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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: al_infierno on January 05, 2021, 03:03:20 PM

Title: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: al_infierno on January 05, 2021, 03:03:20 PM
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/war-in-the-east-2-jts-wds-game/

OK, sorry to start the thread by being a wet blanket but I have to say - the idea of a WitE-sized John Tiller game is actually feverdream inducing.  If they don't add some sort of post-turn report function and proper tools for managing your OOB I just don't see how a game of this magnitude on that engine would be enjoyable.  I really hope to be proved wrong.
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: ArizonaTank on January 05, 2021, 03:29:41 PM
+1 While it sounds interesting, without a major interface upgrade a combined JTS Eastern Front title would be unmanageable. GG got the interface just right for WiTE, making a giant Division level game actually playable in a person's lifetime. I fear that a JTS title, at the Battalion level would be just too much without some serious interface automation.
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: GibbyG on January 05, 2021, 10:10:53 PM
Reading that blog post it doesn't sound like a whole war game.  Saying it fills a hole in the timeline sounds like just a big Panzer Campaign game covering a certain time period.
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: Zulu1966 on January 06, 2021, 01:16:32 PM
Reading that blog post it doesn't sound like a whole war game.  Saying it fills a hole in the timeline sounds like just a big Panzer Campaign game covering a certain time period.

Yeah - from the map and what's said doesn't sound at all like a full east front game. so not a competitor at all to the other game.
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: smittyohio on January 06, 2021, 02:52:02 PM
If this is actually trying to simulate the entire war on the eastern front from start to finish, it'd require so many new features that have never been in any Tiller game that I'm aware of.   It's one thing to simulate a battle, even a large one, and an entire front for the duration of a war.
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: Strela on January 08, 2021, 12:00:42 AM
Well they say all PR is good PR....

As the guy who actually wrote the original WDS Post, I can say that that the intention was not to build a War in the East competitor.

The full post is here: https://www.wargamedesignstudio.com/2020/12/30/2020-end-of-year-update/ (https://www.wargamedesignstudio.com/2020/12/30/2020-end-of-year-update/)


Here is the applicable FULL paragraph, which was not fully quoted in the Wargamer post:

Panzer Campaigns has been a hive of activity and we are extremely fortunate to have three teams that are actively working on games. There are six (!) games currently in various stages of development. A new team member, Daniel Asensio is working in partnership with Cesar on a large Eastern Front title. Dani had done a huge amount of work before approaching the WDS team and is filling a nice gap in the Panzer Campaigns timeline. Mike Prucha and Dave Michas already had their next title mapped out before Scheldt ’44 was completed. Both are real dynamos, with Mike already having much of the order of battle done and David having completed the largest ever standalone Panzer Campaigns map. The map is over 851,000 hexes in size and for comparison, the previous biggest was Moscow ’42 at just under 244,000 hexes. To blow everyone’s mind on the scale, the following image covers 929,000 hexes, so the new map is equivalent to a big hunk of Russia!

Contiguous Eastern Front Maps:

(https://i1.wp.com/www.wargamedesignstudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Blog-84-25.jpg?ssl=1)


The statement in red was left out of report which makes it clear that the composite map shown was to show an equivalent sized map to the one being worked on. The bolded statement was the applicable one for the following image.

So in summary, we are working on a monster 851,000 hex map that is the biggest ever Panzer Campaigns map and comparable to all the previous Russia maps (excluding Stalingrad) combined. No where do we say this new map is even in Russia...

So I hope that clarifies. Panzer Campaigns is the wrong engine for a WITE equivalent game and if we go down that path we will use an engine that is appropriately featured.

Thanks,

David
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: al_infierno on January 08, 2021, 12:06:30 AM
^ Well I feel silly for not reading your original post before sharing this.  I place the blame squarely on Wargamer for my lack of fact checking before posting this thread.   :buck2:
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: The_Admiral on January 08, 2021, 12:48:22 AM
Well they say all PR is good PR....

As the guy who actually wrote the original WDS Post, I can say that this is being reported out of context. (Fake news anyone?  ;D)

Aye! The original achievement in itself is huge nonetheless, and could be the very basis for a great endeavour of another kind after all, but I agree that the way the post was twisted out of its original meaning was peculiar, to say the least. :o

But congratulations on your next game-not-to-be, perhaps it is some sort of not so subtle nudge in a direction we'd all love to see you go, with all that deep, useful knowledge of yours  :coolsmiley:
The work on the AARs & the maps itself is worth bars of gold and will be a great resource to anybody willing to try his luck at game designing a new Eastern front flick.
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: ExWargamerJoe on January 08, 2021, 02:53:48 AM
I can only apologise if I misinterpreted what I was reading - I did go over it a couple of times but Tiller is not one of my strong suits so I guess I got carried away with the comparison.

I did provide a direct quote of what I thought was the most important part, including the contiguous map sample, but I guess I didn't clock it wasn't mean't to be taken literally.

I will update my copy to reflect this.
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: Strela on January 08, 2021, 05:28:03 AM
I can only apologise if I misinterpreted what I was reading - I did go over it a couple of times but Tiller is not one of my strong suits so I guess I got carried away with the comparison.

I did provide a direct quote of what I thought was the most important part, including the contiguous map sample, but I guess I didn't clock it wasn't mean't to be taken literally.

I will update my copy to reflect this.

All,

Firstly, Joe and I have spoken directly. I was out of line posting here, rather than talking and correcting the Wargamer article proactively.

Joe and the Wargamer team have been fantastic supporters of WDS/JTS and in that spirit Joe has immediately reached out to ensure the Wargamer article is factually correct.

I want to publicly apologise to Joe and we are very thankful for the support he and the Wargamer team have given us.

David
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: The_Admiral on January 08, 2021, 07:25:07 AM
Supporters of the last true bastions of actual wargaming, that they are  :notworthy:
But as you say there's no bad advertisement, especially when it's about rejoicing about things that don't exist yet, when so many people get criticized for existing stuff instead  :hug:
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: Eliane2 on January 16, 2021, 11:27:58 AM
I hope China is in.
Title: Re: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title
Post by: MengJiao on January 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
I hope China is in.

  I'd like to see a Chinese JTS game myself.  Maybe a squad-level Boxer thing with magic fist attacks or something.