine part of Rhaetia. Then I've got a Rhaetia backfield region (which has lots of potential AS THE ONLY THING NOT IN A FOREST OR A MOUNTAIN! :buck2: ) After that, Rhaetia will be complete. And I'll probably be a core set of provinces after that, since I'll be surrounded by allies on all sides! -- once I get things stabilized I can help send task forces to crisis areas on allied borders. (And help guard the wall, of course. Maybe I'll be able to expand along the alps eastward...?)
Right now the next probable disaster is Ysk's Marcomanni having their own Celtic rebellion. I'll be able to help out a little immediately (and moreso within a few turns), but Tuna and I will also both have to be careful about them spreading out into our areas!
I saw that! Celticii kicked my ass in their last Region. I am licking my wounds and building more troops. I still need to smoke out the Boii and Senones. But they take a backseat to helping Yskonyn. I still have to take Celticii's last stronghold then I am on my way, too.
Okay, I took my former capital back, so that should give your stack in Carnia a way to get back into action, MD.
I'm unsure now whether ignoring the Bois is a good idea -- if we save Ysk sooner but get ruined in the process, we all might lose! I'll hold off doing my turn as far as I can, but do you recommend coming off the alps against their unguarded new capital, in a pincer movement, and seeing if we can provoke their last remaining stack to come fight us?
Well, I was running out of gameclock, so I hope you got one of my messages and went to help a combined hit on the Bois capital -- but either you didn't get the message, or your game staled out and the AI didn't care to go, so my stack got completely slaughtered without touching them. ::)
We'll have to try again some other time.
I am sorry fellas. I have some RL stuff going on and I don't have much desire to continue my part in the PBEMs right now. I know that makes it more difficult on the rest of you and I apologize.
Take care over there man!
On the bright side, we all knew our survival would be a great challenge and I feel we have done quite well overall!
My land lies in turmoil with infighting and a negative bank account, so I am not sure how many more turns I can last.
Do we continue this to see where it end or do we consider our experiment done by now? (Happy either way!)
God's strength and honor to you MD! You've certainly done well in this game, and in helping us, too, so far! (Be sure to drop a similar note on the "Barbarians Arise" game, too.)
I'm okay with continuing, but with the Aedui on AI going forward it'll be harder to coordinate things. And with Ysk's crew about to go out of the game altogether, that leaves only three of us. Not sure we can survive the pressures around us in that case...
Say, MD, before you drop out of your games, could you hop in one more time to distribute your regions and provinces to other players?
I can give it a shot. Not sure how successful I will be, but I'll try.
:notworthy:
Eh, well, MD has gone to idle with the AI in control, and no regions or provinces parceled out, so we're even more on our own now. He's definitely the winner in strength among us, although currently Dalmatia (Speedy) is #1 of all factions on Legacy! :clap:
Ysk, I recommend you follow into my regions (where there's more food for your troops) into Vindalacia, where we'll be in position to team up on the superstack currently murdering Tuna's Bohemia.
Tuna, you should bring your own stack down south nearby, where we can all get in on the stomp together, and put an end to this nonsense, get you your regions back, and then turn around to mow up the remaining Celtic rebel regions to get Ysk his regions back.
Good idea. Ill move them.
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 28, 2020, 09:01:03 PM
although currently Dalmatia (Speedy) is #1 of all factions on Legacy! :clap:
Quick call the game, I win!
Poor Tuna's land fell apart again under rebels. :'( And the Bois have now taken almost all of Rhaeti, except for the parts taken by MD's former Aedui. ;) At least the Aeduian superstate is allied with us, but without being able to really reason with someone in charge there we could have a fatal number of problems dogpiling us that can't be resolved.
Still, I'm trying to get rid of the local Bois superstack and take back one area anyway; then help Ysk.
Lololol! -- the Bois superstack decided they didn't want to live anymore, and has committed delayed suicide by invading the Aeudi! :2funny:
I'll delay as long as I can (the turn just started), but Ysk, can you get your stack over to Hercynia (or however it's spelled), your former capital, in one turn? If so, we can team up and put the stomp on the withering celtic rebel stack there who has been mismanaging your region. Once that's done, we can mop your other regions back in, and then turn to helping Tuna (who has a little more land to trade for time).
I already did one unsuccessful attack. Their garrison is 25 odd strong.
Due to food problem I shifted my stack SW.
Perhaps I can still make it in one turn otherwise it'll be 2.
Quote from: Yskonyn on May 06, 2020, 01:43:52 AM
I already did one unsuccessful attack. Their garrison is 25 odd strong.
Due to food problem I shifted my stack SW.
Perhaps I can still make it in one turn otherwise it'll be 2.
Let's call it 2 turns then to be safe. So you can move into position this turn, and then next turn we'll send marching orders to go in together.
Ok this coming turn I can move. Turn after that I can attack.
Just ended my turn (clock rolls over tomorrow sometime). I'm poised and ready to go -- though the Aedui AI may beat us to it! (Or may collapse upon the Bois like a black hole of vengeance, leaving us to deal with your rebels.)
Tuna is reconquering his area pretty well, good job!
If you're having trouble with some regions of a whole province, Tuna, hand them over to one of us to manage for a while, so they won't drag down your other efforts, and then once we've gotten them stabilized we'll hand them back. (I've done this for Blucher/Comte in the other Grogheads game, Barbarians Arise, and after the second time he hasn't had any problems in those areas since.)
Lets hit em!
Man, your force got mauled, Ysk.
Fortunately (sort of?) the enemy split off a force to go raid land from Tuna before we arrived. So while your side soaked a lot of damage, we whittled down the rebels to the point where I feel relatively confident sending my troops in again this turn. You might need to rest tho! (Obviously if I win, I'll hand over the region asap.)
Okay, so -- I know Tuna (Bohemia) is in bad shape, and Ysk (Marcomen) is even worse. Unsure about Speedy (Dalmatia), I forgot to scroll over there this past turn.
At this point, as previously noted, our only hope to survive and thrive as a group is to become client states of Rome asap. We can always rebel against Rome later once we repair our situations, and we don't even have to send them tribute or whatever. It just limits some of our diplomatic options.
BUT -- if anyone would rather ripcord out instead, I totally understand. O:-) All I ask is that you donate your regions and resources to other players before you go. The fastest way would be to do a transaction where you offer to absorb your nation into another player's; that way that player gets everything including your current troops (though I'm unsure he'll get all your resources, so manually send those over, too.) This is the simplest way, but the drawback is only one other player gets to benefit, and it might be fairer to spread out the wealth. (Note that it may not be possible to send anything to me because I'm a client state right now! -- especially if you're at war with Rome.)
I'll client to Rome and keep playing for a few turns to see what happens.
But I doubt it will be a deal Marco could ever get out of again.
Sorry things have gone to hell for your team, Ysk.
When you go, absorb your nation into Tuna's Bohemia. He can pick up three of the MeridioGerman regions on top of that and form a province. (Maybe. I've noticed that the new patch/upgrade has RADICALLY increased the ground troops for indies in most places. I might be the only player who could feasibly form a province, but I don't think you can offer to absorb your nation into mine or cede regions etc. But maybe I can work something out with Tuna there.)
By the way, don't forget you have THREE regions, Ysk! -- and two of those could easily be given to Tuna's Bohemia (on its eastern side).
I am sorry, but I have surrendered. Didn't think about Tuna... dumb, sorry.
It was a fun ride however!
I think Tuna and Speedy both just surrendered by absolving their nations to each other. I'll let you know how that turns out!
Meanwhile, the Marcomanni are coming back like they were rebuilt with nuclear powered bionics.
With MD's undead Aedui being the only other 'player' in the game, I've surrendered to free up some time budget on other things, even though under the circumstances I wasn't doing badly (though not nearly as good as the Aedui, who were a solid winner in Legacy when I left.)
Thanks for the experiment in running the Alpine Wall with me! Let me know if anyone wants to start over now that the new patch has included various new things like regional decisions.
It was a pleasure, JP!