I know there is a thread somewhere around here about the rebirth of Microprose, but I can't seem to locate it.
In any event, a recent twitter post seems to have clues about two projects in the works, and boy is it exciting news...well, I'll let you see for yourself.
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84055101_156397002446182_5013955232351125504_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=BKjX7G7hM8gAX9tLLZE&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=5ca19fca2c7ca3ef2f7d92bde90e21ab&oe=5E938E9B)
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83335302_156397022446180_1371929175589388288_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=UNSzzi7qyMAAX9S05X0&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=ed9856214935b6ed880617fa1fd09489&oe=5E982743)
I would love a tank game that fits somewhere between Arma3's 'splodey tanks and Steel Beast's sim. Both are great in their own right, but god do I want a dynamic campaign and crew management.
Glorious rebirth of M1 Tank Platoon?
Seems almost too good to be true.
We can only hope. I tend to agree with hellfish that there is a place in this world for an updated M-1 Tank Platoon.
Quote from: DoctorQuest on January 27, 2020, 03:23:51 PM
We can only hope. I tend to agree with hellfish that there is a place in this world for an updated M-1 Tank Platoon.
Oh yeah! One of my favorites!
Microprose used to put out some great stuff.
I also used to love everything MicroProse put out back in the day. The golden age of computer gaming.
Now I hate to be that one guy, the kibitzer if you will, that says be careful what you wish for. If MicroProse does indeed rise from the ashes like some golden phoenix I hope that the mindset of the developers, or whoever will be in charge, is one from the early '90s who remembers the core components of the classics that attracted so many of us like moths to the flame.
Modern day business people are all about milking nostalgia for every dime it's worth while delivering a product that absolutely disappoints in every way imaginable.
I'm a little concerned by their existing project (https://corporate-ient.com/warbirds-2020/). It looks like it would have been modern in 1996. But they're also somehow associated with Titan IM (http://titanim.net/www/index.php/page) which could be promising...
I'm gonna temper my enthusiasm for now.
^ In the old thread JH mentioned, this is why there was skepticism.
What's wanted is exactly what was mentioned above, mid-range sims with robust single player and dynamic campaigns with management options. There's a serious gap in the market for games like that, Microprose used to fill it along with some of the other classics like Dynamix and Spectrum Holobyte.
If Microprose returns I want it to be that, not just a new iteration of Warbirds.
Man, my favorite games for my Commodore 64 were microprose sims. First one was F-15 Strike Eagle (5 years before there was a strike Eagle too), played Gunship! And F-19 stealth fighter to death. Great campaigns
Man I played gunship to death too, I almost joined the army just to fly apaches cause I loved that game so much.
As long as, unlike the game "tank crew", infantry are faithfully portrayed in any tank game they bring out.
Quote from: W8taminute on January 27, 2020, 04:10:32 PM
I also used to love everything MicroProse put out back in the day. The golden age of computer gaming.
Now I hate to be that one guy, the kibitzer if you will, that says be careful what you wish for. If MicroProse does indeed rise from the ashes like some golden phoenix I hope that the mindset of the developers, or whoever will be in charge, is one from the early '90s who remembers the core components of the classics that attracted so many of us like moths to the flame.
Modern day business people are all about milking nostalgia for every dime it's worth while delivering a product that absolutely disappoints in every way imaginable.
I'll join you as the other guy.
Surely this new venture is as close to being Microprose as having Ringo team up with an X Factor winner and calling themselves The Beatles.
I mean its great to see someone building sims but it's not Microprose, that era's gone forever. There are still great games around, but the 80s/90s are over, and no amount of nostalgia, 'spiritual successors' or rebrands can bring them back.... or make me 20 again :)
Man alive did I love Microprose back in the day.
Is that a B-17 I see? I have been thinking more and more recently that a solid B-17 sim is a gold mine just waiting to be prospected. Maybe I'll do it in retirement if nobody else does.
It's a long story, not sure if I am allowed to say much more. But to summarize it: the guy who bought back the Microprose brand is a fine, talented lad and he's been hard at work. :)
Regarding the connection to Titan IM - well, they're the same team. As such, that's sort of the nice thing about it, for they don't rely on the commercial games sales to survive. The chap does it because he feels like doing it. He's a MPS old-timer like you, like me, who feels he couldn't leave this name of glory-past further in the darkness and in the mud. The fact he got it back from the clutches of Atari and started rebuilding around says much about his motivation. And regarding Warbirds, the fact that he offered Wild Bill to help him in his project, whatever you might think of the project proper, is a sign of his kindness & dedication to the legacy of the brand.
At the very least it is good for karma and touching, if anything, and it makes it worth it. O0
Quote from: dinsdale on January 28, 2020, 12:45:57 AM
Quote from: W8taminute on January 27, 2020, 04:10:32 PM
I also used to love everything MicroProse put out back in the day. The golden age of computer gaming.
Now I hate to be that one guy, the kibitzer if you will, that says be careful what you wish for. If MicroProse does indeed rise from the ashes like some golden phoenix I hope that the mindset of the developers, or whoever will be in charge, is one from the early '90s who remembers the core components of the classics that attracted so many of us like moths to the flame.
Modern day business people are all about milking nostalgia for every dime it's worth while delivering a product that absolutely disappoints in every way imaginable.
I'll join you as the other guy.
Surely this new venture is as close to being Microprose as having Ringo team up with an X Factor winner and calling themselves The Beatles.
I mean its great to see someone building sims but it's not Microprose, that era's gone forever. There are still great games around, but the 80s/90s are over, and no amount of nostalgia, 'spiritual successors' or rebrands can bring them back.... or make me 20 again :)
Yes! Those times can't be brought back again. That sums up my feelings and why I said what I said.
To be 20 again is another thing that will never happen either but oh if it only could be true.
All that said, don't be the Pete Best of this thread!
Quote from: W8taminute on January 28, 2020, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: dinsdale on January 28, 2020, 12:45:57 AM
Quote from: W8taminute on January 27, 2020, 04:10:32 PM
I also used to love everything MicroProse put out back in the day. The golden age of computer gaming.
Now I hate to be that one guy, the kibitzer if you will, that says be careful what you wish for. If MicroProse does indeed rise from the ashes like some golden phoenix I hope that the mindset of the developers, or whoever will be in charge, is one from the early '90s who remembers the core components of the classics that attracted so many of us like moths to the flame.
Modern day business people are all about milking nostalgia for every dime it's worth while delivering a product that absolutely disappoints in every way imaginable.
I'll join you as the other guy.
Surely this new venture is as close to being Microprose as having Ringo team up with an X Factor winner and calling themselves The Beatles.
I mean its great to see someone building sims but it's not Microprose, that era's gone forever. There are still great games around, but the 80s/90s are over, and no amount of nostalgia, 'spiritual successors' or rebrands can bring them back.... or make me 20 again :)
Yes! Those times can't be brought back again. That sums up my feelings and why I said what I said.
To be 20 again is another thing that will never happen either but oh if it only could be true.
Surely you can recreate the style and playability of the old games? New games are often soulless in my opinion.
and bring back manuals :)
Quote from: FlickJax on January 28, 2020, 10:45:05 AM
Quote from: W8taminute on January 28, 2020, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: dinsdale on January 28, 2020, 12:45:57 AM
Quote from: W8taminute on January 27, 2020, 04:10:32 PM
I also used to love everything MicroProse put out back in the day. The golden age of computer gaming.
Now I hate to be that one guy, the kibitzer if you will, that says be careful what you wish for. If MicroProse does indeed rise from the ashes like some golden phoenix I hope that the mindset of the developers, or whoever will be in charge, is one from the early '90s who remembers the core components of the classics that attracted so many of us like moths to the flame.
Modern day business people are all about milking nostalgia for every dime it's worth while delivering a product that absolutely disappoints in every way imaginable.
I'll join you as the other guy.
Surely this new venture is as close to being Microprose as having Ringo team up with an X Factor winner and calling themselves The Beatles.
I mean its great to see someone building sims but it's not Microprose, that era's gone forever. There are still great games around, but the 80s/90s are over, and no amount of nostalgia, 'spiritual successors' or rebrands can bring them back.... or make me 20 again :)
Yes! Those times can't be brought back again. That sums up my feelings and why I said what I said.
To be 20 again is another thing that will never happen either but oh if it only could be true.
Surely you can recreate the style and playability of the old games? New games are often soulless in my opinion.
and bring back manuals :)
I have to agree Flick, I think the biggest issue most developers have nowadays is they don't ask the question "is my game fun?"
Sure modern games look great but at the end of the day if they are not fun then why bother?
Quote from: Destraex on January 28, 2020, 12:07:06 AM
As long as, unlike the game "tank crew", infantry are faithfully portrayed in any tank game they bring out.
So easily done - tread lube.
Quote from: FlickJax on January 28, 2020, 10:45:05 AM
and bring back manuals :)
....manual what? Like, manual targeting? Flipping switches manually?
I just hope they provide a good set of instructions so that we don't have to troll all over the internet to find out how to play the dang game.
^-^
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 27, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
^ In the old thread JH mentioned, this is why there was skepticism.
What's wanted is exactly what was mentioned above, mid-range sims with robust single player and dynamic campaigns with management options. There's a serious gap in the market for games like that, Microprose used to fill it along with some of the other classics like Dynamix and Spectrum Holobyte.
If Microprose returns I want it to be that, not just a new iteration of Warbirds.
Amen, dude.
Quote from: The_Admiral on January 28, 2020, 02:52:47 AM
It's a long story, not sure if I am allowed to say much more. But to summarize it: the guy who bought back the Microprose brand is a fine, talented lad and he's been hard at work. :)
Regarding the connection to Titan IM - well, they're the same team. As such, that's sort of the nice thing about it, for they don't rely on the commercial games sales to survive. The chap does it because he feels like doing it. He's a MPS old-timer like you, like me, who feels he couldn't leave this name of glory-past further in the darkness and in the mud. The fact he got it back from the clutches of Atari and started rebuilding around says much about his motivation. And regarding Warbirds, the fact that he offered Wild Bill to help him in his project, whatever you might think of the project proper, is a sign of his kindness & dedication to the legacy of the brand.
At the very least it is good for karma and touching, if anything, and it makes it worth it. O0
I'm keeping the faith, just keeping my expectations managed. My gaming future belongs to guys like you and Julhelm and your teams who want to make games that you also want to play.
I'm with Toonces. I want a B-17 simulator! Daylight bombing with the B-17 is my preference but the Ploesti raid with B-24's or night bombing with Lancasters would also be acceptable. I want a study sim like A2A's B-17 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCLMgLB9Qlo&list=PL6Nwvba2ytZhHGA0r8WhjeM6dwzpVUYHG&index=1) but I want it in a combat environment like DCS or IL-2 Bodenplatte not Microsoft's Flight Simulator and I want a campaign like in Microprose's B-17 Flying Fortress: The Mighty 8th (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV6qAKzfD-icnl7cMeIR_ldvH6twjQdtI).
I don't want much, do I? ::)
Quote from: hellfish6 on January 28, 2020, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: The_Admiral on January 28, 2020, 02:52:47 AM
It's a long story, not sure if I am allowed to say much more. But to summarize it: the guy who bought back the Microprose brand is a fine, talented lad and he's been hard at work. :)
Regarding the connection to Titan IM - well, they're the same team. As such, that's sort of the nice thing about it, for they don't rely on the commercial games sales to survive. The chap does it because he feels like doing it. He's a MPS old-timer like you, like me, who feels he couldn't leave this name of glory-past further in the darkness and in the mud. The fact he got it back from the clutches of Atari and started rebuilding around says much about his motivation. And regarding Warbirds, the fact that he offered Wild Bill to help him in his project, whatever you might think of the project proper, is a sign of his kindness & dedication to the legacy of the brand.
At the very least it is good for karma and touching, if anything, and it makes it worth it. O0
I'm keeping the faith, just keeping my expectations managed. My gaming future belongs to guys like you and Julhelm and your teams who want to make games that you also want to play.
And you'd be right to be careful to wait for more tokens of dedication from them, it's the natural, sane thing to do :)
Thank you for your kind words - still, for now, what I have seen from Microprose (disclaimer: I have seen more than what you people have, but I can't really talk about it beyond these mere few words ;) ) proves that they're showing the same sort of passion for the MPS legacy as Julhelm and myself have been showing so far. And by that we mean the original 90s Microprose, not the "button-pushing Falcon 4-Microprose" (that is more like just Spectrum Holobyte, F4 being really a special item in the line). In all honesty, if you want Falcon 5.0, it is on its way of being made quite nicely enough by DCS. You don't get the dynamic campaign, I get it, but you get the plane and a reasonable amount of stuff for the theater and good old fashioned action. Same if you're dreaming of having Fleet Defender redone, or Jane's F-15 and F-18: Heatblur & the others took care of that, really. Today MPS F-15 II if redone would be seens a little more than a shoot 'em up, really, and F-15 III was an early foray into hardcore sim gaming that lived on with the famed Origins Skunk Works team.
The success of Cold Waters, which is pretty much Redstorm Rising remastered, shows that there's no reason to change the gameplay of successful recipes. Although in both cases - TFA & Sea Power - his team and ours are going a bit off in order to offer new, innovative gameplay, we will stay faithful to the spirit that made you play Microprose and SSI games back in the day: strong historical, technical flavor, intuitive interface and mechanics, the kind of mix that gives you the feeling you're actually down there in the air, on the bridge or in the sea. So far what I have seen with Microprose is that they're on that sort of page too, and this is fine. Il-2 and DCS already firmly holds the high ground on hi-fidelity, hi-tech stuff and this is not what we - or what they - are after. Immersion comes first, realism will be a by product of the mix we achieve with gameplay.
Ah Red Storm Rising. The game that finally make me go out and get a computer.
Brilliant game.
Problem is, once you go high fidelity in sims it's hard to go back...why can't we have both ....... better gameplay focus with high fidelity.
I will say that sim lite can be cool if there's something deep built onto it like Battle of Britain Wings of Victory. A strategy game built onto a sim lite was really fun and did the best at depicting the period.
With respect to sims, although I definitely prefer high-fidelity, I can still enjoy something less than near authentic modeling and fully clickable cockpits provided the air of authenticity and realism is there, as at it was with the old Tank Platoon, Gunship, etc. titles. My biggest concern is will I be able to enjoy them if the are non-VR? I've found that when it comes to sims, I will almost always go to VR over traditional 2d. The experience is just that much more satisfying.
Quote from: Toonces on January 28, 2020, 01:48:16 AM
Man alive did I love Microprose back in the day.
Is that a B-17 I see? I have been thinking more and more recently that a solid B-17 sim is a gold mine just waiting to be prospected. Maybe I'll do it in retirement if nobody else does.
Have you flown the A2A one? Too bad that is not in IL2!
Quote from: Skoop on January 29, 2020, 04:44:07 PM
Problem is, once you go high fidelity in sims it's hard to go back...why can't we have both ....... better gameplay focus with high fidelity.
Well, simply because... you can't ;)
The latest updates by Jason Williams on Il-2 illustrate the conundrum at hand. Go for hi-fidelity stuff, then your options are limited: each aircraft requires a superb amount of work & research, and you have to settle for self-contained theaters. We're not talking Il-2 1946 here.
The situation DCS is all the more telling, especially when it comes to the WW2 modules. You have to choose between getting a war, or getting 4 planes over a limited area (although the Normandy map ain't bad at all). And although Il-2 does its best to offer a proper single-player experience with a career engine in addition to linear campaigns with a narration of quality, DCS doesn't even try that considering WW2 is not the actual priority focus - all for the best reasons.
Resources are not finite. What you invest in hi-fidelity planes are resources you cannot bring to the actual "game" part. What would you choose between getting Cold Waters now, and Sea Power in a year or so maybe, and waiting another 15 years for Sonalysts to release a top notch 688I or Seawolf simulator?
Mind you, I don't exclude anything. I love both, for entirely different reasons. But if I were a hardcore sim gamer, I wouldn't bully myself in not indulging in a mid-level sim just because it will never be as advanced as another game that doesn't exist yet, and might very well never see the light of day. ;)
On the other hand, we're making a real-time wargame in a low-tech environment, so by nature we can allow ourselves to be more hardcore than what came before, and still accessible & rather intuitive. That's the difference between a platform simulator and a command simulation in this era - no training could prepare a flag officer to air ops in 1942 anyway, and anybody (with relative success) can go around clicking around giving orders with some historical culture of the era and gaming habits. But would you feel at ease operating a hardcore Mk37 gun director without any prior training or a thick manual to explain your job to you? Not so sure about that :coolsmiley:
I don't have time for a high-fidelity sim. Unlike college, when I had time and I'd learn Falcon 4.0 with that 1000-page manual on my lap, I free maybe 1-2 hours a night and a few more on the weekends. I can't spend that much time learning a high-fidelity game no matter how much I'd like it. I'm still struggling just to remember how to fly the Su-25 in DCS. God help me if I want to jump to another aircraft and start the process all over again.
So I play Strike Fighters 2 or War Thunder a lot know. I get to know the plane/tank without having to memorize how to start the engine or tweak my fuel mixture. I love survey sims, not study sims.
+1
.....and CFS3/IL-2 1946 with and without mods for my WWII jones.
(Corrected....thanks JH...)
Quote from: DoctorQuest on January 30, 2020, 04:07:58 PM
+1
.....and CFS3/IL-2 1942 with and without mods for my WWII jones.
its 1946...IL-2 1946. You should try the BAT mod though. Its really amazing what they have done. 100 years of aviation content in there.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 30, 2020, 04:16:30 PM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on January 30, 2020, 04:07:58 PM
+1
.....and CFS3/IL-2 1942 with and without mods for my WWII jones.
its 1946...IL-2 1946. You should try the BAT mod though. Its really amazing what they have done. 100 years of aviation content in there.
I have it and love it. Takes a while to download but it is worth it. The new install processes are a great improvement as well. Another cool thing I figured out is GOG actually has a separate download for the EXACT patch level needed for BAT. (At least they used to...)
Quote from: The_Admiral on January 30, 2020, 01:02:03 AM
Quote from: Skoop on January 29, 2020, 04:44:07 PM
Problem is, once you go high fidelity in sims it's hard to go back...why can't we have both ....... better gameplay focus with high fidelity.
Well, simply because... you can't ;)
The latest updates by Jason Williams on Il-2 illustrate the conundrum at hand. Go for hi-fidelity stuff, then your options are limited: each aircraft requires a superb amount of work & research, and you have to settle for self-contained theaters. We're not talking Il-2 1946 here.
The situation DCS is all the more telling, especially when it comes to the WW2 modules. You have to choose between getting a war, or getting 4 planes over a limited area (although the Normandy map ain't bad at all). And although Il-2 does its best to offer a proper single-player experience with a career engine in addition to linear campaigns with a narration of quality, DCS doesn't even try that considering WW2 is not the actual priority focus - all for the best reasons.
Resources are not finite. What you invest in hi-fidelity planes are resources you cannot bring to the actual "game" part. What would you choose between getting Cold Waters now, and Sea Power in a year or so maybe, and waiting another 15 years for Sonalysts to release a top notch 688I or Seawolf simulator?
That's actually pretty interesting, because I can swear I remember Il-2 BoS being pitched as a lower-fidelity continuation of the original Il-2 lineage whereas Il-2 CLOD was too hi-fidedlity to be economically viable.
Oh well, there's still the idea floating around that CloD was deeper for a few things - IIRC engine management and damage model, maybe? But since then, yeah, they pretty much made this "economically viable" topic their own. They went full speed ahead with the fidelity argument now, it seems.
Fortunately, gameplay-wise, that's still a WW2 warbird, you don't need to read 100 pages of manual to understand how to fly it - to master it is another story of course :knuppel2:
I like both high and low fidelity sims honestly.
I don't really want Microprose to go back to the F-19 days where realism took a major back seat to approachability, but I would like to find a sim maker that hits a happy middle.
Thirdwire hit that decently with Strike Fighters 2, but they didn't really continue to develop it. I think they'd be a good starting place for what I'd like to see from a new Microprose.
Everyone's right, the high fidelity market is very supported by DCS and IL-2 and I love both. But just like hellfish and Dr. Quest said, I don't really have the time to spend an entire day flying one mission. The days I do get where I can, I do it, but they're few and far inbetween as a guy in my 40's as opposed to the High School me that played Falcon 3.0.
And honestly, I just want some GAME in my sim. I love the dynamic campaigns, I love immersion, I love to insert myself into a world and load up something that's going to be different each time.
Man, that's why I loved Gunship, F-15, F-19, Task Force 1942 and M1 Tank Platoon 2. It's something that's lacking in the high fidelity market. I know for some just flying the aircraft is the fun, and for me sometimes it is too. But I really want a world to throw myself into, take four hours out of a day off and get in a couple of missions with some context. Something like I used to do back in the day with the Dynamix sims.
I hope new Microprose will scratch that itch. I know that IL-2 and even DCS has a bit of that now, but it's not the same. You can't go back again, but no reason why you can't take the stuff from the past and understand how those concepts can work in games that go forward, kind of like what we're seeing with Task Force Admiral.
I hope this is the return of he idea that some sims can work as games. We like games, they're fun. We can all use a bit of fun.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 30, 2020, 08:54:51 PM
And honestly, I just want some GAME in my sim. I love the dynamic campaigns, I love immersion, I love to insert myself into a world and load up something that's going to be different each time.
Man, that's why I loved Gunship, F-15, F-19, Task Force 1942 and M1 Tank Platoon 2. It's something that's lacking in the high fidelity market. I know for some just flying the aircraft is the fun, and for me sometimes it is too. But I really want a world to throw myself into, take four hours out of a day off and get in a couple of missions with some context. Something like I used to do back in the day with the Dynamix sims.
I hope new Microprose will scratch that itch. I know that IL-2 and even DCS has a bit of that now, but it's not the same. You can't go back again, but no reason why you can't take the stuff from the past and understand how those concepts can work in games that go forward, kind of like what we're seeing with Task Force Admiral.
I hope this is the return of he idea that some sims can work as games. We like games, they're fun. We can all use a bit of fun.
Exactly. I love Steel Beasts Pro, but it's not a game. I generally have to make all the missions for myself, and I lose a bit of immersion because if I build something, I know what the OPFOR is. What I loved about M1TP2 was that the kind of unit you were in determined the kind of support you got, and the campaign you in determined the kind of enemy you faced. I loved being able to play a Marine tank platoon (with AAV-7s and AH-1Ws supporting me) against a T-72/BMP-1 based enemy, or jump into the 1st Cav Div and fight T-90s/BMP-3s with Apaches, A-10s and BFVs supporting me. It was a fairly simple thing to do - basically 1d6 tables - but it provided just the right amount of consistency to feel realistic and the right amount of randomness to feel like every battle was unique.
Today, for tank sims, you've got World of Tanks and War Thunder on the pure gameplay side (War Thunder's damage models are nice, though) and Steel Beasts on the pure fidelity side. I'm not aware of any recent (past 10 years?) games that meet in the middle. Tank Crew falls on the Steel Beasts side, from what I've seen last time I tried it. M1TP2 has never been equalled. Or Panzer Elite, for that matter. I guess we have to wait for a kind soul with talent and a budget to feel nostalgic about one of those...
Panzer Elite... :dreamer:
Quote from: Staggerwing on January 30, 2020, 10:03:25 PM
Panzer Elite... :dreamer:
Yeah. I loved it too. You can still get it on GoG and there are super mods.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 30, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on January 30, 2020, 10:03:25 PM
Panzer Elite... :dreamer:
Yeah. I loved it too. You can still get it on GoG and there are super mods.
While I loved it too, It's day has past. Why play it over STA?
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 30, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on January 30, 2020, 10:03:25 PM
Panzer Elite... :dreamer:
Yeah. I loved it too. You can still get it on GoG and there are super mods.
Yes. Much fun was had. Do you remember Panzer Commander?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 31, 2020, 06:23:59 AM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 30, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on January 30, 2020, 10:03:25 PM
Panzer Elite... :dreamer:
Yeah. I loved it too. You can still get it on GoG and there are super mods.
While I loved it too, It's day has past. Why play it over STA?
No other reason than nostalgia. STA is much better as you say.
Quote from: hellfish6 on January 30, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
I love survey sims, not study sims.
Hell yeah.
I want to focus on tactics and strategy rather than button mashing. For me, DCS is all about button mashing and acting as a cockpit simulator. The weapon effects are terrible - the splash and fragmentation damage are laughable for such a 'detailed sim'.
They keep posting pictures of the B17 and I keep wishing that they partner with DCS.
They won't - but they won't need to, especially with that sort of following ;)
I know. But I guess then the question here will be if the b17 from microprose will be up to dcs's clickable and ever improving simulation standards.
Quote from: Destraex on February 29, 2020, 05:19:09 PM
I know. But I guess then the question here will be if the b17 from microprose will be up to dcs's clickable and ever improving simulation standards.
Did you ever play the Mighty 8th? All they need to do is update it to current standards. If they changed nothing else, it would still be exceptional.
I did not play the mighty eighth. To qualify that, a friend gifted the game to me on steam about a year ago after gushing to me about it. But although having a brief look, I could see how it would have been amazing for it's day. I did not really feel like playing through with it. I have too many other things like DCS that I need to get around to deep diving into. I might be a customer for the new one. The feeling I get is that the new game will not have a DCS professional flight model, but will be more immersive than a DCS game would be.
Nah don't hope for a DCS thing. As Jarhead says, they're going for a remake.
There is little sense in trying to compete with DCS in that area. Microprose is staying true to its legacy of the early 1990s - the first and foremost objective is a comprehensive sim with polished gameplay.
As such, the plan is to make a product that makes you want to read the manual to get better, not a product that requires you to read the manual to even start one engine.
Yeah if it gets me interested that would be great. I do struggle to get motivated to play DCS a lot of the time. Like a lot of games. I love the concept. But the implementation is the problem. The motivation.
I just wish they did B24 Liberators this time around.
Careful with what you wish - or not... ;)
Can't say much more ^-^
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 29, 2020, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: Destraex on February 29, 2020, 05:19:09 PM
I know. But I guess then the question here will be if the b17 from microprose will be up to dcs's clickable and ever improving simulation standards.
Did you ever play the Mighty 8th? All they need to do is update it to current standards. If they changed nothing else, it would still be exceptional.
Man, the Mighty 8th in todays graphics would be amazing.
No lie, Bwana......
nm
Man, yeah, I'm not interested in DCS B-17. I'm 100% fine with the Mighty Eighth updated. That's plenty good for me.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on March 01, 2020, 06:34:38 PM
Man, yeah, I'm not interested in DCS B-17. I'm 100% fine with the Mighty Eighth updated. That's plenty good for me.
You mean you're not interested in the button mashing, cockpit simulator known as DCS?
8 BUTTON PRESSES TO FIRE A MISSILE IN THE GAZELLE. F*CKING EIGHT!!
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on March 01, 2020, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on March 01, 2020, 06:34:38 PM
Man, yeah, I'm not interested in DCS B-17. I'm 100% fine with the Mighty Eighth updated. That's plenty good for me.
You mean you're not interested in the button mashing, cockpit simulator known as DCS?
8 BUTTON PRESSES TO FIRE A MISSILE IN THE GAZELLE. F*CKING EIGHT!!
You're always complaining about combat games not being realistic enough. Now, we have a sim that offers unprecedented authenticity, and...you're complaining. :uglystupid2:
There's a sweet spot that very few can achieve.
You can find the sweet spot in Dcs, it just takes work on your part. They don't spoon feed it to you. Which there lies the argument, games shouldn't be work or are they a labor of love.
I've found that for me, the sweet spot is the realism and DCS hits it. God how I tried and tried to get into flight sims. Jane's WW2, Jane's F-18, Microsoft CFS3, IL-2 Sturm, cliffs of Dover, Rise of Flight and Flaming Cliffs. At most, I'd get about 3-4 days out of it before I lost interest. I just felt like it wasn't as immersive as a good strategy game is; because whereas I'm not actually flying a plane, I AM planning a strategy like a general would. I dunno.
But then after my 4th or 5th reapers video, I gave DCS a shot. Sat down and learned a plane. All I had to do was get it started and take off and I was hooked. Haven't played anything else since May 2019. And that is ALL because of the realism. I found that the Uber realism was what made it immersive. Even though I know I couldn't really do it, I felt like "yeah, I could actually get into anAV-8b, start it up, take off, fly and blow shit up in real life. It was the realism that made it
To each there own but damn...give me the button-mashing crank lever pulling B-17 from DCS any day
Don't get me wrong. I love DCS and I love IL2.
I just liked the old lighter sims from Microprose as well.
There are times I'm not in a mood to take a fair chunk of my Saturday to fly one mission in DCS but still want to scratch the flight sim itch.
As my Steam library could show you, I like options.
"Realism in DCS" or any game (for that matter).
My take...
I'm not a pilot. I don't have the time or patience. When I jump into a video game I expect to have the same level of training and knowledge of the persona that I am simulating/emulating. That's why I'm OK with abstraction with games. That's why I'm ok with games like Heliborne or ArmA (jets). Games that simplify controls from 8 button clicks down to 2 or 3.
Same with first person shooters - pick any game...I am "simulating" an elite special operations soldier or SWAT member but I cannot control my breathing or aiming, and I am constantly outgunned by street thugs or terrorists with zero training.
Quote from: The_Admiral on February 29, 2020, 04:24:04 AM
They won't - but they won't need to, especially with that sort of following ;)
What what?
Ah good! I thought nobody had taken the bait :P
Well, more on that later at some point, worry not 8)
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on March 03, 2020, 11:51:00 PM
"Realism in DCS" or any game (for that matter).
My take...
I'm not a pilot. I don't have the time or patience. When I jump into a video game I expect to have the same level of training and knowledge of the persona that I am simulating/emulating. That's why I'm OK with abstraction with games. That's why I'm ok with games like Heliborne or ArmA (jets). Games that simplify controls from 8 button clicks down to 2 or 3.
Same with first person shooters - pick any game...I am "simulating" an elite special operations soldier or SWAT member but I cannot control my breathing or aiming, and I am constantly outgunned by street thugs or terrorists with zero training.
Is it fair to say you have 2 types of realism; 'technical' realism and 'environmental realism' ?
The latter provides realism in the sense that the game world behaves in a realistic manner whereas the former focusses on the simulation of procedures by the operator of the sim.
Both types can be combined (study sims do this).
You seem to value the latter more.
DCS, however, can be played in any combination of the above depending on which module you choose. Choosing a study sim model like the Hornet and then complaining about having to 'mash several buttons' to only fire off a missile is silly.
Especially when you have Flaming Cliffs 3 to get rid of that annoyance for you and still get immersed in the realism the gameworld provides.
If you complain that the Hornet should also feature a simpler way of control, then look no further either; enable the easy mode options and you're set.
On another note: an interesting discussion was brought up on the Steel Beasts forum:
https://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/13330-steel-beasts-complexity/
That sim is regarded as super hardcore study sim/training tool, but personally I dont find the controls of the various vehicles too difficult at all.
The difficulty comes from managing the different assets in a force effectively and employing tactics correctly, using the scripting commands effectively, etc.
Quote'technical' realism and 'environmental realism'
I like that. It may be a reflection as to where I am in my life and profession. Games like Unity of Command II are much more enjoyable - large scale maneuver and control, rather than a single dude dropping a bomb. Bigger picture.
QuoteEspecially when you have Flaming Cliffs 3
Oddly enough, I actually thought the A-10A was HARDER to use than the A-10C.
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on March 03, 2020, 11:51:00 PM
"Realism in DCS" or any game (for that matter).
My take...
I'm not a pilot. I don't have the time or patience. When I jump into a video game I expect to have the same level of training and knowledge of the persona that I am simulating/emulating. That's why I'm OK with abstraction with games. That's why I'm ok with games like Heliborne or ArmA (jets). Games that simplify controls from 8 button clicks down to 2 or 3.
Same with first person shooters - pick any game...I am "simulating" an elite special operations soldier or SWAT member but I cannot control my breathing or aiming, and I am constantly outgunned by street thugs or terrorists with zero training.
I'm the opposite - when I'm simming it's
me that's doing the flying or the shooting. I like to imagine what I would do/would be able to do in a dogfight or firefight. Mostly obviously it's die quite quickly, but that's where the interest lies for me in these things.
Quote from: Yskonyn on March 04, 2020, 07:30:08 AM
On another note: an interesting discussion was brought up on the Steel Beasts forum:
https://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/13330-steel-beasts-complexity/
That sim is regarded as super hardcore study sim/training tool, but personally I dont find the controls of the various vehicles too difficult at all.
The difficulty comes from managing the different assets in a force effectively and employing tactics correctly, using the scripting commands effectively, etc.
I like your 'environmental' realism concept. It makes sense. I also don't think SB Pro is particularly difficult to learn and I've been pretty successful at every vehicle I've tried. No real buttonology to learn, or if there is, it's negligible. For better or worse, though, to me SBPro solidly falls in the technical realism type of genre I'm losing interest in as I get older because it's a pure simulation. The fun is the simulation itself - there's no 'gameification' that hooks me like the Microprose games did, where you had the 'meta' of crew management or a dynamic campaign that provided context and consequence.
I enjoy taking a platoon out in SBPro - even with the $130 or so I paid for it - time to time, but it will never be the program I spend the most time on in my free time. Ditto for DCS (maybe until they come out with a dynamic campaign). In this day and age, my time goes to programs -
games - that are designed to be
fun.
It's a shame too. I've spend literally thousands of dollars in War Thunder over the years. I have the disposable income to do that. It's not a very good game, and I vastly prefer single player games with interesting mechanics (crew management, dynamic campaigns... these are constant themes for me). But War Thunder is fun - even when it isn't - and it's often gorgeous. I've never been able to play with a T-80U in a tank game (or sim) before, but I can in War Thunder. It also offers M4 Shermans, Panthers, KV-2s, T-62s, M48s, T29s, Rooikats, Type 74s, AML-90s and LeClercs and literally hundreds of other armored vehicles, nevermind aircraft and ships. It can only do this because it's a study sim - every tank is unique, but the controls to operate them are common. You're fighting
with your vehicle, not fighting
against your vehicle - or pausing every five seconds to look up how to do something in the manual. You Falcon 4.0 fans know what I'm talking about. DCS could make a tank game as visually beautiful as War Thunder, but they'd only have five tanks - probably a couple from WWII and a couple super modern for some reason - and a year wait between every new vehicle. And then you'd be pausing every five minutes while you try to figure out how to PMCS your tank or adjust track tension or wait 2 hours to fix a broken track. But best of all, I can play a game in 15 minutes. I can kill a T-72 or two while I drink my coffee before I go to work.
If I spend that much money in a game like War Thunder that I love, adore, hate and rage quit all at the same time, imagine how much money I'd be willing to spend for a well-crafted single player experience in a tank game with a good amount of replayability?
^ I've been pretty much thinking along the same lines as hellfish6.
There was probably a time when I was so itching for something like what DCS offers.
Where Microprose always shown, though, IMO is that it knew how to balance simulation with game. And that's the thing. DCS is a absolutely fantastic simulation but it is a shitty game.
There is something to be said for games like the old B-17 The Mighty Eighth. It had enough simulation to be immersive, but it also was wrapped up in a game that allowed you to have fun, and not focus simply on the technical aspects of the B-17. There's a balance there that is really missing lately in flight sims, again IMO. I hope Microprose can fill that void.
So...where did they go? I don't know if I've just been looking in the wrong places, but the projects that have signed with Microprose have been fairly quiet. Outside of a few posts from the Admiral and from Jo, I have no idea what the state of the development is, or what else Microprose may be working on.
It's strange that information was more available on some of these titles when they were still being developed without the backing of a publisher.
Now that the excitement of having Microprose back on the stage has worn away, it needs to do a better job of showcasing its titles.
I agree with JH. Kind of disappointed with the overall lack of promotional content from Microprose at the moment. Most of their promotions are just throwbacks to titles they released in the 80s and 90s. For people like me that didn't play a ton of Microprose back in the day, the nostalgia is lost on me. I'd like to see more info on upcoming projects.
That said, sometimes too much development info can be a bad thing. People start to get impatient, and they also become armchair developers. Plus, there is runaway expectations that the final product can never live up to. Its a delicate balance.
That said, sometimes too much development info can be a bad thing. People start to get impatient, and they also become armchair developers. Plus, there is runaway expectations that the final product can never live up to. Its a delicate balance.
[/quote]
Couldn't agree more....! Sometimes a developer puts out an endless stream of content long before the game is coming out so by the time it does it feels old, like something you've already played.
Like anything else, there is an art to it. That's why people in PR, marketing and advertising make a lot of money.
Still, some development updates are necessary. Hardly any screenshots, no videos, not a word on progress or release? It's just really weird. The announcement that Microprose was back came with a bang, and the news that it had signed three eagerly anticipated titles with small, but capable developers was also celebrated with fanfare. Since then? Nothing. :idiot2:
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 16, 2020, 12:23:26 PM
Like anything else, there is an art to it. That's why people in PR, marketing and advertising make a lot of money.
I'd wager it's this.
As a CSO my job every day is partly to find a way to make my company more visible. The barrier on that is typically money. Marketing is not cheap and the last thing you want to do is misspend. We dumped $10k into a hole one year that got us two leads that were a professional Santa Claus and a octogenarian in a nursing home.
Microprose is just starting back, they're probably banking on the idea that their past reputation is going to give them a lot of runway.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on October 16, 2020, 02:20:49 PM
Microprose is just starting back, they're probably banking on the idea that their past reputation is going to give them a lot of runway.
I think this is likely the case as well, even if I do personally wish they would talk a bit more about their new upcoming titles. It is definitely a delicate balance all around. I'm really hoping some of these titles come out sooner rather than later. That will definitely help all around. Specifically, I think Sea Power is going to be fantastic, and its my most anticipated Microprose published title on the horizon.
There might be a bit of a misunderstanding at play here.
Microprose as a publisher does a lot of things - regular media updates is just one of its functions, but certainly not the core one - at least as far as Task Force Admiral is concerned. They are providing us with larger media outlet access for big announcements (this is what happens when a new partnership is announced), access to some of their dev teams too (the improvement of the graphics in Regiments is precisely just that), extra financing, QA, a Discord channel with a sizeable community, etc...
Apart from that, us indies kept on using our usual channels to communicate about the games. Jo & myself are mostly the only ones communicating outside of the main interface that is our Steam page community hub news, through our own media accounts. We were like that before the deal, and we don't plan on going back on our habits, as we have built our community this way (of course we did so with the expectation of getting that very deal, but it's part of our DNA now too).
Others are still there, and do as much as they can/wish using the methods they were using before.
Here's for Sea Power
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1286220/allnews/
Here's for Regiments
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1109680/allnews/
Microprose had plans for weekly updates & all, but some of us were less willing than others to provide regular content due to the "armchair dev" syndrome described by Rayfer - one I am fortunately safe from considering I am the sole producer in the whole line up not to have any sort of creative talents, and as such might have some extra time others don't. We're working together on ways to make it more interesting for everybody, but so far those who are much into the games di have a ready access to the Publisher's discord, where each game & dev team has its own private space. Is that different from how games used to be advertised? It sure is, it's not 1994 anymore, and we're not the next Cyberpunk either. But I'd rather have MPS focus on stuff is knows about well rather than, for instance, manage my community in my stand. Publisher dev posts about technical games like ours do not amount to much in my opinion - they sometimes are even counter-productive, considering nobody out there can be expected to be an expert at WW2 carrier history, WW2 hex-based ground war, Cold War naval & land tech all at the same time. :crazy2:
All the while, other teams are being approached or groomed yet still unannounced (some of them following our own recommendations) while the MPS internal dev teams are working on their own projects, not the least of the lot being obviously the B-17 game. I know in that regard that not everybody was happy with the silence following the B-17 sequel, but then again, would you all be happier not knowing it existed at all? :P
And I can tell you, they do have a number of other things brewing right now. I saw them. They look great. They're totally the dope. And still, they won't announce - because that would just amounts to more frustration, eventually. Good things take time. But know this: we - the four indie games announced till now - are but a fraction of what is currently being processed in the pipeline.
All of this prompts the main question - what do you guys expect in 2020 in terms of media coverage for that sort of games? Back in the Microprose glory days you'd buy your monthly mag and get some news, developing your own hype based on a few thumbnails and some good writing, or a nice full page ad. Now that communication is everywhere except in places where it used to matter (especially surviving community websites, which don't have the reach they used to have, and of which Grogheads is one of the very few relevant ones), aside from the way company like i.e. Slitherine would communicate for instance, have you anything else in mind? True interrogation of mine, and I'll be happy to forward these recommendations to our publisher.
Cheers!
At any rate, some news for the label (although not the ones you might be waiting for, but still it's some Jagged Alliance action after all :knuppel2:)
https://www.pcgamer.com/urban-strife-sounds-like-jagged-alliance-2-but-its-infested-with-zombies/
Quote from: The_Admiral on October 20, 2020, 09:24:52 AM
At any rate, some news for the label (although not the ones you might be waiting for, but still it's some Jagged Alliance action after all :knuppel2:)
https://www.pcgamer.com/urban-strife-sounds-like-jagged-alliance-2-but-its-infested-with-zombies/
I thought I was burned out on Zombies. I was wrong. This looks pretty cool!
It is!
Here's very early alpha footage from the Summer. Solid prod values & references :coolsmiley: