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Welcome => GrogCast Feedback => Topic started by: bayonetbrant on July 07, 2015, 07:12:03 AM

Title: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 07, 2015, 07:12:03 AM
http://grogheads.com/?podcast=the-grogcast-episode-18-part-1-of-2

http://grogheads.com/?podcast=the-grogcast-episode-18-part-2-of-2

And we tackle the age-old sure-fire debate-starter:  "What is a wargame?"
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 07, 2015, 07:40:39 AM
King of the Tabletop can be found here:  http://annarchive.com/files/Drmg077.pdf

And if you're wondering why it's linked...  you should listen!

Updated graphics here on BGG: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/39111/carthaginians-cleaned-and-colored-counters-kott

Original counters here (https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic369110.jpg) and here (https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic369112.jpg)
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Bison on July 07, 2015, 08:56:42 AM
Heh.  I'd forgotten Victory Games published the James Bond 007 game.  Man I loved that RPG.
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: mirth on July 07, 2015, 01:16:29 PM
Good job wrapping up the season  O0
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: BanzaiCat on July 07, 2015, 02:24:49 PM
Heh.  I'd forgotten Victory Games published the James Bond 007 game.  Man I loved that RPG.

I still have the boxed RPG and the You Only Live Twice adventure, too.
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Bison on July 07, 2015, 02:46:13 PM
Heh.  I'd forgotten Victory Games published the James Bond 007 game.  Man I loved that RPG.

I still have the boxed RPG and the You Only Live Twice adventure, too.

I also had the Q Manual and Goldfinger module.  Great system.
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 07, 2015, 05:29:08 PM
Episode 18 part 1
Terrible, terrible,
...
...
What do you mean this is the last episode? Lazy bums, you just ruined an hr of my weeks!  :P

Good episode. Welcome Bison, you present your thoughts well.

Regarding what is a wargame, read Philip Sabin's Simulating War. The whole chapter 1 is on the subject. I am not going to pull a snippet for anyone because you should have the book. You are remis if you dont. Do not infer he has a disagreement with the thoughts of the cast, just read it, the views are all worth thinking on.

That is all, i have to go start part 2.
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 07, 2015, 05:56:30 PM
Regarding what is a wargame, read Philip Sabin's Simulating War. The whole chapter 1 is on the subject. I am not going to pull a snippet for anyone because you should have the book. You are remis if you dont. Do not infer he has a disagreement with the thoughts of the cast, just read it, the views are all worth thinking on.

Page 17, end of first paragraph on that page, endnote #79.  I'll wait for you to look it up ;)
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 07, 2015, 06:16:24 PM
http://courses.wlv.ac.uk/course.asp?code=WR003H31UVD

Your name is in the footnote. Do you teach in this program?
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 07, 2015, 06:18:37 PM
It a UK university, scratch that.
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: panzerde on July 08, 2015, 05:21:31 PM
In comment on the discussion of CCG versus "traditional" game stores and the revenue that CCGs generate - I think Craig is right, but the outcome at least here in Indianapolis is that there are no game stores in Indianapolis that carry anything but CCGs and Warhammer/Fantasy Flight. No one carries any traditional board games anymore.

That's a pretty strong argument that the economics are heavily in favor of CCGs. I buy all my games online now because there are no FLGS's interested in my business.
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Bison on July 08, 2015, 06:31:39 PM
That's actually pretty surprising given the size of Indianapolis.  I'd think there'd be a traditional game store in that market.  Here's the other problem too.  So I went to my FLGS today and looked at Star Wars Armada, because I'm interested purchasing the game.  The FLGS wanted $99 before tax and $15 to $30 for the expansion ships.  Online I can get the base game for $65.  So do I support the FLGS and eat the extra $30 or save myself some money and order online?
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 08, 2015, 07:00:05 PM
Call the flgs to ask them if they will price match.
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Bison on July 08, 2015, 07:41:32 PM
They don't sell in bulk like the online retailers, so they'd make no money on the transaction.
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 08, 2015, 08:31:04 PM
Give them the opportunity to offer something. If the say F O, then you can happily take your business elsewhere. If they can come up with something worthwhile, you have a win-win. You risk losing 5 min on the phone.
Title: Re: Discuss GrogCast Episode 18! (Yes, you can discuss both parts here)
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on July 08, 2015, 11:37:03 PM
Back on topic, I would like to add a few thoughts on 'what is a wargame'.

First, i see a simulation as a model of some process. You can simulate a jet or a race car , which are physics type simulations. You can also simulate an economy or an ai which are models based on theory.

A game to me, brings up game theory. Originally there was theory for zero sum games. There is some pot that everyone wants to win or the pot is avoiding a loss like the classic Prisoner's Dilemma. Later there was theory for cooperative games. See Morgenstern and von Neumann. So games in the game theory mathematical methods are not all about winners and losers/ competition. There are many cooperative games.

Which leads to strategy. Remember Sun Tsu said the highest level of strategy gets you your aims without war. If you have to have a bloody war the General has failed to prepare the situation. You can think of the bloodless taking of Crimea as a big strategy win in Sun Tsu terms, as far as it goes.

So strategy is about methods to achieve goals. we often think of wargames as strategy games. The classification of strategy games, on Steam for example, is mostly what we would call wargames. Yeah, there is tetris and crap as well.

I would say wargames are things that typically have a military focus, usually with different militaries in conflict. Do such things achieve the goals of the State? Historically yes. In the modern world no. Historically, the winner of a war would dictate life for the regions of the belligerents going forward. In modern State war everyone loses far more than they gain. So IMO, historical wargames are decisive worthwhile studies. A modern conflict needs to cover far more than the military aspect to determine anything meaningful.

The post is getting long so I will stop there.