Anyone who has ever worked in a large organization has at some point taken a proposal to senior management for approval. You may already know the executive who has to sign off on the proposal, and you scan his face while he reads it hoping for advance warning on what is going through his mind. You listen carefully to his questions, trying to understand his thought process. You answer even more carefully, trying to steer him into your way of thinking. And to your delight, the questions that he come back at you with tell you that he is thinking about the proposal the way you want him to. When he summarizes the issues and the decision he has to make, you know that he fully understands why he needs to sign off. And then the unfathomable happens: he turns you down.
Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa played from the German side puts you into the role of that senior manager. You are constantly being asked to make decisions or delegate the choices to a subordinate, which amounts to pretty much the same thing. It is often painfully clear what the intellectually correct choice should be, and you repeatedly find yourself compelled to make a poor choice, or even the worst choice, with full understanding of what the unpleasant consequences are likely to be.
Any action you take is likely to upset someone. Antagonize a subordinate and he'll be slow to carry out your orders, which won't do wonders for your next performance review. Annoy your peers and your fuel allocation will get diverted to Western Europe, or your supply trucks won't get repaired when they break down. Anger your superiors and count yourself lucky if all that happens is early retirement. Anything you do or don't do comes at a political cost, and you rarely have enough political capital stored up to do what absolutely needs to get done, let alone what you really want to do. So you perform a heart-breaking triage on the decisions you have to make, repeatedly making bad choices so as not to upset the apple cart because you need to keep your political powder dry for the big fight over that one thing you think you absolutely need.
Make no mistake, this is a wargame. There's a big detailed map, with lots of units to move around and lots of places for them to go. But you're playing as theater commander. You sit there looking longingly at the map, thinking of all the brilliant maneuvers you could make and all the clever things you could do, if only you could get your subordinates to follow orders. And then you remember your inbox. It's a big inbox.
So why do you have to read through all those reports instead of focusing on moving your troops around ? You could delegate to your staff, and you can even ignore your inbox entirely. Many commanders throughout history have done precisely that. But it's part of your job, and sooner or later not understanding fuel consumption, railroad track gauges, and broken down trucks will bite you in the ankle, especially when the weather is starting to freeze over and your troops haven't been supplied with winter coats.
Played from the Soviet side the game presents you with a different but equally challenging set of problems. You have to figure out how to get a brain-dead, incompetent, and terrified officer corps to do something (anything) while navigating around Stalin's episodes of paranoia. Less than ten years before the game begins the functional part of the Soviet officer corps had been purged, and the consequences of that purge are still very much in evidence in 1941. You survive in the Red Army by towing the party line and not being too prominent or conspicuous: showing too much competence or initiative was a one-way ticket to Lubyanka prison or the Gulag. In that environment, the natural inclination of a Red Army general with any hope of life expectancy is to do nothing. When he isn't descending into paranoia, Stalin can nudge the Red Army into action by dispatching Zhukov or Khrushchev to keep things under control or restore order. When playing the game from the Soviet side a player will find himself in a constant war with inertia.
Playing from either side you have the option to remove the management exercise layer from the game before it begins, and what you'll be left with is an engaging division-level wargame in the style of its predecessors in the series, Decisive Campaigns: Blitzkrieg Warsaw to Paris and Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue. But playing with the management layer turned on elevates Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa to a unique experience that demonstrates at a visceral level that there's a lot more to being a good general than just making the right moves.
The latest version of the game that I've played was in a late beta stage of development. The game covers the first six months of the German invasion of the Soviet Union, and focuses on big picture issues with nineteen mile hexes and four day turns, and the pieces you shove around the map are division-sized units. But there's a lot going on below the division level that you can keep track of in the reports, and after a few days of movement and combat, no two divisions are identical, even if they started out that way. To make a game of this scope work there inevitably had to be a few abstractions, some of them annoying. Axis minors use German equipment and Slovakian infantry divisions are indistinguishable from their German counterparts. With a little prodding this kind of thing will be addressed in subsequent patches.
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Please tell me where I can mail my credit card to so they can have it on file for this one. Wondering what the time period is, just 1941 or the entire war 1941-45?
June 41 to Jan 42 only.
It's gonna be great fun to see your reaction when playing!
If you wanna bash at my Russians just say the word.
Late June '41 to late January '42.
And you won't have long to wait. The release date is November 24th.
This could be really spectacular. Warsaw to Paris and Case Blue are outstanding games, but if Vic pulls it off this will be the pinnacle of the series.
I don't know if you Beta testers are still under NDA and can't discuss, but I'd love to hear about how the game handles air combat / air units. (This is my major gripe with Case Blue.) I really hope Vic has done something to revamp the air war -- i.e. hope it's not just rehashing the system used in previous games. -- ?
Monster colour printed manual too!
Iain has already been on Matrix forums saying the usual "We don't give prices early - but this is big"...so the warning is there fellas - this will be expensive. That line (whether from Erik, Iain or someone else "official" from over there) always spells a big price tag.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 17, 2015, 12:07:08 PM
Monster colour printed manual too!
Iain has already been on Matrix forums saying the usual "We don't give prices early - but this is big"...so the warning is there fellas - this will be expensive. That line (whether from Erik, Iain or someone else "official" from over there) always spells a big price tag.
If they're talking Gary Grigsby prices, then I think that's a mistake. I'm sure I paid somewhere in the $40-50 range for the previous games, and was assuming this one would be $50 (at most, $60).
I want to support Vic and Matrix for that matter. But if this debuts at $70 or $80, I will definitely hold off until a sale.
I don't know - and I don't want to start the usual price speculation off - though I have. But that goes hand in hand with Matrix policy to spring prices on customers on release. Their decision not mine.
The manual looks proper sweet. O0
I should mention that I was referring to the digital download prices -- I understand that physical copy with printed manual is going to cost a pretty penny.
My hope is: $49.99 for digital download.
I'm not sure I understand Philippi's initial posting.....can movement of counters be delegated to subordinate commanders, i.e. the AI?
A freaking genius way to make "Just How Badly Will Russia Be Curbstomped Before Case Blau" interesting. :smitten:
Are there any rumbles about retrofitting the first two DC games up to spec on the politlcal strategy level? I know DC: Case Blau has some of it, but not to this extent, right?
Making decisions and reading your log and inbox can be delegated, ignored, or even turned off altogether before the game begins.
But just because you delegate a decision doesn't mean you'll like what your staff decides to do.
If there's a setting to make your divisions move and attack on their own, I haven't found it yet.
The BETA has to be one of the best wargames I've played at this scale..easily. It's also by far the most immersive wargame at this scale and I'd go so far to say at lower unit scale wargames aswell.
It's a total breath of fresh air and I love it.
I feel this will become an all time wargaming classic.
I'm also hoping this will spur other developers\designers to try new things and bring in new mechanics, because this shows it works and works well when done right.
All true wargamers should have it in their collection.
Quote from: Rayfer on November 17, 2015, 01:22:58 PM
I'm not sure I understand Philippi's initial posting.....can movement of counters be delegated to subordinate commanders, i.e. the AI?
No, you must move all the counters.
Quote from: sandman2575 on November 17, 2015, 12:03:44 PM
This could be really spectacular. Warsaw to Paris and Case Blue are outstanding games, but if Vic pulls it off this will be the pinnacle of the series.
I don't know if you Beta testers are still under NDA and can't discuss, but I'd love to hear about how the game handles air combat / air units. (This is my major gripe with Case Blue.) I really hope Vic has done something to revamp the air war -- i.e. hope it's not just rehashing the system used in previous games. -- ?
I talked about it a on the MFP, the air war is handled by decisions and card play. Basically it lets you assign air power to certain areas and it acts as a combat modifier.
It works well because in this phase of the war the Luftwaffe basically had total air control and only really had to fight the weather.
Also the unit count isn't that high. So it never becomes a chore.
Though I would like to see this feature in at some point.
Quote from: Barthheart on November 17, 2015, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on November 17, 2015, 01:22:58 PM
I'm not sure I understand Philippi's initial posting.....can movement of counters be delegated to subordinate commanders, i.e. the AI?
No, you must move all the counters.
Quote from: Barthheart on November 17, 2015, 02:13:42 PM
I talked about it a on the MFP, the air war is handled by decisions and card play. Basically it lets you assign air power to certain areas and it acts as a combat modifier.
It works well because in this phase of the war the Luftwaffe basically had total air control and only really had to fight the weather.
Abstracting the air war in this way sounds like a very smart improvement. Good news!
Ah yes, the Grogheads main-page... Will read your piece now O0
O0
Strategic wargame with a role-playing element. I think I've found a new drug. Will we able to hand revolvers out to our generals and tell them to "cut the Red-Tape"? ^-^
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 17, 2015, 04:00:42 PM
Strategic wargame with a role-playing element.
It's certain a novel approach -- and sounds like Vic pulled off something special here.
I may catch some flack for this, but on the subject of the 'role-playing element' -- I have to say I'm not thrilled by the game's cover-art, featuring Halder, von Bock etc. and frankly appearing to glorify "OKH" somewhat. My initial gut reaction when seeing it was, "what's with the gigantic Nazi heads??"
The cover would've been much better (in my opinion) if it had featured Halder facing off against Zhukov. But the art design clearly promotes the idea that "it's best to play this game as Germany!" I think the not very subtle pro-German slant is unfortunate and doesn't really make sense, since you can play as either side.
Now please don't misunderstand me. Barbarossa pitted one ruthless totalitarian regime against another ruthless totalitarian regime. What I'm *not* saying is, "pictures of nazis offend me but put in a picture of a good soviet general and all would be well." But if the cover art had featured both German and Russian generals, at least that would've given the game "sales pitch," so to speak, a feeling of neutrality. I just feel the art somewhat uncomfortably promotes the 'role playing fantasy' of "Be a nazi general! take directives from the Fuhrer himself!" when it doesn't need to do that quite so enthusiastically.
Just in closing -- *not* saying I'm "offended" by the art. Just saying I think it gives an unnecessarily distorted view of what the game is about.
Quote from: Barthheart on November 17, 2015, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on November 17, 2015, 01:22:58 PM
I'm not sure I understand Philippi's initial posting.....can movement of counters be delegated to subordinate commanders, i.e. the AI?
No, you must move all the counters.
Thanks....I thought so but wanted to make sure.
As I said I love the Beta (those who don't know, this scale is no where near my favourite. Infact I can think of only one other game I enjoy at this scale and higher. So I'm uber fussy). It will be one of my all time favourite digital wargames. The only thing I can think of that I'd liked to have seen is it to have been WEGO rather than turn based. But that's it.
From the product page
"Be prepared to shoot your Marshals. Fling your troubleshooters from one crisis to the next. Hope that they don't get delayed enroute. Ruthlessly feed your Conscript armies into the meat grinder, trading time and space, desperately holding on for Rasputitsa and the depths of winter. Prioritise one Front over others. Gather your Siberians and push back hard."
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 17, 2015, 04:00:42 PM
Strategic wargame with a role-playing element. I think I've found a new drug. Will we able to hand revolvers out to our generals and tell them to "cut the Red-Tape"? ^-^
The thought of being able to send out NKVD hit squads in a sizable campaign like Barbarossa is a tad hard to grasp.
If leaders can develop and grow skills, you might be killing a potential Zhukov because of some youthful failures.
The length of the game stops this from being an issue.
Also it's a risk you may have to take.. haven't played the Russians but I bet Stalin demands that you do somebody in at some point!
Quote from: besilarius on November 17, 2015, 06:21:44 PM
The thought of being able to send out NKVD hit squads in a sizable campaign like Barbarossa is a tad hard to grasp.
If leaders can develop and grow skills, you might be killing a potential Zhukov because of some youthful failures.
Playing the Russian side you are Stalin. And yes you could very well be ordering the NKVD to kill a great general.... if he's not performing fast enough.
I see the Finns are included. Do you get actual control of their forces and other allies or is it abstracted in some way?
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 17, 2015, 07:29:44 PM
I see the Finns are included. Do you get actual control of their forces and other allies or is it abstracted in some way?
You get control of the Finns, and Rumanian and Hungarian forces are in your AGS. The Finns are restricted to stay within a certain area... unless you get the decision that will let you free them... high cost in political capitol though...
Hi all,
Thanks for the compliments (of some of you there)!
But I really need to point out this game really has been a team effort together with Cameron Harris. (who some of you might know as plugger from the ATG resource mod)
Also... you might be interested to know it is my aim to make the Decisive Campaigns : Community Project (BETA) available 1-2 weeks after release day of Barbarossa. This one has sort of gone under the radar, but it will be a free extra for DC:Barbarossa owners. And it has basically my supreme attempt to finally enable normal humans to make scenarios with DC. I already posted some screenies some time ago: http://www.vrdesigns.nl/?p=916 and will provide some more updates really soon.
Best wishes,
Vic
Great news Vic! And welcome to GrogHeads!
O0
Welcome to Grogheads Vic!
The Community Project sounds like a resource DC players can finally expand their scenarios with their own custom content and put as much history inspired detail into it as their time affords!
Will buy this day one but really disappointed the game will only cover the first six months ... there was talk long ago that it would be the full war but I guess that proved to be too ambitious.
I'm okay with just doing operations. If I want the full war, and also insanity, there is at least one game for that already.
Besides, modders can do the whole war. :D
Quote from: Barthheart on November 17, 2015, 07:19:56 PM
Playing the Russian side you are Stalin. And yes you could very well be ordering the NKVD to kill a great general.... if he's not performing fast enough.
I got the impression from the description that you're playing more of an operational commander or subcommander on either side, not Hitler or Stalin: you have peers you need to play nice with, and superiors you have to placate or get a 9mm retirement package, with a strong secondary goal of gaining enough prestige to shape the overall operational effort. That isn't Hitler or Stalin level.
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 18, 2015, 06:11:52 PM
I'm okay with just doing operations. If I want the full war, and also insanity, there is at least one game for that already.
Besides, modders can do the whole war. :D
Quote from: Barthheart on November 17, 2015, 07:19:56 PM
Playing the Russian side you are Stalin. And yes you could very well be ordering the NKVD to kill a great general.... if he's not performing fast enough.
I got the impression from the description that you're playing more of an operational commander or subcommander on either side, not Hitler or Stalin: you have peers you need to play nice with, and superiors you have to placate or get a 9mm retirement package, with a strong secondary goal of gaining enough prestige to shape the overall operational effort. That isn't Hitler or Stalin level.
Nope. On the German side you play F.M. Franz Hadler. On the Russian side you play Stalin himself. This is on purpose. It means each side plays differently and from a different perspective.
As Hadler you have to put up with Hitler interfering and others above you getting in your way of running the theatre. You also have to keep you underlings in line and make sure they are doing the most with what you give them.
As Stalin you have absolute control.... of a bunch of boot lickers and back stabbers. You have to "motivate" one group while keeping the other group from taking you out... AND fight the Germans at the same time.
I think it's actually Halder.
Yeah bad typist... :buck2:
Quote from: Phillipe, beta test report, in the original postPlayed from the Soviet side the game presents you with a different but equally challenging set of problems. You have to figure out how to get a brain-dead, incompetent, and terrified officer corps to do something (anything) while navigating around Stalin's episodes of paranoia. Less than ten years before the game begins the functional part of the Soviet officer corps had been purged, and the consequences of that purge are still very much in evidence in 1941. You survive in the Red Army by towing the party line and not being too prominent or conspicuous: showing too much competence or initiative was a one-way ticket to Lubyanka prison or the Gulag. In that environment, the natural inclination of a Red Army general with any hope of life expectancy is to do nothing. When he isn't descending into paranoia, Stalin can nudge the Red Army into action by dispatching Zhukov or Khrushchev to keep things under control or restore order. When playing the game from the Soviet side a player will find himself in a constant war with inertia.
Quote from: Barthheart on November 18, 2015, 07:19:58 PMNope. On the German side you play F.M. Franz Hadler. On the Russian side you play Stalin himself. This is on purpose. It means each side plays differently and from a different perspective.
As Hadler you have to put up with Hitler interfering and others above you getting in your way of running the theatre. You also have to keep you underlings in line and make sure they are doing the most with what you give them.
As Stalin you have absolute control.... of a bunch of boot lickers and back stabbers. You have to "motivate" one group while keeping the other group from taking you out... AND fight the Germans at the same time.
Quote from: Matrix promotional ad for the manual extract or something like thatIf you play as Stalin, better be careful on your level of "Paranoia"! It could affect your decisions in many ways!
Quote from: Matrix promotional description page
Swap sides and play the part of a ruthless Soviet dictator, backed into a corner, armed only with a rusty knife. Is your pathological urge to win enough to overcome your inner demons and redeem yourself by stopping the world's most professional, undefeated, army from kicking down the gates of Moscow? Recall who left those gates unlocked in the first place?
Be prepared to shoot your Marshals. Fling your troubleshooters from one crisis to the next. Hope that they don't get delayed enroute. Ruthlessly feed your Conscript armies into the meat grinder, trading time and space, desperately holding on for Rasputitsa and the depths of winter. Prioritise one Front over others. Gather your Siberians and push back hard.
:-\
I guess I misread Phillipe? Matrix's manual excerpt and descriptions say Stalin is the player character, like Bart says.
I can certainly see why playing Stalin himself would make playing the Soviet side a lot different, and maybe that was a necessary design choice since Barbarossa Soviet generals wouldn't be much like players (aside from Zukhov and maybe one or two others), and it would suck to be assassinated randomly by Stalin after investing in hours of play, or worse be wiped by Stalin for any success!
Still, while I appreciate the issues and the distinction in playstyle, I do hope they think of a way to let the Soviet player play at the German player's level of command. If they can ahistorically allow sides to adhere to the Geneva convention as an option, it seems at least a little feasible to allow players to be Zukhov or someone a step lower who's ahistorically playing like Zukhov.
Anyway, can't wait for the DARs! >:D O0
Heck, the Matrix promotional page is practically a DAR snapshot already. O0
QuoteGrey Dawn. Murky ersatz coffee not doing it's job. Bustling headquarters. Oberleutnants pinning army dispositions on the wall map. Markers relentlessly pushing eastwards. It's a big map. Ostland. A nagging, slow burning, realisation of just how big it is. Bottom corner of the map flapping in the draft. Bolshevik cold overwhelming a proper Germanic wood fire.
Sipping mud. Pondering army realignments. Squinting suspiciously at the growing pile of reports on your desk. Staffers spiking ever more teleprints and summaries. In competition with a second pile. Requests. Arbitrations. Judgements. Something to do in between incessant phone calls. Berlin demanding you drop everything. The Führer has called a conference. Again. Colonel Rattus Facius, currently in dispute with your Quartermaster General, is impatiently waiting for you next door, striding up and down in his black, SS, leather boots, demanding that you intervene.
People. Strongly defined personalities. Under pressure. Fighting a war. Fighting for their own corner and agenda. Equally capable of helping or hindering. Decisions. Delegation.
AND CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHY THE HECK F.M VON BOCK WANTS TO SANCTION THE 10th PANZER DIVISION?
Because you ordered them to make a hasty attack, 30 km's southwest of Smolensk, low on fuel, in poor visibility with limited reconnaissance. Because they unexpectedly ran into three dug in Soviet Divisions. Because GenLt. F. Schaal, their commander fumbled the assault, ColGen. Guderian declined to cover for him and now F.M Von Bock is on your back demanding an official sanction.
COMMAND. It's this gnarly, gritty experience of front line, Operational Command that the game seeks to capture.
Me, either. I reached out to hopefully procure a copy for this very purpose as this title intrigues the heck outta me!
It's a very different "feel" to wargaming that's fer sure.
I've found my self cursing at the various "players" several times as they just don't seem to want to cooperate with my grand scheme.... and then there's The Corporal.... :tickedoff:
I saw a tantalizing screenshot where you visit der Corporal and have three choices, something like fully supporting his plan, another one I can't recall, and telling him to shove off and leave control with the generals. O0
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on November 19, 2015, 10:36:30 AM
I saw a tantalizing screenshot where you visit der Corporal and have three choices, something like fully supporting his plan, another one I can't recall, and telling him to shove off and leave control with the generals. O0
That's right at the start of the game. It kind of sets the tone and difficulty of the game. From time to time during the campaign you'll get called on again to decide if his New Plan is better or not...
I've admired Vic's stuff since Advanced Tactics (which I still play) so this is a day-one'r for me and I'm pleased he's sticking to Barbarossa (remember, we've already got Fall: Blau from his shop). Doug and I are deep into the 300+ turn Campaign: Waterloo game from JTS and, after the first few moves, our much smaller war has, like chess, proliferated an astonishing array of movements and turned our map into something that looks nothing at all like the last march of the Armee du Nord. As only one example, we're fighting like dogs for a little village miles west of Mont St. Jean and I doubt either of us has 100 men anywhere near Wavre. My point is that when you do what Vic is trying to do here opening up the decision tree to the whole war risks absurdity. Some might find that enjoyable, I would not.
I'll confess I'm not completely sold on the RPG-like aspects of the game, but I'm very excited to have a go.
Of course it doesn't hurt that I'm in the Kursk section of Max Hastings' "Inferno"...
Quote from: Barthheart on November 19, 2015, 10:42:06 AM
That's right at the start of the game. It kind of sets the tone and difficulty of the game.
Does that mean fully agreeing makes the game more difficult, or less?
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on November 19, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on November 19, 2015, 10:42:06 AM
That's right at the start of the game. It kind of sets the tone and difficulty of the game.
Does that mean fully agreeing makes the game more difficult, or less?
What do you think? Fully agreeing with a loony or telling him he's loony? ;)
And you actually have 3 choices: Agreeing with his plan, try to alter his plan, and make up yer own plan.
Agreeing with him gives you more political capitol but invites more interference from him.
Trying to slightly alter his plan will result in less cooperation from those in his circle and see him interfere less but be more on edge if things don't progress well.
Going it your own way leaves you with little help from above and can make missteps.... deadly.... But you can choose victory conditions that are actually attainable.
So the answer is yes. O0
Quote from: Cyrano on November 19, 2015, 10:47:03 AM
Of course it doesn't hurt that I'm in the Kursk section of Max Hastings' "Inferno"...
Great book by a great writer --
Tell a loon he's a Loon, and you get to lead Barbarossa in person. As in the first guy across the border kind of leading I mean. But why not see for yourself by watching the hour long preview over at youtube? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDmzvgvwT3M Enjoy.
It's released tomorrow - hold onto your hats.
I reckon DD £45 ($68) and posted with printed manual £65 ($98)
Damn. This will be another ignored release for me. I already missed so many due to some projects.
Quote from: jomni on November 23, 2015, 03:56:12 AM
Damn. This will be another ignored release for me. I already missed so many due to some projects.
Mate I was only speculating - it could be a tenner :2funny:
Nah. It's not the price. I'm just really occupied lately. must not be distracted by new games.
oic ;D
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 23, 2015, 01:39:37 AM
It's released tomorrow - hold onto your hats.
I reckon DD £45 ($68) and posted with printed manual £65 ($98)
Is this a guess, or has that been stated in an official forum somewhere?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 23, 2015, 06:39:17 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 23, 2015, 01:39:37 AM
It's released tomorrow - hold onto your hats.
I reckon DD £45 ($68) and posted with printed manual £65 ($98)
Is this a guess, or has that been stated in an official forum somewhere?
He's probably factoring in the 300 page hard cover manual.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 23, 2015, 06:39:17 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 23, 2015, 01:39:37 AM
It's released tomorrow - hold onto your hats.
I reckon DD £45 ($68) and posted with printed manual £65 ($98)
Is this a guess, or has that been stated in an official forum somewhere?
Total speculation - hence the "I reckon". It could be less given War in the West and War in the East were bigger in scope.
We'll find out tomorrow. I fully expect to be picking this up with the manual
Matrix said this when price was asked...
"We don't about prices in advance but this is a big game."
So just guessing anytime they have stated their game is big or a premiere, always tends to be on the higher side...but who knows.
Exactly :-X
This doesn't seem to be nearly as complex as WITW or WITE. I would hope the price will be a little lower. I think $50 would be the outside limit of what I would consider paying for a digital download.
I've just heard that speech before from Matrix and it ended up being a rather high price tag. :-\
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 23, 2015, 07:02:30 AM
I've just heard that speech before from Matrix and it ended up being a rather high price tag. :-\
Hopefully it's just the boxed version with the hardbound manual that's "pricey". The DC games have never broken the bank before, and while a little more innovated here with the RPG-ish factor, I'm not sure I see anything here to cause a big jump in price for the digital version.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 23, 2015, 07:02:30 AM
I've just heard that speech before from Matrix and it ended up being a rather high price tag. :-\
Im sure it is not going to be cheap.
Quote from: smittyohio on November 23, 2015, 07:14:19 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 23, 2015, 07:02:30 AM
I've just heard that speech before from Matrix and it ended up being a rather high price tag. :-\
Hopefully it's just the boxed version with the hardbound manual that's "pricey". The DC games have never broken the bank before, and while a little more innovated here with the RPG-ish factor, I'm not sure I see anything here to cause a big jump in price for the digital version.
the only thing that could drive the price up is the fact that it being published by S&M.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 23, 2015, 07:15:59 AM
Quote from: smittyohio on November 23, 2015, 07:14:19 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 23, 2015, 07:02:30 AM
I've just heard that speech before from Matrix and it ended up being a rather high price tag. :-\
Hopefully it's just the boxed version with the hardbound manual that's "pricey". The DC games have never broken the bank before, and while a little more innovated here with the RPG-ish factor, I'm not sure I see anything here to cause a big jump in price for the digital version.
the only thing that could drive the price up is the fact that it being published by S&M.
Well, there is *THAT*.... :-)
I'm bracing for $59.99 (digital download), which is the absolute max I'd be willing to pay. Really hope Slith/Matrix doesn't make the mistake of charging something more exorbitant. (I still feel burned by paying full price for WitE when it came out -- a game I detest on so many levels. I'm done paying Grigsby prices for these games.)
Price will be "Matrix price" ::)
Release info concerning the price will be in the "Matrix" style :-X
Things will become expensive clearer tomorrow.
Regards
Quote from: sandman2575 on November 23, 2015, 10:15:37 AM
I'm bracing for $59.99 (digital download), which is the absolute max I'd be willing to pay. Really hope Slith/Matrix doesn't make the mistake of charging something more exorbitant. (I still feel burned by paying full price for WitE when it came out -- a game I detest on so many levels. I'm done paying Grigsby prices for these games.)
That's kind of what I think it will be or at most $69, but I am just guessing......to be honest I will be in the minority, right now this one does not interest me so won't be buying anyway so I can watch everyone else have fun.
hope they don't price people out. Worried when i saw the quote "its a big game" I want to support Vic, i have the other games and ATG, but i do wonder about the re-playability of the game. One scenario, 6 months in length. I'd think twice about anything over $49, wasn't case blue which is a bigger game $39. It's a novel approach and i'm curious how it plays.
Doesn't interest me enough to pay any more than I did for Case Blue... Not really sure what makes this a "big game" to use their words. If it was the whole war in Russia, sure... I'm sure it's well done, but I don't see why this would be more than 40 to 50 digital download.
Hey, to each his or her own and the market will assuredly decide, but, in a world where Pandemic: Legacy -- which you can play through only ONCE -- retails for $70, people who put the kind of effort Vic does into his games should be cut a bit of slack.
We're throwing rocks before they've even announced the price, for heaven's sake.
Yeah, I fully expect it to be $100 (or close enough to never mind) with that hardback printed 320ish page manual.
Quote from: smittyohio on November 23, 2015, 07:32:50 PM
Doesn't interest me enough to pay any more than I did for Case Blue... Not really sure what makes this a "big game" to use their words. If it was the whole war in Russia, sure... I'm sure it's well done, but I don't see why this would be more than 40 to 50 digital download.
It's got role playing now like Crusader Kings. Lol!
Quote from: jomni on November 23, 2015, 07:57:31 PM
Quote from: smittyohio on November 23, 2015, 07:32:50 PM
Doesn't interest me enough to pay any more than I did for Case Blue... Not really sure what makes this a "big game" to use their words. If it was the whole war in Russia, sure... I'm sure it's well done, but I don't see why this would be more than 40 to 50 digital download.
It's got role playing now like Crusader Kings. Lol!
It's got nothing like roll playing like CK. ::)
What? You can't marry off your generals?
Quote from: Cyrano on November 23, 2015, 07:43:31 PM
Hey, to each his or her own and the market will assuredly decide, but, in a world where Pandemic: Legacy -- which you can play through only ONCE -- retails for $70, people who put the kind of effort Vic does into his games should be cut a bit of slack.
We're throwing rocks before they've even announced the price, for heaven's sake.
They create the room for speculation. Been doing it for years. It's become specifically the thing to do when they put out lines like the one Iain did.
I for one will be buying - probably today and probably with the manual
Quote from: -budd- on November 23, 2015, 06:42:37 PM
hope they don't price people out. Worried when i saw the quote "its a big game" I want to support Vic, i have the other games and ATG, but i do wonder about the re-playability of the game. One scenario, 6 months in length. I'd think twice about anything over $49, wasn't case blue which is a bigger game $39. It's a novel approach and i'm curious how it plays.
From what I recall, there's going to be an addition released sometime after release which will allow users a full editor to create their own scenarios. I'm not sure of the details though
Ah...just found this statement
Quote
Community Project
More news will still follow on DCX:Community Project. Its the free BETA title for future DC3:Barbarossa owners that basically builds upon an expanded DC2 ruleset and finally makes it much easier to create your own scenarios for Decisive Campaigns.
on this page
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3964793
Quote from: Vic on November 18, 2015, 11:37:58 AM
Hi all,
Thanks for the compliments (of some of you there)!
But I really need to point out this game really has been a team effort together with Cameron Harris. (who some of you might know as plugger from the ATG resource mod)
Also... you might be interested to know it is my aim to make the Decisive Campaigns : Community Project (BETA) available 1-2 weeks after release day of Barbarossa. This one has sort of gone under the radar, but it will be a free extra for DC:Barbarossa owners. And it has basically my supreme attempt to finally enable normal humans to make scenarios with DC. I already posted some screenies some time ago: http://www.vrdesigns.nl/?p=916 and will provide some more updates really soon.
Best wishes,
Vic
He posted that in this forum a few days ago ...
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 24, 2015, 01:41:27 AM
Quote from: Cyrano on November 23, 2015, 07:43:31 PM
Hey, to each his or her own and the market will assuredly decide, but, in a world where Pandemic: Legacy -- which you can play through only ONCE -- retails for $70, people who put the kind of effort Vic does into his games should be cut a bit of slack.
We're throwing rocks before they've even announced the price, for heaven's sake.
They create the room for speculation. Been doing it for years. It's become specifically the thing to do when they put out lines like the one Iain did.
I for one will be buying - probably today and probably with the manual
Agreed....they seem to be one of the few companies who don't release game prices until it actually is released so it leaves people to speculate and guess hidden messages from their staff based on past history. At the end of the day the price will be whatever it is and people can decide for themselves....enough people will purchase that convinces them their pricing and communication strategy is correct and who knows, it might be.
I'm at a loss at to why they hold the price until the day of release. All that does is allow speculation beforehand and increase the chances of a flame war on pricing on release day - when in fact what you actually want for your release day is a smooth release.
I do not imagine for a second that they are not aware of the price before release and therefore can only imagine they withhold the information for some bizarre reason. So I don't get the policy at all.
I don't agree with their communication of cost at all...but there is always the fact it's not my company. I just find it a very strange tactic.
Well - it's in the NEW RELEASES section of their forums - but not in store yet....the wait continues...drum roll please :2funny:
It's up now. $70.99 CDN download. $92.99 CDN with hard manual. :(
$49.99 USD d/l and $64.99 physical copy.
That's actually better than I thought it would be. Not cheap, of course, but that seems a reasonable price IMO
I was out.
Seems it's £35 DD and £46 boxed.
I'm happy with those costs tbh. Off to the shops. ;D
wow whats the exchange rate. $49.99 download US , $64.99 hard copy
Quote from: -budd- on November 24, 2015, 10:36:43 AM
wow whats the exchange rate. $49.99 download US , $64.99 hard copy
$70 hard copy
?
I'm seeing $64.99 hardcopy
$49.99 is reasonable in my opinion.
Quote from: -budd- on November 24, 2015, 10:36:43 AM
wow whats the exchange rate. $49.99 download US , $64.99 hard copy
I'd be paying $1.42 on the dollar which is a rip off. :tickedoff:
I just went on the £46 and ran that through the currency converter online.
£46 is what I see. That probably (hopefully??) includes value added Tax (what a load of bollox that is!)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 24, 2015, 10:39:15 AM
$49.99 is reasonable in my opinion.
I agree $50 US is a reasonable price for the amount of gaming in this game.
£46 ($70) is a good price for the manual too imo
Quote from: Barthheart on November 24, 2015, 10:42:46 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 24, 2015, 10:39:15 AM
$49.99 is reasonable in my opinion.
I agree $50 US is a reasonable price for the amount of gaming in this game.
reasonable to me also, i'll be getting this sooner or later. I'm still working through CSME and flashpoint reforged. Still have the last 2 CO2 modules to pick up. Good time to be a wargamer.
And yes, there is a flag and symbols mod.
We are about to post this on the Matrix forum as well, but make sure you run the updater after install - we have put up a patch that fixes a few things :)
Quote from: -budd- on November 24, 2015, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on November 24, 2015, 10:42:46 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 24, 2015, 10:39:15 AM
$49.99 is reasonable in my opinion.
I agree $50 US is a reasonable price for the amount of gaming in this game.
reasonable to me also, i'll be getting this sooner or later. I'm still working through CSME and flashpoint reforged. Still have the last 2 CO2 modules to pick up. Good time to be a wargamer.
I'm sure I'll get it at some point also... Price is reasonable. However, I just can't continue to buy games and let them sit... I need to make some headway into my backlog before getting yet another shiny new game. It sucks for the developers, but there is sooooooo much more competition for gamers' dollars now than in earlier years.
Quote from: smittyohio on November 24, 2015, 12:29:47 PM
Quote from: -budd- on November 24, 2015, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on November 24, 2015, 10:42:46 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 24, 2015, 10:39:15 AM
$49.99 is reasonable in my opinion.
I agree $50 US is a reasonable price for the amount of gaming in this game.
reasonable to me also, i'll be getting this sooner or later. I'm still working through CSME and flashpoint reforged. Still have the last 2 CO2 modules to pick up. Good time to be a wargamer.
I'm sure I'll get it at some point also... Price is reasonable. However, I just can't continue to buy games and let them sit... I need to make some headway into my backlog before getting yet another shiny new game. It sucks for the developers, but there is sooooooo much more competition for gamers' dollars now than in earlier years.
Agree completely...a big +1.
Quote from: smittyohio on November 24, 2015, 12:29:47 PM
Quote from: -budd- on November 24, 2015, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on November 24, 2015, 10:42:46 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 24, 2015, 10:39:15 AM
$49.99 is reasonable in my opinion.
I agree $50 US is a reasonable price for the amount of gaming in this game.
reasonable to me also, i'll be getting this sooner or later. I'm still working through CSME and flashpoint reforged. Still have the last 2 CO2 modules to pick up. Good time to be a wargamer.
I need to make some headway into my backlog before getting yet another shiny new game.
I say that to myself 3 times every night before bed ;D
I agree - but I still bought it. Nice shiny big bugger manual to boot!
Argh, my TenFourFox doesn't like Matrix, and may have screwed me on the Paypal... Probably not Matrix' fault, but the warning was that the security certificates weren't matching up. I'll check with the Surface.
Okay, good, the purchase went through, d'ling now. (Physical copy on the way.)
@JD: Your point about them not announcing prices in advance is very well taken. Frankly never occurred to me and it is, indeed, (seemingly) unnecessary and certainly weird.
Fine price and I want to purchase the manual, but am afraid it will just sit by the side of my PC as so many have while I blindly pound away at the game...wondrous, wondrous first-world problems...
As for waiting to complete other games before making a purchase, that sort of sanity and rational decision making will get you nowhere in these parts.
Victor is like Ageod to me. If they build it, I will buy it. I may not get around to playing it just yet, but I must own it. :smitten:
Quote from: Cyrano on November 24, 2015, 02:14:08 PM
@JD: Your point about them not announcing prices in advance is very well taken. Frankly never occurred to me and it is, indeed, (seemingly) unnecessary and certainly weird.
I think i read on Matrix that the reason they did not publish the prices is because of the negativity and shock that some people respond with.
Quote from: Asid on November 24, 2015, 02:33:42 PM
Quote from: Cyrano on November 24, 2015, 02:14:08 PM
@JD: Your point about them not announcing prices in advance is very well taken. Frankly never occurred to me and it is, indeed, (seemingly) unnecessary and certainly weird.
I think i read on Matrix that the reason they did not publish the prices is because of the negativity and shock that some people respond with.
I know. But my point is - get that out the way
before release. They aren't avoiding it by waiting to announce it on day of release - they just spoil their release day
Turns out this pricing is acceptable seemingly. But that's not been the case in the past
Like I said - ain't my business but I always thought it was a strange way to do things.
Some... interesting design changes from past DC games.
1.) No strategic movement. And yet rail travel is still a big thing (as it should be). Not sure how this parses out yet.
2.) Units cannot be voluntarily reassigned to different HQs. Fair enough, that might have been too much control in Fall Blau, but eliminating it entirely seems to be jumping off the horse on the other side. Wouldn't this be a political-point issue? Or for Stalin, wouldn't the previous system be nominal after all?
3.) No on-map arty or air assets, and no missions can be assigned. If this is an issue of scale, I kind of agree about the lack of on-map assets; not sure I agree yet about being unable to assign missions. I suspect you actually can but the method is very different (and may be very different between arty and air comparatively).
4.) Can't voluntarily disband units. This kind of makes no sense; it ought to be possible to assign shattered units to the force pool (to the rear for rest and recovery let's say) and/or re-assign them to beef up another unit. But maybe they only mean the system takes care of that automagically, which would be okay.
5.) No more roads on the map. Only double and single rail lines. Roads are assumed to exist on the rail lines, and to be all-season roads. Roads are assumed to exist off the rail lines, but turn to mush when applicable. I guess at this map scale this is a reasonable compromise.
More importantly, who wants to DARE to DAR together?! {not a euphamism} :D
the hell with the price debate. Lets move on to important things like impressions, AAR's, Youtube vids. I'll be getting it just not right now and i want to be tortured with how good it is. Then i'll see if i can wait it out, it's a lesson in game buying discipline, i have to warm up the discipline for the holiday sales.
Quote from: -budd- on November 24, 2015, 03:45:11 PM
the hell with the price debate. Lets move on to important things like impressions, AAR's, Youtube vids.
http://grogheads.com/?p=9448
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 24, 2015, 03:42:26 PM
3.) No on-map arty or air assets, and no missions can be assigned. If this is an issue of scale, I kind of agree about the lack of on-map assets; not sure I agree yet about being unable to assign missions. I suspect you actually can but the method is very different (and may be very different between arty and air comparatively).
I think this is an improvement. Air war in previous DC games was probably the weakest component, to the point of being virtually broken in Case Blue. I'm very glad to see this abstracted.
read that when it came out ;)...I need new material.
One of the Soviet decisions which becomes available whenever one of their units is surrounded, is to order a unit to break up into smaller formations and commence partisan activities. When the Soviet player does that the unit vanishes from the map and partisan activities in the area of operations of the relevant Army Group increase by a small amount.
The way artillery works is that you tell all of the higher level artillery assets from an Army Group to support either an Army or a specific Division for the next four days. Panzer Groups are deemed to move too fast for this kind of support, so you can only support them with Air assets. Air support works in much the same way as Artillery.
There's a lot more to the air support than this (especially on the logistical side), but what you won't do in this game is go crazy trying to figure out which small air squadron is closest to a potential target, because individual air units aren't shown on the map. But air support is still important, and how you use it (or fail to use it) effects game play.
Quote from: Philippe on November 24, 2015, 11:34:51 AM
And yes, there is a flag and symbols mod.
Where exactly can one download this?
It won't come out on the day the game gets released.
But it's almost midnight.
(I'll make a separate thread so it will be easier to find six months from now).
Okay, after about an hour of reading the manual, I feel unreasonably confident I can simulate a Stalinesque competency at shoving murdering commanding my troops against the Hun onslaught.
Anyone wanting to try a double-view AAR as the Germs?
Jason, I'll have a go at you as the Germans if you'd like. :)
Can't promise it will be fast as I have a lot of balls in the air right now but it will speed up as we go.
:knuppel2:
Squee!
I mean, balls!
I mean, uh, squee balls! O:-)
Should we go through the Matrix PBEM++ thingy, or through the game engine's route?
Either way is fine by me.
I suggest we use these options or let me know what you'd like to change.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1294.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb613%2Fbarthheart%2FCapture_zpsgdowwhcs.jpg&hash=ed396d1750760ce17b82f01bb92e850f764615c7)
O great, a well presented AAR to show off the games greatness. Might as well just buy it now. Looking forward to your AAR guys.
Those are all fine with me -- all the bling = woo! :D
What's winter test, though? I didn't recall seeing that in the manual; a quick search of the text doesn't bring it up; and when I load the operation in single player it doesn't show up as an option.
I do have the latest version; I just updated again a minute ago to be sure.
I doubt it's important, but I'm curious. :)
I'm going with a BETA option to allow testing of winter conditions, movement, supply, morale, combat etc
Oh, as far as PBEM protection, that'll also prevent us from saving and loading the game between turns -- or rather it won't, but it'll alert each other if we do so. It's meant to keep down save scumming.
I'm not familiar with the interface, so there's a good chance I'll do something by accident I didn't mean to. But since I'm playing Stalin, I'll just consider that role playing. >:D
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 26, 2015, 10:30:44 AM
I'm going with a BETA option to allow testing of winter conditions, movement, supply, morale, combat etc
That would explain Bart's screen, thanks! Although then I'm worried about whether our versions are compatible. (If this was out on Steam already, we could keep up on beta options.)
Jason,
Yes its a screen shot from the beta I previewed. I bought the up to date release version as well so no worries there.
We can turn off the PBEM save thing if you'd like. I trust you to not abuse it if you'd rather have the option to undo boo-boos.
I can get us started this Saturday. PM me yer email and we'll do it old school.
I set up a game a minute ago through the PBEM++ system; I'm pretty sure I set it up with me (the challenger) as Russia, but... ;)
I used the option set noted. It doesn't stop us from undoing booboos, it just reminds us to notify the other player if we did so. :)
I can do it by regular pmail, too, if you prefer -- mainly that was a test to see if I could set it up, since I've never used the Matrix internal system before and I figured this was a good excuse to learn how. The first thing I learned, is that the system used my universal Slitherine/Matrix login username and password, so anyone who has worked directly through Slitheratrix is already pre-registered in the system.
Let me know which; if you'd rather I do it by non++, I'll pm my email. If you're okay trying it this way, I'll pm you the password.
god - get a room already ;D
Send the password and we'll use the PBEM++. I've used it lots and it works well.
I see you've already started a DAR thread. I won't read it and will start my own soon.
Have fun and good luck. O0
I'll pm the password after this.
Since we may not start for a couple of days depending on holiday scheduling, I've made a note in my first post that it's okay for you to read along (and comment) for a little while. I'll let you know when it's time to stay away. O:-)
Honestly kids... World War Two is out of fashion. Grow up. :uglystupid2:
I believe this is what is needed, to get the juices flowing...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELlzBS5WrPu4s
Very cool Spelk! Thanks for the link.
Whoops, I was going to code that YT properly, but it's a list.
Edited to add: And the owner doesn't want it watched anywhere other than YT, so... no convenient Barbarossa episode window here.
I watched the first 10 minutes. "Captivating". Required reading for my unborn son. Thank You, Fellas. :smitten:
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 26, 2015, 01:04:52 PM
Whoops, I was going to code that YT properly, but it's a list.
Yeah, I can't seem to get playlists to link inline here. :(
Whoops, forgot to mention for anyone tracking this thread, that Bart and I have both now started our AARs. You can find the appropriate links in my sig (to the top of the threads; I forgot to include the code for going to new posts your system hasn't seen yet. Will try to fix later.)
I babble on about how good I think it is..
http://sugarfreegamer.com/decisive-campaigns-barbarossa/
Reading the communications, and weighing up the initial decisions had me positively glowing.. so I gush a little here.
I'm a bit worried DC:B has added Grand Strategy elements I might not be able to handle... but at the moment, I'm still at the dazzled and impressed stage.
Great to hear man. I was afraid at first that there would be a lot less wargaming here but it looks like there's plenty to do. Any thought about porting this system to another theater? How would it work for the West or Med?
Of course it's porting DC2 with some simplifications for the Barbarossa situation, plus the expanded political-strategy game.
So the question is really whether DC2 would work well in other theaters, and the answer is DC1. ;)
The expanded political-strategy portion is an optional gloss on the game engine to make curb-stomping-or-being-curb-stomped more interesting -- strictly speaking, DC3 can be played with part or all of it turned off (or even with it all turned on but ignored, although that isn't recommended since the AI will choose things for you that are conservatively reasonable and semi-random but which you won't necessarily know to adjust for.)
As far as other theaters, I suppose a modified version of the Nazi political-strategic game would work fine for either side; presumably with less modification on the Nazi side of the campaign. Some of the naval and air switches would have to be turned back on: that code is still in the game, with the impression that modders will be allowed to purchase a version of the code that allows them to mod the whole East Front (aside from East Germany -- the current map doesn't go quite that far west, but does go east to the Urals). The northwest corner of the map is completely unplayable for the Barbarossa campaign, but code used for DC2: Case Blue could be reactivated; and besides I don't know why Scandanavia (minus some Finnish areas) would want to be playable for East Front games anyway. But I assume the map will be moddable in the coming DC-X.
My hard copy arrived today -- as a coffee-table sized hardback instruction book (plus a CD, slid into a glued sleeve).
Public Beta 1.01
Hi all,
To err on the side of caution we are releasing the 1.01 patch first as a public beta. It already has been tested a bit and should be stable. If all goes well we'll make it official start of next week.
You can install it right now by downloading the 1.01 public beta patch installer from here:
http://slitherine.com/files/barbarossa/DCBarbarossa-UpdateComp-v101.exe
Its an installer. So just download it anywhere and execute!
Save files are fully compatible and you can continue your old games without worry, but in order for big part of the fixes/additions to come in effect you'll have to start a new game with 1.01.
v1.01 / Scenario version 1/12/2015-Vic / Internal scenario version 16
Added
-Friends and Foes report (Past history) now shows in relationship section of report tab for reference rather than just on the first turn.
-List of Cities lost or captured by date and theatre added to the end of game analysis and PDF's
-Video on how to mod the TO&E : http://www.vrdesigns.nl/?page_id=1198
Changed
-3 hexes added to East Prussia on map. Units and Soviet AI deployment routines adjusted accordingly.
-Soviet fortification card disabled if entire map is mud or snow
-SS Motorised Divs Heavy Inf increased from 7000 to 8000
-PG HQ staff increased slightly
-Improved dynamic text on Soviet 'Change Orders' card to make it's status clearer.
-AGN starting fuel bonus lowered from 6000 bbls to 4000.
-Soviet AI now has some limited flexibility of which front to deploy certain reinforcement armies.
-Finetuned the victory point influence that LOST cities have on the Soviet AI.
-Finetuned the HOLD/ATTACK Stance for fronts. In special cases the AI will be more aggressive and will chose an ATTACK stance where it used to chose a HOLD stance.
-Various other AI finetunes
-German staff will gain experience at a slightly slower pace in the later rounds.
Fixed
-Brest removed from 'Garrison' card text (automatic major garrison at Brest, no need to play the card)
-Stalin's missing bio added (deleted when reloaded Soviet Officer Lib)
-Soviet units not reporting AP effect of severe weather when asked to Report Status! (no change to game play effect) is fixed.
-T-26 description typo is fixed.
-Relationship #'s in German Command tab tool tips now correctly updated after each decision
-Bug with PG reassignment from AGC (only) where full amount of fuel was being transferred to the adjacent theatre instead of half (AGC has two Panzergruppen) is fixed.
-German 'Transport!' card incorrectly being able to be played on the Siege Artillery protection unit and the garrison units is fixed.
-Soviet HQ's are now correctly auto disbanding when they have no subordinate units (Germans gain PP's). Only affected Sov Player, not Sov AI.
-Reinforcements message for Soviets in Aide De Camp indicating 'x' Div's failed to deploy when it was referring to HQ cards not yet played is fixed.
-One AI crash bug found and fixed
Manual Errata
A dedicated page has been created over here:
http://www.vrdesigns.nl/?page_id=1191
Best wishes,
Vic and Cameron
Yeah, I'm going to hold off on the beta patch.
Bart however may be holding off on playing his turn until the full release of the patch (which seems to affect the Germans more than me).
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 03, 2015, 07:17:01 PM
Yeah, I'm going to hold off on the beta patch.
Bart however may be holding off on playing his turn until the full release of the patch (which seems to affect the Germans more than me).
Not holding off on playing my turn... just need time... may not be until Saturday morning... sorry for the delay.
The update won't affect current games but you also won't get the benefit of the changes.
No problem, just curious -- I thought maybe you might be waiting until the open beta testers confirmed it wouldn't break game saves.
But speaking of game saves and delays for time: did we make a mistake using the PBEM security feature? I thought it would only track if someone had to reload a save mid-turn, but further experience shows that it prevents any game save during a turn. Consequently, you either have to play out the whole turn in one sitting, or reload the turn from the beginning after having to quit before turn-end. (Which the security then tracks.)
That isn't a big deal for me right now; the Soviets may have {coughycought}ty divisions, but we have a lot less finagling on other matters (and some of our divisions can't move anyway after having already fought defensively against you). But the Nazis start early with a lot of extra finagling, which is of course a fun difference but I could see it causing problems for a play schedule when the system won't allow games to be saved within a turn.
My offer, is that if this is giving you scheduling problems, now would be the time to restart the game (recreating our strategic moves so far as possible) since you've only had one attack yet (the results of which I imagine can be mostly or entirely recreated without any problems) and I've only had one defensive attempt at running away or whatever (ditto ;) ).
What I am about to ask is not meant as anything questioning this specific game, but quite the opposite since I am trying to understand the attraction. For me eastern front strategic/operational games have never really interested me since when I look at pictures it seems all games that represent this theatre end up with a million counters lined up from top to bottom with what appears to be little room for maneuvers and different outcomes. I am sure this does represent real life historical, but I have often struggled to see how it would be fun to manage all those units in tight spaces. Also, I always got the impression that in most of these games it was almost a forgone conclusion Russia would ultimately prevail with little chance of different outcomes.
Am I just thinking about this the wrong way or missing where the attraction is? Again, this game looks nice and not really singling it out, but just thought I would ask because it is the latest with this content.
I'm not a huge fan of the battlefield myself. But my limited experience of the battle (Barbarossa at least) was that whilst it is a wall of units and several deep, the Russians are ill prepared and weak resulting in huge thrusts through their defensive lines.
This then results in the German player having to manage his flanks and keep an effective spearhead. The terrain opens up (and at places boxes you in or provide security - depending on your position) and so managing your forces and supplies becomes crucial.
So what seems like an impregnable wall is anything but. Then what seems like a cake walk quickly becomes a trawl and then a crawl. If the AI is effective (or a human opponent) your supplies will get cut and you'll be withdrawing fast
That's my very limited experience of the arena. I was like you - "Walls of units? What's the point?"
Oh - and undoubtedly as the German player the speed of your panzers will entice you every time to go those extra few miles - make a dash for that town or city - but don't.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 04, 2015, 09:20:48 AM
What I am about to ask is not meant as anything questioning this specific game, but quite the opposite since I am trying to understand the attraction. For me eastern front strategic/operational games have never really interested me since when I look at pictures it seems all games that represent this theatre end up with a million counters lined up from top to bottom with what appears to be little room for maneuvers and different outcomes. I am sure this does represent real life historical, but I have often struggled to see how it would be fun to manage all those units in tight spaces. Also, I always got the impression that in most of these games it was almost a forgone conclusion Russia would ultimately prevail with little chance of different outcomes.
Am I just thinking about this the wrong way or missing where the attraction is? Again, this game looks nice and not really singling it out, but just thought I would ask because it is the latest with this content.
Well - not sure about the games - but it is far from historical. The eastern front was THE front for dramatic operational manoeuvres.
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 04, 2015, 09:03:34 AM
No problem, just curious -- I thought maybe you might be waiting until the open beta testers confirmed it wouldn't break game saves.
But speaking of game saves and delays for time: did we make a mistake using the PBEM security feature? I thought it would only track if someone had to reload a save mid-turn, but further experience shows that it prevents any game save during a turn. Consequently, you either have to play out the whole turn in one sitting, or reload the turn from the beginning after having to quit before turn-end. (Which the security then tracks.)
That isn't a big deal for me right now; the Soviets may have {coughycought}ty divisions, but we have a lot less finagling on other matters (and some of our divisions can't move anyway after having already fought defensively against you). But the Nazis start early with a lot of extra finagling, which is of course a fun difference but I could see it causing problems for a play schedule when the system won't allow games to be saved within a turn.
My offer, is that if this is giving you scheduling problems, now would be the time to restart the game (recreating our strategic moves so far as possible) since you've only had one attack yet (the results of which I imagine can be mostly or entirely recreated without any problems) and I've only had one defensive attempt at running away or whatever (ditto ;) ).
It's not this feature which is giving me scheduling problems. I just need time to sit and concentrate on the game and the AAR. It takes a bit to play the game and remember to take all the screen shots you want to describe the turn you are doing AND make the notes for the AAR.
That and I have a lot of other projects on the go right now. I hope to soon finish a bunch of those other things and then the runs will speed. up.
So I'm OK to continue as it is but will restart if you'd like.
There were certainly a lot of units on the Eastern Front in WW II, but there was also a lot of space. As a result the Eastern Front could never suffer from the kind of congestion that lead to the stalemate on the Western Front in WW I. Wargames often mask this because they tend to pick a deceptively large hex scale for design convenience. In WW II there are a fair number of cavalry units on the Eastern Front, and they were needed: infiltration of the most densely defended parts of the line was always possible to some extent.
What makes the Operation Barbarossa phase of the war stand out is the possibilty of sweeping Panzer penetrations and huge encirclements. There is certainly a front line, but it is periodically shattered and whenever that happens the fun begins, assuming the end game in chess doesn't make you fall asleep. There is an ongoing tension between maintaining order and learning how to manage chaos. And both sides get to attack, just at different points in the campaign.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 04, 2015, 09:20:48 AM
What I am about to ask is not meant as anything questioning this specific game, but quite the opposite since I am trying to understand the attraction. For me eastern front strategic/operational games have never really interested me since when I look at pictures it seems all games that represent this theatre end up with a million counters lined up from top to bottom with what appears to be little room for maneuvers and different outcomes. I am sure this does represent real life historical, but I have often struggled to see how it would be fun to manage all those units in tight spaces. Also, I always got the impression that in most of these games it was almost a forgone conclusion Russia would ultimately prevail with little chance of different outcomes.
Am I just thinking about this the wrong way or missing where the attraction is? Again, this game looks nice and not really singling it out, but just thought I would ask because it is the latest with this content.
I like the East Front because of all the cool toys on each side, the back and forth of the war as it went on, to evils battling it out etc.
And like JD said, there are lots of opportunities fro huge sweeping encirclements or heroic river crossing stands etc. there really is all kinds of fighting on this front even though it looks like a WWI re-enactment.
I'm also in the camp of rarely playing the full campaign because of the huge numbers of counters. That's why I didn't play DC2 very much...
But DC3 has Division sized units so it at a much more manageable scale. Actually moving and fighting with all the Germans only takes me about 10 to 15 minutes. In this game it's all the "paper" work that takes up the time... and it's fun "paper" work.... the decisions are truly interesting and meaningful. eg. if you time your forward supply base move wrongly then your Panzers will run out of fuel and will be sitting still for 4 or 5 days while your staff straightens things out and your Generals are yelling at you. Great stuff! :D
The Flare Path has a nice interview with Victor and Cameron on DC:B design..
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/12/04/the-flare-path-decisive-campaigns-barbarossa-interview/
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 04, 2015, 09:20:48 AM
What I am about to ask is not meant as anything questioning this specific game, but quite the opposite since I am trying to understand the attraction. For me eastern front strategic/operational games have never really interested me since when I look at pictures it seems all games that represent this theatre end up with a million counters lined up from top to bottom with what appears to be little room for maneuvers and different outcomes. I am sure this does represent real life historical, but I have often struggled to see how it would be fun to manage all those units in tight spaces. Also, I always got the impression that in most of these games it was almost a forgone conclusion Russia would ultimately prevail with little chance of different outcomes.
Am I just thinking about this the wrong way or missing where the attraction is? Again, this game looks nice and not really singling it out, but just thought I would ask because it is the latest with this content.
The sweeping armor movements is why I like the East Front. Nothing like cracking the weak spot in the line with infantry and rushing your armor through to unhinge the defensive line. I have WITE and really enjoy the road to or smaller scenarios. Don't think i'll ever be up too playing the grand campaign, too many counters for me. The counters is this game are very manageable for me and somehow at this unit scale the space just seems more vast, like it should. Something WITE never made me feel with the boat load of counters. I think you have to come at this game from the RPG element to get the most out of it. How it all ties together with the reports and relationships is fantastic. The things you have to consider i find bring a breath of fresh air to genre. I think for the most part they pulled off what they were trying to do, hats off to them. I just unboxed my manual, it's fan Fu**ing tastic ;D , I haven't went hard copy in over a decade, nicest manual i've ever seen.
As noted, the giant lines which seem to leave no room for maneuver, are only a visual factor of a particular level of the war. At the tactical level (like Graviteam Tactics or Panzer Command Ostfront or Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin) there's plenty of room for maneuver; at the operational level (like SSG's games) there's as much or more room to maneuver than in any other theater. At the super-large-scale level (Unity of Command, Hearts of Iron series, War in the East, or DC3), sure there will be giant lines of divisions and corps -- but if the game is well designed, then supply and logistics and weather in the Russian heartland combines with the ability of both armies (German armies early) to blast holes in the line and try for a massive supply cutoff. Admittedly the sheer size of the attempted advance (along a front longer than Maine to Florida) means that any generally large push may create gaps that can be exploited by the defending side for a counter-attack, and this helps prudentially slow down temptations to advance, lest the attacker be flanked by a whole other part of the line.
All the super-large games I mentioned above, in my opinion, model factors which make the slugfest interesting. Certainly in DC3, Russia isn't foregone as the winner; on the contrary, for scoring purposes the German score is divided by half (and then both scores are multiplied by a somewhat-fluid difficulty factor). As with most game designs, the question is whether the player can do as good as or better than the historical outcome. If I'm waltzing into Warsaw with the Germans fleeing before me by the end of Barbarossa, someone didn't design the game right. ;)
Quote from: -budd- on December 04, 2015, 04:36:39 PM
The sweeping armor movements is why I like the East Front. Nothing like cracking the weak spot in the line with infantry and rushing your armor through to unhinge the defensive line.
Absolutely. The top five (or more) armor battles in history were fought on the Eastern Front, several during Barbarossa (although details have been completely lost) -- no other front comes close.
Was it a slogfest, sure -- German veterans called it "the long walk". But it was a slogfest with literally unimaginable amounts of armor (and artillery), and a lot of the strategy involved trying to set up or stop racing those panzers and T-34s around like sports cars.
Got the hardcopy manual today - it's impressive!
It's pretty. Already a little outdated, but pretty. :smitten:
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 04, 2015, 09:20:48 AM
For me eastern front strategic/operational games have never really interested me since when I look at pictures it seems all games that represent this theatre end up with a million counters lined up from top to bottom with what appears to be little room for maneuvers and different outcomes.
I own several more traditional Eastern Front games, but rarely play them for the reason you note. I just don't have the time, patience or energy to move hundreds of counters every turn.
The really nice thing about DC:B is that it's not just another case of death by a thousand counters. The unit scale (divisions), with the unique overlay of an RPG-like decision layer, gives this a game a feel unlike any other Eastern Front game out there. It's playable but still reasonably epic.
I haven't enjoyed a war game this much in a long time.
Quote from: Queeg on December 04, 2015, 09:36:36 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 04, 2015, 09:20:48 AM
For me eastern front strategic/operational games have never really interested me since when I look at pictures it seems all games that represent this theatre end up with a million counters lined up from top to bottom with what appears to be little room for maneuvers and different outcomes.
I own several more traditional Eastern Front games, but rarely play them for the reason you note. I just don't have the time, patience or energy to move hundreds of counters every turn.
The really nice thing about DC:B is that it's not just another case of death by a thousand counters. The unit scale (divisions), with the unique overlay of an RPG-like decision layer, gives this a game a feel unlike any other Eastern Front game out there. It's playable but still reasonably epic.
I haven't enjoyed a war game this much in a long time.
Yes I have to say - from my initial meddlings with it - it is quite something else - and that most unusual thing - different. I would liken it to why I used to love boardgames so much. Chrome. I always used to head straight for the special rules when opening the rules for the first time.
Quote from: Queeg on December 04, 2015, 09:36:36 PM
I own several more traditional Eastern Front games, but rarely play them for the reason you note. I just don't have the time, patience or energy to move hundreds of counters every turn.
The really nice thing about DC:B is that it's not just another case of death by a thousand counters. The unit scale (divisions), with the unique overlay of an RPG-like decision layer, gives this a game a feel unlike any other Eastern Front game out there. It's playable but still reasonably epic.
I haven't enjoyed a war game this much in a long time.
+1 QFT. Very much my feeling about this game, too. I'm one that gets in to horribly complex games, but this is simply the best computer wargame on the subject I've ever played. Now, if CO2 ever gets around to doing East Front between that and this I'll be in Nirvana...
The new 1.00c beta patch has apparently left beta and become official, or so says my update check. :smiley6600:
Still waiting for my manual. Shipped Monday but still not here. :tickedoff: :tickedoff:
I can't play without it
Quote from: mikeck on December 06, 2015, 03:07:06 PM
Still waiting for my manual. Shipped Monday but still not here. :tickedoff: :tickedoff:
I can't play without it
calling it a manual just doesn't do it justice. Man is it nice.
It's nice, but I use the pdf more. The hardcover printing is just bling.
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 06, 2015, 07:22:19 PM
It's nice, but I use the pdf more. The hardcover printing is just bling.
Same here. Great bling, though.
stopped reading manuals since they went PDF, perhaps thats why I suck at these games now ;)
The tutorial videos do cover pretty much everything for this game. A nice surprise bonus.
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 07, 2015, 09:40:42 AM
The tutorial videos do cover pretty much everything for this game. A nice surprise bonus.
Agreed. Which is another indication that the guys who made this game have a very clear design vision for it. This is a first-rate effort all around.
And yet I get the impression they're going to abandon the Eastern Front hereafter rather than pursue anything beyond Case Blue -- in effect they're going to sell DCX to modders (or maybe provide it for free to those who own DC3? -- I can't recall the details), and let the mod community work on the games hereafter.
Which I suppose is maybe just as well. That way they can concentrate on... goodness, what? ???
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 07, 2015, 10:15:24 PM
Which I suppose is maybe just as well. That way they can concentrate on... goodness, what? ???
I can think of a dozen other settings for this engine. North Africa. Western Europe after D-Day. Even WWI.
hope they continue in the east. Bound to get it sooner with a lot of the components in place already.
As to the future, I am constantly delighted by the fact that the whole of DC really seems to have sprung from Vic being a bit peeved with those who claimed "Advanced Tactics" wasn't sufficiently historical -- whatever that means. I'd like to ask him whether he feels vindicated in having created some of the best-received WWII games at this level on the PC.
...and we really should start up an AT game hereabouts...
Quote from: Cyrano on December 08, 2015, 03:43:44 PM
As to the future, I am constantly delighted by the fact that the whole of DC really seems to have sprung from Vic being a bit peeved with those who claimed "Advanced Tactics" wasn't sufficiently historical -- whatever that means. I'd like to ask him whether he feels vindicated in having created some of the best-received WWII games at this level on the PC.
Hear, hear!
Quote from: Cyrano on December 08, 2015, 03:43:44 PM
...and we really should start up an AT game hereabouts...
I tried to mod the original AT, and massage the rulesets into giving us an Invasion of Zululand in 1879. The AT engine was quite flexible, but my poor understanding of it all, probably led to the mod not being that groovey to play.. although adapting to a totally different time period and seeing what you can do with some tweaks to the numbers on unit make-up is really interesting.
http://advancedtactics.org/scenario.php?nr=134&tpage=0&tplayer=1983&ttag=0&tai=0&tdeleted=0&tengine=0
Blathering on about my feeble effort, I forgot to mention Grymme's scenarios (he did a number of ancient and musket era ones, as well as others)
https://atgscenarios.wordpress.com/
I'm looking forward to what can be achieved by much more talented modders and the DCX modding engine.
I've got the utmost respect for anyone who does ANY modding - whether it's hugely successful or not.
The effort - even if I don't play them - is always welcome. So thanks to all modders out there - however advanced or lite the mod is. O0
hear, hear,....modders are great, i'm certainly glad someone wants to spend their time modding games that improve my game experience.
+ 10K !
Community majiggy out now!
http://www.vrdesigns.nl/?p=1234
Some on this forum really value the opinions of others on games. I would generally NOT be one whose opinion SHOULD be valued since I let my fanboy side interfere with Total war games and AGEOD games in particular. But for whatever it's worth, this is the best strategy/operational war game I've ever played...not just WW2 game...I mean war game for any time period.
Whether it's GG war in the east/west or a tiller game, the main thrust of these games is moving chits around to attack stuff. Sure, they handle logistics, refit, air support, Etc differently, but in the end, as supremes commander of whatever army in whatever war, your job is to move units and attack stuff.
This game is so different. Sure, there is a time to move divisions, attack, move supply bases, assign artillery support and all the other accouterments of operational/strategy war gaming; but just as important are decisions you have to make presented to you by subordinates, OKW, chief of staff and Adolf himself. From the first turn alone you have several decisions that need to be made. The Fuhrer wants all armies moving east and encircling. Agree with him and you earn politics points. But you can also decide to drive straight for Moscow or thirdly, on Leningrad as priority. You can choose those but they cost PP and will irritate the boss. Certain decisions will simply be denied...but in this case, Hitler went along with my plan to drive on Moscow at the cost of 3 political points.
Other decions include routes of advance for the 3 army groups. The railroad guys need to know which railroads to prepare to work on so you need to decide which routes to take. You could decide to leave that to a junior officer like one of you subordinate generals recommends. Why do that? Because every decision explains how it effects your relationship with other generals. Agree with them and they like you more. That's important because at times, you need things from them
Another decision (all these before the fight begins) is to decide whether to modify fuel distribution based on your strategy. Whomever you take from will get pissed. I also made the decision to ask Hitlers chief of staff for more allotted fuel overall to be diverted from Africa operations. It costs 6 political points and i have about a 40% chance of getting it. I could have asked Adolf himself and had a 60% chance but that costs 16 PPs.
You have decisions about whether to join the nazi party, divert vehicles to the construction battalions, alter the attack plans, request fuel from the Luftwaffe, etc, etc
Every turn you have these macro decisions affecting the war in the way that a REAL commander would.
In reality, Field Marshall Halder, June 21, 1941, was not ordering division commanders to attack here or move there. He was signing fuel orders, planning supply routes, asking for favors, soothing concerns subordinates upset by his refusal to allow them to do what they want. These decisions created friends and enemies that made his job easier at times and harder at others
THAT'S what this game does. Every turn there are host of letters on your desk requiring decisions. Decisions have consequences. It is so much more than moving chits
Best strategic/operational war game I've ever played for that reason.
Edit: second turn I was notified that my "oath of allegiance" was missing. Himmler was sure there was just a misunderstanding but he made clear that taking the oath and joining the NAZI party would be beneficial to my career. So I scroll through the recommendations of other officers on this decision.(every decision offers recommendation and comments from several officers). I'm thinking "no brainier...Hitler and his Choef of Staff like me more...I get more stuff and my way!!!
Unfortunately, my chief of staff pointed out that the colonels, and most generals did not like or respect those in the NAZI party seeing them as anathema to the operations of a professional army. If I taken the oath, my subordinate generals will like me less and be less likely to do things I want. The more they dislike me, the more PP I have to spend to get them to do something. On the other hand, I have a better chance of getting approval for changes in operations, requests for parts or requests to have certain subordinates removed by Hitler himself.
Yeah... what he said. O0
This is why it takes Bart more time to do his moves than me. As Stalin, I have almost no political points, so I have a hard time getting any special actions to be taken, but I'm totally in control so I don't have to juggle a bunch of prima-donna cats around. If I want them shot, they get dragged out back and shot.
Of course, that's also a large reason why Russia At The Start Of Barbarossa is in a mess.
(The other big drawback being that I'm R.A.T.S.O.B. ::) )
Umm... sorry for the delays...
It takes me about 1.5 hours to do the turns and take all the screen shots I need for the AAR. Then about 1.5 hours to write it all up and post it.
Next week I'm off until Jan 5. so should be faster turn arounds.... should be... not enough hours in the day fer all I've committed to.... :buck2:
Sorry for the wall-o-text but so rarely am i this impressed with a game...and a WW2 game no less!
Quote from: mikeck on December 13, 2015, 09:20:00 PM
Sorry for the wall-o-text but so rarely am i this impressed with a game...and a WW2 game no less!
Don't be sorry. It's all correct. O0
Quote from: mikeck on December 13, 2015, 09:03:46 PM
But for whatever it's worth, this is the best strategy/operational war game I've ever played...not just WW2 game...I mean war game for any time period.
Agreed. It's been a long time since I've played a game - of any kind - that was so sure of itself. The guys who made this had a very clear idea of something really different that they wanted to do and weren't afraid to strip away the more traditional elements that would have made the game just more of the same old thing. It's a truly impressive game design.
Quote from: Barthheart on December 13, 2015, 09:17:31 PM
Umm... sorry for the delays...
It takes me about 1.5 hours to do the turns and take all the screen shots I need for the AAR. Then about 1.5 hours to write it all up and post it.
Really not a problem; I just figure it's hard to get a slot where you can feel pretty sure you won't be interrupted on the first half of that (since argh we elected not to be able to save midgame. LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES ALL YE WHO ARE CONSIDERING PBEM! Don't use the extra security unless you're dealing with a total stranger.)
Quote from: Barthheart on December 13, 2015, 09:28:06 PM
Quote from: mikeck on December 13, 2015, 09:20:00 PM
Sorry for the wall-o-text but so rarely am i this impressed with a game...and a WW2 game no less!
Don't be sorry. It's all correct. O0
Also O0
I'll join the parade of agreement with mikeck. This is probably the finest operational computer wargame I've ever played. I'm looking forward to seeing this engine used to put out some more really cool scenarios.
Quote from: Queeg on December 13, 2015, 09:36:29 PM
The guys who made this had a very clear idea of something really different that they wanted to do and weren't afraid to strip away the more traditional elements that would have made the game just more of the same old thing.
I think it's worth noting that the game, while large (because Barbarossa, duh), isn't all
that large. Each front probably has fewer chits to shuffle around than, say, any mission of
Unity of Command: Black Turn (which is also Barbarossa). And I'm saying that as the Soviet player! This isn't a game with 36 thousand tanks waiting for the Huns.
I'll be pulling the trigger on this one soon. It looks just too nice to pass up.
Quote from: Bison on December 14, 2015, 08:30:24 PM
I'll be pulling the trigger on this one soon. It looks just too nice to pass up.
It's a very well put together. I played GG western front for about 2 days because it was the same old game. This adds other dimensions that make it very unique
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 13, 2015, 11:09:05 PM
I think it's worth noting that the game, while large (because Barbarossa, duh), isn't all that large. Each front probably has fewer chits to shuffle around than, say, any mission of Unity of Command: Black Turn (which is also Barbarossa). And I'm saying that as the Soviet player! This isn't a game with 36 thousand tanks waiting for the Huns.
A refreshing respite from the traditional death by a thousand counters approach to war games.
Let me Sum up "this game is the SH*t" ;D
Well that's the best game review I've read in a long, long time. Thanks. Budd!
Definitely worth full price, no question. Buy with confidence if you're interested in the topic at all.
I mean, sure, if you can get it on sale, duh. But to me it's worth the non-sale price.
That said, I wouldn't personally recommend going for the hard copy, at least on non-sale price. Having a backup on disc is something I'm always willing to pay an extra $10 for, but the hardback manual while large and shiny is really just bling.
The hardcover manual is just chrome!!!!!! If you are playing currently as Stalin, shoot yourself for TREASON!!! :knuppel2:
It has been ages since I've seen such a fine manual. It brings back wonderful memories of; EA's Seal-team, Dynamix's Red Baron, LucasArts Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Sierra's Police Quest, Falcon series (never played, but always admired the manual). Ohhh the memories.
These manuals not only directed you play the game in a way that was realistic, they also gave you a history lesson. These manuals also inspired me to buy books that were based upon the real stories that the games were based on. It seems over the years that has been lost, at least that is the way I feel.
I think we should start a separate post on some of the best game manuals ever made.
Anyways keep up the posts on this game, the reviews here and at Matrix forums have me very excited about purchasing this game. On a side note, I have just purchased Osprey Publishing's- Operation Barbarossa 1941, 1-3 in order to get a better understanding of the battle I soon will partake in.
Have a Merry Christmas, armchair Warriors.
Now that's dedication!
I didn't say the manual was just chrome. I said having it in hardback is just chrome ("while large and shiny is really just bling"). The digital game still has the manual on pdf, where by the way it's more searchable.
to be fair, that's what he said :D
Quote
The hardcover manual is just chrome!!!!!! If you are playing currently as Stalin, shoot yourself for TREASON!!! :knuppel2:
I guess I missed the joke: why would I shoot myself for treason if he agrees the hardcover per se is just chrome? ???
He wasn't agreeing (**I don't think**)
I read it as him asking the question (and incorrectly using exclamation marks instead of question marks) - as in "The hardcover manual is just chrome??????"
The reason I read it like that is because of what came after "If you are currently playing as Stalin, shoot yourself for treason"
I guess it's all moot now...explaining a joke removes all humour intended :)
Well, even paranoids have enemies. O0
lol - I'm sure they do
New map mod released, loaded it up and it looks great.Screenshots in the thread.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4019970&mpage=1&key=�
If you use JSME just unzip to the mod folder and activate, the folder structure is good to go.
New beta patch up. Highlighted by a free setup variant for both sides. The moving of units in the free setup variant is limited to the theater they start in, but still a nice option.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4014874
Nice!
Something odd, that I can't figure out if it's a bug or not (or has been patched out if so), is that I know Barth and I started out game with what should have been the ability to make special historical decisions that affected gameplay (and also raised and lowered our respective difficulty multipliers). But I haven't seen a hair of that yet, when I think I should have seen many (if not all) those options on turn 1.
I haven't read his thread yet, of course, since (as far as I know! :o :P) our game isn't finished, so maybe this only applies to the Germans, and Barth simply refused to take any of the options? -- or it only applies to the Russians insofar as the Germans take any options, so since he didn't take any I don't get any chance to? :-\
I somehow still haven't picked up DC Barbarossa, despite adoring the first two games in the series.
Think I'll have to rectify that later today. Game's been out for a bit, has gotten glowing feedback from players, and now a patch. Seems like the right time to dive in.
"The best available gateway strategy game for S&M couples!" -- Grogheads
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 24, 2016, 09:56:33 AM
Nice!
Something odd, that I can't figure out if it's a bug or not (or has been patched out if so), is that I know Barth and I started out game with what should have been the ability to make special historical decisions that affected gameplay (and also raised and lowered our respective difficulty multipliers). But I haven't seen a hair of that yet, when I think I should have seen many (if not all) those options on turn 1.
I haven't read his thread yet, of course, since (as far as I know! :o :P) our game isn't finished, so maybe this only applies to the Germans, and Barth simply refused to take any of the options? -- or it only applies to the Russians insofar as the Germans take any options, so since he didn't take any I don't get any chance to? :-\
Yes we're still playing ... just me needing to get some prioritizing done. :P Although we are way out of date with the patches....
Not sure what "special historical" decisions you mean though...? There are buttons to get special help in the form of extra fuel/PP/etc, is that what you mean? .... Hard to talk with your opponent without giving anything away! :D
No, I don't mean those helper superpower buttons. I'm at the office so I can't point to what I mean. Um... like, we both should have had options about how to relate to Finland. My option never activated. Yours, or one of yours, would have been the option to bring them into the war automatically, allowing them to move beyond their border (the B line), instead of waiting until you took those key coastal cities leading to Leningrad.
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 24, 2016, 03:22:07 PM
No, I don't mean those helper superpower buttons. I'm at the office so I can't point to what I mean. Um... like, we both should have had options about how to relate to Finland. My option never activated. Yours, or one of yours, would have been the option to bring them into the war automatically, allowing them to move beyond their border (the B line), instead of waiting until you took those key coastal cities leading to Leningrad.
Hmmmm... truthfully I've never gotten this far into the game... :D I not sure when/if that's supposed to happen.... I've been waiting for the Finnish decision to come up....
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 24, 2016, 10:02:36 AM
I somehow still haven't picked up DC Barbarossa, despite adoring the first two games in the series.
Think I'll have to rectify that later today. Game's been out for a bit, has gotten glowing feedback from players, and now a patch. Seems like the right time to dive in.
Same here....I was hoping it might have made it into the big Steam sale but it didn't.
It's not in the Steam sale because the game isn't on Steam yet.
I'm pretty sure Vic and Cameron want it there, and it will probably get there eventually, but given that its getting there involves a conversation between Matrix and Valve, things could take a while.
So unless Matrix suddenly has an epiphany about the relationship between supply and demand curves, your best bet is to buy from Matrix because they'll issue you a free Steam key if the migration ever occurs.
Note that buying a Matrix game from Matrix can get you a Steam key, but buying a Matrix game from Steam doesn't get you the Matrix version. I doubt that Steam will go bust any time soon so that isn't an issue, but if someone hacks your Steam account it's nice to have a back-up as well as an incontrovertible way of proving you own the game.
Hope my fellow grogheads are still playing this as I just purchased the whole shebang (love printed manuals !!) Hope I get my moneys worth ?!! Bruce
Podcast
https://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/
Episode 345:
Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa
February 26, 2016 Bruce and Troy "I know his ideas are weird but let's just hear him out" Goodfellow are joined by Rod Humble to talk about Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa. The latest entry in the Decisive Campaigns series adds intriguing elements of roleplaying into the wargaming formula as the player attempts to sway, cajole, and stay on the good side of superiors and fellow staff.
Barth and I are still at our multiplayer AAR campaign (for anyone wanting an example of each side learning the quite different ropes).
New patch : updated to version 1.03
http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1928/Decisive.Campaigns:.Barbarossa.has.been.updated.to.version.1.03p!
Change log : http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4066754&mpage=1&key=�
The game is going to be released on Steam some time later today.
Quote from: Philippe on April 28, 2016, 08:53:45 AM
The game is going to be released on Steam some time later today.
I'm afraid it is delayed : http://steamcommunity.com/games/454530/announcements/detail/826785028384598720
28 april - SlithFox
Hi all,
We have encountered some unexpected technical issues, and unfortunately we are not able to release Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa today as originally planned.
It will come.
Paradoxically, it won't do me any good for a while, because I don't want to risk screwing up the game I'm already running vs. Bartheart; so I wouldn't convert to a Steam version until after we're done.
On the other hand, if Barth wants to risk trying to install it from Steam, more power to him! :D >:D
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 28, 2016, 10:26:37 AM
It will come.
Paradoxically, it won't do me any good for a while, because I don't want to risk screwing up the game I'm already running vs. Bartheart; so I wouldn't convert to a Steam version until after we're done.
On the other hand, if Barth wants to risk trying to install it from Steam, more power to him! :D >:D
Funny guy.... :P
It is out on Steam now (20% off until may 6).