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Attila: Total War

Started by LongBlade, October 27, 2014, 02:34:56 PM

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MetalDog

Quote from: Martok on March 17, 2015, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 17, 2015, 01:42:17 PM
New Celtic DLC announced, here's a sample:

http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_ATTILA_The_Picts

Not sure of release date but I now add the Picts to the list of factions that I want to play next, right under the Langobards and the ERE.


Here's the official trailer: 

https://youtu.be/8wrdBy6VZYE

(Can't get YouTube embedding to work all of the sudden...?) 


Holy hell, there's a *lot* of hate for this one.  On YouTube and Twitter, all I'm seeing is rage; you can imagine what the reaction on TWC is...

Remove the s from https
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"If its a Balrog, I don't think you get an option to not consent......." - bob

Martok

"Like we need an excuse to drink to anything..." - Banzai_Cat
"I like to think of it not as an excuse but more like Pavlovian Response." - Sir Slash

"At our ages, they all look like jailbait." - mirth

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MetalDog

And the One Song to Rule Them All is Gimme Shelter - Rolling Stones


"If its a Balrog, I don't think you get an option to not consent......." - bob

MengJiao

#543
Quote from: Martok on March 17, 2015, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 17, 2015, 01:42:17 PM
New Celtic DLC announced, here's a sample:

http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_ATTILA_The_Picts

Not sure of release date but I now add the Picts to the list of factions that I want to play next, right under the Langobards and the ERE.


Here's the official trailer: 

https://youtu.be/8wrdBy6VZYE

(Can't get YouTube embedding to work all of the sudden...?) 


Holy hell, there's a *lot* of hate for this one.  On YouTube and Twitter, all I'm seeing is rage; you can imagine what the reaction on TWC is...

  That's the hate-the-game game: buy one and scream about it for the rest of your life.  Certainly a less expensive option than getting lots of games and playing some of them occasionally.

   Yes, and I pathologically went and looked at TWC.  Sure enough, there's a thread where you can go post about how you didn't buy Attila because Rome2 has done so much for your game hating pleasure and be praised for your insight.

mikeck

Yes, and at TWC, if you mention that Rome 1 and MTW 1 were far better and had great AI, you earn extra praise for your insight
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

MengJiao

Quote from: mikeck on March 18, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
Yes, and at TWC, if you mention that Rome 1 and MTW 1 were far better and had great AI, you earn extra praise for your insight

  That one has me stumped.  I played those games and I cannot see what they can possibly be talking about.  By the way the AI in
Attila seems to be slightly better (or stranger? or more likely to cause useless comments by your troops?) than in early Rome2, though this could be something of an illusion caused by:
1) lots of fog -- I hate foggy battles!  The AI seems (seems, mind you) to do better in fog.
2) using artillery to fire within a wood -- Now how on earth would that work?  You'd have to be AI to come up with that as an "ambush" (it's an ambush, my men scream -- right -- the enemy is catapulting the crap out of the trees!) like that.  Apparently it worked.  Well it was scary in the fog I could not figure out what the banging sounds were.  It was a fine (fanboi) game moment when I wondered whether the Huns had cannon or something to make the boom-crack sounds I was hearing as they whacked away at the woodland at pointblank range.
3) Hiding in a gulley -- this AI plan backfired.  It's true I could not see a ton of Huns lined up in a depression, but neither could the AI imagine that I lost track of my cataphracts and had them perfectly positioned (completely by accident) to obliterate them from deep in the rear before they could get out of the gulley -- that really made up for all the fog and catapulting in the midst of trees
4) Your own troops are as AI as the AI.  It's an ambush!  which means "Oh dear here are the enemy!"  Did somebody fail to inform them that they were looking for the enemy?
5) the constant commentary by the commentary guy:  Our troops are running away!  (why is this a surprise?) etc. etc. etc.
6) or I am just more of a fanboi than ever since Fall of the Samurai?

Nefaro

Quote from: mikeck on March 17, 2015, 05:24:19 PM
I honestly don't understand the hate for these DLCs! I mean, if you dont want it, don't buy it. People complain that they contain stuff that should have been in the original release but that would have made it more expensive. I like the paradox style cafeteria DLC...keeps the cost down and you pick and choose what you want. I'm going over to the TWC forums...if I'm not back in 10 minutes, go on without me

I'm sure the complaints are due to people thinking it should've been in the original release, or as a free post-release update.

In this case, their argument may have some traction because the current faction units/buildings/etc for the Celtic British isles are the exact same as the Proto-VikingSaxon factions.  Which is just wrong and obviously a placeholder.

I think that has made conquering the British Isles, in my Saxon campaign, much easier since the building types are the same and I don't have to convert them.

MengJiao

Quote from: Nefaro on March 18, 2015, 12:34:24 PM
Quote from: mikeck on March 17, 2015, 05:24:19 PM
I honestly don't understand the hate for these DLCs! I mean, if you dont want it, don't buy it. People complain that they contain stuff that should have been in the original release but that would have made it more expensive. I like the paradox style cafeteria DLC...keeps the cost down and you pick and choose what you want. I'm going over to the TWC forums...if I'm not back in 10 minutes, go on without me

I'm sure the complaints are due to people thinking it should've been in the original release, or as a free post-release update.

In this case, their argument may have some traction because the current faction units/buildings/etc for the Celtic British isles are the exact same as the Proto-VikingSaxon factions.  Which is just wrong and obviously a placeholder.

I think that has made conquering the British Isles, in my Saxon campaign, much easier since the building types are the same and I don't have to convert them.

  I'm sure the DLC were lined up before the release, but that doesn't seem like a bad thing.  After all, any sign of coherent planning in working out a history-based game is something of a wonder -- except in the marketing of course which was all coherent planning and no sign of any connection to reality.
  I wonder if the Celtic world of the British Isles was all that different from the Teutonic world of the Saxons, though.  I mean in reality not in terms of hyping the darkness of the Dark Ages.  After all one of the reasons given on TWC for hating CA is that "we know nothing about the Celts in this period"...of course you could argue that this is the only period for which we know much of anything about the Celts (linguistically for example).  The actual Anglo-Saxon-Jutish take-over of Anglo-land went pretty smoothly once the Roman army left and the probably-not-that-different Christian Celts of Cadwallon were perfectly happy to ally with the Pagan Mercians (Saxons more or less) against the Christian Northhumbrians in the early 7th century.
  The Saxons who would have been really different would have been those Saxons who stayed in Saxony.  The ones who actually took over Mercia and Northhumbria and so on would have been more like the Romano-Britons in terms of their social organization and in terms of having been in contact with semi-urbanized Roman civilization, I would think.

Martok

Quote from: mikeck on March 18, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
Yes, and at TWC, if you mention that Rome 1 and MTW 1 were far better and had great AI, you earn extra praise for your insight
Anyone there who says Rome 1 had great AI is flat-out retarded.  I can't even excuse those who never played the first Shogun and Medieval titles (and therefore had no measuring stick to compare RTW to), as the AI was still so obviously bad as to be ludicrous. 

When I -- never more than an average strategy-gamer even on my best day -- could regularly trounce the enemy when outnumbered 3-to-1, you *know* the computer player is dumb as a post.  :buck2: 




Quote from: Nefaro on March 18, 2015, 12:34:24 PM
Quote from: mikeck on March 17, 2015, 05:24:19 PM
I honestly don't understand the hate for these DLCs! I mean, if you dont want it, don't buy it. People complain that they contain stuff that should have been in the original release but that would have made it more expensive. I like the paradox style cafeteria DLC...keeps the cost down and you pick and choose what you want. I'm going over to the TWC forums...if I'm not back in 10 minutes, go on without me

I'm sure the complaints are due to people thinking it should've been in the original release, or as a free post-release update.

In this case, their argument may have some traction because the current faction units/buildings/etc for the Celtic British isles are the exact same as the Proto-VikingSaxon factions.  Which is just wrong and obviously a placeholder.
Yeah, I'm getting the sense that this time around, all the faction DLC might be going a little too far in terms of milking money from the fanbase. 

To be fair, I doubt it's CA's idea; I imagine it's Sega behind this DLC blitz. 

"Like we need an excuse to drink to anything..." - Banzai_Cat
"I like to think of it not as an excuse but more like Pavlovian Response." - Sir Slash

"At our ages, they all look like jailbait." - mirth

"If we had lines here that would have crossed all of them. For the 1,077,986th time." - Gusington

"Government is so expensive that it should at least be entertaining." - airboy

"As long as there's bacon, everything will be all right." - Toonces

mikeck

Yeah but you can't really "milk" money from anyone because it's your option to buy. That's why I don't mind the DLC. I don't buy all of them because frankly I don't play any of the barbarian tribes so it doesn't make much difference to me. If that keeps the cost of the game down then even better.

Martok you are 100% right...Rome 1 AI was horrible but everyone looks at these things through rose colored glasses
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

Swatter

I am a little shocked myself, but I am still playing Attila after 85 hours. The only games I have played more than this (according to Steam) are Skyrim and Mount and Blade. I am in the year 427 with the ERE and my power is supreme, but I am still challenged every turn. I have never played a TW game vanilla and had this much enjoyment even after building a powerhouse. A good part is the faction politics. I have family members dying in battle,  from assassination, or old age and its tough to get everything working together. A mod or patch the would make civil wars tougher would really put this game over the edge. Having disloyal nobles banning together at once could bring even the best player to his knees.

A multiplayer campaign set to normal or hard, one player as the ERE and the other WRE would be a lot of fun. I am trying to get my brother to do that with me, but he's obsessing over War Thunder ATM.

GDS_Starfury

only 83 hours?  is that because of to many other games?
according to Steam Ive played 207 hours or RTW2 and 183 hours of Shogun2.  :buck2:
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


besilarius

Swatter, don't know if this would be feasible, but you reminded me of a great game from years ago.
Was in a group that had map and miniatures campaigns.  The GM divided the East Romans into two players, and the West into three factions (would have played better as two, but he had some historical justification.)
Each player had two goals to keep the Empire going, but to be in charge.
Then his surprise, each player also controlled a tribal group (Franks, Goths, Saracens) that attacked the other half of the Empire.
So if you had Anatolia in the ERE, you would also have the Franks attacking the WRE. 
The player who did best was the campaign winner.
Was one of the very best campaign games I ever participated in.  The Diplomacy and deals were utterly cutthroat.
"Most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and you don't find out until too late that he's been playing with two queens all along".  Terry Pratchett.

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Nefaro

Quote from: MengJiao on March 18, 2015, 01:34:54 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 18, 2015, 12:34:24 PM
Quote from: mikeck on March 17, 2015, 05:24:19 PM
I honestly don't understand the hate for these DLCs! I mean, if you dont want it, don't buy it. People complain that they contain stuff that should have been in the original release but that would have made it more expensive. I like the paradox style cafeteria DLC...keeps the cost down and you pick and choose what you want. I'm going over to the TWC forums...if I'm not back in 10 minutes, go on without me

I'm sure the complaints are due to people thinking it should've been in the original release, or as a free post-release update.

In this case, their argument may have some traction because the current faction units/buildings/etc for the Celtic British isles are the exact same as the Proto-VikingSaxon factions.  Which is just wrong and obviously a placeholder.

I think that has made conquering the British Isles, in my Saxon campaign, much easier since the building types are the same and I don't have to convert them.

  I'm sure the DLC were lined up before the release, but that doesn't seem like a bad thing.  After all, any sign of coherent planning in working out a history-based game is something of a wonder -- except in the marketing of course which was all coherent planning and no sign of any connection to reality.
  I wonder if the Celtic world of the British Isles was all that different from the Teutonic world of the Saxons, though.  I mean in reality not in terms of hyping the darkness of the Dark Ages.  After all one of the reasons given on TWC for hating CA is that "we know nothing about the Celts in this period"...of course you could argue that this is the only period for which we know much of anything about the Celts (linguistically for example).  The actual Anglo-Saxon-Jutish take-over of Anglo-land went pretty smoothly once the Roman army left and the probably-not-that-different Christian Celts of Cadwallon were perfectly happy to ally with the Pagan Mercians (Saxons more or less) against the Christian Northhumbrians in the early 7th century.
  The Saxons who would have been really different would have been those Saxons who stayed in Saxony.  The ones who actually took over Mercia and Northhumbria and so on would have been more like the Romano-Britons in terms of their social organization and in terms of having been in contact with semi-urbanized Roman civilization, I would think.


I forgot to mention that the Celtic tribes DLC release had been openly admitted to by someone at CA on or before release day for Attila. There were implications that it was pretty much finished at that point.  I was certainly reading about it's imminent release, on their forum, within a day or two of Attila's release and it had evidently been discussed thoroughly by that point.  I originally read that it was supposed to be the first DLC, so maybe there was some 'shell game' going on with the release times after all the complaints.

Combined with having the proto-vikings as their placeholders, which is still inappropriate for the Roman-Celto-British, I can definitely understand the customer complaints.  While I'm not up in arms about them practically removing whole factions to sell as DLC just yet, I think it's a good idea for their customer base to give them hell about it so that the practice doesn't get increasingly worse. 

Gusington

I typically remain calm about this kind of thing but I do agree that snipping the Celts out to sell them later is not right.

That said, the nerd rage is at extreme levels here. Buy it, or don't.

Is there going to be a Celts mini campaign, or is this DLC just a culture pack for the grand campaign?


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