Middle Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread

Started by JasonPratt, September 17, 2018, 05:04:17 PM

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malize

Holy cow.  Good thing we've been lucky with money

Erax

We've been incredibly lucky with money.

I was going to wait until after Consul elections and the Censor's bit before weighing in on the war situation, but might as well do it now. Considering we have another T$ 50 in extra income arriving next turn, I say we raise everything, then send the fleets vs. Carthage and the legions vs. the Samnites. This will postpone any disputes over who gets to shoot for the Spolia Opima to next turn.

JasonPratt

Whoever goes after the Punic Fleets, needs to be ready to fight against 13 Fleets in effect (since Ham's +3 bonus will help them, too). All the D/S risks will apply to the naval battle as well.
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JasonPratt

#918
Trying to do some quick catchup tonight before bed. (Early work tomorrow.)

Looking back over the Living Rules again more closely, the question of PontMax office doubling up is sorrrrt of vague (which is why I originally allowed it in the Sabrerule compilation flowchart.) Usually the Living Rules keep Advanced rules (the 2.x set) in mind, listing exceptions or references in light blue. But the rules for office candidacy don't mention the PontMax one way or another; and the PontMax rules say simply that candidates must be aligned senators (i.e. being played by a Player) in Rome.

The implications of the grammar are somewhat contradictive. The main rules clearly state that candidates for various offices above PontMax cannot be currently holding other Major Offices except Censor -- and PontMax in the 2.01.x rules is explicitly a Major Office. But the PontMax qualifications do not state that other Major Offices disqualify candidates, and do not state that a winner must resign from his current Major Office! This fits actual historical examples where the PontMax was also Consul or Dictator or whatever. But then again it would be super-pointless for a senator to continue being PontMax if he leaves Rome for War (or for Governorship -- until legates are introduced later in the game anyway, allowing senators to govern while remaining in Rome for Senate participation.)

There's a similar problem with the Dictator appointing his Master of Horse: there are literally no qualifications listed that I could find! There's a definite implication that some senator fills this duty, because the rules treat the MoH as a separate entity from the Dictator (for example gaining +3 influence, and returning to Rome at the end of the Combat Phase regardless of what's happening with the Dictator.) But nothing seems to state how the MoH is chosen, or his qualifications. The faint inference is that the Dictator simply appoints him by fiat. Usually this sort of action is qualified by stating that the candidate must be a volunteer: Consuls cannot force a senator to be Dictator, for example, and a prosecuted senator cannot force someone to be his Advocate (nor the Censor force a senator to be Prosecutor). But the faint implication here is that the Dictator can force anyone to be his MoH for the Turn, whether in Rome or not, or even if unaligned (like Suply hanging out in the Forum with a ton of cash right now)! It's freaky.... I feel like I must be overlooking something somewhere.

Any other rulehounds want to research these concepts, too, be my guest!! One way or another I've got to provide clear, rational, and feasible rules for these factors going forward.


My provisional compromise so far has been that any other Major Office can also be elected PontMax, and that the PontMax can be elected or appointed to any other (otherwise valid) Major Office (for example the PontMax can be elected Censor but only if also a Prior Consul since that's the main qualification to be Censor); and that these Major Offices can be held concurrently; BUT the PontMax cannot leave Rome including to be a Governor (except by legate later).

Whereas the Dictator must appoint a volunteer as MoH unless no one volunteers, whereupon he can appoint a senator by fiat as long as the senator is not a Governoring at a Province or Captive. That includes Proconsuls already at War, and any Major Offices including PontMax, and unaligned senators in the Forum. That's because the MoH is an entirely temporary office and the senator returns to Rome almost immediately. Consequently he can keep his normal office, just not operate it while off at War for a Phase.
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JasonPratt

Fulvius of the Plutocrats catches up on asynch, and pays 7 cash to Sponsor some level-1 Games. Unrest goes down 1 to 1. Fulv's Pop goes up 1 to 2.

This effectively ends the Forum Phase.

TURN NINE -- POPULATION PHASE
-----------------------------

Cleaning up Rome:

All senators with Major Office gain Major Suspicion.

No Tax Farming Concessions are threatened yet. (A War must be attacking Italy itself for that to happen; 1st Punic War is fought in Sicily and Sardinia.

The Fabian family is the only card waiting in the Curia to respawn. Need a 5 or 6, but they rolled a 2.

No Unprosecuted Wars and no Drought Effects, so no Unrest adjustments prior to the State of the Republic speech. The current HRAO is Roman Consul Junius of the Populists. It's impossible to roll a game-losing result with him as HRAO, and he gets a +4 bonus as a Populist senator. Unrest -1 plus his Pop 3 plus his Faction bonus 4 = +6 to the 3d6 total of... 5+2+1. Total result 14, no change!

With that, the Senate opens. Junius is the Presiding Magistrate.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
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PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

TURN NINE -- SENATE PHASE
-------------------------

STATE OF THE REPUBLIC:
----------------------------

The Republic currently has 196 Talents, with an income of 60, and more Allied Enthusiasm about to add another 50 next Turn. Current expected expenses are -10 and -20 for Active Wars, and -10 for an Immanent War which will activate before the Revenue Phase next Turn. Expected expenses also include -2 x 13 Active Legions. (Vets cost nothing extra for upkeep, though really they should.)

There's a Spolia Opima historical Event in the Forum, and strictly speaking it doesn't distinguish between Land and Naval Victories against an Enemy Leader! However, neither does the prologue fan expansion feature naval battles at all. And, to be fair, while the rules mentioned a Spolia Opima event, they forgot to include any details for it, so its details are totally my invention anyway. ;) So I'm going to rule that claiming it must require a Land Victory over an Enemy Leader, which is certainly the spirit of the event anyway. (I'll try to remember to clarify this rule on the card text soon.)

Unrest is currently 1.


Here's the Immanent War again for convenience:



And the two Active Wars plus Enemy Leader:




And now the Player mats.

I.I.'s Aristocrats have jusssssssst barely edged back into first place, with three well-developed senators, a normal voting tally of 15, a total influence of 50 (the new high watermark if I'm not mistaken), and activist knights for another 8 votes on any topic pro or con -- so effectively 23 votes in the senate (for now). He has also angled leadership over the majority coaltion of minors after the Frog's Plutocrats got too backstabby and overt about concentrating power. Whether or how long he can keep this lead remains to be seen.



Tripoli's Militarists don't have the raw Influence of the top two (yet), and their 15 votes can never call on any activism. But they have a lot of cash on the board and, more importantly, their increasing military skill makes them proportionately important picks for Consuls and Dictator at a time when Wars against the Republic are ramping up. This makes them a strong 3rd place; and they won't likely stay there for much longer!



On the balance, I still have to acknowledge 2nd Place to the Frog's Plutocrats. Their 15 votes can never be punched up with activism, but he's generating ever-more-extra cash off his minions; and his senators remain highly influential at a total of 49. He still retains the Pontifex Maximus lifetime office despite clear threats to remove him. And he still retains three cards in his hand, two of which he has held for many turns back into the Latin Era. His main drawback is having lost the leadership he finagled of the three minor factions, isolating himself with the Conservative Party whose downfall he helped precipitate through the first judicial execution a few Turns ago! The Plutocrats may be in a retrenching mode of sorts now, but still command the second most overall powerful faction.



AzTank's Conservatives are still rebuilding in 5th place after crippling punches of bad luck and treachery; but he has been carefully (one might say conservatively) shepherding the largest Faction Treasury in the game, and he has recently signed on the super-statesman Paullus Macedonicus, who could be considered an effective alternative to granting the Militarists ever-more-power (at least not in a crisis). He has been waved off as irrelevant for a while, however, which has cornered his contributions and growth.



In some ways, Malize's Populists could be considered third-and-a-half place -- or even higher than third for most practical purposes! His 23 votes can be securely applied on any topic pro or con without the fickleness of the friends of the Aristocratic knights, and he continues to motor along toward his upper popularity limit. His bad luck early in a late start has finally evaporated, and at long last he has signed on a third senator: no less than the super-statesman Cato the Elder! The top three Players may keep a (shuffly) hold on the top three slots for a while, but the Populists are a voting powerhouse to be sought after. (Which has gained them the Roman Consulship for the first time going into this Senate.)



Erax's Progressives remain in 6th place, unable to shake off the cursed luck of early Turns in their late start. But they're growing steadily stronger; and with Erax's precision and commitment to balancing power across the board, his Faction's influence carries significantly more weight in Republican governance than his stats alone would suggest!



Relatedly, I will be instituting a house-rule adjustment to the Progressive special abilities. Each senator with activist knight votes will now receive +1 Influence win or lose (not +2 for winning only), or +4 Influence win or lose voting critically (for harm or against gain) against gain or for harm of one of his own senators (not only winning Prosecution vote against himself). This will make his activist abilities more relevant -- and more of a temptation to use, to improve his position faster.

To recap the Progressive activist knight triggers, they each bring an extra vote (beyond their own normal vote) for voting against a senator's gain, or for a senator's harm, or when voting on any law pro or con, or when voting for (not against) land bills.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
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Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

malize

Proposing the honorable Cornelius as field consul, Julius as Roman consul

I believe they will be proposing their censor, correct?






JasonPratt

Quote from: malize on December 27, 2018, 12:29:38 PM
Proposing the honorable Cornelius as field consul, Julius as Roman consul

I believe they will be proposing their censor, correct?

Julius as the PM would be proposing the Censor. Cornelius has no say in that beyond the normal vote of any other senator. (Unless his Player plays a Tribune to make his own Proposition for Censor.)

Together however, the Consuls might be appointing a Dictator! -- you do have that option under the current circumstances. (i.e. you've got at least one Active War with a combined Naval/Land strength of 20+.)

This Turn, first Mandatory Business will be Consul-pair election. (And then between them they work out who will be Roman and Field, though it's okay to signal you've worked that out already in your proposal.)

Second Mandatory Business would be PontMax election but Acilius is still PontMax.

Third Mandatory Business will be Dictator appointment or election (if a Consul agreement about who should be Dictator cannot be reached). If the Consuls decide the Republic doesn't need a Dictator this Turn, then a Tribune can't Propose one either.

Fourth Mandatory business will be the Dictator choosing a Master of Horse -- if there's a Dictator.

Fifth Mandatory Business will be the Roman Consul (or the Dictator if there is one now) Proposing and electing a Censor. The current Censor can be re-elected.

Sixth Mandatory Business will be the Censor deciding whether to Prosecute suspicions this Turn.

Seventh Mandatory Business would be electing Governors for Provinces, but the Republic doesn't have a 'province' yet. (All conquered territory so far is within Rome's direct governance.)

That's all the possible Mandatory Business categories, and it must be done in that sequence. Anything else is Other Business, and can be done in any sequence AFTER Mandatory Business is settled.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

malize

Thanks, I know that's probably posted somewhere but it helps :)

IncompetentIdiot


JasonPratt

#926
Argh, backing up a little. I forgot that Julius has already been Field Consul last time, so he can't be either one of the Consuls this time!

Malize remains Roman Consul for now, and must Propose someone else as co-Consul with Cornelius (or another pair altogether).

Don't count Julius out of the action this Turn, though! -- the two new Consuls might decide Rome needs a Dictator, who can also go to War and who will become the Presiding Magistrate until then. And he would need a Master of Horse, so some other high Mil senator could be honored with that post! -- and help put the whomp on the Punic Fleet.

Actually, the most efficient choices would be anyone with a decent Mil for Field Consul, literally anyone else for Roman Consul -- possibly someone from the Plutocrats or the Populists again in case of financial or unrest disaster -- and then Julius for Dictator with Manlius as his Master of Horse. I wouldn't normally make such direct recommendations like this, but I'm partially responsible for not noticing the problem with nominating Julius for Consul again earlier.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Tripoli

Either of my other senators could be console as neitherhe was last turn   That would ready Julius for the Carthaginians next turn
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?" -Abraham Lincoln

malize

Proposing the honorable Cornelius as field consul, Manlius as Roman consul

Erax