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IRL (In Real Life) => Sports => Topic started by: mirth on September 08, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

Title: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 08, 2014, 10:42:00 AM
1-year suspension? Life-time ban?

Can't see the league being stupid enough to stick with 2 games now that this has been released



After watching that video, I'd like to see him gone for good. Let him go flip burgers. The guy is scum.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 08, 2014, 10:53:24 AM
makes you wonder why the wife stuck with him...
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Steelgrave on September 08, 2014, 11:08:01 AM
makes you wonder why the wife stuck with him...

There's volumes on the subject of domestic violence and how the victims blame themselves or defend the sicko wife beaters who attacked them....frankly, it's not uncommon.

As for Rice, I'm for a lifetime ban. I never want to see him on a football field again. And I'm sickened by the number of Ravens fans who, if no longer actively defending him quite as vigorously, clearly want to minimize what this animal has done. On a talk radio show today, one of these intellectual giants went after the media for wanting to "crucify" Rice. Yeah. Taking up for a wife beater....classy.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 08, 2014, 11:37:19 AM
As for Rice, I'm for a lifetime ban. I never want to see him on a football field again. And I'm sickened by the number of Ravens fans who are, if no longer actively defending him quite as vigorously, clearly want to minimize what this animal has done. On a talk radio show today, one of these intellectual giants went after the media for wanting to "crucify" Rice. Yeah. Taking up for a wife beater....classy.

100% agreement on the above points.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: OJsDad on September 08, 2014, 12:32:10 PM
Ravens just released the scum bag.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Centurion40 on September 08, 2014, 12:46:23 PM
Ravens just released the scum bag.

Yeah, just saw that.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Steelgrave on September 08, 2014, 12:47:43 PM
Good call.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: steve58 on September 08, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
As he has a history of smacking her around, I hope he doesn't take his getting cut/indefinite suspension out on his wife.  :(
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: OJsDad on September 08, 2014, 01:32:58 PM
He's also been suspended by the NFL indefinitely.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 08, 2014, 01:49:59 PM
Ravens just released the scum bag.

Good.

He's also been suspended by the NFL indefinitely.

Even better.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: OJsDad on September 08, 2014, 02:14:46 PM
My guess is that he'll be back next year in a Cowboys uniform.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Steelgrave on September 08, 2014, 03:42:54 PM
My guess is that he'll be back next year in a Cowboys uniform.

I'm assuming that's tongue in cheek. Especially since you could insert "Raiders" or even "Jets" in the discussion. Besides the indefinite ban from the NFL, I don't believe there is a team in football that would take him. And if the Cowboys did, my 40 years of being a Cowboy fan is gone.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 08, 2014, 04:17:29 PM
I doubt the League will let him back. Goodell already screwed the pooch with the 2 game slap on the wrist. The PR hit would be enormous if they let Ray Rice back in next season.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: -budd- on September 08, 2014, 06:09:48 PM
good bye to bad rubbish. Judging by how he reacted right after doubt this was the first time.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: OJsDad on September 08, 2014, 06:47:05 PM
My guess is that he'll be back next year in a Cowboys uniform.

I'm assuming that's tongue in cheek. Especially since you could insert "Raiders" or even "Jets" in the discussion. Besides the indefinite ban from the NFL, I don't believe there is a team in football that would take him. And if the Cowboys did, my 40 years of being a Cowboy fan is gone.

Yes, tongue in check 
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: MetalDog on September 08, 2014, 07:51:35 PM
*NOT A DEFENSE OF RAY RICE*

Having said that, I think Ray Rice is just the next example of the type of player that the NFL covets.  From the time these boys show a modicum of talent, they are groomed for the next level.  PeeWee to Middle School to High School to College and then the Pros.  They are given every opportunity to have their transgressions forgiven or downplayed because they can run/pass/catch/tackle at a high level. 

The billionaires who fund this sport, and profit mightily, want the meanest, toughest, nastiest, most amped up men they can get to don their colors and make them money.  They portray their players as modern day gladiators.  Mythic names who become heroes of the franchise and gain eternal fame for their on field exploits.

And the public eats it up.  Pro football is the most popular sport in the United States.  The fans of these teams are so invested in the performance of "their" team, that a win or a loss can make or break their entire week in just under three hours.  Just check the various highlight packages on any given Sunday and invariably, there are big hits included.  And while you will admit that the skill shown on a catch or run is admirable and enjoyable to watch, nothing gets your blood fired up as much as a big hit.

All of the above is just leading up to this, Ray Rice is just a product of the system.  He could be, and is, any number of men who play football every Sunday.  And we are all complicit in making these men what they become.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 08, 2014, 10:01:10 PM
makes you wonder why the wife stuck with him...

They have been together since they both were in High School. Whether he has been doing this all along or if it was just a bad mistake I can't say but I think the punishment is appropriate and I'm a big Ravens fan. I hope it was just a mistake because I like Ray Rice and hope he can make amends and move on.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 08, 2014, 10:05:35 PM
makes you wonder why the wife stuck with him...

There's volumes on the subject of domestic violence and how the victims blame themselves or defend the sicko wife beaters who attacked them....frankly, it's not uncommon.

As for Rice, I'm for a lifetime ban. I never want to see him on a football field again. And I'm sickened by the number of Ravens fans who, if no longer actively defending him quite as vigorously, clearly want to minimize what this animal has done. On a talk radio show today, one of these intellectual giants went after the media for wanting to "crucify" Rice. Yeah. Taking up for a wife beater....classy.

Really? Do you know something about Ray Rice that no one else knows?

Do you think every person who does this should be made into a monster, lose the ability to work in their profession forever and be made to where a label on their clothes the rest of their life calling them a serial wife beater when it may have just been something so out of character that what they did is unexplainable?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 08, 2014, 10:07:14 PM
As he has a history of smacking her around, I hope he doesn't take his getting cut/indefinite suspension out on his wife.  :(

Actually he has no history of it, there has never been a hint of this before which is why what he did was so shocking.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 08, 2014, 10:08:42 PM
I doubt the League will let him back. Goodell already screwed the pooch with the 2 game slap on the wrist. The PR hit would be enormous if they let Ray Rice back in next season.

There are 24 active domestic abuse investigations going on right now in the NFL. I wonder how many will receive the same punishment?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Arctic Blast on September 08, 2014, 11:14:31 PM
Honestly, if he wasn't coming off a season which called his future production into question, does anyone think he'd be released? After all, this is an organization which posted a wonderfully tone dead load of crap called 'I Like Ray Rice' in the summertime. I wonder...

WOW. Yep, it's still on their site (http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Byrne-Identity-I-Like-Ray-Rice/f618f957-e03f-4fc6-919e-638552b14c2b?mobile-id=836229&media-type=N). They've spent the entire offseason making ridiculous excuses. F*ck the Ravens. Of course, the NFL was no better. A 2 game suspension, all the while hocking pink women's football jerseys on their website. Wanna guess what name was on said jerseys? Everyone knew the story of what had happened, but now that the video goes public and the outrage really kicks in, oh NOW it's important enough to put a foot down? Weak. So weak.

They recently decreed that it's 6 games for a first offense and an outright ban for a second. The league is probably going to stick with that, since it would be difficult to explain why this example gets a worse punishment than their brand new stipulation calls for.

Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 09, 2014, 05:29:57 AM
when it may have just been something so out of character that what they did is unexplainable?

After watching that video, do you honestly think that was the first time Ray Rice abused a woman?

Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 09, 2014, 05:32:05 AM
I doubt the League will let him back. Goodell already screwed the pooch with the 2 game slap on the wrist. The PR hit would be enormous if they let Ray Rice back in next season.

There are 24 active domestic abuse investigations going on right now in the NFL. I wonder how many will receive the same punishment?

If all 24 cases have a video showing a player cold cocking a woman, then I'd expect all of them.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Steelgrave on September 09, 2014, 06:30:32 AM
makes you wonder why the wife stuck with him...

There's volumes on the subject of domestic violence and how the victims blame themselves or defend the sicko wife beaters who attacked them....frankly, it's not uncommon.

As for Rice, I'm for a lifetime ban. I never want to see him on a football field again. And I'm sickened by the number of Ravens fans who, if no longer actively defending him quite as vigorously, clearly want to minimize what this animal has done. On a talk radio show today, one of these intellectual giants went after the media for wanting to "crucify" Rice. Yeah. Taking up for a wife beater....classy.

Really? Do you know something about Ray Rice that no one else knows?

Do you think every person who does this should be made into a monster, lose the ability to work in their profession forever and be made to where a label on their clothes the rest of their life calling them a serial wife beater when it may have just been something so out of character that what they did is unexplainable?

The man's His actions speak for themselves. He just got caught on video this time. Again, there are tons of studies done on the subject. The odds of this being the first time are extremely unlikely. Ray Rice is not unique. Unexplainable? He spit on his wife/fiance, slapped her and then punched her unconscious. How much explaining do you need???
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Centurion40 on September 09, 2014, 08:03:55 AM
I heard that the CFL has also banned Ray Rice from playing football in Canada.

And now his wife is defending him!!  :o

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/nfl/ray-rice-s-wife-janay-defends-suspended-nfl-running-back-1.2760440
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Steelgrave on September 09, 2014, 09:12:19 AM
I heard that the CFL has also banned Ray Rice from playing football in Canada.

And now his wife is defending him!!  :o

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/nfl/ray-rice-s-wife-janay-defends-suspended-nfl-running-back-1.2760440

Yeah, I saw that. There's a lot of twisted psychology behind women who make excuses for the beating they took, but unfortunately in almost all the cases it's because the husband finally was "outted", not because it was a one-time incident. It happens far too often, including the infamous tweet from her where she took the blame and the Ravens kept it on their site until yesterday.

Bottom line is that a man doesn't do that to a woman. He did. One sportscaster put it this way....imagine the outcry if there were videos of Michael Vick abusing dogs. To most right-thinking individuals, how much worse is this?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 09, 2014, 08:53:06 PM
when it may have just been something so out of character that what they did is unexplainable?

After watching that video, do you honestly think that was the first time Ray Rice abused a woman?

Having met them  both in social situations a few times, yes. I agree with the punishment but I don't think that is who Ray Rice is.

There has never been a hint of anything like this in his past, no calls from neighbors about loud arguments, no previous charges that were dropped, no mysterious bruises or long periods of time where his wife/girlfriend was MIA. I think he was drunk, they got into a nasty argument and he made a stupid mistake.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 09, 2014, 08:55:56 PM
I doubt the League will let him back. Goodell already screwed the pooch with the 2 game slap on the wrist. The PR hit would be enormous if they let Ray Rice back in next season.

There are 24 active domestic abuse investigations going on right now in the NFL. I wonder how many will receive the same punishment?

If all 24 cases have a video showing a player cold cocking a woman, then I'd expect all of them.

Is that the bar, video?

The guy from Carlina was convicted in court of beating his girlfriend, dragging her by the hair to the bathroom and trying to break her arm by smashing the toilet seat on it while threatening to kill her. He started Sunday.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 09, 2014, 08:56:48 PM
I doubt the League will let him back. Goodell already screwed the pooch with the 2 game slap on the wrist. The PR hit would be enormous if they let Ray Rice back in next season.

There are 24 active domestic abuse investigations going on right now in the NFL. I wonder how many will receive the same punishment?

If all 24 cases have a video showing a player cold cocking a woman, then I'd expect all of them.

Is that the bar, video?

The guy from Carolina was recently convicted of abuse in court for beating his girlfriend, dragging her by the hair to the bathroom and trying to break her arm by smashing the toilet seat on it while threatening to kill her. He started Sunday.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 09, 2014, 09:02:52 PM

The man's His actions speak for themselves. He just got caught on video this time. Again, there are tons of studies done on the subject. The odds of this being the first time are extremely unlikely. Ray Rice is not unique. Unexplainable? He spit on his wife/fiance, slapped her and then punched her unconscious. How much explaining do you need???

6 seconds of your life does not define you. Is Donte Stallworth a murderer? Is Jamaal Lewis a drug dealer? Is Robbie Alomar as disgusting human being? 
 

Uhh actually it was she who spit on him, not that that is an excuse for what he did. The odds of this being the first time are extremely high if you know anything about him and her.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Arctic Blast on September 09, 2014, 11:34:22 PM
I doubt the League will let him back. Goodell already screwed the pooch with the 2 game slap on the wrist. The PR hit would be enormous if they let Ray Rice back in next season.

There are 24 active domestic abuse investigations going on right now in the NFL. I wonder how many will receive the same punishment?

If all 24 cases have a video showing a player cold cocking a woman, then I'd expect all of them.

Is that the bar, video?

The guy from Carlina was convicted in court of beating his girlfriend, dragging her by the hair to the bathroom and trying to break her arm by smashing the toilet seat on it while threatening to kill her. He started Sunday.

Greg Hardy appealed the conviction, meaning he's up for a new trial, this time in front of a jury (his choice). If he's found guilty again, dude is hosed, and he should be. Until the trial is over, there isn't a whole lot that's going to be done.

As for the rest, I don't know Rice. I don't want to know him, because I think he's a piece of sh*t because of what he did. He f*cked up. It's now up to him to fix his image. That's his fault, and it's his problem. 6 seconds of your life absolutely CAN and often DOES define you. Welcome to how the world works.

Using your examples, and in my opinion :
-I don't think Donte Stallworth is a murderer. I do think he's a guy who made an incredibly stupid and selfish mistake that cost someone else their life. It's kind of hard to like the guy much after that.
-Jamal Lewis is an unbelievably stupid human being.
-Robbie Alomar, on the other hand, HAS rehabbed his image...it took a long time, but he pulled it off. Others may feel differently, and that's fine.

Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Staggerwing on September 10, 2014, 05:28:04 AM
It's like Stockholm Syndrome.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 06:06:31 AM
when it may have just been something so out of character that what they did is unexplainable?

After watching that video, do you honestly think that was the first time Ray Rice abused a woman?

Having met them  both in social situations a few times, yes. I agree with the punishment but I don't think that is who Ray Rice is.

There has never been a hint of anything like this in his past, no calls from neighbors about loud arguments, no previous charges that were dropped, no mysterious bruises or long periods of time where his wife/girlfriend was MIA. I think he was drunk, they got into a nasty argument and he made a stupid mistake.

Okay. Continue to socialize with him then. I don't care what a good guy he actually is, not after watching a video of him lay out his girlfriend and then react as though he swatted a mosquito.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Barthheart on September 10, 2014, 06:33:21 AM
Men don't hit women. No excuses. Drunk or not. First time or not. It's despicable act. The guy is a piece of shit. Period.
Up here the police don't need the abused to file a complaint. If they have evidence of an assault they can lay charges and arrest the POS.
Rice would be rotting in jail up here with that video.....
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 07:06:01 AM
Is that the bar, video?

It's a bar. It's enough to kick Ray Rice out of the league.

Quote
The guy from Carlina was convicted in court of beating his girlfriend, dragging her by the hair to the bathroom and trying to break her arm by smashing the toilet seat on it while threatening to kill her. He started Sunday.

He should be gone from the league as well then.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Steelgrave on September 10, 2014, 07:35:59 AM
6 seconds of your life does not define you.

In 6 seconds you can decide if you are going to jump into the water to save a drowning person or if you are going to pull out your Iphone and film it instead.

In 6 seconds you can decide to pull a trigger or not, steal from your employer, return the extra change the fast food cashier gave you by mistake or just drive off, help your neighbor struggling with a heavy load or shut your blinds.

In 6 seconds you can slam your fist into the cheek of the woman you outweight by 100 pounds and claim to love, knock her unconscious, then drag her limp body off the elevator or you can turn away from her anger and be a man.

Damn right six seconds can define who you are!

Listening to Baltimore sports radio yesterday was one excuse for Rice after another....words like "scapegoat", etc.... It's enough to gag a maggot.

And as for having met Rice socially, I've met Hall of Famer Earl Campbell on more than one occasion (HoF...words which will never be in front of Rice's name). Earl's a helluva nice guy and it's worth noting there has never been a hint of scandal attached to his name. But do I know him? I know the guy I've met in social settings. Who you are in public, among your fans and well wishers, doesn't mean that's who you are in private. Bottom line is you just don't do that to a woman, then claim that's not who you are. Because when the pressure was on....that's exactly who you were.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 08:26:36 AM

Greg Hardy appealed the conviction, meaning he's up for a new trial, this time in front of a jury (his choice). If he's found guilty again, dude is hosed, and he should be. Until the trial is over, there isn't a whole lot that's going to be done.


So it's not the evidence that matters, it's if you are convicted of something?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 08:27:44 AM
This sums it up pretty well.

"Maybe I'm more scared of everyone having the same opinion than most, maybe I don't like the typecasting of any individual as entirely good or evil, but the entire absence of context in social media mobs is downright terrifying to me. Social media mobs take complex issues and dumb them down into individualized dramas. RAY RICE IS EVIL! FIRE ROGER GOODELL! Pitchforks, angry words, but the end result is they often miss their targets and trivialize the larger issues at stake — why does it take a video of an athlete punching his wife to make us care about domestic assault?

Ray Rice isn't a saint, but he's not the worst player to ever play in the NFL either. Not even close to it. Every NFL team has players who have been accused of more serious crimes than Rice. Demonizing Rice or Goodell ignores the larger issue here, that the prosecutor's office watched this video and chose to allow Rice to entre a pretrial diversionary program. Doesn't that say much more about our society's views on domestic assault than what Goodell does? That's the story here, not the drama surrounding Rice."

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/ray-rice-story-shows-the-power-of-a-tape-090914   
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 08:31:17 AM
when it may have just been something so out of character that what they did is unexplainable?

After watching that video, do you honestly think that was the first time Ray Rice abused a woman?

Having met them  both in social situations a few times, yes. I agree with the punishment but I don't think that is who Ray Rice is.

There has never been a hint of anything like this in his past, no calls from neighbors about loud arguments, no previous charges that were dropped, no mysterious bruises or long periods of time where his wife/girlfriend was MIA. I think he was drunk, they got into a nasty argument and he made a stupid mistake.

Okay. Continue to socialize with him then. I don't care what a good guy he actually is, not after watching a video of him lay out his girlfriend and then react as though he swatted a mosquito.

I will if the opportunity comes up again though I think he may leave Baltimore, he's not the most popular guy here now.

You probably socialize, and even like, people who do far worse but you don't know about it because there are no tapes or accusations you know of. You make think different if it comes out that someone you KNOW is not that type of person actually made a mistake.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 08:33:26 AM

Using your examples, and in my opinion :
-I don't think Donte Stallworth is a murderer. I do think he's a guy who made an incredibly stupid and selfish mistake that cost someone else their life. It's kind of hard to like the guy much after that.
-Jamal Lewis is an unbelievably stupid human being.
-Robbie Alomar, on the other hand, HAS rehabbed his image...it took a long time, but he pulled it off. Others may feel differently, and that's fine.

I agree, they all made a mistake and then went on to show that they were not defined by it, that that is not who they are. I hope that Rice can do the same thing. He did a lot of good things.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Barthheart on September 10, 2014, 08:40:22 AM
Punching a woman in the face is not a mistake! Punching anyone in the face is not a mistake. It's a deliberate act of violence. How can you call it a mistake?!?

Having had women in my life that have been the targets of domestic violence, including my mother at the hands of her second husband, this is just that black and white to me. Men who hit women should be in jail.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 09:07:41 AM
I will if the opportunity comes up again though I think he may leave Baltimore, he's not the most popular guy here now.

Go figure .

Quote
You probably socialize, and even like, people who do far worse but you don't know about it because there are no tapes or accusations you know of. You make think different if it comes out that someone you KNOW is not that type of person actually made a mistake.

Actually, I'm a very good judge of character and generally give scumbags a wide berth.

If it did come out that someone I KNOW cold-cocked his girlfriend, I would completely reevaluate my opinion of and relationship with him. It's unlikely I would delude myself into thinking it was a one time incident and I should give him a pass because he's an otherwise good guy. And even if I did choose to go that route, I'd totally get it if the guy lost his job because a video was released showing him punching a woman in the face and then acting like it was no big deal. I'd also get it if a lot of others seeing that video thought the guy was a woman beating scumbag.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Martok on September 10, 2014, 10:03:14 AM
Heh.  Trust ProFootballMock to make their point in a way no one can miss (http://profootballmock.com/49ers-ray-mcdonald-sure-glad-secret-footage-exists-time-punched-fiancee/)...   



Quote
49ers Ray McDonald Sure Glad No Secret Footage Exists Of That Time He Punched His Fiancée


ANTA CLARA, CA – In the wake of the sudden release of Ravens RB Ray Rice, whose shockingly violent domestic assault on his then-fiancée was captured in February via a security camera in an Atlantic City casino elevator and subsequently leaked to the press early Monday morning, embattled 49ers DE Ray McDonald told reporters today that he, “sure is glad” that no secret video footage exists of that one time when he allegedly punched his pregnant fiancée in a horrifying fit of rage during an Aug. 31st birthday party at his San Jose residence.

“Whew, there but for the grace of God go I, y’know?” McDonald reportedly said while reading the news of Rice’s termination by the Ravens. “What happened to Ray is sad and all, but it’s a cautionary tale for all men: under no circumstances should you ever, EVER lay your hands on a woman in anger, if you think there might possibly be a security camera rolling nearby somewhere. That applies to pretty much any public place: parking lots, malls, elevators, etc. Part of being a mature NFL player means only striking your lady in the comfort of your own home, where your privacy can be assured.”

Added McDonald: “I mean, it’s just good business sense, career-wise. Roger Goodell has made it clear that he will NOT tolerate abuse of women. At least, not if any video footage that could embarrass the league is released to the public, anyway. And that’s a chance that we as players just can’t afford to take. If some hidden camera somewhere gets a good angle of you punching your chick when she starts getting mouthy, then your career could be FINISHED, man. That’s why I try to mentor the younger players by reminding them that they’re much better off smacking their girls in private, where all they’re risking is a much more sensible two to six week suspension, at the most.”

When shocked reporters suggested to McDonald that perhaps the better course of action would be to not strike women at all, under any circumstances, EVER, regardless of the existence of video cameras, McDonald tensed up for a moment, narrowed his eyes, then raised a hand as if to strike the assembled media pool while snarling, “You think you know better than me? I think maybe it’s time I give you a lesson in not talking back.”


Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 10:46:01 AM
Punching a woman in the face is not a mistake! Punching anyone in the face is not a mistake. It's a deliberate act of violence. How can you call it a mistake?!!

So if someone who has never hit a women before is stone drunk, gets into a heated argument and punches a woman they didn't make a mistake, it was some calculated move, some hidden inner desire?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 10:47:12 AM

Actually, I'm a very good judge of character and generally give scumbags a wide berth.


So even before this happened you thought Ray Rice was a scumbag because you knew he hit women?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 10:47:53 AM

If it did come out that someone I KNOW cold-cocked his girlfriend, I would completely reevaluate my opinion of and relationship with him. It's unlikely I would delude myself into thinking it was a one time incident and I should give him a pass because he's an otherwise good guy. And even if I did choose to go that route, I'd totally get it if the guy lost his job because a video was released showing him punching a woman in the face and then acting like it was no big deal. I'd also get it if a lot of others seeing that video thought the guy was a woman beating scumbag.

What if it was your brother? Would he be a scumbag forever to you?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 10:51:25 AM
What if it was your brother? Would he be a scumbag forever to you?

Yes. What part of all this am I being unclear about to you?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 10:54:00 AM

Actually, I'm a very good judge of character and generally give scumbags a wide berth.


So even before this happened you thought Ray Rice was a scumbag because you knew he hit women?

Of course I thought he was a scumbag before this happened. He was a Baltimore Raven.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Steelgrave on September 10, 2014, 10:58:35 AM
So how many hits does he get? Is one the limit? Two? Does being drunk automatically count as a mulligan? If this was a video of just some guy punching out a woman, would you still defend him? I've gone 54 years and never struck a woman in my life and to the best of my knowledge, none of the people I count as friends have ever struck a woman either. I'm not sure how anyone can defend him and not feel slimy, but hey....it's a free country. And for the rest of us who aren't Raven fans, be glad you're not picking up Baltimore sports radio. Fans are still calling in,  making excuses for the guy. Hard to stomach.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 11:00:32 AM
Punching a woman in the face is not a mistake! Punching anyone in the face is not a mistake. It's a deliberate act of violence. How can you call it a mistake?!!

So if someone who has never hit a women before is stone drunk, gets into a heated argument and punches a woman they didn't make a mistake, it was some calculated move, some hidden inner desire?

If your version of events is what happened and Ray Rice is such a standup character guy, then why didn't he come clean with that story to begin with? Why all the lies and cover up? Why make his wife publicly apologize for "her part" in it? Why insinuate that she provoked him and then hit her head after he defended himself?

Those are not the actions of a "good guy" who made a one time mistake. Those are the actions of an abusive scumbag covering his ass.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 10, 2014, 11:14:28 AM
FWIW - let's please make sure we keep this as civil as possible so we're keeping the focus on Ray Rice and his idiot actions, and please don't project those actions onto each other.  AFAIK, none of us are running around cold-cocking girlfriends in casino elevators, so make sure we keep the ire off of each other.

kthxbai!
 C:-)
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 11:43:37 AM
What if it was your brother? Would he be a scumbag forever to you?

Yes. What part of all this am I being unclear about to you?

That you would actually think your brother was a scumbag and have nothing to do with him if he hit a woman once in his life when he was in a drunken argument with her.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 11:53:50 AM
So how many hits does he get? Is one the limit? Two? Does being drunk automatically count as a mulligan? If this was a video of just some guy punching out a woman, would you still defend him? I've gone 54 years and never struck a woman in my life and to the best of my knowledge, none of the people I count as friends have ever struck a woman either. I'm not sure how anyone can defend him and not feel slimy, but hey....it's a free country. And for the rest of us who aren't Raven fans, be glad you're not picking up Baltimore sports radio. Fans are still calling in,  making excuses for the guy. Hard to stomach.

Who is defending him? I think the punishment is correct and that he deserves it.

I do take issue with labeling him a scumbag without knowing if this was the first time, as I suspect, or if he has done it before. Every person that ever hit a woman had a first time. Some never did it again because it just wasn't who there were or they were so ashamed of what they did they never did it again or it was just a bad situation that got out of hand (read really drunk and in a bad argument). Some continued to do it. I can forgive someone who made a big mistake and only did it once. I have no sympathy for someone who does it twice.

Given that some studies show that 1 in 3 women have been subject to domestic abuse chances are high that someone you count as a friend has done it at least once, unless you have a very small circle of friends. Say it was 25 years ago and a 1 time incident, would you hold it against them knowing them as you do now?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 11:54:27 AM
What if it was your brother? Would he be a scumbag forever to you?

Yes. What part of all this am I being unclear about to you?

That you would actually think your brother was a scumbag and have nothing to do with him if he hit a woman once in his life when he was in a drunken argument with her.

I was unclear about that? Because if I had a brother and he did what Ray Rice did, he would in fact be a scumbag to me forever.

Let's also be clear. This:
Quote
if he hit a woman once in his life when he was in a drunken argument with her.
is not the situation with Ray Rice.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 12:12:38 PM
If your version of events is what happened and Ray Rice is such a standup character guy, then why didn't he come clean with that story to begin with?

These are not 'my' versions of the events. These are the facts that I know. I could be wrong and if the facts come out that prove me wrong the I can admit it.

Do you have anything that would suggest he has done this before, an article about the cops going to his home to investigate a fight? A news article about him being out with his wife and them causing a disturbance? Any 'hushed' up charges revealed by an anonymous source?? If this was Suggs or Mayweather I'd be right there with you as there is previous history to suggest this is not the first time. 
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 12:14:31 PM

Let's also be clear. This:
Quote
if he hit a woman once in his life when he was in a drunken argument with her.
is not the situation with Ray Rice.

Do you have some information on this to share?
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 12:29:11 PM

Let's also be clear. This:
Quote
if he hit a woman once in his life when he was in a drunken argument with her.
is not the situation with Ray Rice.

Do you have some information on this to share?

Watch the video that was released this week. Observe him punching his girlfriend in the face with such force that she immediately crumples unconscious. Watch him half-assedly attempt to drag her out of the elevator and then stand off to the side seemingly unconcerned while someone else stood over her and attended to her.

Review his actions and statements after the incident. The attempts to downplay and cover up what happened, the efforts to make it seem like the girlfriend was somehow responsible for him punching her out.

Based on all that I am comfortable saying this is not a case of a "good guy" making a one time mistake because he was drunk. I am also comfortable saying that even if that were the first time Ray Rice ever punched out a woman, he is still a scumbag. Why? BECAUSE HE PUNCHED OUT A WOMAN.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 12:44:13 PM

Based on all that I am comfortable saying this is not a case of a "good guy" making a one time mistake because he was drunk. I am also comfortable saying that even if that were the first time Ray Rice ever punched out a woman, he is still a scumbag. Why? BECAUSE HE PUNCHED OUT A WOMAN.

You entitled to your opinion. Just don't be surprised if it turns out it is wrong.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 12:45:15 PM

Based on all that I am comfortable saying this is not a case of a "good guy" making a one time mistake because he was drunk. I am also comfortable saying that even if that were the first time Ray Rice ever punched out a woman, he is still a scumbag. Why? BECAUSE HE PUNCHED OUT A WOMAN.

You entitled to your opinion. Just don't be surprised if it turns out it is wrong.

Likewise.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 10, 2014, 12:46:25 PM

Based on all that I am comfortable saying this is not a case of a "good guy" making a one time mistake because he was drunk. I am also comfortable saying that even if that were the first time Ray Rice ever punched out a woman, he is still a scumbag. Why? BECAUSE HE PUNCHED OUT A WOMAN.

You entitled to your opinion. Just don't be surprised if it turns out it is wrong.

I won't be surprised if I am wrong. I'd be disappointed but all I know is what I know, which isn't everything.

Likewise.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 12:54:26 PM
I don't think I know everything about this situation, but even if it did turn out that this was the first time Ray Rice abused a woman it doesn't give him a pass. There are some lines we're not supposed to cross ever. Being too drunk or too angry to maintain control is not an excuse.

I truly do hope he turns his life around and becomes a better human being, but he should pay the price he is for his actions.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: -budd- on September 10, 2014, 05:09:52 PM
 I don't know what the future holds, but i pretty comfortable with the scumbag label or any other suitable term you want to apply to him and his actions. I couldn't really tell you what acts of contrition for however long would make me reevaluate my opinion of somebody that acted like he did in his situation. There are all kinds of scenarios that you could spin that might make you question the lifetime scumbag label. A person with PSTD, a person suffering from TBI,.... ect. ect. What extenuating circumstances would have to apply to avoid the scumbag forever label, i have no idea and can only make my judgments on a case by case basis. In this case i'm fine with the scumbag label. His total lack of concern after the fact pretty much seal's it for me, watching her head bounce off the rail and his lack of reaction to it   was enough for me. I have two boys about to enter adulthood soon and i hope i've demonstrated through my treatment and respect i show their mother and the sharing of my opinions on the subject that they would not engage in such behavior. I also have told them no matter where they are, in whatever state or country or no matter how old i am at the time i would be coming for them if i ever hear of them abusing a female. As to the emotional soup that situation would bring and whether or not i would apply the scumbag forever label to my own offspring  is a situation to terrible to ponder and a bridge i hope to never cross.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Steelgrave on September 10, 2014, 05:38:22 PM
I don't know what the future holds, but i pretty comfortable with the scumbag label or any other suitable term you want to apply to him and his actions. I couldn't really tell you what acts of contrition for however long would make me reevaluate my opinion of somebody that acted like he did in his situation. There are all kinds of scenarios that you could spin that might make you question the lifetime scumbag label. A person with PSTD, a person suffering from TBI,.... ect. ect. What extenuating circumstances would have to apply to avoid the scumbag forever label, i have no idea and can only make my judgments on a case by case basis. In this case i'm fine with the scumbag label. His total lack of concern after the fact pretty much seal's it for me, watching her head bounce off the rail and his lack of reaction to it   was enough for me. I have two boys about to enter adulthood soon and i hope i've demonstrated through my treatment and respect i show their mother and the sharing of my opinions on the subject that they would not engage in such behavior. I also have told them no matter where they are, in whatever state or country or no matter how old i am at the time i would be coming for them if i ever hear of them abusing a female. As to the emotional soup that situation would bring and whether or not i would apply the scumbag forever label to my own offspring  is a situation to terrible to ponder and a bridge i hope to never cross.

I couldn't agree more with every word you wrote, -budd-

My two sons, both of whom are now fine young men who make their Dad proud, they will tell you they got the same message from me about how to treat women that you gave your own boys. In adolescence I informed them that if I ever knew of either abusing a woman, for ten minutes they wouldn't be my blood and I would beat their asses like they were total strangers. It's never been an issue....they are respectful and are raising my grandsons to be the same way.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Barthheart on September 10, 2014, 06:11:35 PM
Punching a woman in the face is not a mistake! Punching anyone in the face is not a mistake. It's a deliberate act of violence. How can you call it a mistake?!!

So if someone who has never hit a women before is stone drunk, gets into a heated argument and punches a woman they didn't make a mistake, it was some calculated move, some hidden inner desire?

Yes.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Steelgrave on September 10, 2014, 06:23:03 PM
Uhh actually it was she who spit on him, not that that is an excuse for what he did. The odds of this being the first time are extremely high if you know anything about him and her.

From ProFootballTalk.com:

Three current or former security staffers of the now-bankrupt casino in Atlantic City described a grisly scene, with Rice spitting on his then-fiancee Janay Palmer twice.

One staffer who was at the scene said Rice’s first reaction when the elevator doors opened was to tell employees she was drunk.

“The first thing he [Rice] said is, ‘She’s intoxicated. She drank too much. I’m just trying to get her to the room,'” one said. “When she regained consciousness she said, ‘How could you do this to me? I’m the mother of your kid,'

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/10/rices-wife-how-could-you-do-this-to-me-im-the-mother-of-your-kid/
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 10, 2014, 07:10:48 PM
Heh.  Trust ProFootballMock to make their point in a way no one can miss (http://profootballmock.com/49ers-ray-mcdonald-sure-glad-secret-footage-exists-time-punched-fiancee/)...   



Quote
49ers Ray McDonald Sure Glad No Secret Footage Exists Of That Time He Punched His Fiancée


ANTA CLARA, CA – In the wake of the sudden release of Ravens RB Ray Rice, whose shockingly violent domestic assault on his then-fiancée was captured in February via a security camera in an Atlantic City casino elevator and subsequently leaked to the press early Monday morning, embattled 49ers DE Ray McDonald told reporters today that he, “sure is glad” that no secret video footage exists of that one time when he allegedly punched his pregnant fiancée in a horrifying fit of rage during an Aug. 31st birthday party at his San Jose residence.

“Whew, there but for the grace of God go I, y’know?” McDonald reportedly said while reading the news of Rice’s termination by the Ravens. “What happened to Ray is sad and all, but it’s a cautionary tale for all men: under no circumstances should you ever, EVER lay your hands on a woman in anger, if you think there might possibly be a security camera rolling nearby somewhere. That applies to pretty much any public place: parking lots, malls, elevators, etc. Part of being a mature NFL player means only striking your lady in the comfort of your own home, where your privacy can be assured.”

Added McDonald: “I mean, it’s just good business sense, career-wise. Roger Goodell has made it clear that he will NOT tolerate abuse of women. At least, not if any video footage that could embarrass the league is released to the public, anyway. And that’s a chance that we as players just can’t afford to take. If some hidden camera somewhere gets a good angle of you punching your chick when she starts getting mouthy, then your career could be FINISHED, man. That’s why I try to mentor the younger players by reminding them that they’re much better off smacking their girls in private, where all they’re risking is a much more sensible two to six week suspension, at the most.”

When shocked reporters suggested to McDonald that perhaps the better course of action would be to not strike women at all, under any circumstances, EVER, regardless of the existence of video cameras, McDonald tensed up for a moment, narrowed his eyes, then raised a hand as if to strike the assembled media pool while snarling, “You think you know better than me? I think maybe it’s time I give you a lesson in not talking back.”


www.theonion.com/articles/nfl-announces-new-zerotolerance-policy-on-videotap,36885/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default&recirc=unsponsored

Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Martok on September 10, 2014, 07:54:45 PM
^  Touche. 
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 11, 2014, 08:11:34 AM
Punching a woman in the face is not a mistake! Punching anyone in the face is not a mistake. It's a deliberate act of violence. How can you call it a mistake?!!

So if someone who has never hit a women before is stone drunk, gets into a heated argument and punches a woman they didn't make a mistake, it was some calculated move, some hidden inner desire?

I didn't know you were a mind reader but yes to what?

Yes.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 11, 2014, 08:13:05 AM

One staffer who was at the scene said Rice’s first reaction when the elevator doors opened was to tell employees she was drunk.


Maybe that guy didn't listen to the audio on the tape where the first thing said was by a security person and it was 'Shes drunk right' and Rice says nothing.

"In the videos that surfaced Monday, Rice and Palmer are seen hitting each other before he knocks her off her feet and into a railing.

The higher-quality video shown to the AP shows Rice made no attempt to cover up what happened. After Palmer collapses, he drags her out of the elevator and is met by some hotel staff. Someone is heard saying, "She's drunk, right?" And then, "No cops." Rice didn't respond."

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/longer-rice-video-features-obscenities-spitting-25369443
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 11, 2014, 08:15:45 AM
I don't think I know everything about this situation, but even if it did turn out that this was the first time Ray Rice abused a woman it doesn't give him a pass. There are some lines we're not supposed to cross ever. Being too drunk or too angry to maintain control is not an excuse.

I truly do hope he turns his life around and becomes a better human being, but he should pay the price he is for his actions.

I have no problem with the punishment, he needs to pay the price for what he did. He has never made an excuse for what he did, he accepted that he did something very wrong and said he would take whatever punishment was deemed proper. To me that doesn't sound like a guy who does this all the time, it sounds like a guy who realized he fucked up big time and hurt a lot of people.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Arctic Blast on September 11, 2014, 01:18:29 PM

Greg Hardy appealed the conviction, meaning he's up for a new trial, this time in front of a jury (his choice). If he's found guilty again, dude is hosed, and he should be. Until the trial is over, there isn't a whole lot that's going to be done.


So it's not the evidence that matters, it's if you are convicted of something?

In terms of league punishment, of course that's what matters, same as with any other employer...unless they want to face a wrongful termination lawsuit if one of these guys is found not guilty.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: -budd- on September 11, 2014, 02:43:39 PM
with their code of conduct policy they have a lot of latitude even if they are found not guilty. Look at what went down with big ben he wasn't found guilty and sat for what.... 4 games if i remember correctly.  Being found not guilty....doesn't mean you didn't do it.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 11, 2014, 06:57:37 PM
with their code of conduct policy they have a lot of latitude even if they are found not guilty. Look at what went down with big ben he wasn't found guilty and sat for what.... 4 games if i remember correctly.  Being found not guilty....doesn't mean you didn't do it.

Plus the team can bench or cut anyone they want for any reason. Even if Rice won an appeal of his lifetime ban because of a double jeopardy situation , which he won't, no team would sign him so he would effectively be out of football.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 11, 2014, 07:18:44 PM
He's not getting back in. The way this thing went down and the way that it was totally mishandled, he will not be coming back as a player. Maybe he could someday as an assistant or something, but the last thing the NFL is ever going to want to see again is that video.

If this had been handled up front and he had been given and accepted a year suspension (and said and done all the "right things" during that year), I think he would have been able to come back and the general public would have accepted (ignored) it. It's too late for any of that now.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 12, 2014, 06:39:10 AM
He's not getting back in. The way this thing went down and the way that it was totally mishandled, he will not be coming back as a player. Maybe he could someday as an assistant or something, but the last thing the NFL is ever going to want to see again is that video.


I thought the same thing about Vick but time heals so it might be possible for him to play again though I think he should just find another vocation now and stick to it.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 12, 2014, 07:40:58 AM
If this had been handled up front and he had been given and accepted a year suspension (and said and done all the "right things" during that year), I think he would have been able to come back and the general public would have accepted (ignored) it. It's too late for any of that now.

Nothing to do with excusing Ray Rice's actions but the more that comes out the more you realize that the NFL also really fucked it up.

When I saw the first video of Rice dragging his girlfriend out of the elevator I thought he deserved a 2 game suspension just for the way he pulled her out, even if she just passed out on her own. That is not what you do. It reminded me of a caveman.
Then when he only got 2 games total and Goodell said the punishment fit the incident I figured either she did just pass out or something accidental happened because you KNEW there was a video (it's a casino for christ sake and they film everything) assumed that the NFL had seen the tape and knew exactly what happened.
Then the 2nd tape comes out an Goodell denies that the NFL ever saw it.
Then it comes out that the video had been sent to the NFL and someone watched it and even commented on how horrible it was.
Then it comes out that Rice told Goodell during the investigation that he punched his wife and knocked her out.
How can an organization that has faced so many 'crisis' moments in the past screw this up so bad? They aren't a bunch of dummies there, how could think the video of inside the elevator would not eventually come out and how could they NOT get the video before making the initial decision?
It makes you think they just didn't want to know what really happened.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 12, 2014, 07:53:09 AM
I completely agree about the Goodell and the League totally fucking up on this. And it's a clear indication of how the League has been completely mishandling domestic violence issues for years (along with other major sports which in turn is a reflection of society at large). There are players who will start on Sunday who have done far worse to women than Ray Rice has done, but because none of itwas so vividly captured on video no one noticed or cared very much if they did. I sincerely hope that starts to change now with the level of attention that the Ray Rice case has brought.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 12, 2014, 08:30:11 AM
I completely agree about the Goodell and the League totally fucking up on this. And it's a clear indication of how the League has been completely mishandling domestic violence issues for years (along with other major sports which in turn is a reflection of society at large). There are players who will start on Sunday who have done far worse to women than Ray Rice has done, but because none of itwas so vividly captured on video no one noticed or cared very much if they did. I sincerely hope that starts to change now with the level of attention that the Ray Rice case has brought.

I agree and there is no reason for it. The league owed Rice nothing and had no reason to go easy on him. They could have given a year suspension right off the bat and justified it since you get 4 games for recreational drug use. They totally botched it and deserve all the fallout they get.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 12, 2014, 09:08:05 AM
Goodell needs to go as well, imho.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 12, 2014, 09:13:50 AM
I'd also be happy to see the NFL revisit other domestic violence cases that they've allowed to slide. Pretty sure they could address it under the existing conduct policy, even retroactively. If they do it now with the current level of public scrutiny, I can't see the Player's Association trying to defend abusers of women.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Marty Ward on September 12, 2014, 09:51:30 AM
I'd also be happy to see the NFL revisit other domestic violence cases that they've allowed to slide. Pretty sure they could address it under the existing conduct policy, even retroactively. If they do it now with the current level of public scrutiny, I can't see the Player's Association trying to defend abusers of women.

I'm not so sure about retroactively doing things. How far do you go back?
I think they could make all suspensions conditional on the outcome of any legal investigation or if other evidence comes to light before the suspension is filled. If they have a policy in place why do they have to wait for months until a court case is finished. They do their own investigations anyway so what is the purpose of them if they just wait for the courts before doing anything? 
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 12, 2014, 10:27:37 AM
this was pretty damned funny
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/roger-goodell-need-to-step-down/
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on September 12, 2014, 10:54:48 AM
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: OJsDad on September 13, 2014, 12:34:46 PM
Just out of curiosity, what is the players union take on all of this.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: MetalDog on September 13, 2014, 01:21:24 PM
They are too busy trying to get Josh Gordon's suspension reduced and giving the NFL blood testing on HGH.  Other than that, I haven't heard anything.  It's my understanding that the union is pretty ineffective.  Not like the MLBPA.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: OJsDad on September 15, 2014, 06:35:39 PM
So, does this mean everyone will want the union president fired also;

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nflpa-expect-to-file-ray-rice-appeal-tuesday-091514? (http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nflpa-expect-to-file-ray-rice-appeal-tuesday-091514?)

Quote
NEW YORK   —   
The players' union on Tuesday plans to appeal the indefinite suspension the NFL handed to Ray Rice last week.

NFL Players Association spokesman George Atallah told The Associated Press on Monday "we are expecting to appeal before the deadline on Tuesday night." That deadline is 11:59 p.m. EDT.

Rice originally was suspended two games under the NFL's personal conduct policy for striking his then-fiancee in a hotel elevator. When videotape of that incident was made public and showed Rice punching his now-wife Janay, knocking her unconscious, the Baltimore Ravens released the running back.

Almost immediately after that, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell made Rice's suspension indefinite.

Although he doesn't have a team, Rice remains a member of the NFLPA.

Rice can apply for reinstatement when he convinces Goodell that he is "addressing this issue." Rice can avoid prosecution and a criminal record by completing a pretrial intervention program, a resolution prosecutors said they agreed to after consulting with Janay Rice.

The NFL hired former FBI director Robert Mueller to look into how the league sought and handled evidence in the domestic violence case.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Arctic Blast on September 15, 2014, 08:14:39 PM
Nope. He's representing the player, which is his job. And honestly, it doesn't make a lot of sense to release a new policy stating a 6 game suspension for a first offense, and then throwing down an indefinite suspension instead.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: OJsDad on September 18, 2014, 12:18:41 PM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/11544540/nfl-players-take-fight-violence

Quote
Time for players to stand vs. violence
By Johnette Howard
ESPNNewYork.com

NEW YORK -- There is little make-believe talk this week that what goes on outside NFL team buildings stays outside the building during this young-but-embattled season.

Giants linebacker Mathias Kiwanuka was at MetLife Stadium on Sunday when a plane towing a banner that read "Goodell Must Go" flew overhead before New York's game against Arizona. Eli Manning says it's hard to ignore the image crises the NFL is fighting when it's on TV day after day.

By the time Kiwanuka, Manning and Victor Cruz -- three of the most thoughtful Giants -- spoke with the media Wednesday afternoon, they didn't pretend they were too deep into preparations for Houston this week to hear how the NFL's major corporate sponsors such as Anheuser-Busch had complained about the league's bungling of its child abuse and domestic violence scandals.


They knew NFL league office remained in full crises-control mode, too, with commissioner Roger Goodell still out of sight. They saw the amended punishments handed out to Ravens running back Ray Rice and Vikings star Adrian Peterson, the consternation that the Panthers' Greg Hardy and the 49ers' Ray McDonald are attracting for not being immediately benched. They agreed little had been handled correctly.

But there is still a missing piece to this story, too, you know. And Kiwanuka, Manning and Cruz all landed upon it independently as each of them stood by his locker Wednesday, saying some things that haven't been said enough.

What is stopping NFL players themselves from carrying the fight against domestic violence in their ranks?

What is the responsibility of players themselves to respond to the league's poor record on domestic abuse rather than leave it to sponsors or the league?

Why hasn't there been a unified, forceful -- even imaginative -- initiative undertaken by the players' association as a group, especially since player after player has complained how the many good guys are being tarred by the actions of a few?

Said Kiwanuka: "Speaking as a member of the players' association, you want the league to handle [these cases] right. You want them to get it right the first time. You want to get all the facts first. But if someone does something wrong, then they should take their punishment like a man. ... A few cases like this ruin 100 good deeds that are going on every week."

Added Manning: "These are serious issues that we've got to make sure don't happen and we can't accept from players, from teammates. We don't like it when the NFL gets a black eye on anything. As players, we've got to be aware of what's going on. ... Be good citizens in the community."


“The reason to do it isn't because of how public opinion is running now, because what happens when public opinion goes away? That only creates cynicism. The reason for players to do it is because it's right.

”Across the room, Cruz said: "Players have to do a good job of keeping order. ... It's up to leaders of each team to keep teammates in check. ... Player to player."

That's a stronger, more proactive personal-responsibility message than union president Eric Winston embraced earlier this week, when he said that the NFLPA is ready to sit down with the league if the NFL wants to discuss what to do about domestic violence.

Why does the union need an invitation?

Why not have NFL players own this issue rather than continue to let the issue demonize them?

As Hall of Fame receiver Cris Carter pointedly asked on television Sunday, sometimes amid tears as he talked about how violence against women has touched his own family: Why are the vast majority of players, who do nothing illegal, surrendering power so easily to the likes of Rice or Peterson, the minority that does behave badly? Especially when, as Manning said, learning the details of how the Vikings' Peterson hit his 4-year-old son with a switch "make you just want to go home and hug your own child."

"I saw Cris Carter speak," Kiwanuka said, "and you can see why someone who experienced that in his life would want to cry over this. ... I agree with him."

Kiwanuka also agrees that if a young man with ALS can spark a recent national movement by coming up with a fundraising idea like the Ice Bucket Challenge, and the NFL players can get so demonstrably behind the work the league does for breast cancer awareness, there's nothing stopping the NFLPA from, say, independently adopting the fight against domestic violence as their own cause, and maybe even show a little ingenuity of their own in the process.

Super Bowl Sunday is already called America's unofficial national holiday.

While the two-decade-old assertion that Super Bowl Sunday is the most violent day of the year for women has been debunked again and again as a myth, domestic violence experts add the actual truth is much worse: Domestic violence is a horrific problem every day of the year. A woman is assaulted every nine seconds in America and one in four females will experience abuse in their lifetime.

These are not trifling stats.


What if the players engaged the league and advertisers to take a look at Super Bowl Sunday -- their most high-profile collaboration of the year, the one day when the players and the league and the sponsors' ambitions to leverage the game's colossal popularity all actually dovetail perfectly -- and dedicate the day to some effort to combat domestic violence? Something similar to how the league throws its muscle behind breast cancer awareness month.

Give the new campaign a sharp name. Make it happen.

Think how much NFL players could change perceptions if the effort to stop domestic violence originated among the players themselves, not the league or a beer company eager to protect market share.

"It could work. And it's something that could be done on Super Bowl Sunday this year," Kiwanuka nodded.

For the players themselves, leading the league's work against domestic violence could flip an issue that demonizes too many of them unfairly.

The sight of players actively leading the NFL's fight against domestic violence from the ground up rather than the league office down could be a certifiable point of pride instead.

It would be something more useful and far-reaching than just a punitive policy in which the league office punishes offenders and everyone moves on.

And it would make the players' personal stories more important.

So far, one of the most powerful asides of the Rice/Peterson fallout has been the high number of other NFL players who have stepped forward to reveal how domestic violence has touched their family's lives. As it turns out, what they've been saying all along is true: They're not all perpetrators. Sometimes their families are victims, same as you or you or you.

The Ravens' Chris Canty choked up on camera after more information came out about Rice and his suspension. Hall of Famer Howie Long has spoken about being shuttled among relatives who raised him as a child, and tough times he had. Other players have spoken of sisters, parents and other relatives who've been raped or killed in domestic violence incidents.

Nothing is stopping players from organizing an effort to combat domestic violence no matter what the owners or sponsors or Goodell does.

"The reason to do it isn't because of how public opinion is running now, because what happens when public opinion goes away?" Kiwanuka stresses. "That only creates cynicism. The reason for players to do it is because it's right."

Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 21, 2014, 10:55:23 AM
(https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10698533_764571320282421_5723336983823370128_n.jpg?oh=1038774bcbb40fdf4fd863d46b2926a1&oe=54D0A50D)
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: endfire79 on September 21, 2014, 11:03:30 AM
... I guess its more convenient to blame the gladiators :)

I won't try to defend congressmen/women (I'm not crazy), but I think I've seen variations of that post flying around the internet for a while.  Snopes has flagged it up as well.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp)
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 21, 2014, 12:54:14 PM
that image was posted by Gary Payton on his official page.  I thought it was funny where it was coming from :)
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: endfire79 on September 21, 2014, 01:24:47 PM
...man I haven't kept up with NBA for a long time, and it shows when I can recall the Sonics series back then in 96 more than recent NBA news!
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 21, 2014, 08:25:09 PM
...man I haven't kept up with NBA for a long time, and it shows when I can recall the Sonics series back then in 96 more than recent NBA news!

Ha, yeah, I think they played the Rockets. That was about the last time I payed close attention to the NBA, too.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: OJsDad on November 28, 2014, 04:55:16 PM
Rice won his appeal and can be signed by any team now.  Who's going to jump.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: bayonetbrant on November 28, 2014, 05:47:25 PM
the Raiders
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: mirth on November 28, 2014, 08:39:57 PM
Go NFL. Give me your murderers, give me your rapists, give me your domestic assaulters.
Title: Re: Ray Rice
Post by: Arctic Blast on November 29, 2014, 03:10:45 PM
Not surprising. The league created a set of rules saying 6 games for a first offense, and then completely stomped all over those with an indefinite suspension (all to continue the illusion that they knew nothing about what had really happened).

As for Rice's career, nobody touches him this year. He'll get a training camp invite from a good team that has enough PR credibility built up to take the hit, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's done. Running backs creeping up on 30 don't tend to have much of a market.