It's probably the genre nearest my heart. I've played nearly all of them. I'm constantly hunting for them new and old, and it's rare that one escapes my attention. Some I've loved, some I've hated and some were just meh. Almost all of them, no matter how good overall, are still missing some feature, some element or detail, that eventually makes we want to move on to something else. I really wish I had the ability to make my own game...the ultimate game of intergalactic exploration and conquest including all the best features from all the best games and adding new details and features that are rare or even overlooked completely. Until someone makes this dream game, I'll continue to rotate through my catalog.
Tonight, I played Stellaris, Polaris Sector, Star Shadow, Galactic Civ III and Distant Worlds Universe. These are all games I really enjoy, but I just couldn't get into them. Finally, I decided to load up v7.10 of Aurora. It's a game I've dabbled in periodically over the years, but never really played for long enough to truly understand. It's complexity is what has drawn me to it, and also kept me away from it at the same time. However, something clicked tonight and I feel pretty motivated to stick with it for awhile. There are some really good tutorial series now on YouTube and I'm playing along with Quill. I've started a conventional prewarp empire. Constructed a military academy, appointed some military and civilian leaders, begun research and mining and have requisitioned an increase in ship construction capability to 3000 tons. The level of detail in this game seems truly remarkable, but it's hard to tell how well it will come together in the end. I have to research a few more techs before I'll be able to start expanding to the stars, but I really look forward to exploring the universe, designing authentic ship classes, building fleets, recruiting legions, making first contact and conquering the stars.
I hope the lack of rich production features, graphics and sound, doesn't hold me back or make me lose interest...it seems, however, that this game can be limited only by one's own imagination.
its a well done game because its ignored the graphics.
The podcast about Aurora on The Strategy Gamer is a good listen.
Basically the conclusion is that the game is a superb story telling tool because of all its intricacies, but as a game it begins to crumble once you actually have a space faring civ setup.
The AI for other races is very bare bones aparently.
There is virtually no diplomacy in the game either.
Its much like Dwarf Fortress in that respect: you start you game knowing you will loose at some point, but the journey itself is pretty fun.
Some of the AARs out there are truly interesting reads, but for me Aurora is a bit like EVE Online and Elite: I find it much more entertaining to read about it than to play it.
But I don't want to come off too negative!
I also played alongside Quill. He does a great job and made me click with Aurora as well! It IS a truly remarkable project and is fun to explore all its workings, but in the end it just is too obvious that you're playing a big Access / Excel project on a galactic scope. :)
Tortuga Power did a groovey series on Aurora 4X with a Star Trek RP theme.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuXzIAdwiCCz_Zo6Qm_FdKqTF9C99HsDn
Depending on how far you want to go with quill Iirc he gave up after about 32 videos because he couldn't find any other races - not essential but just to let you know it's not complete
There's a 125 video one to watch but it gets old very soon
Excellent 'game' I've put a lot of time into it
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 20, 2018, 11:15:37 PM
It's probably the genre nearest my heart. I've played nearly all of them. I'm constantly hunting for them new and old, and it's rare that one escapes my attention. Some I've loved, some I've hated and some were just meh. Almost all of them, no matter how good overall, are still missing some feature, some element or detail, that eventually makes we want to move on to something else. I really wish I had the ability to make my own game...the ultimate game of intergalactic exploration and conquest including all the best features from all the best games and adding new details and features that are rare or even overlooked completely. Until someone makes this dream game, I'll continue to rotate through my catalog.
A little off field maybe, but have you ever thought of going the board game route? This does allow you to design your own game - even if this just means finding one you're keen on & tweaking it as required. I've had fun doing this with age of sail games, and though I'm not acquainted with space 4X board games, there are several base games (some solo-able) out there that you could use - ie: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/84419/space-empires-4x
^thanks for the suggestion, phantom. In fact, I have considered board games. Just this week I posted a question in the tabletop wargaming forum about Twilight Imperium 4th edition. The biggest problem with board games for me is a lack of willing players. There really are no other gamers in my life or social circles. It's a big limiting factor. :(
Space empires looks like a nice solo option, but might be a bit dry for me...it's affordable though, so maybe I'll take a closer look.
I watched the spelk posted video...very intriguing game. Is it turn based, and if so how many years is a turn?
Jarhead, have you looked at Endless Space 2?
Quote from: Geezer on January 21, 2018, 09:01:42 AM
Jarhead, have you looked at Endless Space 2?
Yup. Got it. Very interesting and sharp looking game, but still not the ultimate.
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2018, 08:30:20 AM
I watched the spelk posted video...very intriguing game. Is it turn based, and if so how many years is a turn?
It advances in pulses of time, as little as 5 seconds to as much as 30 days. You can advance time manually, or in auto pulses which will stop upon the occurrence of an event.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 21, 2018, 07:31:53 AM
^thanks for the suggestion, phantom. In fact, I have considered board games. Just this week I posted a question in the tabletop wargaming forum about Twilight Imperium 4th edition. The biggest problem with board games for me is a lack of willing players. There really are no other gamers in my life or social circles. It's a big limiting factor. :(
Space empires looks like a nice solo option, but might be a bit dry for me...it's affordable though, so maybe I'll take a closer look.
Also consider playing Space Empire IV Deluxe solo (hotseat) if you have it.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 21, 2018, 07:31:53 AM
^thanks for the suggestion, phantom. In fact, I have considered board games. Just this week I posted a question in the tabletop wargaming forum about Twilight Imperium 4th edition. The biggest problem with board games for me is a lack of willing players. There really are no other gamers in my life or social circles. It's a big limiting factor. :(
Space empires looks like a nice solo option, but might be a bit dry for me...it's affordable though, so maybe I'll take a closer look.
Jh - have you looked for a club locally?
No one is more antisocial than me and my biggest dread was finding a room full of nerds - the no other life type ones - but it turns out it's a room full of like minded people, they go to work, and come and play games afterwards
Quote from: bbmike on January 21, 2018, 09:43:38 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 21, 2018, 07:31:53 AM
^thanks for the suggestion, phantom. In fact, I have considered board games. Just this week I posted a question in the tabletop wargaming forum about Twilight Imperium 4th edition. The biggest problem with board games for me is a lack of willing players. There really are no other gamers in my life or social circles. It's a big limiting factor. :(
Space empires looks like a nice solo option, but might be a bit dry for me...it's affordable though, so maybe I'll take a closer look.
Also consider playing Space Empire IV Deluxe solo (hotseat) if you have it.
Got it. Although it has many details and options lacking in other games...it always struck me as "hollow" or soulless, if that makes sense. It never grabbed me.
JH....the Aurora 4X wiki page lists two installation methods. First is manual, which has some complexity to it. Second is called Portable Aurora, supposedly much simpler. Which did you do? Any suggestions?
Steve is working a completely revamped Aurora, written in C#. He's been providing updates with screenshots, and has been making design changes.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=234.0
JH,
Have you looked at Starfire, it's a tabletop game. Looks like it could be pretty deep. I've been tempted to purchase at different times, but figured I wouldn't find anyone to play with. I did notice a few months ago one of the new members said he plays. Perhaps we could get a game going here.
OJ could you link StarFire please? There seem to be lots of games called that. :)
AdAstra Games has a very interesting space game.
www.adastragames.com
Not really 4x, more like a super detailed capitalship/combat simulator.
Space Empires boardgame looks nice too. Seem well suited for play by forum!
Quote from: OJsDad on January 21, 2018, 01:57:16 PM
Steve is working a completely revamped Aurora, written in C#. He's been providing updates with screenshots, and has been making design changes.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=234.0
Aurora 2 has been in the works for years. Development is at a slow crawl, if not on hold for the moment. No telling when it will be finished. I wish Steve would make this a paid project and quit his day job, but I know his preference is to keep it as a hobby, instead of work. He's made no promises to anybody because he has accepted no money and I believe he likes it that way.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 21, 2018, 02:52:03 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on January 21, 2018, 01:57:16 PM
Steve is working a completely revamped Aurora, written in C#. He's been providing updates with screenshots, and has been making design changes.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=234.0
Aurora 2 has been in the works for years. Development is at a slow crawl, if not on hold for the moment. No telling when it will be finished. I wish Steve would snake this a paid project and quit his day job, but I know his preference is to keep it as a hobby, instead of work. He's made no promises to anybody because he has accepted no money and I believe he likes it that way.
I haven't looked closely at star fire, but I know it's Steve's primary inspiration for Aurora.
Aurora 2 was never a Steve project, it was a community project. The C# project is all Steve. He started it last year and seems to be making steady progress on it. Apologies JH, you are correct, Aurora 2 was something that Steve started discussing in 2010.
The C# section I linked earlier is a totally new topic that was started in 2016. But there are lots of posts from Steve, including from this year.
Quote from: Yskonyn on January 21, 2018, 02:31:45 PM
OJ could you link StarFire please? There seem to be lots of games called that. :)
http://www.starfiredesign.com/starfire/
There are a few different verions. I would lean more toward Ultra, which seems to be a combo of 4x and tactical game.
Thanks OJ!
I'll take a look.
Do you think it would work well as Play by Forum? Or is there an electronic version around (VASSAL or such)?
I'm not seeing a Vassal module for Ultra, but there may be one out there.
Aurora 2 was never a Steve project, it was a community project. The C# project is all Steve. He started it last year and seems to be making steady progress on it.
Apologies JH, you are correct, Aurora 2 was something that Steve started discussing in 2010.
The C# section I linked earlier is a totally new topic that was started in 2016. But there are lots of posts from Steve, including from this year.
Isn't that the old Task Force Games StarFire? (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fold.gif&hash=84795a126d2d2ae2464dec70f5c4a071b21b8caa)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 21, 2018, 10:32:45 AM
Quote from: bbmike on January 21, 2018, 09:43:38 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 21, 2018, 07:31:53 AM
^thanks for the suggestion, phantom. In fact, I have considered board games. Just this week I posted a question in the tabletop wargaming forum about Twilight Imperium 4th edition. The biggest problem with board games for me is a lack of willing players. There really are no other gamers in my life or social circles. It's a big limiting factor. :(
Space empires looks like a nice solo option, but might be a bit dry for me...it's affordable though, so maybe I'll take a closer look.
Also consider playing Space Empire IV Deluxe solo (hotseat) if you have it.
Got it. Although it has many details and options lacking in other games...it always struck me as "hollow" or soulless, if that makes sense. It never grabbed me.
Agree, but if you play it solo you can make it more interesting. Also, Armada 2526 allows solo hotseat play.
Re: StarFire
The free QuickStart Rules can be obtained here: http://www.wargamevault.com/product/213075/Quick-Start-Rules
The QSR do not cover campaign play.
According to the official forums StarFire Solar (the latest and a rework of Ultra with a focus less on tournament play and more on narrative) is the recommended version if you want to create big sweeping campaigns.
It definately looks like this game hardly knows any bounds. You can truely craft your own endless fully featured space 4x, but the rulebook is over 400 pages!
It comes down to wether we can / want to put in the effort to learn this, cause I am sure it wont be the game that's limiting; fully modelled ships, fleet combat, exploration. Its mind boggling deep. 😳
Looks like there are quite a few aids out there to help
http://www.starfiredesign.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=96
I played the heck out of SE3 and 4. I did not play 5 much. My favorite was 3. The series weakness was ai. SE4 and 5 had really poor AIs. The games have so much content that learning them took enough time to justify the price.
I spent most of the latter half of the weekend playing Aurora. With Quill's assistance, I've managed to set up an automated mining operation on Venus, send colonists to Mars, where more than 2,000,000 humans presently reside, and set up three civilian shipping lines who have established at least 6 mining operations on various dwarf planets and asteroids in the Milky Way. The next big step will be successfully researching jump theory. Its at that time, that I will be able to construct gravitational surveyors in order to really open up the galaxy.
I've designed and built small geo survey vessels, large cargo haulers and a colony vessel class to bring men and supplies to nearby worlds. It won't be long before the focus shifts to the Navy and military pursuits. I'm sure humanity is not alone...
As spartan as the game is in terms of production value, its a strikingly rewarding game and very enjoyable, even if it is a just a glorified spreadsheet. I'm not sure its the "ultimate" space 4x, but it certainly scratches many of the itches.
Sigh. Now I'm going to have to look at this game and those Quill videos.
Quote from: bbmike on January 22, 2018, 08:39:26 AM
Sigh. Now I'm going to have to look at this game and those Quill videos.
The first 4 videos in his series were really great. He does a really good job of explaining what to do and why, particularly with early game priorities. After the 4th video, I had the confidence to start charting my own course and so I started to diverge from Quill's strategy. Mainly with respect to research priority, mining and colony creation. Also, he starts skipping some time between videos, so he would perform certain tasks, like ship building, research, and setting up colonies or moving infrastructure and automated mines to asteroids and comets, etc., between videos. Diverging from his strategy was in part necessary due to differences in the galaxies we were playing in, since they are all generated differently each time and his solar system was populated with valuable minerals in different locations and with different accessibility than in mine. Still, I found the rest of his videos useful for key tasks.
The complexity of the game can certainly be daunting, but I'm finding that the more comfortable I get with the system and methodology, the more it all makes sense. If someone could take this game and add more visual flare to present the information in a more enjoyable and manageable way, the game would be a killer instant classic. Steve sees this game as a really niche product with low user appeal. However, that is only because he's built it around a spreadsheet. Personally, I think he is sitting on a goldmine and if the right graphics, sound and production values were added, I'm quite confident Aurora could be the real Civilization in space we have all been searching for.
No interest in Starfire Solar forum play then? 😊
JH.....(repeat post)....the Aurora 4X wiki page lists two installation methods. First is manual, which has some complexity to it. Second is called Portable Aurora, supposedly much simpler. Which did you do? Any suggestions? Sorry for the repeat post but I really am interested in which download to go with...or is there another?
Quote from: Rayfer on January 22, 2018, 11:58:31 AM
JH.....(repeat post)....the Aurora 4X wiki page lists two installation methods. First is manual, which has some complexity to it. Second is called Portable Aurora, supposedly much simpler. Which did you do? Any suggestions? Sorry for the repeat post but I really am interested in which download to go with...or is there another?
It's been awhile since I installed Aurora, but I used the Portable.
Quote from: Rayfer on January 22, 2018, 11:58:31 AM
JH.....(repeat post)....the Aurora 4X wiki page lists two installation methods. First is manual, which has some complexity to it. Second is called Portable Aurora, supposedly much simpler. Which did you do? Any suggestions? Sorry for the repeat post but I really am interested in which download to go with...or is there another?
Like OJ, I definitely used the portable package.
This kind of like WITP AE in Space?
Quote from: Tuna on January 22, 2018, 12:28:05 PM
This kind of like WITP AE in Space?
Its more like what you would get if WitP had a menage a trois with WitE and WitW, resulting in the birth of a love child.
Maybe he should hook up with Matrix and get some Graphics going!
Quote from: Tuna on January 22, 2018, 12:34:08 PM
Maybe he should hook up with Matrix and get some Graphics going!
Steve doesn't want to commercialize Aurora. Once he does that, it is no longer his personnel hobby that he can do with as he pleases.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 22, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on January 22, 2018, 11:58:31 AM
JH.....(repeat post)....the Aurora 4X wiki page lists two installation methods. First is manual, which has some complexity to it. Second is called Portable Aurora, supposedly much simpler. Which did you do? Any suggestions? Sorry for the repeat post but I really am interested in which download to go with...or is there another?
Like OJ, I definitely used the portable package.
Thanks....I think I give a whirl.
The real geek fun begins when you have to design your own search and fire control radars and missle systems. Haven't played in a few years and I have 6 new games I purchased in the holiday sales. Must resist ignoring new games to play old favorites.
Ok, here is a crazy idea regarding Aurora multiplayer:
Would it work if you let each participating player create an Empire in Space Master mode.
Then we start the game and player 1 plays his Empire for say 1 game year (to be determined), while the other Empires are on autopilot.
Then the game gets saved, player 2 switches to his/her Empire in Space Master mode and then play another year.
This way we let the savegame go round and round and effectively have Aurora multiplayer going!
The wiki actually refers to Space Master mode as being derived from Dungeon Master. And facilitates the switching/creation and editing of Player and Non-Player Races.
O0
Jarhead, OJsDad, bobarossa, Rayfer, Tuna and bbmike interested to see if we can make it work?
If we can then we'll have intelligent (well somewhat at least, if you look at myself) opponents, we can make diplomacy as detailed or as basic as we want while having the super deluxe groggy gameplay from Aurora itself! :smitten:
^interesting idea. There must be some way to pull off a "PBEM" style MP game, but I need to think about the best way to do so.
I think the problem is that a turn can go anywhere from 5 secs to 30 days, depending on what is happening.
And I have no idea what we'd do if we meet and decide to start shooting at each other.
If you can figure out how to do Pbem and need another, I'd like to play.
I played Aurora for a spell back in 2010. I was between jobs and the game literally consumed all my time until I discovered Mount & Blade and started playing POP. I played through several scenarios using v5.0 and v5.1. I was able to set up a vibrant mining economy across several systems a number of times but always seemed to strip out key resources before being able to create a sufficiently powerful fleet for defense. I absolutely loved designing ships and all the systems to go with them, as steep a learning curve and befuddling as it could be. I loved it when I could recruit a scientist that gave me that extra bonus to researching a tech I desperately wanted. So much to love about the game, so demanding of time to immerse in it as well. Aurora is the game that broke Eve's hold on me, a seductive and demanding mistress for sure.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 22, 2018, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: Tuna on January 22, 2018, 12:28:05 PM
This kind of like WITP AE in Space?
Its more like what you would get if WitP had a menage a trois with WitE and WitW, resulting in the birth of a love child.
And when you hit a battle, you discover the other member in the menage a quad being Harpoon or CMANO, as the ability to fire different weapon systems on different targets is not in Witp/Wite/Witw.
Heh 'member'
This was posted by Steve back on the 19th;
(http://#039;t%20impact%20the%20rest%20of%20the%20game%20too%20much.%20On%20the%20plus%20side,%20ground%20combat%20was%20a%20very%20basic%20area%20compared%20to%20the%20rest%20of%20the%20game%20and%20I%20think%20the%20changes%20will%20make%20it%20much%20more%20interesting%20and%20immersive%20(from%20an%20RP%20perspective%20as%20much%20as%20a%20mechanics%20perspective)%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EI'm%20taking%20a%20break%20from%20ground%20combat%20at%20the%20moment%20to%20code%20the%20New%20Game%20window,%20with%20the%20intention%20of%20starting%20some%20test%20games.%20There%20are%20still%20some%20significant%20areas%20missing,%20including%20combat,%20AI,%20default/conditional%20orders,%20about%20half%20the%20movement%20orders%20and%20many%20of%20the%20minor%20windows.%20However,%20almost%20all%20the%20construction%20phase%20code%20is%20done%20(research,%20terraforming,%20production,%20maintenance,%20etc.)%20and%20most%20of%20the%20common%20movement%20orders,%20so%20I%20hope%20to%20start%20the%20first%20of%20those%20test%20games%20in%20the%20next%20month%20or%20two%20and%20then%20code%20the%20rest%20while%20playing.%20%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EI%20am%20moving%20house%20in%20the%20next%20couple%20of%20weeks,%20so%20that%20will%20slow%20things%20down%20a%20little,%20but%20should%20be%20up%20and%20running%20again%20fairly%20quickly.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EI%20am%20well%20past%20the%20point%20now%20where%20I%20think%20there%20is%20a%20question%20of%20whether%20C#%20Aurora%20will%20eventually%20be%20finished.%20This%20isn't%20similar%20to%20early%20abortive%20attempts%20at%20Newtonian%20Aurora%20and%20Aurora%202.%20I%20have%20invested%20almost%20two%20years%20into%20this%20project%20(from%20March%202016)%20so%20I%20am%20pretty%20determined%20to%20complete%20it%20. %20I%20can't%20say%20when%20yet%20but%20the%20prospect%20of%20getting%20a%20new%20campaign%20running%20is%20my%20main%20motivation.)
Interesting Aurora article:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/21/interview-aurora-the-4x-sci-fi-dwarf-fortress/#more-177034