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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: Jarhead0331 on April 08, 2020, 03:02:19 PM

Title: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 08, 2020, 03:02:19 PM
From the designer of the Advanced Tactics and Decisive Campaigns series.

Its deep, fellas.

http://grogheads.com/previews/20488 (http://grogheads.com/previews/20488)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on April 08, 2020, 03:10:48 PM
Thanks for the sneak peek.  Looking forward to seeing more when it releases.  I wish he had made another Decisive Campaigns game, but hope this does well for him.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on April 08, 2020, 04:33:44 PM
LOOK! MORE OF MY MONEY GOES THAT DIRECTION!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on April 08, 2020, 05:21:23 PM
DasTactic plays Shadow Empire.  Haven't watched this yet myself:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QbPel4c9Kw
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on April 08, 2020, 06:25:07 PM
AAAAAAAA..........yea.......I'll be buying this. It's like ATG and Decisive Campaigns had a baby, but in the future.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on April 08, 2020, 06:26:33 PM
Looking good!  Yup, another game I'm going to spend my money on.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on April 08, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Das's video is great, can't wait for this one!  <:-)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: GroggyGrognard on April 08, 2020, 09:05:08 PM
Fantastic preview. Thank you for posting.

It's nice to see a unique and fresh approach to the 4X game genre. Easily, one of my most anticipated games to come out this year.


(https://memecreator.org/static/images/memes/5053115.jpg)


Groggy
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on April 09, 2020, 07:14:56 AM
Been watching this one for a while now.

Day 1 buy from me.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Emir Agic on April 09, 2020, 11:48:52 AM
This is day one buy for me also. But I would like Vic used more up to date 3D models, rendering or simply just more artistic 2D presentation for some things. Now it looks like environment screens and people faces are crawled back from 1998. They should be immersion amplifiers not immersion breakers.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Phantom on April 09, 2020, 12:04:11 PM
I'm a big fan of VR's games (I think I've got & played all of them) - indeed the current isolation has me playing DC Barbarossa - hugely engaging game, which IMO hits that sweet spot balancing deep gameplay & playability. I've also played Gary Grigsby's games, but am put off by the complexity & desire to manage and show every detail, the spreadsheet like nature of them, and again IMO, the inevitable impact on the user interface - it in turn becoming complex & unwieldy.
This is something DC Barbarossa (and previous titles) avoids - a remarkable achievement for such a complex game, and illustrated by clever use of cards for assets like artillery & air power, and clever incorporation of people/leaders - surely an absolute fundamental for any accurate portrayal of conflict.

The reason I say all this is I sincerely hope that Shadow Empire doesn't sacrifice this. Often less is more, and I'd hate this game to just become another Paradox/Grigsby style of accounts management game, driven by an unnecessary desire to do a more "complex" game. Space 4X is fine, but I hope this is something different.  (though I still wish VR had done a North Africa game :bd:)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on May 07, 2020, 09:35:23 AM
Shadow empire release date dropped. June 4th
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2020, 09:50:46 AM
Only on Matrix at the moment, but presumably on Steam and/or GoG eventually?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 07, 2020, 09:51:12 AM
Shadow empire release date dropped. June 4th

Nice. That's my wife's birthday. I can get it for me for her birthday!  <:-)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2020, 10:04:06 AM
I remember Bro and I saving up to buy Dad a cartridge of "Asteroids" for our Atari2600 system, shortly after the game released, for his birthday.

In hindsight I feel kind of sorry about that, but we really did think he would want to play it, too.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on May 07, 2020, 10:08:27 AM
Shadow empire release date dropped. June 4th

Nice. That's my wife's birthday. I can get it for me for her birthday!  <:-)
She will be SO excited!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on May 07, 2020, 10:23:15 AM
My birthday on May 22nd and my lovely wife has promised to get it for me :smitten:

Release of the year.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Gusington on May 07, 2020, 10:40:14 AM
 ;D That is sig line worthy.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on May 07, 2020, 11:45:18 AM
;D That is sig line worthy.

 :DD
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: CJReich46 on May 07, 2020, 11:48:56 AM
June 4th! WOOT!  :D

Definitely Grabbing.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on May 07, 2020, 11:57:53 AM
June 4th! WOOT!  :D

Definitely Grabbing.

Not a problem for me but folks should note it appears to be a Matrix Store exclusive (at least initially) despite there being a store page for it on Steam.....

Interesting.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Martok on May 07, 2020, 07:43:14 PM
June 4th! WOOT!  :D

Definitely Grabbing.

Not a problem for me but folks should note it appears to be a Matrix Store exclusive (at least initially) despite there being a store page for it on Steam.....

Interesting.

An oversight, maybe? 

I'm not terribly worried either way.  I'm happy to purchase it directly from the M/S website, I just also want get my Steam key at some point. 

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on May 07, 2020, 08:06:56 PM
June 4th! WOOT!  :D

Definitely Grabbing.

Not a problem for me but folks should note it appears to be a Matrix Store exclusive (at least initially) despite there being a store page for it on Steam.....

Interesting.

An oversight, maybe? 

I'm not terribly worried either way.  I'm happy to purchase it directly from the M/S website, I just also want get my Steam key at some point.


I agree with you Martok the Matrix store works fine for me.

Don't think its an oversight as the Matrix newsletter e-mailed out to me specifically mentioned the "Matrix exclusive".
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on May 08, 2020, 09:58:36 AM
I've noticed that with Matrix/Slitherine you are better off purchasing directly from them and getting the Steam Key later.  Some of their Steam purchased products have issues with them regarding mods, updates, PBEM features, etc. 

One of my recent purchases from last year was Field of Glory Empires from Steam.  I had a difficult time getting the multiplayer window to log me in and find a game I was playing with Jason, MD, and Tuna.  This is the 21st century and I shouldn't have struggles like this on a Steam purchased game.  Forgive me but my patience and tolerance for ineptitude is quite short these days.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on May 08, 2020, 10:11:02 AM
I've noticed that with Matrix/Slitherine you are better off purchasing directly from them and getting the Steam Key later.  Some of their Steam purchased products have issues with them regarding mods, updates, PBEM features, etc. 

One of my recent purchases from last year was Field of Glory Empires from Steam.  I had a difficult time getting the multiplayer window to log me in and find a game I was playing with Jason, MD, and Tuna.  This is the 21st century and I shouldn't have struggles like this on a Steam purchased game.  Forgive me but my patience and tolerance for ineptitude is quite short these days.


Interesting.

I had issues with the games not updating properly via the In game Matrix updater whereas Steam does it automatically so I have never had an issue.

As with so much with our hobby its "horses for courses".
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: ArizonaTank on May 08, 2020, 11:47:39 AM
I've noticed that with Matrix/Slitherine you are better off purchasing directly from them and getting the Steam Key later.  Some of their Steam purchased products have issues with them regarding mods, updates, PBEM features, etc. 

One of my recent purchases from last year was Field of Glory Empires from Steam.  I had a difficult time getting the multiplayer window to log me in and find a game I was playing with Jason, MD, and Tuna.  This is the 21st century and I shouldn't have struggles like this on a Steam purchased game.  Forgive me but my patience and tolerance for ineptitude is quite short these days.

Over the years, I have had multiple computers, been in several different locations, and have never been able to get the Matrix updater to work. I have always had to update manually...or as you suggest, play them on Steam; where updates do actually happen.


Interesting.

I had issues with the games not updating properly via the In game Matrix updater whereas Steam does it automatically so I have never had an issue.

As with so much with our hobby its "horses for courses".
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on May 08, 2020, 01:29:37 PM
While I've run into the same problem W8 talked about (while playing the same game, and in fact mp with him), I've never run into the same problem on other Matrix games I've bought through Steam. FoG:Emp released with the latest version of PBEM++ (+++?), updated to finally allow more than two players, and I inferred that this was the problem or something related back at the Matrixlitherine servers. Then again, the game itself has some odd bugs where it thinks it has shut down without shutting down and gives various alerts to this effect, which might be an artifact of the standard Matrix front-end trying to run after Steam, but which I don't recall seeing on their other games aside from occasionally other Ageod titles! -- thus I'm inclined to suspect this is some kind of persistent Ageod coding glitch.

Still, the inability to log into the multiplayer serves on occasion, is glaring and annoying, and certainly real, whatever its cause(s).  >:(
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Tpek on May 14, 2020, 04:30:00 PM
There are already let's plays of this game by various YouTube influencers.




Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on May 14, 2020, 09:26:21 PM
The You Tube series by Dastactic are long, comprehensive and in my opinion the most informative to date.

He explains mechanics very thoroughly.


Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on May 15, 2020, 08:32:16 AM
True about Dastactic; but that second video is kind of adorably neat!  O0
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on May 15, 2020, 10:32:49 AM
True about Dastactic; but that second video is kind of adorably neat!  O0
Can't wait to buy the game.  Love the voice and accent in that second video.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on May 15, 2020, 10:37:33 AM
True about Dastactic; but that second video is kind of adorably neat!  O0

I get you Jason.

 ;)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on May 15, 2020, 11:27:36 AM
New video from her yesterday continuing the series from the first ep linked above.

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Tpek on May 15, 2020, 12:13:07 PM
I've tried guessing the woman's (from the 2nd YouTube video I linked) origin from her accent, but alas I am not an expert.
At best it sounds to me like she might come from a Romanesque-language speaking country.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 15, 2020, 12:21:35 PM
She is from Czechia.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: sandman2575 on May 15, 2020, 12:56:28 PM
My guess is Arstotzka.

Glory to Arstotzka!   ;)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 15, 2020, 12:57:56 PM
My guess is Arstotzka.

Glory to Arstotzka!   ;)

There are maybe 2 people here who will get that reference without google. lol
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: sandman2575 on May 15, 2020, 01:03:38 PM
That's a shame -- it's a really good game!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on May 15, 2020, 04:58:59 PM
I had to google, I'll admit.

Czech makes sense; I couldn't for the life of me place her accent either. Sometimes it sounded French, sometimes German, sometimes Slavic... Good English, tho!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Martok on May 15, 2020, 10:05:28 PM
New video from her yesterday continuing the series from the first ep linked above.



I actually first stumbled across her about a month ago when she did a preview video of the upcoming fantasy 4x Godking: Master of Rituals (currently in EA).  Glad to see she's covering this one as well. 

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Tpek on May 16, 2020, 11:35:00 AM
My guess is Arstotzka.

Glory to Arstotzka!   ;)

There are maybe 2 people here who will get that reference without google. lol

Considering Papers Please was pretty popular and well known, I don't see why you believe so few would get this reference.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 16, 2020, 11:48:45 AM
count me as one of the few who didn’t get it...never heard of it
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Tpek on May 16, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
count me as one of the few who didn’t get it...never heard of it

Shame on you!  :P

https://store.steampowered.com/app/239030/Papers_Please/
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 16, 2020, 03:30:42 PM
count me as one of the few who didn’t get it...never heard of it

Shame on you!  :P

https://store.steampowered.com/app/239030/Papers_Please/

I've heard of the game, but would have never tied the phrase mentioned to it.....its one of the few games I have not bought:)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on May 22, 2020, 08:55:01 AM
Whhhhyyy! Why did I think it would be out today, whhhhyyy?!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Sir Slash on May 22, 2020, 10:07:02 AM
Because you're a Hopeless Optimist living in a Realist Nightmare. Come over to the.... Pessimist Side.  >:(
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 22, 2020, 10:20:40 AM
June 4, I think. Received the retail review code today.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on May 22, 2020, 01:33:59 PM
Yeah, looked upthread, it has always been June 4th.

Apparently my brain read that as "weekend yay!" and then from there "NEXT weekend, yay!" by a form of osmosis.  :buck2:

(Note to self: by "next weekend" I do NOT mean it's coming next weekend, dolt!)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Martok on May 22, 2020, 10:27:02 PM
Whhhhyyy! Why did I think it would be out today, whhhhyyy?!

Maybe you confused/conflated it with the Persia DLC for Field of Glory: Empires?  It would certainly be understandable if you had. 

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 03, 2020, 07:26:05 PM
tomorrow’s the day...not sure how well it will click with me, but since different, likely a purchase anyway, assuming reasonable price....i’ll guess $49.99.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on June 03, 2020, 08:49:40 PM
Hoping $39.99. But I will also be purchasing.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 03, 2020, 09:08:48 PM
This game and Grand Tactician are the two "non negotiable" releases of 2020.

Both innovative with it appears huge repeatability.

Today is yet another day when I can be grateful I am retired early (and healthy enough to enjoy it !)

As for price I am expecting £34.99 ....around 40 US.....we shall see...
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: GroggyGrognard on June 03, 2020, 09:55:23 PM
I've been saving my Matrix Games/Slitherine Anniversary coupon for this one.


Groggy
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 03, 2020, 10:02:40 PM
Non-negotiable, indeed!  \m/
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 04, 2020, 04:57:34 AM
i hope my guess on price is wrong.....gladly willing to be wrong on that:)  the previous games were $39.99 so i was just thinking this one may get the “extra special” tag with a higher price....we’ll see in a couple of hours.  i’ll admit if it is 49.99 or higher, it likely will pause my purchase....not because of it being a bad game, just not sure how i am going to enjoy it because not my normal stuff and outside my knee jerk impulse buy range:)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on June 04, 2020, 06:08:05 AM
Hope it is good.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 04, 2020, 06:36:28 AM
Only thing to give me pause would be a WITE price, which i don't think will be the case. I'm not usually an early adopter, except for games done by developers i'm a fan boy of, and Vic is on the short list.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: GibbyG on June 04, 2020, 08:01:15 AM

It's out.  $39.99
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on June 04, 2020, 08:42:27 AM
Wonder if there will be any discount codes for day one buys or for people who own ALL of Vic's other games?
edit: doesn't matter, bought it anyway.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 04, 2020, 08:53:57 AM
The game is out now?  Where's my wallet? 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Gusington on June 04, 2020, 09:01:35 AM
^I've got it.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Sir Slash on June 04, 2020, 09:04:34 AM
And mine too.  #:-)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Gusington on June 04, 2020, 09:32:00 AM
 8)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 04, 2020, 10:06:19 AM
^I've got it.

Hey how did you get it?  Oh well, may I borrow my wallet from you to buy the game?   ;D
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 04, 2020, 10:09:39 AM
damn, i already got ambushed by some independents. I watched the videos, but damn, there's a lot to this game. I'm only in the second turn, and not sure what to do so just following the advice. The UI is busy but slick, there are a lot of buttons and menus, but you can hide them all to the sides of the screen. Think i'll RTFM :)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 04, 2020, 10:13:18 AM

It's out.  $39.99

Glad I was wrong....guess I will give it a try, looks unique enough:)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Gusington on June 04, 2020, 10:19:17 AM
W8: no sorry, I need it and I’m busy.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 04, 2020, 10:19:46 AM
Saw this on Steam forum saying 20% off using this code.....Wargamer20

Game not on Steam, but some folks in the forum shared the info.  I already bought so I can't confirm.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Millipede on June 04, 2020, 10:41:38 AM
Saw this on Steam forum saying 20% off using this code.....Wargamer20

Game not on Steam, but some folks in the forum shared the info.  I already bought so I can't confirm.

"Wargamer20" works. $31.99!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: ExWargamerJoe on June 04, 2020, 10:50:02 AM
It should work, it was the coupon code Paolo over at Matrix gave us. Not surprised someone posted it on Steam hah.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Yskonyn on June 04, 2020, 11:26:45 AM
Bought it!

Now let’s find out who are the real men among us and dare to start a PBEM game with hopefully 4 human players and full fog of war!

http://www.grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=24554.0
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: CJReich46 on June 04, 2020, 12:05:07 PM
Saw this on Steam forum saying 20% off using this code.....Wargamer20

Game not on Steam, but some folks in the forum shared the info.  I already bought so I can't confirm.

Saw it. Yoink!  Downloading now..la la la.. :dreamer:
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 04, 2020, 12:19:37 PM

It's out.  $39.99

My guess above was 40 US dollars.

Do I win a prize ? ;)

Bought the game. Runs like a dream and the 368 page manual is a work of art.

First Empire set up. A bigger collection of incompetent buffoons you would be hard pressed to locate anywhere in the known universe than those that sit in the Cabinet of the Brotherhood of Lindisfarne. If its citizens are to prosper they can expect no help from Central Gov't.....at least it this respect Vic has nailed realism :)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Sir Slash on June 04, 2020, 01:31:20 PM
Send all the bills to Gus C.O.D. He has all our wallets.  :-X
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Gusington on June 04, 2020, 01:37:43 PM
...out of my cold, dead hands.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: steve58 on June 04, 2020, 02:05:00 PM
OK guys & gals.  My MG anniversary coupon is coming up ~8/1 (tho I get at least 2 other emails from MG/Slitherine at different times of the year telling me about my coupon ???) so I'm going to be watching this thread.  Just letting you know it'll be me lurking over your shoulders.  I suspect it may be interesting, especially after this thread (http://www.grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=24500.0).  Now...carry on.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 04, 2020, 02:15:21 PM
W8: no sorry, I need it and I’m busy.

LOL.  Ok I'll just borrow my wife's wallet then!  I'm sure she won't mind. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Sir Slash on June 04, 2020, 08:54:12 PM
Ohhh. Good idea.  O0  Where does your wife keep her wallet?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 04, 2020, 09:05:45 PM
Just rolled up a planet that has 7-meter long advanced vertebrate super-crabs with massive jaws, and also some winged "maxilobsters."  According to the planet's history, there used to be lizard-footed "pseudo-shrimp" which went extinct 321 million years ago.  Did I mention this planet also evolved "dilobsters" that have lungs and straight feet!?!  I think I'll have to follow Chef's advice from Apocalypse Now - "Never get out of the boat!"  :hide:
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Tanaka on June 04, 2020, 09:58:35 PM
Anybody else get this error message when trying to use the coupon code? Don't know why as I have not purchased anything?

"Order creation failure due to problematic input.. Coupon has exceeded maximum use limit ."
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: GroggyGrognard on June 04, 2020, 11:49:00 PM
I just picked it up for $22 bucks. I had a 44% discount with my Matrix Games/Slitherine Anniversary coupon.

Not too shabby.


Groggy
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Yskonyn on June 05, 2020, 01:38:11 AM
Anybody else get this error message when trying to use the coupon code? Don't know why as I have not purchased anything?

"Order creation failure due to problematic input.. Coupon has exceeded maximum use limit ."

The anniversary coupon is only valid for a limited amount of time. Any chance it ran out?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: ExWargamerJoe on June 05, 2020, 02:42:51 AM
Anybody else get this error message when trying to use the coupon code? Don't know why as I have not purchased anything?

"Order creation failure due to problematic input.. Coupon has exceeded maximum use limit ."

Which coupon code are you using?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Martok on June 05, 2020, 08:59:39 AM
Explorminate has done a deep dive on the game, with a full review still to come (I believe).  Sounds like they really like it. 

https://explorminate.co/what-to-expect-shadow-empire/

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 05, 2020, 09:52:02 AM
Ohhh. Good idea.  O0  Where does your wife keep her wallet?

Haha!  Give me $39.99 and I'll tell you.   :)


The Wargamer20 code worked for me.  Boy this game is pretty cool.  There is a lot to mull over.  I think I spent about 60 minutes last night on turn one alone.  But I don't get the sense of being overwhelmed with too much information.  The key seems to be learning the menu system and UI.  Once you get familiar with those two items you'll figure the game out for yourself without the aid of the manual.  I'm still planning on watching LPs on YouTube just to make sure I didn't miss anything though.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 05, 2020, 11:11:03 AM
Ohhh. Good idea.  O0  Where does your wife keep her wallet?

Haha!  Give me $39.99 and I'll tell you.   :)


The Wargamer20 code worked for me.  Boy this game is pretty cool.  There is a lot to mull over.  I think I spent about 60 minutes last night on turn one alone.  But I don't get the sense of being overwhelmed with too much information.  The key seems to be learning the menu system and UI.  Once you get familiar with those two items you'll figure the game out for yourself without the aid of the manual.  I'm still planning on watching LPs on YouTube just to make sure I didn't miss anything though.


Agree completely.

I am usually a "normal difficulty" type guy other than FoG2 when I am a bit better.

This game on beginner is fine for me for now :)

The AI is suitably aggressive without piling on but you really do need to cover all sides of your capital from attempted incursions by the non aligned and minor factions at the beginning,ethics alone any critters !
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Sir Slash on June 05, 2020, 11:14:18 AM
Lets have some pics. Or maybe a Grog-Video or two.  :D
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Tanaka on June 05, 2020, 11:28:10 AM
Anybody else get this error message when trying to use the coupon code? Don't know why as I have not purchased anything?

"Order creation failure due to problematic input.. Coupon has exceeded maximum use limit ."

Which coupon code are you using?

Using the Wargamer code. For some reason the system thinks I already used the code to purchase but I have not.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on June 05, 2020, 11:38:45 AM
I just picked it up for $22 bucks. I had a 44% discount with my Matrix Games/Slitherine Anniversary coupon.

Not too shabby.


Groggy

Tell us what you think of the game after you play it 6+ hours or so.   :)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 05, 2020, 03:16:58 PM
I just picked it up for $22 bucks. I had a 44% discount with my Matrix Games/Slitherine Anniversary coupon.

Not too shabby.


Groggy

Tell us what you think of the game after you play it 6+ hours or so.   :)

Not sure 6+ hours is enough, spent almost an hour looking around at everything on turn 1.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jomni on June 05, 2020, 07:12:17 PM
Ok. I've been out of action playing only one game (Warthunder) for months. No new purchases. I'm thinking of buying the new Command. But this came up and really tempts me. Looking forward to the commends from our Grog community.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 05, 2020, 07:47:43 PM
Just a quick post on my experience so far. 

I've played the game now for maybe 3 hours or so.  Started a game on normal difficulty (the one that is one step above beginner) and got smoked when a minor faction that I did not destroy but made peace with broke that peace 10 turns later. 

Thankfully since I'm still learning the game I didn't consider save scumming to be dishonorable and reloaded the game from before the first war broke out with said minor faction.  This time I conquered him but then was immediately invaded by his minor nation neighbor to the south.  At that point I almost rage quit but careful study of the attacking forces revealed that although they had numerical superiority I had a tech advantage over him.  My riflemen are armed with carbines whilst his slave soldiers are still using slugthrowers.  So far that new war is going well. 

I like this game so much better than Advanced Tactics Gold (and I really like Advanced Tactics Gold).  Shadow Empires has depth to it without being a brain busting exercise.  If you've never played Advanced Tactics then this game might be a bit quirky to learn at first but like I said before, learn the menu and the ui and you're all set.  This game definitely has that one more turn feel to it that should last even when the honeymoon phase is over.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 05, 2020, 07:53:33 PM

I like this game so much better than Advanced Tactics Gold (and I really like Advanced Tactics Gold).  Shadow Empires has depth to it without being a brain busting exercise.  If you've never played Advanced Tactics then this game might be a bit quirky to learn at first but like I said before, learn the menu and the ai and you're all set.  T

Agreed with this 100%.  I also think the sci fi theme works really well, but I'd still love to see an Advanced Tactics 2 that incorporates some of the QOL features like easier movement, formation types, the troop replacement mechanic, etc.

Also, adding to my previous comment - it took about 15 turns for me to encounter a 2,000 strong horde of 3-meter "dilobsters" who swarmed in from the non-aligned zones and ripped my army to shreds shortly after I finished conquest of my 2 neighboring minor factions.  This was a Tech Level 3 (lowest) world so we didn't have much more than rifles and ragtag bikes and buggies to fight them with, but I swear those bastards were a scarier threat than any human nation on the map... and according to the planet info, they're not even the biggest creatures out there. :hide:
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on June 05, 2020, 07:56:24 PM
My one wish would be for this game to permit space travel, exploration and fleets so you can have ship combat, planetary invasion, conquest and colonization. The mission being to reunite the scattered human empire. How awesome would that be???
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 05, 2020, 07:59:59 PM
My one wish would be for this game to permit space travel, exploration and fleets so you can have ship combat, planetary invasion, conquest and colonization. The mission being to reunite the scattered human empire. How awesome would that be???

Gary Grigsby's War in Space   8)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 05, 2020, 08:17:31 PM
My one wish would be for this game to permit space travel, exploration and fleets so you can have ship combat, planetary invasion, conquest and colonization. The mission being to reunite the scattered human empire. How awesome would that be???

Gary Grigsby's War in Space   8)

Awesome!!!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on June 05, 2020, 08:18:23 PM
My one wish would be for this game to permit space travel, exploration and fleets so you can have ship combat, planetary invasion, conquest and colonization. The mission being to reunite the scattered human empire. How awesome would that be???

Gary Grigsby's War in Space   8)

Yes!  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on June 05, 2020, 08:24:40 PM
Sounds more like barely disguised lusting for Emperor of the Fading Suns.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on June 05, 2020, 08:38:50 PM
Do you want to bring about a Horus Heresy?

Because this is how you bring about a Horus Heresy.  :knuppel2:
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Gusington on June 05, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Emperor of the Fading Suns II FTW!!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: ArizonaTank on June 05, 2020, 10:35:30 PM
Just a quick post on my experience so far. 

I've played the game now for maybe 3 hours or so.  Started a game on normal difficulty (the one that is one step above beginner) and got smoked when a minor faction that I did not destroy but made peace with broke that peace 10 turns later. 

Thankfully since I'm still learning the game I didn't consider save scumming to be dishonorable and reloaded the game from before the first war broke out with said minor faction.  This time I conquered him but then was immediately invaded by his minor nation neighbor to the south.  At that point I almost rage quit but careful study of the attacking forces revealed that although they had numerical superiority I had a tech advantage over him.  My riflemen are armed with carbines whilst his slave soldiers are still using slugthrowers.  So far that new war is going well. 

I like this game so much better than Advanced Tactics Gold (and I really like Advanced Tactics Gold).  Shadow Empires has depth to it without being a brain busting exercise.  If you've never played Advanced Tactics then this game might be a bit quirky to learn at first but like I said before, learn the menu and the ui and you're all set.  This game definitely has that one more turn feel to it that should last even when the honeymoon phase is over.

+1 I'm about 3 hours in as well. I always liked the concepts in ATGold but thought the UI too clicky and never got very far with it.

SE has a better UI, but still, I can't really say it is intuitive. Some functions just seem out of place. But I am starting to get used to it.

SE is not the kind of game you can just pick up and learn with brute force.

I had to spend about an hour with the manual, and another hour watching youtube videos before I had enough understanding to make progress. 

I would say the complexity is right up there with GG's War in the West or War in the Pacific AE. But unit density is much lower, so turns go faster (at least in the early stages of the game)

Strangely, there is no tutorial. A section of the manual is "tutorialish" but that doesn't really substitute for a good old fashioned walk-through. The manual does a great job in telling you what you can do...but is not as generous in telling you why. That is OK, since it means you must experiment a bit. But I have done about five re-starts already

Gameplay is like...well take ATGold as the base, add in a layer of Crusader Kings II with a touch of Europa Universalis V, and that is the game.

As an old Army logistician, I love a good logistics game, and SE has a good logistics under game. Your armies won't get far in the world without a good supply system behind them.

I have found one irritating "feature" or "bug" that has cooled my jets a bit (I keep getting an error when trying to build roads...and roads are critical to your expansion plans). The error only seems to happen when I do a bare bones start. If I start a game that has some pre-existing roads, I don't see the error.  Hopefully I will shortly find out what I am doing wrong...or maybe a patch will fix it.

I suspect I will like the game a great deal, but right now learning the game is stretching my brain cells too much.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jomni on June 06, 2020, 12:32:03 AM
If it had art like in Decisive campaigns, then it would be really sweet. The art here I guess is similar to AT. Though art can be modded.
Gameplay looks really promising.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Yskonyn on June 06, 2020, 12:34:55 AM
Art can be modded indeed! So no worries there.

Meanwhile I found a very useful video with beginner tips:
https://youtu.be/FLn0ReF7s4Y

Also check out DasTactic’s tutorials for focussed topics:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGB6RkFB7ZmPoXDAaR8FbM3xujwMsDgEv
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jomni on June 06, 2020, 02:16:30 AM
Anybody else get this error message when trying to use the coupon code? Don't know why as I have not purchased anything?

"Order creation failure due to problematic input.. Coupon has exceeded maximum use limit ."

The anniversary coupon is only valid for a limited amount of time. Any chance it ran out?

Ok I just bought the game together with Command Modern Ops with 47% loyalty discount. If you ignored the email without redeeming the code, it can last a long time. My email came in April. But once you redeem, the code lasts only for 30 days.

By the way, there's no Steam key if you buy directly from Slitnerine?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 06, 2020, 02:52:12 AM
Anybody else get this error message when trying to use the coupon code? Don't know why as I have not purchased anything?

"Order creation failure due to problematic input.. Coupon has exceeded maximum use limit ."

The anniversary coupon is only valid for a limited amount of time. Any chance it ran out?

Ok I just bought the game together with Command Modern Ops with 47% loyalty discount. If you ignored the email without redeeming the code, it can last a long time. My email came in April. But once you redeem, the code lasts only for 30 days.

By the way, there's no Steam key if you buy directly from Slitnerine?


The only reason there is no steam code for now is because it has not yet been released on Steam.

Matrix/Slitherine have confirmed that keys will be provided once it is launched on Steam....advisable to register your game with Matrix.

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Martok on June 06, 2020, 07:56:57 AM
I was originally thinking to wait until August when I can use my loyalty coupon to pick this up.  But those two months seem awfully far away right now. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on June 06, 2020, 08:18:53 AM
I’m not sure why. And hopefully no one gets in trouble however for some reason I was able to use my 2019 loyalty coupon.

No sure if matrix changed the policy or if I fell through the cracks.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 06, 2020, 09:32:13 AM
It's really good. You will need to consult the manual, i usually have it open while i play to read up on stuff while playing. It's not that you can't play with out consulting the manual, but the game is very interesting and i want to see how deep the rabbit hole goes. I'm on my second restart and just trying things out, started my first war with a minor. I won't be able to really complete the conquest as my logistics network and ammo production aren't up to snuff. It might depend on your settings or your starting position but both my games are pretty slow developing. Right now i'm saddled with quite a few bad leaders, and only two in my reserve pool of which only one is any good. All that made me go early for an interior council when i really didn't want to so maybe i can some good HR stratagems to fire or kill them :)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 06, 2020, 11:03:43 AM
It's really good. You will need to consult the manual, i usually have it open while i play to read up on stuff while playing. It's not that you can't play with out consulting the manual, but the game is very interesting and i want to see how deep the rabbit hole goes. I'm on my second restart and just trying things out, started my first war with a minor. I won't be able to really complete the conquest as my logistics network and ammo production aren't up to snuff. It might depend on your settings or your starting position but both my games are pretty slow developing. Right now i'm saddled with quite a few bad leaders, and only two in my reserve pool of which only one is any good. All that made me go early for an interior council when i really didn't want to so maybe i can some good HR stratagems to fire or kill them :)

....and there in a nutshell from Budd is an illustration of the beauty of the design. Most folk at first will develop Economic Council, Military Research Council, then maybe Military Design or Interior Ministry. Yet the different situations the game throws at you means a " no Brainer" build order is anything but. I have gone for a Council I otherwise not have because one of the military faction leaders was Class 5 the best) with amazing stats for espionage and got huge benefit as a result mid game.

Infrastructure builds are also completely situational rather than cookie cutter. How many games genuinely can offer this ?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 06, 2020, 11:25:01 AM
Another thing, as opposed to most other 4X games this one is wargame 4x. War takes some prep, getting your roads/rail up and running with supply dumps and truck stations, getting replacements in the pipeline, produce enough ammo to fight with, and all this takes away from growth in other areas. I've only met minor regimes, so don't know how foreign diplomacy is, but man if that is good, this is one fine game with just a crap load of replay. All this out of the gate, man Vic :notworthy:

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 06, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
I agree with you -budd-

The game is awesome right out of the gate. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: MetalDog on June 06, 2020, 11:51:09 AM
You should all really stop saying how awesome this game is.  I don't know if I can wait until it releases on Steam.  I will say I am not super crazy about a Sci-Fi setting as that isn't usually my cup of tea (which I don't drink).  If that sounds like you and you are playing the game and still loving it, I'd like to hear from you.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Father Ted on June 06, 2020, 12:50:51 PM
You should all really stop saying how awesome this game is.  I don't know if I can wait until it releases on Steam.  I will say I am not super crazy about a Sci-Fi setting as that isn't usually my cup of tea (which I don't drink).  If that sounds like you and you are playing the game and still loving it, I'd like to hear from you.

Well, if you need a counterpoint, I'm finding it a bit overwhelming at the moment.  There is a lot to consider each turn.  I'm confident I'll get my head round it all at some point (loved ATG), but just now I'm ploughing through (and re-watching) Das Tactics' vids rather than actually playing.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 06, 2020, 01:19:45 PM
I'm also not crazy about sci-fi settings.  I can get behind a good SF novel or film, but in terms of gaming (especially wargames) I tend to prefer things based in historical reality, as I find it hard to get behind "six goog-goggles engaging eleven shoop-dorples" tactical thinking.

That said, I think this game absolutely nails the "wargame set in a Mad Max world" feeling so well that I love the game despite part of me wishing it was WW2.  It still feels grounded in real-life despite the inclusion of futuristic technology like laser guns and sentient fighting robots.  The operational/tactical thinking still feels like classic ATG with a cool coat of Mad Max paint.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: MetalDog on June 06, 2020, 01:55:29 PM
Thanks for answering!  Never played Advanced Tactics.  Just looked at in on Steam.  Looks about my speed.  Actually looks like a game I would MP.  Then again, so does Dominions 5.  And I own neither.  May have some time on my hands over the next few months to rectify that.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jomni on June 06, 2020, 05:46:34 PM
Looks like I'm quitting my game. I captured one minor nation. But rebellion just immobilised my northern forces. The damn rebels just got to my main dirt highway and stifled supplies between provinces. Then I realised the new province needs its own SHQ right?

The biggest challenge for me now is how to keep people happy. Tips appreciated.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on June 06, 2020, 06:01:28 PM
Looks like I'm quitting my game. I captured one minor nation. But rebellion just immobilised my northern forces. The damn rebels just got to my main dirt highway and stifled supplies between provinces. Then I realised the new province needs its own SHQ right?

The biggest challenge for me now is how to keep people happy. Tips appreciated.

The game can be harsh in the beginning, and it can regularly just wipe you out.

A second province/zone/city doesn't need it's own SHQ, as long as there is a decent connection. A single SHQ can service a large empire.

And I doubt you can construct a new SHQ when you are cut off from your old one.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jomni on June 06, 2020, 11:33:33 PM
And I doubt you can construct a new SHQ when you are cut off from your old one.

I did but they're useless as they can't get supply. My second region's industry hasn't been built yet.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 07, 2020, 12:29:17 AM
Looks like I'm quitting my game. I captured one minor nation. But rebellion just immobilised my northern forces. The damn rebels just got to my main dirt highway and stifled supplies between provinces. Then I realised the new province needs its own SHQ right?

The biggest challenge for me now is how to keep people happy. Tips appreciated.

Be a little bit careful with over expansion is the lesson I have learned. My first couple of playthroughs had hordes of Raiders piling through gaps in recently acquired land leaving my military pickets cut off . In effect my military did not have the capability to defend the borders that the politicians had landed them with !

My current play through has my popularity at 92%. Peace deals have been signed with a couple of factions allowing me to build and deploy forces in a more concentrated way. Before I built any regular infantry Divn's I had built an agri dome, metal mine and Industry I as well as a truck station and bureaucratic offices immediately after.

I have increased worker wages, built a zoo to increase happiness from the Strategem card and generally tried to not support draconian and arbitrary measures that my psychotic Governor keeps engaging in  :)

I am not playing on a hard level but the same as my previous ones which failed early and hard !

This may help but such is the variety in the game your circumstances may not have suited the above approach.

It does seem vital to keep the population happy though.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Yskonyn on June 07, 2020, 02:19:59 AM
The problem with too much happyness is that your people will become hard to recruit into your army when the time comes you need to expand it rapidly.
The people have become complacent and self indulgent by that time. It’ll cost you heaps of money to get an army going because people will not want to quit their great lives.
Its a cool aspect of the game, but a frustrating one for a warmonger lord! 😂
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 07, 2020, 03:06:48 AM
The problem with too much happyness is that your people will become hard to recruit into your army when the time comes you need to expand it rapidly.
The people have become complacent and self indulgent by that time. It’ll cost you heaps of money to get an army going because people will not want to quit their great lives.
Its a cool aspect of the game, but a frustrating one for a warmonger lord! 😂

At that point you bump up recruits salary and sign up bonus and slightly cut workers pay.

Voila !

The pacifists suddenly see the attraction of a career in the military  :)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on June 07, 2020, 09:01:32 AM
Not really a gameplay gripe, but my eyes sort of crossed when I saw how the Corps and Armies were organized. Brigades are made up of battalions -- okay, fair enough. Corps are made up of......regiments??! What. the.... And Armies, of course, are made up of divisions.

At that point I had to just accept that the OOBs are given flavor descriptions that don't interact with each other. This organizational group is made up of small units. This one is made up of medium sized units. This one is made up of large units.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: ArizonaTank on June 07, 2020, 09:52:43 AM
Not really a gameplay gripe, but my eyes sort of crossed when I saw how the Corps and Armies were organized. Brigades are made up of battalions -- okay, fair enough. Corps are made up of......regiments??! What. the.... And Armies, of course, are made up of divisions.

At that point I had to just accept that the OOBs are given flavor descriptions that don't interact with each other. This organizational group is made up of small units. This one is made up of medium sized units. This one is made up of large units.

It bugged me a bit as well...I actually went in and changed the names
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on June 07, 2020, 09:57:19 AM
What's weird is that we all know the designer knows about proper nesting OOBs; and the game design is based on an engine which can use proper OOBs; and the gameplay would definitely benefit from generating proper OOBs.

So I'm left super-confused about how these Armies and Corps and Brigades are supposed to relate to each other. They're all under command of one Supreme HQ at a time, fine, but... sigh.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 07, 2020, 10:18:53 AM
Doesn't much bother me, I'm to busy dealing with sand worm like things and slavers ;D
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Yskonyn on June 07, 2020, 02:34:16 PM
The OOB ‘issue’ made me scratch my head as well. Probably took away much more time than neccessary. Indeed strange its like this with the history of titles from Vic.
But if there are already a few of us mentioning it we might as well post it over at matrix. Perhaps we can get an answer on the why or get it on the ‘to-do’ list of Vic?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Black Robin on June 07, 2020, 02:45:27 PM
Doesn't much bother me too..!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 08, 2020, 01:11:47 PM
Oh come on guys.  Everyone knows that a Corps is made out of regiments.  Just like a 16 ounce cup of coffee is made out of 50 gallons of liquid.  I mean really... ;D

Just wanted to comment about the game being harsh.  In some ways I kind of like it as it has forced me to come up with some adaptations to my original strategy.  But only because I had a semi decent military.  I was lucky but I can see how just starting a new game can quickly end with how harsh the ai can be sometimes. 

Knowing what I know now should better prepare me for the next game whether it is harsh or not. 

I will say this though, the harshness that Shadow Empires visits upon you is much easier to understand than the harshness that Advanced Tactics was.  At least for me anyway.  I seem to click better with Shadow Empire.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Father Ted on June 08, 2020, 02:21:10 PM

Just wanted to comment about the game being harsh.  In some ways I kind of like it as it has forced me to come up with some adaptations to my original strategy.  But only because I had a semi decent military.  I was lucky but I can see how just starting a new game can quickly end with how harsh the ai can be sometimes. 


It's a new genre - roguelike4x
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 08, 2020, 02:48:33 PM
Oh come on guys.  Everyone knows that a Corps is made out of regiments.  Just like a 16 ounce cup of coffee is made out of 50 gallons of liquid.  I mean really... ;D

Just wanted to comment about the game being harsh.  In some ways I kind of like it as it has forced me to come up with some adaptations to my original strategy.  But only because I had a semi decent military.  I was lucky but I can see how just starting a new game can quickly end with how harsh the ai can be sometimes. 

Knowing what I know now should better prepare me for the next game whether it is harsh or not. 

I will say this though, the harshness that Shadow Empires visits upon you is much easier to understand than the harshness that Advanced Tactics was.  At least for me anyway.  I seem to click better with Shadow Empire.


Agree with this 100%.

I never could "get" ATG...not only was its UI very unfriendly but it seemed sterile in some way.

The personality just oozes out of every pore with Shadow Empire and the mechanics are complex but very very logical.

Many players have noted how they have solved an apparent conundrum by suddenlt working out why why out of the game a factory wansn't working to capacity for example and finding out when back in game that checking the inputs into the factory that one or another was deficient. It rewards logical thought.

No higher praise in my book.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: ArizonaTank on June 08, 2020, 03:14:08 PM

....

I never could "get" ATG...not only was its UI very unfriendly but it seemed sterile in some way.

,,,,

+1

I really wanted to love ATG...but UI was just so cumbersome. And yes, it was sterile.

SE has a much better UI...but it is not perfect either. SE UI not always intuitive and takes some getting used to.

SE is definitely a more "personal" game than ATG. SE does pull you in.

One aspect of SE I like is that you only have indirect control of many aspects of the game. You really depend on an AI run private sector businesses to supplement your efforts. So making your little nation safe for business is a key to success.  You don't control them directly, so you can only set the table and wait for them to come to dinner. This reminds me of one of my favorite games: Distant Worlds Universe.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on June 08, 2020, 03:43:20 PM
I loved ATG and see at lot of it Shadow Empire.  You guys who say it was sterile never played the mods.

I played one game of SE on Beginners to see how the game worked and then restarted with a harsher world and normal difficulty.  Started with 3 large enemy armies within 3 hexes of my city.  Happiness dropping fast due to danger.  Fallen to last place on % of planet I've explored (and thus the hidden bounties for exploring).  Finally beaten two of the armies and can now start exploring.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 08, 2020, 04:31:07 PM
ATG is one of my all-time favorite games but I just don't see myself returning to it because of the heaps of QOL changes in SE.  It was a bit of a clickfest, but the basic counter shuffling wasn't too bad once you got a feel for the rhythm of it.  However, it was never fun for me painstakingly assigning replacement soldiers and individual vehicles to dozens of divisions while simultaneously marching Engineer companies around the map to build improvements -- all the while juggling manual research decisions and analyzing just how much supply you need to produce this turn without getting too big a surplus that it's wasteful of your IPs.

Blegh.  The fact that SE more-or-less automates all this has me never looking back.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on June 08, 2020, 04:35:40 PM
The later versions of ATG had automated refilling of units. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 08, 2020, 04:37:34 PM
Really?  I recall always having to manually send dudes on trains from my HQ to the frontlines.  Hmmm.  I guess I never quite figured that mechanic out.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Myrmidon on June 08, 2020, 04:58:33 PM
Dammit!!  Matrix sends me a 14 year anniversary coupon right after I get done reading this thread!

It's like they knew man!!

Now I'm downloading another game to an already full library.  Looking forward to it...
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: GroggyGrognard on June 08, 2020, 05:24:38 PM
I could not find the time to dive into the game this past weekend. I really wanted to.

Dammit!!  Matrix sends me a 14 year anniversary coupon right after I get done reading this thread!

It's like they knew man!!

Now I'm downloading another game to an already full library.  Looking forward to it...

Good...good...let the anniversary coupon flow through you.

I spent my anniversary coupon on SE also.

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 08, 2020, 05:43:29 PM
I might be the only one who really likes the UI, i think it's slick for how much information is available. I seem to find another function every time i use it. Did you know you can throttle the traffic of your logistic network. Once you use it up on a segment you see the black color stripe, that's is why sometimes stuff doesn't all get through. Select your S1 HQ, and hit unit admin on the right, bingo, set your percentages. From the S1 to zone, S1 to unit, zone to S1, replacement to units....come on, you didn't know that.

I'm hoping the game holds up late mid, to late game, that's where these games usually break down into a endless uninteresting slog of micro.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 09, 2020, 12:43:08 AM
I might be the only one who really likes the UI, i think it's slick for how much information is available. I seem to find another function every time i use it. Did you know you can throttle the traffic of your logistic network. Once you use it up on a segment you see the black color stripe, that's is why sometimes stuff doesn't all get through. Select your S1 HQ, and hit unit admin on the right, bingo, set your percentages. From the S1 to zone, S1 to unit, zone to S1, replacement to units....come on, you didn't know that.

I'm hoping the game holds up late mid, to late game, that's where these games usually break down into a endless uninteresting slog of micro.

I think many of the criticisms (such as they are) about the UI come from unfamiliarity.

Like you I am finding it tremendously useful once you start knowing your way around. I am not one for hotkeys and I only use the Strategic Move,Build Roads and hide units keys but nonetheless find it really quick to get around now.

Anyway now back to trying to reverse a sweeping territory grab from a Slaver Minor adjacent to another Slaver Minor in my north west I am already at war with....if I ever see another rampaging motorcycle it will be too soon.  😁
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Father Ted on June 09, 2020, 04:51:56 AM
The later versions of ATG had automated refilling of units.

I loved this.  I think I had more fun designing units and an OOB to sit them in than actually fighting the war.  Even so I still struggled to get the rail network to function.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Manassassas on June 09, 2020, 05:16:19 AM
Is anyone else having problems with their Economic Council not discovering the basic techs? My current game has ground to a halt because of a lack of power - and my economic council are happily discovering advanced techs but not basic ones which would allow me to generate power. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 09, 2020, 05:55:13 AM
Is anyone else having problems with their Economic Council not discovering the basic techs? My current game has ground to a halt because of a lack of power - and my economic council are happily discovering advanced techs but not basic ones which would allow me to generate power.

Once you have discovered three techs in one section, if you started actually researching (rather than discovering) those tech's then the next section starts to be discovered. Best to prevent that until you get power tech's
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 09, 2020, 05:58:45 AM
I read some where that you don't want to choose a higher tier tech until you get all the lesser ones because it won't go back. 13 minute mark. Not sure about that, it would weird not being able to go back, I'd post over at Matrix forum and see what Vic says it that's the case.


Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Manassassas on June 09, 2020, 07:32:19 AM
Is anyone else having problems with their Economic Council not discovering the basic techs? My current game has ground to a halt because of a lack of power - and my economic council are happily discovering advanced techs but not basic ones which would allow me to generate power.

Once you have discovered three techs in one section, if you started actually researching (rather than discovering) those tech's then the next section starts to be discovered. Best to prevent that until you get power tech's

I read some where that you don't want to choose a higher tier tech until you get all the lesser ones because it won't go back. 13 minute mark. Not sure about that, it would weird not being able to go back, I'd post over at Matrix forum and see what Vic says it that's the case.




Thanks both. That's made it a bit clearer and it seems like my current empire might be a bit of a bust so I'll restart.

With most things in this game it seems like a patient, slow start brings greater reward in the long term. There's no zergling rush in Shadow Empire!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 09, 2020, 07:51:07 AM
I'm just wondering if that's a 100%, what if you finish a tech and the only choice is a lesser one next. I'll post at matrix
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Manassassas on June 09, 2020, 08:12:06 AM
I'm just wondering if that's a 100%, what if you finish a tech and the only choice is a lesser one next. I'll post at matrix

In the video he says that you can still research those "lower" techs, but once you open up the higher levels then the chances of your scientists discovering technologies from the lower ones is diluted because techs from further up the tree are also in the pot of possibilities. That makes sense as in the game I'm about to give up on, my scientists said they had discovered the possibility of getting power from volcanoes but that was a much more advanced option than the power plants or solar farms at the bottom end of the tree.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on June 09, 2020, 08:17:45 AM

Thanks both. That's made it a bit clearer and it seems like my current empire might be a bit of a bust so I'll restart.

With most things in this game it seems like a patient, slow start brings greater reward in the long term. There's no zergling rush in Shadow Empire!

While that's true I think there should be a way to customize the beginning of your empire more.

IE you can have a more Mad Max type of beginning that makes you rely on raiding and hit and run tactics more at the cost of less base production and slower tech growth.

A "bunker society" that is technologically superior but has extremely limited manpower and low integration rates.

I can see a number of different ideas...not sure how workable they are but just a thought.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 09, 2020, 08:20:15 AM
Those are the answers I'm getting in reply.basically more choices open, less percentage to get what you want.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 09, 2020, 09:26:26 AM
The problem with too much happyness is that your people will become hard to recruit into your army when the time comes you need to expand it rapidly.
The people have become complacent and self indulgent by that time. It’ll cost you heaps of money to get an army going because people will not want to quit their great lives.
Its a cool aspect of the game, but a frustrating one for a warmonger lord! 😂

I believe that is what those free strategem cards that cause fear or unrest can be used for.  Not only do you get a free Fate Point or 2 but you get your people upset enough to want to leave their cushy lives and join the army.  Haha!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 09, 2020, 11:34:06 PM
Is anyone else having issues with crashes when trying to access the Management tab?  I used to have it happen every so often, but now in my current campaign it consistently happens every time.  I've opened a thread on the Matrix forum, but just wondering if anyone else has run into this.

The later versions of ATG had automated refilling of units.

I just fired ATG up again since my latest SE campaign is tanked, and goddamn - I don't know how I played this game for so many hours and never noticed this.  Looks like I'm a total noob.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: devoncop on June 10, 2020, 12:38:04 AM
Is anyone else having issues with crashes when trying to access the Management tab?  I used to have it happen every so often, but now in my current campaign it consistently happens every time.  I've opened a thread on the Matrix forum, but just wondering if anyone else has run into this.

The later versions of ATG had automated refilling of units.

I just fired ATG up again since my latest SE campaign is tanked, and goddamn - I don't know how I played this game for so many hours and never noticed this.  Looks like I'm a total noob.



No crashes at all for me yet but there is the first official patch due out later today (the open beta one is already available) which may sort your problem out.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 10, 2020, 06:06:39 PM
I sent the save file to Vic, so we'll see what he finds.  I have a feeling the save file is just corrupted somehow, which kinda sucks, but this issue seems pretty uncommon.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on June 18, 2020, 10:11:53 AM
Was having a lot of trouble with logistics and keeping my troops supplied.  Found this thread that helped a lot: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4834257
Biggest help was nationalizing my Truck Station.  Raised Logistics points from 400 to 1000 and doubled their range.  Only caused a 3 point drop in pop happiness. Later upgrading to 2nd level raised points to 4000! 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on June 18, 2020, 12:07:39 PM
Most times I do this first turn. I try to nationalize any asset that's in short supply, metal, oil, as long as I have the money, if I don't have the money I'll try to trade more to get it. The private sector just seems to take to long to upgrade an asset which hurts when in short supply. Killed me last game with my one metal resource. I never could get the 1000 coin to nationalize it( first one is 500 to nationalize) so building anything using metal was slow. Ended up getting wiped out around turn 70, I was trying upgrade my IP factory and oil at the same time and it took so long I started to run out of food, then the AI attacked . This game is awesome   :bd:
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on June 18, 2020, 01:59:04 PM
I have to admit that I've been beat by the a.i. (on normal difficulty) like a rug so many times I lost count.  I've rage quitted (<- proper English?) at least once with this game. 

You would think I'd walk away and never come back but when I really think about why I lost it always pointed to one or two error's I made in setting up my infrastructure, leadership, or resource management.  I deserved to lose.  The way this game is organized however in terms of information, menu commands, etc. is such that it's easier to see what you have done wrong and correct it compared to anything AGEOD puts out.  Fudge AGEOD.  Pregnant female dogs.

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Father Ted on June 18, 2020, 03:11:49 PM
I've rage quitted (<- proper English?)

I think rage-quat sounds better, but "rage-quit" is probably proper.  I know we have some genuine writery-guys around here who could point us in the right direction...

As to the game, I'm about 30 turns into my first go - just fumbling my way through.  Watched a lot of DasTactic and read a lot of forum threads, but am still pretty clueless - there's just so much going on.  I've spent a fair amount of time with ATG, so the wargamey portion is okay, but the resource management and distribution...Don't get me wrong, I think as a game it's a great achievement and I'm looking forward to unravelling its mysteries.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on June 18, 2020, 03:23:21 PM
I love the sound of rage-quat, so as a professional writer I officially endorse this phrase.

("rage-quit" is definitely proper, though.)

I sent the save file to Vic, so we'll see what he finds.  I have a feeling the save file is just corrupted somehow, which kinda sucks, but this issue seems pretty uncommon.

Following up on this, Vic replied and said the bug will be fixed in the next beta patch.  This was a week or so ago, and I haven't checked to see if my savegame is salvageable, but happy with the quick and courteous response.  O0
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on June 18, 2020, 04:09:50 PM
Am currrently having trouble with energy.  All the good factories/facilities need some.  Reducing production helped but not enough.  Then finally looked and saw energy being sent to units.  WTF?  Turns out those fancy plasma gun equipped troops need energy when in combat!  Think I need to nationalize that new private oil well so I can feed a power plant and fuel the tanks I designed but can't build for lack of fuel. Have solar plant under research but it's only advancing 4% per turn! If I wait for that I can save 1000 credits on the nationalization but can't do everything else I want to do that needs energy.  Trade off after trade off in this game!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: JasonPratt on June 18, 2020, 06:31:46 PM
As a self-published author, I approve of "rage-squat" as a colorful alternative.  :coolsmiley:

(But agreed, "rage-quit" is correct. "Rage-quittered" might also be technically correct in a different way.)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: -budd- on July 10, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
Check out the new edition in the latest beta, history options. Vic is the man, game just keeps getting better.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4824133&mpage=12&key=
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: CJReich46 on July 10, 2020, 03:19:51 PM
Check out the new edition in the latest beta, history options. Vic is the man, game just keeps getting better.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4824133&mpage=12&key=

Wow. Vic is just amazing. I saw the new History Options.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on July 10, 2020, 03:22:34 PM
Hot diggity dog!


(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692449927787315251/731163220395425852/unknown.png)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on July 15, 2020, 12:32:07 AM
"Rage Squat" to me just sounds like an angry poop.  But I could certainly see myself popping a rage-squat after unexpectedly losing a game I was really into.

This game looks awesome, and I've already wishlisted it.  Only two questions:

1) Is the "Vic" who designed this game somebody who's designed other titles I know?

2) How is the "flavor" for the game?  Does each faction play like a really intricate combination of bonuses and maluses, or does the game lend itself to a very distinctive play style and characterization for each faction?  Or is it just open-sandbox and you get to pick whatever bonuses and maluses you want and then imagine your population however it works out?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Pete Dero on July 15, 2020, 01:47:56 AM
1) Is the "Vic" who designed this game somebody who's designed other titles I know?

Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa
Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue
Decisive Campaigns: The Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris
Advanced tactics series
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on July 15, 2020, 07:03:59 AM
"Rage Squat" to me just sounds like an angry poop.  But I could certainly see myself popping a rage-squat after unexpectedly losing a game I was really into.

This game looks awesome, and I've already wishlisted it.  Only two questions:

1) Is the "Vic" who designed this game somebody who's designed other titles I know?

2) How is the "flavor" for the game?  Does each faction play like a really intricate combination of bonuses and maluses, or does the game lend itself to a very distinctive play style and characterization for each faction?  Or is it just open-sandbox and you get to pick whatever bonuses and maluses you want and then imagine your population however it works out?

To answer your second question my feel based on 5 games played so far is that each time you start a new game you pick whatever bonuses and maluses you want.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Pete Dero on July 15, 2020, 07:21:41 AM
A great source for info on the game is DasTactic.

His tutorial playlist (20 videos !) : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGB6RkFB7ZmPoXDAaR8FbM3xujwMsDgEv

He also played a number of games on his Twitch channel : https://www.twitch.tv/dastactic/videos?filter=archives&sort=time
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Rayfer on July 15, 2020, 08:16:05 AM
A great source for info on the game is DasTactic.

His tutorial playlist (20 videos !) : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGB6RkFB7ZmPoXDAaR8FbM3xujwMsDgEv

He also played a number of games on his Twitch channel : https://www.twitch.tv/dastactic/videos?filter=archives&sort=time

He just added this one today which covers the significant changes in the most recent update.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2xL5wk6uGY
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on July 15, 2020, 08:28:49 AM
Good stuff, Pete!  I've watched one or two videos on the game, and I've been awful intrigued by the mechanics I've seen.  DasTactic basically showed me how to play Distant Worlds: Universe.  He does good vids.

That is an impressive list of titles from Vic.  Thanks!

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on August 18, 2020, 11:49:06 AM
So after struggling through probably a dozen if not more restarts over the past week I've finally started "getting it".

Logistics is still somewhat of a mystery besides "build more truck depots" if I see any bottlenecks.

My current game has me with 6 zones, 2 minors won via diplomacy, 2 minors conquered and creating a new zone that was way out on it's own with nothing around.

over the past week I've probably put in 20+ hours.

I think it's safe to say I'm hooked.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: CJReich46 on August 19, 2020, 10:42:02 AM
Das is doing a play through, but he has a link to a flag mod on his You Tube playthrough

 :)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Father Ted on August 20, 2020, 03:17:12 PM

I think it's safe to say I'm hooked.


I'm "stuck" 40 turns into my first play through.  That represents a fair few hours.  I was really smitten at first with the strategic, economic and (of course) logistical mechanisms on show, but my game is developing at a really slow pace.  Maybe I need to go back and try a smaller world...
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on August 20, 2020, 05:33:13 PM

I think it's safe to say I'm hooked.


I'm "stuck" 40 turns into my first play through.  That represents a fair few hours.  I was really smitten at first with the strategic, economic and (of course) logistical mechanisms on show, but my game is developing at a really slow pace.  Maybe I need to go back and try a smaller world...

It does slow down...I'm still taking over minors at a good clip but I currently have all councils at this point and my tech research speed feels glacial.

I also am metal strapped so that is limiting my growth and expansion. There were very few initial deposits so that has hurt. I am mostly using infantry and MG infantry with 1 brigade of light armor and a battalion of motorized artillery to push on the capital city of whomever I am at odds with at the time. I'll use MG infantry to defend a border if I have multiple fronts until I can swing my armor around to deal with the interlopers.

I'm on turn 78 and I'm still in the first two advanced tech areas. Although I did start my game at tech 3 so I had to research all the basic techs.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on August 24, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
Really, really addictive. Hoping the UI improves. Frustrated with borders.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on October 02, 2020, 11:25:16 AM
I cannot quit playing it. I wake up sometimes thinking about this game...it is interdering with other games I want to play. The two biggest roadblocks I have run into are:

1. When to create a new SHQ

2. When/how are my logistics bad, i.e. troops not getting replacements, etc.

The answers are naturally related. D'Turtle helped on the Matrix forum. I quote him below and add my own bits.

1. New SHQ: 

When do you need a second SHQ?
When your logistics can no longer handle pulling everything to a single SHQ and then pushing it out to all the zones and units. When exactly this happens can vary by quite a lot:
Terrain (mountains making it impossible to build rails or paved roads), metal availability ( allowing you to build rail everywhere), physical size (at some point even rail has limits, roads obviously a lot faster), size of economy (with a few large cities you can reach production numbers that are not really possible to push around each turn), cut off areas (maybe taking over a minor far from the rest of your cities via diplomacy), etc.

Is there a limit or penalty point on how many cities an SHQ can handle?
No, but in reality probably yes. Remember, everything a zone produces that it doesn't need itself gets sent to the SHQ and from the SHQ to different zones. This can require a huge amount of logistical points.

How many troops and OHQs can an SHQ handle?
As many as your logistical network can support. Use the bottleneck to see how much of a buffer you have with your current logistics and use preview mode to get a feeling for how many logistical points units need. You can also take a look under Stats-> Unit logistics to get summary values of the amount of food, fuel, energy, and ammo your units need every turn.

2. Logistical Supply strangulation
Take a look at the bottleneck overlay of logistics. It is the left-over logistics divided by the initial logistics (so basically the spare capacity). When this starts dropping below 50% or so right outside the SHQ hex you should look into upgrading truck stations or rail stations. At some point you will reach a point where you simply can't keep up with updating them, or it gets prohibitively expensive to upgrade.

You can also click on the SHQ and take a look at the supply tab. It shows how many of the available logistical points (for the SHQ) were used to move everything from the SHQ to zones, from zones to the SHQ, from the SHQ to units, and for replacements.

So, when you start getting a bottleneck/restriction near your SHQ, you need to either bump up the trucks/rail capacity at the SHQ or make an new SHQ. The bottleneck is caused by supplies/replacements/materials coming in as well as going out. Making rail/truck centers at other cities relieves some of the pressure and extends ranges, but a lot of the stuff has to come from your SHQ, as it is the center of it all, the main depot, especially for supply and replacements and the volume restriction will be worst there. Supply depots also help with network extension, but not much with volume.

There is not a single supply report that summarizes all of this.

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on October 02, 2020, 11:35:38 AM
Third big problem - Research. There are two types of research -  linear and binary. Binary is a topic you spend points on and then you get "it" all at once..research finished. Linear research is progressve, i.e. you get better at what you are researching over time as you put more points into it turn after turn. So you almost NEVER can get to 100% and if you are not watching it, you wind up going 30 turns and realize, Hey! Nothing is happening and i am behind on all my R&D because I have been pumping poiints into a black hole to get an extra 1% of proficiency.

sadly (aggravatingly) the choice screen for what to research inexcusably does NOT tell you if a topic is linear or binary. AFTER you have chosen it, the next turn you have to go to the appropriate directory council detail and read through it to see if the item is linear or binary. This is an easily fixed item that the dev has not hinted at addressing. Arghh.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on October 05, 2020, 06:58:17 AM
I agree the research screens could be a bit more clear in explaining what category will lead to inventions and what categories will lead to other theories opening up.

Took me about 5 games to memorize what does what but that was only for the early part of the research tree. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: MOS:96B2P on October 16, 2020, 06:21:44 PM
I cannot quit playing it. I wake up sometimes thinking about this game...it is interdering with other games I want to play.

 :)  This is one of the most complimentary statements I've read about a PC game.  I also read somewhere that its going to be released on Steam in December.  I might end up getting this one. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Sparhawk on October 16, 2020, 09:44:57 PM
I've been waiting with great anticipation for the release on Steam. There are few games I will buy before a sale and this is one. My money is burning a hole in my pocket.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on October 16, 2020, 09:58:54 PM
I've been waiting with great anticipation for the release on Steam. There are few games I will buy before a sale and this is one. My money is burning a hole in my pocket.

Why not just buy it now from slitherine and then when it releases on steam get the free steam code from slitherine?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on October 20, 2020, 08:26:31 AM
One thing I feel the game is missing is any kind of air or navel element.

That  said I’m not sure either would work well with the scope the game is presented in.

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on October 20, 2020, 09:29:33 AM
I think Vic took a poll on what he should concentrate on next and both naval and air was on the list.  I'm guessing part of a DLC depending on how much money he made with the release.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on October 20, 2020, 09:34:32 AM
What I really want is Space and planetary conquest on epic scale.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on October 20, 2020, 09:44:25 AM
I think Vic took a poll on what he should concentrate on next and both naval and air was on the list.  I'm guessing part of a DLC depending on how much money he made with the release.

I hope not. The game desperately needs better feedback for management and UI improvements once it is debugged. I can live without air and naval forever if need be. The game scope as-is is awesome already. Given the range of possible atmospheric compositions and densities and the range of gravities possible, discrete air elements seem kind of dumb. Maybe just a die roll modifier would make more sense on some planets.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on October 20, 2020, 10:02:21 AM
What I really want is Space and planetary conquest on epic scale.

That sounds good too but I don’t know how it would work in the scope of the current game.

Does the planet building / takeover aspects get pared down once you reach extra planetary travel tech? Do you keep it to make a really long game. How do you run simultaneous turns on multiple planets?

I love the concept but I have concerns on being able to execute effectively. Do you go the Spore route that each level of hierarchical growth shaved off some of the minutia and expand the grand strategy elements?

Or design a unique solution?

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on October 20, 2020, 10:08:43 AM
What I really want is Space and planetary conquest on epic scale.

That sounds good too but I don’t know how it would work in the scope of the current game.

Does the planet building / takeover aspects get pared down once you reach extra planetary travel tech? Do you keep it to make a really long game. How do you run simultaneous turns on multiple planets?

I love the concept but I have concerns on being able to execute effectively. Do you go the Spore route that each level of hierarchical growth shaved off some of the minutia and expand the grand strategy elements?

Or design a unique solution?

I would like to see it done in the manner EotFS handled it. I'm shocked that so few if any games since have really tried this. You have a strategic layer that has a map with "X" number of planets on it separated by space lanes. Fleets move between planets and can transport military units from planet to planet. Units land on planets at which point the tactical layer is revealed where units move, fight, and take over cities and centers of production and mining. Players can move seamlessly between the strategic galaxy layer and the tactical layer of each planet.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on October 20, 2020, 11:22:23 AM
I think Vic took a poll on what he should concentrate on next and both naval and air was on the list.  I'm guessing part of a DLC depending on how much money he made with the release.

I hope not. The game desperately needs better feedback for management and UI improvements once it is debugged. I can live without air and naval forever if need be. The game scope as-is is awesome already. Given the range of possible atmospheric compositions and densities and the range of gravities possible, discrete air elements seem kind of dumb. Maybe just a die roll modifier would make more sense on some planets.
Sorry I was unclear.  They were on the list of options to be voted on.  Don't know what came out on top.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on October 20, 2020, 01:55:55 PM
I went and looked at the poll results. I am in the minority.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: MOS:96B2P on October 20, 2020, 02:12:19 PM
I don't have the game yet.  I'm waiting for it to release on Steam and giving the developer time to work out bugs etc.  For now I'm reading the manual and watching U-Tube videos.  I copied the below from the manual as I thought it was kind of interesting & funny.  Similar to a Gold Standard the game has an Energy Standard.  They put some thought into this game. 

5.1.9.9. CREDITS (CR)
This is the monetary unit used in Shadow Empire. It is actually Liquid Energy kept inside a metallic container in the form of a coin or (with larger denominations) a bar. It also includes derivatives and paper money claims on Liquid Energy. The game abstracts all this for you and a Credit is just a Credit as far as you are concerned. The amount of Credits in circulation varies due to inflation or deflation and scavenging. You use Credits to pay Leaders, Workers, recruit Soldiers and Colonists, to trade and do Diplomacy.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on October 28, 2020, 05:49:31 PM
So...  Any reason I shouldn't go ahead and take the plunge on my Matrix 50% discount (expires on 11/30) for this title?  I figure I'll buy on Black Friday, just in case it goes on sale.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Tpek on November 01, 2020, 10:14:38 AM
What I really want is Space and planetary conquest on epic scale.

That sounds good too but I don’t know how it would work in the scope of the current game.

Does the planet building / takeover aspects get pared down once you reach extra planetary travel tech? Do you keep it to make a really long game. How do you run simultaneous turns on multiple planets?

I love the concept but I have concerns on being able to execute effectively. Do you go the Spore route that each level of hierarchical growth shaved off some of the minutia and expand the grand strategy elements?

Or design a unique solution?

I would like to see it done in the manner EotFS handled it. I'm shocked that so few if any games since have really tried this. You have a strategic layer that has a map with "X" number of planets on it separated by space lanes. Fleets move between planets and can transport military units from planet to planet. Units land on planets at which point the tactical layer is revealed where units move, fight, and take over cities and centers of production and mining. Players can move seamlessly between the strategic galaxy layer and the tactical layer of each planet.

Late to the party (as always :P), but what you describe reminds me of good ol' Star General.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: MOS:96B2P on November 13, 2020, 11:35:08 AM
Shadow Empire now has Air Forces.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4910487&mpage=1&#4910487
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on November 13, 2020, 01:23:57 PM
What is this moistening I am feeling in my loins???
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Gusington on November 13, 2020, 01:47:02 PM
JH can diagnose.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on November 13, 2020, 01:52:48 PM
Looks like it's available as a Beta patch.  They're looking for people to play test the air units for them. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on November 13, 2020, 01:54:39 PM
JH can diagnose.

What!? You're like the loin moistening God.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/6f4a6e031a7f1ab94a2e05517b464d8c/tenor.gif?itemid=17276054)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Gusington on November 13, 2020, 02:22:37 PM
I asked your mom very nicely to keep that pic hidden!!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on November 20, 2020, 12:09:47 PM
The implementation of the air system is roaring forward in leaps and bounds. Those interested in the game should try the latest beta.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Boggit on November 20, 2020, 12:59:27 PM
I asked your mom very nicely to keep that pic hidden!!
:DD
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: MOS:96B2P on November 21, 2020, 08:59:23 AM
Some interesting information from Matrix about Shadow Empires new air units and the Steam release.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4913338&mpage=1&#4913338
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on November 26, 2020, 09:15:51 AM
This is still in Beta.  Is it worth $32 in current form during the Christmas Sale?

I love Advanced Tactics and played it a lot.  But I found against the AI it was too easy once I got the hang of how to play.  How does Shadow Empire compare?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Grim.Reaper on November 26, 2020, 09:19:23 AM
i don’t believe this is still in beta, was officially released awhile ago.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Pete Dero on November 26, 2020, 09:41:05 AM
Is it worth $32 in current form during the Christmas Sale?

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on November 26, 2020, 10:17:30 AM
i don’t believe this is still in beta, was officially released awhile ago.

Well, Vic has been constantly pushing beta's since this came out. It was never announced as being a beta release, it was fully functioning since release, but many features were added since.

I consider it a piece of art which every grog should own. And you will have many hours of discovery before you master the game enough to dismiss the AI.

For the full experience where your technology race is vital you will have to go multiplayer though.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on November 26, 2020, 01:35:41 PM
This has been a deeply engrossing game for me, but I think I've finally mastered about 25% of the interface!  To play this title well takes the love and devotion of a game like Distant Worlds: Universe, but my sense is that it's ready to play.  I ran into one or two minor configuration issues, but it has been rock-solid since.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Father Ted on November 26, 2020, 03:51:58 PM

I love Advanced Tactics and played it a lot.  But I found against the AI it was too easy once I got the hang of how to play.  How does Shadow Empire compare?

I would say that you get ATG plus maybe another game-and-a-half's worth of play with this.  The actual combat is ATG, but there's a lot more depth to the tech tree and logistical side of things. Plus you get a bit of RPG-lite in terms of managing the NPCs who run your empire. And there's some city-management/economics.  In fact, my only problem with the game is that it's a bit overwhelming in terms of stuff to remember to do each turn.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on November 26, 2020, 06:03:52 PM
I appreciate the information.  I think I'm going to buy it.  Seems like Conquest of Elysium - but better and in a post-apocalypse.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on November 27, 2020, 12:19:40 AM
Probably ten times as complicated as CoE III or IV.  Still very fun, but MUCH more complicated.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on November 27, 2020, 08:48:19 AM
This is still in Beta.  Is it worth $32 in current form during the Christmas Sale?

I love Advanced Tactics and played it a lot.  But I found against the AI it was too easy once I got the hang of how to play.  How does Shadow Empire compare?

Oh, yes. EASILY worth it if you like boardgame style wargames with hexes and military style combat units. And this game is SOOO much more. Imagine a the old AH boardgame Blitzkrieg with a cool randomizer, a Sci-fi twist, and making full use of a computer's record-keeping ability for supply, moral, the economy, etc. It's Advanced Tactics ++.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: fabius on November 27, 2020, 03:37:20 PM
i don’t believe this is still in beta, was officially released awhile ago.

I consider it a piece of art which every grog should own. And you will have many hours of discovery before you master the game enough to dismiss the AI.


This so much

Shadow Empire is the only game ever where I got so immersed in it's world that I have not stopped playing my very first game to make us updates.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on November 27, 2020, 04:06:39 PM
I downloaded the manual.  Read the first 75 pages straight through.  Then skipped to the "how to" play the game.  He gave a lot better detail this time on how the system worked than he did for Advanced Tactics.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on November 29, 2020, 06:32:43 PM
I have just spent the evening starting up a new Empire with the newest patch, with aircraft.

Even though I was playing a rather fertile planet, with a water and food surplus, the whole evening was spent building up a basic economy, paying through the nose to collect all the iron to bootstrap my industry. That meant an underfunded military was suppressing alien lifeforms and limited to securing a single viable zone, while peacing out with the two civilized minor neighbours.

Next session I will build an army to conquer one of them, though.

This is a good game: it creates a story with WWII into SF technology while you have leaders with their own stupid opinions and incompetencies. The human management game is true to real life.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on November 29, 2020, 08:47:35 PM
This is a very challenging game.  I spent the first dozen turns building a metal mine and an industrial plant.  I've now built two regiments and have been clobbering independents - and building my road network.

You really start slow in the game if there is no existing road net at your start point.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on November 30, 2020, 07:25:07 AM
I've been resisting this, or any game really, due to too many games and too little time.  However with my 50% off Matrix coupon coming in 10 days, and the 20% off sale on now, resistance will be futile.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on November 30, 2020, 07:18:01 PM
I am having a blast. On a medium planet I have turtled up with six cities and am building everything out. I have finished the tech tree and as soon as I have a few more hi-tech plants operating ( so I can replace those expensive losses) I am going to roll into the #1 nation behind a wave of thermonuclear missile barrages. There are, I think, only three other majors left, two huge and one my size. we will see if those aircraft are worth their cost.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on November 30, 2020, 07:33:53 PM
I've found out that mounted nomads eat slug throwing infantry.

But mounted nomads hate artillery and MG buggies with even light armor.   :)

I'm only about 18 turns in the game.  It has a slow start and then ramps up.  You can really screw yourself if you don't develop your industry and raw materials properly early on.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on November 30, 2020, 11:07:50 PM
What organizational level do you guys usually start with?  I waffle between Only Supreme and starting with Basic 4.  Seems like with Only Supreme, it can take a long time to get new techs and OOBs moving.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on December 03, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
A great source for info on the game is DasTactic.

His tutorial playlist (20 videos !) : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGB6RkFB7ZmPoXDAaR8FbM3xujwMsDgEv

He also played a number of games on his Twitch channel : https://www.twitch.tv/dastactic/videos?filter=archives&sort=time

I read most of the manual before playing.  This includes all of the "how to" chapters through where he dives deep under the hood of the engine to explain the various parts.

I did not understand the game very well from all of this reading.  I played Advanced Tactics Gold a lot - and the military and logistics model is similar.  Still, I kept blowing it.

Then I started watching Das Tactics Videos.  Wow!

I hate game videos.  But this guy gets to the point and clarifies a very complicated game.

If you buy this game, or have not been satisfied with your play I strongly recommend these videos!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on December 03, 2020, 10:49:39 AM
Right on the nose AB - I like how Das gives you a quick and dirty answer or suggestion on some things and then will dig into the nuts and bolts of it.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 03, 2020, 11:25:55 AM
I sometimes watch Das, and sometimes he explains something explicitly, but I learn more from him making big mistakes.

Like yesterday he started a war with a major, with lots of good new tanks, who cut through the enemy lines like a knife through butter in the opening of the offensive. And then all his fuel was spent, and they became sitting ducks, while there was no way he could bring up fuel production on short notice. That was funny and a deliciously useful lesson :-)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: jamus34 on December 03, 2020, 11:31:23 AM
Yup, the one game I went long on I found metal being my major bottleneck. I couldn't find / generate enough of it so I had to rely on a lot of infantry and use my armor in "tip of the spear" approach along with some artillery. I could win most battles / wars but it really slowed me down.

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Father Ted on December 03, 2020, 12:01:18 PM
I sometimes watch Das, and sometimes he explains something explicitly, but I learn more from him making big mistakes.

Like yesterday he started a war with a major, with lots of good new tanks, who cut through the enemy lines like a knife through butter in the opening of the offensive. And then all his fuel was spent, and they became sitting ducks, while there was no way he could bring up fuel production on short notice. That was funny and a deliciously useful lesson :-)

Spoiler alert!  I haven't seen that one yet!  Only joking of course.  I watched all of the first "season" before starting to play the game and it was invaluable.  I'm catching up now on season two to remind me how to play before starting a new game.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 03, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
I sometimes watch Das, and sometimes he explains something explicitly, but I learn more from him making big mistakes.

Like yesterday he started a war with a major, with lots of good new tanks, who cut through the enemy lines like a knife through butter in the opening of the offensive. And then all his fuel was spent, and they became sitting ducks, while there was no way he could bring up fuel production on short notice. That was funny and a deliciously useful lesson :-)

Spoiler alert!  I haven't seen that one yet!  Only joking of course.  I watched all of the first "season" before starting to play the game and it was invaluable.  I'm catching up now on season two to remind me how to play before starting a new game.

This is a case where I think it can be more amusing to see it coming while it is being played out.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on December 03, 2020, 12:36:10 PM
Out on Steam now.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Pete Dero on December 03, 2020, 01:43:37 PM
Out on Steam now.

https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup - Steam Release Stream with Hexaboo
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 03, 2020, 08:57:02 PM
Today I learned two valuable lessons. 1: Do NOT overbuild the city closest to your front line or your army will be paralyzed by supply shortages.
2: When your army is paralyzed by supply shortages, Nukes are your FRIEND. You nuke the nearest big enemy troop concentrations and a couple of his cities and voila! He has the same problem you do AND if you are clever you can walk into his nearest city ( well, its glowing ruins) and start prepping a new supply point!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: spelk on December 04, 2020, 02:09:02 AM
Been away from the scene for quite some time now folks (waves to all the Grogs), but I've had my beady eye on Shadow Empire for a long time, since it was announced by Vic.

I've got the added trauma of trying to get this to work under Linux, it does not. Nor does any of Vic's games sadly, I thought perhaps Steam and the Proton thing may do it, but alas no. So I have a crappy old laptop stuggling with Win10 just to play this game.

Anyways, I thought Shadow Empire would tickle a need of mine to go grim sci fi future into wargaming, and what with Decisive Campaigns:Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris (and a good deal of support and encouragement from the Grogs here) being the game that broke through the opaque curtain of operational wargaming, I thought I might be able to digest this new era of VR Designs goodness.

Oh boy, this is quite a shift in complexity for this old man..

I did watch a number of DasTactic's videos and they are helpful, along with some other folks who have and are now doing more Shadow Empire content:

TortugaPower
Nookrium
ManTheMaker
Wadestar

to name a few. But I can see, this is one for the long haul and I'll probably have to take in a lot of tuition from the lets players out there to actually grok the scope of this game.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Boggit on December 04, 2020, 04:21:49 AM

Anyways, I thought Shadow Empire would tickle a need of mine to go grim sci fi future into wargaming, ...
If you want a grim Sci Fi future into Wargaming have a look at Gladius by Slitherine. It's Warhammer 40K, and a grim world of endless war. :knuppel2:

It is said to run on Linux so is likely to play OK on your set up.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/489630/Warhammer_40000_Gladius__Relics_of_War/
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: spelk on December 04, 2020, 05:52:44 AM
Oh yeah, I've got that Boggit, have played it a bit, somehow I always end up as Space Marines, I can't help it.. but I did get the latest DLC for the (a)Eldar(i) and started exploring their nuances. It's from the devs of Pandora: First Contact I think and they've really polished Gladius up.

I thought Shadow Empire would take the niche slot where Armageddon Empires left (and Last Days of Old Earth failed to fill), but it seems so much more "Grand Strategy" mixed with 4X. That may not be the case later on, once you've grok'd all the systems at play, I haven't been able to get enough time or brainpower onto it yet. :)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on December 04, 2020, 06:32:45 AM
Today I learned two valuable lessons. 1: Do NOT overbuild the city closest to your front line or your army will be paralyzed by supply shortages.
2: When your army is paralyzed by supply shortages, Nukes are your FRIEND. You nuke the nearest big enemy troop concentrations and a couple of his cities and voila! He has the same problem you do AND if you are clever you can walk into his nearest city ( well, its glowing ruins) and start prepping a new supply point!

Haha!  Nukes are always your friend...as long as you're the one using them.   ;D
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Gusington on December 04, 2020, 07:27:33 AM
Holy crap - welcome back spelk!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 04, 2020, 07:59:43 AM
I've got the added trauma of trying to get this to work under Linux, it does not. Nor does any of Vic's games sadly, I thought perhaps Steam and the Proton thing may do it, but alas no. So I have a crappy old laptop stuggling with Win10 just to play this game.
actually grok the scope of this game.

I came upon this:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1154840/discussions/0/2293968408149035586/

Quote
It ruuuuuns !

Thanks to https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4831720

- install the game via wine
- don’t install the redist at the end
- winetricks gdiplus
- winetricks dotnet472
- go to the game folder ( something like ~/.wine/drive_c/ShadowEmpire/)
- graphics/shadowmodgraphics/defaultcounterbig.png has to be converted to workaround a setpixel error. In gimp menu's: Image -> Mode -> RGB. export as png and overwrite

- Play !
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Boggit on December 04, 2020, 08:18:51 AM
Good find! O0

Wine and Cider seems a good way to get games working on OS;s not designed for them. I have a PC, but my wife and son often use a Mac and have got plenty of Windows games to run using that.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on December 04, 2020, 11:59:11 AM
Welcome back, Spelk!  I'm 408Lurker on /r/computerwargames
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: spelk on December 05, 2020, 08:34:22 AM
Holy crap - welcome back spelk!

Thanks Gus! Good to see so many of the old guard still on parade! :)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: spelk on December 05, 2020, 08:39:02 AM
I came upon this:
Thanks to https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4831720

- install the game via wine
- don’t install the redist at the end
- winetricks gdiplus
- winetricks dotnet472
- go to the game folder ( something like ~/.wine/drive_c/ShadowEmpire/)
- graphics/shadowmodgraphics/defaultcounterbig.png has to be converted to workaround a setpixel error. In gimp menu's: Image -> Mode -> RGB. export as png and overwrite

- Play !


Thanks for this Lotti, been trying this method and the one that uses Protontricks. The winetricks one stumbled at a point that looks to be tied to issues with something missing from my distribution (MXLinux). The Protontricks one sent a script into an infinite loop of some sort. So I've resigned myself to playing the game on my old laptop because thats the only one that has Win10 on it. It works. It's just a bit slow and the odd screen resolution supported by that laptop means theres not much map estate to ponder over, unless you remove all the info panels.. still, I can play it, once I get my head around it.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: spelk on December 05, 2020, 08:41:38 AM
Welcome back, Spelk!  I'm 408Lurker on /r/computerwargames

Ah cool, I've noticed you over on the sub-reddit, helping out and participating in the discussions there. Keep it up soldier. The place has really taken off in terms of the readers now post the majority of the content, so I eased off a bit in terms of posting news from my RSS feeds.

Good to see you signed up to the Grogs, they'll look after you here!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on December 05, 2020, 08:59:48 AM
Yeah...really good to see you spelk. I hope all is well and I hope you stick around!

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on December 05, 2020, 11:39:51 PM
Spelk, it's good to see you again.  I've been wondering what your user name means for all these years, and I'd hate to think of a chance of never getting to ask you.  Is it a rural Danish breakfast cereal?  A shortened version of your last name?  A byproduct in the wheat-threshing process? 

I'm loving the game as well, even if I struggle with how generic a lot of the names are.  I really wish Vic would put tooltips in for each Council, because I'll be danged if I can remember what more than half of them do without looking it up in a bookmarked thread on the Matrix forums.   :D
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 06, 2020, 06:42:08 AM
I just watched a couple of DasTactic's tutorial videos on supply and the road network.  It really looked like a mess, and micromanagement hell.  Can anyone comment on whether the system has been significantly improved over the last few months?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: fabius on December 06, 2020, 07:43:35 AM
I just watched a couple of DasTactic's tutorial videos on supply and the road network.  It really looked like a mess, and micromanagement hell.  Can anyone comment on whether the system has been significantly improved over the last few months?  Thanks.
I read that it has improved.
I'm still playing deep into a game on first version.
The logistics looks micro mess, but when you get the hang of it it's ok. There's some threads on basics, like nationalise truckstop asap. Improve levels.
I'm well advanced into a game, and just most turns at the end I click preview logistics points and skim round quick to change a few traffic lights if needed.
The game isn't perfect but very rewarding in immersion. Just wish the AI was a little better
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 06, 2020, 09:07:44 AM
OK, thanks.  I have a pdf of the latest version of the manual so reading the logistics section would probably help me see the changes.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on December 06, 2020, 07:58:52 PM
Everything was going great.  Expanding.  Clobbered three minors.  Then for some (unknown to me) reason my logistics system collapsed.  I was close to 100% on my furthest units - then 0%.  I did not run out of oil for the trucks. 

Back to watching videos to try to understand what happened.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 07, 2020, 08:54:16 AM
Everything was going great.  Expanding.  Clobbered three minors.  Then for some (unknown to me) reason my logistics system collapsed.  I was close to 100% on my furthest units - then 0%.  I did not run out of oil for the trucks. 

Back to watching videos to try to understand what happened.

Yup. Happened to me. Very frustrating. the game is deficient in summaries that give you a heads up. It requires some micro-management to stay ahead of the disaster. You have to watch the Bottleneck map overlay periodically AND combine that with observing the supply status of individual unit (click on the supply barrel at the bottom of the screen when a unit is selected). Together, with the other supply overlays, they will allow you to keep a half-assed idea of how close to disaster you are. I have found that maxing out too many industries and city sizes will collapse the supply net even if you have NO armies to speak of as the industrial complex competes with the military for the same logistics points. i had a thread at Matrix about this some time ago. I was not happy with the answers I got.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 07, 2020, 09:00:54 AM
I have also found that building rail bypasses around cities sometimes helps. From the thread comments I have seen, including Das Tactic's, I doubt in anyone can answer all of the question I can some up with about the subject except Vic. What happens to rail points from city A when they enter city B, where goods stop and on and on and on, going from SHQ1 to SHQ3 through SHQ 2, stuff like that. There are some answers, but they lead to more questions. I keep making assumptions based on common sense and real world things and they are correct only some of the time. Vic should visit here occasionally, I think.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 07, 2020, 09:10:41 AM
The previous three posts have me hitting the pause button on my decision to buy.  I get very frustrated when things go south in a game and there is no way of understanding why.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on December 07, 2020, 09:27:13 AM
I've watched the first Das Tactic logistics video.  I was not looking at transport bottlenecks and was instead only looking at top line production.

I think I did what Solops was discussing - I expanded my cities and industries to build more stuff - and my logistics network collapsed.  It tanked right after I had several mine and factory upgrades come on line.

Ah well - amateurs study tactics and professionals study logistics. 

My tactics were great.  My research put armies into the field that my opponents could not stop.  And my logistics system broke and my army is starving although there is food in the warehouses.

Live and learn.

Hopefully yet another restart will allow me to catch and fix this problem before it kills me.  From what I was watching at Das Tactic - there are all sorts of indicators of warning signs.  From what Solops said, you hit certain growth points and you need to make sure your logistics net can handle it.  Solops - you might want to view Das Tactics logistics videos to see if they explain what the indicators are to your satisfaction.

I had a basic functional logistics system that worked great - but then I never upgraded it.  Then it broke.

Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on December 07, 2020, 09:35:09 AM
OK, thanks.  I have a pdf of the latest version of the manual so reading the logistics section would probably help me see the changes.

Geezer - I read the manual but did not understand several systems after reading it.  Reading the manual, watching some of Das Tactics videos, trying it out has worked for me.  I think I understand what I did wrong.

This is a very playable game - but is deceptively complex.  Logistics is largely ignored in most games, especially 4x and empire building games.  In Shadow Empire merely producing enough stuff and having a clear supply line is not enough.  You MUST have the logistics system to move your materials around your empire to the production facilities and then back to the units in the field.  If you don't, the entire system which was working great can get overloaded with very bad consequences.

But this is a playable game.  Complex, but playable.  If you are unwilling to be concerned with raw materials, manufacturing, logistics, and command & control (and you cannot automate much of this), then this game is probably not for you.  If you are willing to take a crack at it and study it - then it is a ton of fun.

Best comparison I can make is the Dominions games.  You have to understand the battle system and especially the hyper complex and interactive magic system to make the game work.  Once you figure those out - amazingly entertaining.  Before you figure them out - frustrating.  Being unwilling to figure them out = you cannot successfully play the game.

There are layers of reports.  Problems show up in the top layers.  The more detailed layers of reports can be ignored - until you start to hit problems.  Then you can dig into those layers as needed to identify and hopefully start to correct your issues.

I think I'm going to do a review of this now that the Steam version is out and I can do screenshots.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 07, 2020, 10:05:20 AM
@airboy - Thanks for the reply.  I'm fine with managing logistics, C&C, etc in my games.  In fact I prefer it in my games as opposed to just being able to move units anywhere and attack without regard to supply or C&C.  My concern is that if things go wrong and there is no way to figure out why then it becomes an exercise in frustration.

What I saw in the DasTactic videos from June was that logistics was like pouring water through a pipeline where the water just flowed everywhere and you had to shut off "valves" (with stop signs) to redirect it.  That struck me as unrealistic because trucks would not just load up at a depot and head out in all directions without regard to where the supplies were actually needed.  Someone posted at the Qt3 forums that Vic subsequently changed the logistics system from the original push design to more of a pull design which makes more sense to me.  I don't know if that is reflected in the latest manual but I'll take a look.

I'll have my Matrix coupon in two days which should give me 50% off on top of the 20% sale so the game should cost me about $12.  Even though I posted above about not getting it I'll probably just end up buying the game and if I don't care for it then it's no big deal at that price.  I've had a lot of fun with Vic's previous designs and will be happy to support him.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on December 07, 2020, 10:10:08 AM
Yeah.  I liken it to Distant Worlds: Universe in terms of the complexity.

My sense is that the AI (aka "the Private Market") does an okay job of solving (or at least mitigating) production problems.  But the logistical network responsibility seems to lie solely with the user.  That's not a bad thing, but it is another layer to the onion.

At least, that's my early impression.  I'm still growing and starting to run into logistical problems in  my first game, but I'm sure I'll need to build another truck depot sometime soon.  Once I understand what they actually do!   :D
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: bobarossa on December 07, 2020, 11:23:23 AM

What I saw in the DasTactic videos from June was that logistics was like pouring water through a pipeline where the water just flowed everywhere and you had to shut off "valves" (with stop signs) to redirect it.  That struck me as unrealistic because trucks would not just load up at a depot and head out in all directions without regard to where the supplies were actually needed.  Someone posted at the Qt3 forums that Vic subsequently changed the logistics system from the original push design to more of a pull design which makes more sense to me.  I don't know if that is reflected in the latest manual but I'll take a look.
I last played with 1.04 (last save June 23) and logistics changed greatly with 1.05 and later.  The June videos may be on any early version of the new logistics system.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on December 07, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
I really liked the original logistics system or push system as it has been called.  I know it's not realistic from a common sense point of view but if we liken the flow of supply to the flow of water in a plumbing system it makes sense.  I think the reason why Vic went this route was to have another aspect of the game where the player needed to solve a puzzle.  I didn't mind it and actually liked trying to figure out why my supplies were not reaching everyone even though I had turned off a boat load of 'valves'. 

I have not played the game since the switch to the pull system of logistics.  Is the game still fun to play under the pull system?  If I patch to the latest revision to get airplanes am I forced to play with the logistics pull system?  Is there an option to retain the old push system?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: al_infierno on December 07, 2020, 03:19:13 PM
This is a total noob question, but what exactly do "push logistics system" and "pull logistics system" mean?   ???
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Boggit on December 07, 2020, 04:24:25 PM
This is a total noob question, but what exactly do "push logistics system" and "pull logistics system" mean?   ???
Seems quite reasonable to me. I haven't a clue either.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 07, 2020, 04:52:30 PM
My take on it is that a push system takes supplies from a source and sends them out in all directions.  In the case of SE that would be out every road/railroad without regard to who really needs the supply.  A pull system would be where the units/facilities call for the supply and they pull the supply to them from a source as needed.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 07, 2020, 05:27:49 PM
The push system is the basis, and the one originally implemented.

The pull system adds so called pull points, which are all known demands for logistics. This creates a subsystem of the logistic flow that is reserved. You can manually remove any or all of the pull-destinations: assets, units or zones.

You can also manually add pull points, or block part of the stream with traffic lights.

The result is a system that can work without micromanagement in many cases, but when it distributes shortages not to your liking, you have several tools to steer it. I am quite far into a game with these new rules and I didn't need any fine-tuning, but I started to manipulate to be able to do more strategic transfers.

The game has an incredible detailed reporting system. It takes many game-sessions going through all of them, and together they offer a rich view of the internal workings of the game. You get reports on all the skills used by your leaders, where you can be amazed that your top scientist is practising survival training in his spare time. You can also read that the commander of your strategic headquarter sold some of your stocks on his own accord to pay for the salaries, so maybe next time the market is bad and your people don't get paid. Etc.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 07, 2020, 09:01:01 PM
I am on turn 410 right now. Things change a bit when everything is built up as much as you dare. I am still figuring out how the developed world works.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: spelk on December 08, 2020, 01:13:13 AM
Spelk, it's good to see you again.  I've been wondering what your user name means for all these years, and I'd hate to think of a chance of never getting to ask you.  Is it a rural Danish breakfast cereal?  A shortened version of your last name?  A byproduct in the wheat-threshing process?

It's kind of an in-joke based on a (North Eastern - geordie/mackem) British slang word for a splinter.
https://wikidiff.com/spelk/splinter

If someone was very thin, you'd say "theres not a pickin' on them, they're like a bloody spelk". A spelk being a thin sliver of debris (usually wood) under the skin.

I embraced the name, when playing the original EverQuest game for my Ogre Shaman (who was very fat). The thinly veiled "joke" being that the Ogre was VERY fat, yet he was called "Spelk".  In order to think of it as being amusing, I guess you had to be from a region of Britain who uses that slang anyway. At the time I thought it was a rather poor "joke", but quite a catchy moniker. So it sort of stuck with me. I am however, not thin at all. Nor am I a shaman.  ::)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 08, 2020, 06:56:13 AM
Thanks for that writeup Lotti.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on December 08, 2020, 08:08:20 AM

The game has an incredible detailed reporting system. It takes many game-sessions going through all of them, and together they offer a rich view of the internal workings of the game. You get reports on all the skills used by your leaders, where you can be amazed that your top scientist is practising survival training in his spare time. You can also read that the commander of your strategic headquarter sold some of your stocks on his own accord to pay for the salaries, so maybe next time the market is bad and your people don't get paid. Etc.

Amen to this.  The private sector economy also operates without your control to do all sorts of things from building factories, schools and police stations - to brothels and museums.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on December 08, 2020, 08:47:59 AM
The push system is the basis, and the one originally implemented.

The pull system adds so called pull points, which are all known demands for logistics. This creates a subsystem of the logistic flow that is reserved. You can manually remove any or all of the pull-destinations: assets, units or zones.

You can also manually add pull points, or block part of the stream with traffic lights.

The result is a system that can work without micromanagement in many cases, but when it distributes shortages not to your liking, you have several tools to steer it. I am quite far into a game with these new rules and I didn't need any fine-tuning, but I started to manipulate to be able to do more strategic transfers.

The game has an incredible detailed reporting system. It takes many game-sessions going through all of them, and together they offer a rich view of the internal workings of the game. You get reports on all the skills used by your leaders, where you can be amazed that your top scientist is practising survival training in his spare time. You can also read that the commander of your strategic headquarter sold some of your stocks on his own accord to pay for the salaries, so maybe next time the market is bad and your people don't get paid. Etc.

So it sounds like the base push system is still there but now there are options to include control over who can pull supply and get priority?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 08, 2020, 04:31:17 PM
The push system is the basis, and the one originally implemented.

The pull system adds so called pull points, which are all known demands for logistics. This creates a subsystem of the logistic flow that is reserved. You can manually remove any or all of the pull-destinations: assets, units or zones.

You can also manually add pull points, or block part of the stream with traffic lights.

The result is a system that can work without micromanagement in many cases, but when it distributes shortages not to your liking, you have several tools to steer it. I am quite far into a game with these new rules and I didn't need any fine-tuning, but I started to manipulate to be able to do more strategic transfers.

The game has an incredible detailed reporting system. It takes many game-sessions going through all of them, and together they offer a rich view of the internal workings of the game. You get reports on all the skills used by your leaders, where you can be amazed that your top scientist is practising survival training in his spare time. You can also read that the commander of your strategic headquarter sold some of your stocks on his own accord to pay for the salaries, so maybe next time the market is bad and your people don't get paid. Etc.

So it sounds like the base push system is still there but now there are options to include control over who can pull supply and get priority?

In the old system you had to actively steer your logistics towards the places it was needed. In the new system this is automated for the basic needs, and you only have to fine-tune for your dynamic use, like sending reinforcements, increasing front sizes, strategic moves etc. Of course you still have to build the infrastructure.

After you conquer a city, there can be temporary strain on your network, if you need to support the population after the devastation. Or all the people start running away run away :-) But Vic nerved this effect by making food transports very light on your network. Initially it needed your transport capacity.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: W8taminute on December 09, 2020, 07:44:54 AM
^Thanks for the explanation.  Sounds interesting and I will definitely have to revisit this game and try out the new system. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 09, 2020, 09:40:26 AM
Speaking of logistics, I found this helpful tutorial:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gDXsQsmkLg
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on December 11, 2020, 10:15:39 AM
Spelk, you've now added to my knowledge of obscure slang in one tiny region where my native language is spoken.  I learn something on these forums every day!   ;D

OK, I'm now a few more turns into the "pushing my offensive to the end of my logistics chain" phenomenon, and I realize, I have no idea what I'm doing.  Even after reading the manual sections a bunch of times, playing around with the interface, and watching Das' video on the topic. 

I feel like I need to go back, take notes, and then maybe pass a Quiz on the topic at  the end.  You know, sort of like the quizzes at the end of all those HR videos we get to watch at work every year?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 11, 2020, 11:14:04 AM

OK, I'm now a few more turns into the "pushing my offensive to the end of my logistics chain" phenomenon, and I realize, I have no idea what I'm doing.  Even after reading the manual sections a bunch of times, playing around with the interface, and watching Das' video on the topic. 

I feel like I need to go back, take notes, and then maybe pass a Quiz on the topic at  the end.  You know, sort of like the quizzes at the end of all those HR videos we get to watch at work every year?

I think you just need to play. I have read, watched and asked questions until I am exhausted and I still have no clue how some of this works. The best bet for me has been to play and suffer and then figure your way out in hopes that someday someone will answer some of your questions coherently. You will learn a lot. The game is very forgiving on the Normal setting, so mistakes are not fatal. You can learn how to make things work, but not necessarily why.

One thing that really begs explanation is how truck and train transport points from one city are handled as they carry things into a city and through to another or to the front. I found that bypasses DO seem to make a difference, which raises some questions. And if you have storage facilities built in a city other than the SHQ city how do they travel ( or DO they travel to) the SHQ or directly to the front or factory that needs them.Tthe routing is important in planning the net. The whole supply/resource transportation system needs some clarification.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 11, 2020, 12:42:18 PM
I'm about 10 turns into my first game.  Can't figure out Industry Points.  All the numbers are 0 when I mouse over the icon in the tab on the left side of the screen, yet I am still getting some points each turn.  Fun so far in spite of not really understanding much of the details.  And as we know, the devil is in the details.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 11, 2020, 01:00:05 PM
Production of everything is done within a zone. Each zone has its own buffer stocks, and and first tries to handle everything with the resources within the zone. The zone requests resources that it doesn't have but needs from the SHQ, and it sends it surplus to the SHQ (Strategic Headquarter).

You can see a detailed balance and update sheet per zone in the Management -> Assets screen when you activate the extension button. Look for red and yellow numbers to see what is not functioning optimal. If you click such a number, it filters the assets that are affected.

The side panel in the Map view with resources are the stocks of the SHQ. The SHQ sends these to units, to zones and it uses them in international trade.

With all those panels you can trace exactly where what is being produced, what are the penalties, etc. The Manage Assets screen is one of my goto places each turn to spot possible new crises before they really hit you.

When you do have bottlenecks, you can mothball, or run an non-vital asset at 25%, 50% or 75% of capacity, to free up some workers or energy and have your critical assets work at full capacity despite global shortages. That way you can repair your bottlenecks more quickly. But when everything runs smooth, you don't have to micromanage anything here.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on December 11, 2020, 01:35:11 PM
Yeah.  The "0" number you see is not your current turn's industry production for that zone, but your current balance after you've used all the points available this turn.  You burn industry points doing things like trying to create new buildings, raise new units, build roads, etc.  If you mouse over the 0, it'll give you a high level breakdown.  Like Lotti says, you can get a lot more info from the Management->Assets screen.

When it comes to production, there seems to be a basic hierarchy of things:  Survival needs come first (food and water), then metal, then industry, then fuel.  Certain planetary settings change the way you move up those curves (e.g., water is a BIG deal if you're on a desert planet), but that's the basic scheme.

SE has a much more robust "civil administration" function than most 4x games (the original Civilization game just contented itself with "keep your citizens happy").  It includes things like research and development, policy initiatives, training your troops, supplying your troops logistically, etc.  All that stuff comes later (although the basic research & discovery piece gets relevant pretty early on too).
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 11, 2020, 02:52:56 PM
Attached is a screenshot of my Assets screen extended.  I still can't figure out where the 66 Industrial Points are being created as none of my buildings show that symbol on them.  Not too worried about all of it at this point as I do need to RTFM and just play more turns to get a feel for the game.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 11, 2020, 03:30:57 PM
Attached is a screenshot of my Assets screen extended.  I still can't figure out where the 66 Industrial Points are being created as none of my buildings show that symbol on them.  Not too worried about all of it at this point as I do need to RTFM and just play more turns to get a feel for the game.

I looked at that screen in my game for a little outback zone without industry. When I mouse over the prod number, which is 56 in my case, the tooltip tells me that this comes from the Service Tax. That is, it is produced by the private sector.

It is the production that can bootstrap your single zone start city.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on December 11, 2020, 03:44:54 PM
OK, just checked and mine also says the Service Tax is generating the points.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 13, 2020, 09:52:43 AM
Production of everything is done within a zone. Each zone has its own buffer stocks, and and first tries to handle everything with the resources within the zone. The zone requests resources that it doesn't have but needs from the SHQ, and it sends it surplus to the SHQ (Strategic Headquarter).

You can see a detailed balance and update sheet per zone in the Management -> Assets screen when you activate the extension button. Look for red and yellow numbers to see what is not functioning optimal. If you click such a number, it filters the assets that are affected.

The side panel in the Map view with resources are the stocks of the SHQ. The SHQ sends these to units, to zones and it uses them in international trade.

With all those panels you can trace exactly where what is being produced, what are the penalties, etc. The Manage Assets screen is one of my goto places each turn to spot possible new crises before they really hit you.

When you do have bottlenecks, you can mothball, or run an non-vital asset at 25%, 50% or 75% of capacity, to free up some workers or energy and have your critical assets work at full capacity despite global shortages. That way you can repair your bottlenecks more quickly. But when everything runs smooth, you don't have to micromanage anything here.
\\Thanks. But I know all of this. It does not come close to answering my questions about rail point allocation, stopping points, etc.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 13, 2020, 09:58:50 AM
Production ...

\\Thanks. But I know all of this. It does not come close to answering my questions about rail point allocation, stopping points, etc.


I was answering a question from Geezer about production, not lecturing on Logistics.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 13, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
Production ...

\\Thanks. But I know all of this. It does not come close to answering my questions about rail point allocation, stopping points, etc.


I was answering a question from Geezer about production, not lecturing on Logistics.

Oh.....
Right. I knew that.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on December 14, 2020, 09:01:41 PM
On turn 59.  I screwed up one thing - but it is not fatal (I think).

Got my victory up to 33% and control 42% of the world's population.

I (hopefully) can win before my administration problem in the bloated area I allowed to grow too big bites me fatally.

I keep learning new ways to screw up my empire - which means I'm "learning."
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 17, 2020, 12:54:24 PM
(moved from 'I finished it')

I finally won a game of Shadow Empire.

My "win" is embarrassingly meagre.  I played on Beginner level with no other major powers (only minors and unorganized).  This was a small planet.
My tech level and military are supreme.  I've conquered 48% of the world population and about 30% of the planet's surface.  This gave me a victory score of 39% (with 50% needed for an "official win.")

But this one is over after 16 hours of play.

Victory for Czar Panzer!  Miniature Schnauzers Rule!  [At least on the absolute easiest level possible].

My second game, started when the game came out on Steam, is on turn 132. I gathered a large empire, absorbing all minor cities in reach. Now there are three more Majors, which I probably dominate militarily, but my approach to the neighbour runs through a long narrow valley. I am afraid that they will be able to open up flank attacks by building roads through the mountains, which is (still?) free for AI empires. It will be a big, big, operation, and my empire begins to age: all freemen in my developed zones have become citizens, so no growth there. I have still a few small hunter cities that are unlocking new Freemen settlements in the vast unaligned wilderness to my East.

So I started a new game yesterday, trying to apply the numerous lessons I have learned in the meantime. Yhis run I am going to run my policies around the preferences of my best leaders, instead of trying to impose my own ideology. Every policy gives some positive perks, and an harmonious government appears very attractive now.

Also, I stop fiddling with detailed budget sliders, because the hurt from lowering a budget is much larger than the gain when you up it again.
Also, most sliders give profits that go with the square root of the investment, so in the long run an even distribution gives you more.

There are so many interesting choices in this game!

Two weeks ago I started a multiplayer game with three other players. We are still friendly to each other, while fighting the horrors of the planet itself. We are now on turn 32, so we do about 2 rounds per day now. As I was locked in by Nomads, where there is nothing to gain, to the West, the South pole to the South, a human Major to the North, and an AI major to the East, I am now in a serious regular war with an AI major. A whole different experience from fighting Minors. They actually slightly out-tech me, but I am catching up and a little bit smarter. I am in a hurry though, because my only metals mine already ran dry, and the closest replacement is 5 hexes behind the war front, so I must capture that one fast.

(http://springelkamp.nl/usr/img/Games/ShadowEmpire/ZiemerholtFront.png)

I am coming from the West, the metal mine is in Sossen. I just opened a breach with my new blitzers.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 17, 2020, 01:13:44 PM
Yesterday I made a major error, showing how unforgiving this game can be.

I had just unlocked combat armour on my infantry, so I made that the new regular infantry outfit, putting padded armour on low quality. And I had just enough resources to equip my Northern 1st Inf brigade with the new goodies; they were on the most heavily threatened part of the front.

I just forgot that I had told my brigades that low quality was unacceptable, instead of tolerated, so when the turn came back, all my infanterists in the 2nd and 3rd brigade had been sent on leave to the capital, because they were considered below par with just their padded armour. So there was just a tiny line of lone machinegunners and artillerists on the Central and Southern front.

Fortunately the AI wasn't aware of of this, and they still went ahead with their assault on my good Northern guys, and they got a bloody nose. Next turn all the partying troopers returned to their units.

The stories the game creates for you :-)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on December 17, 2020, 01:27:39 PM
Lotti - I'm sure I would get my head handed to me on multiplayer. 

On the scale of this game, I would put myself at "barely mastered the basics on the easiest setting."
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 19, 2020, 03:59:58 AM
Turn 34 and 35 of the offensive: this plays like a regular wargame now

(http://springelkamp.nl/usr/img/Games/ShadowEmpire/ZiemerholtFront34.png)

Now the enemy Ziemerholt has a rebellion going on that has taken his second metal mine in Oube near the Mono desert, while my freshly recruited Blitzer brigade takes his other mine: it is undamaged, and ready to produce.

(http://springelkamp.nl/usr/img/Games/ShadowEmpire/ZiemerholtFront35.png)

Next few turns I must crank out artillery, for when he retreats on his capital and we enter a siege phase. Disadvantage is that bombardment will destroy a lot of infrastructure that will need repairing when I conquer it.

Of course when a player now attacks me in the back, I am dead, and I see a human major creeping towards my Western border. So we must hurry on this front.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Sparhawk on December 21, 2020, 06:11:11 PM
I'm obsessed with this game. I recently conquered a minor regime and am unable to adjust the zone size. I'm currently trying to get a road connected to the zone capital but am bogged down crossing a mountain range and forest. I was wondering if I'm overlooking something concerning zone hex adjustment or is this not normal?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 21, 2020, 06:18:32 PM
I'm obsessed with this game. I recently conquered a minor regime and am unable to adjust the zone size. I'm currently trying to get a road connected to the zone capital but am bogged down crossing a mountain range and forest. I was wondering if I'm overlooking something concerning zone hex adjustment or is this not normal?

Select a hex in the zone you want to enlarge. If you are in Zone Paint mode, leave and start Zone Paint mode again. Then click on a hex outside the zone, bordering at at least two hexes from your selected zone. The hex will go to the zone. Continue with neighbouring hexes. If you want to remove a hex, leave Zone Paint again, go to a hex in the other zone, and then click on the hex you want to change.

I captured the enemy capital without bombardment, just drove a tank brigade into the defenders.

(http://springelkamp.nl/usr/img/Games/ShadowEmpire/ZiemerholtFront37.png)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 21, 2020, 06:20:49 PM
I'm obsessed with this game. I recently conquered a minor regime and am unable to adjust the zone size. I'm currently trying to get a road connected to the zone capital but am bogged down crossing a mountain range and forest. I was wondering if I'm overlooking something concerning zone hex adjustment or is this not normal?
You are using the manual hex transfer utility in the same menu as road building?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Sparhawk on December 21, 2020, 06:46:36 PM
Using "Z" shortcut or selecting "zone borders" I always adjust my zones. This particular zone ended up with 2 hexes on a peninsula after being conquered and nothing I try will get the bordering hexes to switch to the selected zone.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 21, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
Using "Z" shortcut or selecting "zone borders" I always adjust my zones. This particular zone ended up with 2 hexes on a peninsula after being conquered and nothing I try will get the bordering hexes to switch to the selected zone.

Might be because you can't get two hexes from the zone bordering a new hex, if you are on a long thin peninsula.

I would make a bug report.

I assume Vic wanted to prevent you creating a snaking zone, but you can do that anyway by starting wide and then cutting away from the sides. However, in your case, it is unreasonable.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 25, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Beginner mode, farmer planet, open water. Nice.

I conquer 1 farmer neighbour immediately, make peace with three other farmer neighbours, push back the 2 nomad neighbours, and conquer another farmer town up in the steppes. Fire up my economy.

Then everything comes to a screeching halt: I have no scientific knowledge to produce Power. So I go into hibernation, put most of my budget in economic discovery, but the lady in charge has limited talents. She keeps on discovering the wrong techs.

Until I start scientific cooperation with the two Majors: bang, first turn they give me Solar Power.

Then my Diplomatic council come online. I make the three farmer neighbours protectorates, then client states, then we all unite into an Empire.

I am now bigger than the two other majors together, and have a huge swarm of militia from all those clients. Privately funded. And only one brigade of professional infantry.

The Commander of that brigade is a V grade genius, yet he caused a serious accident with casualties and I had to reprimand him. But to get on his good side again I gave him a medal of merit and a bonus. That is how we roll here in Markt.



The game makes automatically screenshots at the beginning and end of every turn.

I put them into a video with http://makeavi.sourceforge.net/ (http://makeavi.sourceforge.net/), a free open source product.

For the best results you will have to end each turn in the same display mode: units on, no unit selected in move mode, same logistics mode, same colouration, because the screenshot is taken in the mode you hit end turn.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Rayfer on December 26, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Well done LF.  I enjoyed the video.  I didn't realize the map wraps around because I never got far enough into a campaign to notice it.  Is it an option you can turn on and off?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: MOS:96B2P on December 26, 2020, 08:05:07 AM



The game makes automatically screenshots at the beginning and end of every turn.


Interesting game and video. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Lotti Fuehrscheim on December 26, 2020, 08:44:30 AM
Well done LF.  I enjoyed the video.  I didn't realize the map wraps around because I never got far enough into a campaign to notice it.  Is it an option you can turn on and off?

No, you always play on a whole planet, and whatever the flat-earthers are saying, planets are round.

(but considering the situation at the poles, I wonder if Vic is a bit of a flat-earther himself  :idiot2:
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on December 26, 2020, 08:50:40 AM
I still wish there was some space or interstellar component to this game. With this added, I feel like it would be truly epic.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 26, 2020, 08:58:06 AM
I still wish there was some space or interstellar component to this game. With this added, I feel like it would be truly epic.
Can you say "DLC"? Actually, the game is such that I cannot imagine ever being to play a that kind of campaign, time-wise, even if the space portion was severely abbreviated like in Rising Sun's. An accompanying space campaign of similar depth would be impossible to play.....the space portion AND multiple planetary wars!!??

Edit - "Fading Suns"
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: airboy on December 26, 2020, 10:59:42 AM
I still wish there was some space or interstellar component to this game. With this added, I feel like it would be truly epic.

I don't think that is feasible.  The current game is very, very long.  Even on a small planet on the easiest settings, it takes an extremely long time to achieve victory.  Adding a space aspect to the game would make it even longer.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 26, 2020, 11:48:54 AM
I still wish there was some space or interstellar component to this game. With this added, I feel like it would be truly epic.

I don't think that is feasible.  The current game is very, very long.  Even on a small planet on the easiest settings, it takes an extremely long time to achieve victory.  Adding a space aspect to the game would make it even longer.
+1
That said, I AM Retired and I WOULD attempt to play such an epic beast :)
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on December 26, 2020, 12:57:28 PM
I still wish there was some space or interstellar component to this game. With this added, I feel like it would be truly epic.

I don't think that is feasible.  The current game is very, very long.  Even on a small planet on the easiest settings, it takes an extremely long time to achieve victory.  Adding a space aspect to the game would make it even longer.
+1
That said, I AM Retired and I WOULD attempt to play such an epic beast :)

If WWII can be played in one day turns, someone can come up with a balanced way to accomplish this. It wouldn't be that much different from EotFS, and Hollistic figured out that formula 25 years ago.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on December 26, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
I still wish there was some space or interstellar component to this game. With this added, I feel like it would be truly epic.

Are you talking about an "orbital" or "satellite" field of play to introduce an off-planet aspect to the game?  Or making it into a true interstellar 4x?

While I get the appeal of both pieces, the latter approach simply wouldn't work for this game system.  But, before I disagree further, I want to make sure I understand what the proposal is?
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on December 26, 2020, 03:10:54 PM
I'm talking about a game where the player can discover or research tech to get back into the stars and try to reforge the old empire that was destroyed in the war. I'm not saying it would be simple. I'm not saying it would be for everyone, but it is certainly possible. I don't see what is so verboten about being able to rediscover space faring technology that would allow the player to land troops on other worlds and conquer them.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 26, 2020, 08:47:51 PM
I'm talking about a game where the player can discover or research tech to get back into the stars and try to reforge the old empire that was destroyed in the war. I'm not saying it would be simple. I'm not saying it would be for everyone, but it is certainly possible. I don't see what is so verboten about being able to rediscover space faring technology that would allow the player to land troops on other worlds and conquer them.
Oh, I agree. It would be totally cool and epic. I just don't think I would live long enough to get very far in a campaign at the current level of detail. But it would be awesome.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Fetrik on December 26, 2020, 11:12:39 PM
I think that once you controlled one planet your next conquest would likely be sent every possible reinforment available from off world. Which would in many cases make that a stomp once you had secured a foothold. On top of that you would already have done all the research for the best units.

The same issues that trouble a late game TW campaign would be an issue here. While such a campaign is certainly
feasible,  is it desireable by any but a logistics genius?

I'm only halfway through the manual right now and i haven't played the game yet. Dastactics current series on YouTube convinced me to buy the game.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 27, 2020, 06:47:19 AM
Large empire, multiple offensive and defensive planetary wars plus space naval ops... WOW!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on December 27, 2020, 08:29:30 AM
I think that once you controlled one planet your next conquest would likely be sent every possible reinforment available from off world. Which would in many cases make that a stomp once you had secured a foothold. On top of that you would already have done all the research for the best units.

The same issues that trouble a late game TW campaign would be an issue here. While such a campaign is certainly
feasible,  is it desireable by any but a logistics genius?

I'm only halfway through the manual right now and i haven't played the game yet. Dastactics current series on YouTube convinced me to buy the game.

But the AI opponents would be researching too, and some of them would be striving to get to the stars and reforge a new interstellar empire as well...so ideally, you'd have to worry about fortifying your own worlds.

Logistics would be tough, but no tougher than it is in a game like, say Aurora...
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Fetrik on December 27, 2020, 12:10:17 PM

But the AI opponents would be researching too, and some of them would be striving to get to the stars and reforge a new interstellar empire as well...so ideally, you'd have to worry about fortifying your own worlds.

Logistics would be tough, but no tougher than it is in a game like, say Aurora...

Exactly! Current endturn times multiplied by number of planets. I'm just imagining like having to take a turn on 12 different planets in a struggle to hold on or conquer every turn.  Progress would be sloooow.
But for the people who want that it must sound a dream come true. I'm do think the idea sound really cool, just not very enjoyable for most people.

*Crap* When editing to shorten Jarhead's quote i managed to make my reply seem like a quote too... *ops*
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Jarhead0331 on December 27, 2020, 12:32:24 PM
I guess it is all really irrelevant because I don’t see Vic taking the game in this direction anyway. When the project was first announced as a Vic style sci-fi 4x, I thought perhaps there would be a spacefaring or colony expansion style experience. I was a little disappointed when more info revealed no space element or expansion beyond a single planet.

It’s just my ultimate dream game. A fully featured ground combat wargame wrapped up with a strategic space travel, exploration and battle system. Aurora has what I’m looking for, but without the flare of graphics, sound and a nifty UI. I’m hoping a game like this will be developed at some point while I would still care to play.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: solops on December 27, 2020, 06:57:46 PM
Someone might be able to mod this game to elves, orcs, etc. With the weapons magicized. If the mod system is that flexible, Vic will sell a trillion copies.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: FarAway Sooner on December 28, 2020, 10:25:40 AM
I guess it is all really irrelevant because I don’t see Vic taking the game in this direction anyway. When the project was first announced as a Vic style sci-fi 4x, I thought perhaps there would be a spacefaring or colony expansion style experience. I was a little disappointed when more info revealed no space element or expansion beyond a single planet.

It’s just my ultimate dream game. A fully featured ground combat wargame wrapped up with a strategic space travel, exploration and battle system. Aurora has what I’m looking for, but without the flare of graphics, sound and a nifty UI. I’m hoping a game like this will be developed at some point while I would still care to play.

I agree.  That would be a fun game.  But each system would need to be much more streamlined, and they'd need to play together very nicely, to make it work.  I think we've seen similar challenges in coming up with good sims of the Pacific Theater in WW II, where game designers are asked to blend air, naval, and land elements.

I'm not saying it's impossible.  But it presents game-design challenges you won't see in games with a much more specific focus.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Sparhawk on December 31, 2020, 05:02:03 PM
The game I was playing with the peninsular city was game breaking for me so I moved on. I really do love the world creation this game offers. Mostly the option to add or remove layers of difficulty with so much customization. I got crosswise with power in this playthrough just as Lotti had because my researchers moved well past the basic tech without giving me options for producing power. I had left my settings at 50% discovery and 50% research which gives the discoverers to much opportunity to branch out to far without filling in the "gaps" of the tech tree. No point in having power banks with no power to put in them. I managed to get things turned around with a little effort. I must give high praises to the synergy of the different councils coming together to advance the theory and application of technology. It is a very fun part of the game. I incrementally improve with my handling of logistics but must say that it is the most challenging aspect of the game for me. I mostly struggle with understanding the causes of choke points between cities. I peel back one layer of this onion at a time and am thouroughly enjoying it. 
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on February 19, 2021, 07:59:01 AM
Open Beta 1.08 is out with two new planet types.  This is for the Matrix version, not Steam, as I understand it.

Changelist for v1.08
-Added Hydra Class Planets, humid with plenty of swamps, rivers and seas. Almost always home to alien lifeforms.
-Added Morgana Class Planets, arid and dry, but with plenty of oasis areas dotted all over these planets.
-Added Minor Alien Regimes functionality for more variety. Native Aliens can now evolve during the Planet Biosphere phase, they’ll impact colonization and the aftermath of the Dissolution war as well. 5 Different types are present (like Cephaloids, Reptiloids) and they can use local wildlife as ‘cavalry’ as well. They’ll form their own Minor Regimes and a special kind of diplomacy will be allowed with the Xeno Diplomat Stratagem. They’ll also can contact you themselves, like other Minors.
-Fixed a turn processing crash (related to AI aircraft movement).
-Fixed an issue with Private Economy (and maybe AI too) not seeing it was already producing enough Food. An optimization for speed didn’t work out. Removing it for v1.08, will try again with subsequent open beta’s.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Geezer on February 24, 2021, 10:39:07 AM
We have released a new major update for Shadow Empire.

- You can now craft Stratagems. You do this by expanding Scrap Points you can earn by scrapping Stratagems you do not need. The crafted Stratagems are random and procedurally generated and thus always a surprise.

- AI turn speed has been increased

- Two new Planet Classes have been added. The Morgana Class and the Hydra Class.

- Sentient Alien life can now evolve on Planets. If this happens on the Planet you are playing on you'll very probably face some Alien natives during your game.

Check out the full changelog below. Asterix (*) at end of item means it requires a new game start to go into effect.

v1.08.01
• Fixed glitch in Alien Minor Report
• Reduced number of Asset Types eligible for usage in procedural Scrap Stratagems.
• Finetuned downwards the Charismatic Union Chief demands *
• Fixed that Open Contact could be played on Alien natives Minors. *
• Increased difficulty for making Alien natives join you a bit.*
• Fixed some glitches in the Militia growth algorithm.
• Fixed a turn processing crash (related to AI aircraft movement).
• Fixed an issue with Private Economy not seeing it was already producing enough Food. An optimization for speed didn’t work out. Removing it for v1.08, will try again with subsequent open beta’s.
• Added Hydra Class Planets, humid with plenty of swamps, rivers and seas. Almost always home to alien lifeforms.
• Added Morgana Class Planets, arid and dry, but with plenty of oasis areas dotted all over these planets.
• Added Minor Alien Regimes functionality for more variety. Native Aliens can now evolve during the Planet Biosphere phase, they’ll impact colonization and the aftermath of the Dissolution war as well. 5 Different types are present (like Cephaloids, Reptiloids) and they can use local wildlife as ‘cavalry’ as well. They’ll form their own Minor Regimes and a special kind of diplomacy will be allowed with the Xeno Diplomat Stratagem. They’ll also can contact you themselves, like other Minors.
• Fixed new organisation PP cost glitch if continuing from loading a saved game.
• Fixed some glitches with the Corporate story module (fixed some crime impact on corporation as well as better corporate spreading to other zones)
• Fixed bug with credits disappearing due to having only one zone and it being a unincorporated one.
• University production now increases with education tech
• Barracks production now increases with security tech
• Fixed construction cost for High Speed Rail
• Fixed an issue with renamed Unit name not being properly displayed for the Commanders job.
• Went back to speeded-up build mode, .06 should be faster turn processing than .05/.04 and equal to .03.
• Fixed a small glitch in the QOL score calculations which could cause small temporary decreases in them.
• Fixed model issue with Techs Launcher Optimization and Payload for SAM Launcher
• Fixed model issue with Conventional Guns Optimization and Flak Gun
• Plugged an exploit with scroll bar movement not updating button
• AI should construct tanks with HV guns as well now
• AI now tries to keep movement of Reserve Fronts to their targets more on roads (in order to benefit from potential Strategic Transfer)
• AI now makes use of Strategic Transfers Mode (limited number of units allowed to do this)
• AI now actually plays any Artifact Stratagems it has obtained during game *
• AI now also more interested in constructing Recycling Assets on top of Archeological Finds *
• AI now creates new Zones when they reach a size where if it was subject to administrative strain it would suffer penalties. *
• AI now also re-arranges its Zones.
• AI now has more difficulties in general to build roads and especially difficulties to build roads over mountains.
• Cards 31,32,104 now use 31.png, 32.png, 104.png instead of 1.png *
• Cards 546,547,548,549 now use newly added 546.png, 547,png, 548.png, 549.png *
• Added 8 new portrait part graphics (named groupXextrahair) for modders to have no double use between portrait groups. *
• Shared some help documentation for make graphics mod over on: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oDruMJbB6JBPvYaYlxeyCQMj5MWN46tjh6P4WOkN-4s/edit?usp=sharing
• Fixed big crash bug caused with 1.07.04
• The glitch corrupted some data and could take a few turns to surface to turn into a bug. Corrupted savefiles due to 1.07.04 play are cleaned up as well.
• Added Very Slow AI speed and made regular Slow mode less slow. See Prefs Tab.
• Fixed bug with Zones losing their SHQs ! Apologies. It was caused in a previous open beta.
• Fixed the missing Stratagem generation info
• Scrap Strats no longer give “Market” Asset (which is an asset still in development and not meant to be given yet)
• Scrap Strats no also can give some Private Mining and Private Farming Assets
• Alien Fauna now makes sound in combat
• Switched back the compilation mode to the one used in 1.07.02 to see if it fixes some weird calculation errors or not.
• Double Artifact Stratagem fixed and also the amount of Artifacts you’ll find should be lower due to this fix.
• Several Private Assets including Private Hospital have had their way too high Population need reduced by factor of ten *
• Made some relatively good speed improvements to turn speed. However this also made me change some compilation settings and might give some unwanted bugs, didn’t find any, but lets see. Stay aware this is an open BETA. capitals for emphasis.
• Minors with whom you have “unclear” relation can no longer take your locations.
• Fixed a crash when player gets more than 300 stratagems in stock (caused with 1.07.02)
• Nomads when losing a conquered city now are NOT removed from game anymore
• Added possibility to scrap Stratagems and craft new Stratagems (spending Scrap Points) to the game. You can find all new functionality in the Stratagem Tab when you flag “Scrap Mode” in the top-right corner. *
• Fixed propper average of attack and hitbonus skill % in Leader blocks in combat results window
• When tolerated equipment is switched for better equipment during replacement troops phase it keeps the soldiers (the xp, rdn, mor) where they are and only switches the equipment.
• MissileLauncher and RocketLauncher and other mechanized Launchers now use the Gun Tactics Skill (instead of Tank Tactics)
• Rail Stations now also profit from LogBonus *
• No longer very occasional n/a skill learning with Leader XP where Leader did not use any skill that turn
• Made fixes to the max logistical % settings for SHQ which were being overly optimistic (euphemism for not sticking to the limits)
• Fixed issue with Deception Skill being wrongly used in the combat mechanics.
• Fixed crash with older version savefiles and trying Strategic Transfer
• Automatic scrapping of most doubled Stratagems after you have more than 300 of them. To prevent too huge piles of Stratagems. *
• Fixed a nasty loss of Credits due to a bug to structural damage caused during battle code.
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: Yskonyn on February 24, 2021, 10:40:11 AM
Wow thats pretty extensive!
Title: Re: Shadow Empire
Post by: fabius on March 03, 2021, 05:12:30 AM
Every time I boot up to play this I think to myself, why have I payed anything else instead of this.
Such a fantastic game.