Wait, go read the Stellaris thread first... ::)
Wait, go read the Stellaris thread first... ::)
Don't listen to the idiots claiming Stellaris is another HoI 3. Sure, some of the mechanics might not make people happy but its hardly the bug filled mess HoI 3 was on release. The stutter bug that many had on day one was hot fixed within 24 hours of release.
I've never played an of the HoI games, and despite my lack of interest in yet another WW2 game, I'm really looking forward to HoI IV. I went back read some of the older dev diaries, but a lot of those are from last year and I'm not sure how current those mechanics are now.
Wait, go read the Stellaris thread first... ::)
Don't listen to the idiots claiming Stellaris is another HoI 3. Sure, some of the mechanics might not make people happy but its hardly the bug filled mess HoI 3 was on release. The stutter bug that many had on day one was hot fixed within 24 hours of release.
I've never played an of the HoI games, and despite my lack of interest in yet another WW2 game, I'm really looking forward to HoI IV. I went back read some of the older dev diaries, but a lot of those are from last year and I'm not sure how current those mechanics are now.
Nobody in the GH Stellaris thread is claiming it is another HOI3 in terms of bugs. Only that the current state of the game is a big let down from initial expectations and prerelease hype. Careful who you call an idiot around here. :crazy2:
Wait, go read the Stellaris thread first... ::)
Don't listen to the idiots claiming Stellaris is another HoI 3. Sure, some of the mechanics might not make people happy but its hardly the bug filled mess HoI 3 was on release. The stutter bug that many had on day one was hot fixed within 24 hours of release.
I've never played an of the HoI games, and despite my lack of interest in yet another WW2 game, I'm really looking forward to HoI IV. I went back read some of the older dev diaries, but a lot of those are from last year and I'm not sure how current those mechanics are now.
Nobody in the GH Stellaris thread is claiming it is another HOI3 in terms of bugs. Only that the current state of the game is a big let down from initial expectations and prerelease hype. Careful who you call an idiot around here. :crazy2:
I agree with JH....the disappointment being posted with Stellaris is a direct measure of the prerelease hype and resulting very high expectations. I'm not saying there will or won't be disappointment with HoI4...but the prerelease hype and expectations are very similar to those first posted in the Stellaris thread.
Wait, go read the Stellaris thread first... ::)
Don't listen to the idiots claiming Stellaris is another HoI 3. Sure, some of the mechanics might not make people happy but its hardly the bug filled mess HoI 3 was on release. The stutter bug that many had on day one was hot fixed within 24 hours of release.
I've never played an of the HoI games, and despite my lack of interest in yet another WW2 game, I'm really looking forward to HoI IV. I went back read some of the older dev diaries, but a lot of those are from last year and I'm not sure how current those mechanics are now.
Nobody in the GH Stellaris thread is claiming it is another HOI3 in terms of bugs. Only that the current state of the game is a big let down from initial expectations and prerelease hype. Careful who you call an idiot around here. :crazy2:
I agree with JH....the disappointment being posted with Stellaris is a direct measure of the prerelease hype and resulting very high expectations. I'm not saying there will or won't be disappointment with HoI4...but the prerelease hype and expectations are very similar to those first posted in the Stellaris thread.
One more thought, Stellaris is a complete departure from anything that Paradox has done before. HOI4 isn't just their fourth try on WWII, but is more in line with the type of games they're traditionally done.
Anyone remember the 'demo' for HOI 3 they released? They released the full game by mistake. That was a hoot.
Anyone remember the 'demo' for HOI 3 they released? They released the full game by mistake. That was a hoot.
Really? That's hilarious. I don't remember it at all. Possibly because HoI3 was one of the last games I bought as a physical DVD -- hadn't yet drunk the Steam kool-aid.
Beat by Sandman.
Expansion Pass #1:
Includes the first 2 expansion and it’s related content, to an estimated value of $49.99.
Get 25% off on GMG
Use voucher code: IRON25
Works on all editions, for how many copies you want!
http://steamcommunity.com/app/394360/discussions/0/364041776199233711/
I've read that for a HoI newbie it's best to start off playing the game as a smaller nation.
Waiting here too.They also have smaller set-piece scenarios like the Bulge or North Africa, which are good to get a feel for the combat side of the game.
Too many times buying a new game, only to have it a buggy POS.
I've never played any of the HoI series, so this will be a huge leap for me.
I've read that for a HoI newbie it's best to start off playing the game as a smaller nation.
I will pick up a preorder key if we see the cheap $26 preorder keys available for HOI4 like we did Stellaris before they then went up in price.
I was never able to overcome the complexity of HOI3 so am hoping HOI4 will be more approachable to newbies/idiots like me.
I will pick up a preorder key if we see the cheap $26 preorder keys available for HOI4 like we did Stellaris before they then went up in price.
I was never able to overcome the complexity of HOI3 so am hoping HOI4 will be more approachable to newbies/idiots like me.
You CAN overcome it. I did, and I also thought it was insurmountable. I have a thread around here somewhere about the odyssey.
I will pick up a preorder key if we see the cheap $26 preorder keys available for HOI4 like we did Stellaris before they then went up in price.
I was never able to overcome the complexity of HOI3 so am hoping HOI4 will be more approachable to newbies/idiots like me.
You CAN overcome it. I did, and I also thought it was insurmountable. I have a thread around here somewhere about the odyssey.
I will pick up a preorder key if we see the cheap $26 preorder keys available for HOI4 like we did Stellaris before they then went up in price.
I was never able to overcome the complexity of HOI3 so am hoping HOI4 will be more approachable to newbies/idiots like me.
You CAN overcome it. I did, and I also thought it was insurmountable. I have a thread around here somewhere about the odyssey.
Apparently Greenmangaming are doing a similar deal. I don't know the details though.Yes you're right Huw, looks like GMG has it now for 25% off with code IRON25 (USD$29.99), and imperialgames too (USD$28.99) for the Cadet version. Pre-ordered from the latter and got the key immediately which activated on Steam already.
+1 robot. I love 3 with black ice and I am very concerned with some of the changes (simplification) they have out in place for 4. Over on the paradox forums there are battles raging over this issue. For example they have removed fuel and oil is all encompassing but it doesn't impact units so that you can still produce and use armored/mech/motor units even if you have zero oil...that's just tip of the iceberg from what I gathered in some quick reading...
So this means that the abstract "supply" of HOI3 is now instead requests for specific equipment instead which fits a lot better in with HOI4's equipment and production focus. This also means that there is no separate fuel need as such in the game, this instead is included in production of replacement equipment which need Oil (all tanks, trucks etc). Before everyone chokes on their friday beer give this some thought. Being able to stockpile fuel generally leads to the same problems as all other kinds of stockpiling when it comes to hindsight, so by wrapping it into the actual production of equipment requests to units (also nobody would request a tank without diesel to run it, and if they did it wouldn't really be usable as a tank) everything clicks into place and player doesn't have to micro manage all movement, airplane rebasing etc to try to avoid fuel waste and focus on making sure they have access to a strategic Oil resource and replacement equipment and a clear path for units to be supplied.
Mixed feeling for me. Love that it's getting simpler but quite sad at the same time due to loss of detail. How would that affect Japan's oil problem where they need to move around oil from Boreneo as done in WITP? Will it break the Pacific War? Or it's now more about stationing convoys and escorts on sea areas.+1 robot. I love 3 with black ice and I am very concerned with some of the changes (simplification) they have out in place for 4. Over on the paradox forums there are battles raging over this issue. For example they have removed fuel and oil is all encompassing but it doesn't impact units so that you can still produce and use armored/mech/motor units even if you have zero oil...that's just tip of the iceberg from what I gathered in some quick reading...
Paradox have said this in regards to Oil:QuoteSo this means that the abstract "supply" of HOI3 is now instead requests for specific equipment instead which fits a lot better in with HOI4's equipment and production focus. This also means that there is no separate fuel need as such in the game, this instead is included in production of replacement equipment which need Oil (all tanks, trucks etc). Before everyone chokes on their friday beer give this some thought. Being able to stockpile fuel generally leads to the same problems as all other kinds of stockpiling when it comes to hindsight, so by wrapping it into the actual production of equipment requests to units (also nobody would request a tank without diesel to run it, and if they did it wouldn't really be usable as a tank) everything clicks into place and player doesn't have to micro manage all movement, airplane rebasing etc to try to avoid fuel waste and focus on making sure they have access to a strategic Oil resource and replacement equipment and a clear path for units to be supplied.
So, if I understand correctly:
For fuel-burning units to be refuelled, their nation needs access to:
1. A Strategic Oil Resource
2. Be able to trace clear path for replacement supply (fuel is abstracted inside this)
Full dev diary on Supply here:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-33rd-development-diary-supply.891122/
Mixed feeling for me. Love that it's getting simpler but quite sad at the same time due to loss of detail. How would that affect Japan's oil problem where they need to move around oil from Boreneo as done in WITP? Will it break the Pacific War?
Regarding NATO map counters. Were they actually used in WW2 given that NATO was not around?
Regarding NATO map counters. Were they actually used in WW2 given that NATO was not around?
Lately I'm having a fun time playing Supreme Ruler 2020. A flawed game but I love the details on the economy, variety of military units, unit designs, and logistics.
The point I'm making is that it would be awesome to recreate those maps we are familiar with from historical articles and books, in the game. HOI 4 actually has mostly everything below except the divisional symbols.
[This is *exactly* why I'm so excited about HOI4's Battle Planner feature.
Mr Wester says on their video "we make hardcore games for a demanding audience". I'm not sure whether everyone will agree with that.
Mr Wester says on their video "we make hardcore games for a demanding audience". I'm not sure whether everyone will agree with that.
Oh, come on. You aren't seeing the wood for the trees. Do you really think that changing the way oil production and supply works is opening the game up to the great unwashed? I'm sure all the console gamers will descend on it now!
I get that grogs will want things to be done in different ways, but this is all still pretty damn hardcore. HoI4 is most definitely still a niche title.
Can strategic bombers still fly across Europe without getting intercepted, or did that get fixed?
I've idly been watching some HOI4 footage from the "World War Wednesdays" series on YouTube and man, I feel like a 5 year old waiting for Christmas. I want to get my hands on this so badly... It looks completely amazing.
Lately I'm having a fun time playing Supreme Ruler 2020. A flawed game but I love the details on the economy, variety of military units, unit designs, and logistics.
You should really be playing Supreme Ruler Ultimate. It is the pinnacle of the series and combines pretty much everything from each prior game in the series.
Am I the only one watching these videos and getting totally turned off by them. Hungary taking over all of Eastern Europe, and becoming a big unstoppable blob. Is this the typical BS where if you take over a country and you get all its population and industry without penalty? Cant wait to see the first person who takes over the entire world with Paraguay !!!! Seriously, it's this type of shit that is not even realistically plausible, that has turned me off from all the games in the Hearts of Iron Series.
Ya Hungary conquering half of Germany, Poland, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Austria, and whoever I forgot from the video, could totally happen !!! ( Go to the 1 hour mark)
I never understood the concept of wanting to play a game to experience something exactly the way it happened historically.I don't know the ins and outs of research, development, industry, infrastructure, commerce and any other strategic attributes of any country in the run up to WWII. As I don't know any of that and the game starts around 1936 (does this one?), I'm quite happy to believe that Poland can accelerate it's research and development, increase infrastructure having an effect on finances and therefore abilities not normally attributable to them during WWII.
What if Poland moved first...what if France extended the maginot line through the low counties or at least their borders with them.
I like historical contexts but to me playing a historical strategic game is seeing what else could have happened
I never understood the concept of wanting to play a game to experience something exactly the way it happened historically.
What if Poland moved first...what if France extended the maginot line through the low counties or at least their borders with them.
I like historical contexts but to me playing a historical strategic game is seeing what else could have happened
I would buy that argument though. I'd like to see some historical constraints.., but I still want to change history.I never understood the concept of wanting to play a game to experience something exactly the way it happened historically.
What if Poland moved first...what if France extended the maginot line through the low counties or at least their borders with them.
I like historical contexts but to me playing a historical strategic game is seeing what else could have happened
I agree with this but it has to be historically plausible...
I like strategy games - I'm just not very good at them. Trust me when I tell you what other people see as bad AI is generally kicking my arsesame here... One of my first games of HoI3 I got the shit kicked out of me by France playing as Germany
I can have a great game against a bad AI :2funny:
I like strategy games - I'm just not very good at them. Trust me when I tell you what other people see as bad AI is generally kicking my arsesame here... One of my first games of HoI3 I got the shit kicked out of me by France playing as Germany
I can have a great game against a bad AI :2funny:
I recommend everyone just buy a copy of the World In Flames boardgame. The AI is just as good as HOI, and its near impossible for Hungary to take over most of Europe in 2 years. ;)
Ian, I think that goes with most of here. When I play I minor player, my goals are a lot more limited than conquering the world.
Ian, I think that goes with most of here. When I play I minor player, my goals are a lot more limited than conquering the world.
A problem for me with the HOI games, and this is just for me. Theres too many options for nations. Like what is even the point of Brazil, or Jamaica, or a tiny country in the middle of nowhere.
I mean really how many goals can you set for nations like that
Ian, I think that goes with most of here. When I play I minor player, my goals are a lot more limited than conquering the world.
A problem for me with the HOI games, and this is just for me. Theres too many options for nations. Like what is even the point of Brazil, or Jamaica, or a tiny country in the middle of nowhere.
I mean really how many goals can you set for nations like that
Just replying to myself here, because I happened across this reply, and if you think I'm being stupid, you're right. Somehow I either thought we were talking about EU, or decided I wanted to change the subject, or . . . something. :coolsmiley:
:idiot2:
The better players could become great powers starting with just about anybody, including one of those mass of 1-province states in Germany. You could look up strategies to win with lots of different countries on the wiki. Probably the Native Americans were the hardest, but I saw an AAR of a guy who defeated the foreign invaders and united the tribes.
Talking in the past tense because I'm not sure if any of that's possible with the latest patch.
Ian, I think that goes with most of here. When I play I minor player, my goals are a lot more limited than conquering the world.
A problem for me with the HOI games, and this is just for me. Theres too many options for nations. Like what is even the point of Brazil, or Jamaica, or a tiny country in the middle of nowhere.
I mean really how many goals can you set for nations like that
Just replying to myself here, because I happened across this reply, and if you think I'm being stupid, you're right. Somehow I either thought we were talking about EU, or decided I wanted to change the subject, or . . . something. :coolsmiley:
:idiot2:
The better players could become great powers starting with just about anybody, including one of those mass of 1-province states in Germany. You could look up strategies to win with lots of different countries on the wiki. Probably the Native Americans were the hardest, but I saw an AAR of a guy who defeated the foreign invaders and united the tribes.
Talking in the past tense because I'm not sure if any of that's possible with the latest patch.
Man, I would give Gus's left nut for this to come out on Memorial Day instead of D-Day....
(Sorry Gus, just keeping with tradition :) )
According to Paradox, if you're a cheapskate and buy the Cadet's Edition your soldier sprites will be replaced with Pokemon characters. Or so I've heard.
Man, I would give Gus's left nut for this to come out on Memorial Day instead of D-Day....
(Sorry Gus, just keeping with tradition :) )
I thought he lost that for the Stellaris launch.
We'll have to sacrifice the right one instead :)
According to Paradox, if you're a cheapskate and buy the Cadet's Edition your soldier sprites will be replaced with Pokemon characters. Or so I've heard.
Count me in as being a cheapskate:) I am sure eventually I will buy all the goodies, but can wait for all that stuff in a future sale....
Count me in as being a cheapskate:) I am sure eventually I will buy all the goodies, but can wait for all that stuff in a future sale....
I'm waiting to buy the game itself in a future sale. I wonder whether Paradox has shot itself in the foot releasing so close to Stellaris. I still think I'll be playing Stellaris months from now, and I only have time for one grand strategy at a time. I can't be the only one. As excited as I am for HoI4, there's just no point buying it right now.
When HOI4 comes out, I have no doubt it is going to clear everything else off my gaming plate for weeks.
Absolutely my most anticipated release in years. O0
I really hope it is good for your health's sake.....you have created very high expectations so hoping it does not let you down:)
What do you mean? I merely expect HoI4 to be the most exciting, realistic strategic simulation of WW2 ever created -- in a word, perfect.
So yeah, my expectations are entirely tempered by reality and past experience. ;)
I really hope it is good for your health's sake.....you have created very high expectations so hoping it does not let you down:)
What do you mean? I merely expect HoI4 to be the most exciting, realistic strategic simulation of WW2 ever created -- in a word, perfect.
So yeah, my expectations are entirely tempered by reality and past experience. ;)
I pre-ordered from Kinguin/G2PLAY.NET for only $28. Seems legit. What's the deal with these cheap deals? (no pun intended).
But not long now....Sandman will be very happy:)
Sounds like media embargo ends on tomorrow 6/2, not sure what exact time because of all the time zone conversions:) But not long now....Sandman will be very happy:)
Sounds like media embargo ends on tomorrow 6/2, not sure what exact time because of all the time zone conversions:) But not long now....Sandman will be very happy:)
Quill18's let's play : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3acGYgI1-stmmaOdyLR1FS1hvUIflCL
Arumba's let's play : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfm9XNvwBFG_16vR8sZcrT0hXzxoj5icJ
Actually still not certain who I'll play my first game as. What are y'all thinking?
Quill18's let's play : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3acGYgI1-stmmaOdyLR1FS1hvUIflCL
This is one of those times where sheer excitement for a new game makes all my existing library seem dull and not worth the effort...
Any review yet?
Witcher 3 is too hard for me. I'm absolutely terrible at the combat.Have you tried it on the lowest difficulty? It's a shame not to experience this game. It's unreasonably wonderful in all aspects.
It's not just the combat, though. It's just the sheer, overwhelming size of the world, the complexity of the lore, etc. etc. My mind just can't absorb it right now (esp. since I never played any of the previous Witchers).
Witcher 3 is definitely one of those games I have on my HD that I regret not playing, because I know how amazing it seems. But it's way beyond my mental capacity at the moment --
It's not just the combat, though. It's just the sheer, overwhelming size of the world, the complexity of the lore, etc. etc. My mind just can't absorb it right now (esp. since I never played any of the previous Witchers).
Witcher 3 is definitely one of those games I have on my HD that I regret not playing, because I know how amazing it seems. But it's way beyond my mental capacity at the moment --
I played Witcher 1 but you are right, there's lot of lore to absorb. I cope with it by playing in small bursts.
As far as watching Quill's HOI4 videos, I just finished the last one and I think it's too much like torture now.
The end came when while pausing the vid to absorb some detail, I clicked on the GUI to check it out and realised it wasn't the game.
Roll on Monday.
Now I am watching Quills HOI4 videos and this game which was never on my radar screen now has me thinking I need to get this as well.
I wonder what Sandman would do if they suddenly announced a 3-month delay? Might be a fun experiment:)
I wonder what Sandman would do if they suddenly announced a 3-month delay? Might be a fun experiment:)
You cruel, cruel man. I'm henceforth labeling you "Prince of Terror" in keeping with HOI's traditional character traits. :coolsmiley:
You know what always screws with my head in these games (HoI games)? Timing
I'm always gobsmacked and knocked back by the time it takes to research things. Unlike CiV where it's kind of fed to you and you see how long it takes but because it's over centuries, the time to research things doesn't phase me.
But with HoI games, looking at researching L6 Light Tanks takes 198 days!! That's over 1/2 a year! Researching Synthetic Oil takes 297 days (a year!)
And because of the time scale of HoI games, I'm very wary about how long things take to build and how long I have!
So that always throws me. Really looking forward to this though.
I wonder what Sandman would do if they suddenly announced a 3-month delay? Might be a fun experiment:)
This is one of the better videos I have seen from the last couple days.
https://youtu.be/VyCL1LIESR8
This is one of the better videos I have seen from the last couple days. Come Monday I am going to start an American campaign, it will be called "you didn't build that".The Hitler picture on the Political pop-up has it's eyes crossed. If you cannot un-see it, I deeply apologize. >:D
;D
https://youtu.be/VyCL1LIESR8
He's invading France in 1936?? ???
I hate watching videos of complicated games where the player knows what he is doing, and I haven't a clue. I get a headache and eye strain from trying to follow all the details as he speeds through them, and HOI4 uses lots of palate and texture changes to differentiate what overlay you are using. I need morphine now.
Still curious if this can reasonably simulate the Pacific War or not.... anyone see any videos showing such?
Still curious if this can reasonably simulate the Pacific War or not.... anyone see any videos showing such?
What I do know is to avoid the Paradox HOI4 forum. The amount of bitching and complaining over there is really something to behold, for a game that hasn't even released yet. I've been posting there but am going to stop now -- it's a fool's errand trying to persuade people there that (A) no, the game isn't broken and (B) to maybe, just maybe, be a little patient and give Pdox time to improve some areas of the game. It's like the forum is populated 90% by 12-year-olds. Or shut-ins with little idea of how the real world functions. Maybe both at the same time...
Agree JD -- ultimately I want to see the AI put up a decent fight, to see a meaningful Pacific War, and all the rest in the 'historically plausible' department. But I'm not expecting to get that on Monday. I think it's going to take time, patches, expansions.While I've had a lot of fun with HOI, including with v 1.0 of HOI-1, the things you're asking for have been unavailable for the last 14 years of games, expansions and patches. What has been demonstrated that this version will accomplish what they have never managed in the past?
Right now, I just am dying to get my hands on the damn thing...
I have no doubt there will be parts of the game that feel underdeveloped and in serious need of improvement. Naval warfare may well fall into that category, I don't know.
I have no doubt there will be parts of the game that feel underdeveloped and in serious need of improvement. Naval warfare may well fall into that category, I don't know.
I saw naval combat running on some of the playthrough vids and it looked pretty robust to me.
I got to thinking about the state of Stellaris at release. I really do think it was a solid release, the grumblings are design decisions or features that didn't always seem to go far enough. But perhaps Paradox (and other designers) have it right by not releasing a perfect game. By releasing Stellaris at 50% with a playable game with no major bugs, they're now able to sit back, and listen to the community give feed back on where to go from. Trying to listen to a community before a game is released is hard, as people cannot see how the different pieces fit together. Now, people can give more focused and useful feedback that Paradox can use.
I install IT for cardiology departments in hospitals. There are no 2 hospitals that do things the same way. Even hospitals that have the same parent company don't. Customers are always amazed when they ask why we haven't implemented a feature they want, and we tell them no one else has ever asked for it. Imagine how hard it is with hundreds of thousands users instead of a few hundred or a few thousand.
I've also been with the series since the original HOI, and I can't think of another game that accomplishes what HOI accomplishes: a 'pick any country' and guide your way through the most all-encompassing war in history, starting in 1936. I'd call that a pretty unique WW2 experience.
Making History does but it is very sandbox.
That's when bandwidth-a-geddon starts.
That's when bandwidth-a-geddon starts.
Not too worried about that. The Stellaris download was surprisingly small -- something like 2 GB, right? I'd be surprised is HOI4's download will be much larger -- if it's bigger than 5 GB I'll be surprised. Guess we'll soon see!
Making History does but it is very sandbox.
+1...very true! And yet being turn based it plays quite differently.
Making History does but it is very sandbox.
+1...very true! And yet being turn based it plays quite differently.
Making History is turn based?
Making History does but it is very sandbox.
+1...very true! And yet being turn based it plays quite differently.
Making History is turn based?
Yep...the original release took so long to shake out all the bugs, I have never really gone back....not sure how it plays nowadays.
^Like a Turtledove Worldwar: In the Balance mod? ^-^Of course!
Making History does but it is very sandbox.
+1...very true! And yet being turn based it plays quite differently.
Making History is turn based?
I think HOI IV will be good and stable when it releases later today, but I've decided to hold off for the moment. I'm liking Stellaris, 7DaystoDie and EU IV right now and work has me traveling a lot, so not going to put money into a game that I'm not going to have time for.
I will be following this thread though.
IGN Review:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/06/06/1558481
I got my key ;D
Still at work :(
I got my key ;D
Still at work :(
+1. No idea if my key is available but very much stuck at work... am not going to be able to get to this til after work, dinner, kiddos etc. asleep later tonight. The thought of it is going to be in the back of my mind all day.
Oh, what do these computer games do to us, eh?
Of course, the wife is working overnight so I'm stuck on toddler duty.
IGN Review:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/06/06/1558481
Hope the review got it right. Amazing (9 out of 10 score) sounds good to me.
Installing now.
IGN Review:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/06/06/1558481
Hope the review got it right. Amazing (9 out of 10 score) sounds good to me.
Agreed except for his harsh criticism of the naval invasion process...doesn't bode well for the USA war with Japan in the Pacific. He calls the naval invasion piece "borderline abominable".
Oh, what do these computer games do to us, eh?
:) Yeah, it's kinda unhealthy. But then, so are many of the best things in life (to wit: alcohol. Or donuts).
IGN Review:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/06/06/1558481
Hope the review got it right. Amazing (9 out of 10 score) sounds good to me.
Agreed except for his harsh criticism of the naval invasion process...doesn't bode well for the USA war with Japan in the Pacific. He calls the naval invasion piece "borderline abominable".
Hopefully, the problem is just the interface as he suggests.
My discounted purchase from CDKeys seems to have worked.
Installing now :)
I'm getting upset at these big games coming out with NO manual. Stellaris and not HOI IV. If I buy from someone else besides steam, is there a manualAgreed about the big bound manual for big games. I'd love some reading material to go with this.
Edit: found the wiki and, from what I gather, the Manual may come out 3-4 weeks after release? I really hate that. I love manuals and hoped companies would go the way of Matrix in creating a huge hard-bound manual (for extra $) for big releases
Anyway, wiki:
http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Hearts_of_Iron_4_Wiki
Agreed except for his harsh criticism of the naval invasion process...doesn't bode well for the USA war with Japan in the Pacific. He calls the naval invasion piece "borderline abominable".
Agreed except for his harsh criticism of the naval invasion process...doesn't bode well for the USA war with Japan in the Pacific. He calls the naval invasion piece "borderline abominable".
The reviewer missed the point. Amphib ops don't leave port immediately. You must mouse-over the invasion arrow for the amphib invasion and it tells you how many days the force must prepare for before they embark. Also, you must have naval superiority in the area. Full details how it works here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRkkqv6B7I8
OK...basic but perhaps stupid question. How do I turn on the mini-map for quick movement around the world? I am assuming there is one!!
OK...basic but perhaps stupid question. How do I turn on the mini-map for quick movement around the world? I am assuming there is one!!
Don't believe it exists
Hmm. Based your comments, there are lots of missing pieces.
I've never played any HoI game (except Darkest Hour for an hour, but I wasn't very patient).I dont have the game, but I would recommend you ignore the Paradox forums. There are loads of great people there, but there's always an outcry whenever a game is released, then numerous factions bickering with each other in every discussion. It used to be more civil (or maybe Im just nostalgic) but the divided opinion and religious devotion to its great vs it sucks has been this way since EU1.
Reading the Paradox forums I see a lot of comments from HoI vets saying it's way too easy,"dumbed down" and the AI sucks...etc, etc...
I'm gathering their forums are going to be a little more toxic (it's my opinion from the little time I've spent there), but it's making me wonder if I should hold off on the game.
I'll just sit back and watch this thread a little longer as I find this forums posters full of nothing but well thought out impressions/reviews, etc...
Maybe if it's dumbed down it might be a little easier for a novice such as myself.
Yea, so after spending a few hours glancing the Paradox forums I'm just not going to ask any specific questions. There seems to be more arguing and name calling than anything else....
I've found there are a lot of options 'hiding in plain sight', so it pays to mouse over every button, every window tag. You might miss something important you never knew was there. I keep getting pleasantly surprised by just how much is on offer here.
All this because there's no manual?
All this because there's no manual?
Yes, I know. I'm posting through necessity and I'm with you all 100% on this. It's not like they are strapped for cash and have only two people in the company that they couldn't write a manual. Why didn't they? Any official reply on this? I'm avoiding the extremism of their forums...
What I feel is missing.
1) Battle reports. You don't get any information when a battle ends informing you of casualties suffered, etc.
Agree -- we need more feedback
2) Weather reports. They've added dynamic weather on a province by province basis but there's no easy way to get a general weather picture for a theatre front.
This, and also from what I've read, weather doesn't seem to be much of a factor in combat. This was the case in HOI3 as well. I hope this will change -- weather has never gotten the attention it deserves in HOI. Also I can't tell if the day/night cycle really alters anything? I see units happily fighting throughout the night without any negative modifier I can see? Also needs fixing.
3) Trade. Seems really stripped down. There doesn't seem to be any currency anymore nor any real way to handle exports so you don't have the option of favouring trade or embargoing countries.
Linking the trade to civilian factories is an odd decision. I can't figure out if it's possible to *export* your own resources? Or if other nations ask you for trades? In general I really like the expanded emphasis on key resources (tungsten, chromium etc.) as opposed to the vague 'rare materials' of HOI3. But there's more potential to this system that hopefully will get fleshed out in time.
4) Espionage. It's missing. You can get a little bit of information regarding other nations by developing decryption tech but other than that, the map is complete FOW.
I've always been of the mind that there's not nearly enough FOW in HOI. In general, I'd love to see intelligence gathering play a far greater role, but I think average players would lose their s**t if faced with added difficulty of correctly locating and ID'ing enemy units... It also seems like some of the traditional espionage features are now folded into the diplomacy screen -- using influence to support you party or initiate a coup, etc.
5) Battle tabs. There's no quick tab option to select various battles your units might be fighting in. You have to manually scroll around the map in order to select them to see what's going on. Makes it hard to shuttle reinforcements to needed sectors.
Agree 100%
6) Fuel and supplies seem to be missing from the air war aspect entirely. Removes a lot of the granularity.
This doesn't bother me so much, as I'm very much in favor of what HOI4 has done to abstract air combat.
7) Clickable mini-map.
Never used it myself.
8) Better historical information on unit composition. In HOI 3, you could click on an infantry division and it'd give you names of actual weapons for infantry, anti-tank, support, etc so you might see Garand M1, Bazooka, BAR. Here, there's nothing. Just weapons I, weapons II.... Also, there aren't enough discrete levels of tech to develop here. In HOI 3, you might have 10 levels of a tech you could develop and you'd see gradual improvements. Your Halifax night bomber might improve from Gee, to H2S, to Oboe target locations. Here, there are only 4 levels if development so the jumps from level to level feel huge and the amount of resources it takes to upgrade your units can kill your production queue.
Funny -- another point where I like HOI4's abstraction. Particularly with infantry, in HOI3, it always bugged me that we would 'research' things like the MP40, and that when you got more info on your divisions, it would say "MP40" as the div's main 'weapon', as though the entire infantry division was kitted out with this firearm. Just struck me as absurd.
9) Missing historical vehicles. There is an option to improve a base unit such as a Spitfire if you have enough experience but rather than getting real world unit improvements such as Spitfire MkI --> MkII ---> Mk Vb --> Mk IX.
I think you can add that flavor yourself if you want to -- i.e. when you upgrade the Spitfire, you can give it the name "Spitfire MkII".
10) Diplomacy screens. There should be one screen showing the alliances and which nations are in or gravitating towards each of the three main forces, Axis, Communists, Allies. It's available on a country by country basis but not globally.
Agree.
I'm seeing the game for $25-30 so I might just pull the trigger O0
Sandman,
Looks like exports are handled automatically. If another nation needs goods, it looks like you'll export them. I'm currently exporting 2 units of tungsten to the Netherlands. I'm not sure if relationship status plays a part in this or not. I can't even remember where I saw this but I think it was on the trade screen when I hovered over one of the commodities.
I'm seeing the game for $25-30 so I might just pull the trigger O0
Where?
Looks like Imperialgames has the current cheapest price ($29.20). I've never used them (but HOI4 is really tempting me). Seems they are Canadian so maybe one of the Canadians on the forums here can comment on them.
https://isthereanydeal.com/#/page:game/info?plain=heartsofironivcadetedition
Looks like Imperialgames has the current cheapest price ($29.20). I've never used them (but HOI4 is really tempting me). Seems they are Canadian so maybe one of the Canadians on the forums here can comment on them.
https://isthereanydeal.com/#/page:game/info?plain=heartsofironivcadetedition
Never heard of Imperialgames.... ???
Imperial Games is the first online PC games retailer based in Canada. It launched at the end of 2015, backed by a team of experienced IT and video games specialists.
We aim to provide customers with the very best possible experience. No gimmicks, no bullsh*t. Our customer service and loyalty programs are all aimed towards a perfect, seamless and satisfying experience.
If you have a problem or any kind of issue concerning any aspect of our website or services, we urge you to contact us as quickly as possible so we can make it right.
https://www.imperialgames.com/en/1010/about-us
When Hearts of Iron IV and all its DLC is priced at 75% off, I will buy it.
All this because there's no manual?
Yes, I know. I'm posting through necessity and I'm with you all 100% on this. It's not like they are strapped for cash and have only two people in the company that they couldn't write a manual. Why didn't they? Any official reply on this? I'm avoiding the extremism of their forums...
Most probably because a lot of the game mechanics will be changed along the way.
Thanks for the link IC.....!
I've been reading on the Paradox forums that people are playing as minor nations and holding out well against major powers. One person claimed they were playing as Latvia and holding their own against Russia by 1944. Of course, he/she could be full of dog doo-doo, but if that's true, that's a little disheartening.
As I have said alot to people both here and in private, the vanilla HOI IV is not my ideal. But it's the future of HOI and so we are going to give it our best efforts to mod it into a game we can obsess over. It's going to take a lot of effort and all your support , but I think we will not let you guys down.
Quote from: panzeroo / BLACK ICE author, yesterday on paradox black ice mod forumAs I have said alot to people both here and in private, the vanilla HOI IV is not my ideal. But it's the future of HOI and so we are going to give it our best efforts to mod it into a game we can obsess over. It's going to take a lot of effort and all your support , but I think we will not let you guys down.
so, there's still hope for the folks waiting to dig their teeth into something 'hardcore'... until then, wait for the 'final' release of BICE for HOI3!
cheers! :D
source:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi-iv-black-ice.923395/page-12
Well this is really bizarre. I've seen so many mixed feelings and yet, with myself as one of the most critical people on the HOI series in the past, I find this version the best so far. After the rough edges have been dealt with, I think this has very great potential.
One of the main gripes is that there is an almost overwhelming deal of info you are bombarded with and there's no manual. This has to be dealt with and a wiki is not the answer. If Paradox updates the game and changes the systems then they should correct the manual, instead of withholding one until they have 'fine tuned' the game.
I think the issue is that people want accessibility but detail. That's a tall order. On one end of the scale, we have Axis & Allies with simple detail and high accessibility and playability. On the other, War in the West/East/War in the Pacific, with extreme detail deep immersion but less simplicity and long turns. Getting that sweet spot in the middle ground to satisfy grognards and more casual WW2 junkies is nigh impossible. However, with HOI4, I feel they have got closer to achieving this. HOI 4 for me is a huge improvement over HOI 2 and HOI 3.
I love this game, my only nitpick is that theres no OOB. My god that annoys me.
Seems to me the people who don't like it are the people who actually liked hoI 3 and we're expecting something complex like its predecessor (when it was clearly stated it wasn't going to be....and that's on the buyer)
I seem to recall a massive hue and cry when HOI3 was released because Stalingrad was located in the wrong place.
I simply don't buy the argument that HOI4 is less complex than its predecessor. The challenges may have shifted to new places, but the idea that HOI4 is somehow unchallenging and shallow is hogwash.
Interesting?
Yep, seeing allied AI plans is great. In the above example I'm now able to support what they are doing and have moved a lot of air power to the North African coast. I've also got my first para unit ready and have several specialist divisions ready. As soon as they land, I'm in there. This is a much better way than HOI 3, where you had to mark areas of interest and hope the AI would invade.
The biggest issue I have is time. I have the day off and played through a game month in an hour which means in total I got in 3 hours of play today, taking it from December 41 to Feb 42. The speed we saw them playing the game on the streams is total nonsense. It's like trying to force a steak dinner down your throat in twenty seconds. To enjoy the game fully, don't expect fast play. The sheer amount of detail, choices and decisions you have will take up a lot of time if you are really playing it properly and soaking it in. There an awful lot to take in.
On it's own merits this is a really deep, fun solid game. Without a manual.
IanC....just curious, in your posted screenshot, are you playing with "Historical AI Focuses" on or off?
One thing I can't figure out; how do I get a group of bombers based in California to the Phillipines? It's too far to fly....how do I set up a transport of planes?
I simply don't buy the argument that HOI4 is less complex than its predecessor. The challenges may have shifted to new places, but the idea that HOI4 is somehow unchallenging and shallow is hogwash.
The same was said of Stellaris, and it was "hogwash" there too (you're much more polite than me, I'd have said "bollocks" ;)).
Myself, I'm not dissuaded by the negative comments I've seen thus far. Stellaris is literally the only reason I haven't yet bought HoI4. I suspect I'll crack within a week or two!
I've got another question. Do any of you have any idea what the blue diamond, by some of the ships on the naval research screen, is indicative of?
Thought I read somewhere they represent capital ships...meaning ships that require escorts
Just a quick heads up for anyone interested. I have 2 mods that I found it on the workshop which have made the game at least more appealing to the eyes.
The coloured buttons mod which adds different colours to the UI
The other one, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=699686998&searchtext=terrain Better terrain view, really distinguishes the difference between mountains/forests etc all of the diff types of terrain.
Just a quick heads up for anyone interested. I have 2 mods that I found it on the workshop which have made the game at least more appealing to the eyes.
The coloured buttons mod which adds different colours to the UI
The other one, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=699686998&searchtext=terrain Better terrain view, really distinguishes the difference between mountains/forests etc all of the diff types of terrain.
In my 20+ years of gaming and reading various forums, I don't think I've ever seen so many cray babies, whiners, complainers, self-entitled spoiled brats collected in one area.
I'm none of those things, but I have a fantastic arse!
I'm none of those things, but I have a fantastic arse!
I am a fantastic arse.
... and I have no doubt that this game, while at war on multiple fronts, should never be played above speed 2 and with liberal pausing...
There's just so much going on when war breaks out I don't know how anyone could play at speed 4 or higher and take everything in. It's a huge game.
Nefaro....just wanted to say I think your avatar is classic :2funny:
I see others running CK2 and EU4 LPs at maximum speed, or nearly so, and can't fathom it. Like they're trying to rush through the game as fast as possible, at the risk of missing trends and accidentally clicking the wrong thing on the bursts of event pop-ups because they aren't reading much of them.
I just went blind :D
Only $28 here
http://www.kinguin.net/hearts-of-iron-steam
I'm right behind you. I hated HOI2/3 because of the micro-management issues. I might give this a shot.Me too.
Well shit, isn't anybody gonna hold out....
Well shit, isn't anybody gonna hold out. I need a role model here. The stream lining is what's drawing me in, the other games just had to much micromanagement. Not to mention I can't think of one grand strategy game I've stuck with, yea that's it grand strategy isn't my thing, not gonna fold.
Well shit, isn't anybody gonna hold out.
same here, +1! (...those damn nato-counter mod pictures got me!!!) ::)Well shit, isn't anybody gonna hold out.
I won't be buying it.
...until pay day. :D
...SNIP!>>>they did! here in germany, it's called 'Heart of Iron IV' and comes w/o hitler's face... just gorgeous! :smitten: ...runs and hides inside AE Editor.
I wish they would drop the HoI moniker and call it something else to better show that it's more free form.
The way production and recruiting is handled in this game is elegant.
Conducting field drills in order for your boots on the ground to gain experience prior to the war breaking out is strangely appealing.
IanC....holy crap, I missed that one entirely. Thanks for pointing it out.
Just some thoughts on the game. Debating doing a lets play, but everybody and their mother is doing videos. Opening it up to the public if they want to see me doing a campaign xD
I'm worried about the bleeding effects too...(aka...DLC's)
I'll be kinda irked if they release a ton of them AND they're all good. :knuppel2:
You can choose individual equipment, artillery, weapons, vehicles etc for each Division template, and also use captured vehicles, artillery and weapons and equipment to outfit custom divisions.
NOTE: if you want to create a new Division template, click on 'Duplicate' first. If you don't, you will change the template you edit and will update ALL divisions of that type in the field. On the plus side, this is a great way to upgrade all divisions at once, if that's what is intended.
IanC....you did it to me again. I screwed up not using the 'duplicate' button first and ended up upgrading all my divisions. Keep the tips coming....!!!
Pdox really is not doing there game a service by not having a manual...or even a quick start guide to go along with it. That is a HUGE amount of depth there that I think people will just gloss over.
Quick question....If I'm buying on steam and only play single player; Do I need the DLCs like Cadet, Colonel, etc.?
Quick question....If I'm buying on steam and only play single player; Do I need the DLCs like Cadet, Colonel, etc.?
Quick question....If I'm buying on steam and only play single player; Do I need the DLCs like Cadet, Colonel, etc.?
Cadet is the base game. Colonel contains extra cosmetics, cruiser models and that sort of thing so that is only for your own enjoyment.
the only one that in some sense affects game mechanics is the "No Army Experience for Division Design" mod.
There's some argument about whether this mod constitutes a 'cheat.'
The "trade factory capacity for imported raw materials" mechanic is pretty unintuitive and makes no real-world sense that I can discern. I guess it serves its function as a game mechanic but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way all the same.
The "trade factory capacity for imported raw materials" mechanic is pretty unintuitive and makes no real-world sense that I can discern. I guess it serves its function as a game mechanic but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way all the same.
This is the first Hearts of Iron I've ever understood. I'm currently playing as Japan and having a great time.This is absolutely 100% more inviting to me than previous games. Having played the tutorial and carried on a tad, I can say that I have a much better grasp of the game than previous iterations. I can see me firing this up for some time to continue my campaign of world domination as Turkey ;D
That is my understanding - get goods in return for "something" they want - which uses a factoryThe "trade factory capacity for imported raw materials" mechanic is pretty unintuitive and makes no real-world sense that I can discern. I guess it serves its function as a game mechanic but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way all the same.
How I see it is you import something in return for something the people of the other country want. Therefore you use one or more of your factories to produce those wanted goods. While they do this you can't use them to build for yourself. You don't give them a factory but you give them the output of that factory. The result is the same : one less factory available for you.
How I see it is you import something in return for something the people of the other country want. Therefore you use one or more of your factories to produce those wanted goods. While they do this you can't use them to build for yourself. You don't give them a factory but you give them the output of that factory. The result is the same : one less factory available for you.
How I see it is you import something in return for something the people of the other country want. Therefore you use one or more of your factories to produce those wanted goods. While they do this you can't use them to build for yourself. You don't give them a factory but you give them the output of that factory. The result is the same : one less factory available for you.
OK, I can buy that. I think the thing that throws me is the idea that not only do you lose some Civilian Factory capacity when trading for raw materials, but that the nation you're trading with *gains your* Civilian Factory capacity. In game logic, of course, since you need to have something to trade in return for the raw materials! But it just seemed odd that in some way another nation 'gains control' over your factory -- and like you say, the better way to think about it is, they gain the output of your factory, which they in turn can use to make the things that Civilian Factories in HOI4 make -- refineries, etc.
It's still a slightly convoluted mechanic, no matter how you slice it.
OK, I can buy that. I think the thing that throws me is the idea that not only do you lose some Civilian Factory capacity when trading for raw materials, but that the nation you're trading with *gains your* Civilian Factory capacity. In game logic, of course, since you need to have something to trade in return for the raw materials! But it just seemed odd that in some way another nation 'gains control' over your factory -- and like you say, the better way to think about it is, they gain the output of your factory, which they in turn can use to make the things that Civilian Factories in HOI4 make -- refineries, etc.
It's still a slightly convoluted mechanic, no matter how you slice it.
Japan is nowhere on that list - ? C'mon people -- how's about some love for the Empire of the Rising Sun?
I won't be buying.
I would love something of detail that simulates world war II
Not something like world war II or something where Japan invades Sweden at some point. There just isn't a game that simulates the whole thing in detail in a totally non abstract way.
Good in depth guide (This is not a "quick start" guide, it's more like a manual)
This game is so wild. Went as Finland, went communist, made a communist coup in Norway and used the military access to get a better line. Allied with russia, declared war with sweden and got half of my divisions wiped out. For some reason the Chinese came to help me and rescued my other divisions. Now Ive got a heap of finnish divisions sitting on the south of sweden poised to strike into germany.
This game is so wild. Went as Finland, went communist, made a communist coup in Norway and used the military access to get a better line. Allied with russia, declared war with sweden and got half of my divisions wiped out. For some reason the Chinese came to help me and rescued my other divisions. Now Ive got a heap of finnish divisions sitting on the south of sweden poised to strike into germany.
This game is so wild. Went as Finland, went communist, made a communist coup in Norway and used the military access to get a better line. Allied with russia, declared war with sweden and got half of my divisions wiped out. For some reason the Chinese came to help me and rescued my other divisions. Now Ive got a heap of finnish divisions sitting on the south of sweden poised to strike into germany.
I was about to pull the trigger until I read this. This is pure insanity. Not that Finland could invade Sweden, but that the Chinese can send a force to rescue you from across the world. This implies that logistics is almost non-existent. I won't even ask what national interest Nationalist China would have in your war with Sweden.
I am perfectly happy waiting for patches.
This game is so wild. Went as Finland, went communist, made a communist coup in Norway and used the military access to get a better line. Allied with russia, declared war with sweden and got half of my divisions wiped out. For some reason the Chinese came to help me and rescued my other divisions. Now Ive got a heap of finnish divisions sitting on the south of sweden poised to strike into germany.
I was about to pull the trigger until I read this. This is pure insanity. Not that Finland could invade Sweden, but that the Chinese can send a force to rescue you from across the world. This implies that logistics is almost non-existent. I won't even ask what national interest Nationalist China would have in your war with Sweden.
I am perfectly happy waiting for patches.
As far as ahistorical behaviour, I played as Poland last night and they have an interesting National Focus Tree which goes down either established history or wildly ahistoric lines. I placed a Fascist Sympathiser on my staff in 1936 which slowly increased the Fascist Party popularity and through various focuses sent them into a majority. A civil war broke out with the country divided. Then I joined the Axis (which was possible because some of the Focuses were to suck up to Hitler) and sent a Call To Arms to The Reich. Within a month there was an Axis united Poland. The end result seems pretty wild, but how I got there was entirely plausible based on the events.
I won't be buying.
I would love something of detail that simulates world war II
Not something like world war II or something where Japan invades Sweden at some point. There just isn't a game that simulates the whole thing in detail in a totally non abstract way.
I understand that tone is hard to read in print, so, please understand that I only mean to ask for clarification.
I am asking this of Zulu1966, but, anyone else that has an opinion, feel free to chime in. The way I read what you wrote, you would like a game that you press Play and then WWII unfolds in front of you. Historically and with the same outcomes. Why would anyone want a game that plays like that? The Germans always lose. The Americans always come in December 7, 1941. And on and on. Where is the fun in that?
So, I guess what I am asking is, what do you mean by simulation? And why would you play a game that runs almost exactly like it did in real life?
Interesting. I'll have to try that. Did you have historical AI on or off?
That is my understanding - get goods in return for "something" they want - which uses a factoryThe "trade factory capacity for imported raw materials" mechanic is pretty unintuitive and makes no real-world sense that I can discern. I guess it serves its function as a game mechanic but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way all the same.
How I see it is you import something in return for something the people of the other country want. Therefore you use one or more of your factories to produce those wanted goods. While they do this you can't use them to build for yourself. You don't give them a factory but you give them the output of that factory. The result is the same : one less factory available for you.
I'm not sure I like the mechanic of only being able to set quantities of 8 mind...but maybe it's ok - I noticed a country was defaulting on my requirement of 8 rubber - only providing 6. I had to cancel that and look for a country that was going to provide me what I needed to maximise the use (loss) of a factory.
I don't currently get Air - but I'll get there.
What I always wonder about all this "non-historical" results is under what conditions are they achieved....personally, I haven't really seen these but certainly not saying they don't happen to some people...
But...
1) What difficulty are they playing on?
2) Do they have the historical focus turned on?
3) Any chance they modded any of the data to give them an advantage?
4) Have they found some exploit they are taken advantage of?
Sometimes I feel people try to setup/play the game in a way that brings these situations into play just so they can show everyone what they did...not saying everyone. I am also not saying you should "have to play" the game in a certain way to help the AI/game, but seems some folks go out of their way in an extreme way to make it happen so they can say the game is broken. The historical vs non-historical question is always interesting......I always tend to be in the camp "anything is possible" based on chain of events and what may happen during the game, especially if you choose an earlier start date...who knows what allies you can pick up, who knows what kind of production genius you can turn out to be, who knows what kind of luck you might have, etc. Certainly I don't want to see anything extremely crazy myself, unless there is a well thought out logical reason why it was achieved, even if unlikely, but at the same time I am not just looking to see WWII unfold again.
What I always wonder about all this "non-historical" results is under what conditions are they achieved....personally, I haven't really seen these but certainly not saying they don't happen to some people...
But...
1) What difficulty are they playing on?
2) Do they have the historical focus turned on?
3) Any chance they modded any of the data to give them an advantage?
4) Have they found some exploit they are taken advantage of?
Sometimes I feel people try to setup/play the game in a way that brings these situations into play just so they can show everyone what they did...not saying everyone. I am also not saying you should "have to play" the game in a certain way to help the AI/game, but seems some folks go out of their way in an extreme way to make it happen so they can say the game is broken. The historical vs non-historical question is always interesting......I always tend to be in the camp "anything is possible" based on chain of events and what may happen during the game, especially if you choose an earlier start date...who knows what allies you can pick up, who knows what kind of production genius you can turn out to be, who knows what kind of luck you might have, etc. Certainly I don't want to see anything extremely crazy myself, unless there is a well thought out logical reason why it was achieved, even if unlikely, but at the same time I am not just looking to see WWII unfold again.
GR...I would add: 5) are they playing a major power or a minor country. Minors don't have their own specific focus choices and from what I've seen playing them tends to lead to the strange non-historical outcomes.
What version shall I buy?
In HOI3, aren't there limitations on when you can declare ware. This seems to be a restraint on when and how often you could invade other countries. It also made it harder for minor countries to invade neighbors early. Is that still in effect for HOI4.
In HOI3, aren't there limitations on when you can declare ware. This seems to be a restraint on when and how often you could invade other countries. It also made it harder for minor countries to invade neighbors early. Is that still in effect for HOI4.
Air Groups.....I have some naval bombers and fighters in Hawaii but I can't figure out how to do anything with them, i.e. set cap, patrol the surrounding zones? IanC....where are you when I need you...!
Air Groups.....I have some naval bombers and fighters in Hawaii but I can't figure out how to do anything with them, i.e. set cap, patrol the surrounding zones? IanC....where are you when I need you...!
Frankly, I don't think a traditional manual would help much. I watched the two hour tutorial video and that was probably better than any manual. When you start getting into really complex games like this or Command, I would rather have an encyclopedia that lets me look up specific functions and buttons. Too many times half the manual is taken up with useless background info and fluff. Just give me an index and a definition of buttons. Add a detailed video and I am done.
Frankly, I don't think a traditional manual would help much. I watched the two hour tutorial video and that was probably better than any manual. When you start getting into really complex games like this or Command, I would rather have an encyclopedia that lets me look up specific functions and buttons. Too many times half the manual is taken up with useless background info and fluff. Just give me an index and a definition of buttons. Add a detailed video and I am done.
Nah, I disagree. I would rather look up the index of a manual and find instantly that on page 64 I can read how to conduct air ops rather than searching for a video and then sitting through and hour or more of it to work out the same thing. Having said that, given the lack of a manual and an incomplete wiki, videos are the next best thing.
If a manual is out of date when the game is published (there is no reason why it should be) update it and release it with the next patch.
Does no one actually read entire posts here?
Does no one actually read entire posts here?
Today, I decided to just take ownership of a small country and sit back to see how the world unfolded....one thing I noticed is that it is very difficult to really get a good picture on what else is happening. USA entered the war in late '42 and a lot of casualties were happening with the country's in the war, but because of FOW and lack of intel, really could not get a good picture on what big events were happening. I completely understand that some countries don't have much intel, but would still like a way to understand what's happening, besides the world conflict/war list screen. Would love to know where the big battles are happening, why are the Italians enduring 1.5 million in casualties, why did certain countries decide to go to war?, etc.
Still really enjoying, but would like to see a little more information made available...
Today, I decided to just take ownership of a small country and sit back to see how the world unfolded....one thing I noticed is that it is very difficult to really get a good picture on what else is happening. USA entered the war in late '42 and a lot of casualties were happening with the country's in the war, but because of FOW and lack of intel, really could not get a good picture on what big events were happening. I completely understand that some countries don't have much intel, but would still like a way to understand what's happening, besides the world conflict/war list screen. Would love to know where the big battles are happening, why are the Italians enduring 1.5 million in casualties, why did certain countries decide to go to war?, etc.
Still really enjoying, but would like to see a little more information made available...
Did you use spectate mode? I was curious how it worked.
Open the console. Type in Observe (spectate). Now you can look at any country and see what it is doing. AI runs everything. Got that from watching youtube.
I think a manual for Pdox games would be of limited utility as they tend to go through a lot of changes with the release of each patch or DLC addition.
I remember trying to learn HOI III. I came to it very late in the day when all the DLC had already been released. This led to a lot of confusion as there were a lot of "how to" guides and videos out there (both offical and 3rd party) and a lot of them were released earlier in the game's development cycle and much of the information presented in them was no longer correct.
Having said that, HOI IV definitely needs more tutorials or an updatable, context sensitive help system so that you could click on a button and be taken to a series of documents and videos that explain in detail all the functionality and options available for the subsystem you're looking at.
Open the console. Type in Observe (spectate). Now you can look at any country and see what it is doing. AI runs everything. Got that from watching youtube.
Thanks, will try that later tonight when I can...
Open the console. Type in Observe (spectate). Now you can look at any country and see what it is doing. AI runs everything. Got that from watching youtube.
Thanks, will try that later tonight when I can...
Very cool....seems to work, although limited to seeing a single country at a time, unless I am missing the command. Would kind of like to see the entire world unmasked at once to see everything going on, are you aware if that is possible.?
Okay, here's a question about factories. What limits me from building military factories, other than the number of slots available? I see in the wiki it costs 3600. But 3600 of what?
Now I see that civilian factories are needed to build military factories. But again, other than filling up available factory slots, is there any limitation to maxing out the number of military factories asap?
Do you guys think it would be a good idea to do a playthough as the UK. I am debating doing one as the major powers but cant really decide. My partner wants me to go as ireland.
Yeah that will go well with the 5 people fit for military service
Does no one actually read entire posts here?
Do you guys think it would be a good idea to do a playthough as the UK. I am debating doing one as the major powers but cant really decide. My partner wants me to go as ireland.
Yeah that will go well with the 5 people fit for military service
Okay, here's a question about factories. What limits me from building military factories, other than the number of slots available? I see in the wiki it costs 3600. But 3600 of what?
Now I see that civilian factories are needed to build military factories. But again, other than filling up available factory slots, is there any limitation to maxing out the number of military factories asap?
Building a military factory costs 3600 construction points, which are created by assigning a number of civilian factories to that particular construction. Civilian factories produce consumer goods or construction points, or can be used for trade. Base output is 5 (per day), ie. one civilian factory is going to take 720 days to build one military factory.
How do I update my carrier fighters? I researched the 1939 P40 Warhawk which the research screen indicates is for carriers, it has the carrier icon on it. But now that it is available to build it doesn't show the carrier icon and the ones I build can't be put on carriers. My carriers still have the old Grumman FF Fifi's. A bug or, more likely, something I missed or did wrong?I think you should click the carrier icon (on the fighters research box) to start researching this. Only after you researched it this fighter will become available in the carrier variant.
Okay, here's another air war question that I hope one of you can answer. I'm playing as the U.S. and it's 1939 and I would like to send some fighters to the Philippines and am at a complete loss as to how that is accomplished. The game won't let me build a new air wing at the Philippine air base. My P-40's don't have the range to transfer from Guam (even if the game would let me do that) and I can't figure out a way to disassemble and send them by sea (if that's possible). I have no problem sending army units to the Philippines and history tells us that MacArthur had an air-force in place for the Japanese to practice bombing on. Why can't I send/construct an air-force in the Philippines?
How do I update my carrier fighters? I researched the 1939 P40 Warhawk which the research screen indicates is for carriers, it has the carrier icon on it. But now that it is available to build it doesn't show the carrier icon and the ones I build can't be put on carriers. My carriers still have the old Grumman FF Fifi's. A bug or, more likely, something I missed or did wrong?I think you should click the carrier icon (on the fighters research box) to start researching this. Only after you researched it this fighter will become available in the carrier variant.
Okay, here's another air war question that I hope one of you can answer. I'm playing as the U.S. and it's 1939 and I would like to send some fighters to the Philippines and am at a complete loss as to how that is accomplished. The game won't let me build a new air wing at the Philippine air base. My P-40's don't have the range to transfer from Guam (even if the game would let me do that) and I can't figure out a way to disassemble and send them by sea (if that's possible). I have no problem sending army units to the Philippines and history tells us that MacArthur had an air-force in place for the Japanese to practice bombing on. Why can't I send/construct an air-force in the Philippines?
Okay, here's another air war question that I hope one of you can answer. I'm playing as the U.S. and it's 1939 and I would like to send some fighters to the Philippines and am at a complete loss as to how that is accomplished. The game won't let me build a new air wing at the Philippine air base. My P-40's don't have the range to transfer from Guam (even if the game would let me do that) and I can't figure out a way to disassemble and send them by sea (if that's possible). I have no problem sending army units to the Philippines and history tells us that MacArthur had an air-force in place for the Japanese to practice bombing on. Why can't I send/construct an air-force in the Philippines?
Do you have air units in the reserve ? You can't build a new air wing unless you have something to put in there.
I don't know if this will work but try and disband (part of) an existing air wing. This will put those planes in to the reserve. Now see if you can create a new air wing with your new reserve units.
This works inside your own country but could also work if you have military access to the Philippines.
If this doesn't work I have no idea what might work ... What does the manual say >:D ?
I'm able create an air wing in the Phils and add to it from reserves. Not sure why, I only tried it in response to your post, as I had paid my respects and vamoosed in January 1936.
It's the end of '41, I just went to war on pretty much the historical timetable. I have hundreds of fighters in Hawaii and have built up my naval bases in the Cent Pac a bit. Not sure if any of that has anything at all to do with why it is letting me add new wings in the Phils, but the planes are definitely from reserves. Heck, who knows?
How do I update my carrier fighters? I researched the 1939 P40 Warhawk which the research screen indicates is for carriers, it has the carrier icon on it. But now that it is available to build it doesn't show the carrier icon and the ones I build can't be put on carriers. My carriers still have the old Grumman FF Fifi's. A bug or, more likely, something I missed or did wrong?I think you should click the carrier icon (on the fighters research box) to start researching this. Only after you researched it this fighter will become available in the carrier variant.
Thanks PD....I didn't realize I had to research the carrier aspect separately....I thought the icon meant it included carrier use but I was wrong.
Ugh. For the life of me, I cannot figure out this battle plan thing. I am Germany and me and Poland are defensive allies and the Soviet Union has invaded Poland and I want to come to the aid of my allies. I have five armies and I set a frontline with all five of them along the German-Polish border. Then, I set an offensive line in Poland and I have all of the colorful arrows showing the attack paths of the armies. I click on the button to execute the plan and nothing. The Armies do not disperse to cover the initial front line - they just stay in one group in one province and they do not advance along their route of attack. I do not know what to do to get them moving.
Trey
Played as Poland....Germany invaded....Polish communists split and attacked me....I lasted 12 days.
I feel so overwhelmed in this game :tickedoff:
Ugh. For the life of me, I cannot figure out this battle plan thing. I am Germany and me and Poland are defensive allies and the Soviet Union has invaded Poland and I want to come to the aid of my allies. I have five armies and I set a frontline with all five of them along the German-Polish border. Then, I set an offensive line in Poland and I have all of the colorful arrows showing the attack paths of the armies. I click on the button to execute the plan and nothing. The Armies do not disperse to cover the initial front line - they just stay in one group in one province and they do not advance along their route of attack. I do not know what to do to get them moving.
Trey
If I understand this correctly you have 5 armies and created one frontline but you need a frontline for each army. In your case this means you should create five battle plans (or merge some armies). When you look at the frontline you can see how many divisions are attached to it (a green V should appear to show they are ready and the plan is not too risky).
I have five front lines and five offensive lines for each of my armies and the commanders all have green check marks. My planning bonus is maxed at 50%. The armies sit all grouped up in a single province on their part of the front line and do not disperse to cover the entire line. The only thing I can think of is that I am not at war with Poland but they are my ally. Can I not send troops into Poland to help them defend against the Soviets?
Trey
I have five front lines and five offensive lines for each of my armies and the commanders all have green check marks. My planning bonus is maxed at 50%. The armies sit all grouped up in a single province on their part of the front line and do not disperse to cover the entire line. The only thing I can think of is that I am not at war with Poland but they are my ally. Can I not send troops into Poland to help them defend against the Soviets?
Trey
Rt-click on Poland and check your diplomatic options. You may see one called "Send Volunteers" that's grayed-out. I'm pretty sure you have to belong to the same faction, or at least share the same ideology, before you can do that. World Tension may be a barrier as well.
I have five front lines and five offensive lines for each of my armies and the commanders all have green check marks. My planning bonus is maxed at 50%. The armies sit all grouped up in a single province on their part of the front line and do not disperse to cover the entire line. The only thing I can think of is that I am not at war with Poland but they are my ally. Can I not send troops into Poland to help them defend against the Soviets?
Trey
Rt-click on Poland and check your diplomatic options. You may see one called "Send Volunteers" that's grayed-out. I'm pretty sure you have to belong to the same faction, or at least share the same ideology, before you can do that. World Tension may be a barrier as well.
In diplomacy there should be an option available when your allies are at war : 'join wars'.
The 'send volunteers' diplomatic option only allows you to send a very limited number of divisions to their aid and should only be available to non allied countries.
PS : You don't need to give another country access to your own territory if you are both at war with a third country.
I took a look at this on the diplomacy screen. The 'Join Wars' option is greyed out with the mouse over note 'We participate in all of Poland's War already'. My armies sit on my border with their animated arrows nicely pointing towards the Polish-Soviet border and do nothing.
Trey
I have five front lines and five offensive lines for each of my armies and the commanders all have green check marks. My planning bonus is maxed at 50%. The armies sit all grouped up in a single province on their part of the front line and do not disperse to cover the entire line. The only thing I can think of is that I am not at war with Poland but they are my ally. Can I not send troops into Poland to help them defend against the Soviets?
TreyUgh. For the life of me, I cannot figure out this battle plan thing. I am Germany and me and Poland are defensive allies and the Soviet Union has invaded Poland and I want to come to the aid of my allies. I have five armies and I set a frontline with all five of them along the German-Polish border. Then, I set an offensive line in Poland and I have all of the colorful arrows showing the attack paths of the armies. I click on the button to execute the plan and nothing. The Armies do not disperse to cover the initial front line - they just stay in one group in one province and they do not advance along their route of attack. I do not know what to do to get them moving.
Trey
If I understand this correctly you have 5 armies and created one frontline but you need a frontline for each army. In your case this means you should create five battle plans (or merge some armies). When you look at the frontline you can see how many divisions are attached to it (a green V should appear to show they are ready and the plan is not too risky).
OK so this trade thing seems to be broken on the main game.
I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm sure there are a few bugs here and there but I don't find the game to be wacky need anything or prematurely released. You can't wait until all the bugs are out to release something because it would never be released in that case.
You posted several times that you don't like the game and I understand ...but what specifically are you having problems with that you think shows the game is not finished? Maybe someone here to help it's mechanical or operator error?
I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm sure there are a few bugs here and there but I don't find the game to be wacky need anything or prematurely released. You can't wait until all the bugs are out to release something because it would never be released in that case.
You posted several times that you don't like the game and I understand ...but what specifically are you having problems with that you think shows the game is not finished? Maybe someone here to help it's mechanical or operator error?
I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm sure there are a few bugs here and there but I don't find the game to be wacky need anything or prematurely released. You can't wait until all the bugs are out to release something because it would never be released in that case.
You posted several times that you don't like the game and I understand ...but what specifically are you having problems with that you think shows the game is not finished? Maybe someone here to help it's mechanical or operator error?
Don't think I ever said I don't like the game :o...quite the opposite. I think it's pretty amazing, really, but I'm sure some of it (maybe more than I'm willing to admit) is my lack of experience in this genre. I'll just keep plodding along.
I agree, IanC and Pete's video's are awesome and a great help.
I think you answer is somewhere in this thread. The same problem was mentioned.
Its got to do with Carrier Ops research not being unlocked yet.
I didn't make any of the videos I posted.
I think you answer is somewhere in this thread. The same problem was mentioned.
Its got to do with Carrier Ops research not being unlocked yet.
Thanks, but I couldn't find it buried in 36 pages of posts. :'( Researching carrier ops makes no sense because you start the 1936 campaign with carriers that have fighters on them. I could be wrong though. I just don't understand why I can't build the upgraded P40's after having researched the P40's and their carrier variant. The problem isn't getting them onto the carriers, the problem is finding out how to get them to show up as a build option.
I think you answer is somewhere in this thread. The same problem was mentioned.
Its got to do with Carrier Ops research not being unlocked yet.
Thanks, but I couldn't find it buried in 36 pages of posts. :'( Researching carrier ops makes no sense because you start the 1936 campaign with carriers that have fighters on them. I could be wrong though. I just don't understand why I can't build the upgraded P40's after having researched the P40's and their carrier variant. The problem isn't getting them onto the carriers, the problem is finding out how to get them to show up as a build option.
Ah ok, well I don't have the game so that's all the input I could give. ;)
Just to mention: thanks, but there might be a small misunderstanding - I didn't make any of the videos I posted. Glad to help though.
Another tip:
Air Casualties Too High?
Air missions are set to No Retreat, by default and Day & Night.
- No Retreat - Air units keep flying missions no matter the casualties. This is a highly aggressive mode only used when absolutely necessary to achieve Air Superiority for strategic objectives. Casualties are huge.
- Low Intensity - which sets the casualty cap at 50%
- Normal Operations - which sets the cap at 25%.
Also, if you fly night missions and/or in bad weather, you also suffer losses through accidents.
Night missions are somewhat safer, but with penalties. Some Military Staff might offset the night bombing penalties by significant amounts.
Why does it feel like they'll DLC this game into the ground? :tickedoff:
I think you answer is somewhere in this thread. The same problem was mentioned.
Its got to do with Carrier Ops research not being unlocked yet.
Thanks, but I couldn't find it buried in 36 pages of posts. :'( Researching carrier ops makes no sense because you start the 1936 campaign with carriers that have fighters on them. I could be wrong though. I just don't understand why I can't build the upgraded P40's after having researched the P40's and their carrier variant. The problem isn't getting them onto the carriers, the problem is finding out how to get them to show up as a build option.
Ah ok, well I don't have the game so that's all the input I could give. ;)
Got an answer on the Steam forums. Once you research the P40 and then its carrier variant, the carrier variant is called a Grumman F3F....that's why I couldn't find it in the construction tree, I was looking for a P40 with the carrier icon.
Now if say in theory the P40 naval model won the selection and was designated as F3F by the Navy then it should be Curtiss F3F.
This Sabaton DLC is already included with the pre-order packages.
Why does it feel like they'll DLC this game into the ground? :tickedoff:
Because that's their business model and it works exceptionally well. Paradox do DLC the correct way in my opinion.
Why does it feel like they'll DLC this game into the ground? :tickedoff:
Because that's their business model and it works exceptionally well. Paradox do DLC the correct way in my opinion.
Exactly....why anybody would seem surprised by this based on other Paradox games and it likely had been mentioned a ton of times in this thread alone, is beyond me. I like the model as well. Buy what you want......or don't buy anything....your call.
Why does it feel like they'll DLC this game into the ground? :tickedoff:
Because that's their business model and it works exceptionally well. Paradox do DLC the correct way in my opinion.
Exactly....why anybody would seem surprised by this based on other Paradox games and it likely had been mentioned a ton of times in this thread alone, is beyond me. I like the model as well. Buy what you want......or don't buy anything....your call.
This is my second Paradox game, so I'm not familiar with their selling tactics.
I started on the slowest speed, but mid-game with Afghanistan was a little boring so I sped up to 3-normal speed. When the war in Iran kicked off, I dropped back to slow. I often pause the game to set battle plans, manage production, or respond to alert icons or popups. I play all of Paradox's grand strategy games like they're turned based, pausing to make decisions, develop strategies, or just let my imagination read more into events in the game. I think if I'd just played on fast I would have missed some of the political flavor of my Afghan play through.
My wife, on the other hand, plays Stellaris and Crusader Kings II on fast. Drives me crazy to watch her play that fast. But, she is a much better multitasker than I am. We'd play multiplayer more on those two games if we could just agree on the same speed. But normal is too fast for me and too slow for her!
lol - what speed do you people play at? Am I exclusively in the camp of mostly playing at the lowest speed?
lol - what speed do you people play at? Am I exclusively in the camp of mostly playing at the lowest speed?
lol - I simply cannot keep up on any other speed. I admit I do very occasionally fast forward but it's normally a slow game for me!
lol - I simply cannot keep up on any other speed. I admit I do very occasionally fast forward but it's normally a slow game for me!
"In War: 1-2 . In Defeat: 1-2. In Victory: 2-3. In Peace: 2-5." - (not) Winston Churchill :)
lol - I simply cannot keep up on any other speed. I admit I do very occasionally fast forward but it's normally a slow game for me!
"In War: 1-2 . In Defeat: 1-2. In Victory: 2-3. In Peace: 2-5." - (not) Winston Churchill :)
(I smoked) 2 joints in morning, 2 at night...I smoked 2 joints in times of peace and 2 at war....
-Sublime
Crap...missed that
anyone else getting missing tooltips? lower right hand corner has options for several things and it did give a tooltip when you hovered over them. now all they do is show the shortcut key, no tooltip.
anyone else getting missing tooltips? lower right hand corner has options for several things and it did give a tooltip when you hovered over them. now all they do is show the shortcut key, no tooltip.
Mine still shows tooltips in that area of the screen...
Ok. So what's a nice obscure country to start with?
I am hugely impressed with this game, after having some post-release doubts. To me, they just did the right things to the right areas without altering the core formula too much. They made some things more realistic and others more abstract. For instance, they made production more realistic with the players running production lines for various equipment and you have troops in a basic training pipeline. They do it skillfully and I find it a massive improvement over previous iterations. In other areas, like the naval and air war, they abstracted it more. To me, its simpler and more realistic.
The only problem I am having at the moment is the AI. It doesn't do a good job of judging what fronts need what troops. Playing as the USSR, Germany (through mid-41 so far) is not garrisoning the border with me. While I have no doubt they will unleash all hell upon me if I stab them in the back, I will be most of the way to Berlin before they can likely stop me. It is disappointing to a degree, but in the long run I am not worried. It will be patched up and the AI will give me a challenge at some point and probably sooner rather than later.
anyone else getting missing tooltips? lower right hand corner has options for several things and it did give a tooltip when you hovered over them. now all they do is show the shortcut key, no tooltip.
Mine still shows tooltips in that area of the screen...
hmm okay. will check all my settings again. thought their last patch messed things up.
anyone else getting missing tooltips? lower right hand corner has options for several things and it did give a tooltip when you hovered over them. now all they do is show the shortcut key, no tooltip.
Mine still shows tooltips in that area of the screen...
hmm okay. will check all my settings again. thought their last patch messed things up.
figured it out. the UI scaling was set to 1.1. I changed it back to 1.0 and the tooltips reappeared.
So I can't use my captured provinces until a peace conference? Looks like still a long way to go. Must take Japan Home Islands after liberating China? I don't have a navy and air force. I guess I'm stuck with 2 provinces for the rest of the war and Nationalist China and USSR would probably get the most war score.
So the six million dollar question is, WTF....how were the Russians able to violate my borders and literally walk across Germany to confront the French/Dutch?
Access to allied territory
One of the biggest talked about issue has been the fact that as long as you fight the same enemy you automatically gain military access, even from other factions. This was kind of a bandaid for an old issue, and we never liked it either... so we have been listening and working on a solution. The way things work now is that you will be requiring military access as expected and the game will also alert you if you end up in a position where you are trying to move into occupied area you don't have access to (as this for democracies would liberate those nations you will need to ask for permissions, which ai will give you). We are still testing our solution, so there might be further changes still.
^condolences on the wedding. ;)
^condolences on the wedding. ;)
I knew the enemy fleet with 6 carriers was around that area and waded in. I didn't know the exact force though. I didn't take the weather and number of aircraft into account for my naval air ops and I lost all 7 carriers and 2 Battleships. I was counting on my naval air power but the weather was crap and there were 'too many' aircraft present resulting in some kind of negative modifier. Those 9 Japanese BB's closed in as well as 80 DD's with torpedo attacks and that was it. It's going to take a good 3+ years at least to replace those carriers and BB's. All because I knew a major Japanese fleet was present in that area and I wanted a decisive outcome. I got one. It was a terrible opportunistic decision resulting in a catastrophe. I was fixated on taking out those 6 CV's.
I'm on Ironman, which I've played for several days from 1936 onwards. I'm undecided whether to continue and tough it out or restart. Staying with it would be interesting but I can't really rationalise the ineptitude of my naval skill. Chester Nimitz wouldn't have made such a mistake. Until the patch I guess I'm just 'training' anyway.
I've found Ironman mode is a great way to play as it really makes the game quite dramatic and deep. You screw up. It's permanent. You win, and it's a big deal.
I wasn't marveling at the number of CVs so much as Ian's decision to park his task force right off the coast of Japan in 1942! The man has balls.
I knew the enemy fleet with 6 carriers was around that area and waded in. I didn't know the exact force though. I didn't take the weather and number of aircraft into account for my naval air ops and I lost all 7 carriers and 2 Battleships. I was counting on my naval air power but the weather was crap and there were 'too many' aircraft present resulting in some kind of negative modifier. Those 9 Japanese BB's closed in as well as 80 DD's with torpedo attacks and that was it. It's going to take a good 3+ years at least to replace those carriers and BB's. All because I knew a major Japanese fleet was present in that area and I wanted a decisive outcome. I got one. It was a terrible opportunistic decision resulting in a catastrophe. I was fixated on taking out those 6 CV's.
I'm on Ironman, which I've played for several days from 1936 onwards. I'm undecided whether to continue and tough it out or restart. Staying with it would be interesting but I can't really rationalise the ineptitude of my naval skill. Chester Nimitz wouldn't have made such a mistake. Until the patch I guess I'm just 'training' anyway.
I've found Ironman mode is a great way to play as it really makes the game quite dramatic and deep. You screw up. It's permanent. You win, and it's a big deal.
I just parked my 7 carriers in a blocking position south of Midway and waited for them to come after me. Finally, they did - with ONE carrier (Hiryu). The expected happened.
To Sandman: it's not that hard to have 7 or even more carriers active by early '42. You can build Yorktown-class carriers from '36 and if you really put your back into building them and their air complements, I'm sure you could have 10 or more by that time.
Nimitz wouldn't have made such a mistake... but Halsey might have ;) (A cheap shot, admittedly. Halsey was a great commander.)Halsey was right to argue against taking on Peleliu. Nimitz won the argument, but a lot of good men died. In terms of strategy Halsey was probably right in hindsight.
Lost all 7 carriers? Oh the humanity!
Seriously that is a huge bummer. I'm not sure I'd have the heart (ha) to carry on after such a catastrophe. Sign the instruments of surrender and start again. 8)
Nimitz wouldn't have made such a mistake... but Halsey might have ;) (A cheap shot, admittedly. Halsey was a great commander.)
@glen -- I wasn't marveling at the number of CVs so much as Ian's decision to park his task force right off the coast of Japan in 1942! The man has balls.
I saw this on Reddit and found it helpful as a beginner to HOI overall. I had played HOI3 a little but was completely overwhelmed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/4ndo3r/over_200_tips_for_new_players/
focus = {
id = GER_weserubung
icon = GFX_goal_generic_more_territorial_claims
prerequisite = { focus = GER_danzig_or_war }
mutually_exclusive = { focus = GER_denmark_friend }
will_lead_to_war_with = DEN
will_lead_to_war_with = NOR
bypass = {
AND = {
OR = {
DEN = {
is_in_faction_with = GER
NOT = { country_exists = DEN }
}
}
}
}
available = {
POL = {
NOT = { controls_state = 85 }
NOT = { controls_state = 10 }
}
OR = {
has_war_with = ENG
NOT = {country_exists = ENG}
}
}
x = 17
y = 7
cost = 10
ai_will_do = {
factor = 10
modifier = {
factor = 0
date < 1939.1.1
}
}
completion_reward = {
if = {
limit = {
NOT = { DEN = { is_in_faction_with = GER } }
country_exists = DEN
}
create_wargoal = {
type = take_state_focus
target = DEN
generator = { 37 }
}
}
if = {
limit = {
NOT = { NOR = { is_in_faction_with = GER } }
country_exists = NOR
}
create_wargoal = {
type = take_state_focus
target = NOR
generator = { 110 }
}
}
add_tech_bonus = {
name = tp_bonus
bonus = 0.5
ahead_reduction = 1
uses = 1
technology = transport
technology = landing_craft
technology = tank_landing_craft
}
hidden_effect = {
news_event = { hours = 6 id = news.233 }
}
}
}
Great tips. after reading this it's possible to set rally points for freshly deployed units:
How To have new units deploy to a custom rally point
1. Create or designate a non-combat group and select the Fallback Line tool.
Anyone else find it strange that RPS *still* hasn't reviewed HOI4?
(I know RPS isn't universally beloved around here -- but it's a site I generally enjoy. I find the complete radio silence on HOI4 baffling...)
I'd like to discuss deeper aspects of the game in specific areas but don't want to do it on the official forum and if I do it on this thread it will get endlessly off-topic. Are there any intelligent non threadlocking user-friendly forums for HOI elsewhere?
I'd like to discuss deeper aspects of the game in specific areas but don't want to do it on the official forum and if I do it on this thread it will get endlessly off-topic. Are there any intelligent non threadlocking user-friendly forums for HOI elsewhere?
I'd like to discuss deeper aspects of the game in specific areas but don't want to do it on the official forum and if I do it on this thread it will get endlessly off-topic. Are there any intelligent non threadlocking user-friendly forums for HOI elsewhere?
give us some credit! i think you can discuss things here. this topic is very general though. not sure how the mods would react if you made a thread discussing a specific aspect such as military, economy, research etc...
Anyone else find it strange that RPS *still* hasn't reviewed HOI4?
(I know RPS isn't universally beloved around here -- but it's a site I generally enjoy. I find the complete radio silence on HOI4 baffling...)
Nobody at RPS has a fucking clue how to play this kind of game. Frankly I'm grateful that they've ignored it.
Nobody at RPS has a fucking clue how to play this kind of game. Frankly I'm grateful that they've ignored it.
Tim Stone?
Every time I play this game I learn literally an ecyclopedia of new things.
Played Italy trying to go Fascist but befriending everyone to try and stay out of the war while building infrastructure. My goal was to let Britain and France slog it out with the German and then swoop in to take over the exhausted combatants on both sides. Of course what happened was radically different. I didnt enter combat until 1944 by which point Britains armies were massive had invaded Germany and taken Berlin, the US entered the war and reinforced the Suez canal, France took over Spain choking off the Med and my 2000 fighters were swatted out of the sky by a combined force of 5K plus allied onslaught. So being passive only gets you put over the barrel at a later date. However I watched a lot more videos and learn so much more each time that the lack of an ecylopedic manual for this game is a criminal offense.
Also I would like to see something more interactive than videos. In this day it should be possible to have a game file from a knowledgeable player that we can download and play on our computers ourselves. They could put tool tips on where major decisions were taken an audio track of the players thoughts and strategies. If this was playable you could stop it at some point and play onward from that position, check out what other events are happening under the hood for supply/production etc. and be able to use the interface! Watching videos is only superficially helpful in that you are not interacting with the game. I just found out how to properly adjust battle plans and how to set up fleet engagements after watch hours of videos. A playable game file with explanatory tool tips would have solved that issue for me long ago.
Con
I'm now in a stupid situation. My main army is in Japan but we are not at peace. Since I lost control of coastal provinces and naval assets due to the peace treaty, I can't bring them home.
And how do I disable the window with the dog?
give us some credit! i think you can discuss things here.
Definitely keep the conversations here at Grogheads. Its ok to create other threads. We won't mod them. If there are enough threads and enough interest, we could create a subforum for the game.
Appreciate everything your contributing to the HoI 4 communication here Ian. It's helping this noobie out immensely.
New Beta patch is up:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-1-1-0-beta-patch.951818/
So here I was trying to conquer Sinkiang...and I didn't realize that a country can join a faction after it is at war.
They declared to Comintern...and that was that...I was not ready to poke the Bear at that point and they marched right through me.
ON to the next game with lessons learned.
Can any recommend a site that can help with OoB's/division structure for the major powers?
I want to mess around with the Division Designer this weekend and my knowledge of OoB's is weak, at best.
Thanks
Can any recommend a site that can help with OoB's/division structure for the major powers?
I want to mess around with the Division Designer this weekend and my knowledge of OoB's is weak, at best.
Thanks
Can any recommend a site that can help with OoB's/division structure for the major powers?
I want to mess around with the Division Designer this weekend and my knowledge of OoB's is weak, at best.
Thanks
This might be what you're looking for:
http://niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm
examples:
USA
http://niehorster.org/013_usa/_41_usarmy/_41_us-army.htm
UK
http://niehorster.org/017_britain/__uk.htm
France
http://niehorster.org/020_france/__france.htm
Germany
http://niehorster.org/011_germany/__ge_index.htm
Italy
http://niehorster.org/019_italy/__italy.htm
Japan
http://niehorster.org/014_japan/__ighq.htm
USSR
http://niehorster.org/012_ussr/__stavka.htm
Can any recommend a site that can help with OoB's/division structure for the major powers?
I want to mess around with the Division Designer this weekend and my knowledge of OoB's is weak, at best.
Thanks
This might be what you're looking for:
http://niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm
examples:
USA
http://niehorster.org/013_usa/_41_usarmy/_41_us-army.htm
UK
http://niehorster.org/017_britain/__uk.htm
France
http://niehorster.org/020_france/__france.htm
Germany
http://niehorster.org/011_germany/__ge_index.htm
Italy
http://niehorster.org/019_italy/__italy.htm
Japan
http://niehorster.org/014_japan/__ighq.htm
USSR
http://niehorster.org/012_ussr/__stavka.htm
Wow. Those links give me serious wood.
Wow. Those links give me serious wood.
Can any recommend a site that can help with OoB's/division structure for the major powers?
I want to mess around with the Division Designer this weekend and my knowledge of OoB's is weak, at best.
Thanks
This might be what you're looking for:
http://niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm
examples:
USA
http://niehorster.org/013_usa/_41_usarmy/_41_us-army.htm
UK
http://niehorster.org/017_britain/__uk.htm
France
http://niehorster.org/020_france/__france.htm
Germany
http://niehorster.org/011_germany/__ge_index.htm
Italy
http://niehorster.org/019_italy/__italy.htm
Japan
http://niehorster.org/014_japan/__ighq.htm
USSR
http://niehorster.org/012_ussr/__stavka.htm
Wow. Those links give me serious wood.
Any thoughts on the new beta ? Paradox forums mention it contains bugs, but that is the paradox forum ...
Any thoughts on the new beta ? Paradox forums mention it contains bugs, but that is the paradox forum ...
It probably does have bugs, but it's fixed the worst in my opinion. My naval bombers and CAS now hit naval transports and the hideous military access bug is gone.
The Paradox Forums for HOI are generally not a place of rational, reasoned communication.
Any thoughts on the new beta ? Paradox forums mention it contains bugs, but that is the paradox forum ...
I find it extremely difficult to manage multi level (land, air, sea) wars on multiple fronts. It is very easy to get overwhelmed.
I find it extremely difficult to manage multi level (land, air, sea) wars on multiple fronts. It is very easy to get overwhelmed.
5. The difficulty in getting information on the progress of air and naval operations.
I find it extremely difficult to manage multi level (land, air, sea) wars on multiple fronts. It is very easy to get overwhelmed.
I find it extremely difficult to manage multi level (land, air, sea) wars on multiple fronts. It is very easy to get overwhelmed.
I find it extremely difficult to manage multi level (land, air, sea) wars on multiple fronts. It is very easy to get overwhelmed.
I also sometimes find myself becoming fixated on one particular operation/battle and losing sight elsewhere.
.
A couple of questions....
1. How do you all manage conquered territory? When I get a message that there is resistance to occupation, I typically bring a division or two into that sector. Recently, I designed a new division with an MP brigade attached. Isn't there some kind of garrison division I can build? I know there is a garrison order for armies, but I hate to utilize a veteran army for this duty.
2. How do you stop the sabotage of factories? The obvious solution is putting more troops into garrison. Anything else that can be done?
I'm definitely frustrated by the amphibious invasion spam. Every few weeks a few allied divisions will land in northern France or Germany only to quickly be pushed back into the water. It gets pretty irritating, and even more so since there is no obvious message when forces land. I know there is a little gray message on the right, but it's very hard to notice. I shouldn't have to constantly check my coastline for incursions. I suppose I'll begin fortifying Normandy, just in case the allies get their act together and try something more organized.
I'm also frustrated by the air attrition issue. I can't even begin to imagine the number of losses I've taken. I'm virtually out of airplanes and my factories can't come even close to keeping up. The fact that I've occupied most of Western Europe doesn't seem to be helping. I figured things would settle down in the air once France fell. I'll double check, but I think there are still thousands of enemy aircraft over Western Europe. I presume they are coming from the UK. How effective are antiaircraft batteries in provinces? Germany has pretty heavy air defense throughout, but I'm not sure of the status of the occupied territory.
Preventing Resistance
For me, the two considerations for an occupying force are suppression and conservation of manpower and equipment.
For this reason, I build cheap custom Occupation Regiments of Infantry with 3 Battalions of Infantry and an MP Company.
Regiment-size because you are not using them as front line divisions and because they take less manpower per unit. You can build them cheaper (and faster if you deploy them before they finish training). You can cover three key areas with 3 regiments for the same manpower cost as a full Inf Div which covers only 1 area.
Set them as Low Priority for reinforcements and Equipment and also to use older equipment, and they won't drain your front line divisions.
Creating a separate Theatre for all occupying forces and setting that to Low Priority will further conserve resources.
Also, if you expect future invasions, include Support Artillery, Anti-Air and Engineer Companies.
Alternatively, using Cavalry Battalions will gain a larger Suppression value, as Cavalry are the best type of Battalion for suppressing Resistance. It's your choice.
When building divisions don't forget to look at the combat width.
If you have a frontline of 80 and your division has a combat width of 20 you can fit 4 divisions on the frontline while the rest go to reserve.
If your division had a combat width of 21 only 3 would fit and 17 frontline width is wasted (80 - 21x3).
For that reason I always go for 20 or 40 and avoid all other possibilities. Adding one piece of artillery might strengthen your one division but could give you a weaker frontline as one entire division gets dropped. (Base combat width is 80, additional attack directions bring 40 extra per direction)
When building divisions don't forget to look at the combat width.
If you have a frontline of 80 and your division has a combat width of 20 you can fit 4 divisions on the frontline while the rest go to reserve.
If your division had a combat width of 21 only 3 would fit and 17 frontline width is wasted (80 - 21x3).
For that reason I always go for 20 or 40 and avoid all other possibilities. Adding one piece of artillery might strengthen your one division but could give you a weaker frontline as one entire division gets dropped. (Base combat width is 80, additional attack directions bring 40 extra per direction)
Pete....help me understand this. When you say 'frontline of 80'....80 what? And 'combat width of 21'....21 what?
I have to admit that I completely disregard combat width as a consideration when designing my divisions -- probably ignoring it at my peril, for the reasons Pete mentions. It's my own (admittedly fetishistic) style of play, but I always go for historical verisimilitude even at the cost of what is optimal from a gameplay standpoint. I get a kick out of fiddling with the division designer, which is a fun tool in and of itself (which is again why I find the exp. points limitation intolerable).
@Jarhead -- my current Germany campaign seems to be tracking your own experience to some extent. The question of 'what to do after France' is a big one. Personally, I completely ignore Scandinavia -- I see no reason to pour resources into trying to conquer Denmark and Norway. Let 'em be. In my last play-thru, I made the (somewhat historical) mistake of getting side-tracked into invading Yugoslavia and the Balkans. Fighting in the mountains, esp. in Greece, is a meat-grinder, and when USSR DOW'd in 1940, I was finished.
Currently, it's March 1941. USA entered the war in Sept. 1940 -- a nasty surprise, and one that I'm pretty irritated over since they joined the war without first being attacked. After defeating France, I turned my focus to the Baltic states. I thought -- why not take Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia, and give myself a huge leg-up in the inevitable war with USSR? The best-laid schemes... Midway through steamrolling the Baltics, I noticed USSR was 'researching' as its national focus: "Assert claims on Baltics". I figured conquering the Baltics would hurt my relationship with USSR -- which so far had been cozy, they were by far my biggest trade partner -- but clearly we were on a collision course. No sooner did USSR finish that nat. focus than I got the warning that USSR was working on war justification against innocent ol' me. I rushed all my armies and 90% of my airforce to the East. I have only a token response force in France, although the West is well garrisoned otherwise.
USSR just declared war and I'm not sure how I'm going to fare. They have a big numbers advantage. I only have 8 panzer divisions in the field, although they're good divisions. Meanwhile, USA has a foothold in Sicily and will soon be pressing north in Italy -- nothing I can do about that now.
USSR declaring war also has the huge downside of strangling your resources flow. I depended hugely on USSR for oil especially. I was doing everything in my power to get Netherlands on my side, since losing their supply of rubber is very difficult to overcome. It's the reason I kept refusing Japan's offer to join the Axis (I'm not sure there's any real cost to refusing). Japan was bound to DOW Netherlands to take DEI. Anyway, Netherlands just up and joined the Allies for no apparent reason after I conquered France. Had no choice but to occupy them. But now I'm completely screwed with my rubber supply -- and rubber is *essential* for aircraft. I've been using all my civ. factories to build Oil/Rubber Plants.
This is my second play-thru where USSR declared war on me (Germany) before summer of '41. The fact that USA joined the Allies *in 1940* is, to my mind, a big problem for someone who ticked the 'AI historical focus' box in the options. That shouldn't really happen. And USSR seems a bit overpowered, and much too eager to initiate war with Germany.
When building divisions don't forget to look at the combat width.
If you have a frontline of 80 and your division has a combat width of 20 you can fit 4 divisions on the frontline while the rest go to reserve.
If your division had a combat width of 21 only 3 would fit and 17 frontline width is wasted (80 - 21x3).
For that reason I always go for 20 or 40 and avoid all other possibilities. Adding one piece of artillery might strengthen your one division but could give you a weaker frontline as one entire division gets dropped. (Base combat width is 80, additional attack directions bring 40 extra per direction)
Pete....help me understand this. When you say 'frontline of 80'....80 what? And 'combat width of 21'....21 what?
I don't know what this represents in real life but it is what HOI uses :
from the wiki :
Combat width. Represents the size of the fighting unit. In order to fit in battle, the unit needs to fit into the provided combat width of the battle field. Different unit types increase the designed width with different amount: For example, infantry and armored battalions use 2 width and artillery, anti-tank and anti-air battalions use 3 width. Support battalions do not increase the combat width of a division.
Combat width
Combat width works a lot like in HOI3, but is now more detailed. Each division will have a combat width which will tell you how many divisions fit into the frontline for active fighting. The available width of the combat goes up the more directions you attack from, so tactical flanking is needed if you want to leverage a numerical advantage. Width is also affected by certain combat tactics. Base combat width is 80, where additional directions bring 40 extra per direction. The combat width of a division depends on how it has been designed.
I am trying to keep up but the posts are so long in this thread that it's difficult. I'm getting ready to start a game are there any "must-have "mods around? the ones that almost everybody gets or you really need to deal with an inherent design problem or bug
I am trying to keep up but the posts are so long in this thread that it's difficult. I'm getting ready to start a game are there any "must-have "mods around? the ones that almost everybody gets or you really need to deal with an inherent design problem or bug
Thanks Pete....your screenie helped with division width, but where do you find the combat width of the battlefield?
Personally, I think it's an incredible accomplishment.
I initiated a bit of a flame war on the pdox forum in arguing strongly that division design should *not* be limited by 'army experience points'. I truly hate this mechanic and so I use the mod that eliminates it (sadly that mod isn't compatible with some other important ones, so there's still a bit of a trade off).
I don't buy for a second the argument that the 'exp. points' price somehow prevents exploitative play. I want to be able to design divisions as I see fit, when I see fit. And especially since the default division templates HOI4 gives you are such rubbish, I don't see why we should have to wait for months and months to accrue arbitrary 'points' so that we can do basic things like attach engineer and artillery support to our infantry divisions.
I initiated a bit of a flame war on the pdox forum in arguing strongly that division design should *not* be limited by 'army experience points'. I truly hate this mechanic and so I use the mod that eliminates it (sadly that mod isn't compatible with some other important ones, so there's still a bit of a trade off).
It's been updated: "Now compatible with other mods like expanded industry, thanks to Kaseyawolf2!"
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=698620155QuoteI don't buy for a second the argument that the 'exp. points' price somehow prevents exploitative play. I want to be able to design divisions as I see fit, when I see fit. And especially since the default division templates HOI4 gives you are such rubbish, I don't see why we should have to wait for months and months to accrue arbitrary 'points' so that we can do basic things like attach engineer and artillery support to our infantry divisions.
I agree entirely but for purists there is a way in-game to accrue Land Experience faster, even in peacetime. If you set all land forces on Exercise and also add a particular general/minister to your government/high command, there's a steady experience increase. The minister/general in question is available in either chief of army, high command or ministers. He adds a + x% per day.
I agree entirely but for purists there is a way in-game to accrue Land Experience faster, even in peacetime. If you set all land forces on Exercise and also add a particular general/minister to your government/high command, there's a steady experience increase. The minister/general in question is available in either chief of army, high command or ministers. He adds a + x% per day.
I think the exp. point system makes perfect sense for aircraft/vehicle/ship upgrades.
I also think the exp. points cost is a bit of a cover for the larger problem: the AI's inability to build and upgrade proper divisions in the first place.
Although I would love to have a blank division template I think it should be an optional feature.
How the hell can a player as Germany recruit and deploy enough divisions to score a quick win in the west and if not be in a position to invade Russia, at least have enough security on the eastern border to hold them?
How the hell can a player as Germany recruit and deploy enough divisions to score a quick win in the west and if not be in a position to invade Russia, at least have enough security on the eastern border to hold them?
What is your Conscription setting set to?
My question is how are those red divisions combat worthy ?
I mean the Soviets issue was always equipment; a crack, supplied german div should roll through the Soviet line if they are throwing out green undersupplied divisions.
What is the consensus on how many divisions to recruit and train at once? I'm assuming the more units in training at any one time, the slower they are actually trained...particularly if there is not enough equipment to go around.
Well...my great game as Germany and all my grandiose plans went to $hit last night after Russia declared war and invaded. The 48 divisions I had on the frontier were entirely overwhelmed by the Red onslaught. Within months, the Russians reached Warsaw and I simply do not see anyway to stop the juggernaut and turn the tide. How the hell can a player as Germany recruit and deploy enough divisions to score a quick win in the west and if not be in a position to invade Russia, at least have enough security on the eastern border to hold them?
How the hell can a player as Germany recruit and deploy enough divisions to score a quick win in the west and if not be in a position to invade Russia, at least have enough security on the eastern border to hold them?
How the hell can a player as Germany recruit and deploy enough divisions to score a quick win in the west and if not be in a position to invade Russia, at least have enough security on the eastern border to hold them?
Bingo -- this is the problem. HOI4 is hugely unbalanced right now on many levels, one of the most damaging being the AI's *massive overproduction* of divisions. Many of them are crappy divisions, but when you crank out 700 divisions, well, as Stalin is supposed to have said, quantity has a quality all its own. Unfortunately that number is not an exaggeration. In my current game as Germany, the info. on the 'current wars' screen shows that USSR has somewhere between 500-900 divisions. I have around 200. I dug up a fact recently that indicated the USA, at the *peak* of its power toward the end of WW2, never had more than around 230-240 divisions *in all the services combined*. Even for the feared Soviet hordes, 700 divisions seems a tad overkill.
I don't see how the Germany player can possibly contend with USSR as HOI4 currently stands. In a couple of aborted play-thrus I've experienced playing Germany, USSR declared war on me every time. I never initiated Barbarossa, because USSR was itching to fight well before June '41. In my current game, it's Sept. '41 -- USSR declared war on me months ago and we are locked in a death match. I can't initiate any offensive, because all I'm doing is trying to hold a long front-line that extends from Estonia down to Romania. I easily have 80% of my divisions and 95% of my airforce committed to holding the Russians back, and I also have ample help from Italian, Hungarian, Romanian, and Yugoslavian allies. But it's like the proverbial dam that springing leaks everywhere. There's only a limited number of fingers I can use to plug the leaks, and sooner or later, the whole thing's gonna give way.
So yeah, not sure what to say. HOI4 seems fairly unplayable as Germany. USA joins the war way too early, and USSR gets the jump on you every time.
How the hell can a player as Germany recruit and deploy enough divisions to score a quick win in the west and if not be in a position to invade Russia, at least have enough security on the eastern border to hold them?
Bingo -- this is the problem. HOI4 is hugely unbalanced right now on many levels, one of the most damaging being the AI's *massive overproduction* of divisions. Many of them are crappy divisions, but when you crank out 700 divisions, well, as Stalin is supposed to have said, quantity has a quality all its own. Unfortunately that number is not an exaggeration. In my current game as Germany, the info. on the 'current wars' screen shows that USSR has somewhere between 500-900 divisions. I have around 200. I dug up a fact recently that indicated the USA, at the *peak* of its power toward the end of WW2, never had more than around 230-240 divisions *in all the services combined*. Even for the feared Soviet hordes, 700 divisions seems a tad overkill.
I don't see how the Germany player can possibly contend with USSR as HOI4 currently stands. In a couple of aborted play-thrus I've experienced playing Germany, USSR declared war on me every time. I never initiated Barbarossa, because USSR was itching to fight well before June '41. In my current game, it's Sept. '41 -- USSR declared war on me months ago and we are locked in a death match. I can't initiate any offensive, because all I'm doing is trying to hold a long front-line that extends from Estonia down to Romania. I easily have 80% of my divisions and 95% of my airforce committed to holding the Russians back, and I also have ample help from Italian, Hungarian, Romanian, and Yugoslavian allies. But it's like the proverbial dam that springing leaks everywhere. There's only a limited number of fingers I can use to plug the leaks, and sooner or later, the whole thing's gonna give way.
So yeah, not sure what to say. HOI4 seems fairly unplayable as Germany. USA joins the war way too early, and USSR gets the jump on you every time.
A friend of mine playing HOI4 has Germany dominating the world. He dropped paras on Brittain in 1937 and conquered them out of the war by 38. This left him free to run rampant in Afrika take Turkey and initiate Barbarossa by 41. Currently he has crushed the Comintern and is now rolling his Panzer Divisions against the US in the Pacific theater.
I am playing Italy and we just hit May 43 before the Russians started the war. I am currently taking Turkey and then plan on entrenching my mountain divisions in the Caucuses and Ashabad mountain ranges. Lets see if we can hold off the bear.
Con
Well he told me he followed some advice he got on HOI4 on youtube I think. I will ask him for some pics. BAsed on how our lunch conversations on HOI4 are I believe him but proof of his diabolical plans are necessary.How the hell can a player as Germany recruit and deploy enough divisions to score a quick win in the west and if not be in a position to invade Russia, at least have enough security on the eastern border to hold them?
Bingo -- this is the problem. HOI4 is hugely unbalanced right now on many levels, one of the most damaging being the AI's *massive overproduction* of divisions. Many of them are crappy divisions, but when you crank out 700 divisions, well, as Stalin is supposed to have said, quantity has a quality all its own. Unfortunately that number is not an exaggeration. In my current game as Germany, the info. on the 'current wars' screen shows that USSR has somewhere between 500-900 divisions. I have around 200. I dug up a fact recently that indicated the USA, at the *peak* of its power toward the end of WW2, never had more than around 230-240 divisions *in all the services combined*. Even for the feared Soviet hordes, 700 divisions seems a tad overkill.
I don't see how the Germany player can possibly contend with USSR as HOI4 currently stands. In a couple of aborted play-thrus I've experienced playing Germany, USSR declared war on me every time. I never initiated Barbarossa, because USSR was itching to fight well before June '41. In my current game, it's Sept. '41 -- USSR declared war on me months ago and we are locked in a death match. I can't initiate any offensive, because all I'm doing is trying to hold a long front-line that extends from Estonia down to Romania. I easily have 80% of my divisions and 95% of my airforce committed to holding the Russians back, and I also have ample help from Italian, Hungarian, Romanian, and Yugoslavian allies. But it's like the proverbial dam that springing leaks everywhere. There's only a limited number of fingers I can use to plug the leaks, and sooner or later, the whole thing's gonna give way.
So yeah, not sure what to say. HOI4 seems fairly unplayable as Germany. USA joins the war way too early, and USSR gets the jump on you every time.
A friend of mine playing HOI4 has Germany dominating the world. He dropped paras on Brittain in 1937 and conquered them out of the war by 38. This left him free to run rampant in Afrika take Turkey and initiate Barbarossa by 41. Currently he has crushed the Comintern and is now rolling his Panzer Divisions against the US in the Pacific theater.
I am playing Italy and we just hit May 43 before the Russians started the war. I am currently taking Turkey and then plan on entrenching my mountain divisions in the Caucuses and Ashabad mountain ranges. Lets see if we can hold off the bear.
Con
Pics...or it didn't happen.
How are airborne units going to be able to take control of the UK without armor, mechanized and heavier infantry support? How was he able to build enough airborne units and transports to get enough boots on the ground by 1937? What about the other allied powers? When he declared war on the UK, didn't the UK bring France and everyone else into the war? If so, how was he able to hold the Seigfried line? i would expect his divisions in mainland Germany to be minimal since he would have to have placed so much effort into building those airborne units.
I dunno...I'm sure its possible, given a lot of luck, but still...I'm pretty skeptical.
My own personal theory is that Paradox has some kind of secret aversion to reproducing history.
I have never understood people who want five million variables in an historical simulation, then complain that they can't repeat history exactly. If you went back to 1936 and started history over, I bet it wouldn't come out the same. If you want to repeat history exactly, you're better off just reading a history book.
I find HOI4 great to play and find most decisions fairly plausible. Is the AI perfect and great...no. But I have seen any number of humans make stupid mistakes and decisions. There are people who have their pet peeves on any game and will spend more time testing our those peeves than playing the game. The key word is "game"...play it.
How the hell can a player as Germany recruit and deploy enough divisions to score a quick win in the west and if not be in a position to invade Russia, at least have enough security on the eastern border to hold them?
Bingo -- this is the problem. HOI4 is hugely unbalanced right now on many levels, one of the most damaging being the AI's *massive overproduction* of divisions. Many of them are crappy divisions, but when you crank out 700 divisions, well, as Stalin is supposed to have said, quantity has a quality all its own. Unfortunately that number is not an exaggeration. In my current game as Germany, the info. on the 'current wars' screen shows that USSR has somewhere between 500-900 divisions. I have around 200. I dug up a fact recently that indicated the USA, at the *peak* of its power toward the end of WW2, never had more than around 230-240 divisions *in all the services combined*. Even for the feared Soviet hordes, 700 divisions seems a tad overkill.
I don't see how the Germany player can possibly contend with USSR as HOI4 currently stands. In a couple of aborted play-thrus I've experienced playing Germany, USSR declared war on me every time. I never initiated Barbarossa, because USSR was itching to fight well before June '41. In my current game, it's Sept. '41 -- USSR declared war on me months ago and we are locked in a death match. I can't initiate any offensive, because all I'm doing is trying to hold a long front-line that extends from Estonia down to Romania. I easily have 80% of my divisions and 95% of my airforce committed to holding the Russians back, and I also have ample help from Italian, Hungarian, Romanian, and Yugoslavian allies. But it's like the proverbial dam that springing leaks everywhere. There's only a limited number of fingers I can use to plug the leaks, and sooner or later, the whole thing's gonna give way.
So yeah, not sure what to say. HOI4 seems fairly unplayable as Germany. USA joins the war way too early, and USSR gets the jump on you every time.
My point us that on these and the Pdox forums, one person complains the USSR doesn't build enough divisions and a few days later someone complains its building too many. There are so many variables and settings, I am not sure anyone can compare games without listing a whole heap of settings. Walking in and saying just "XXX builds too many cheap divisions" adds very little to figuring balance out.
I always think about Nazi Germany not putting the economy on a war footing until 1942. If the AI did that, people would be screaming for someone's head at Pdox. How about taking all of your carriers, putting them in one giant "super-fleet", and attacking the largest US naval base in the Pacific? Or how about invading the China with a relatively small army in 1937? If the AI did any of those people things, we would be calling it one of the worst AIs ever.
So I got the pics from my friends game...its a true screenie since he doesnt have Fraps and he never has really done any posting on blogs he went the easy route and took photos of his screen with his iphone and sent them to me! :)How the hell can a player as Germany recruit and deploy enough divisions to score a quick win in the west and if not be in a position to invade Russia, at least have enough security on the eastern border to hold them?
Bingo -- this is the problem. HOI4 is hugely unbalanced right now on many levels, one of the most damaging being the AI's *massive overproduction* of divisions. Many of them are crappy divisions, but when you crank out 700 divisions, well, as Stalin is supposed to have said, quantity has a quality all its own. Unfortunately that number is not an exaggeration. In my current game as Germany, the info. on the 'current wars' screen shows that USSR has somewhere between 500-900 divisions. I have around 200. I dug up a fact recently that indicated the USA, at the *peak* of its power toward the end of WW2, never had more than around 230-240 divisions *in all the services combined*. Even for the feared Soviet hordes, 700 divisions seems a tad overkill.
I don't see how the Germany player can possibly contend with USSR as HOI4 currently stands. In a couple of aborted play-thrus I've experienced playing Germany, USSR declared war on me every time. I never initiated Barbarossa, because USSR was itching to fight well before June '41. In my current game, it's Sept. '41 -- USSR declared war on me months ago and we are locked in a death match. I can't initiate any offensive, because all I'm doing is trying to hold a long front-line that extends from Estonia down to Romania. I easily have 80% of my divisions and 95% of my airforce committed to holding the Russians back, and I also have ample help from Italian, Hungarian, Romanian, and Yugoslavian allies. But it's like the proverbial dam that springing leaks everywhere. There's only a limited number of fingers I can use to plug the leaks, and sooner or later, the whole thing's gonna give way.
So yeah, not sure what to say. HOI4 seems fairly unplayable as Germany. USA joins the war way too early, and USSR gets the jump on you every time.
A friend of mine playing HOI4 has Germany dominating the world. He dropped paras on Brittain in 1937 and conquered them out of the war by 38. This left him free to run rampant in Afrika take Turkey and initiate Barbarossa by 41. Currently he has crushed the Comintern and is now rolling his Panzer Divisions against the US in the Pacific theater.
I am playing Italy and we just hit May 43 before the Russians started the war. I am currently taking Turkey and then plan on entrenching my mountain divisions in the Caucuses and Ashabad mountain ranges. Lets see if we can hold off the bear.
Con
Pics...or it didn't happen.
How are airborne units going to be able to take control of the UK without armor, mechanized and heavier infantry support? How was he able to build enough airborne units and transports to get enough boots on the ground by 1937? What about the other allied powers? When he declared war on the UK, didn't the UK bring France and everyone else into the war? If so, how was he able to hold the Seigfried line? i would expect his divisions in mainland Germany to be minimal since he would have to have placed so much effort into building those airborne units.
I dunno...I'm sure its possible, given a lot of luck, but still...I'm pretty skeptical.
Unfortunately the setting of the game attracts an infinite amount of passionate nitpicking. It's the same with Gary Grigsby stuff.
We don't see complaining at this level in EU. And people accept all sorts wacky un-historical results there.
Country with the biggest army in my world is France. About 900 divs.900 or 90?
So I got the pics from my friends game...its a true screenie since he doesnt have Fraps and he never has really done any posting on blogs he went the easy route and took photos of his screen with his iphone and sent them to me! :)
Here they are showing the German Reich owning the Comintern invading Brazil, fighting in the pacific and occupying the UK.
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p623/conradmaher/IMG_2097_zps1dnyaz4g.jpg)
at lunch today he told me he is in the late 1950s right now
at lunch today he told me he is in the late 1950s right now
That explains it then, I had no idea the game could be played that long.
I think the overall vibe on the HOI4 Pdox forum is ridiculous -- extremely negative, like you say. I honestly don't get it. I've been with the series since the original HOI, and I had sky-high expectations for HOI4 leading up launch. My honest assessment is that the game does not disappoint. I'm completely enthralled by it, in fact. The shortcomings are real and I'm not trying to diminish them -- the AI does need substantial work across the board. The balance for many of the major nations seems quite a bit off -- USSR too powerful, Japan not powerful enough, and so forth. Handling of naval and air combat, as ever, needs improvement. So yeah, there is still a lot of work to do on Pdox's part. But even so, the game just shines in my view. It's strong enough that it's enjoyable even in spite of all the problems -- problems which will start to get ironed out in time, with expansions and patches.
Maybe it's Pollyanna-ish of me, but I think HOI4 is a triumph, despite many legitimate criticisms.
Anyhow, back on topic. I'm just getting ready to start my first game....likely as Germany. Have you guys found the new patch to be pretty good? Or should I wait a few more days for some hot fixes ?
Hey gents O0
So, I'm giving this game another shot. I got frustrated (mainly with my lack of knowledge and patience) and took a break from the game. I'm thinking of playing as either Italy or France and am going to do my best at taking my time and trying not to rush to the end :crazy2:
I have a couple questions I hope someone can answer and I apologize if it's been asked here before (I really do not want to search through 49 pages of posts....although, I probably will have to at some point ^-^)
When creating upgraded equipment like Infantry Weapons 2....how does one make sure his/her more experienced units get those new upgrades?
Can we do anything with the "older" equipment?
When creating a new division template, is it best to do it right away or wait a while? What's been your experience?
Lastly, how do you deploy your new divisions? Do you place them right on the front? Some safer province and train them up a bit before sending them to the front?
That's it for now. The rest I'll learn by doing and going over this thread.
Again, thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.
So, I'm giving this game another shot. I got frustrated (mainly with my lack of knowledge and patience) and took a break from the game. I'm thinking of playing as either Italy or France and am going to do my best at taking my time and trying not to rush to the end :crazy2:
When creating upgraded equipment like Infantry Weapons 2....how does one make sure his/her more experienced units get those new upgrades?
Can we do anything with the "older" equipment?
Lastly, how do you deploy your new divisions? Do you place them right on the front? Some safer province and train them up a bit before sending them to the front?
So, I'm giving this game another shot. I got frustrated (mainly with my lack of knowledge and patience) and took a break from the game. I'm thinking of playing as either Italy or France and am going to do my best at taking my time and trying not to rush to the end :crazy2:
When creating upgraded equipment like Infantry Weapons 2....how does one make sure his/her more experienced units get those new upgrades?
Can we do anything with the "older" equipment?
Lastly, how do you deploy your new divisions? Do you place them right on the front? Some safer province and train them up a bit before sending them to the front?
1. You can set what equipment a division template gets. So I have 2 identical medium panzer templates. One is SS with best equipment; and other is regular army. You can copy a template at no cost by the way.
So I set my SS to get panthers before anybody else while I only have a few in stock coming of the lines.
Division template edit- click on tab at top "Division Equipment". You can then tick or untick what equipment that template can use.
2. Older equipment. At one point I had a second line infantry covering France using older equipment's. After that I lend lease my older equipment to allies or send to coups.
3. I create a training Army under a field marshal. Set deploy units to province and them direct to that army. They then train a bit before I'm ready to select them and right click them into new front line armies.
Teeth Divisions usually don't get full on map training to regular because I figure the training attrition may as well be in combat. Plus I need them.
Security suppression and garrison divisions stay training but in a working position on the map until regular.
I always think about Nazi Germany not putting the economy on a war footing until 1942. If the AI did that, people would be screaming for someone's head at Pdox. How about taking all of your carriers, putting them in one giant "super-fleet", and attacking the largest US naval base in the Pacific? Or how about invading the China with a relatively small army in 1937? If the AI did any of those things, we would be calling it one of the worst AIs ever.
I always think about Nazi Germany not putting the economy on a war footing until 1942. If the AI did that, people would be screaming for someone's head at Pdox. How about taking all of your carriers, putting them in one giant "super-fleet", and attacking the largest US naval base in the Pacific? Or how about invading the China with a relatively small army in 1937? If the AI did any of those things, we would be calling it one of the worst AIs ever.
Agree 100%
"In my game, Germany was at war with Britain and the U.S. and fighting in North Africa, putting down threats in Yugoslavia and Greece as well as preparing for an inevitable cross-channel invasion. For no reason, Germany decided to invade the Soviet Union and is now fighting everywhere! Paradox!!! Please fix the AI so that it doesn't start new wars until the old ones are finished!"
Lol
There is a fine line that a human might catch and the AI might miss- how much is too much? Germany did launch Barbarossa while Britain was still standing and there was heavy fighting in the Med. It does sound like the AI was biting off too much in the given example. Hitler finished off the Balkans before he invaded Russia, historically. Having said that, though, the AI needs work.
Yeah, that's an issue..
Maybe amphibious invasions are too easy in hearts of iron 4 and there needs to be a lot more involved so that you simply can't just hop across the channel.
Do you find that the AI does a good job of weeding forces behind against a land-based adversary sharing the border? For example: does Germany keep forces IN Germany if it's off fighting the Soviets but is fighting France?
Great tutorial about battleplans (e.g. multiple plans on one front or having a number of plans executed in succession)
Maybe the solution would be to increased the "cost quote open Debbie is beige and somehow instead of writing something that forces the AII to keep a huge chunk of its forces behind?
Do you find that the AI does a good job of weeding forces behind against a land-based adversary sharing the border? For example: does Germany keep forces IN Germany if it's off fighting the Soviets but is fighting France?
Maybe the solution would be to increased the "cost quote open Debbie is beige and somehow instead of writing something that forces the AII to keep a huge chunk of its forces behind?
Could you explain what you meant there ?
I haven't encountered 'the empty homeland' bug in my games so far.
A solution could be to increase the value of your homeland VP's so they are more valuable then the VP you conquered. This could encourage the AI to protect their homeland VP's.
One thing I've seen which I'm not happy with is the Empty Homeland 'bug'.
I've seen the UK attempt to invade The Reich several times and always through the northern coast near Hamburg. A few months later, I invaded the UK and there was not a single UK unit there.
In my last game as the US, invaded Japan in 1946. One unit was guarding it.
One thing I've seen which I'm not happy with is the Empty Homeland 'bug'.
I've seen the UK attempt to invade The Reich several times and always through the northern coast near Hamburg. A few months later, I invaded the UK and there was not a single UK unit there.
In my last game as the US, invaded Japan in 1946. One unit was guarding it.
I take some of this back.
Started a 1939 game as The Reich, and tried Sea Lion and the UK just kicked my ass. Don't know exactly what happened here, but the UK had garrisoned units on the coast, and their navy ripped the hell out of my forces, even though I was sure I'd bombed most of them. I got Air Superiority but they just sank half my invasion force and are now kicking them back on the coastlines. Hmm...
After vacation we will be working on 1.2 patch or 1.1.1 if a hotfix is needed. AI and balance will be priority but we also have some nice ideas for increasing difficulty and replayability and such for players who have already mastered the game. More info on that in august.
The difference might be the '39 scenario. I admit to having never done a '39 start. Maybe I'll try a US '39 game today.
Question.....playing USA, it's August 1940 and the world is at war but I've yet to become a part of it. I suspect that is about to change. I have no handle on the number of military and naval factories I should have. Currently I have 25 military and 27 naval. Am I woefully under in numbers? What has been your experience with this? Thanks, Ray
Hmm, that's strange. If you have a unit selected that's in a province with a port, and right-click on an overseas province that has a port, it should automatically embark, using transports from the 'pool' that's indicated on the topmost UI bar... If you're USA I can't imagine you don't have sufficient transports -- you are likely swimming in them.
Did you try right-clicking directly on the port, rather than the province it's in? Not sure if that makes a difference (just spitballing from my office at work : ) ).
Also, HOI4 AI unfortunately (as in games past) seems to follow the naval doctrine of "Combine all your ships into a single superfleet, reality be damned." That means if you try to follow US doctrine, for ex., early war doctrine stipulated only one fleet carrier per task force, your precious carriers are likely to get annihilated by the roving Japanese super-fleet(s). It also means doing things like adding multiple battleships to your carrier task forces, again, not something USN generally did in the early war with its slow battlewagons -- and really I think didn't even do later in the war with the faster battleships, except possibly as anti-aircraft platforms? Regardless, Japanese AI will throw CVs, BBs, subs, you name it into single large fleets. It's immersion killing and something I really hope Pdox will try to improve.
I've tried both methods...clicking on land and clicking on the port. I'll double check to make sure the current location is definitely a port, rather than a naval construction facility.
Its a 10 division army I am trying to move...is it possible that it is too large a unit to move at once?
Also, HOI4 AI unfortunately (as in games past) seems to follow the naval doctrine of "Combine all your ships into a single superfleet, reality be damned." That means if you try to follow US doctrine, for ex., early war doctrine stipulated only one fleet carrier per task force, your precious carriers are likely to get annihilated by the roving Japanese super-fleet(s). It also means doing things like adding multiple battleships to your carrier task forces, again, not something USN generally did in the early war with its slow battlewagons -- and really I think didn't even do later in the war with the faster battleships, except possibly as anti-aircraft platforms? Regardless, Japanese AI will throw CVs, BBs, subs, you name it into single large fleets. It's immersion killing and something I really hope Pdox will try to improve.
Didn't the Japanese actually do just that for both Pearl Harbor and Midway? Especially at Midway, if you consider all the pieces in play at the same time, except the diversion force. The Japanese seemed to tend to consolidate their carriers into 1 large fleet with a few in port. I thought the 3rd fleet late in the war contained all carriers that were operational.
In fact, didn't the large US carrier fleets do the same thing late in the war. A lot of carriers and BBs in the same fleet. I'm not saying the AI is doing the right things, but the "super fleet" isn't far from reality at a strategic level, I thought.
I've tried both methods...clicking on land and clicking on the port. I'll double check to make sure the current location is definitely a port, rather than a naval construction facility.
Its a 10 division army I am trying to move...is it possible that it is too large a unit to move at once?
Actually, the USN did that quite a bit early in the war. They were doing a lot of hit & run raids.
I have a copy open of John Ellis' World War II Databook (US: https://www.amazon.com/World-War-II-Data-Book/dp/1854102540 UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/World-War-II-Data-Book/dp/1854102540 if you don't own one, order one right now. You won't be disappointed).
I'm no expert on WW2 naval warfare either and don't mean to mislead -- what I wrote was from memory based on reading, so imperfect certainly, and probably too influenced by GG's War in the Pacific AE. "One CV per TF" was putting it too categorically -- but I'm pretty sure that early war USN doctrine favored smallrt, flexible TFs built around 1 (or 2) fleet carriers. This grew as the war progressed. But I think WITP means to simulate this by having an air-strike coordination penalty for USN early in the war -- so if you load 4 CVs into a single TF in '42, you're actually penalizing yourself *as the US player* -- you'll actually dissipate your air-strike potential, not maximize it. Things are quite the opposite for the IJN player, since as has been pointed out, IJN certainly did put together large TFs for the large scale strikes against Pearl - the 'Kido Butai' - and Midway. The TF for Midway was enormous taken as a whole, although I think it was parcelled out in ways that meant the whole 'main body' was not in proximity at any one time -- i.e. Yamamoto's flagship Yamato was nowhere near Nagumo's carrier strike fleet when disaster struck -- the battleships were kept separate from the CVs, even though in a broad sense they were part of the same strike force.
So yes, it would be realistic if in HOI4, in the early Pacific war anyway, USN assembled smaller carrier TFs, and IJN assembled larger TFs. Still, even by this measure, the HOI4 AI puts together insane fleets: 80 destroyers, 6 carriers, 7 battleships, plus subs etc. And as US player, if you don't do the same, your fleets will get completely wiped out.
Considering the ocean region sizes, I actually think "doom fleets" sort of make sense.
I mean, look at the ridiculously large OOB's for battles like Leyte Gulf, or in WW1 Jutland, and it's pretty understandable why massing forces seems to be the best course of action.
The issue comes in that scenarios like Midway don't really occur, where a much smaller, but better led and luckier force beat a "doom stack".
Of course, if a Midway like result happened in HoI4 people on the Paradox forum would scream about it.
Well, my WWII Databook arrived today. Wow. Just wow. I'm going to sleep with it and have like 100 of its babies. Its awesome.
Thanks for the recommendation!
I overlooked this earlier -- now I want this too!
I have a copy open of John Ellis' World War II Databook (US: https://www.amazon.com/World-War-II-Data-Book/dp/1854102540 UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/World-War-II-Data-Book/dp/1854102540 if you don't own one, order one right now. You won't be disappointed).
I overlooked this earlier -- now I want this too!
I am no fanboi of HOI4 AI. I mean, the challenge of HOI4 is the complexity, not the AI. But I really hate to see this forum turn into the Pdox forums where its like people are just waiting for the AI to do something stupid so they can complain about it, without even looking at what happened historically. I see the AI making a lot of little mistakes that I say to myself, "I would never do that". Its pretty easy, if you play and replay the same set ups over and over again, to beat the AI. And, to me, that is the main issue with any AI. It becomes predictable. HOI4 seems no different. But on a first run through of a set up, I find the AI at least as competent as I am, maybe more so.
Speaking as a total grand strategy noob and Paradox noob, I find this game intolerably infuriating and I've shelved it possibly forever
But that is more on me than the game :uglystupid2:
But, once again, I'd like to thank everyone who posted on this thread. I'd like to say it helped me, but it didn't (on me, not all of you) :crazy2:
I don't see much of that on this forum really. In fact, I post here exclusively just for that reason: that people tend to give reasonable opinions about games and have reasonable complaints...I find anyway.
With the amount of things the AI is required to do for each nation, it's surprising to me that it is as good as it is.
I'm not an apologist for bad AI...just asking that people consider that human generals have made dumb decisions.
Some AI moves in games are a result of bad AI or bugs and whatnot. All AI decisions are results of algorithms; but to me, it's not immersion killing when an AI makes a stupid move since REAL people do it...so long as it is "reasonably stupid" and coherent.
I've also found that most of these issues are less in the '39 scenario, primarily because the AI has less time at peace to make setup mistakes.
Speaking as a total grand strategy noob and Paradox noob, I find this game intolerably infuriating and I've shelved it possibly forever
But that is more on me than the game :uglystupid2:
But, once again, I'd like to thank everyone who posted on this thread. I'd like to say it helped me, but it didn't (on me, not all of you) :crazy2:
In HOI4, I have yet to run into anything that makes me throw my hands up in the air and declare, "I can't believe the AI did that, no human would ever do that." I have seen human players in Combat Mission and other players do some really stupid things.
Yeah, but people need to be realistic about it. I really don't want patching resources spent on trying to make a perfect AI. A reasonable one?...sure. But listening to people complain about the every aspect of the AI, especially claiming its doing unrealistic things, when its not necessarily unreasonable based on history, will not help.
The problem I see, even on this board, is general claims of the AI doing this or that, without any context whatsoever. This is a very complex game and throwing out a general statement about too many amphibious landings without some details won't help get anything fixed. How about year, alliances, enemies, national focus, aggressiveness, production, research, etc. I am still not familiar with HOI4 enough to even know...can a save be posted so others can see settings?
I also think a big factor is people who played a lot of HOI2/3 coming and knowing just enough to be dangerous in HOI4. They are assuming HOI4 is less of a game than its predecessors or the AI is broken.
And I, now and then, pull out an old Command HQ example from my days playing in Windows 3.1. I used to play it to death and beat the AI a lot, but got killed a couple times when the AI loaded up a huge armada and attacked me through Africa up into Europe. It was the first MP game I had ever owned and I got so pissed off at the game and AI that I convinced my buddy at work to hook up our PCs through serial ports and play against me. In our first game, guess what he did? Built a huge armada and attacked me through Africa. He cleaned my clock. When I asked him why he chose that strategy, he said he wanted to do something unconventional. I gained a little more respect for the AI on that simple game.
My point is that when people demand an AI be fixed, I think they sometimes lose sight of the fact that you wouldn't want an AI that is perfect. There are times that an AI is broken and needs fixing, but sometimes its a game mechanic that is actually broken. For example, the marching through another country's territory bug. That to me is actually a game play bug that manifested itself as a perceived AI bug. In HOI4, I have yet to run into anything that makes me throw my hands up in the air and declare, "I can't believe the AI did that, no human would ever do that." I have seen human players in Combat Mission and other players do some really stupid things.
Maybe as people play it more they become jaded because they can see patterns in AI play. But I think if people had to play scenarios clean and not be allowed to replay them the AI would appear to be a much better opponent. The one all encompassing fault with AIs right now is that they don't learn from replaying a scenario.
If anyone wants to see what the AI does exactly, bring up the console window and type observe to see the AI run your nation. Also checking the 'see allies warplans' will provide greater insight.
http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Console_commands
When building aircraft when there is no 'need' to fill a deficiency a symbol comes up on the build screen saying they are being put into reserves. Where do I access these reserves to get them assigned to air bases?
When building aircraft when there is no 'need' to fill a deficiency a symbol comes up on the build screen saying they are being put into reserves. Where do I access these reserves to get them assigned to air bases?
Select any airbase, preferably an empty one. There should be a create new squadron button blinking at the top of the airbase screen. Simply deploy a brand new squadron from your reserves, make it however large you like.
Playing as the Americans, the Germans attacked France early, but I threw 20 divisions and about 1000 planes over there and blunted their attack. They were stopped in the low countries, and never crossed the Maginot line. I was all intertangled with the French and the Brits.
Suddenly, France capitulated. I wasn't really paying attention to the rear areas around Paris, but I'm pretty sure there were no Germans there. Anyway, it was a pretty big surprise but at least nobody hit me from behind through France after the capitulation, and I was able to throw up a hook line so that I had a defensive line facing France and still had the low countries. The Brits, Dutch and Belgians were still there fighting alongside me. It was a little touch and go and the Germans got halfway through Netherlands and the Dutch capitulated. I had to march a few divisions over there to help out after that happened, but the situation stabilized and we had a really solid U-shaped line, with me holding the Southern front and the northwest front and the Belgians the short eastern line and a little of the northern line. I did one limited offensive into Northern France, and successfully pushed the Germans back a bit to grab a port and the big airfield at Calais, which I quickly filled up with planes. The Maginot line and the line in the Netherlands were both really stout, Belgium and the West part of the Netherlands including the port at Rotterdam were safe as houses and I had massive air superiority and a second offensive planned to take Paris with both my corps planning lights lit up green. This was early '42.
And then Belgium capitulated, under no threat at all. Not only that, but the Belgian divisions that had been holding part of the Netherlands and Maginot Line fronts all were suddenly enemy! My 8 divisions I had sent to shore up the Netherlands were completely cut off and no longer connected to a port, and the two corps that were ready to jump off to Paris suddenly had 10 enemy divisions on a broad front in their rear and nothing at all to stop the whole German army from pouring into the gap before I could attack those divisions and seal the hole again.
Is this WAD? Man, that was RAW.
Playing as the Americans, the Germans attacked France early, but I threw 20 divisions and about 1000 planes over there and blunted their attack. They were stopped in the low countries, and never crossed the Maginot line. I was all intertangled with the French and the Brits.
Suddenly, France capitulated. I wasn't really paying attention to the rear areas around Paris, but I'm pretty sure there were no Germans there. Anyway, it was a pretty big surprise but at least nobody hit me from behind through France after the capitulation, and I was able to throw up a hook line so that I had a defensive line facing France and still had the low countries. The Brits, Dutch and Belgians were still there fighting alongside me. It was a little touch and go and the Germans got halfway through Netherlands and the Dutch capitulated. I had to march a few divisions over there to help out after that happened, but the situation stabilized and we had a really solid U-shaped line, with me holding the Southern front and the northwest front and the Belgians the short eastern line and a little of the northern line. I did one limited offensive into Northern France, and successfully pushed the Germans back a bit to grab a port and the big airfield at Calais, which I quickly filled up with planes. The Maginot line and the line in the Netherlands were both really stout, Belgium and the West part of the Netherlands including the port at Rotterdam were safe as houses and I had massive air superiority and a second offensive planned to take Paris with both my corps planning lights lit up green. This was early '42.
And then Belgium capitulated, under no threat at all. Not only that, but the Belgian divisions that had been holding part of the Netherlands and Maginot Line fronts all were suddenly enemy! My 8 divisions I had sent to shore up the Netherlands were completely cut off and no longer connected to a port, and the two corps that were ready to jump off to Paris suddenly had 10 enemy divisions on a broad front in their rear and nothing at all to stop the whole German army from pouring into the gap before I could attack those divisions and seal the hole again.
Is this WAD? Man, that was RAW.
I mean in reality the country could certainly capitulate if the leader felt the nation was being destroyed and it wasn't worth it... Or that it was a losing cause ....but man, I'm really surprised at the French capitulation. If your final line was going through Belgium and there was a lot of fighting there, I could see why Belgium would capitulate but for France to capitulate when there's no threat to Paris I don't see that.
It's easy to justify that decision by saying that no European country except for Germany and Britain really had the stomach for war in 1940. They were all still reeling from World War I. But I think that's leading the game off the hook. I don't know what factors go into a nation capitulating don't really have a problem with the Belgium one but France capitulating makes me scratch my head
Playing as the Americans, the Germans attacked France early, but I threw 20 divisions and about 1000 planes over there and blunted their attack. They were stopped in the low countries, and never crossed the Maginot line. I was all intertangled with the French and the Brits.
Suddenly, France capitulated. I wasn't really paying attention to the rear areas around Paris, but I'm pretty sure there were no Germans there. Anyway, it was a pretty big surprise but at least nobody hit me from behind through France after the capitulation, and I was able to throw up a hook line so that I had a defensive line facing France and still had the low countries. The Brits, Dutch and Belgians were still there fighting alongside me. It was a little touch and go and the Germans got halfway through Netherlands and the Dutch capitulated. I had to march a few divisions over there to help out after that happened, but the situation stabilized and we had a really solid U-shaped line, with me holding the Southern front and the northwest front and the Belgians the short eastern line and a little of the northern line. I did one limited offensive into Northern France, and successfully pushed the Germans back a bit to grab a port and the big airfield at Calais, which I quickly filled up with planes. The Maginot line and the line in the Netherlands were both really stout, Belgium and the West part of the Netherlands including the port at Rotterdam were safe as houses and I had massive air superiority and a second offensive planned to take Paris with both my corps planning lights lit up green. This was early '42.
And then Belgium capitulated, under no threat at all. Not only that, but the Belgian divisions that had been holding part of the Netherlands and Maginot Line fronts all were suddenly enemy! My 8 divisions I had sent to shore up the Netherlands were completely cut off and no longer connected to a port, and the two corps that were ready to jump off to Paris suddenly had 10 enemy divisions on a broad front in their rear and nothing at all to stop the whole German army from pouring into the gap before I could attack those divisions and seal the hole again.
Is this WAD? Man, that was RAW.
Playing as the Americans, the Germans attacked France early, but I threw 20 divisions and about 1000 planes over there and blunted their attack. They were stopped in the low countries, and never crossed the Maginot line. I was all intertangled with the French and the Brits.
Suddenly, France capitulated. I wasn't really paying attention to the rear areas around Paris, but I'm pretty sure there were no Germans there. Anyway, it was a pretty big surprise but at least nobody hit me from behind through France after the capitulation, and I was able to throw up a hook line so that I had a defensive line facing France and still had the low countries. The Brits, Dutch and Belgians were still there fighting alongside me. It was a little touch and go and the Germans got halfway through Netherlands and the Dutch capitulated. I had to march a few divisions over there to help out after that happened, but the situation stabilized and we had a really solid U-shaped line, with me holding the Southern front and the northwest front and the Belgians the short eastern line and a little of the northern line. I did one limited offensive into Northern France, and successfully pushed the Germans back a bit to grab a port and the big airfield at Calais, which I quickly filled up with planes. The Maginot line and the line in the Netherlands were both really stout, Belgium and the West part of the Netherlands including the port at Rotterdam were safe as houses and I had massive air superiority and a second offensive planned to take Paris with both my corps planning lights lit up green. This was early '42.
And then Belgium capitulated, under no threat at all. Not only that, but the Belgian divisions that had been holding part of the Netherlands and Maginot Line fronts all were suddenly enemy! My 8 divisions I had sent to shore up the Netherlands were completely cut off and no longer connected to a port, and the two corps that were ready to jump off to Paris suddenly had 10 enemy divisions on a broad front in their rear and nothing at all to stop the whole German army from pouring into the gap before I could attack those divisions and seal the hole again.
Is this WAD? Man, that was RAW.
That's really odd. The only thing I can think of that might cause this would be some kind of peace conference oddity. Did the Belgians completely capitulate, or did they get puppeted? What kind of government do they have, if any?
If the war started early, are you sure Germany started it? If France took the early confrontation route they would take a huge hit to national unity, and that could be the reason for their easy capitulation.
Thus far the only way I've seen anyone switch sides with their forces intact is if they get puppetted or liberated via a peace conference. This would be weird if Belgium was in the Allies. Did France join the Allies or go Little Entente? If they went the Entente route they would've been their own faction, that Belgium could've been a part of, and then switched sides to Axis via the peace treaty.
Countries switching sides is of course valid historically, see Italy as just one case, so it wouldn't surprise me if this was somehow WAD.
Good questions. I'll answer the ones I can. I quit the game after my crap got swallowed and, sadly, chose that moment to do a rare saved-game purge. :idiot2:
The announcement was Belgium capitulated. I'm pretty sure the new enemies that showed up in my rear where they had been were German units, as if the Belgians somehow became Germans. They were inside our prior line.
I'm pretty sure the war started the regular way, through Poland. I know I have standard historical choices turned on in the preferences, and I don't recall anything weird happening. I just joined the Allies early and came over - war had already started, and I wasn't eyeballing the area that closely before I got there. But I think I would have noticed if somebody had declared on a peaceful Germany.
I would assume historical choices meant France didn't create its own alliances. I know the Brits were there fighting in the Low Countries (as were the Swiss!) and the normal brit allies were in the coalition.
I was wondering if those countries are just pre-set to surrender to Germany at a certain point. Even if they're winning. I was really looking forward to see what an unconquered France would look like as an ally.
Good questions. I'll answer the ones I can. I quit the game after my crap got swallowed and, sadly, chose that moment to do a rare saved-game purge. :idiot2:
The announcement was Belgium capitulated. I'm pretty sure the new enemies that showed up in my rear where they had been were German units, as if the Belgians somehow became Germans. They were inside our prior line.
I'm pretty sure the war started the regular way, through Poland. I know I have standard historical choices turned on in the preferences, and I don't recall anything weird happening. I just joined the Allies early and came over - war had already started, and I wasn't eyeballing the area that closely before I got there. But I think I would have noticed if somebody had declared on a peaceful Germany.
I would assume historical choices meant France didn't create its own alliances. I know the Brits were there fighting in the Low Countries (as were the Swiss!) and the normal brit allies were in the coalition.
I was wondering if those countries are just pre-set to surrender to Germany at a certain point. Even if they're winning. I was really looking forward to see what an unconquered France would look like as an ally.
That makes it even more odd. I misunderstood that you just had an early entry as the US rather than the war had a pre-39 start. One of the scenarios that can, but often does not, occur is France forming its own faction and going to war over the Sudetenland. That scenario would be far more likely to result in what you described than the historical Danzig or War path.
The low countries won't capitulate, as far as I have seen, in any sort of automatic way. I've seen the Belgians take Berlin, and more than a few times the Netherlands and Belgium survive the entire war as well as France. In fact, in my experience, unless playing an Axis power, France and the low countries have only fallen in one game, and that was in the '39 scenario. So they can and many times will survive.
Perhaps they were being influenced by Germany and had a pro-fascist coup? I've never seen the Germans do that, and am not sure it's even possible in the engine, but it seems to be the only real way that it would work. With France and Belgium both in the Allies, there shouldn't have been a peace conference to flip loyalties until the UK capitulated, as they're the Allies leader.
I'm not sure the Axis AI would care if a country was Fascist anyway. I've seen Germany outrace its national focuses with war justifications and declare war on friendly Fascist Hungary, Romania and Nationalist Spain several times. It typically isn't in a rush to invite anyone into the faction except Italy and Japan.
Along those lines are you alone able to coordinate targets with the AI? You can and some games so you both go after the same city or enemy army etc.
Along those lines are you alone able to coordinate targets with the AI? You can and some games so you both go after the same city or enemy army etc.
Yes, check the 'see AI War Plans' box, bottom right of the screen. You can use it to plan ahead so when they launch you are with them.
It amazes me that even after many, many hours of play this game still has layers of depth I haven't realized were there. Thanks to Ian, Pete and others for pointing them out.
Question ...playing as Italy in early 1940 we (the axis) got France to capitulate however there are still regions that show as France owned in France. I thought if a country capitulates it gives up all holdings?
FYI between this and the most recent Stellaris patch almost all of my time is being taken up. Still would like more control of somethings Stellaris but both games are accessible and fun.
Question ...playing as Italy in early 1940 we (the axis) got France to capitulate however there are still regions that show as France owned in France. I thought if a country capitulates it gives up all holdings?
FYI between this and the most recent Stellaris patch almost all of my time is being taken up. Still would like more control of somethings Stellaris but both games are accessible and fun.
good question... I do not think there was a peace treaty, just a message that France capitulated.Question ...playing as Italy in early 1940 we (the axis) got France to capitulate however there are still regions that show as France owned in France. I thought if a country capitulates it gives up all holdings?
FYI between this and the most recent Stellaris patch almost all of my time is being taken up. Still would like more control of somethings Stellaris but both games are accessible and fun.
Is the war over and you had a peace conference? Or is it still ongoing?
Question ...playing as Italy in early 1940 we (the axis) got France to capitulate however there are still regions that show as France owned in France. I thought if a country capitulates it gives up all holdings?
FYI between this and the most recent Stellaris patch almost all of my time is being taken up. Still would like more control of somethings Stellaris but both games are accessible and fun.
Sounds like Germany may have taken the Vichy option. This creates a new French state in the west, but it should be allied with and controlled by the Axis.
Paid Feature: Blitz Command
The Offensive Lines in battle plans are designed to expand as a front expands and you take territory. This works fine if what you want to do is push along a broad front, but not as well when you are trying to have several orders in the same area active at once or doing encirclements or more detailed things. As long as such are a couple of provinces microing some armored divisions to do it is no big hurdle, but for bigger stuff that becomes a lot of work. So, to improve on this we are adding another tool to the battle plan toolbox for you to use: Blitz Command. A blitz command works differently in that when you activate it it remembers the area you tell it to take and will do that without readjusting its width or caring about other things getting in its way. Perfect for drawing pincer movements and encirclements!
We have also worked on the AI’s ability to identify encirclements and choke points, so even though it's easier to plan an encirclement now actually successfully pulling them off will be more difficult.
Paid Feature: Blitz Command
The Offensive Lines in battle plans are designed to expand as a front expands and you take territory. This works fine if what you want to do is push along a broad front, but not as well when you are trying to have several orders in the same area active at once or doing encirclements or more detailed things. As long as such are a couple of provinces microing some armored divisions to do it is no big hurdle, but for bigger stuff that becomes a lot of work. So, to improve on this we are adding another tool to the battle plan toolbox for you to use: Blitz Command. A blitz command works differently in that when you activate it it remembers the area you tell it to take and will do that without readjusting its width or caring about other things getting in its way. Perfect for drawing pincer movements and encirclements!
We have also worked on the AI’s ability to identify encirclements and choke points, so even though it's easier to plan an encirclement now actually successfully pulling them off will be more difficult.
I generally have no problem with Pdox's DLC policies, but something this essential really should be a free feature, not a paid one.
Paid Feature: Blitz Command
The Offensive Lines in battle plans are designed to expand as a front expands and you take territory. This works fine if what you want to do is push along a broad front, but not as well when you are trying to have several orders in the same area active at once or doing encirclements or more detailed things. As long as such are a couple of provinces microing some armored divisions to do it is no big hurdle, but for bigger stuff that becomes a lot of work. So, to improve on this we are adding another tool to the battle plan toolbox for you to use: Blitz Command. A blitz command works differently in that when you activate it it remembers the area you tell it to take and will do that without readjusting its width or caring about other things getting in its way. Perfect for drawing pincer movements and encirclements!
We have also worked on the AI’s ability to identify encirclements and choke points, so even though it's easier to plan an encirclement now actually successfully pulling them off will be more difficult.
I generally have no problem with Pdox's DLC policies, but something this essential really should be a free feature, not a paid one.
Agreed. Perhaps this is just one feature/addition among others that will be part of this DLC?
First HOI4 expansion -- "Together for Victory" -- announced:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/together-for-victory-announced.979464/ (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/together-for-victory-announced.979464/)
Gotta say, this doesn't exactly blow me away. "New National Focus trees" for Commonwealth nations seems to be the big selling point here - ? Really?
I mean, who cares about the UK and Commonwealth? We all know 'Murica won the war, with a minor assist from the Russkis (*ducks and runs out of room*) ;)
First HOI4 expansion -- "Together for Victory" -- announced:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/together-for-victory-announced.979464/ (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/together-for-victory-announced.979464/)
Gotta say, this doesn't exactly blow me away. "New National Focus trees" for Commonwealth nations seems to be the big selling point here - ? Really?
I mean, who cares about the UK and Commonwealth? We all know 'Murica won the war, with a minor assist from the Russkis (*ducks and runs out of room*) ;)
Well besides that bit of revisionist history :D this was my major concern with HoI4... That they would nickle and dime the foci.
The AI I understand is a work in progress but the diplomacy and cloak and dagger aspects need a ton of work IMO and that's what I'm looking for in a dlc.
I hope the tree for Australia will be unique. I think that will be a great exvuse t get drunk, record and try to conquer yankland
I hope the tree for Australia will be unique.
First HOI4 expansion -- "Together for Victory" -- announced:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/together-for-victory-announced.979464/ (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/together-for-victory-announced.979464/)
Gotta say, this doesn't exactly blow me away. "New National Focus trees" for Commonwealth nations seems to be the big selling point here - ? Really?
I mean, who cares about the UK and Commonwealth? We all know 'Murica won the war, with a minor assist from the Russkis (*ducks and runs out of room*) ;)
The British Commonwealth did a pretty good job at stemming the tide and keeping the soviets afloat.
I guess that's the thing that bothers me about this DLC. It doesn't seem like it's offering *essential* new content that brings HOI4 up to a new level. That's not a knock at all on the Commonwealth, it's a knock on the lack of ambition Pdox seems to be showing with this 'expansion.'
I'm surprised / disappointed to find myself in a position where I feel I could pass on the first HOI4 expansion without much loss to my game experience. Wasn't expecting that to be the case.
I guess that's the thing that bothers me about this DLC. It doesn't seem like it's offering *essential* new content that brings HOI4 up to a new level. That's not a knock at all on the Commonwealth, it's a knock on the lack of ambition Pdox seems to be showing with this 'expansion.'
I'm surprised / disappointed to find myself in a position where I feel I could pass on the first HOI4 expansion without much loss to my game experience. Wasn't expecting that to be the case.
Paradox knows that AI is, persistently and pretty much across all games, their achilles heel. It seems to me that they like to keep their AI fixes low-key and headline something else in the patch/DLC, simply because they don't like to highlight AI. So you can never really know whether the important stuff gets fixed until the patch has been out a couple of weeks and you read forum reports from the vets and the tester nerds.
I guess that's the thing that bothers me about this DLC. It doesn't seem like it's offering *essential* new content that brings HOI4 up to a new level. That's not a knock at all on the Commonwealth, it's a knock on the lack of ambition Pdox seems to be showing with this 'expansion.'
I'm surprised / disappointed to find myself in a position where I feel I could pass on the first HOI4 expansion without much loss to my game experience. Wasn't expecting that to be the case.
Continuous Focuses
With Together for Victory we introduce a new type of national focuses. These can only be taken if you have done at least 10 regular focuses first and rather than taking 70 days and giving you a rewards they instead give you different kinds of bonuses while they are active (this means you can turn them off if you are low on political power or need to do something else). The base system here will be part of the 1.3 Torch patch, while the focuses related to new mechanics in the expansion will only be available to people who get that
My own sense, from comments made around here, is that what the game most needs is massive AI upgrades. In the meantime, additional DLC is fine--although charging for what feels like such a modest update does suggest that I'm best served to wait two years until a bunch of these is bundled on sale and the AI is improved.
Just to be clear, it's not even UK forces, it's the Commonwealth forces. While Lord knows that the Aussies fought as well (probably better) man-for-man as any country in the war, it's curious to see these sorts of changes being rolled out to such minor participants. I guess I'll need to wait to see what the price point is, and what some of the additional content mentioned in the link above actually represents.
If they price this low enough, it may just be an economic recon into the "How well can this title sell DLC?" area. From a business standpoint, there's nothing to argue with there.
I'm always fascinated by how there are such extremes in expressions of our experiences with the same game. Regarding HoI4's AI one recent poster wrote: But the dismal AI just makes the game unenjoyable while another wrote: The more I play EU IV the more I am impressed with the AI. I play this game a lot and my opinion of the AI falls somewhere between the two.
I'm always fascinated by how there are such extremes in expressions of our experiences with the same game. Regarding HoI4's AI one recent poster wrote: But the dismal AI just makes the game unenjoyable while another wrote: The more I play EU IV the more I am impressed with the AI. I play this game a lot and my opinion of the AI falls somewhere between the two.
I was talking about EU IVs AI, not HOI IV, and why EU IVs AI, which is made by the same company so good. While HOI IVs AI just seems to be so damn bad.
As a side note I have checked the forums and it seem the Pacific Theater still shows no resemblance of reality in this version of HOI.
I'm always fascinated by how there are such extremes in expressions of our experiences with the same game. Regarding HoI4's AI one recent poster wrote: But the dismal AI just makes the game unenjoyable while another wrote: The more I play EU IV the more I am impressed with the AI. I play this game a lot and my opinion of the AI falls somewhere between the two.
I was talking about EU IVs AI, not HOI IV, and why EU IVs AI, which is made by the same company so good. While HOI IVs AI just seems to be so damn bad.
As a side note I have checked the forums and it seem the Pacific Theater still shows no resemblance of reality in this version of HOI.
Also -- and I'm not a programmer so this is speculation -- I have to believe that programming the AI for HOI is vastly more difficult than EU. Not saying that EU is a simple game -- it's anything but -- but the sheer number of complex things the AI in HOI has to manage is staggering. Thus I'm not surprised Pdox has struggled to create a good AI for HOI -- but I really wish they'd make improving it the priority. I frankly don't care too much about national focus trees and the other stuff this new expansion is offering. It feels like just so much window dressing -- very nice to look at, but hardly essential.
Also -- and I'm not a programmer so this is speculation -- I have to believe that programming the AI for HOI is vastly more difficult than EU. Not saying that EU is a simple game -- it's anything but -- but the sheer number of complex things the AI in HOI has to manage is staggering. Thus I'm not surprised Pdox has struggled to create a good AI for HOI -- but I really wish they'd make improving it the priority. I frankly don't care too much about national focus trees and the other stuff this new expansion is offering. It feels like just so much window dressing -- very nice to look at, but hardly essential.
Also -- and I'm not a programmer so this is speculation -- I have to believe that programming the AI for HOI is vastly more difficult than EU. Not saying that EU is a simple game -- it's anything but -- but the sheer number of complex things the AI in HOI has to manage is staggering. Thus I'm not surprised Pdox has struggled to create a good AI for HOI -- but I really wish they'd make improving it the priority. I frankly don't care too much about national focus trees and the other stuff this new expansion is offering. It feels like just so much window dressing -- very nice to look at, but hardly essential.
I have been saying this for a while now. Why put all these bells and whistles into the game, when the AI has no idea on how to utilize them. We are up to HOI IV and the Japanese still have no clue what they are doing.
I have been saying this for a while now. Why put all these bells and whistles into the game, when the AI has no idea on how to utilize them.
AI improvements #1
The other day I ran a poll on twitter and 630 people voted for us to do special smaller AI diaries, so we will be kicking this off by including the first part by @SteelVolt here, but after that he will be posting them separately up until release (next one on friday). Initially he will be going over the patch changelog step by step (the whole log will get revealed the day before release, but I figured I’d point out where the stuff is coming from already :) ), so over to him:
Hey everyone!
This time around we thought we would tell you about AI fixes and improvements by looking at some points in the changelog and go a bit deeper into what they actually mean.
First of all, working on a game like Hearts of Iron is a real adventure. So many interacting systems leads to butterfly effects all over the place, sometimes in unexpected ways. And in no other area is this more clear than AI. Fix one thing, and something else becomes a problem. I will be sharing some stories from the trenches over these diaries, And I thought I would start with one from when we were working on Sunflower. When working with the balance of units in Africa (I think we can all recall those massive wars being fought in the deserts of north Africa). Making the AI a lot less interested in sending units there did indeed make them not put all their troops there. What we saw in our hands off runs the following days was that Germany struggled really bad with taking Europe. A lot more than it had before. It turned out that when the Allies no longer cared about Africa, they would send almost all their forces immediately into France to help them push back Germany. This even included Australia.
So in a sense, I am playing a super complex game of whack-a-mole with the code.
Anyway, since this is the first of these to focus on the changelog, I thought it would be a good idea to take a look at some of the straight up bugs that has been taken care of.
- AI now attempts to recover when units are unable to reach desired front location.
It turned out that encircled AI units tended to become overly passive. This was due to them playing it too safe and not being able to find a secure path back to the main front. Expect them to fight back a bit more now.
- AI no longer ends up in strange state where they are assigned to a root order but not a following attack order.
Reassignments could sometimes lead units to get stuck not being assigned to an advancement order. Since they were not flagged as unassigned (they were, after all, assigned to the root order), and given that orders often ends up being split, this was not always evident. This would improve the AI's ability to attack in general.
- Fixed strange bug in AI order assignment that left units assigned to a group but not an order.
The underlying cause is not as related to the previous one as it may seem, and the effects were even more dire. The tricky part here is that due to how the game works internally, some actions must be resolved in a central update loop before others can be done. This means that the AI is forced to set up their stuff in steps, but due to that the last steps changes MAY be outdated, the code to manage all this easily becomes a bit hard to follow. The fixes for this in particular should make the AI behave more reliably in relation to the plans it makes.
- Made sure AI is capable of calling subjects into wars even if they are not in a faction.
Another really basic one. Turns out the AI would not even bother considering calling in countries to wars if they were not in the same faction. There are, however, countries that CAN be called into wars that do not follow this rule: puppets. While most puppets are set up as being part of factions, at least before wars happen, this slipped under the radar for quite a while. The notable exception is Japan and its early war with China.
That's it for round one, and I have to tell you I am really stoked about getting the update into your hands. If your pet peeve was not covered in this text, just relax and wait for the other ones. The next will be more about bug fixes, and after that I will go into improvements.
Next diary (that isnt about AI) will go over achievements, some UI improvements and the full patch log with changes!
And don't forget today's World War Wednesday stream starting at 16:00CET on www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive. We'll be showing you Together for Victory features and answer as many questions about the expansion as we can during the stream.
You can pre-order Together for Victory here! If you are an owner of the Expansion Pass you'll already get it (together with the next 2 expansions). Owning Together for Victory will also grant you new forum avatars and an unique icon! (actually people with just base game will also get a few new ones as of today)
AI improvements #2
Hello again!
It is already time for another AI mini diary, going into some more detail about points in the changelog for the upcoming Together for Victory update!
(To read part one, scroll to the end of the last DD, which can be found here.)
Todays story from the trenches relates to one of the seemingly basic AI features that is a hell of a lot harder than it seems; balancing the divisions between the orders. A human can do this without much thinking, given our superior pattern recognition capabilities. The AI is not as lucky, and has to do some educated guesses based on what numbers are available in a given situation. The code for doing this has grown in phases since about two years back, in some sences almost uncontrolably so due to chasing a good enough state for deadlines. After a while, what easily happens with such systems is that parts of the code "fix" problems that are no longer problems. Indeed, more than just making the code unnecessarily complicated, it can cause new bugs.
This is exactly what happened with this system. It can roughly be divided into three steps, and after some failed attempts at fixing some bugs related to it, I ended up ripping out and rewriting the entire step two, reducing the size of it by about 30%. This also meant that I could remove about 20% of step three. The result has been that the system is easier to read, debug and maintain, even though it lead to some new bugs related to the rewriting. I still see cases where the behaviour is not 100%, but the overall performance of it appears a significant improvement, and the AIs ability to recover from strange situations is a lot better.
- Fixed bug where AI would keep swapping a fighter with land equipment at the top of the list for all eternity.
If you ever observed the AI (sorry about observer mode still not being a guarantee), you may have noticed at least some countries getting stuck swapping the two top lines if they were a fighter and some land equipment. A fairly basic code booboo that has now been resolved, resulting in a positive impact to AI production.
- AI should now be capable of using rockets.
Exactly what it says. The problem here was that rocket bases, though internally represented as air bases, are kept in a separate list from the regular air bases. Just including that list when considering missions should mean AI can now use their sometimes ample supply of rockets.
- Fixed overflow that cause some countries to not build planes causing USA to end up with 0 strategic bombers.
Yet another basic one. When implementing features it is easy to just look that the standard cases, and thus miss the late game edge cases. In this case the USA wanted strategic bombers so much that the number overflowed and became a ridiculous negative number in stead.
- Made sure released AI countries don't get stuck building nothing.
Again, pretty basic. A flag was not set, and the AI was never run for released countries. But who releases a country without playing as it, anyway? ;P
That covers some more of the fixes that has been made for the AI. As before; I have more to tell you about so hold off on worrying about your favourite AI bugs ;)
Next time I will be talking about some of the improvements, though when it comes to AI the line between what is a bugfix and what is an improvement is very blurry.
The one that made me quit is when you try to use the battle planner, your lines would continually readjust themselves with units always peeling off to go from one end of the line to the other, such that you would never get the bonus for a fully-planned order. Made the battle planner useless.
The one that made me quit is when you try to use the battle planner, your lines would continually readjust themselves with units always peeling off to go from one end of the line to the other, such that you would never get the bonus for a fully-planned order. Made the battle planner useless.
Hi everyone!
It is me again; your friendly neighbourhood AI developer. Today I will move on from focusing on bugs to looking at what we consider improvements, though as I stated at the end of the last diary the line between the two is very blurry when it comes to the AI.
This is the third installment of these mini diaries, and if you missed the other you can check out #1 (scroll to the bottom of that diary) and #2 respectively.
But to kick it off I thought I would tell you yet another story from the trenches.
We often run the game hands off over nights to see how it progresses for various countries, such as how the Japan vs China conflict works out. Some months before release I found an overnight had gotten a very surprising result: Italy had annexed almost the entire Soviet Union, while Germany had completely opted out of any Soviet territories. If any country beats Soviet Union, it does certainly NOT tend to be AI Italy, so something was clearly up. Going back in the autosaves we could see that it was indeed Germany pulling the most weight in the war, so the conclusion was that something unintended was going on in the peace conference. Letting the game run through the peace conference the crazy result was easily reproduced; Italy would consistently take Soviet territory, while Germany opts out and thus pass on their war score to Italy. So the question remained: why?
After a little digging I found that the fascist peace conference AI was set up to want to take neighboring territory, but be very reluctant with non-neighboring areas. But clearly Germany must have been neighboring Soviet? Well...in a sense. They had indeed defeated Poland before taking on the Soviet Union, but they were only occupying Polands states, since Poland had joined the Allies, which had of course not yet capitulated. Since we separate ownership and control of areas, and the neighboring check looked specifically at ownership (after all, Germany was not guaranteed to get to KEEP Poland), they ended up ignoring Soviet areas as NOT connected to their own areas, while Italy had annexed Romania in an earlier war and considered their areas as connected by land to Soviets.
The peace conference AI has since been refined to avoid silliness like this, but it does serve to illustrate how you need to keep a lot of different potential situations in mind when designing and programming AI. And this is far from the most complicated systems.
Today I will introduce something brand new; my work on encriclement AI!
- AI now attempts to detect and react to many encirclement opportunities, both against itself and against enemies. Includes evacuating dangerous areas and cutting off bottlenecks.
Detecting potential encirclement situations is a really hard problem. A human, with her superior pattern recognition abilities, can take a glance at a map and point out such situations in practically no time at all. A computer, not so much. The thing is that you need to consider the relation between at least five or so provinces to detect the smallest encirclements, and for large ones the number gets really big. Computers are inherently bad at considering more than one relation at a time. While the approach for narrower bottlenecks and larger encirclement patterns is somewhat different, and particularly the latter is not 100% accurate, but where to draw the line between potential encirclement is not always clear anyway. The type of reaction varies a bit depending on the situation detected, but all in all the AI is better at countering attempts at encirclement and to try to act on opportunities they get. Though there is of course room for some improvement I must say I am quite happy with the number of situations the AI is actually able to detect with relatively few false positives. I hope this makes the game both more challenging and engaging for you!
Of course, I cannot only leave you with only one point, even if it is a big one, so I will also use this diary to talk a bit about defensive AI.
- Split up AI garrison order in two: home area and other areas.
For a country like Germany, using a single garrison order is fine. For a country like the Soviet Union or even France, they risk having units sent around the world, not doing much to help at all, just because the order mechanic is attempting to balance the units inside the order. Not to mention how strangely balanced the spread becomes due to area around the capital typically gets too few units while far away areas ends up with too many. Splitting up the order greatly improves the AIs ability to defend. The units move around less withing each order, and the AI can balance between oversea areas (or...you know...Siberia) and the area around its capital.
- AI is no longer using all types of garrison locations.
The AI can and does indeed make use of this new feature. In many situations it is a waste of units to garrison everything you possibly can. While being on the offensive, garrisoning your forts can typically be wasteful if not all ports are covered to defend against potential invasions.
And that is all for today. Next time (which is probably going to be wednesday) I intend to be talking about boats and boaty related stuff. Until then, I am getting back to work on more improvements for future updates.
"- AI now attempts to detect and react to many encirclement opportunities, both against itself and against enemies. Includes evacuating dangerous areas and cutting off bottlenecks."
I'm kind of amazed (and dismayed) that things like this are only being added to game 6+ months after release.... :(
That's a fair point, and I definitely don't underestimate just how difficult it must be to program an AI for a game as complex as HOI4. What worries me, is that Pdox may have built a beautiful, groundbreaking ww2 game that is simply beyond AI's capabilities to play effectively.
That's a fair point, and I definitely don't underestimate just how difficult it must be to program an AI for a game as complex as HOI4. What worries me, is that Pdox may have built a beautiful, groundbreaking ww2 game that is simply beyond AI's capabilities to play effectively.
That is totally fine by me because quite frankly, it is the only way someone like me will stand any chance of succeeding. If the AI actually knew what it was doing, I wouldn't stand a snow ball's chance in hell of making it past 1941.
What worries me, is that Pdox may have built a beautiful, groundbreaking ww2 game that is simply beyond AI's capabilities to play effectively.I think they've done that a number of times now ;)
Greeting friends!
This will be the last of these before the release of Together for Victory, and unless I am to write one about a hotfix, the last one for the year.
This weeks tale from the trenches will actually be about one of the points in the changelog. Sorry about cheating like this for the last diary, but it was too good to leave out:
- Scary fix makes AI actually consider all target areas of enemy, in stead of one at a time. Should set pacific area ablaze when the time comes, and keep the invasions rolling.
Wow...so...way back in development before the invasion craft tech limited the number of divisions you could use for invasions, the AI sometimes had a tendency to set up A LOT of them. As a fix for this, that did do the trick in the general case, the AI would consider ONE area per enemy for invasion at a time, before doing another one. When I say area here, it is any enemy territory with land connection to all parts of itself...shitty description, so a couple of examples: Ostpreussen is a separate area from main Germany, which is its own area, so Germany initially consists of two areas. When/if they annex Austria, it becomes part of the main German area. Similarly, every single island is its own area.
At this point, I am sure you can see at least a few problems this could cause in the pacific. My hopes were that Japan and USA would invade each other, and the invasions would be small enough to happen often enough that this would not become a problem. However...when the invasion is to an island that has had its port taken over by someone else, the AI would not be able to plan an invasion to it, and thus not make any more invasions until that area was fully conquered...which was not a guarantee.
This restriction was lifted, and the scary part of this was letting the AI be potentially a lot more active. It has turned out that the invasion craft limits and tweaks to the front balancing balances this out really well.
This is a good example of how fixes to earlier problems can cause new ones further down the line as development progresses. This happens a lot in AI, and not rarely will the same symptom pop up over and over but due to new reasons under the hood.
So, moving on with more boaty stuff:
- Added a "pacific continent" to aid in AI prio.
- Added contininent prioritization for the AI with high scores to Europe and the Pacific, but low to Africa.
Calculating the value of a larger area is expensive, and the value of locations like the pacific islands depends less on what they contain in terms of buildings and resources and more about where they are located. By introducing scriptable priority for areas, which can be modified through script on a per country bases, it is possible to tweak where countries should focus and even base this on triggers. So, merry christmas, modders :)
This is also an important part in improving the AIs pacific activity, and is an extra part of reducing their African ditto.
- AI sets up a couple of fleets to be used for special missions.
The AI tries to prioritize naval regions based on a ton of variables, and in the end may miss out on covering some important stuff. By ear marking a couple of fleets for specialized missions, such as covering invasions, the AI is now better at not getting stuck waiting for fleets that may never come before being able to invade. It also steps up its general naval game a bit.
- Made sure that AI does not completely block itself when having multiple invasion orders against the same area but being unable to cover the regions for all of them at the same time.
The naval invasion AI tries to coordinate invasions against the same area, but forcing it to do this would make it never invade if it was unable to cover all necessary regions for all the invasions at the same time. This restriction was softened, so the AI will be more capable at getting stuff done. This one was hitting Japan hard when they wanted to navally invade south.
- Made AI better at supporting naval invasions by focusing on the next one to complete preparation.
* This one might seem either cryptic or obvious. Before the AI would just pick the top invasion on a list to focus on first, now it picks the one that is next in line to be done preparing.
- Tweaked naval invasion priority to make them more inclined to take islands (particularly with air bases) and home region.
Pretty much speaks for itself, particularly in the context of the Pacific theater.
- Made AI invasions scriptably more unpredictable.
While only a define for now, it should make life more interesting in singleplayer, with less hammering of invasions in the same location over and over. Also gives modders another thing to play with :)
- Stabilized AI invasion prio scores. Should result in invasions not swapping units around as much and randomly getting canceled.
Under the hood the AI has a priority score for every orders. The invasion score was allowed to depend on variables that shifted from day to day, such as preparation level. This would cause different numbers of units to be assigned to them over time, causing some really bad behaviour. Stabilizing this score has made the invasion AI a lot more stable and reliable.
That was more or less all the work that has been done to the naval AI. The changelog had more AI points in it, some really heavy and important stuff related to AI division design among other things. I really hope you will enjoy the DLC, and even if you don't get it, I hope all these fixes will increase your enjoyment of the game. And either way, I look forward to keep improving the HoI4 AI, and you can all look forward to more improvements being done.
I can confirm that Japanese AI is now invading in the Pacific.
Started playing as UK in '39 and Japan joined the Axis and got roped into the war early. They are now invading the Gilbert isles in the Pacific...
Is this with the DLC, or just the update/patch?
But my sense (over 200 hrs played!) is that HOI4's AI is simply a push-over. I didn't feel that way about HOI3. I knew I could always beat HOI3, but AI was just challenging enough to keep it interesting. HOI4's AI seems like 3's stupider cousin. :uglystupid2:
People dont seem to be happy with it. Its getting mixed on steam