Attila: Total War

[Nefaro]

That is bizarre and definitely sounds incorrect. I wonder if everyone hated me because my tech was at level 2, or because I was playing as the Huns? Both?

Either way I have been defeated again, 4th campaign coming to a crashing halt :( Question is, do I continue to play, selecting another faction with the above weirdness still in place, or do I wait until it's fixed? Will the patch tomorrow address it? The answer you got Nef just can't be correct...

I am positive that teching up will increasingly make people DOW you.  The CA rep said it was intentional but I still question whether the amount by which it ramps up so quickly is called for.


Here are the base Relations penalties, as mentioned in that mod thread, from the game file.  Keep in mind that these base penalties can have numerous modifiers that will multiply them. 

Poking though the game database we have the following penalties for imperium:
Level 2: -5 penalty
Level 3: -10 penalty
Level 4: -30 penalty
Level 5: -40 penalty
Level 6: -60 penalty
Level 7: -80 penalty
(From table effect_bundles_toeffects_junctions rows 95-99)

When I held a total of three territories, and had researched various early tier Domestic and Military techs (within the first two boxes but not all), I was getting the -30 penalty.  Which was often multiplied up to -60.  When I had almost researched all of the first two tech blocks and a bit more (nowhere near halfway through the tech tree), my penalties had reached the -40 and -60 spots and were likewise multiplied upwards with some factions. 

I'm sure this is a problem with all factions who are doing any research, including the Huns.  My relations ratings in the diplo screen are completely bottomed out, in red, with everyone except my two earliest and closest allies, whom I had arranged marriages and other stuff with, but their relations ratings are also diving steadily.

It's basically a Realm Divide that starts from the beginning of the game and steadily goes up while you are researching.  Supposedly a shortcut to make Horde factions, which don't actually conquer & hold territory, still be given the "Great Empire" diplo penalties which used to be based on how much territory you held in Rome 2.  But attaching it to the research tree for all factions is an absolutely ridiculous way to go about it, if that's the case.  And it's the only reasonable explanation for why they did it.

That aside, I am going to choose between the Langobards/Lombards/Longbeards, or the Geats, tomorrow, as my next faction. I just couldn't get on as the Huns...could not make it work.

The new horde mechanics are cool but there seems to be some steady complaints about how it actually plays out on the campaign map and how the AI uses them.  I've not played a horde yet so I can't comment.  The regular land-holding factions are enjoyable, other than poor corner-cutting design decisions like the research hate thing.

[Gusington]

Well I for one can tell you that the Huns are very tough to play, resulting from what is going on under the hood. I'm hoping to have better luck with a more traditional faction but from your above numbers it sounds like every faction is going to be tough. I don't suppose you have the numbers from Rome II for relations penalties to compare?

[Toonces]

Gus, why don't you just try another faction?  And/or turn down the difficulty slider a notch?

[Sir Slash]

I remember in BI, playing the Huns early game was the easy part. It was later when you settled down that it became a bitch because you were handicapped in tech, trade and religion and could build nothing worth while as a navy to protect your coasts. If early game Huns is a bitch, then it can only get worse from there. Damn. Now I really want to play them.

[Nefaro]

Well I for one can tell you that the Huns are very tough to play, resulting from what is going on under the hood. I'm hoping to have better luck with a more traditional faction but from your above numbers it sounds like every faction is going to be tough. I don't suppose you have the numbers from Rome II for relations penalties to compare?

Rome 2 had the Imperium penalties, but the Imperium level only increased as your territory spread.  So the larger you became, the higher your "Great Empire" relations penalty would be.  A reasonable way to slow down the steamroller effect IMO.

But in Attila, it now goes up when you complete research.  Your so-called Great Power status, which was a way to combat the big runaway blob effect in Rome 2, goes up just by doing research AND via expansion.  So even if you're not invading & taking other territories, your research will still make all other factions increasingly hate you.

The CA rep on their forum posted that you don't have to research anything, and that you can just not do any research if you don't want that Great Power status to cripple all Diplomacy for you.  Which is.. well..     You can see the official replies in the official forum thread I linked, to see the quote I left and another dev reply or two.  ;D

Attila is already more challenging compared to Rome 2, and has been fun to play.  But the diplomacy being crippled by this research nonsense has certainly made me  ::)  The users reporting it all thought it was a bug because it didn't make sense but CA says it's working as intended. 

[Sir Slash]

The Radious mod addressed this issue by adjusting down the Imperial diplomacy penalties and some other diplomacy values as well. I've not played much of Attila. Has anyone noticed if the AI factions still seem to spawn huge armies with only one territory owned like in Rome 2?

[Jarhead0331]

Who is getting the new DLC?

[mikeck]

Who are you playing as?

ERE Gus. I had a few good fights with the goths. Eventually they sued for peace. The Huns hit with two armies but I staved them off with spear units in testudo. Next turn i forced both Hun armies I to a corner and finished them off. There are more coming but I got about 15-20 turns with no attacks. I'm at war with everyone because I'm allied with the WRE and I join their wars for cash.

So I dont care if everyone hates me...I'm killing all of them anyway

[Gusington]

I got the new DLC. Tonight I start a new campaign either as the Geats (Viking DLC) or the Longbeards (new DLC). I don't want to mod Attila yet but if the diplomacy numbers prove to ridiculous I may use the Radious mod to calm them.

[MetalDog]

So I dont care if everyone hates me...I'm killing all of them anyway

THAT'S the ticket!!  Kill them before they kill you!!

[Gusington]

That's odd mikeck...as the Huns every rinky dink faction around me had armies of three stacks or more! I could not find a decent neighborhood to catch a break and just got devoured each game by factions like vultures.

[Sir Slash]

I'm going to pass on the DLC, for now.

[mikeck]

That's odd mikeck...as the Huns every rinky dink faction around me had armies of three stacks or more! I could not find a decent neighborhood to catch a break and just got devoured each game by factions like vultures.

Not at all. Huns had several stacks which I have eviserated, Visigoths had a few stacks which I beat back at great cost ....Ostrogoths and  vandals seem to be fairly powerful but they moved past me into the western empire. Try a more conventional barbarian tribe like the goths or franks. It's almost impossible to attack the Huns and win because they are so mobile on the field....but if they are forced to come to you, spear units in testudo will shred

[Gusington]

Time for Geats. Or Longbeards.

[mikeck]

Or.....Ere and Sassanids. Cmon Gus, leave the grab-ass barbarians alone and come on up to varsity: ERE v Persians