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IRL (In Real Life) => Music, TV, Movies => Topic started by: Destraex on June 09, 2019, 03:31:35 AM

Title: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Destraex on June 09, 2019, 03:31:35 AM
Looking forward to this movie, the original midway movie is also ok. But my mind is spinning with what they may be able to pull off in terms of historical numbers and accurate ship models in this remake. TORA TORA TORA is one of my all time favourites. But Pearly Harbour was definitely not on my list although I did enjoy it at the movies at the time because it was a good cross of chick flick with some big boys toys in it.

Will I be disappointed? Most likely. PLEASE no love stories to break up and take away from any budget for the carrier scenes. November 8 th is not long to wait. (hey that rhymes).
(https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8xOTU4Mzg2MC85ODB4LmpwZyIsImV4cGlyZXNfYXQiOjE1NjA2NzUxOTl9.XYZ75vzXZCGaZFrAcJuGJ-15GowjAfwB9l0Ikvy2xMI/img.jpg)
https://taskandpurpose.com/midway-movie-roland-emmerich-interview?fbclid=IwAR2h_eZuzh4A-5NwCk6zYgQUBIWmd7lUNHQXgvz-
Ech8S1eTE1ZsWThOzeI
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Staggerwing on June 09, 2019, 05:21:22 AM


Hmm... Roland Emmerich...  ???
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: The_Admiral on June 09, 2019, 07:35:00 AM
I know they have been asking for actual, good advice from the right people (aka the Midway roundtable). Fingers crossed.
Maybe R. Emmerich is like me, he just wanted eventually to do what he likes best and kept it for the end.

In the meantime I'll make my own sort of movie ^^
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Con on June 09, 2019, 10:38:07 AM
Does it involve monkeys a long piece of string and rubber masks with zippers for mouths?
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on June 09, 2019, 11:07:36 AM
Maybe this will be equivalent to Michael Bay's 13 Hours.

That doesn't seem inherently probable. But neither did Michael Bay making 13 Hours.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on June 09, 2019, 12:35:41 PM
Please don’t be like Pearl Harbor (the movie)
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: DoctorQuest on June 09, 2019, 04:02:27 PM
Is it going to use Sensurround sound technology?
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on June 09, 2019, 09:37:33 PM
Better NOT have Will Smith chewing a cigar and shouting, "Dats what I'm TALKIN' Bout" to the Japanese Navy.   :pullhair:
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on June 09, 2019, 10:41:49 PM
Better NOT have Will Smith chewing a cigar and shouting, "Dats what I'm TALKIN' Bout" to the Japanese Navy.   :pullhair:

Indeed.  It'd better have Woody Harrelson do it instead.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: em2nought on June 10, 2019, 12:21:24 AM
I haven't found CGI to be better than real warplanes on film ever.  Even if they're only converted T6 Texans.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on June 10, 2019, 03:08:40 PM
I'm looking forward to the CGI power sliding Wildcats, and Zeroes being tricked into slamming into each other in massive fireballs of Red White and Blue glory. 

Hopefully they'll have George Gay take out a few Japanese planes while floating in his life vest and dual wielding .45's.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on June 10, 2019, 03:19:00 PM
Could be worse.  This just popped up on my YouTube recommendations list.

What heroic line delivery!  Holy over-emote!!!!


Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on June 10, 2019, 04:40:09 PM
Holy Green Screens Batman!
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Michael Dorosh on June 10, 2019, 04:47:56 PM
I haven't found CGI to be better than real warplanes on film ever.  Even if they're only converted T6 Texans.

They always make the mistake of throwing in wild camera angles that are impossible in real life. If they did the CGI to look like a camera ship was flying with them, it would be soooo much better. But it's a crutch now, like super slo-mo shots of people jumping up and dodging bullets in mid-air.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on June 10, 2019, 04:48:31 PM
oy vey
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on June 10, 2019, 05:35:48 PM
Since it's Emmerich I'm really hoping for some Foo Fighters and a Godzilla.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Staggerwing on June 10, 2019, 05:57:26 PM
Since it's Emmerich I'm really hoping for some Foo Fighters and a Godzilla.

Or an I-400 that can extend undersized airfoils and fly
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on June 27, 2019, 06:16:49 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7189321/Midway-LOOK-Explosive-trailer-sees-Nick-Jonas-Mandy-Moore-swept-Pacific-battle.html

At last.  Dick Best gets some respect.
This article, for a british newspaper, does have some gaffs.  For one they think Bruno Gaido is a made up character.  IIRC, he was tied to a concrete canister on a jap DD and thrown overboard to drown.  Wonder if they include that.
Also, not sure if Woody Harrelson is the best choice for Nimitz.  Woody will always be that lightweight bartender in Cheers for me.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on June 27, 2019, 06:44:11 PM
That reminds me a lot more of Pearl Harbor than Dunkirk.   

 :hide:
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on June 27, 2019, 08:18:32 PM
Woody Nimitz? What could go wrong there? "Gee Mr. Claven, should we send another aircraft carrier or is two enough"?  :2funny:
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: solops on June 27, 2019, 09:32:49 PM
Oooooooooooo! I wonder if the Japanese will win this time?
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Toonces on June 27, 2019, 09:35:56 PM
Late to this thread.

Dunkirk was pretty awesome.

This movie...uh, I think I'm gonna wait to catch this on Netflix.  Sigh.

(My wife hated Dunkirk; I loved it.  This movie looks like something my wife would love.  'Nuff said.)
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on June 27, 2019, 09:44:43 PM
Late to this thread.

Dunkirk was pretty awesome.

This movie...uh, I think I'm gonna wait to catch this on Netflix.  Sigh.

(My wife hated Dunkirk; I loved it.  This movie looks like something my wife would love.  'Nuff said.)

Pretty much this.  My wife actually loved Dunkirk, but she's married to me and has known me since I was 19, so she's heard me wax on about the subject of military history longer than a lot of people that see these movies have been alive.

And yeah, there's just so much noise in this preview.  ACTION IN YOUR FACE RIGHT NOW!

I know that's exciting, but I prefer the subtle and really at times aggressive realism of something like Dunkirk, or Tora Tora Tora.

I honestly think the two latter films prove that you can make a great and accurate war movie that doesn't just try to make history into a superhero movie.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on June 28, 2019, 08:10:46 AM

I honestly think the two latter films prove that you can make a great and accurate war movie that doesn't just try to make history into a superhero movie.

Are you telling me that Captain America defeating the Red Skull did not win the war in Europe?
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on June 28, 2019, 08:20:36 AM
Tora Tora Tora - I love that movie.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on June 28, 2019, 10:11:13 AM
That was a movie? I had an old girlfriend that used to scream that while I was making love to her.  :o  Who knew?
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on June 28, 2019, 10:57:01 AM
"Climb Mount Niitaka!" on the other hand would have meant that total surprise had been achieved.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on June 28, 2019, 11:12:06 AM
<Keanu>
whoa
<Keanu>
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on June 28, 2019, 01:07:45 PM
Meanwhile, 'Wee Wang' is not a good one. Just saying.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on June 28, 2019, 03:28:09 PM

Are you telling me that Captain America defeating the Red Skull did not win the war in Europe?

I would never claim such a thing, because we both know it did!
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Destraex on July 10, 2019, 12:39:21 AM
Michael I agree that to make it feel realistic they are better off just keeping away from nauseating camera angles that are physics poor.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on August 16, 2019, 05:38:01 PM
In the new trailer, the planes look good, but a lot of other things seem half baked.
And Judd Nelson?  The Breakfast Club goes to Midway?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnrL47mdOTg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR24C2F6yIiuu-LBevdtIpQEI9MMNZjy9bktP3swEH_2kjOehTNl-lMQ3YA
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Staggerwing on August 16, 2019, 08:13:19 PM
That looks to be a different movie, "Dauntless".
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: MrsWargamer on August 16, 2019, 08:54:37 PM
I'm going to barf.

A. that's no remake, it's a tragedy if it is anything at all.
It appears to be a movie about two dudes shot down during a battle called Midway.

B. no apparent mention of all the brave lads who were massacred in the torpedo planes who dragged down all the Jap fighter cover such that the late-arriving Dauntlesses has a field day slaughtering the carriers.

C. no apparent mention of the Island.

I repeat, that trailer makes me want to puke.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on August 16, 2019, 10:01:05 PM
That looks to be a different movie, "Dauntless".

Yeah, that's the trailer for the newly renamed "Dauntless: The Battle for Midway", not "Midway".  Looks to be a very low budget direct to DVD copycat by a small indie studio, probably hoping for a bit of brand confusion based on the rename.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Staggerwing on August 17, 2019, 05:37:45 AM
That looks to be a different movie, "Dauntless".

Yeah, that's the trailer for the newly renamed "Dauntless: The Battle for Midway", not "Midway".  Looks to be a very low budget direct to DVD copycat by a small indie studio, probably hoping for a bit of brand confusion based on the rename.

Maybe they should have called it "Behind Enemy Lines: Granddad, tell that story again, please?"
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: bbmike on August 17, 2019, 06:43:35 AM
Ace Combat™ 7 Skies Unknown: The Motion Picture
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on August 17, 2019, 02:59:07 PM
‘Midway: Between Reality and Fiction’
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: steve58 on August 17, 2019, 03:10:44 PM
That looks to be a different movie, "Dauntless".

Yeah, that's the trailer for the newly renamed "Dauntless: The Battle for Midway", not "Midway".  Looks to be a very low budget direct to DVD copycat by a small indie studio, probably hoping for a bit of brand confusion based on the rename.

FAKE NEWS MOVIE!
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on August 17, 2019, 05:52:30 PM

Maybe they should have called it "Behind Enemy Lines: Granddad, tell that story again, please?"

This time with extra green screens!
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on August 17, 2019, 08:03:33 PM
Some of the stuff in that trailer I'm familiar with.  I've read more than a half dozen books on Midway. 

Some of the carriers launched at extreme range and the pilots knew it.  There was a lot of agonizing about turning on the lights - I'm sure the movie will exaggerate it.

There was a very famous writeup of a torpedo pilot who watched much of the battle from the ocean.

I think this is a trailer for a different movie than the November Midway release.

After all, it can't be as bad as Flyboys.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on August 17, 2019, 10:09:44 PM
Some of the stuff in that trailer I'm familiar with.  I've read more than a half dozen books on Midway. 

Some of the carriers launched at extreme range and the pilots knew it.  There was a lot of agonizing about turning on the lights - I'm sure the movie will exaggerate it.

There was a very famous writeup of a torpedo pilot who watched much of the battle from the ocean.

I think this is a trailer for a different movie than the November Midway release.

After all, it can't be as bad as Flyboys.

Yes, George Gay, he was a survivor of the doomed Devastator strike.   He survived and watched the later Dauntless strike hit home and wreck the Japanese strike force.

As has been said, the Dauntless movie is a trailer for a totally different film from the "EXPLOSION USA USA USA" film that Emmerich is making.   It's a green screened, low budget movie that's taking George Gay's story and applying it to some Dauntless pilots.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: The_Admiral on August 17, 2019, 11:34:30 PM
That looks to be a different movie, "Dauntless".

Yeah, that's the trailer for the newly renamed "Dauntless: The Battle for Midway", not "Midway".  Looks to be a very low budget direct to DVD copycat by a small indie studio, probably hoping for a bit of brand confusion based on the rename.

If I may  :)
From everything I know and I have seen of Dauntless, it is shaping up as an acceptable product - time will tell. But in all honesty they were there much earlier already (as you can see the trailer indicated April, at that time we hardly even had seen a shot of the Emmerich movie). They might have renamed it to get more traction, as the original title(simply "Dauntless") certainly wasn't as telling as the new one. It is true that they are trying to surf on the buzz created by the Emmerich movie with this new label, but they are a work in their own right - nobody owns exclusive rights to a battle, after all.

Actually, in a few aspects, the CGI and especially the models are not that bad, and our 3D artist finds them more accurate than the ones used in the "big" Midway. Production value might not be sky-high, it might look a bit generic, but it is definitely on my "to watch" list.

MrsWargamer is right in that it is more of a survivor story than a movie about the actual battle (a bit like Against the Sun was to the TBD I suppose), but so far the combat shots, especially about the Japanese fleet, are way more accurate than what can be seen in Emmerich's Midway, and are a good sign about the telling amount of research which apparently went there. I would refrain from puking too much early on, or I would hate to imagine the kind trauma we might eventually go through when experiencing the Emmerich version :)

Quote
It's a green screened, low budget movie that's taking George Gay's story and applying it to some Dauntless pilots.
We don't really need to summon the ghost of George Gay here actually - SBD crews going in the drink were aplenty immediately after the initial strike, on the way home to TF16 and TF17. From what I could gather the protagonist crew will get into the water after the strikes and away from the Japanese force.

But I think you're not far from the truth - to me it looks they might actually borrow the story from yet another TBD crew, that time from VT6, that of number 8. The Facebook account keeping VS6 "Dusty" Kleiss' memory alive has just finished a series of accounts regarding VT6, and here's the story they posted about the last crew to ever be recovered from the battle (there's no other place you could have that btw, I have just searched my books and the internet for this story for a whooping 45mn as I had forgotten where I had first seen it...):

Quote
The Last Flight of Torpedo Squadron Six, Part 11:

At the end of the engagement on June 4, one TBD crashed into the sea. Badly damaged in the attack on Kido Butai, 6-T-8 (Bu. No. 0367) piloted by MACH Albert Waldo Winchell and crewed by RM 3/c Douglas Marvin Cossitt had to ditch. The plane had been leaking gas for miles and it had no chance to make it back.

Rear seat gunner Cossitt had been wounded, hit by shrapnel from a .20 mm shell. The shrapnel pierced his legs in 18 places. Somehow, he inflated the life raft and secured the plane's emergency rations. For days, Winchell and Cossitt sat on their raft, hoping for rescue.

Every day, sharks came by, trying to feast on them. Cossitt recalled, "We fought them off with an 8'' Bowie knife and our aluminum oars. One time Walt cut one bad enough to make him bleed. The biggest damn fight you ever saw took place about 20 yards from our boat! The other sharks jumped the one [that] Walt wounded."

On day twelve, a Japanese submarine surfaced nearby and closed to within 50 feet of Winchell and Cossitt's raft. As Cossitt remembered, "Walt just sat down and we waited for the end. We were sure they would either take us prisoners or shoot us in the boat." Then, without warning, the submarine submerged, leaving the sea to kill them. Cossitt believed the Japanese crew tried to use the castaway aviators as bait, hoping that a warship might come to their rescue. "Regardless of their reason," remembered Cossitt, "we were damn glad to see them go."

On day seventeen, a hot, windless day, both VT-6 survivors admitted privately to themselves (but not to each other) that they couldn't last more than a day or two at most. But then, providentially, a PBY appeared above. "Our eyes were so sunburned," recalled Cossitt, "the plane was only a blur."

When Cossitt was picked up by the crew of the PBY, he weighed only 118 pounds. It took him ten years to reclaim his original weight of 185 pounds. As the PBY flew back to Midway--300 miles away--the crew informed Winchell and Cossitt that the Battle of Midway had been won by the Americans. This was the first the two aviators knew of the victory. Cossitt remembered, "And it was going to be many days and weeks before we were to find out the cost that the torpedo squadrons from Enterprise, Yorktown, and Hornet [had] paid."

Truly, even the exciting moment of rescue transformed into a sad reality for Cossitt. Until the end of his life, he never forgot that memorable day, June 4, 1942.

In this image, Douglas M. Cossitt--one of the ten survivors of VT-6's morning attack--is standing at right. The man next to him is another aviator, one who had been rescued from the Battle of the Coral Sea.

Btw a great Facebook page to follow if you're into 1942 Carrier stuff
https://www.facebook.com/NeverCallMeAHero/photos/a.1034771733290546/1976096839158026/?type=3&permPage=1
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on October 16, 2019, 08:27:53 PM
There is now an actual second trailer for the film...and yeah my hopes are not very high. 

Looks like Pearl Harbor 2: PEARL HARDER!

Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2019, 11:27:07 PM
CGI is downright shocking and I'm not surprised (Independence Day and The Day After Tomorrow!!)

I'll watch - but only out of curiosity.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: LoganismyHERO on October 17, 2019, 07:59:01 AM
I'd go see it just for the prudy graphics. This movie isn't meant to be an academy award winner folks. Enjoy it for what it is, or don't.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on October 17, 2019, 08:07:18 AM
Looks like Pearl Harbor 2: PEARL HARDER!

As long as it isn't made by the South Park guys, I am willing to accept this.  O0 Bay's PH was meant to be a 1940s melodrama with updated effects, not a remake of Tora Tora Tora (though I would have preferred that, too.)

I do however look forward to the AMERICA, F-K YEAH videos.  :D
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on October 17, 2019, 08:30:57 AM
I wonder if this new version of the battle will allow the Americans to win? Or will Halsey and Yamamoto meet at a neutral location and negotiate peace, then sink both their fleets to make reefs for the whales to live in.  :dreamer:
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on October 17, 2019, 10:32:53 AM
I wonder if this new version of the battle will allow the Americans to win? Or will Halsey and Yamamoto meet at a neutral location and negotiate peace, then sink both their fleets to make reefs for the whales to live in China to claim the ocean with by building small bases on them.  :dreamer:

Have to think of the Chinese market nowadays.  >:D
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on October 17, 2019, 02:01:32 PM
Halsey? Halsey wasn't even at Midway, but why let reality stand in the way of entertainment I say.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 01, 2019, 10:28:07 PM
Opens in a week.  Hope it does not suck. 

I have the original on DVD if it does.   :bd:
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 04, 2019, 10:50:49 AM
TTT was a great consolation to Bay's Pearl Harbor (though that film has grown on me once I adjusted my expectations for what it was supposed to be).

Also I picked up a really nice Pearl Harbor documentary released around the time of Bay's film (or possibly re-released; I've watched it a few times and recall it being an older production, perhaps even dating back to TTT or before). It goes through several episodes into a ton of contextual material for the attack.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 04, 2019, 11:19:34 AM
This production definitely reeks of The Suck.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 04, 2019, 04:48:46 PM
Now that I'm home, that doc's name was Attack on Pearl Harbor: Day of Infamy. It includes a single, shorter doc on the attack itself, iirc, but aside from the footage I wasn't as impressed with that one.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 06, 2019, 07:39:46 AM
3 days before release and next to no reviews up - almost always a very, very bad sign.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Pete Dero on November 06, 2019, 08:16:46 AM
Today my local newspaper rated it 1 out of 5.

Google translation from Dutch :

Now that entire sea battle - which was also carried in the air - was filmed by Roland Emmerich, the captain of the disaster film. The man who blew up the White House in Independence Day puts in the necessary pathos and patriotism. "Are we going after the japs, Sir?" "Yeah, we're gonna smoke' m to death. ".

For 100 million dollars you can buy a lot, but apparently no good flying scenes. Who wants to know why Christopher Nolan really wanted to fly around in Dunkirk with airplanes, should see how ridiculously the computer work is doing here.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on November 09, 2019, 05:56:42 AM
A veteran who knew Dick Best had this to say:

 In the LA Times review today, the character of Dick Best (the most important one in the story, at least in history), describes him as:

"Hot dog pilot Dick Best, a gum-chewer from New Jersey whose gifts as an aviator are overshadowed by a hot-headed desire to throw caution about the Japanese to the winds and "put a 500 pound bomb down their smokestack" - this when he's aboard Enterprise on December 7, 1941 and learns the Japanese are attacking Pearl Harbor.

The review continues: "While Best, aided by his wife Ann has to learn to moderate his temper to become a better leader of men..."

BULL-FUCKING-SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I knew Dick Best over the last ten years of his life, and I talked to several people who had known him "back in the day," and none of that Hollywood Horseshit above has the slightest anything to do with the reality of the man.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 09, 2019, 10:04:06 AM
Thus far, the people who went to see Midway liked it.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Grim.Reaper on November 09, 2019, 10:23:05 AM
Saw it yesterday, watchable but nothing special
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Martok on November 09, 2019, 12:14:25 PM
watchable but nothing special

This seems to be the overall verdict of the movie so far. 

Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 09, 2019, 01:13:17 PM
'Watchable but nothing special' is already head and shoulders above 2001's Pearl Harbor.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: ArizonaTank on November 09, 2019, 04:01:42 PM
I liked it...the wife loved it...and she usually doesn't like war movies.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 09, 2019, 04:45:43 PM
Bro and I took Dad to see it today for Veteran's Day weekend. His dad crewed a PT Boat at Midway to retrieve airmen shot down near the island. (Dad himself is a Vietnam Navy vet, and noted with some amusement that in his day there were nets around the edge of aircraft carrier decks to catch people dumb enough to walk so close to the edge as the guy in the first long shot of Enterprise. ;) )

We liked the film overall. In regard to the description about Best's temper, that review is wrong -- he isn't shown having a temper at all, only an eagerness to dive-bomb the enemy in his dive-bomber (as might be expected from a dive bomber pilot), and to do crazy things while practicing in case he has to do them in battle someday.

Maybe the portrayal of being a hot-dog Stuka ace (so to speak) eager to mix up with the enemy from the beginning is wrong, although if so the writers picked it up from his medal citation which reads in part that he earned it for having utter disregard for his personal safety -- i.e. during his attacks on the carriers -- and so decided to read that back into his portrayal for drama's sake? His recklessness is portrayed in the film as the reason why he wasn't promoted to XO of his air group earlier.

There is very much less goofy 1940s film drama than in Bay's Harbor.

There's a lot of action: all the money is up there on screen. The Pearl Harbor attack is shown, plus the raids on the Marshall Islands and Doolittle's Tokyo raid (which is given its own extended subplot focusing on Aaron Eckhardt as Doolittle).


I had totally forgotten that the Yamato served as Yamamoto's flagship at Midway -- or was even in service by then (apparently because it received a total refit and relaunch which gave Americans the impression it was a new ship in 1944). So when I saw it in the film my brain kept saying, "Wait, is that the Yamato?" and "No, duh, that can't be." Then in the credits I happened to see officer-characters credited as "deck officer(Yamato)" like "deck officer(Enterprise)". So I checked when I got home.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 09, 2019, 05:59:23 PM
Were you in the Navy, Pratt?
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 09, 2019, 09:34:28 PM
Nope! I'm only a post-Navy brat.  >:D

Dad married Mom when his tour was up; I came along a few years later. The admiral of his carrier group wanted to sponsor him to be a mustang: go to Annapolis and train to be an officer, so he could come back to the carrier and get a Commander rank on copter maintenance. But Dad mustered out instead to marry Mom.

Much later we learned he had picked up heart disease from Agent Orange exposure, while flying door crew for special op resupply missions to the Green Berets out training the Montagnards. The US wasn't supposed to be in-country yet, so the missions were super-secret. So super-secret that the Navy has no idea whether the records were destroyed later in a flood or in a fire!  :crazy2: (We suspect those records were destroyed in a furnace, so technically a 'fire'. ;) )

Bro took the granddaughters to tour Dad's carrier in San Diego earlier this year; we have an adorable shot of them sitting at the 'ouija board' for the deck boss!  :smitten: Dad wasn't on the carrier a lot; his chopper crew got transferred around a lot, ultimately to the USS Mars experimental supply ship.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 09, 2019, 09:55:12 PM
Read an interesting article about how the film was 45% financed by Starlight Productions, a company backed by the Zhongcai Capital Fund.    The Chinese essentially wanted a big budget, old school explosion flick that required also showing events like Pearl Harbor and The Doolittle Raid, so they could showcase Japanese underhandedness and point out the help the Chinese Communists gave to the Doolittle Bombers (apparently there's an extensive post credit exposition that concentrates on Doolittle for China). 

Having the Japanese suffer their worst military defeat on screen at the hands of their now ally Americans was a bonus for Chinese audiences. 

Apparently the only changes to the Chinese release will be the removal of scenes of Americans being insubordinate, as China does not want anyone to show displays of disagreement with the government on screen. 

Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2019, 05:41:52 AM
I liked it...the wife loved it...and she usually doesn't like war movies.
Is it a war movie or a romance? And are there any ridiculous flying manoeuvres like there was in Red Tails?
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Grim.Reaper on November 10, 2019, 05:46:18 AM
No romance, totally a war movie from start to finish.  Some of the flying and graphics seem a bit over the top to me (not a flight expert so can't fully comment), but didn't take away from the experience.  Movie was a little over 2 hours long and the time went by fast which is always a good sign for me.  As said before, no regrets in seeing it but certainly is not a "classic" to me and maybe I would watch it one more time when it comes out on my satellite provider.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 10, 2019, 06:58:29 AM
Read an interesting article about how the film was 45% financed by Starlight Productions, a company backed by the Zhongcai Capital Fund.    The Chinese essentially wanted a big budget, old school explosion flick that required also showing events like Pearl Harbor and The Doolittle Raid, so they could showcase Japanese underhandedness and point out the help the Chinese Communists gave to the Doolittle Bombers (apparently there's an extensive post credit exposition that concentrates on Doolittle for China). 

Having the Japanese suffer their worst military defeat on screen at the hands of their now ally Americans was a bonus for Chinese audiences. 

Apparently the only changes to the Chinese release will be the removal of scenes of Americans being insubordinate, as China does not want anyone to show displays of disagreement with the government on screen.

China is either the biggest or second largest box office in the world.  The Chinese go to movies that show Japanese defeats.  Chinese money was also behind Hacksaw Ridge - another WW2 movie focusing on the US vs. Japan.

China has had swarms of TV movies about WW2 fights versus Japan.

US movie firms would not back Midway for all sorts of reasons including the inability to do a sequel.  Hard to do "Midway 3 - revenge of Thanos." 
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: solops on November 10, 2019, 08:55:51 AM
Wait, wait, wait! This is all wrong. The GERMANS bombed Pearl Harbor in a false-flag operation (Stukas, ya know), causing the Americans to unleash the fruits of Alamagordo (Godzilla) on Tokyo. The vengeful Japanese then invaded Normandy but were driven back by the French under von Manstein. This is all documented in the splendid academic documentary movie 'Animal House' and confirmed by the House Intelligence Committee.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Staggerwing on November 10, 2019, 09:21:40 AM
You forgot to mention the well-documented incident of time traveling Afrikaners distributing 40-watt plasma rifles to the Waffen-SS.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 10, 2019, 12:26:06 PM
The Doolittle subplot doesn't mention that the Chinese are communists in any way, though maybe that's in the Chinese release. The pre-credit epilogue talking about what happened to everyone, has a special entry for the Chinese schoolteacher who was captured, beaten, and then presumably executed when Doolittle's lighter is found in his house; with a note that the Japanese slew two hundred thousand Chinese as punishment for them helping the Doolittle Raiders. (It also notes that the final Raider died earlier this year, 2019.)

I liked it...the wife loved it...and she usually doesn't like war movies.
Is it a war movie or a romance? And are there any ridiculous flying manoeuvres like there was in Red Tails?

To be a little more specific, no one courts anyone on screen, and there's no love triangle. Several characters are happily married, although the war naturally causes some stress with this in various ways; and in that sense there's some romance.

I haven't seen Red Tails yet, but the movie does open with Best making a very steep diving crash-land onto the Enterprise, cutting out his engine and simulating various other problems, for practice. This might count, and as you would expect by 'dramatic logic' it does get brought back up at the finale although the film doesn't dwell on it. Otherwise, it's a film about dive bombers. They shoot down a few enemies but mostly with the tail gun, and the few front-gun kills are in a head-to-head split-second defense. The dive-bombers don't dogfight Japanese Zeroes. And American casualty rates are super-high.

There's nothing on par with two Mustangs playing chicken with each other to cause Zeroes to crash. ;) (Come to think of it, I realize American fighters must have been in the film but they sure don't get much attention!)
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 10, 2019, 12:54:01 PM
The Doolittle subplot doesn't mention that the Chinese are communists in any way, though maybe that's in the Chinese release.


I don't think the movie has to spell it out for it to be read that way by a Chinese audience.   There's been a lot of public revisionism in China to increase the role of the Communists over the KMT in the war.  From a media perspective in China there is no China but the People's Republic.

The civilians that rescued the Doolittle raiders were in KMT territory as far as I remember so it's good there's no overt mention either way. 

I'm getting more interested in seeing this after the positive public response.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Tripoli on November 10, 2019, 02:04:30 PM
,,,
There's nothing on par with two Mustangs playing chicken with each other to cause Zeroes to crash. ;) (Come to think of it, I realize American fighters must have been in the film but they sure don't get much attention!)

While ramming generally isn't an accepted air defense tactic, it could be effective in a Dauntless against the lightly-built Japanese Zero.  In one encounter with Zeros in May 1942, Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa was attacked by three A6M2 Zero fighters.  He shot down two of them and cut off the wing of the third with his wingtip in a head-on pass .  See https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3qhcjy at the 1:44 mark.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 10, 2019, 02:46:44 PM
Your Dad had some career Pratt! Really interesting.

Because of this thread I will watch Midway now. Not at the theater though, because I hate people.

In the comfort of on-demand.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Staggerwing on November 10, 2019, 02:52:04 PM
,,,
There's nothing on par with two Mustangs playing chicken with each other to cause Zeroes to crash. ;) (Come to think of it, I realize American fighters must have been in the film but they sure don't get much attention!)

While ramming generally isn't an accepted air defense tactic, it could be effective in a Dauntless against the lightly-built Japanese Zero.  In one encounter with Zeros in May 1942, Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa was attacked by three A6M2 Zero fighters.  He shot down two of them and cut off the wing of the third with his wingtip in a head-on pass .  See https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3qhcjy at the 1:44 mark.

Yeah, it's been probably said already but the SBD is the only bomber of WW2 to have a greater than 1:1 air to air kill ratio (actually about 3:1). With all but the first SBD-2s having two 50 cals in the nose they were even occasionally used for combat air patrols.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 10, 2019, 03:41:37 PM
What was amazing to me the first time I saw a Dauntless (and an F4F Wildcat) were how tiny they were.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: RedArgo on November 10, 2019, 06:12:38 PM
Saw the movie this afternoon with one of my sons, didn't have high expectations, but we both really liked it.  It surely has some Hollywood moments, but they do a good job of generally sticking to the real story and making it entertaining.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Tripoli on November 10, 2019, 06:45:57 PM
What was amazing to me the first time I saw a Dauntless (and an F4F Wildcat) were how tiny they were.
Yep, they are small compared to modern aircraft.  The Dauntless as also deliberately made as small as possible because it didn't have folding wings.  That decision was made in order to make the airframe as strong as possible to withstand the g-forces from pulling out of a dive bomb attack.  But because it didn't have folding wings, it would take up a lot of deck space, thereby limiting the size of the embarked airwing on a carrier.  So, to minimize that, Heinemann designed the SBD to be as small as possible.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 10, 2019, 07:13:50 PM
I rewatched the 1976 Midway movie this evening.  It starts out with the Doolittle raid.  Coral Sea is talked about, but not shown on camera.  A lot of the footage was WW2 combat footage.  The big flaw with the 1976 Midway was the unnecessary and irritating romance between an F4F pilot and a Japanese girl who is interned with her parents.  Fortunately, with DVD you can zip right through all of that.

Tom Sellick has a bit part (forgotten all about that) and Eric Estrada (CHiPS) has a minor role. 
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 10, 2019, 08:00:08 PM
I honestly never liked Midway '76.   

It's a poor man's Tora Tora Tora. 

Mifune, Fonda and Holbrook are highlights though.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2019, 11:25:52 PM
I'm going to see it based on you boys feedback - but I have to say I am very, very disappointed with the cartoon CGI in the trailer. WTF is going on with CGI nowadays. There's really no excuse for bad CGI in films now...they've perfected it.

I'm glad it appears to be not as bad as the trailer shows it to be - and I'll give some feedback when I've been
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on November 11, 2019, 05:17:57 AM
After listening to all the discussion, the historical people, will find things to be disappointed in.  Corners were cut, and personalities misrepresented.
However, for the vast majority of people, who have no idea that there was a Battle at Midway, this is a great spectacle.
It draws them in, and may be a gateway for the more thoughtful ones.  This may get their curiousity aroused to dig down and learn more of Midway and World War II.
I never expect Hollywood to be very accurate, they are selling entertainment.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 11, 2019, 06:55:37 AM
I didn't think it was bad CGI at all, and I had that impression from the trailer, too. Possibly it was unfinished, but I suspect the impression came from a lot of the trailer showing dive bombing and flying into gunfire at various angles so it looks sparkly and fireworkish.

Then again, I play a lot of computer games, so it isn't hard to clear my bar for cut-scenes and quick-time events.  >:D
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 11, 2019, 06:57:39 AM
There are a bunch of little details I hadn't noticed often in prior naval movies either, like everyone with binoculars has cheescloth or a shammy or something like that between the binocs and their hands. Not so important on a set, but kind of important out where you might get spray on your binocs.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 11, 2019, 10:47:43 AM
There...there are people out there who don't know there was a battle at Midway?

Don't answer.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 11, 2019, 01:05:25 PM
Based on a poll I recall being made back around 2008 or 2010, 20 to 25% of British citizens under 30 think Winston Churchill is a fictional character. And Montgomery, iirc.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 11, 2019, 01:19:52 PM
There...there are people out there who don't know there was a battle at Midway?

Don't answer.

Gus, I taught History for almost 20 years.   I could tell you stories of what people don't know, kids and adults, that would make you cry, literally cry.  There's a reason I switched careers upon hitting middle age.

Yes, there are people that don't know there was a Battle of Midway.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 11, 2019, 01:27:25 PM
^I knew I liked you. I also taught history and social studies for a few years.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 11, 2019, 01:34:51 PM
^I knew I liked you. I also taught history and social studies for a few years.

Then you know the pain of writing "Europe is not a country, it is a continent.  Austria and Australia are not the same."  in huge letters on a white board and making a class stare at it for 45 minutes as a lesson.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 11, 2019, 01:41:55 PM
Sadly, yes. But I also met some very bright kids too. I taught junior high and high school kids.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 11, 2019, 01:58:14 PM
I had a lot of bright kids too, a few became great adults.  I was very happy to teach my AP class during the day when I had one. 

I taught 10th and 12th for most of my time, but the last few years after we relocated back to Alabama I was teaching 6th, and it really wasn't for me.   That and dealing with the state curriculum was enough to drive me out.

I always hope movies like Midway are passably accurate and decent, just because it does a lot to get younger people interested.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 11, 2019, 03:10:25 PM
I taught 10th and 12th too for a time! Finance (HA!). Also junior high school (in NY that's 7-9 grade).
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on November 11, 2019, 05:38:34 PM
Wait a minute! You mean Austria and Australia are NOT the same place?  :o  I bet that explains why that kangaroo I thought I bought in that pet shop in Vienna turned out to be a Doberman that could set-up on it's back legs.  :tickedoff:  I WONDERED why she tried to bite me every time I tried to find her pouch.  #:-)
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 11, 2019, 05:54:50 PM
 :2funny:

Yeah, they're not.   

That "Lesson" day was earned after particularly bad identification short answers on a test covering the lead up to the 30 Years War.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on November 11, 2019, 10:11:13 PM
How did you ever handle Georgia the state and Georgia the country?  :hide:
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on November 12, 2019, 06:59:31 AM
Jon Parshall, author of Shattered Sword, puts in his two cents on the movie.

https://www.facebook.com/ian.w.toll/posts/10219933558946212
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 12, 2019, 03:02:15 PM
I went to see this on the back of some posts over at Grogheads.

It was ok. Nothing special but not terrible. It was almost 2.5 hours long and didn't seem like it so that's normally a good sign.

Cons

Pros

That's it. Honestly, I know the cons outweigh the pros in numbers, but the pros had more weight to them...the battle scenes were very good for the most part as was some of the CGI - it really did look like real flights of SBDs and Devastators...it was worth the admission fee.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 12, 2019, 04:44:40 PM
I wasn't a fan of Woody's performance -- some actors shine in understated, focused characters, like Layton's actor, but not Harrelson.

Totally agree about Quaid and Toyokawa, however. Eckhardt does okay with a rather thankless role that was stuffed in to appeal to the financial backers' audience demographics (and Jimmy Doolittle should NEVER be a thankless role). Quaid disappears so hard into Fightin' Admiral Halsey, that I legitimately didn't know who played him until the credits rolled! (Bro knew it was Quaid, as I found out shortly afterward when expressing my surprise.) Too bad that history writes him out of the plot temporarily with the shingles, though I respected the film for not shuttling him into the battle after all.

I would not be adverse to a sequel focusing on Halsey's career through the war: THE FIGHTING ADMIRAL!

John Ford (?? -- did I understand that right?) appears on the island to get preliminary footage and ideas for a film he wants to make, and I kind of want a whole film dedicated to following him around trying to survive and understand and get footage of what's going on.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on November 12, 2019, 05:50:13 PM
Jason, if you wan to see Bill Halsey during the Guadalcanal campaign, Jimmy Cagney did that in the Gallant Hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lINrEHpLrcE
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 12, 2019, 05:54:04 PM
How did you ever handle Georgia the state and Georgia the country?  :hide:

I honestly never had to tackle that one as far as I can remember.   The only way I'd ever get that in depth on Eastern European history was if it was in an AP class, and all the AP classes I taught were US not world.

In an AP class it wouldn't have been too bad anyway.  Those kids were by and large on the ball, and a few were going into History studies, which I managed to talk a few out of.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 12, 2019, 06:30:21 PM
^In 10th grade I was the only kid to score a 5 (top score) in the AP history exam in my high school. I think it was World History. I got the history medal that year.  :nerd:

Chicks dug it.*

*no they didn't
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on November 12, 2019, 09:21:26 PM
I had a great Social Studies/History teacher in Junior High that peaked my interest in all things historical. I discovered History and Boobies the same year.  :coolsmiley:  Thanks Mr. Lane, for History, not Boobies I mean.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 12, 2019, 09:30:42 PM
^In 10th grade I was the only kid to score a 5 (top score) in the AP history exam in my high school. I think it was World History. I got the history medal that year.  :nerd:

Chicks dug it.*

*no they didn't

I scored a 5.   The very first thing my first professor, mentor and friend told me when I got to college was "Don't do this".

I didn't get Outstanding Student in History my last year in University because I was not politically left enough for much of the staff.  A transfer student with a much lower GPA than me got it.   It was made extra rough because I was the president of our Phi Alpha Theta History Honor Society Chapter and Suma Cum Lade. My mentor, a notorious leftist supported me but said I wasn't far enough in the camp of others. 

I had a long and rough relationship with academic history.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 12, 2019, 10:12:26 PM
I took a lot of history classes in College for fun.  Did not major in it because it did not look like a lucrative career path. 

I  could not imagine teaching history to junior high students or modern high school students.  I was frustrated in High School with some of the faculty's lack of knowledge.  I would read the book the first two weeks of class and then read whatever I wanted to for the rest of the year.  Just thinking about it is painful.

But on a happy note I married an Ancient History major and we have traveled lots of places and seen almost innumerable museums.  When I would go to academic conferences we would visit the museums and historical sights in the area - while everyone else hung around the hotel.  We are taking a two week WW1 tour (with a focus on the American entry) next fall.  The only place she did not want to visit with me was Norfolk, VA.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 12, 2019, 10:18:26 PM
And on a very horrifying note, I watched "Flyboys" yesterday.  We got the film from my father-in-law after he died.  He was a huge WW1 aviation buff.  Wife saw it with her Dad and I wanted to give it a chance before discarding it.

What a wretched film.  Painful.  Historically batshit in places.  My favorite stupidity was the lead seeing a buddy shot down and surviving the crash - in no mans land between the main trench lines.  So lead actor lands his plane - at the front lines, goes into no mans land, cuts buddies hand off with an entrenching tool to free him from the wreckage, and then flies the his parked plane back to base.  I also have doubts that  Nieuport 17 could have made some of the dives it did in the movie without tearing the wings off - but I'm no aviation expert so maybe that could happen.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 13, 2019, 12:10:54 AM
I took a lot of history classes in College for fun.  Did not major in it because it did not look like a lucrative career path. 

I  could not imagine teaching history to junior high students or modern high school students.  I was frustrated in High School with some of the faculty's lack of knowledge.  I would read the book the first two weeks of class and then read whatever I wanted to for the rest of the year.  Just thinking about it is painful.

But on a happy note I married an Ancient History major and we have traveled lots of places and seen almost innumerable museums.  When I would go to academic conferences we would visit the museums and historical sights in the area - while everyone else hung around the hotel.  We are taking a two week WW1 tour (with a focus on the American entry) next fall.  The only place she did not want to visit with me was Norfolk, VA.

No, it's not lucrative.  That's why I'm partially not in it anymore.  I also strongly and highly disagree with the state mandate to teach dates over substance.

You're right.  Most History teachers have an EXTREME lack of knowledge.   I had two History degrees.  This did NOT qualify me to teach history.  I had to get outside certifications and I was secondary and subordinate to people with Education degrees that honestly knew nothing about the subject they taught

I got out of it as I've said.  Being a historian means nothing in teaching history. 
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 13, 2019, 01:08:46 AM
Jason, if you wan to see Bill Halsey during the Guadalcanal campaign, Jimmy Cagney did that in the Gallant Hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lINrEHpLrcE
THAT was the film I was trying to remember. As soon as I seen Halsey, I thought "James Cagney played him in something"...thank you.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Gusington on November 13, 2019, 07:05:52 AM
Forgot all about Phi Alpha Theta - I was a member during undergrad.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on November 13, 2019, 10:36:10 AM
"Flyboys" also had a scene with German crewmen running along the top of a Zeppelin.  :DD
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 13, 2019, 10:54:36 AM
I also have doubts that  Nieuport 17 could have made some of the dives it did in the movie without tearing the wings off - but I'm no aviation expert so maybe that could happen.

I have no doubts at all that the Eindecker stolen from a Turkish base by Steve Trevor in the recent Wonder Woman film, could not even possibly have made some of its daring acrobatics during the escape (relatively tame though those were). The only thing historically plausible it did was crash into the ocean after a steep dive.

What's weirder is that there were other craft he could have stolen, more up to date with the end of WW1. Someone in production had a boner for showing an Eindecker in action while also being totally insane and/or ignorant about its capabilities.  :idiot2:

(Maybe there were CGI assets already made for an abandoned Eindecker project and someone said, hey, we already paid the money for development, let's use that asset somewhere...!)
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 13, 2019, 01:20:45 PM
There's a reason I've never seen Flyboys.

Always glad to keep seeing that reason confirmed over and over.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 13, 2019, 02:09:29 PM
Overall I enjoyed Midway more and/or rolled my eyes less, than Flyboys. But I don't recall hating the latter.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: SirAndrewD on November 13, 2019, 03:13:19 PM
I can't abide a movie that claims to be a historical film and then deliberately gets historical elements wrong.  Flyboys lost me the instant I saw they were making every German aircraft a Red Fokker Dr.I knowing full well that was historically incorrect.  May seem like a nitpick to many, but that's like nails on a chalk board to me.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 13, 2019, 04:26:56 PM
"Flyboys" also had a scene with German crewmen running along the top of a Zeppelin.  :DD

He was running like hell while the sections of the Zeppelin were going "boom", "boom," "boom" in succession.  That scene reminded me of Iraq 1 with the Iraqi driving/running over the bridge just before the USAF blew it up.  But that scene was not even close to the dumbest scenes I saw. 
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on November 14, 2019, 09:33:57 PM
Midway was “okay”.  Too focussed on the personal story of Dick Best and manly men clenching their jaws.  Also tried to cram too much in and a lot of details were lost in the process.  I wish they’d focussed more on the battle and shown more of the big picture.  They glossed over the importance of each side's recon planes and never really explained how the constant air attacks kept the Japanese from being able to launch planes.  They also didn’t really show how the Japanese CAP slowly got disorganized and pulled out of position as the battle progressed.  The Zero attacks against the TBDs were over in a few seconds rather than the long stern chase that was actually the case.  They didn’t do a good enough job of showing how well coordinated Japanese air groups were vs the disorganized US groups.   They also should have given a bit more focus to the individual carriers, their commanders, and the carrier air groups for both sides.  The attacks on Yorktown were barely covered nor were the differences in damage control between the two navies touched upon at all.

Still, it’s better than what I was expecting.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 15, 2019, 05:59:42 AM
Mark Kermode didn't like it

Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on November 18, 2019, 05:47:20 AM
The director of the National Word War II Museum reviews the movie.

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/computer-degenerated-review-midway

He comes across like a jazz purist reviewing Little Richard.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Sir Slash on November 18, 2019, 09:45:15 AM
I think he HATES pixels.  :timeout:
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 19, 2019, 09:22:02 PM
We saw it tonight and thoroughly enjoyed it (me) and did not get bored and it was ok (my wife).

I'll compare/contrast this movie versus the 1976 Midway.

1976 - Good points:
Focuses on the search for carriers.  Much more tightly focused on the battle of Midway itself.  Battle was a focus more on finding the carriers, then the various flight waves against the Jap carriers.  Much of the combat footage was from the battle itself or from WW2.

2019 - Good Points - If you have your US Navy Pacific WW2 History down pat - the story is very easy to follow.  It goes from Pearl, to the Marshalls raid, to Coral Sea, to Midway.  It shows how a small number of US ships and naval aviation were being ground down on endless deployments against tremendous odds.  The utter desperation and the willingness of most US aviators to pit themselves against horrible odds with inferior planes was very well done.  The importance of the attack of the Nautilus and how the destroyer sent to sink her led the dive bombers to the Japanese carriers was well done.  Finally, the number of near misses and how the carriers evaded bombs and torpedoes was really well done.  The CGI effect of dive bombers making their runs was amazing.

1976 Bad Points - The whole love story and Charlton Hesston trying to spring the interned female for his son.

2019 Bad Points - Too many largely irrelevant side stories.  If you don't really know WW2 Pacific History you can probably get lost in the movie. No footage of Japanese air attacks on the Yorktown.  Dick Best actor had a grating and fake New Jersey accent (he is a Brit).  Real New Jersey accents can be irritating but a poor fake is much worse.

Overall, I really enjoyed it and will probably buy a copy when I can pick it up inexpensively.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 21, 2019, 02:36:20 PM
Our fellow grog Invicta hosts Craig Symonds talking about the strategic and operational situation for the Midway battle.



The movie gets A LOT of this stuff right, btw.


The biggest thing it gets wrong, obviously for dramatic/timing purposes, is the idea that the fight was basically over after Best's attack on the Akagi. The 3rd and 4th carrier fights get compressed into this time period, and the two retaliation attacks on the Yorktown are ignored so far as I recall (which eventually would lead to its sinking but which were reported as two immediate different carrier losses when it stayed operational through heroic efforts).

I suspect, though I haven't been able to confirm yea or nay yet, that the infamous shot of the turtled carrier Yorktown, supposedly set in the aftermath of the Coral Sea battle (when of course had the carrier been that far gone she wouldn't have gotten back to dry dock to arrive to fight at Midway at the last moment), is actually an asset from a sequence acknowledging the eventual loss of the Yorktown which was deleted from the film for pacing purposes.

Maybe there should be an intraquel focusing on the Yorktown's crazy levels of survival during this period, since a good portion of her crew came back later to find she still hadn't sunk and were in the process of attempting a skeleton-crew recovery to sail her into port when she (and the destroyer holding the rest of her crew) were ambushed by the I-168 and finished off.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on November 21, 2019, 06:44:44 PM
The attack on the Yorktown was not shown. 

The result was briefly on camera (Yorktown in Flames) and back in Pearl they mention losing Yorktown while 3 Jap carriers were sunk.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on November 22, 2019, 07:52:22 AM
Invicta then goes on to review the film. Gives it good historical marks!



"It's like the historical film you or I would produce."
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Destraex on February 01, 2020, 06:26:06 PM
Saw Midway - Recommend it. Overall a good movie. But perhaps a little too slow and confusing for the general public.
There were of course some things to pick on. but much less than most. I think it's a shame that this sort of movie is not popular anymore.
I will want to pick up this movie as a blu ray movie, hopefully an extended edition will be released.

SPOILERS BELOW - a few things that made me wonder:
- The thing most obvious to me was the lack of any footage I saw showing American fighters
- I think the movie covered so much ground and this made me feel a little less invested. But no big deal. Just felt like a giant overview.
- Bombs and Torpedoes at once was strange to me.
- I wondered about the scene where the pilot disables a lot of things to simulate failures while landing The angle and move where the pilot managed to get a tonne of lift just before the back of the carrier... something DCS is about to model is the problem of air coming off the back of the aircraft carrier taking a dive and providing no or little lift. The opposite of what seemed to happen in the stunt landing scene.
- Wonder if the rear gunner finishing off a better trying to kamikaze into the back of the carrier was real
- Also wondered how damned effective the Dauntless was as a fighter. That hammerhead manoever and the shooting down of zeros with forward and rear guns was amazing to me. But probably true. The Dauntless must be an amazing aircraft.
- Some of the scenes famous quotes seem out of order, the one about the "sleeping giant" for instance. Was that more historical than tora tora tora where it happened on a ship?
- A lot of the finance came from china, so the chinese helping the doolittle pilots out was a little protracted for such an "overview" key event focussed film. But cannot complain. It happened and they needed to show more than pearl harbour did I guess.

Over all really happy with this film. No lovey dovey or PC bullcrap seemed to make it in either. Shame wiki says it barely made money.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on February 01, 2020, 06:56:51 PM
Destraex, the rear gunner was probably based on Bruno Gaido.

https://usnhistory.navylive.dodlive.mil/2017/04/24/toughness-aviation-machinist-mate-first-class-amm1c-bruno-peter-gaido/
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Staggerwing on February 01, 2020, 07:13:47 PM
- Also wondered how damned effective the Dauntless was as a fighter. That hammerhead manoever and the shooting down of zeros with forward and rear guns was amazing to me. But probably true. The Dauntless must be an amazing aircraft.

The Dauntless was the only dedicated bomber in WW2 to have a positive kills-to-deaths ratio. On a few occasions it was even used in combat air patrols if no dedicated fighters were available.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on February 01, 2020, 07:26:47 PM
- Also wondered how damned effective the Dauntless was as a fighter. That hammerhead manoever and the shooting down of zeros with forward and rear guns was amazing to me. But probably true. The Dauntless must be an amazing aircraft.

The Dauntless was the only dedicated bomber in WW2 to have a positive kills-to-deaths ratio. On a few occasions it was even used in combat air patrols if no dedicated fighters were available.

That is amazing.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Tripoli on February 01, 2020, 07:33:17 PM
The Dauntless had a 3.2:1 Kill ratio in air to air combat, and was frequently used on anti-torpedo aircraft patrol. https://www.pearlharboraviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/douglas-sbd-dauntless-scout-dive-bomber/    Watch this video of the TV show "DogFights" starting at the 1:25 mark for a classic SBD v. Zero encounter https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3qhcjy
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on February 01, 2020, 07:39:31 PM
Re the sleeping giant scene: it was more historical in the sense that Yamamoto wasn't with the strike fleet at Pearl Harbor. That was Admiral Nagumo. This is why Yamamoto famously lamented that Nagumo hadn't been able to catch and hit the American carriers, and hadn't been able to launch the originally planned third strike against the oil facilities (although in hindsight this wouldn't have affected the strategic outcome much because, as Nagumo was well aware, the facilities had been highly entrenched to resist such bombardment and the carrier planes would not have carried enough firepower to make a real difference there.)

So they have Yamamoto saying the famous Toho line back in Japan upon hearing the news. But the line itself isn't historical anyway: it was created by Toho Studios for their side of the plot in their co-production of Tora Tora Tora -- probably with a tacit nod to the idea that their most famous international film star by then, Godzilla, originally represented the United States: a sleeping nuclear giant awakened and filled with a terrible resolve, which burns Tokyo to the ground in retaliation for being disturbed.

...yep, I didn't know the line was fictional either until a year or two ago! Naturally I thought Honda and his production and writing crew had borrowed Yamamoto's famous warning as one of their basis points for Godzilla, but the famous phrase postdates them by at least ten years.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on February 01, 2020, 07:44:06 PM
For more on the sleeping giant quote (though this suggests the American side of the writing team on TTT came up with it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto%27s_sleeping_giant_quote

It does colorfully encapsulate several angles of Yamamoto's beliefs and sayings about what happened, however.

1.) He had previously warned that while he could run wild for six months in the Pacific, he could not guarantee what would happen afterward -- and this was despite him being the architect for the Pearl strike! (Which aside from missing the carriers did succeed in its limited strategic goal of providing a window of time for Japan to act.)

2.) He declared to another officer in 1942, referencing the attack, that there was no honor in striking a sleeping enemy, though the only dishonor was for the one caught sleeping who should have been on guard.

3.) Back at staff HQ, while his staff was celebrating, he himself spent protracted time in a depression afterward (something the film also shows, if I recall correctly). The reason was that due to various errors his goal of alerting the White House of a declaration of war 30 minutes before the attack, had only arrived substantially afterward; thus losing the moral ground and adding a special moral rage as a factor to the United States' response.

4.) He had warned fellow high command that the only way to beat the United States would be to dictate terms in the White House itself, i.e. as long as we were willing to fight the only way the Japanese would win would be to invade the west coast all the way to the east coast and destroy us as a nation, this being impossible. This was generally accepted, with the provision that the goal should therefore be to make us (and Great Britain) unwilling to fight any longer in their theater as soon as possible. But the moral outrage of Pearl Harbor would hamper their only geopolitical hope of victory against us in the Pacific.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: Destraex on February 01, 2020, 08:20:04 PM
Amazing insights above. The dauntless may become a fav aircraft of mine.

I will also add that like most movies these days. It felt like one giant 1.5hr trailer.
I have to watch it again when I get it on blu ray and settle down to really absorb it properly. As it was I went with my wife - who had a coughing fit laughing at me which resulted in her breathing in popcorn - and my son who kept looking at me meaningfully when quotes or carriers from WOWS came up. This was on top of doing the lawn in 40 degree heat here in Australia. It got to something like 48 degrees Celsius. I was exhausted and distracted. So need to really sit down and enjoy.

I am very happy though that I have already got so much out of the movie just talking about it.
Shame it was a flop at the movies.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: The_Admiral on February 01, 2020, 08:21:50 PM
Jason is right - if there's any fault, it lies in the willingness of others to quote a movie so much that it ended up being seen as a historical source (to the point of forgetting where the quote itself came from) but in terms of artistic license, I can't really blame Tora Tora Tora.

This topic contains other quotes from Yamamoto, taken from his personal correspondence. Clearly the said quote, as apocryphal as it gets, is not out of character.
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=72131

As a related topic, just check how many of Napoleon's famous quotes are completely made up and still absolutely mentioned to this day, it's scary  :hide:
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on February 02, 2020, 07:08:05 AM
Jason, very nice information.
One other tidbit that came out of the postwar interviews of Japanese leaders.
The army was very insular and near sighted.  China was the big thing in their view, followed by Russia.  The US was far away and only marginally of interest.
A number of generals viewed america through the lens of fragmented china.  Each provincial leader/warlord might be a part of Nationalist China, but they mostly did what they wanted.  The national government was not able to get these local leaders to mobilise in a truly national military movement.
When these generals read, "United States of America", they interpreted that to mean a looser confederation in which the individual states would follow their own policy.
Some army leaders believed that war with the United States would probably only include California, Washington, and Oregon.  Maybe Nevada, Idaho.  The eastern states would not be interested in a war on the other side of the world.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: JasonPratt on February 02, 2020, 08:38:51 AM
Oh, they thought we were a confederation! -- that makes a lot of sense to their attitude. I guess the naval leaders benefited from having come to the US for college?
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: besilarius on February 03, 2020, 06:21:46 AM
Yamamoto surely recognized the difference.  His infighting with the army actually led to his becoming CinC of the Combined Fleet.
As Deputy Navy Minister he fought with the army nationalists about everything.  At one point, the army put guards around his house and to accompany him.  Ostensibly, they were to prevent any assasination attempts but within the navy it was accepted that the guards would make it simpler, when Tojo and the nationalists decided to remove him.
Naval Minister Yonai sent him to the fleet as the only way to protect yamamoto.
Pearl Harbor attack came about because he recognized the vast difference in resources between Japan and the US.  Striking the first blow, to even up the forces, seemed to him the only way to have a chance to win.

As a curious footnote, while in america, he toured the US.  Supposedly, he so impressed a Texas oilman, that he offered Yamamoto a job with an incredible salary.
His sense of duty and obligation to the emperor would not allow him to leave his service to the empire.
Title: Re: Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8
Post by: airboy on June 22, 2020, 06:34:19 PM
I bought this and watched it again.  It held up very well indeed.

This is definitely a movie needed in any grogs movie stash.