Alternate Combat System for RPGs that Roll for Damage

[gameleaper]

I was thinking about an interesting way to inflict damage on HitPoints in RPGs like D&D or other types of RPGs, I made the assigning damage into a further battle for how much to inflict, Its fun :)

Alternate Combat sysytem for D&D RPGs or other RPGs that roll Dice for Dammage, all the hit damage is from your rules are used in calculating the damage inflicted, but makes for a more intense battle, and gives a feeling of strategy in selecting your battle dice.

If a hit is caused by rolling a to 'hit roll' or is an autamatic, use the following dice battle battle

(eg 3d4s damage would have a total of 12, you can split it into a d4 ad6 and a remainder or 2)

The total damage that can be inflicted, then secretly divide the total number into smaller numbers(all numbers must match a type of die, EG a 6 = D6 a 4 = D4 a 8 = D8 a 20 = a D20), now keep all remainders(but Remainder has to be equal or less to the lowest die). (BOTH players use the same total number)

Now each Combatant rolls the lowest type of die to get an attack result, if one of the combatants dosnt have the correct Die then the Remainder value is his attack result(if the combatant without a die loses then he now loses his remainder)

if the defending combatant dosnt have a die or a remainder he imediatly losses the round and the HitPoints are reduced by the die, but if the attacker dose not have the correct die or remainder battle damage now stops (so it pays to have the dice needed, but a big die would likly win the roll, so a d20 would probably win a d6 - but if you lose your remainder value your d20 would be worthless) the HitPoints are reduced by the winning die roll, but if the defending combatant rolls higher the attacker looses the chance to damage, if its a tie then no damage is done with this roll

and finaly if all die on both sides are gone and only the remainders are left, then the highest remainder wins, a tie is a draw(no damage).


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the above system could be modified to include Dodge in the total number for the defender, or other such modifiers

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[gameleaper]

Id prob have to write a rule system for this to work, but I think small battles can get interesting with this approach maybe :)

[Nefaro]

I don't remember all of them, but there have been numerous RPGs which combined Damage, Hit Location, and Success into one roll. 

Ofc they used multiple dice in every roll, but that's a good thing even without combining all the results into one.   

The FFG rpgs, with the funny dice pools, is a more recent example.

[gameleaper]

Maybe a difficulty number assigned by GM then all events! aswell or combat worked out with one dice pool mechanism like this maybe. Its a work in progress

[Nefaro]

Maybe a difficulty number assigned by GM then all events! aswell or combat worked out with one dice pool mechanism like this maybe. Its a work in progress

I also really enjoy being able to "spend" excess successes from such dice pools, sometimes of varying success types, on extra damage/effects.  Especially the extra effects & interpretations encouraged by it.

Not only a thing in FFG's Star Wars/WFRP systems, but also in the 2d20 rpgs from Modiphius and the Dragon Age/Fantasy Age lines.  I've seen it mentioned, in multiple reviews, as one of the best things about the Fantasy Age system.

[gameleaper]

spending excess damage is a nice addition to an action, I shall have to go find my StarWars RPG book and have a looksey.

[Nefaro]

spending excess damage is a nice addition to an action, I shall have to go find my StarWars RPG book and have a looksey.

The FFG Star Wars mechanics are on the thinner end for spending extra successes, but it has a little.  It encourages narrative flair & effects along with doing extra damage and crits, but also has a few basic extras (recovering Stress for example).  Two different types of successes to spend.  Also has them for the vehicle & starship combat, especially multi-crew starship combat. 

The 2d20 Modiphius systems, from the same guy who created FFG Star Wars, has more options but from each extra success.  I imagine the starship combat in the upcoming Star Trek RPG from them, using the same core system, will have even more on that part.  Their Cyberpunk-40k-ish themed Mutant Chronicles 3rd Edition has a good spread of options, for example. 

Igniting target with a flamethrower, or hitting extra targets with a burst from your machinegun, as just a few examples of extra success spenders that depend on the specific weapons' special traits.  Then there are spenders for providing bonuses to other friendly characters.  Think of spenders like Suppressing the next enemy to fire on your buddy, giving them a penalty to hit, and all kinds of other possibilities (knocking target down, causing some kind of special condition, etc).  I think the soon-to-be released Conan 2d20 will be a bit simpler since it doesn't have people firing mini-guns, rocket launchers, and large vehicle/spaceship weapons, but still has some.

The Fantasy Age (and Dragon Age rpg) system has been pretty popular for it.  Looks like a pretty easy system, but it also uses a dice pool system (aka "buckets 'o dice") with accompanying extra spender options.  I've not picked one of those up yet, but browsing through the Introductory PDF gives a small glimpse. 

Savage Worlds kinda has this, too, although each attack/spell/etc usually only has one option for using extra successes on.  So not fully in this category.


This is one of the notable features that separates the old style RPGs from the new, IMO.  You may need to print a list of options out for players of the crunchier ones, but that's no big deal compared to the possibilities that can be had (both narrative and mechanical).

[gameleaper]

I suppose these games have excess failures too, like landing a plain could crash fail, and excess destroy the runway. a driver could crash a car and destroy a second car. one really good effect would be a nuclear sub having a crash and in turn has a meltdown, then pollutes the islands its near , what a failure that would be :)

[gameleaper]

I used to think the easier an RPG was the better, but once it became clear how they work , you want thick books with lots of skills and equipment etc... all carefully calculated for the setting, I first read lots of the 3 main core books for d&d3.5 and I was sunk not being able to play, but now I can see how good they are. I also thought when I could play I would not need books, but its the opposite ,I now need big books full of info all calculated for the characters ability stats , so I can see why the new star trek RPG is going to be great. I do think the storytelling rules used in the new World of darkness are great though , and I bought trinity with those rules too, I can play d20 , but playing solo you don't want a whole evening developing 4 chars sheets before you can start playing, storyteller rules allow char creation in a few minites and it suits solo for me anyway.

[Nefaro]

I suppose these games have excess failures too, like landing a plain could crash fail, and excess destroy the runway. a driver could crash a car and destroy a second car. one really good effect would be a nuclear sub having a crash and in turn has a meltdown, then pollutes the islands its near , what a failure that would be :)

Definitely.  Some more than others, of course, but they also have varying bad results which encourage different levels of nastiness be inflicted.  >:D

A few don't even track ammo at all, but instead use some of the rolled negative effects as spenders to make their weapon run empty.  Or a myriad of other things.  Some kind of Stress or Mental "damage" is also pretty popular in these systems, along with a number of conditions, mutations, or Dark Side sliding they can eventually cause. 

I used to think the easier an RPG was the better, but once it became clear how they work , you want thick books with lots of skills and equipment etc... all carefully calculated for the setting, I first read lots of the 3 main core books for d&d3.5 and I was sunk not being able to play, but now I can see how good they are. I also thought when I could play I would not need books, but its the opposite ,I now need big books full of info all calculated for the characters ability stats , so I can see why the new star trek RPG is going to be great. I do think the storytelling rules used in the new World of darkness are great though , and I bought trinity with those rules too, I can play d20 , but playing solo you don't want a whole evening developing 4 chars sheets before you can start playing, storyteller rules allow char creation in a few minites and it suits solo for me anyway.

Yes, generally.  As long as the core mechanics aren't an overloaded mess, you can always use whichever others parts you want (if it's initially too crunchy for you).   I'd also rather have more than less, since some of it can be trimmed if need be.  Better to have it available at your fingertips than have to spend the extra time & thought adding custom new stuff to a system that ends up being too thin for you.


Lifepath character creation.    While I've always enjoyed creating characters, the few RPGs with so-called "lifepath" creation are, by far, the most enjoyable.  Almost like playing a mini-game in itself. 

I think Traveller is the most well known rpg with a lifepath gen system, since it's been around so long, but some recent RPGs have been using them too and even adding more character history hooks & personality than before.  The 2d20s have it, although each one is a bit different.  Shadowrun 5th has a supplement with an alternate lifepath creation system.  I'll mention MC3 again because it also gives you a few points to spend in choosing exactly what you want on some of the lifepath tables (but not all of them).  Great mix.  They're a great way to get a jump start on character backstory and get the imagination going quickly.  Wish more used it.


I was impressed with D&D 3.0 when I got it back in 2001, or whenever it first came out.  I didn't mind the crunch, but I've still sworn off all things D&D, including that one.  Due to two things.  1) Class rigidity, and 2) DRM Hell & Playing The Odds.  The first is probably self-explanatory, but the DRM & Odds thing is the same problem with almost all the old school rpgs.  One die is rolled (or a pair added together in some way), but you have to go through multiple sources of + and -, up-down-up, and it turns into a "Math Playing Game" instead of a Role Playing Game.  Top that off with knowing exactly what your chances are of succeeding beforehand and it can take me out of the climactic moment.  Give me dice pools any day, where you just toss in a good or bad die for each +/-.  All the funky symbols, or hordes of variously colored dice with different effects make your % chance of success a bit less obvious at a glance.  And a more interesting result than just pass/fail/crit at the end.  Keep some extra mystery in there, I say!   ^-^

There is still value in having light systems, too.  For me, they have to not only avoid my two negative aspects listed above, but they must also have plenty evocative "fluff" & setting content.  I'm a 'Monster List' whore, so if there aren't many & varied pre-made baddies ready to go then I'm disappointed.  As one example.  Even easy-to-learn RPGs still need a good amount of content to have value for me.

I was interested in checking out World of Darkness years ago, but never got around to it.  I recall it looking "Lite" but interesting.  Although I never quite went over the fence to pick it up.  Not sure if I'd ever get a group interested in it over others I have, but that doesn't necessarily stop me from acquiring such games.  :)

[gameleaper]

This is the best deal on nWoD You will ever see, but its PDFs, but I think you can upgrade to real books, you get nWoD and Vampire the Masquerade and Vampire the requiem, plus a translation book, all costs less than each one on its own.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/86203/Vampire-Translation-Toolkit-BUNDLE?filters=0_0_1800_0_0

Vampire Translation Toolkit [BUNDLE]

Total value: $56.94
Special bundle price: $14.97
Savings of: $41.97 (74%)




includes
-------------------------------
World of Darkness Rulebook
Regular price: $14.99
Bundle price: $3.94
-------------------------------
Vampire: The Requiem
Regular price: $19.99
Bundle price: $5.26
-------------------------------
Vampire Translation Guide
Regular price: $3.99
Bundle price: $1.05
-------------------------------
Vampire: The Masquerade - Revised Edition
Regular price: $17.97
Bundle price: $4.72
--------------------------------



I would also recommend World of Darkness: Antagonists, and World of Darkness: Armory, I don't have these two but there on my list, essential addons.

also this is the New first edition version called nWoD, the 2nd edition uses cards I think and I didn't want to print or wait for the delivery, the nWoD 2nd edition is called cronicles of darkness, but you will need correct addons for 2nd edition.

the nWoD character creation is believable and has all the creation method on the sheet, you can do a character in about 4 minites, with very little book reading. it really is why I like RPGs, and then if you like this then you can backup in time and get WoD Classic system with thousands of addons, but I like nWoD much better I still love all the addons for classic. there both dice pool systems, then I bought trinity bundle for classic storytelling system they have a bundle offer DriveThruRPG.com is the same as RpgNOW.com different banner. I think the classic WoD is gritty with some of the great addons, I just spoiled for choice, there are the exaulted 1st second and 3rd editions but I did not care for the setting with gods I think. but solo play you cant beat nWoD for a fast game setup, so from concept to play in 30mins and you can play a solo game in one night. but it also has deep stuff too the armory I don't have has all the weapons, I think I'm going to buy it now, its in a bundle with dogs of war for soldiers etc...

imagine things like chases, you start of 10 yards away, you get some d10s and the prey gets some d10s now you both roll and the gap increases or decreases, if the gap say gets beyond 15 you loose them, so the hunt is on. this is the sort of thing I love about the system.

[Nefaro]

Sounds a bit like the chase rules in the "action movie rpg" Feng Shui 2, although I think that one may be even more abbreviated regarding vehicle distance.   It's also one of those easy-to-start RPGs without too much crunchy front end, but encourages a bunch of crazy narrative stuff.  I can see why it was nominated for a bunch of ENnie awards this year.   

I'll keep an eye on WoD.  Don't they still have a ton of sub-genres for it, other than Vampire? 

Didn't realize there is a newer 2nd edition.  I'm not afraid of using ability cards.  Actually prefer them because it saves look-ups or having to write all the info down for each pc/npc myself.

[gameleaper]

Sounds a bit like the chase rules in the "action movie rpg" Feng Shui 2, although I think that one may be even more abbreviated regarding vehicle distance.   It's also one of those easy-to-start RPGs without too much crunchy front end, but encourages a bunch of crazy narrative stuff.  I can see why it was nominated for a bunch of ENnie awards this year.   

I'll keep an eye on WoD.  Don't they still have a ton of sub-genres for it, other than Vampire? 

Didn't realize there is a newer 2nd edition.  I'm not afraid of using ability cards.  Actually prefer them because it saves look-ups or having to write all the info down for each pc/npc myself.

there is WoD classic
then nWoD
then nWoD 2nd Ed

the classic had a lot of sub books , the nWoD are nearly selfcontained some need nWoD core but its not reliant on having lots of books unless you want them.

I just bought Armory, and Antagonists, and Demon, So I'm in for a whammy of a read tonight :) 

PS  because I already owned nWoD book the demon bundle was discounted, so if you bought the above bundle, and then bought demon starter kit, your getting most books for chicken feed price :)

[Nefaro]

I'll eventually try nWoD 2nd edition, and perhaps Mage.  I don't really have a unique modern supernatural-occult-horror rpg setting at the moment, so those will probably fit the bill. 

I still had the Leagues of Gothic Horror & Leagues Of Adventure books next on my list.   The Ubiquity system is approximately on the same level as WoD's IIRC.  I had been looking for a supernat-occult-horror setting in the late 1800s, with a fairly easy but still flexible rules set & dice pool.

Since Triple Ace has the LoA core hardback selling for $10 lower than SRP on their site, it's next up.  Especially since they're about the only ones selling it right now... retailers are mostly out.

Coincidentally the Ubiquity system also calculates damage directly from your success roll, as we were discussing earlier.  At least, in the one title I already own.

[gameleaper]

I don't play nWoD darkness everyday and I lose mechanincs until I refresh, but in a brawl you roll your dice pool and successes are deducted from Health, but there are different types of damage Bashing,Leathal, and Really bad.

I liked the look of shadowrun 3rd bargain that was suggested, but I think I'm hooked on nWoD, ~If you find something you love I think that's the way I should go, I'm stopping all other buying

I bought Mage and Werewolf, but both were different than I imagined so far, Ive not read much but it seems off the beaten track of movies I watched.werewolf is about the spirit world and Mage I just don't know, Vampire is like the films Underworld were about

I belive there is a dark ages sub set of books, not sure if there for nWoD but definatly WoD Classic, IIRC the Addons like vampire have there own dark ages version

There cards I think are addons, you can use or not, the 2nd Edition nWoD is called cronicles of darkness, and the addons are more independent from core rules than older editions, but there may still be some that use core.

Its great with nWoD you go from human to supernatural by adding onto your char sheet the extras.

I love using the fate chart from mythic in solo , the chaos factor does great for unexpected yes / no answers,

I may have to buy the Mummy and The Hunter next week :) then I can start adding to them.

I like the site http://www.tripleacegames.com I shall peruse for cheap PDFs