An Idiots Guide To Losing Your CV's Before 1942: WiTP:AE KyzBP vs UCG

[KyzBP]

"Its a plan, and if i had one id chew a cigar" -- Geekamoto

He's looking for a cigar now. Beware. Be very aware.

I hope Geekamoto doesn't have a new plan as his old one seems to be working just fine.

[Staggerwing]

"Its a plan, and if i had one id chew a cigar" -- Geekamoto

He's looking for a cigar now. Beware. Be very aware.

I hope Geekamoto doesn't have a new plan as his old one seems to be working just fine.

Maybe that's the key- make him think his old plan might be going off the rails so he will scramble to put together a new one, leading to an interim period of confusion and re-shifting of assets that you might be able to exploit.

[KyzBP]

March 12th, 1942

We continued our bombardment of Moulmein.

A morning recon flight revealed there are no planes left at Moulmein.  The field and base itself are in shambles.  It may
take a week before Geek can bring his planes back here.  In the meantime I'll pull the bombardment ships back for repairs
and begin bombing his troops at Pegu to keep them from getting much rest.  The other day I noticed Geek had some troops
preparing for Rangoon.  I still think he has to come by land as the river leading to Rangoon is too small for a large invasion
force...and he'll need a large invasion force.

Geek's sub campaign at AM has begun.

I posted this pic because his subs launched 5 or 6 torps, hit 2 different AP's, and none of the torps exploded.  He may have
wondered if he opened the right file.  I thought we were going to get lucky.

Not so much.

This one sinks and I think he sunk another.  Both had just finished unloading so no troops were lost but I can't afford to
lose AP's.  I'm sending ASW assets to the AM area as we speak and I may have to have the incoming ships standoff until
I clear the area of subs.  I would be pretty angry if I lose any of the Base Forces that are just a few days away.  So much
for AM being just a distraction operation.

Bombers appeared over Siberoet again.

Our fighters fared a little better but still couldn't stem the tide of Geekanese bombers.  I'm guessing he's launching them
from Singapore so there's no way I can hit them while they're grounded.  I'm still looking at filling the Brit carriers with
fighters and parking them out of range but close enough to fly CAP over Siberoet.  That maneuver will require math skills.
Expect it to fail.

Here's the situation at Sumatra.

I was able to retake Sibolga as he left it unmanned.  I should be able to get some supplies and aircraft there soon.  The
troops outside of Sibolga are the remnant Base Forces from Sabang.  I plan on building up the island of Sinabang (now
known as: Cinnabon) to provide mutual support with Sibolga. 

At Padang, I interdicted a ground unit Geek was using to grab empty bases.  I sent remnants of an armored unit and some
armored scouts.  I haven't been able to get the upper hand and was about to send some infantry but Geek looks like he's
moving more troops up towards Padang so I'm going to pull back to Padang and prepare for his eventual assault. 

I guess Geek got tired of my Lame TF sinking landing parties.

He caught the Marblehead, which was the flagship of that TF, and now she's damaged to the point where she won't be
participating any longer.  I have next to no fighters at Darwin and no real combat ships left either.  I imagine the end is
near for these guys.  I'm trying to sneak some supply ships in but I have a feeling the won't survive.

Here's the end of turn score.

I lost ground in the air war courtesy of Australia.  I did notice that 3 of his carriers were sunk (2 CVL, 1 CVE).
That's better than I thought but, unfortunately, yesterday's news.

[KyzBP]

"Its a plan, and if i had one id chew a cigar" -- Geekamoto

He's looking for a cigar now. Beware. Be very aware.

I hope Geekamoto doesn't have a new plan as his old one seems to be working just fine.

Maybe that's the key- make him think his old plan might be going off the rails so he will scramble to put together a new one, leading to an interim period of confusion and re-shifting of assets that you might be able to exploit.

That's definitely something to explore, Stagger. O0  I need another surprise.  Something in the spirit of AM.  Hmmmm.

[JasonPratt]

Codebreakers, examining chatter after the Rockhampton incident, have found a puzzling reference to the English word "rugby" -- they're sure that's the word, but can't figure out what it's a code for. Maybe disciplinary action...? Another mystery to be unlocked someday by historians after the war. 

[JasonPratt]

That's definitely something to explore, Stagger. O0  I need another surprise.  Something in the spirit of AM.  Hmmmm.

Some place where you can unexpectedly concentrate enough force to be annoying, and yet feasibly protect your lines of supply.

A land thrust from somewhere on the western side of the map would fit that criteria (assuming my impression is right that you don't have enough sea power there to protect a reprisal strike on your logistic chain.) It would need to be 'thick' enough to protect a corridor of supply, but concentrated enough that you can feasibly build up an airbase capable of striking where he'd hate to see that much extra air power.

Historically the US was trying this in western China near the Himalayas, for a Superfortress base, except they just tried to leapfrog the base into place by flying in supplies and equipment. Logistically that didn't work: the planes were using more fuel to get there and back than they could practically bring in to supply the area. If you can reach a forward base and fortify it enough to protect itself and large enough to use air to shut down a transit/supply corridor, you would have at least forced him to adjust and eliminate some paths (if not expend strength trying to open that corridor again). Which would increase the chances of subs or other naval (or air) raiders scoring hits along the remaining, relatively safer paths.

Please note that I'm spitballing this after having shaken my brain like an Etch-a-Sketch so that I'm not accounting for anything I may know about what Geek is doing or not doing in that area of the map. Besides which you might consider the principles and apply them somewhere else.

But essentially that's what Arctic Monkey seems primed to accomplish, at best, under the current circumstances; so I'm thinking in terms of how to mirror its effects elsewhere.

[KyzBP]

That's definitely something to explore, Stagger. O0  I need another surprise.  Something in the spirit of AM.  Hmmmm.

Some place where you can unexpectedly concentrate enough force to be annoying, and yet feasibly protect your lines of supply.

A land thrust from somewhere on the western side of the map would fit that criteria (assuming my impression is right that you don't have enough sea power there to protect a reprisal strike on your logistic chain.) It would need to be 'thick' enough to protect a corridor of supply, but concentrated enough that you can feasibly build up an airbase capable of striking where he'd hate to see that much extra air power.

Historically the US was trying this in western China near the Himalayas, for a Superfortress base, except they just tried to leapfrog the base into place by flying in supplies and equipment. Logistically that didn't work: the planes were using more fuel to get there and back than they could practically bring in to supply the area. If you can reach a forward base and fortify it enough to protect itself and large enough to use air to shut down a transit/supply corridor, you would have at least forced him to adjust and eliminate some paths (if not expend strength trying to open that corridor again). Which would increase the chances of subs or other naval (or air) raiders scoring hits along the remaining, relatively safer paths.

Please note that I'm spitballing this after having shaken my brain like an Etch-a-Sketch so that I'm not accounting for anything I may know about what Geek is doing or not doing in that area of the map. Besides which you might consider the principles and apply them somewhere else.

But essentially that's what Arctic Monkey seems primed to accomplish, at best, under the current circumstances; so I'm thinking in terms of how to mirror its effects elsewhere.

I agree with you here, Jason.  I'm thinking Java or Sumatra.  I have toe holds on both and a bunch of Aussies loaded on ships and headed for Perth.  If Australia looks destined to fall then these troops may be rerouted and used on offensives in either or both places.  In the meantime I just have to be annoying.

[JasonPratt]

As long as it's somewhere you can feasibly protect your supply to the area while messing substantially with him. It doesn't have to be DECISIVELY messing with him, just enough that he feels he has to adjust to respond (and maybe only feels, but more than feels if you can manage it). Or if he decides not to respond, you can take the advantage of his absence to deplete him of power in the area. AM, at this point, as far as you know, could go either way.

(Those of us reading the other thread, of course, have a better idea of what Geek has decided to do or not do, or what he hasn't decided or can't decide to do yet. I'm trying to comment as neutrally as possible for comparison on a proposed strike/thrust elsewhere.)


Edited to add: I bolded the first sentence up there because, although I may not have pieced together the information you've been giving properly, my impression is that you're going to have a hard time establishing a feasibly protected supply line to a forward strike base in those areas.

[FarAway Sooner]

(Reminder, I've not read Geek's AAR yet so I'm in no danger of betraying any confidences)

The destruction of 2 CVLs and a CVE is a nice start.  The trick, I think, is to whittle down his non-Kido Butai carrier forces so he either has to split up those 6 CVs or so he can only be one place with dominant carrier-based air power at once.  Then you need to start showing up at those other places with your carriers and start doing more harm somewhere else.  Consider the surface ships (or even grounded planes) they could shoot up in the Philippines for a few days, if they could hit and retreat before he had his own aircraft set to do navy patrol and naval attack work in sufficient numbers.

The Japanese conduct of WW II was to use their main carrier fleet as a raiding force and force multiplier, but to rely on land-based air to do most of the heavy lifting and to keep command of the seas.  Geek is using his carrier force as a floating air base in Australia (maybe because the Aussie air force has been beat down so far?), but that's left him vulnerable in other places for a massed carrier group marauding in his rear. 

Those pinpricks don't have to be of profound strategic value (Arctic Monkey does have strategic value--I love the image of a white-furred monkey flinging his own dung at the Japanese mainland), they just have to disrupt his time tables enough to give you a chance to recover down under. 

Looking at that last sentence makes me ask:  Why do all the posts on Grogheads somehow turn smutty sooner or later?   ;)

Historical aside:  Midway was the first time that Japanese carriers ventured deep into hostile waters (and into the teeth of land-based Allied air superiority) with orders besides "shoot things up and get out quickly".  Thanks to advance intelligence, the Americans were able to muster 126 aircraft at Midway before the Japanese had showed up.  That Midway contingent often gets discounted in Allied histories as obsolete, but only 38 of those planes were the aged Vindicator bombers or Buffalo fighters, and the 31 PBYs stationed there were absolutely worth their weight in gold (arguably the most important aircraft--plane for plane--of any that either side brought to the battle). 

It was that air presence that gave the Americans a commanding edge in the number of aircraft at Midway.  And while most of those disparate American attacks weren't sufficiently well-timed or well-executed, they kept the Japanese busy enough with air operations that they never had a chance to launch a heavy attack against the American carrier force until late in the day, by which time they only had 1 carrier left. 

The story about the Japanese planes rearming to attack naval targets instead of Midway has been thoroughly debunked in Japanese history on the topic.  Consider:  There were 7 different attacks on the Japanese carriers between 7:55am (when the first 16 bombers from Midway attacked) and 10:25am (when the dive bombers from the Enterprise and Hornet began their attacks).  The Japanese had been too busy launching and recovering CAP, undertaking evasive maneuvers, and recovering strike planes to be able to actually launch any sort of force to go after the American flat-tops. 

When those 47 dive bombers from Enterprise and Yorktown showed up for attack #8, they were able to land the first punches.  Carriers are notoriously fragile (Japanese carriers even moreso; their damage control doctrine at the start of WW II was downright primitive), and it only took a couple bomb hits to send 3/4 of the Japanese carrier force to the bottom of the ocean...

I'm not sure what that says about the situation here, but I have a suspicion that you need to get those carriers closer to the front of battle even if it's just for one day's worth of raids here and there.  It's not like he's got loads of bombers set to recon and long-range naval attacks everywhere, does he?

[KyzBP]

(Reminder, I've not read Geek's AAR yet so I'm in no danger of betraying any confidences)

The destruction of 2 CVLs and a CVE is a nice start.  The trick, I think, is to whittle down his non-Kido Butai carrier forces so he either has to split up those 6 CVs or so he can only be one place with dominant carrier-based air power at once.  Then you need to start showing up at those other places with your carriers and start doing more harm somewhere else.  Consider the surface ships (or even grounded planes) they could shoot up in the Philippines for a few days, if they could hit and retreat before he had his own aircraft set to do navy patrol and naval attack work in sufficient numbers.

|I wasn't going to say anything but my other carrier group moved out of Pearl and is headed off on a Double Top Secret mission.  I was originally going to have them relieve the CV's at AM but I have another plan for them, albeit small.  The CV's still at AM are doing damage that might not be apparent now but will be later, I hope.  Those guys aren't done yet either.  ;)

The Japanese conduct of WW II was to use their main carrier fleet as a raiding force and force multiplier, but to rely on land-based air to do most of the heavy lifting and to keep command of the seas.  Geek is using his carrier force as a floating air base in Australia (maybe because the Aussie air force has been beat down so far?), but that's left him vulnerable in other places for a massed carrier group marauding in his rear.

From what I can tell, Geek isn't using his carriers in Australia per se.  His KB is near the Marshall Islands right now, possibly headed to Truk to prepare for whatever nefarious plan Geek has in mind.  He has a mess of smaller carriers near Singapore.  There's possibly another group of smaller carriers somewhere (Tokyo?) or they're all at Singapore

Those pinpricks don't have to be of profound strategic value (Arctic Monkey does have strategic value--I love the image of a white-furred monkey flinging his own dung at the Japanese mainland), they just have to disrupt his time tables enough to give you a chance to recover down under.

That IS my favorite image.  

Looking at that last sentence makes me ask:  Why do all the posts on Grogheads somehow turn smutty sooner or later?   ;)

Historical aside:  Midway was the first time that Japanese carriers ventured deep into hostile waters (and into the teeth of land-based Allied air superiority) with orders besides "shoot things up and get out quickly".  Thanks to advance intelligence, the Americans were able to muster 126 aircraft at Midway before the Japanese had showed up.  That Midway contingent often gets discounted in Allied histories as obsolete, but only 38 of those planes were the aged Vindicator bombers or Buffalo fighters, and the 31 PBYs stationed there were absolutely worth their weight in gold (arguably the most important aircraft--plane for plane--of any that either side brought to the battle). 

It was that air presence that gave the Americans a commanding edge in the number of aircraft at Midway.  And while most of those disparate American attacks weren't sufficiently well-timed or well-executed, they kept the Japanese busy enough with air operations that they never had a chance to launch a heavy attack against the American carrier force until late in the day, by which time they only had 1 carrier left. 

The story about the Japanese planes rearming to attack naval targets instead of Midway has been thoroughly debunked in Japanese history on the topic.  Consider:  There were 7 different attacks on the Japanese carriers between 7:55am (when the first 16 bombers from Midway attacked) and 10:25am (when the dive bombers from the Enterprise and Hornet began their attacks).  The Japanese had been too busy launching and recovering CAP, undertaking evasive maneuvers, and recovering strike planes to be able to actually launch any sort of force to go after the American flat-tops. 

When those 47 dive bombers from Enterprise and Yorktown showed up for attack #8, they were able to land the first punches.  Carriers are notoriously fragile (Japanese carriers even moreso; their damage control doctrine at the start of WW II was downright primitive), and it only took a couple bomb hits to send 3/4 of the Japanese carrier force to the bottom of the ocean...

I'm not sure what that says about the situation here, but I have a suspicion that you need to get those carriers closer to the front of battle even if it's just for one day's worth of raids here and there.  It's not like he's got loads of bombers set to recon and long-range naval attacks everywhere, does he?

Again, CV's are moving.  Carrier #5 is on it's way to the Pacific from Norfolk, VA.  Things are happening. 

[Con]

I have seen in other AAR on WitPAE that your own intelligence on enemy shipping sunk can be wrong.  In one AAR the Soryu I think was sunk 4 times

Conrad

[KyzBP]

I have seen in other AAR on WitPAE that your own intelligence on enemy shipping sunk can be wrong.  In one AAR the Soryu I think was sunk 4 times

Conrad

I've seen that too.  This is a Glass Half Full of Beer kind of AAR.  We sunk 3 damn it!

[KyzBP]

STOP THE PRESSES!!

Christmas has come in February!

WiTP:AE has started working again on MY computer!!  I don't know what happened but after installing an AVG update, the game started working again.

What does this mean and why is it important you ask?  Well, I've been using my kids' computer for months after WiTP:AE just stopped running on my computer.  Their homework and projects take priority over my game playing so returning turns and updating AAR's haven't been something I've been able to do promptly.  All that has changed and I should be able to get the game moving at a better pace.

I now return you to your weekend.

[FarAway Sooner]

Woo hoo!  As you can tell, I'm loving this stuff!!   

And, just to be clear, never having even played the game, I wasn't trying to backseat drive on how you're using your carriers.  I'm just trying to ask questions/make suggestions, partly to understand how the game works better.  I've always been afraid to try this game (two small kids, limited time for gaming, etc.) but the reports you're giving have me seriously interested...

[KyzBP]

Woo hoo!  As you can tell, I'm loving this stuff!!   

And, just to be clear, never having even played the game, I wasn't trying to backseat drive on how you're using your carriers.  I'm just trying to ask questions/make suggestions, partly to understand how the game works better.  I've always been afraid to try this game (two small kids, limited time for gaming, etc.) but the reports you're giving have me seriously interested...

No worries, FarAway.  The questions you guys ask and suggestions you guys make help me understand, not only the game better, but the War in the Pacific in general.  Please feel free to ask and suggest away.  Also, don't let this game scare you.  Once you get a general understanding of the mechanics it's not really that bad.  Right now my turns are fairly quick because Geek owns most of the bases and has many more units.  The Allies will get stronger and stronger.  That's when my turns will start taking a long time, I think.  I've never played this version past January of 42.  If the cost of this game causes you to pause, don't let it.  The Money Spent-Hours of Entertainment ratio is better than any game you'll ever own.