DCS Discussion

[Skoop]

I haven't even really delved into the ground radar yet, it's only useful in attacking sea targets as the ground clutter make it hard to pickout the blips.  I'm sure if I used it more I'd find filters or techniques to spot targets better, but my go to weapons use the Tpod or self tracking.  The ground radar on the JF17 might be a limited one like the one on the viggen and the ground radar on the 16 / 18 will be full featured and more detailed, thus taking an insane amount of time.   

[mikeck]

Could be. The performance of the JF-17 In SP doesn't matter since I won't use it in any scenario. It's more about available aircraft. I don't think anyone would really want the F-36 or F-22 b.c tech is still so classified and the stealth would be too hard to compute. Not to mention the balance. But we
Were told that we won't get a superhornet, Rafael, grippen, Su-35, etc- not because the info is classified- but because "the time period is 2008 so we would only include aircraft in blocks operational at that time." But now, we get a plane operational in 2009 and in an upcoming block operational in 2013.

I have to chill and let it go but I get frustrated in MP when there are a flock of gen-4 planes from 1991-93 with performance modeled according to multiple 3rd party studies. But then, one gen 4.5 from 2009 with performance specs taken from the Chinese government. Including radar performance that is clearly ridiculous based on the performance of Chinese radars in their J-11s. JF-17 can fly circles around an F-16 in DCS, yet in real like, China has to use a reverse-engineered Russian SU-27 export engine on its new J-20 b/c they lack the tech and ability to manufacture anything close to a modern jet engine

[Jarhead0331]

Given the direction of the discussion, I wanted to look into this to see what is really going on with the JF-17 AAR "update". I see no indication that this is going to be a "block 2" version of the aircraft. The contrary seems to be the case.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=262371

Hi everyone,

We are now returning to office (not CSGO map) to continue the dev and bug fix of thunder.
Besides bug fix, AAR will be our current top priority.

In the following months, we will temporarily on hold the update of external/cockpit model update, but focus on model modification for upcoming AAR feature. In parallel, our programmers will start the AAR coding.

Regarding AAR details, we consider to keep only one aircraft in our module, but players can contact ground crew to "mount/remove" the fuel probe (may need longer time, like 1-2 minutes?).
We don't consider other upgrade but just add AAR capability.

So they are not adding a block 2. They are solely adding an AAR capability, with no other upgrades or additions.  I'm not sure if AAR is an authentic capability of the block 1, or not...however, clearly they are not updating the module to a block 2.

Skoop, if you have some info. to the contrary, I'd be interested in the source.

[mikeck]

Given the direction of the discussion, I wanted to look into this to see what is really going on with the JF-17 AAR "update". I see no indication that this is going to be a "block 2" version of the aircraft. The contrary seems to be the case.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=262371

Hi everyone,

We are now returning to office (not CSGO map) to continue the dev and bug fix of thunder.
Besides bug fix, AAR will be our current top priority.

In the following months, we will temporarily on hold the update of external/cockpit model update, but focus on model modification for upcoming AAR feature. In parallel, our programmers will start the AAR coding.

Regarding AAR details, we consider to keep only one aircraft in our module, but players can contact ground crew to "mount/remove" the fuel probe (may need longer time, like 1-2 minutes?).
We don't consider other upgrade but just add AAR capability.

So they are not adding a block 2. They are solely adding an AAR capability, with no other upgrades or additions.  I'm not sure if AAR is an authentic capability of the block 1, or not...however, clearly they are not updating the module to a block 2.

Skoop, if you have some info. to the contrary, I'd be interested in the source.

Thanks JH. I couldn't find it either but given that it takes me 10 minutes and 5 links to locate patch notes, I wasn't sure it wasn't stated.

In the end, it's about realism. DCS has always strived for maximum realism when it comes to performance and capabilities; both HOW the planes/weapons behave and WHAT weapons can be carried. All of a sudden we have a Chinese jet (15 years newer than anything) with amazing performance but no real indication on what that performance is based (especially avionics).

I'm cynical, so I'm wondering if it was meant to bring in Chinese players I guess. Maybe that's what's spinning me up....smell of pandering? DCS did need a high fidelity model but not sure why they wouldn't do that with the SU-27. Maybe a "we need something to compete with the F-16/18 so we will use the J-17 and bend the rules

[Skoop]

No official info, the same deka devs update spawned discussion on discords that I follow.  Some of those comments suggest that adding AAR although in a round about way, like selecting it through the F10 menu essentially makes it into a block 2.  I'm not quite sure what other features other than AAR are in the block 2, but the discussion left the impression that the AAR fuel probe was the major defining one between block 1 and 2. 

[Skoop]

Some other notes I've notice since racking up the hours in dcs the last few weeks.

I'm wondering If there's some kind of random algorhythm in the way dcs radars perform in general.  In random, I mean that some random difficulty is applied to make the radar seem more difficult in obtaining detection.  It seems very present in the JF-17 because the datalink is so effective.  I've had AWACS give me targets that close to 15 to 12 NM off my nose and I know it's there from the DL but I'm just Flabbergasted  how my radars not seeing it, I end up having to get all the way into dogfight/ACM WVR mode before I can lock him.  Then other times I'll get powerful long-distance locks that trip me out because i'm so far away.  So that's being looked into.

Also, the JF-17 has the most advanced form of IFF in the game, and it's been challenging to use in MP when other players don't turn on their transponders.  I've had some teamkills due to this.  For best results, I've found that I just use mode 1, and ask all JF17s use the same 2 digit code.  This is the only way I've gotten 100%  green ID and RED ID.  Some argue that the mode 6 where your either get green or yellow unknown is more realistic, but getting autokicked because you teamkill a guy who didn't turn on his transponder is no fun.   

Also, since I've spent so much time flying it, I can tell you what the JF17 sucks at and how to defeat it.  Number one would be to get in close, the dogfight close range radar modes are lacking compared to the F16 and it has no helmet mounted site or off bore IR missile firing.  Just switching to guns is an absolute nightmare in a fight.  To activate the gun, you have to select it on the mfd, then select the feed in the mfd....imagine doing this while pulling Gs in a dogfight...No quick gunfighter button on the hotas like US aircraft.  So, If your driving a viper and come across a thunder, get in close and turn the fight into a knife fight in a phone booth and you'll kick it's a$$. 

Both the F18 and 16 carry more A2A missiles.  Not efficient or sophisticated but sometimes I'll fire off 120Cs with no chance to hit or go active, but to simply force the foe onto the defensive until I can get closer for a no escape shot.

[Jarhead0331]

A7E Corsair II confirmed.

[Skoop]

Sweet, off to see the details.

[Destraex]

I am wondering if with the corsair and the crusader in development by two different companies. If some of thr systems are the same whether they will collaborate.

[mikeck]

A7E Corsair II confirmed.

Oh...in 100%.

In my entire gaming life (since 1984 when I got my commodore) I've never spent almost a year only playing one game. Since I started with the Harrier, I haven't touched another game and play DCS whenever I can. This from a guy who never put in more than a few hours in any flight sim. I'm up in the harrier, Hornet and viper. I really want to learn the F-14. I'm kind of digging the analog gauges and no-FBW...so the A7 will fit right in. Day one buy

[mbar]

Holy WOW! Check out this sale and free trial schedule from Eagle Dynamics. Running on their site and Steam too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/fkonxk/dates_for_when_modules_are_available_in_dcs/

[WallysWorld]

Might finally have to install DCS and try it out during this period. Lots of reasons to do so now.

[Dammit Carl!]

(Shakes fist after seeing reduced price on Mi-8 and Ka-50 bundle after picking it up last week)  >:(

(Sees reduced price on everything and predicted 50% off on some sweet, sweet goods)  :D

[mbar]

I picked up the JF17 and used $20 off in miles. Score!

[Redwolf]

How do I use the free trial on the planes? They aren't in the game and the steam store doesn't have an indication of a trial.

Is that something not offered on Steam?