Venezuela Update

[airboy]

Venezuela was once the most prosperous country in South America.  Well fed population.  Good health care.  Highest median household income in all of South America.

Then they made the mistake of electing a communist who made Venezuela into a one-party State.  Chavez effectively nationalized oil production and restricted the ability of foreign firms to explore for oil.  He fired all of the experienced managers and engineers in the state-owned oil industry.  He refused to pay for standard maintenance of the oil industry.  He took the oil money and used it for handouts to his supporters.  He closed down opposition press sources, beat & jailed his opponents, and seized companies without compensation.

Today (WSJ page 1, 9/5) Venezuela has only one working oil rig.  The oil production is about the same as Wyoming - and falling.  They can no longer refine fuels to fulfil domestic demand for specific types of refined oil products.  There are fuel, food, and other shortages necessary for life.  The last offshore oil rig was shut down.

Venezuela still has 20% of the world's proven oil reserves - not that this does the people there any good.

Oil income this year is expected to fall below what expatriate Venezuelan citizens send home to their family members and below that of gold production.

They cannot produce propane - and the country is returning to burning wood for cooking.  Transportation has collapsed to the point where the remaining farmers have great difficulty transporting food to market.

This is the collapse of a modern economy due to stupid, dictatorial decisions made by communists.

I was criticized by quite a few people a decade or more ago for "alarmist" predictions on the path Venezuela had embarked on.  Most unfortunately, today's reality exceeded even my predictions of the terrible consequences of their decisions.  I know water runs downhill, sometimes even I'm surprised by how fast the flow becomes.

People are entitled to their own opinions - but not their own facts.  The facts in Venezuela are simply horrifying from a personal freedom, health, and welfare of its citizens.

[demjansk1942]

You wonder why a lot of people in the USA think they can do it better?  It's just a failed Ideology.  Human nature requires rewards and working for oneself and to make those close to you enjoy in your success.  However, work hard and then have to give it away, forget it.

[W8taminute]

What a tragedy.

[demjansk1942]

Kamala Strategy

[em2nought]

You wonder why a lot of people in the USA think they can do it better?

Especially since those who think the USA can do socialism better don't think much of the USA to begin with.

[Windigo]

He fired all of the experienced managers and engineers in the state-owned oil industry.  He refused to pay for standard maintenance of the oil industry.

These are the biggest errors. The rest is just ideological ranting.

[Sir Slash]

That's what the State does when it Nationalizes an industry it thinks it can run better than the people who built it, ruins it by firing everybody that actually knows how to run the industry. The essence of Socialism is State-Run Industry which always fail. If you can't pump oil in Venezuela, you need to quit.  L:-)

[Windigo]

Socialism can also mean "state owned" rather than "state run" which is a hall mark of democratic socialism. This is a successful approach to  natural resource development as it socializes both the costs and the profits for a nation.
An example of this is Statoil of Norway. It is run just like any other profitable corporation, just that the shareholders are "Norway".

[Sir Slash]

Whether State-Owned or State-Run, the country has been ruined by Socialism. Only Socialism can and does destroy prosperity more quickly and thoroughly than disease, war or natural disasters.

[Windigo]

Whether State-Owned or State-Run, the country has been ruined by Socialism. Only Socialism can and does destroy prosperity more quickly and thoroughly than disease, war or natural disasters.

well now we are back to baseless ideological ranting.... the fact that quality of life rankings and middle class prosperity are highest in democratic socialist nations makes your statement false

[Sir Slash]

But... Baseless Ideological Ranting is what I do best.  :-[  Democrat Socialism = good. Social Socialism, like in Venezuela, =bad. Very bad. Like in people starving to death bad. Otherwise, I got no argument.

[al_infierno]

"baseless ideological ranting" is a spot-on description for a large chunk of the posts made to R&P.   :clap:

[Windigo]

"baseless ideological ranting" is a spot-on description for a large chunk of the posts made to R&P.   :clap:

oohhhh, I like to rant too; been known to lose it on the issues of gun control/gun training/gun ownership.

and maybe a little smidge on climate change    ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

[MOS:96B2P]

Whether State-Owned or State-Run, the country has been ruined by Socialism. Only Socialism can and does destroy prosperity more quickly and thoroughly than disease, war or natural disasters.

well now we are back to baseless ideological ranting.... the fact that quality of life rankings and middle class prosperity are highest in democratic socialist nations makes your statement false

Here is an interesting article authored by people who have a connection to the region.  After reading the article, Norway seems similar to Saudi Arabia in its reliance on the oil industry.  Norway has done much better than Venezuela, with the socialist experiment, but probably for the reasons in the article.  So maybe socialism can work to a certain extent under certain circumstances for a time.  I wonder if their socialist system will be able to adjust when the global economy is not as reliant on oil (Tesla and all that).         

From the linked article:
For observers in the United States and elsewhere hoping to copy the model, it is worth remembering that the real Nordic experience is about the limits, rather than successes, of democratic socialism.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/07/08/the-myth-of-democratic-socialism/

[MOS:96B2P]

"baseless ideological ranting" is a spot-on description for a large chunk of the posts made to R&P.   :clap:

At least at the time of your post this thread is in Current Events. 

I often find topics & posts in both Current Events and R&P interesting.  I think it is usually more productive and interesting to have conversations with people with a different view point.  It is sometimes a way to learn new things or at least understand why someone holds the opinion they do.  This requires a certain tolerance, open-mindedness.