Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...

Started by BanzaiCat, August 02, 2016, 07:52:36 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BanzaiCat

Maybe someone out there knows far better than I about this.

I'm trying to figure out if the Americans knew which Japanese aircraft carriers attacked them at Pearl Harbor. I'm assuming not, but maybe they picked it up eventually, and if so, does anyone know when or how they found this out?

Also, the Akagi was the flagship of the Japanese First Air Fleet. Did the Americans know that? Did they know that before, during, or not know until after, the war?

mirth

Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 02, 2016, 07:52:36 PM
Maybe someone out there knows far better than I about this.

I'm trying to figure out if the Americans knew which Japanese aircraft carriers attacked them at Pearl Harbor. I'm assuming not, but maybe they picked it up eventually, and if so, does anyone know when or how they found this out?

Also, the Akagi was the flagship of the Japanese First Air Fleet. Did the Americans know that? Did they know that before, during, or not know until after, the war?

My guess is that the Americans did know the composition of the Kido Butai. It couldn't have been hard to discern. It was all of the Japanese carriers at the time. 

You're best bet for definitive information is probably here:

http://combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus

BanzaiCat


besilarius

John Prados' Combined Fleet: Decoded may have some material.
"Most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and you don't find out until too late that he's been playing with two queens all along".  Terry Pratchett.

During filming of Airplane, Leslie Nielsen used a whoopee cushion to keep the cast off-balance. Hays said that Nielsen "played that thing like a maestro"

Tallulah Bankhead: "I'll come and make love to you at five o'clock. If I'm late, start without me."

"When all other trusts fail, turn to Flashman." — Abraham Lincoln.

"I have enjoyed very warm relations with my two husbands."
"With your eyes closed?"
"That helped."  Lauren Bacall

Master Chiefs are sneaky, dastardly, and snarky miscreants who thrive on the tears of Ensigns and belly dancers.   Admiral Gerry Bogan.

BanzaiCat

I think you mentioned that one before, bes, and I thank you for the reminder. I looked it up on Amazon but didn't get it, at least not yet.  O0

bbmike

I recently finished The Rising Sun by John Toland. If I remember correctly I don't think that all of the Japanese carriers were involved in the attack. My guess is that they wouldn't know until sometime after the attack.
"My life is spent in one long effort to escape from the commonplace of existence."
-Sherlock Holmes

"You know, just once I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets."
-Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart

"There's a horror movie called Alien? That's really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you!"
-The Doctor

"Before Man goes to the stars he should learn how to live on Earth."
-Clifford D. Simak

Staggerwing

If it's any help, here's the wiki page for the Kidō Butai:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Air_Fleet_(Imperial_Japanese_Navy)

Note that it lists the associated carriers for the date 4/10/41 and 12/10/41 as opposed to 12/7/41. For some reason I recall that there were 6 carriers involved in Pearl Harbor.
Vituð ér enn - eða hvat?  -Voluspa

Nothing really rocks and nothing really rolls and nothing's ever worth the cost...

"Don't you look at me that way..." -the Abyss
 
'When searching for a meaningful embrace, sometimes my self respect took second place' -Iggy Pop, Cry for Love

... this will go down on your permanent record... -the Violent Femmes, 'Kiss Off'-

"I'm not just anyone, I'm not just anyone-
I got my time machine, got my 'electronic dream!"
-Sonic Reducer, -Dead Boys

bbmike

#7
There were six carriers involved, that I do remember. But I think they had about that many more elsewhere.
"My life is spent in one long effort to escape from the commonplace of existence."
-Sherlock Holmes

"You know, just once I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets."
-Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart

"There's a horror movie called Alien? That's really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you!"
-The Doctor

"Before Man goes to the stars he should learn how to live on Earth."
-Clifford D. Simak

BanzaiCat

Yep, there were indeed six. I just wondered if U.S. Naval Intelligence knew (or suspected) which ones attacked, and if they knew the Akagi was the flagship of the First Carrier Division.

I mean, if a lucky submarine skipper managed to sink the Akagi in the Marshal Islands on his boat's first war patrol, it would help me frame the story I'm telling in a more believable manner. But I might as well just take creative license with it.

bbmike

If you mean sink the Akagi on the way to Pearl, that couldn't have happened in the Marshal Islands. The fleet went on a northern route well above where they might have been expected. After Pearl, I think that might be ok.
"My life is spent in one long effort to escape from the commonplace of existence."
-Sherlock Holmes

"You know, just once I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets."
-Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart

"There's a horror movie called Alien? That's really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you!"
-The Doctor

"Before Man goes to the stars he should learn how to live on Earth."
-Clifford D. Simak

BanzaiCat

No, I'm referring to my AAR of the solitaire board game, Silent Victory. This takes place after Pearl Harbor. There's a very small chance a player can run across a CV, and I managed to do it. I'll describe it once I get around to posting about it.